From Tolerance to Truth | Wisdom Dialogues @ Lake Whatcom, WA | January 11, 2026

What if “being loving” has nothing to do with endurance—and everything to do with clarity? We dig into the sneaky ways tolerance masquerades as compassion, how that keeps cycles of disrespect alive, and why admitting “I had an experience of cruelty” is the key that unlocks genuine forgiveness. This isn’t about blame or shame. It’s about seeing the belief beneath the pattern—often the idea that love must be proven through sacrifice—and letting it dissolve.

We share raw, human stories from marriage, friendship, family, and work, including how the empath–narcissist loop shows up far beyond romance. You’ll hear how grief, when allowed without justification, becomes a clean wave that clears fantasy and restores lightness. We explore Course in Miracles principles in a grounded way: “What I thought happened never happened” as protection for the mind, not a bypass. From there, we look at the “unwatched mind,” the habits that recreate the same dynamic with different faces, and how to collapse a pattern so it doesn’t require perpetual forgiveness.

Expect practical shifts: recognizing calls for love versus tolerating harm, setting boundaries that reduce guilt for everyone, and dropping the ego’s equation of love with endurance. We question media-fueled sides and the conditioning that keeps us divided, returning instead to presence, trust, and the relief of not controlling outcomes. When we stop performing worthiness and start honoring the signals in our body, relationships change form naturally—sometimes deepening, sometimes ending—always moving toward more honesty and ease.

If this resonates, follow along for ACIM deep dives, fresh writings, and bonus audios. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs stronger boundaries, and leave a review with one insight you’re taking into your relationships.

Chapters

• 0:00 Quiet Solitude And Pattern Seeing
• 3:35 Grief Without Justification
• 7:43 Disrespect As A Relational Dynamic
• 12:20 Grieving, Release, And Lightness
• 16:44 Endurance, Worth, And Hidden Beliefs
• 22:30 Narcissist–Empath Pattern Across Contexts
• 28:56 Calls For Love Versus Tolerance
• 35:05 Marriage, Boundaries, And Form Changes
• 41:48 Forgiveness Stories And Family Healing
• 48:56 Power, Fear, And The Unwatched Mind
• 55:24 Media Sides, Division, And Conditioning
• 1:01:40 Trust, Support, And Symbolism
• 1:07:20 Peace, Play, And Everyday Miracles
• 1:13:15 Circular Forgiveness And Pattern Collapse
• 1:20:30 Boundaries At Home And Work
• 1:26:56 Admission Of Cruelty Experience To See Through
• 1:33:10 Readiness, Pain Threshold, And Deep Dives
• 1:39:25 Community Mirrors And No Sides
• 1:44:50 Body Control Myths And True Signals
• 1:49:10 Closing Gratitude And Upcoming Deep Dive

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 0:05

Aloha, and welcome to Wisdom Dialogues with Hope Johnson coming to you from Lake Watcombe, Washington. Woo! Or I'm just loving it. I can't even express how much uh gratitude there is here for uh this experience where I get to spend a lot of time alone. Oh my goodness, that is just wonderful and deep and you know, a lot of nothing. That's what I love. There's like uh the deep moments where a lot of a lot is revealed, a lot of patterns are revealed, but then a lot of it is just nothing, just quiet. And what I notice within myself is each time a pattern is is observed and and released, there's more of a lightness. It's amazing, and more of a nothingness. That's what I notice. When it's really seen, there's just a present love for everything. When it's really seen that all of this is just patterned, and whenever we feel like any sense of loss or fear or unjustly treated or uh enduring cruel treatment, that was something that came out for me recently. I'll get to talking about that, enduring cruel treatment. You notice, oh my goodness, it's all just patterns. And everything that I perceived that was harm to be harming me was something that I was tolerating. I was playing into that, and you know, it's one thing to recognize this. Oh, yeah, of course, that's how it all is, and then you get hooked, and that is also part of it. You know, you get hooked so you can see, you can see more. Oh, this is how uh oh, this is how this I play in this energy. Okay, and you wait and and in silence, it's revealed to you what you secretly believe that you don't need to keep anymore. It's kind of like what Jesus is talking about, uh, how we disown our illusions. We would not keep them anymore. You know, it's like when someone gets the sense that they were unfairly treated, that's a huge opportunity or treated with cruelty or anything like that. The thing is, what's important to see, and which took me a little bit of time, some months to see, uh, is that there was an experience of whatever it is that it was. In my case, let's say one of the patterns was cruelty. Okay, none of it really happened. That's the reason why it's okay to look. You know, it's like don't be afraid of looking. Okay, like this is this matters. I got an experience where I was treated with cruelty and I tolerated it. Okay, interesting. Take a deep breath right there. Oh, what can this be besides helpful? It must be helpful, otherwise, I wouldn't have had the experience in the first place. It must be helpful, right? So what came forth was a sense of grief. And when the grief came forth, it just I knew it didn't have any justification. That's the thing about experiencing grief while knowing there's no real justification for that grief, that changes the whole thing, right? What's being used as justification for that feeling, that grieving feeling, is just fantasy. So when that's seen through, the fantasy is seen as fantasy, oh, that doesn't even really mean anything. And if I'm evaluated and found to be not enough, not good enough, then I the only way for me to prove I'm good enough is through endurance. And I'll get to what I I'll get to what I mean by endurance. Okay that's where you get a sense like this is not reflecting the love that I am. This is reflecting something else. Welcome. This is reflecting something else. You can say four of those, and there's unwillingness to see that because it seems like the person needs you. In my case, there was a sense like it seemed like the person needed me. The statements would be explicitly, explicitly like that. In fact, so what I noticed and what I went through was a defensive layer that didn't want me seeing that there was disrespect in the dynamic, it's never really coming from one person to another person because we cannot extend disrespect. We can only be extending love. That's the only thing we can extend. Okay. So when we get a perception like a person is disrespecting us, one way to look at it is the dynamic is reflecting disrespect. The dynamic of our relating is reflecting disrespect. That takes all the personhood out of it. It's not personal now, right? But see, this is important to see that the dynamic is reflecting disrespect, so we don't continually play into the same patterns. See, this is how people with a spiritual mind and they are aware that there isn't anything here, there's only one of us, will nevertheless repeat the same same uh painful patterns, and that's refusal to look at how we're generating these patterns, basically recreating the same patterns with different bodies over and over again, right? Uh so once I once I recognize, oh my goodness, like for many months I was stopping at that fearful barrier that didn't want me to see that what I was experiencing was disrespect in relationship. And then the grief could be released, and the grieving process was great. It was like three separate uh three separate outbursts, you could say, in the in a in a three-day period where it was about a half minute to a minute, you know, not like a bunch of suffering going on here, you know. And in fact, the grieving itself, when you're willing to allow it, is not suffering at all. Suffering is a meaning we put onto the feeling, but there's no feeling that's too much for us. Yeah. I see you have a book today. Is this a course in miracles? Nice. Okay. So a couple things about that. A course in miracles, uh, deep dives happen on Wednesdays. So this is a regular wisdom talk. I'm not sure you've been to one of those before. Um, and then and then we're on a different uh a different version of the book. So it's gonna be like pretty different. Yeah, we're on uh the one that came out in 2021. You have that one? Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay. Awesome. Thank you. All right, yeah. So it's amazing. I, you know, I just want to testify to you guys what a relief it is. It's like a corner has been turned in in my mind. There was a sense like uh, there was a there was a body sense as if I still wanted to be with this person. And then there was a sense like, fuck no, I don't want to be with that person. I don't want to endure that kind of stuff anymore, right? And then once the grieving was allowed to occur, there's no sense like I want to be with that person or don't want to be with that person, neither of them. You know, it's just a sense of love, it's like perfect love and respect to respect for the one playing in the dynamic that reflected disrespect. You know, because you could see that's how the the compassion flows through what you're able to see, right? You can you can see that these are patterns being playing out, played out. And you know, if I wasn't hooked emotionally because of an underlying belief that was running patterns in my mind that I didn't see at the time, at that moment when a disrespect was uh reflected in the relationship, it would have been recognized as a call for love, right? And not trying to instead, what happened was tolerance. See, it's like it the tolerance is like it's it's as if it's a show of love. If I were, it's work to tolerate anything in a relationship, it's actually work. So it's like if I work harder to do this, this is how I prove that I'm loving, that I'm worthy, that I'm valuable. And you know, when I look across the board at these relationships, you know, people are telling me about these relationships that come out the same kind of way. That's what's going on. And it's like when we come into our power and recognize oh, that really isn't even relevant, it's actually a call for love. That isn't even uh any show of disrespect must be a call for love. Well, from my mind, the way I met that call for love was with a subtle ego twist. It was as if love is endurance, like I said, enduring these things. Actually, it serves ourselves and them when there's not tolerant tolerating the disrespect, right? It helps everyone. Uh, but there's there's subtle fears and patterns that have us acting and playing things out that we wouldn't normally play out but for that hidden secret belief. And that's why it's perfect that we do play it out. That's what I noticed too, how perfect it is. Because I let myself go kind of deep, you know. I let myself get pretty hooked, like feel like I'm I'm like really in love. Like this is my person, right? This is what young girls do, right?

SPEAKER_01: 13:32

Or old older people too.

