Thought Watching | Wisdom Dialogues @ Lake Whatcom, WA | January 18, 2026

Ever feel like your mind is running a loop you didn’t sign up for—catastrophizing, chasing intensity, or quietly agreeing with stories about scarcity and safety? We pull that thread all the way through: from thought to feeling to perception, showing how unwatched narratives put the body at the center and keep peace just out of reach. The turn begins when we watch a thought and admit its meaninglessness; sensation softens, drama drops, and action becomes simple again.

We share how to ask one grounding question—Is this helpful?—and let it guide everything from self-care routines to tough conversations. You’ll hear why giving is receiving, how extending love where it feels least appropriate rewires your energy in real time, and why empathy needs to be handed to compassion, not fear. We explore “no victims” without bypassing service, and how recognizing shared authorship restores dignity and strength. Cause and effect return to their rightful home in the mind, and with that, pain, tension, and scarcity lose their script.

Labels and early conditioning get a reframing: naming isn’t the issue, separation is. Forgiveness becomes a live practice of seeing that everything perceived is what we are not, so we can rest in what knows. Entertainment, news, and even dark symbols can serve awakening when we stop consenting to distraction and use the nervous system’s reactions as cues to return to quiet. Relationships shift from special to holy as we drop transactions and remember our shared interest in peace. Throughout, we keep the tone light and practical—turning small talk into joining, replacing “trying” with presence, and letting helpful action arise on its own.

If you’re ready to stop fueling the ego’s roller coaster and discover the steady ease underneath, press play. Then share your takeaway, subscribe for more Wisdom Dialogues, and leave a review so others can find the show. What loop will you watch and release today?

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & The Body-Centered Thought Trap
• 3:20 Mind Watching: Thought, Feeling, Perception Loop
• 7:20 “Lazy” Is A Thought: Purpose Of The World
• 10:55 Ego Highs, Crashes, And Chasing Intensity
• 15:30 Asking What’s Helpful And Talking To “Holy Spirit”
• 20:30 Extending Love Versus Projecting Fear
• 26:00 Not Your Body: Cause And Effect In Mind
• 31:00 Empathy To Compassion: No Victims
• 35:40 Spiritual Fortitude And Meeting Fear
• 41:20 Forgiveness As Seeing What You Are Not
• 45:20 Labels, Meaning, And Early Conditioning
• 50:00 Unlearning Separation Without Blame
• 55:10 Joining Over Small Talk: Making It Fun
• 1:00:30 Need, Want, And The Myth Of Scarcity
• 1:05:40 Already Helpful: Atonement And Innocence
• 1:11:00 Quiet Mind, Entertainment, And Distraction
• 1:17:20 Holy Relationship Over Special Relationship
• 1:22:30 The Replay: Choosing Scenes And Timelines
• 1:28:00 Pain, Projection, And Undoing Cause In The World
• 1:34:00 Symbols, Dark Imagery, And Non-Consent
• 1:39:20 Using Media For Practice, Not Numbing
• 1:45:00 Resting In Stillness & Closing Gratitude

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:03

Aloha and welcome to Wisdom Dialogues with Hope Johnson. Yeah, coming to you from Lake Watcom in Washington.

SPEAKER_00: 0:19

Yeah. Yay.

SPEAKER_03: 0:28

So every thought that's not, you could say a thought of God, every thought of the world has the body at the center. Every single one of them. It's all about getting comfort for it, safety, status, abundance. It's all about. You know, it doesn't really mean anything. Whatever thought it is that seems to be crossing by, it maybe seems to be uh about another person or a situation, or uh maybe a fantasy of having a million dollars, you know, what you would do with it, you know. Before I started mind watching, I would actually go off on disastrous threads, right? Like one common one would be like, what if my husband passed away? And like at the time we had an insurance policy, and it's like, okay, the whole thread keeps ongoing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:56

Would I be better off with him or without him, actually?