SPEAKER_04: 13:34

Older people too, okay. Well, yeah, well, this is this is that this is after uh uh 30 years of being with my spouse who you know there was disrespect that arose after you're 20. Okay, it just didn't look like this, look different. It was, you know, it was it, it just was a different flavor. So yeah, part of it was like when my husband was watching this stuff, he was going, What the heck is going on? Why are you putting up with this guy? Why are you putting up with this stuff? And I'm like, hmm. And I look at him, I'm like, hmm, I've kind of been training myself to put up with disrespect for the past 10 years with you. Right? And then and then you know what you know what occurred is with him, I just stopped tolerating it. And when I stopped tolerating it, it was like I felt a more of a kinship with him, and then the relationship completely changed form, right? The same thing occurred, only it was on a much uh shorter timeline.

SPEAKER_02: 14:53

Instead of 10 years of disrespect, it was about 10 months, maybe one of your examples is a great example of why it's actually really unkind to let somebody else mistreat you. It's unkind to them.

SPEAKER_04: 15:07

It's unkind to them to let someone else mistreat you. Thank you for putting it that way. I totally love it.

SPEAKER_02: 15:14

Yes. If I were to be uh mistreatment of somebody, it's because of my projection of something on you. And uh and then there's an attack there. So that's a projection of my own guilt. Uh-huh. So now I'm just accumulating more guilt. That's right. Um so so if you put up with it, I'm actually building up more in the world. You're building up more conscious guilt.

SPEAKER_04: 15:34

That's right. That's right. And you know, it's like now I'm bringing all this stuff to light, too. It's like uh, you know, uh I noticed I noticed a difference. You know, one of them, the one I was with for 30 years, you know, he's like, keep going, you're doing awesome. I don't mind if you talk about the relationship with me because I'm not that guy. I'm not even that guy anymore. I'm a totally different in every moment. I'm different. I'm new, I'm new, I'm new, I'm new. And he's like, he he's he's like, yeah, I I love it because it shows the patterns and how you process, how you how you recognize what it is, actually undo the pattern, which is the goal here, to actually undo these patterns. And then, you know, uh allowing that to go on. I told I told my husband, you know what, I wouldn't put up with that shit that I put up with, you know, like eight years ago. I wouldn't put up with that shit right now. You know, he's like, I'm so glad. I'm so happy to hear that you wouldn't put up with that. You know, oh, it's a huge relief. It was a huge relief to him when I when I walked out, when I ended the that uh form of our relationship. Our relationship didn't end by any means. Uh that form of the relationship, uh, being married, being uh intimate partners, all that kind of stuff, that changed. Um, but the relationship is uh definitely deep and lovely, and he's come around so far uh to be so aware and awake and willing. And you know, this is the thing. If we join together instead of because you know, this this thing and yeah, and you know what played out with me and my friend, it looks an a lot like what people are talking about is the narcissist empath dynamic, right? And and it's like people are afraid of this thing, they're afraid of looking at it, they're afraid of recognizing it. Look, it's not just going on in romantic situations, it's going on parent and child, sibling, bosses, all kinds of different things like that. And burying your head and trying to look away from it because it's all one is not gonna work to undo it. That's not really what's gonna work to undo it. It's actually recognizing the patterns, recognizing, recognizing also that the patterns are impersonal, no one's doing it, and with willingness to see the patterns together. That's what I notice. I'm doing, I still call him my husband. I haven't gotten a divorce. He's actually, yeah, he's actually coming out here. He'll be here in like, what is a day? The 11th, he'll be here in three days. Yeah, he'll be here in three days. Uh coming with our 17-year-old son. So he'll be in if you come back. Uh, he'll be here. What's his name? Tony. Tony. Yeah, I'll be here till the 22nd, and then I'm gonna take two weeks off. I'll be back on the 5th. Yeah, just so you guys know in case you're cruising around. But I'm normally here every week, uh, Sunday three to five, Wednesday three to five. Yeah. So I notice it, uh, I notice it a lot. You know, I've been I've been uh studying a Course in Miracles since 2014 and pretty intently as well. And recently I just got a hold of the complete annotated edition where there's chapter two is completely new. And so much about chapter two, and there's uh there's definitely no coincidences here, you know. Whatever I'm looking for is coming up. So much of chapter two is about watching the unwatched mind, right? And we've seen some cameos where Jesus was talking with Helen and Bill about how they started a chain of miscreation, and that's really what's going on here. Uh, you know, there will be a moment where we take Something to be like, oh my goodness, uh, am I responsible for their reaction to me right now? And then try to, you know, make that better. That's one of the habits of the empath personality, right? It's like, and they see that, maybe not consciously, but the mind is freaking powerful and the ego is cunning. They see that, they see that empathy, they see that willingness uh and that caring, uh, and and notice your hooks and notice what gets you to do things. And and you know, I'm saying there's no one at fault here. Uh it's it's possible. Uh, some of the people could be like reading books on how to do this. It's it looks like it's so crafty and so good the way it's laid out. Uh, but for the most part, it's probably just the ego just doing the crafty thing that it does without anyone's awareness. You know, I a lot of the times the people are uh the people are shocked who are uh playing the narcissist, they're like, what the fuck? I didn't even know it was going on. I was just trying to have a good time. Right? Best way I knew how to do it, to put you down. Right? And and you seem to still keep on coming back and being intimate with me when I put you down, so it seemed like permission. That was consent. You just kept on going on like nothing. Right? You didn't even take a break from me or anything, and it's kind of like this. Hey, I noticed disrespect in the field when I perceived this. That didn't feel good. That's all. And you might have a conversation about it. Oh, what didn't feel good about it? Oh, it brought up this, or it brought up this, you know, and see the thing is recognizing too, the two people do not need to stay together, whether that's romantic relationship, job, relating as parent and child, do not need one another like that. We need one another for seeing through the illusion, but we don't need it in a in a controlling way. We're all being orchestrated to be in each other's field at the exact right time and for the perfect amount of time, and whatever it is we seem to be playing out, that's exactly perfect for what we need to see through the illusions. And what Jesus talks about with watching the unwatched mind is to see how you're playing into the illusions, noticing this is how we shine light on these patterns so we don't play into them again, and it's and it's in a way of being helpful to the other person. That's the way you're thinking of it. You're not thinking of it in a way of uh you want to put them in their place as soon as they start acting like that way of looking at it, right? But you actually want to be helpful, right? Truly helpful, and you know, you know, you know, the thing for me too is the sex was awesome, and I saw this. I was like, I'm not passing this up, it's so funny because it's such uh it's it's such a good example of like seeking in the world, right? Like how this person is like obviously disrespecting you, but he wants to keep being intimate with you, and you're like, okay, right, and and and and you know, it's like toward the end of it, I was like, uh the last the last two months, I was just kind of like, there is absolutely no hope for this being any kind of a deep relationship. This guy just wants to have some sex, let's do it. Right, no regrets at all. That was fun. So it wasn't till later, though, where the grief was allowed to come up, you know, grieving over the ego story of what could have been the sweet fantasy, the spiritual union. Right. So uh so when the when the grieving was allowed, and oh all the different things that were trying to hold it up, like how you know, scarcity is one of them. Like, how will I meet someone else who's that compatible with me and also uh like ready in that sense? I'd say you know, that's one of them. Oh my goodness, you know, it's like, and so all as all these uh all these thoughts that don't mean anything are kind of like clicking past on ticker tape almost, it's like seen that this feeling of grief, while it is present, it's meaningful because it's pointing to something, right? It's not something to push away, right? For for me, uh I seem to have this personality, which I know is completely made of thoughts and meaningless. Um, I seem to have this personality that I'm expected to be really strong, and in that, not be experiencing any grief, you know. So for myself, when those uh brief moments of grief passing by, there's uh what I notice is a voice, even audible coming from my own mouth, apparently. It's okay, it's okay, it's okay, and it is, it's it's revealing something every single time if we let it, if we believe those thoughts, though. And see, here's the thing: the thoughts were being believed in secret until they weren't, until they were exposed, right? And I had to allow myself to see that I had an experience of being treated with cruelty to see how I continued to put myself in the situation, and it wasn't helpful, and normally I would be helpful, but there was sex involved. It's not the sex though, it's the habit of running toward illusions, that was just the hook, right? It's as if there isn't any sex even we're projecting all the feelings that we seem to have, so that's just the hook to kind of like justify doing the habit. Do I have any regrets about it? No, not at all. No, for one thing, none of this stuff really happens. Why do I go through it? Why do I go through it? Experience, experience, fuck yeah. You know, I tell I I tell the dude, man, you have been awesome. I'm really happy with the way everything played out, rolled out. This is really huge for me to be able to see how tolerating disrespect is not actually caring for someone, you know. And it's like if someone said that to me, I was, oh yeah, of course that's true. But it's actually in seeing how you can be played into them like that, where you actually get to undoing them, and that's not just undoing them for myself, it's undoing them in the mind, which everyone actually is myself, right? It's not necessary for them to read anything that I write, it's not necessary for them to hear any of my talks because the mind is shared. So when one mind sees and feels uh and and and feels what it's like to be in alignment with the truth, feels through all the grief. You when you feel through more grief, you feel more in alignment with the truth. That's how it works. So letting it come up, having the experience, letting it come up. You know, if I would have avoided having the experience, then this kind of stuff would have been would have remained buried. Okay. My husband is not wired for having that kind of uh disrespectful dynamic with anyone. He's just not wired like that. So it's like you can see how things are orchestrated. Okay, I need that dynamic, so things start to move in a certain way. And I'm I'm totally happy to do it. I think it's really playful too, uh, how the spirit does it, you know. It's like how it how it's orchestrated for me in a way that it's like really fun, it's really sweet. It's kind of easy to see, you know, once I want to see it.

SPEAKER_02: 30:31

It's kind of fun being human and honoring our human side.

SPEAKER_04: 30:35

He said it's kind of fun being human and honoring our human side. So holding it lightly and holding it lightly, yes. And here's here's the thing: here's the little subtlety about that that just kind of uh shifts it a little bit for me. Uh, yes, it's fun pretending to be human, right? And noticing that the reason that we're pretending to be human at all is so that we could see that we're wholly divine. Like that's the whole reason for pretending.

SPEAKER_02: 31:10

It's kind of like bringing some awareness to the fact that I'm having a human experience, that that's not all there is.

SPEAKER_04: 31:15

That's not all there is, right? I'm having a human experience. Thank you. Yeah. So in exposing the patterns, uh, it's not meant to make anyone wrong or it fault or diminish them or anything like that. These patterns uh that get played are diminishment, they are diminishment. So it's like it may hurt to recognize a pattern that you've played, and it only hurts because you believe that that has some kind of meaning. When you see that it doesn't really have any meaning, but it has power, you're ready to disown it. So it doesn't have to keep on taking your power towards something that is an unhappy dynamic. Let's say that it's an unhappy dynamic. It's like, what would I give up of myself to get this particular thing that you like? In my case, sex. I've said it for many months. I'm such a perv, and maybe many years. It's so funny because, of course, I get I get hooked. Oh, you guys, you're gonna trip out on this, okay? This is this came to my awareness awareness recently, okay. This dynamic that I played out with this person that seemed like it was uh an unhappy. There's a lot of happiness involved too. There was just this one pattern that was kind of like that empath, uh, empath narcissist pattern. It's not the whole relationship, though. It's never like that. These are patterns, you know, in a relationship. There's a shitload of patterns, right? So my husband was witnessing, and it looked to him like I was being abused, basically.

SPEAKER_02: 33:26

By him or someone else?

SPEAKER_04: 33:28

By the other dude. Right? Okay. So uh so he's getting a sense like I want to beat that guy's ass. I just need to get away from them because hope's pet playing that out. She's not asking for any help. She's she's consenting to this. Okay, so he steps uh he steps away. Well, here's an interesting thing. Uh, my husband, when when he was when he first met me way back and found out that I had a molestation experience with my stepdad, beat that guy's ass. Okay, these two share the same birthday. No, and the other dude. Oh, the other dude.

unknown: 34:13

These two.

SPEAKER_04: 34:16

I know there. That's that's that just shows you it's orchestrated, it's just only orchestrated. It's a it's a game, it's a show, right? It's like uh it's like yeah, it's so funny. And I didn't know that because uh, you know, I had a forgiveness opportunity that I totally took advantage of with my stepdad, you know, and and and totally just reflected to him that, you know, you have nothing to be sorry for, nothing really happened. Um, it was just fear arising, right? Um, and then and I didn't remember his birthday because I didn't have a communication with him over like 27 years, you know, I just didn't even remember his birthday. So then when my sister asked me just a few months ago, what's his birthday? And I said it, she's like, What in the world? I'm like, oh, that is hilarious. So I told my husband, he's my husband's like, I'm sure I am making all of this up for some reason. I'm like, yeah, it's obvious it's a forgiveness opportunity. You never got a chance to extend the forgiveness to my stepdad who just beat his ass and never talked to him again. So here he is coming back around. And and you know, it it's it's beautiful, just touches my heart because my husband is so much like, oh yeah, I see. I see what's needed here. You know, he's not trying to uh he, you know, he's not trying to hate on the person who seems to be abusing me, which is the pattern, right? That's a pattern that's playing out. Not trying to hate on the person who seems to be abusing me. It's like, hey, uh, hope actually calls these things in. You know, it's like it's like hope actually is playing with these things, she's actually playful with these things. She no one needs to have their ass beat about it. Similar experience occurred when I was with my friend, uh, the other guy, the one I was talking about. And I was in India with him. We were in separate rooms, you know. We were not uh in that way where we were that close. We were just friends. Um and the some manager or someone at a hotel at a hotel where I was staying totally like grabbed me behind a closed locked door and was trying to get with me and stuff. And uh and and he just took it so big, you know, and he came running up to the room. I didn't think it was that big of a deal. I just go, what are you doing? Get your hands off my ass right now. You know, I don't think it was really a big deal. And he's like, shh, shh, and he's like getting into my neck and grabbing me more. And I was like, and I was like, get off me, man. And he's like, you gotta be quiet. And I go, then you gotta get off me. And so then he got off me. And then he and then and then he's like, Oh my goodness, I'm sorry. Like he he felt like he got taken by an energy. That's because I'm calling it in. Like he was like, whoa, like that. So my friend, I was like, I I called him up to let him know I'm on it, or I texted him or something, let him know I'm on a different floor now. It's like, oh, you got a major room upgrade, and I was like, Yeah, just came with a little molestation, that's all. And he came up there so fast, and he just wanted to be mad at that dude. I was like, Hey, you know, you gotta know I call these things in. And remember, it didn't really happen. Remember, this guy is not at fault. I could see that right away. And when you're recognizing that you do, you call everything in. I mean, I I'm saying, like, even when you get the sense someone's trying to rape you, which I definitely could have got the sense with that dude. When you're recognizing that you're calling it in, it's different. Right. And and you know, for myself, I'm like really uh I'm like really surrendered to I'm not afraid of him raping me. I mean, the thought that crosses my mind, worst case scenario, I'm gonna have a good ass time.

unknown: 39:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 39:03

That would be a stretch for a lot of people. No, anybody else is I don't know anyone.

unknown: 39:14

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 39:16

Yeah. Well, you know, uh, that's the thought that occurs to me. I'm just uh I just have to say, uh, you know, I appreciate that. I appreciate that thought. It's because I'm just not afraid of anything. You know, it's like it can go uh it can go whatever way, and I could I could speak my truth. I could tell them I want them to get off of me. Apparently that's what I wanted. One thought crossed my mind. Uh I I show up back at home. Sorry, honey, I got raped. Wasn't cheating. Just like just comedy thoughts occur to me during these moments, you know. Uh so I find it really fun. So we can see, we uh we can see. So we can see we are divine. Yes. Yes, maybe Kai. Yes. No real power. Force maybe. Okay. So uh Cora, I think you may have been talking about um where I said they're powerful. And you know that that comes uh that comes from studying, of course, in Miracles chapter two about how our unwatched thoughts still have total power to make manifestations in the dream, uh, even if we're not watching them. Just because we're not watching them doesn't mean they're undone. And that's the thing about spiritual bypassing, and especially with the Course in Miracles. I'm not saying again, it's a bad thing. Uh it's actually it's progress. Let's say it's actually progress along the path, because what I notice is first people are just like, ah, thank goodness that nothing is here. Thank goodness that none of this is true, right? And then you start seeing how you're repeating things over and over again, and then it's like none of this stuff is true, but gosh, this sucks. You know, uh, so that's why Jesus is talking about actually using the experience so you cooperate, cooperate with him. He's always cooperating with you, he's always in cooperation with you to help you see through, to help you recognize how you're uh self-abandoning, self-diminishing, right? Where you're self-conscious, and all these things are being released from fear, really. And part of what he's saying in chapter two is that there's uh celestial speed up right now, which is why there's so much of this information coming out, including, of course, in miracles, and uh, and and if we're willing, uh what's needed to happen here for this celestial feet speed up to meet its uh its intended goal is for us to be released from fear much faster than we would under normal circumstances. And to be released from fear takes not only relaxing into the awareness of what and who we are, it's also an awareness of the patterns that we do play day to day because of automatically taking attack beliefs as if they're reality. When they start to play out in the particulars of our lives, that's what lets us see them. That's why there's never anything wrong with the particulars of our lives back in the the era when Tony did physically assault the stepdad.

SPEAKER_03: 43:20

Were you able to give a sense you're like, I'm going to use this scenario to see through fear?