SPEAKER_03: 2:03

You know, and and he's sitting right here. He thinks it's funny. It's comedy, it really is. It's not uh this is not something that anyone actually does. It's thoughts that are crossing our mind, crossing our awareness. And when we take them to be meaningful, then they automatically keep on playing for us. They keep on extrapolating. That one will pass away, and then another one will arise, another thought pattern, uh projecting out for the future, like it's just going to be terrible, and it's gonna uh, and and you're gonna just get old and be in pain, and you're gonna die just like everyone else that you saw do that. See, it's our own extrapolations. The world that we seem to see is actually made a hundred percent made. That's every single thing, every speck of it, by our thought patterns, unwatched. Unwatched. That's all. You know, nothing to be afraid of, right? When you recognize well, all all it is, it's just about watching because when I'm watching it, I'm aware that it's meaningless. If I'm not aware that it's meaningless, and it's just automatically believed by me, it's gaining power and momentum. And we're only we're we're like only practicing a state of mind that keeps on continuing. So it's a state of mind. It occurred to me this week. This is why Yoda said, Don't try, just do, right? Because the thought that you're trying to do something becomes a loop, you're never out of that. You're always continually in the try, let's say trying to be aware. Trying to be aware. Let's say you want to make sure that you feel everything that you are perceiving. And read the reason why you might have that uh desire pop up is because you're aware that everything you're perceiving is actually an effect of how you're feeling. It goes like this: it goes thought, feeling, perception. You could say, and a feeling is also an illusion, so you don't have to get all dramatic about them. All right, you don't have to be be dramatic. Feeling is also an illusion, it's just the first illusion, it's feeling first, and then manifestation, right? And out, and here's how the loop goes there's perception of the feeling and manifestation, and there's reintroducing the same belief again. There it is, there's the proof that I'm lazy, for instance, right? You know, and I share with people you're not capable of being lazy. No one's actually capable of being lazy in a material way, because the material world is projected from an all-powerful mind, and that is nothing, that is nothing lazy about that. What's lazy is not watching the thoughts. That's all. And and that's one of the thoughts. The thoughts that says, I'm so lazy, you recognize that's projected out into the field. That moment where you recognize that you're not being lazy at all. You're the opposite of that, you're completely productive for the goal that you made this world for you to accomplish. You made this world for you to accomplish a particular goal. Okay. You know, the first thing that comes to mind when I just hear myself say that is about 15 years ago when I first showed up in Pune, and I I and I was at a meeting with a lot of spiritual people, uh, you know, self-proclaimed. And we were going around and giving our interpretation of what the meaning of life is. And to me, when it came to me, I said, you know, there isn't really anything here. You're not really talking about life, you know, as far as my understanding was like that at that point of 15 years ago, you're not really talking about life when you're saying what's the meaning of this, it really doesn't have any meaning, so it must be to have a good ass time. So I'm gonna go with have a good ass time. And it's true, but the ego doesn't know how to have a good ass time, it only knows how to have temporary intensity followed by a crash. That's the ego's good time. Think of it like this: you went out, you had a bunch of drinks, you let a load off, and you did a bunch of shit that you don't remember. And then the next day you wake up going, oh fuck. That's the ego's way. That's the ego's good ass time, and that's just one example of all the other ways. Relationships, right? Jobs, whatever. It's like it comes with uh ego good time, comes with intensity. And I'm not saying intensity is bad. I love intensity, I think it's fun. You know, I do block therapy. A lot of people would say that's pretty intense, you know, laying on a block of wood. Natalie saying yes, you know, it doesn't look like anything impressive from the outside. You're kind of like flopped over some wood, kind of like, you know, a hurt duff or something like that, kind of like whatever. But you know, it's it's noticing that chasing any kind of intensity and block therapy included, that becomes a really good symbol for me, right? Because I get excited about, man, this stuff is melting. This is cool. Uh, I'm feeling more free and alive and things are moving and stuff like that. So it makes it seem like you want to push, push, push some more. And that's kind of like how the ego is with everything, right? More, more, more, more. Do it more. Hey, if you miss some days, you're gonna wind back up and go the opposite way. You don't want to go. So playing with that in a really uh in a really loving way, like, like not scaring myself, no block therapy or something like that. Block therapy's bad. Uh, or uh, or making it like I have to do a lot, just kind of like right there in the middle. And that lets you be present to it in the moment. It's like, does this serve? You another way you can say is, is this helpful? Yeah, really, you're just asking that to yourself. It, you know, before you know it is yourself and you feel guilty and like there's another, that's uh that's fine. It's not nothing wrong with it. Ask God, ask the Holy Spirit. You know, that's what I kept on doing until it was kind of recent for me too. And I was, I was like, holy shit, I'm talking to myself. There's no one else to talk to. No one else is talking back. I'm just having a conversation with myself. And you know, uh, the way a Course in Miracles teaches it is to ask the Holy Spirit, and you know, everything has its uh, you can say longevity, use usefulness, let's say, usefulness. So it's not like a matter of there's some things you should do and some things you shouldn't do as far as your spiritual unfolding. It's just whatever feels in alignment. So