SPEAKER_04: 43:29

Or like oh no, uh back then she was asking me about when Tony she said physically assault, uh beat the dude's ass, apparently. Um, did I say I was gonna use this for forgiveness? No, I wasn't that aware at that time. At the time, I was maybe 22 years old, apparently. Um, the first sense that I got was actually a sense of relief, and that was also uh, you know, something that was kind of uh kind of like a prelude to me seeing because before that I was so uh there was a sense of of being seen as someone who who was uh an adulteress or something like that, uh like a temptress or something like that. Um, and he was like there was a relief because he was actually like, she deserves to be protected, you know, and I never got that sense, like in my family life, that I was I I ever deserved to be protected as a child. You know, I was kind of like just giving. I would just like an uncle would come over to visit and he'd be sleeping with me in the bed. And I'm like seven, you know, it's like kind of like here, right? Welcome to our house. Here's a seven-year-old in bed with you, right? So that was the first sense of relief. It was just a sense of relief that oh my gosh, someone finally values me enough to be protective of me enough to go beat that guy's ass. That was the very first thing I felt, and you can see how that's also it's it's on the way to understanding. I can't get there being all like a beat-down little kid like that, right? So it's like here comes the knight in shining armor. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the way everything plays out, right? So that was the first sense. I was like, wow, I feel really loved, actually, right? And and for him, like from his perspective, uh that came from a sense of protection, a sense of protecting. And this is kind of like you know, his way of relating how it was up until that point, and probably uh many years, is that he uh looks out for and protects the underdog. He even did it in high school, you know, and anyone be bullying anyone, he just like beat their ass, you know. So it's like the universe sets those in motion too, right? For those for those kinds of things to occur. Um, after that, I got a sense of feeling like really bad for him, you know, because even as a kid, I would see something, I would recognize that he is in pain. I would see that as a kid. I would I lived with him, right? And he didn't have a job, so I was home with him all the time. So I got to know the person very, very well. So that was one thing I noticed. This person is not well, like they're not well within themselves, right? So there was a sense like, like, well, you know, that person really, even though it felt like it was protected for to for me, he really didn't deserve that, you know. No one deserves that, no matter what they seem to have done. You know, I had told Tony the stories about what I seem to have gone through, and some of those things seem to be like really mean and really bad, you know. Um, but when you can see that, well, anyone who ever hurts anyone is is going through it and having a hard time. That's why when he came up to me to apologize, I was just like, oh no, you don't have to hold anything about that. You know, that was all that was was just pain erupting. There's nothing there. And you know what the sweetest thing? This is my stepdad I'm talking about. Uh, he didn't he never saw Tony again before he passed away, but he said, Tell Tony I love him. Oh is that just the sweetest thing? It's like uh it's like forgiveness went completely like fully around. It just uh everyone, everyone saw it, everyone recognized there's no one uh doing anything to anyone. And you know, certainly when you look at someone, how do they get to the point where they want to fuck around with a little kid? Right? How do they get to that point in the first place? Uh, every single one of them, they've gone through trauma themselves. They were ignorant as to how to meet it. So that's why we want to meet the trauma that we've built up in our unconscious mind so that we don't play it out again. Right? You know, it's like it's like he he's the molester, and then it rolls back around, and I'm the molester. It's just like that, you know, and it seems to be when you're not in the molester role, it's easier to be forgiving, don't you think? It looks like that. Of course, you know, what what makes it easier or harder is only identification with an ego. So it's not saying that you can't, right? But it definitely helps when someone is extending forgiveness for the mind that even perceives themselves as a molester to be accepting the forgiveness for themselves, right? Because that's a choice everyone has to make. I mean, we can extend it. Will they accept it? I don't know. Right. And but my my stepdad, there's one thing I saw about him, he's kind of childlike. So when I was talking with him, he said, I don't know what you mean, but thank you. And the way his eyes lit up when he said thank you, it's like he got the meaning. He doesn't have to intellectually understand what I intellectually understand to be able to articulate it, right? But he's it's like I can see the reflection. Okay, he got what I mean. There's no problem here, there's nothing to make up for.

SPEAKER_03: 50:43

Well, is part of that dynamic, maybe because he was also on some level using you to attack himself. That's right. We're using one another, that's right.

SPEAKER_04: 50:55

Um, she's saying he could it be that he was using this is my stepdad now, using me to attack himself, right? Exactly. And when we tolerate abuse, as a kid, you know, it seems like you don't have that much of a choice, you don't really know that much, you don't really recognize you do have the power, but there's recognition issue, right? Because it's like you you you get taught to believe that you're this body and you're this name and all this stuff, and you don't recognize your power, right? Uh, but you start to see, oh, okay, I don't have to play into that kind of dynamic. And you know, the the one that I'm talking about that's more recent, it was very, very gentle. It was really sweet. It was really sweet and gentle. I mean, basically, all I'm dealing, I'm just dealing with uh a person that's not very mature, as in the way of looking at the world and just has a totally different way of looking at the world and doesn't know. They know not what they do, right? Um, but no kind of violence or anything like not even close. Uh just the just really uh loving, joyful experiences, um, and you know, emotional depth with someone who's not at that place to be with emotional depth at that point.

SPEAKER_03: 52:20

Like that look that some eye um could that be like a recognition to like all of a sudden he had an awakened moment where he realized he was talking to himself through you, and just the you know, that sense of like I'm I can forgive myself, and but it's coming through someone else's words and voice.

SPEAKER_04: 52:48

Yeah, I well, I got the sense for one that uh the the experience of having his ass beat felt like atonement for him. It's not atonement, but it's okay. It gave him a permission slip, right?

SPEAKER_02: 53:09

We hold guilt in our mind, it goes with the sense of undeserve punishment. They go together. Yes, and then we feel then we project the guilt and we fear it coming back at us, and so we fear it, but we kind of think we deserve it.

SPEAKER_04: 53:21

Yes, and it drives us to do things that seem to be guilty things as well. So so what he's saying is that when we have a guilty consciousness, we're automatically fearing punishment, we're expecting punishment and fearing punishment. So then that's causing us to perceive that we need it and actually be relieved when we get it. It's like, oh, thank goodness I needed that, right? Uh, but it wasn't until in until he talked to me uh where he was like, Oh, there's nothing. I could tell he just saw that there was no guilt to be hanging on to. And with my mom, too. You know, my my mom would um express to me that she's really sorry that she didn't do something, that she didn't, you know, all this stuff. And uh and I go, mom, it played out perfectly. It played out exactly the way things needed to be played out, you know, and and it's funny about this. My mom saying something like that to me because before I recognized that these are just patterns and nothing really happened and it doesn't help hold that kind of weight, I thought I wanted my mom to recognize her part and feel bad about it. Then once I see what's going on, all of a sudden my mom is recognizing her part, right? And feeling bad about it. And what I'm showing her is there's nothing to feel bad about. And look at how you're playing that part again. Just recently, just recently, it's like there's uh uh there's my niece staying at my mom's place because my sister's uh boyfriend was trying to get with her, right? So my mom is going, uh, my my mom is telling me about this, and uh, and she and I go, I go, oh my goodness. I go, did you guys like say anything about it or anything? No, your sister would be devastated. We just keep her away. We just keep her away from them.

SPEAKER_01: 55:46

And I go, the mother of this child doesn't nobody tells her. Am I following this something?

SPEAKER_04: 55:52

It's my it's my sister, yeah. Yeah, no, you're that's right. Your sister would be devastated, and so there's this orchestration where my my mom is like, my sister is saying, My sister needs to stay with this dude because my sister would be more of a burden than her daughter on my mom.

SPEAKER_01: 56:16

So if the sister didn't have the dude, then she would be with mom.

SPEAKER_04: 56:20

Right, yeah, and she it's very complicated, yeah. And and she's when she said that when she said, No, your sister would be devastated. I go, you realize this is the exact same kind of thing you said to me when I wanted to express this is the exact same thing. It's like you don't see through the patterns by pretending they didn't happen. No one really needs to have their ass beat, but the patterns need to be bought brought to the surface, especially there's a pattern where you have like someone being harmed, a kid being harmed, right? It's it's yes, they're not really kids. Yes, they're not really being harmed. And in this dream, we have responsibility to protect the innocents. That's uh one of the subtitles to my book, too. Uh I wrote a book called uh Unschooling for Parents, because I went through a lots of awakening with my kids as a parent. Um, Unschooling for Parents, A Mystic's Guide to Awakening with Children. Another subtitle, Protecting Innocence, right? And and and you know, the the way I was looking at it, I didn't have any kind of uh incident where I had any kind of issue with anyone coming around molesting my kids at all. That did not even arise at all. Uh, but it would be the same kind of thing, it'd be like, fuck no, that's not happening. No, our kids do not go sleep in a bed with adults, for one thing. Right. So so there was that. But the protecting innocence is really protecting the child's innocent spirit, right? That they don't have to, uh, they don't they don't have to uh fend for themselves in the world. Like they have people looking out for them, you know. It's like, and then at the same time, they got all this freedom. That was the thing with my kids. They weren't uh tried to, we weren't trying really hard to keep them from being molested. Don't let them get molested like I was, kind of vibes, you know, like having reins on them or anything. Um, they had all kinds of freedom. We trusted that they would have whatever experiences they needed to have, and and to be there for them whenever they needed some safety or comfort or anything like that. Uh basic. And it just so happens apparently none of my kids needed to have that kind of experience, right? Where I've had I've seen people get really protective like that and actually end up having that experience too. So it could go either way. So it's like, you know, the ego likes to work on extremes, like with my parents, they're putting a kid in bed with an adult uh or someone else going, I gotta do everything at all costs, be looking out all the time. Where I'm gonna stop anything from happening. Oh, there's a middle way. That's just really easy. Just allowing people to have have the freedom and anything that arises, you'll use it for forgiveness. That's always, you know, the thing for me, too. It's like, I'm just gonna use it for forgiveness, whatever it is. So whatever it is can arise, right? When I was living with my husband for a while, and especially the last 10 years, I was hanging. Out with him, uh, I just knew that it whatever it was, it would be brought to forgiveness. So as it seemed like we were having some challenging situations come up, it wasn't like I needed to do anything about it. If the if the momentum wasn't there where I was just leaving, I didn't need to try to think about it or anything like that. I knew that anything the way it went, and I was just like kind of like, okay, okay, you want to do things like that with the business, with anything. Oh, okay. Uh, you want to do things like this way, this way, this way. They're all leading to the same way, right? Unless there's like some kind of uh less or greater joy being expressed on down one path or the other. But when I looked at it, they're all equal. They can all be expressed with with joy. Would you turn lights on for me? I skipped that part. I forgot it turns dark in here while I'm talking. Yeah, there's one right there, and then put the dimmer all the way up.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:10

Yeah, yeah, that's that's uh just right next to it is that that might be a little bit of light.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:19

Let the light in.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:20

Oh, that's what I'm gonna oh because it's not plugged in.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:31

Yeah, if that's enough light for you guys, that's plenty of light for me, too. Because Zoom just lights me up on the screen, anyways. Yeah, that's cool. All right, yay. It's just a dimmer, it's a little thing that slides right next to the switch. It's a little thing. All right, we have lights. Yay! All right, we're in the middle of wisdom dialogue. This is the second hour. Yeah, thank you so much for joining everyone.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:04

Woohoo! The true joy coming from serving our function. Serving our function, yes, forgiveness, yes, gonna always be way more satisfying than any kind of vengeance.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:28

Definitely, it's definitely she said she said forgiveness, which is our function, is gonna be way more satisfying than any vengeance. Yes, always, yeah. And you know what's you know what's great? It's like vengeful thoughts can arise without you identifying with them, but let them arise. Let them. It doesn't mean they have to be played out. What happens is they get played out when you force them to go unconscious, right? So let the vengeful vengeful thoughts be seen. Fuck that guy, or whatever it is, you know, let it come out. Uh, sometimes I facetiously play it out for people, right? Well, but like they'll they'll uh feel the need to express to me how fucked up someone is or some situation or something like that. And I'll be just like, yeah, fuck that guy. You know, just like kind of like help them bring it out. You know, it's like it's like you see in uh we're all we're all mirror reflecting ourselves, you know. We're all mirror reflecting each other. Uh it doesn't really do someone a big service when they're in a state of, oh, I'm angry about this or this or this or this. Well, you know, you're not really angry for the reason you think, which is true. I think you are, yeah, they're not really mad at me for the reason you think you are either.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:54

Well, behind every thought of vengeance is a belief in I'm a victim.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:58

Behind every thought of vengeance is a belief that I'm a victim. So that's something to recognize. So, you know, how are you gonna see the belief that you're a vic that you're a victim, though, unless you recognize a thought of vengeance as being meaningless, not as something used to condemn yourself for thinking the thought. You're not really capable of thinking a vengeful thought. You dream as if you are capable of it, and in those moments your mind is blank. It's not a bad thing. Okay, it's not in alignment with the goal, but it doesn't matter because the Holy Spirit can use any experience for healing, so you never went wrong. All right. Anywhere you could stop and and go, I'm using this for healing. And that's exactly what I was doing, even the whole time uh that I was I was hanging out and uh enjoying the lovely sex that was being offered me. Oh, it just cracks me up, but it's fun. Um, I was recognizing and noticing all of this for the Holy Spirit's purpose, no matter what it seems to be, even if it's something like that. Like people that might think, who knows what people are thinking. Oh, that's so shallow to just go for it for the sex. It doesn't matter, doesn't matter, it could be the shallowest thing, you could be in it for the heroine. Let's say the guy has heroin. You're like, you know what? I could put up with all the disrespect for the heroine. No problem, the Holy Spirit can still use that. See what I mean? It it's not, it's this is not meant to be used for self-evaluation. And when you see that it's not it, it's not self-evaluation, self-evaluation is totally meaningless. You can just say what you need to say, and you know, really allow the Holy Spirit to use your voice. That's really what it is. Allow the Holy Spirit to use your hands, your actions, your mannerisms, everything. Just allow it to be used. Notice when the mind is chasing illusions, and don't judge, just notice. This is how everything gets seen. You know, it's really in the seeing, the sight gets corrected. That's all. And you find yourself uh back in truth. And what truth seems like to me is just like this ultimate trust, sort of like being carried through life. There's nothing to do, there's no one to impress, there's nothing to uh achieve, there's nothing to learn. Anything that I feel like learning, it's I'm learning it because it's freaking fun for me. Like the espresso machine. I learned that. Learn how to use it. All right. I got a message here from Cora. I just think it's an important distinction that ego world dream has no power. No power except what we give it, though. Because we're meaning-making machines, it uses force to seem powerful. Yes, and that's that's it. There is power in truth, so yeah, let's say it's like this that power that the ego world dream seems to have is given it by us. Gave it. See, so when that's the truth, that any power that it seems to have right now, we've given it that power. Okay, that's everything that includes the government. Apparently, there was another PSY-op. I'm not sure what it was, I'm not sure what it involved, but I just noticed all of a sudden my Facebook wall has people saying things like, If you believe this, get off my Facebook. It's another side, it's a it's a name I don't recognize. They're talking about some certain person, and I don't know. What's that?

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:47

Well, let me keep my beliefs.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:48

Let me keep my beliefs, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, so uh so noticing the ego, it's it's the ego's world, right? It has no power, that's why it's clamoring for power. That's why uh there's news shows that tell you this or this happened, knowing knowing that your conditioning is gonna land you on one side of an issue or another, and then you guys can divide against each other. Because when you stay divided against each other, then you can't see the pattern. So if you find yourself on any side of anything that's on the news, that's how you know you've been hooked. There's no real side, there's no real side, there's only manufactured sides. It's a total show, okay? And you know, it's like it's like it's it doesn't matter if you're on uh what they call left, left, I think, is red and right is blue, sort of like a sports stream, the opposite, okay, opposite way, sort of like they're a couple of sports teams, it's just like that, you know. So it's like if you can't get riled up enough in sports, right? So you can like, oh yeah, rah, we're gonna get them. Then you can do it in politics, you can do it on uh uh some. It seems like it always comes down to these two ways of looking at things that are equally insane. Okay, there are two different ways of looking at the world equally insane. There's not any kind of this one's less insane, this one's it's all it is. It's a it's a trick, it's like a magic trick to get about 50% of the people on one side, 50% on the people of the people on the other side, so that they can be divided. Why? So you don't pull the curtain off of the show. The whole world is a show. And that when you're when you're following things on TV, media, shows, movies, it's all incorporated into that. It hits the nervous system a certain way, and it's meant why? Because it's the ego's world. That's what it's meant to do. When you see it again, it becomes useful to the Holy Spirit. When you see what the game is, you're not falling on a side, you're having compassion for everyone who seems to be on a side, right? Seeing with that, see seeing through their eyes and recognizing that it's just conditioned habit, it's not a reality, and that clears it's like it's like it opens the way for them to see as well that we're free. This is this is imprisonment. This is like prisoner broadcasting. So no one has to force you to be a prisoner, you're just automatically going to be a prisoner. You know what the prisoner does? They keep on, they keep the chains on them. This is a willing prisoner. Keep the chains on them, believing as if this world is really what people are telling you that it is. You start out as a kid, your parents are already conditioned, right? They've been watching TV too, right? They're already conditioned. They tell you, you're this body, you're this name, here's where you go to school, here's what you do, here's what you here's what you believe, here's what you here's how you act, and everything. And then we keep on doing that to ourselves. You know, it's like we just keep on listening. I mean, I saw it when I was probably like 21 or 20 or something like that. My parents had the TV on and the news was on, and they're saying something, and I go, Who are they talking to? It sounds like they're talking to stupid people. Are people really that stupid? Is this how it is? Am I just in a world of a bunch of stupid people that are watching this shit and believing it? That it means anything for their life. Right? There's just a certain vibe about it. I don't even know why. I was just like, I'm not believing anything any of that stuff. They tell everyone what to do, tell everyone what drugs to take and stuff. You guys better go and get that thing. Otherwise, you're gonna be not only endangering yourself, but endangering everyone else around you. It's great. Who believes that stuff? Apparently, most people believe that stuff. You know, it's like even even the economy. The economy's not real. There's a there's a sense uh like things are worse now. I get this, uh I get this feedback that things are worse now because uh young people can't afford to do what people used to do back in the 1950s. Their houses cost a year's salary rather than 30 years salary back then. You know, it's like all the evidence is here that you guys are fucked. All the evidence. Uh so uh why is there more evidence that everyone is screwed? Like there used to be the American dream, right? People used to, it used to be kind of like easily attainable, apparently. You didn't have to, you didn't have to have two people working, you just have one person work, you know, and you'd be able to attain all that stuff, apparently. And then apparently it got harder and harder and harder. Why'd it get harder? Uh why'd it really get harder? Consciousness is fucking awakening, that's why. So it's putting screws to you, so you're gonna be distracted. Look, you're sustained by the love of God. No one's ever sustained by an economy. Okay. You're uh you're you're seeing through your patterns, and you have everything you need to do that. The more you're willing to be in a forgiving frame of mind, a miraculous frame of mind, working miracles, the more you're gonna see how you're supported. It could come in different ways besides money. It doesn't have to be just money, right? Uh, but recognize this no matter what, let's say you have zero money, you're out on the street, you're in the rain, you're cold, you don't even have clothes, and maybe you're bleeding. Okay. Hey, you know, you're the that that was perfect or about because just goes immediately to what the ego would do. This is what the ego, at least we have this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it could always get worse, right? That's the ego's thing, though. This is what I saw when the lava was coming. Lava was just taking everything out over in Lower Pune in 2018. People are like, at least we still have this. Next thing you know, boom. At least we still have that. Here it comes. Yeah. So so all right. So you're so that example that I just gave, it sounds very bleak. It's probably not going to occur. Um, but it's just, you know, for an example, um, is is that in that moment when you seem to have nothing and everything is going is is not going your way, apparently, you are actually using so much energy. It takes more energy to make it look like you don't have what you need than to perceive the reality, which is you have what you need. Like, like you have to use a lot of concepts to uphold a present moment perception that you don't have what you need. It's work. See? So I found myself uh checking out YouTube, and there was this guy on YouTube, and he was a raw vegan, and he looked great. He's like the same age as me. I would say he looked like he was maybe about 30, rosy cheeks, everything. Um, and and uh and he was talking about uh being a raw vegan. I'm like, I know it's not his fucking diet. It's not that's not how it works. Uh different people do all these different diets. That's it, there's not any consistent thing that says if they do this, they look like this. They do this, they look like this. There's not any consistent thing like this. I've seen raw vegans that look like shit. Okay, I lived in Lower Pune, raw vegan fucking capital of the world, I think. I'm like, you're telling me about raw veganism through rotten teeth. You hear me? So, next thing you know, he says, here's the thing: you have to trust, you have to trust in the universe, you have to trust that you are taken care of, you have to trust that there's not uh anything that could go wrong. You always have exactly what you need to do what you're here to do. You have a mission, right? And I could see that he lives like that. That's the thing, that it doesn't matter what he eats, he could be on a diet of coffee and smoke, which is pretty much my diet. Right, it's not gonna make a fucking difference. It doesn't make a difference, it's the relaxation, right? And it's not like don't make it so that okay, I'm doing this so I can look younger, right? I'm doing this so I and and then I'm gonna be checking my body to make sure looking younger. It's all symbolic, it's symbolism, it's not saying this is what you do to get to this in the world. How you look is in the world, it doesn't matter. There is an actual goal that's not of this world that matters, that really matters to us. The symbolism is just that, hey, if you just relax and enjoy the ride, everything is being given you. You know, it's like still you can't relax and enjoy the ride while there's that's what'll pull you into looking at patterns. Because when there's patterns in the unconscious mind, which it's full of patterns right now, that's why we could perceive a world. That's why we could perceive an outer world. So it's full of patterns. When we're feeling any kind of not relaxed, less than relaxed, less than joyous, less than content, all it means is there's something unwatched. We want to watch it because that's the means to deeper relaxation, right? You can call what I'm saying relaxation, the peace of God. It's almost like a perfectly loving parent, right? Just resting in that. You don't have to try to find it or anything like that. It's just a matter of recognizing that you're getting this feeling because there's something to see. So then you're open to seeing. No, you don't need to get better, you don't really need to. Uh, if you are, I recommend doing a course in miracles, uh, just because it helps for seeing, you know, it really does. And uh in case you don't know, I've recorded all 365 lessons with complic uh complication, with a contemplation. And you can find those on my website, hopejohnson.org. Okay. I just finished the last one last month or something. I don't know. Oh, good. Yeah, they're fun. I I might do it again sometime too. I just had so much fun with it. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like each I I know each time I go over it, it's different.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:32