what feels in alignment for me a lot is how can I be helpful? Is this helpful? Right, and allowing myself to uh be with whatever experience, whatever expression is the most helpful, and in this way, I always find myself in the right situation for me to be the right the most helpful. It's perfect like that. That's what I asked for, right? So if I if I asked for uh how can I be the most helpful, right? Let's say uh let's say if I do a half hour of block therapy right now, then there would be an interaction that then wouldn't happen. So it's like, how can I be the most helpful to the whole? Not how can I uh get the best benefit for this body. There's an idea of things that benefit the body. There seems to be an idea of things that benefit the body, but always like in the moment is like you could feel it, even if you're planning something for uh the apparent future, which is also now, so you could feel it. Notice, just notice, and anything that arises that seems like you don't want it there, that's an opportunity for you to go deeper, for you to see more, basically cleaning your lens of perception, right? Coming back to this is the way I want it, because this is the most helpful. See, let's see, yes, wow, amazing show. Thank you, Glenn. I appreciate that. He said comedy show. Yes, that's right. Thank you for seeing that. Uh, Durga. When I seem to be extending love and I seem to be feeling love, is this projection? Okay, you could say, let's say yes. Let's say yes. Okay. Uh it's a it's a projection that has an underlying current to it that undoes all other projections, let's say. See, and you seem to her question, when I seem to be extending love, and I seem to be feeling love, is this projection? Yeah, you could say giving is receiving. You can call it projection, that's fine. Extending and projecting, they're basically the same mechanism. We're calling it extending when it's love to differentiate between something that heals and something that basically kills. That's why there's that distinction. But it's the same thing as is the same thing in heaven extending love. That's the same thing, that's creation, extending love, and you receive, giving is receiving, so you receive the benefits of that right away. That's why she's saying she seems to be feeling love, right? And notice how when you extend love, especially in situations where first you got the the perception that it's not appropriate to extend love, and you realize that it's your true will to extend love, that's where you really notice the shift in your body's energy field. You can notice because the sense, getting the sense that extending love isn't appropriate, let's say, given the circumstances or given the person's behavior, and then you see past that, it's like a huge relief. You can sense that relief. And yes, you're projecting all of the feelings that you seem to be uh that you seem to be having, let's say you're perceiving these feelings, because you know, you're not capable of these uh bodily sense sensations, there's something that's like a feeling that's part of your experiencing in creation, but it doesn't seem to sway or have any opposite. You can get a taste of that here. That's what the extending love is all about. And you know, heaven where love is extending automatically between us is also here. It's just that the the unconscious mind is dense. Okay, it's we're we're perceiving through this density, and that's what makes it as if there's something else here, there's something else other than love, there's something else that we wouldn't keep, and this is not in a way of rejecting or pushing something away, it's in noticing we don't need anything uh fearful, we don't need any fearful thoughts to survive, we don't need any thoughts of scarcity to get by, we don't need the ego's help. See, you only seem to need the ego's help if you want to accomplish something in the world on your own. The Holy Spirit may accomplish things through you, but that's entirely different, and really that's the only thing that keeps us apart is thinking we are on our own, thinking we are separate from our brothers, thinking they're not giving us exactly what we need in the given moment. Thinking we should be better than we are, fitter, happier. One of my friends wrote me recently. I I haven't even written her back. Uh not yet. Something about how she's comfortable in her sadness. But maybe she said she's happy for me. Hold on, I'm gonna look it up. It's good. It's fun. Yeah, something about I feel comfortable in my sadness, but I think she also said, Oh, but she loves me being happy, she thinks it's sweet, yeah. So this may be a step for you where you just feel comfortable in your sadness, right? Like, okay, I'm not gonna try to get out of the sadness anymore. I'm not gonna look at it as a problem and try to get out of the sadness, right? I'm just gonna experience the sadness and go, I'm really comfortable in the sadness, and just be with that, have the experience, right? Also, when you're ready to recognize that any kind of sadness is based on a miscreation in thought. That's the underlying. When you're ready, you know, you can bask in frolic and sadness all day long. Wear some dark eyeliner, maybe. I would go for the whole part. I mean, in fact, I have. I've been goth before, right? Go that's what that's why we have high school, I think, right? We can try out all this different shit. I was a cowgirl, I was a fucking goth person, I was a slut for that's definitely a fun one to try. Um a rocker, right? All kinds of different a prep. Right? Tried all these different roles, and you see, more and more, as you're allowing yourself to just be that role, you see, more and more you're not any of the roles. You're not gonna find yourself in sadness. You're not gonna find yourself in happiness either. You're not in it. The reason why God's will for you is perfect happiness is because that's what you actually want. You're the same one as God. It's just thinking that you can't have that. That's the miscreation. For some reason, you can't have that. Something's preventing you from having it. And you project those things and hurl those things out in the world and go, no wonder I'm sad. For instance, look look what's happening in the world. For instance, look at the sky. First blue sky day. What do they do? Spray some chemtrails up there.

SPEAKER_02: 21:28

Why wouldn't I be sad?

SPEAKER_03: 21:33

Right? The ego will give you all kinds, and you know, it'll even look like someone who's happy. Oh, that's sweet. They're cute, they're happy. How cute. They must not know the things I know about the world, otherwise, they'd be justified in sadness at a minimum. I've even seen Facebook posts that say, if you're not pissed out, pissed off about this, I don't want to know you. It's like, whoa, dude. Right? If you're not, if this doesn't make you really angry, yeah. Can I just claim retarded in that sense? I mean, I'm just gonna go with that. We were talking about uh mental retardation in recent ACIM deep dives, and there's two ways to have mental retardation, and then there's also pseudo pseudo-retardation. That's where you just pretend to be retarded, right? So you can get out of things. One of them, uh one important one is spiritual awakening, right? Pseudo-retardation, and the way Jesus was talking about it, that's just acting like you can't get it. Because when you act like you can't get it, you're also acting like Jesus is a crappy teacher, right? As if you you could just do everything he says to do, and you're not gonna get it. You know, speaking of a course in miracles, it's very precise as to what to do each day. It's kind of like you're brainwashing yourself. And uh your mind is so powerful to say uh to have it say, I can't get this, I don't understand what it's saying, this is too confusing. That's a defense, the defense against the truth, right? You know, having a mind like a child as it is perceiving the world is this willingness to recognize that everything you perceive is not even there, it's not really there, so it's not really scary. It may present itself, things may present themselves as scary, but nothing's really scary. So, you know, speaking of scarcity consciousness, right? Scare right in the word, right? It's uh or you know, the idea that this body, like as the idea that this body is yours. You know what's funny? I've been going to uh light therapy, and one of the beds, the one of the tanning beds, it's always talking whenever people go into that tanning but bed, and it continually conditions you saying, it's your body. You heard that, right? It's part of the thing, it's a trip. Like you every it's like goes off twice for people, and as soon as they walk in there, it'll be like it'll say the name of the company, and then it'll say, It's your body, yeah. Uh, it's not your body like that, okay. Uh, it's it doesn't have any real value for you, and nothing that you do is beneficial for it, and nothing that you do is threatening to it because you're not really doing those things, those are things are not really happening. It's only the thinking, it's only the thinking that either makes it vibrant, free, you know, appearing vibrant, free, pain-free, you could say. Um, you know, like happy body, you could say it comes from your willingness to not be identified as it. And what I what do I mean by that? Doesn't mean going around telling people I'm not the body, you're not the body, I'm not the body, that kind of stuff. It's recognizing disidentifying from the body is a matter of recognizing that all the thoughts you have are about the body, all thoughts in the world, all worldly thoughts. Notice how many of them. And so many of them think that they're gonna benefit the body, and so many of them think that they're going to be a threat to the body. It's kind of like, let's see if we can balance this out. I'm gonna have uh two wines tonight, so I better have two waters with those two wines. And I what I'm saying is it is fine if that occurs. You know, that thought may occur to you. Oh, yeah, okay. If I'm having some waters with them. It's the idea that it has any effect whatsoever. When these are all just manifestations that you're coming up with out of nothing. You're making these manifestations, things seeming to interact with your body, but really all effects are coming from your mind. So it's willingness to recognize that in the moment. See what I mean? This is what gently undoes body identification. It may look completely hopeless to you because it looks like every thought is talking about it. And uh, and you know, this doesn't mean that you uh deny the body in the way that the ego would deny the body, which I see occurring with a lot of ACIM students. It's like they're trying to not do anything for the body because they're afraid of it. That's the same thing, it's still making the body real. Right? You don't have to try not to do anything for the body, whatever it seems that you are doing for the body, even the trains of thought that seem like something's beneficial for the body, recognizing it's coming from your mind. That's all. You can use all the things that seem to be good and things that seem to be bad for the body. You're gonna use all the things in a way where it's actually uh will reflect as if it's good for your body when you just see that it comes from your mind and nothing has power over this. See? Let's see, what do you have to say, my love? I'm glad you're here. Okay, I've heard people say base their happiness on this children. Okay, I don't know what you're saying there, and say, I'm only as happy as my most unhappy child. Oh, that's not a good way to go. Like life only. Yeah, you know, it's like it's a matter of being open. I've heard people say that. Yeah, I have I've heard I've heard that too. Um it's as if that's gonna be helpful. Yeah. It's as if as it's as as if that's good for people. I have heard uh one friend saying that he's not gonna be happy because people in the world are suffering. You know, thinking that he can join them in unhappiness. That but that really makes separation. Tony said there are no people in the world, right? That's why it makes that's why it makes separation. When you're thinking there are sad people in the world, and that's the reason you can't be released from sadness, you're making them and their sadness into a reality for you, which actually holds their consciousness in the same place. So it's really the opposite of being helpful because it's as if you're telling the mind, I want to keep them here, I want to keep them in this state. This this is a beneficial state for me to be able to perceive people hungry, not being able to afford things or whatever it is, whatever the question is. You know, that thing that makes you feel bad for people, you can call it empathy. Let's call it empathy. Empathy is meant to be given to compassion, it's not meant to be given to fear.