Yeah, listening to the recordings where it's like when you were like living at highs, and uh, you know, there's different people, different people contemplate with occasional opinions, so yeah, just anywhere that you find yourself if you the contemplation will be enriched.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:50

Yeah, record I love it, yeah. It's fun, yeah. Okay, let's see. Caitlin, my love, thank you for writing. Yes, those the lessons are the best thing in the universe. Yay! I'm so glad you like the lessons. Thank you. Yay! Did you get to do all of them already? Uh uh, some of my friends got to do all of them, and then they started them over again. Uh, over, in case you guys don't know, my friends who are in Hawaii, uh down in Kehenna, there is a ACIM class. I think it's once a week. Billy and KC are putting it on, and they have my contemplation for that day as part of the event that they do. So yeah. Oh, you started over, you got halfway, and then started over. Yeah, well, you know, however it however it appeals to you. I'm so glad. Yeah, cool. Yay. Yeah, so I recommend a course in miracles. Once you've done a course in miracles, then you know, it's like you really don't need to learn anything else because you're aware of what forgiveness is. And forgiveness is your function, and anything else that you need to know will come about through that, anyways. That's not saying you can't do a course in miracles some more. You could do it all you want. I mean, I just keep on going with it, and now I'm teaching it too, so I'm learning it much deeper, which has actually been very helpful for me. I'm super grateful for this. It seems like chapter two uh came along for me with the deep dives right when I needed to see, right when I was ready to see to come from uh this more of a spiritual bypassy way of being with a course in miracles to a more grounded way. And I'm not saying one is right or wrong, it's just a progression. That's just how it goes, and that's what I've seen a lot. It's like for years, people will stay in there's just nothing here. I'm not bothered, I'm undisturbed. It's true that nothing can bother you, but things seem to disturb your peace. Don't cover it up and just fly above in la la land because what's happening is you're just making that repeat again and you don't like it. What Jesus is saying is you don't have to keep what you don't like, even for dreaming. You don't have to keep what you don't like, not keep it buried so no one knows about it, and use some strong tolerance to not let it out, right? You want to actually see what's in the unconscious mind so that it can be resolved. And you know, what I was sharing about in the first hour, that it wasn't until I was willing to look at whoa, I had an experience of being treated with cruelty before I could actually feel like and uh feel the benefits of the miracle, let's say. Because constantly I'm going, the whole time I'm going, there's no way any of this came from outside of myself. So that's forgiveness already in itself, but I didn't feel the benefits of it because I didn't feel the kinship with the person who I was extending forgiveness to until I was willing to see that I had an experience of being treated with cruelty. And once I saw that, then everything lightened up because then it finally looked like, oh, it's just patterns. No one did anything to anyone, even though that's known conceptually, known and intellectually, it's not until it's lived through that it actually gets resolved like that. So then there's no villain and no victim, even though, like I'm saying, we know this viscerally, there didn't seem to be a sense of that sometimes. It wasn't all the time, just come back. I keep on coming back around. Knock, knock, knock. You feel like this. The feelings in the body sense aren't something to resist, they're actually signals. They're going knock, knock, you're believing something still that hasn't been seen yet. You're covering something up uh something up for me. You know, that seemed to be uh one of the worst things that I could do is be treated cruelly, you know, from the ego's perspective, that's like something that that is unforgivable as it is. What do you mean you let yourself get treated cruelly? How did you let yourself do that? Right? But when you look at even that, oh, because the Holy Spirit could use it. That's why that's exactly why I did it. See? So that see how that changes everything? There's never a reason for you to get hooked by the ego into believing something went wrong. There's never a reason for you to get hooked into believing that you did it wrong. Even though you know you could see, okay, if I'm not if I'm not uh hooked, if I'm not, if I'm not emotionally hooked and believing in things in secret, then I would uh recognize a call for help, right? That's not that that looking and taking responsibility for everything that occurs in your mind is not a way of projecting shame. It's not shameful that you didn't do that. It didn't even really happen. The whole thing didn't even really happen. You just would have had a way better time, and so would have the other person if you would have seen it like that. That's just how it is. And we are here for a good time, that is part of it, right? A good time is where we're really like extending love. That is the best time we can possibly have. So when there's disrespect in the dynamic, and we take on extending love for ourselves, this is one thing Jesus talks about uh making your own miracles, coming up with your own miracles, then it seems like loving is enduring something that's not helping you and it's not helping the other person, but it is helpful because of what it reveals.

SPEAKER_05: 1:30:18

See what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:20

It's kind of like uh it's when you recognize everything is helpful, you could see where you could have more fun. You could see where you don't have to abandon yourself. You could see where abandon not abandoning yourself actually helps everyone to the ego. The ego is saying abandon yourself to keep this dynamic. Oh, but certain aspects of it are so nice, certain aspects of the dynamic are so nice. What do I need to do? What do I need to give up? What do I need to sacrifice to keep the dynamic? That's the ego. So you don't really want to keep a dynamic. Someone asked me on one of my posts. I've been posting about this lately. I've been posting about it on Facebook. Um, you can find me there. Uh Hope Johnson, Hope Akea Johnson, maybe it's spelled A-C-H-A-I-A. Um, Awakening with Hope on Telegram and um Hope Johnson Wisdom on Substack. I've been posting about insights as they arise. And one of my friends asked, Do you have to leave? Can you stay and fix things? Or is leaving the only option? And you know, of course, that question is coming from the ego, you know, and the the truth is that it does not matter. Any outcome can any outcome can occur. You could stay, you could go, uh, you could seem to be working on it. Um that's not the point. The outcome is unimportant. It's actually unimportant who you're with. You're always gonna find yourself with the exact right person that's perfect for helping you undo the specific and universal patterns that seem to be connected to you. Right? They're all perfect for that. So knowing that it can't go wrong, then there's nothing to control. When there's nothing to control, we can be completely authentic. I've done that a lot um with my husband too. I've gone back and forth. There'd be certain things where um I just go, I'm not doing that anymore with you. I just tell him, I'm not doing that anymore with you. You know that thing where you tell me that I'm spending too much money, I'm not doing that with you anymore. That was true conversation. If that's gonna be a thing, I don't I'm not in. I'm not doing that. Right. So so there's there's certain things where I'll see, oh yeah, I just say what it is and don't worry about how the how it goes, about how the relationship goes or anything like that. Um, well, for years and years, uh my husband was playing out a part in the dynamic where he was withholding support from me from anything that I was doing that was inspiring for me. One of them giving these talks. I was giving these talks down in Hawaii for 11 years, and he never even came to one talk. Just like blatant disrespect and not support for what I'm doing. That one, I just go, I just shrugged my shoulders about that, and it said, hmm, okay. You know, there are certain times where I seem to bring it up, and there was just no meaning of the minds, no connecting on it or anything like that. It was just like, but I am supporting you. I'm doing all this and this and this and this and this, you know. So I'm sure that's gonna play out the way it needs to, you know. And at certain times I'd kind of like shake him and go, hey, where do you think this is leading? Where do you think this way of relating with me is leading? Where do you think this is going? You know, but there didn't seem to be like the the recognition. I'm like, okay, well, I'm not getting the guidance to leave at this moment, but I'll just see how it plays out. And knowing that it's gonna play out exactly perfect for me, and I'm gonna get all of the lessons that I need to get. However, that is revealed to me. So eventually, when it was time to go, and then it was just like obvious, the obvious next step or the next breath. It wasn't something like, okay, I gotta get up the whatever to go. It's like, I'm going, I'm going right now. Uh, there's no stopping it. Apparently, my husband tried for a long time. Uh change really fast, do whatever he could. Um, ultimately, he's like, Thank you for doing that. I was on a trajectory where I lost myself. And I go, Yeah, like what I saw was what it looked like is someone kind of like just crawling toward death. And that was not resonating with me anymore. And he's like, Yeah, I'm just so grateful that you shook me up like that. Because I wouldn't have seen, and and I'm like, wow, man, if I would have known, I would have done that 10 years earlier. But you know, it worked out perfectly, and even the perception that I got that he wasn't supporting me, you know, later on, you know, he later on I had a conversation with him, and I just said, I want to let you know that it's not true that you weren't supporting me, you were totally supporting me the whole time. You were so supporting me and seeing what I needed to see. And even you could even, you know, without him going on that path where he was in resistance to me for 10 years, uh, like we were built up the first 20 first where it didn't seem like there was this resistance, but it was the next 10 years. Um if it didn't, if it didn't just transpire exactly like that, I wouldn't have gotten the next lesson that was needed. You know, I wouldn't have gotten that interaction that I had with my friend. It would have never, you know, if we were tight like that. That was the one thing that he noticed. He's like, man, if I would have been paying attention to my wife, if I would have been with her, if I would have been having a good ass time with her, there would have never been that opening for that guy to come in, right? And I go, that's because that needed to occur. That's a particular pattern I couldn't get with you. I couldn't see what I couldn't see that one with you. You wouldn't treat me like that. Right, right. And and I don't want you to. I'm not saying that you should. Can you please be much more disrespectful so I could feel like I need you? It wouldn't even, it wouldn't even happen with him like that. If he started acting like that, that'd be like, fuck off, man. So even these relationships and these long-term relationships, you know, uh, I had uh I had that really romantic notion, you know, I'd get my feelings even hurt because you know, neither my husband, me or my husband was with another person in 30 years that we're together, right? And um I would even get my feelings hurt, like if someone thought otherwise about us, you know, it like like that's an accomplishment. It's an accomplishment. Neither one of us do the thing. We don't even like consider other bodies, it's not even interesting, it's never even been interesting to us. That's why it kind of like came up by surprise, dude. I was like, whoa, oh, I didn't even know I wanted that, but yes, it was like it just it was almost like it just had to sneak in there, yeah. Right, and then all of a sudden it was like there's no hunting, no hunting, no hunting. Then it is like it is like hunting, it's like, oh yeah. A joy to watch that play out, though. It really is.