SPEAKER_00: 31:39

Right?

SPEAKER_03: 31:40

It's like we feel each other because the perception we have of one another actually comes from a feeling within us. Each body that we perceive is projecting off of a certain frequency within our own energy field. So when there's a perception of a frequency that seems to trigger a sad or upset feeling, that's the moment to go. Oh, this is for embracing. This isn't for projecting, like, oh, those poor people. Let's say people on the street, Tony and I are walking around the streets of Bellingham today, and some people were just like chilling right there in the sidewalk. The sun was out, and they're just like all spread out. Apparently, they live outside. Tony and I are kind of like, how the fuck do they do that? Live outside. I'm outside on a sunny day, and I'm going, get me inside. It's cold around here. Um, but you know, that's just a passing thought about things. Really, what it is, is they are choosing, you could say, choosing the experience they need. Because what that's how it is at the source of it. You know, we're all choosing the experience we need. So when you approach your experience with that awareness, I am choosing this experience, that's different. But you have to give everyone the same kind of benefit. It really is a benefit to see like this that everyone is choosing their experience. That doesn't mean you can't find yourself giving them uh some money if they're asking for money or something like that. It's it's really is just in the recognizing that there's no victims here, no one's victimized here. Everyone is actually finding themselves in the situation that's the most beneficial for awakening. So they even may be telling a story like they're down on their luck, you know? Uh, and that's kind of a repetitive thing that people get in those loops about. I'm down on my luck again and again and again and again. So it's so very helpful for you to just see them uh truly as this is not possible for anyone to be down on their luck. The illusion may look like that. It may be giving me uh an opportunity to extend something, maybe even in a monetary way, right? Maybe and and maybe not, you know, that's why we don't make rules for ourselves because we want to find ourselves in a state of mind where it's like, let me know what is helpful, and I'll do only that. I'm willing to do only that, not more than that. Then it gets into an ego trying to prove that I'm helpful. I actually don't give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks about me being helpful or not. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04: 35:31

That's how we create a world in our minds, it's not even in our own experience. Right. Like that person laying on the sidewalk was in our experience. Yes. So my thought was, well, they have a lot of fortitude. So they're proving to themselves their fortitude.

SPEAKER_03: 35:45

They're proving to themselves their fortitude. Okay, that's what that's what that's what happened for Tony. When he perceived a person laying on the sidewalk getting some sun, fortitude. What is fortitude, anyways? That's a fun word. Where would that come from? Where would fortitude come from? They're taking it upon themselves to build their own reality.

SPEAKER_04: 36:10

They're doing it, they're doing their thing, they're projecting what they want to do. They want this is hard, but I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03: 36:19