SPEAKER_03: 1:39:34

Uh it's like trying to offer it up to you in different scenarios, maybe with like your miracle botanical employees.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39:45

Yeah, employees, employees, yes, disrespected.

SPEAKER_03: 1:39:49

I don't know. It was trying to shake you up, but yeah, no, I'm gonna come in and say, Yeah, uh really, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39:55

Yeah, yeah. Natalie's referencing that, you know. Um, I started. Miracle Botanicals. It's an awesome essential oil company, MiracleBotanicals.com. I started that one in 2011. And then my husband ended up taking it over in 2014, which he's doing a great job. He still gets the best essential oils on the planet. Totally recommend it. Um, but during that time that Natalie is referencing, we had employees, and my husband and my employees would actually talk shit on me. Okay, you talk about some disrespect occurring, right? At that time, I was like deep in my spiritual practice, just into it, way into it. I could see this. It would, I would feel the discomfort when I would come into the house. There'd be like an air in the house. They're basically making fun of my spirituality, making fun of my spiritual path, like something is wrong with me. And you know, the way my husband and even my kids, my some of my kids, two of my kids, we have three kids together, two of them were totally raised with disrespect toward me. This is the that's just the way it was, right? For me, I was just like, I am not even dealing with that right now. I'm in my spiritual practice. That's what I'm doing. I'm not interested in anything they're thinking. I'm not interested in anything they're saying. I don't really care. I don't feel an urge to leave. I'm just gonna go, I'd leave the house. I'd be outside in the yard in the garden, and I'd just be sitting out there meditating, getting some sun, uh sleeping, doing yoga, studying a course in miracles. And I never really said, hey, I know you guys are. I walk in and you guys are talking shit on me. I walk in and this is what's going on, right? Because I just didn't want it. I just didn't want that at the time. So what Natalie is saying, maybe it's because you didn't address it at that time. You didn't address tolerating disrespect, which is basically what it's the same thing. The form does not matter. It's a really good point she's making, because the form of it doesn't matter. It is I've trained my mind, I've taught and learned over and over again to tolerate disrespect in certain climates. It's not, it's not always like that, uh, but it just comes in like that. So thank you, Natalie. Yes, I didn't uh I didn't see it, I didn't address it at that point. I saw it, but I didn't address it. Uh knew it was occurring, and I just knew everything would work out, everything would shake out exactly the way it needs to, and it did. So nothing is, you know, nothing more was required of me at that time, except whatever it was that I could do at that time, and that's what it was. I could observe it, I could recognize it, and I could recognize that um it's not really about me, and I could just go about my doing whatever I'm doing. Yeah. What's happening, Erba?

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:17

So we are talking about our true our our function is forgiveness. And there's a quote from you that I that I always remembered that I I really liked, which is I want to know if you still I think you still agree with this, but how that relates to spiritual bypassing is what you're talking about. Okay, I'm imagining that this would be one of the guidances that you would go with in the midst of what you now call disrespect, but at the time you're just kind of yeah, he knew me at the time.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:42

So it was the quote was true forgiveness is recognizing it never happened.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:48

That's right. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:43:49

So how does so do you you do you still agree with that? Yes. And and so how does that relate to what went now and then and disrespect?

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:56

Okay, yes, okay, yes. He's saying this is one thing I used to say always, and it stuck with him. You know, he was actually around when I was going through this. This guy's been cruising with me for a little bit, okay. So uh so he said one thing I would say is true forgiveness and what I thought happened didn't happen.

SPEAKER_00: 1:44:15

Yeah, it never happened.

SPEAKER_04: 1:44:16

Yeah, right. Still true. What I thought happened never happened. It actually makes it so that I can look on the patterns that are playing, that I can be aware of them. I can see them. When it's what I thought happened, never happened, is used for burying the patterns. That's what spiritual bypassing is, right? So it's just like keeping them under wraps. I was doing awesome at that time because I was practicing that kind of circular forgiveness. This is another thing from chapter two. Okay. I was doing awesome. I was practicing circular forgiveness, the best I could do at the time, right? What I think happened is happening isn't happening. So I'm trying to get relief from these patterns without actually collapsing the pattern. The pattern is a dynamic of disrespect. It needs to be collapsed. To collapse, to collapse it, it needs to be seen. And you see how you play your own part into it. It's not to make anyone guilty at all, especially yourself, right? But to see and recognize you have responsibility for your experience. And part of what you're doing here is playing into this pattern so that you have a shitty experience. And then your experience is trying to push away the spirit, the shitty experience, and say nothing happened. But to you, something still did happen. It's going on in the unconscious mind. See, so this is this is the uh the awareness that you keep that nothing's happened. That is the presence and the protection of God that you have, that nothing happened, so that you can go through and look at what Jesus calls the source of fright, the unconscious mind. That's actually the source of fright. So what happens is people don't see their patterns, especially people who are doing a course in miracles. And I know so many of them that have been doing it, doing it for decades, right? And they're still dealing with, and that's the way they would say it. Dealing with, I'm not there yet. Dealing with patterns, right? Okay, you know, it's a sense of I'm not there yet because the pattern keeps repeating patterns keep repeating. I'm not finding the peace of God because the patterns keep repeating. That's why there's this sense of I'm not there yet. What gives you the sense of holy shit, I am here is collapsing the patterns, is actually collapsing them. And to collapsing them, you have to see. So, one of the things I talked about recently is I had an experience of being treated with cruelty. All right, totally impersonal. There's no person about this, there's an experience. I gave myself that experience. Okay. I have to be willing to see that I gave myself that experience, and that me having experience that there's cruelty in the dynamic, or someone is treating me with cruelty matters because it's demonstrating right there that there's an unconscious belief that needs to be resolved.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47:49

Well, I thought this was a meaningless world. It is okay. So what do you when you say it matters? What does that what does that mean?

SPEAKER_04: 1:47:56

Well, it's all experience, it's all experience, and God's will for us is perfect happiness. So if we're getting an experience of something other than that, it matters. See that it matters because there's something blocking perfect happiness.

SPEAKER_00: 1:48:12

We must be making a mistake in who we take ourselves.

SPEAKER_04: 1:48:14

That's it. It's always, and thank you, Urbad, for that. I love that. He's been with me for a long time, he knows. Yeah, we must be making a mistake in who we take ourselves to be true, we must be now. We want to see what that mistake is, too. Yeah, see, so so so what I found is it wasn't until I was willing to admit I had an experience of being treated with cruelty that I could see. I had to admit that to see.

SPEAKER_00: 1:48:49

That's what I mean, to see who you really are and and the what mistake you were making.

SPEAKER_04: 1:48:54

That's right. In a in in a a belief, it's an underlying belief that's in the unconscious mind, a belief that says my value can be measured. See, it obviously my value can't be measured. I'm the son of God, but these patterns don't know that in the unconscious mind, and it could they keep on playing out as if my value can be measured until I'm willing to see. See what I'm saying? So Orbon and I were having a conversation last week, and he was saying something about weaving into the patterns that the truth is true. And it's like, no, then nothing's being weaving wove in here. The patterns are the patterns, and the truth is true. The patterns are in the dark, the truth is light. See, so when the patterns get to get exposed, the truth dissolves them. It eliminates our need to play into thoughts that have no value. That's really what's going on. Those, you know, it it's a it's a thought that says I could be evaluated, but actually, it's that thought that hasn't been evaluated yet.

SPEAKER_05: 1:50:12

That's such a good symbol. Who's doing the evaluating of thoughts?

SPEAKER_04: 1:50:24

You are you the true the true you is evaluating thoughts. The ego does not want to evaluate thoughts, the ego is using thoughts to evaluate you. That's different. See, you evaluate thoughts as in would I keep it or not? See that you could say that's the that's the true self that would evaluate thoughts as are they meaningful or meaningless, helpful or harmful, right? There's a sorting out of these thoughts. The ego would use thought to evaluate you. That's the difference. Yeah. Yes, it's all for fun. Thank you, Glenn.

SPEAKER_00: 1:51:14

Yes, my love. Well, I was just saying the that that's the the ego is the one that makes the mistake and who we take ourselves to be right, and that is literally the mistake.

SPEAKER_04: 1:51:22

It's it is the mistake, that's right. It's limiting that yes, and our mistake is a choice to listen to the ego, which is largely made unconsciously. That's why we want to see the unseen mind. Okay, there's a and and uh Jesus spent a lot of time on this, very repetitive in chapter two about watching the unwatched mind, and how if you don't watch it, it's just gonna come back. This is why people take a course in miracles and then go away from it. They never watched their unwatched minds, they saw their patterns coming back and they said it doesn't work. I still feel upset, I still have the same relationship pattern. One thing you can do is like uh practice gratitude, like whatever the relationship patterns are. That's what I was doing with my husband. That's what I was doing when all that stuff was going down, and I was coming. I think I was uh referencing that even when you were around, right? Did you hear about that kind of stuff? Tell me again about the employees and the talking about me and that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. So uh so it's like once we're ready to see that this is unconscious patterning that's playing out, that gets seen. Uh and at first we're kind of on the surface. We all do this actually and do circular miracles. The circular miracle is like, hey, it's not even really happening. I get the sense that there's disrespect when I come into my house and it's not even really happening. And Jesus is saying, That's great. I want you to have that relief. You could tell I was always relieved, right? I always had that relief. That's great. I want you to have that relief, but I want you to take it further. I want you to actually collapse the pattern that's causing you to perceive disrespect in the first place. So you don't have to keep forgiving it. Isn't that fun? I really appreciate that. So finally it's come to that. Right. It's finally it's come to that because I've seen that I can't be evaluated in a very visceral sense. Even what I was allowing with my husband, it was like, as if it was like, okay, I'm not even addressing whether or not I can be evaluated or not. All I wanted, I just want relief right now from this sense that I'm being disrespected. What helps with that? It's not really happening. See? See how I'm saying it's not a bad thing, and it's a step in the direction. Even Jesus was talking about this. I want this for you, but I want you to take it further so you don't have to keep on doing that. There's some effort in that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54:17

So it's like there's a truth that it's not really happening. And so then, and and then is there a like I might use the word alchemy, like, okay, well, it certainly seems like it's happening.

SPEAKER_04: 1:54:26

It seems like it is.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54:27

So you're bringing those together and you're and you're using that as grist for the mill to see, like, okay, how am I making this mistake and do I take myself to be that I know this can be happening, and and even if it was, it would be meaningless. But right. Yeah, it seems to have a meaning and it seems to be happening. So there must be a pattern.

SPEAKER_04: 1:54:44

There must be a pattern.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54:46

This this grinding of the grist, you know, needs needs to like be shown. It needs to show.

SPEAKER_04: 1:54:52

Yeah, and it's very gentle because it just needs to be seen. So it's a it's a matter of recognizing like what I didn't recognize back then, because I repeatedly perceive disrespect, there's an underlying pattern to collapse. It was just like I just kept on getting stronger and stronger and more and more tolerant about perceiving disrespect because it wasn't happening, which was perfect for me until a certain point where it crossed the threshold where it was uh where it basically more pain, the it got to be more pain, right? It got to be right painful enough that that I'm like, okay, I need to see this deeper. And then, of course, synchronistically, like it always does, chapter two, deep dive really showed me. Yeah, yeah, I've read it before, but taking those deep dives, and you guys, if you want to take the deep dives with me, just go over to hopejohnson.org and I've got all the deep dives from the beginning of the book. I'll be back here uh Wednesday doing another deep dive, and we're into chapter three. I think we're in sentence four. Yeah. So that's fun.

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:07

We were talking about it last time because I was here for some of that, and you were saying like this might take 10 years to go through to go through the book. This kind of deep dive. Yeah, that's amazing. That's super awesome.

SPEAKER_04: 1:56:19

I know. I'm I'm down for it. What else do I have to do for 10 years? Really? Yeah, I mean, I mean, unless the world just dissolves within the first 10 years, I could. Yeah, that is possible. I'm open for it. Okay. Uh there's just learning for a while, then forgiveness. Yeah, so that's a good point, Cora. It's like it's like you're you're watching, watching, watching. Let's use a situation of the disrespect in my house with the employees and stuff like that. You're you're watching, you're uh, you're practicing forgiveness. It's the circular kind of forgiving. Uh you're still learning. And then the and then the forgiveness, it be it becomes even more uh profound because now you have all this willingness to forgive, no matter how deeply the cut seems to be, or anything like that. You just have all this willingness because you've been practicing that circular forgiveness. It's still a good muscle to work, right? It didn't even happen. Right? I'm doing great, didn't even happen until the repetitive patterns get to the point where it's enough pain that you're gonna look deeper than that. Um, what else is she saying? Be willing to be near with an ear for cruelty, not for agreement of story. That's how you see through the experience of cruelty. Yeah, that's really nice. Yeah, without a story about it, exactly. So it's like it's it's like you'll recognize okay, that is uh that is something that I'm tolerating. Okay, I'm tolerating this. And look at you don't have to do anything. The Holy Spirit does all of it. You just recognize this is tolerating cruelty, and let it take as long. That's the thing is giving up on time. Let it take as long as it needs. Ah, you know, circular forgiveness isn't so bad when you don't, you know, it's it's it's way better than the regular way of looking at things, and it leads to the total collapse of the pattern. Eventually, it does. Yay. Thank you, everyone. Uh, thank you so much for joining. You're all so awesome. I love you so much. I got to go to ecstatic dance today. Uh, Sunday ecstatic dance. I was so stoked. It was inside of a gym. Yeah, it was cool. Like one big window you can look out and watch all the people on their machines and all their news shows playing while they're on their machines. Yeah, we're total workout gym. We're like in the yoga room or something like that. Yeah. And uh just like uh having such a beautiful dance, beautiful expans, expansive dance, and uh sending out all the love and uh all the all the people in the gym. I used to do that thing too, so it's like I have such a uh uh such a connection with a gym a gym bunny, let's say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:59:31

Can I say something? Yeah, but this yeah, I think this dance community, they're ready to see through a major pattern um because they lost their space, which was more hippy-dippy, and they couldn't find any other space. It's like this is the only space. So to like, yeah, there's something to see here. And then notice when we went in, she did a disclaimer, like, okay, you've entered the threshold, that other world of People oh yes, it is all the differentness. Everyone just know you're you're in a safe place, you've crossed the threshold, and so right there, that's the pattern is making those 55. There's one side and there's the other side. Yeah. So this whole dance community, I yeah, I think they're ready to see through the idea that there's sides.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:23

That there's any sides, yeah. Uh yeah, it seems it seems like a portal. Whenever we walk into a room, like here, we walk into a gym, right? So it's like a portal, like there's there's a certain uh energetic uh thought, and all energetic is thought. So it's it's waves of thought that it's common for people in a particular place. That's how it has to be for any beings to even join. Okay. So it's like when you find yourself also in that space, it could only be because there's resonant thoughts. Isn't that not any other way? It can only be that. So it's kind of like a it's kind of like a prisoner who goes to prison and says, I don't belong here.

SPEAKER_00: 2:01:08

Obviously you do, huh?

SPEAKER_04: 2:01:12

Yeah, obviously you do. What what I notice, what I notice is is like for me, um noticing how I was when I used to go to the gym and be in that mindset, I used to actually believe that what I did affected my body. And now I see things way different. It is not uh anything like that at all. Uh it's you can't you cannot do anything to affect your body, good or bad. Right? So this is the whole mindset, and everyone's in that. And it's such a guilty mindset because it's saying, I must not be doing it good enough because my body is not behaving. That's basically the mindset that's going on in there. I must need to find another routine, another this, another that. Um, because it's, you know, when they're first fresh, they're like all hopeful. I'm gonna do this, this, it's gonna look like this, it's gonna turn out like this. Like, really, we can just let go of control on all that stuff, recognizing that the body doesn't really need that much attention. Not like that, it's a body sense. So, see how it's it's the signals. If you're having an experience, for instance, of a disrespectful dynamic, or that you seem to be disrespected, that's what the body sense is for. That's actually what it's for. So you can recognize that, like Orbot said, and he's repeating something I've shared many, many times. You must be mistaken about who you are in that moment, and that's what we want to see. So, yay, I'm glad you enjoyed. Thank you for thank you so much, Glenn. Thank you, everyone. I love you so much. I'll be back on Wednesday. Woo! Yay! Yeah, thank you for joining. Couldn't be any other way. Thank you, Glenn. Uh, Wednesday, we'll be back with an ACIM deep dive. Of course, I'm super stoked about that. You guys know how it is. I just love it. Uh, three to five, same channel. If you're joining on Zoom, it's the same link. If you're joining on Substack, it's a different link, but you can subscribe to me on Substack, which I recommend because then you'll get my writings. And when you get my writings, you also get bonus audios. They're like little wisdom dialogues. And if you're listening to this right now and you don't want to pay for Substack, ask me and I'll give you a free lifetime paid subscription. So hooray, everyone. Until next time, Mahalo, aloha, and a hoo-ho.

SPEAKER_05: 2:03:59

Woohoo!