Strength of mind and character that enables a person to face difficulty, pain, or fear. So here's the thing you know, fortitude, the only real fortitude is spiritual fortitude, right? Knowing that you uh you can endure anything that arises, right? Whatever it is, knowing that, you know, even for me, when I get that perception, it's like, shit, those those ones, but I don't have to start, and I have done this before, it's been very helpful. Imagine myself in the same kind of situation and let myself feel the fortitude, let's say, let myself feel that. Uh, at this point, my mind doesn't go to that because there's no fear of that, because I've already felt the fortitude, right? So I've recognized I let my mind go to what if, and you know, I've shared that with you guys here a lot of times. Like, what if you're in living in a cardboard box? What if you don't even have a cardboard box and you're somewhere cold, right? The ego keeps these things kind of like under wraps in the unconscious mind, all these fears. Oh no, I can't do that. I'll absolutely die if I did that. That would be the worst, right? So for a time I found myself just letting my mind go, watch it go to extrapolate to okay, it's the worst thing ever. You're naked and cold and alone. And then let myself feel that strength, right? The strength of mind, the mind of the creator, the strength in the mind of the creator, and you know, having that experience too. Uh, in childbirth was one place where I found myself having that experience where it seems like it's too much. I'm not gonna be able to, I can't handle this, it's too much. And noticing, oh, there is something, there is some strength. There's some strength in the mind that just allows ease through everything, through any kind of situation, any kind of uh what they might call excruciating pain. In my case, I was given Demerol, and that seemed to not work. So it seemed completely hopeless. My mind had nowhere to go. I already went in my mind, that was the strongest drug. Already went to the strongest drug, nowhere else to go. Might as well uh relax in the strength of the mind where I really am. Well, that's this is where I actually am. Aloha Kalama. Thank you for joining me on Substack. Substack peeps. I check over there for your comments and questions uh throughout. I love you, and thank you to all my Zoom people. I love you too. So you don't have to be any kind of strong, like you don't have to gear up physically, let's say, to meet this world. You don't have to try to eat the right foods, let's say, to meet this world in the right way. All you need is right now to know yourself. That's really what it is. Right now to know yourself, and the easiest and most direct way to that is to recognize everything you perceive is what you are not. That's what forgiveness is. So anything that it could reflect, people's approval, people's disapproval, people's love of you, people's hatred of you, right? Uh, your own uh slothiness, let's say, stinkiness, I don't know, uh, whatever it is that's reflecting back to you, that is not who you are. You are timeless. Okay, you're not on a timeline, you're nowhere on a timeline or outside of the timeline, kind of watching a review of it. And and you know, going, oh, I want to try it this way this time, I'm gonna try it over, try it this way this time, try it over here, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 41:00

Well, in the review, too, um I was like hinting back to the Course in Miracles um lessons I was listening to that you and Tony were doing 10, 11, and 12.

SPEAKER_03: 41:17

10, 11, and 12 on a Course in Miracles. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 41:20

So in that review, then what we're doing is erasing the meaning that we scripted onto everything and letting the true meaning of everything be revealed. Yes, that's right there. But we together, like it was so I was listening to that this week, and I just all weekend, like, oh, a giant. I'm just imagining this giant eraser. Yeah, I'm like, how fun that is. It's like, yeah, I gladly, gladly, give me the eraser, man.

SPEAKER_03: 41:54

I'm gonna see what's really what's really underneath that, yeah. Uh well, you know, the meaning that we put on illusions give us a feeling effect, and that feeling effect becomes something that's familiar to us, something that we're used to, right? It's like, and a lot of it is is just a painful sense. The meaning that we put on to the world is painful, it's limiting freedom, it's limiting authenticity. It's like it's as if you can't be yourself, you know, authentically, you're just happy and carefree.

SPEAKER_04: 42:36

But it's what we've taught each other to society and to our families and what's passed out.

SPEAKER_03: 42:42

Tony's saying it's what we've taught each other.

SPEAKER_04: 42:44

That this is a chair, this is a table, this is a house, that's a like we've all agreed on all these things. It's just a dictionary. So we put these labels on everything, and that's what we're experiencing is our idea of what it is, not really actually what it is.

SPEAKER_03: 42:58

Yeah, so Tony's talking about putting labels on things, saying, you know, we've trained ourselves to say this is a in his example, table, chair, tree, lake, right? And saying these are what these things are. And you know, yeah, we we end up at first we're just playing, we're naming things things, so we can have a good time with them, but then it gets to be my table, let's say, right? Uh something becomes personal to us, separate, separate identities creeps in, separation, right? So when we're first learning as children, we're learning all these things are separate from us. There's us, and there's all these things that are separate from us. Before we start learning that things are separate from us, we don't know anything separate from us. It's just all us. That's how it actually is. That's why when I was a little kid and I got the sense that everyone's doing everything for me, I was actually getting a sense about what's true. Everyone is doing everything for you. That's how it is. No one is really here in the way that it seems. When we are interacting with one another, we're interacting with God, you could say, not with the image that they seem to be.

SPEAKER_01: 44:38

One other thing that these early lessons reminded me of is, and I think it maybe goes along with what Tony was saying is to be aware that you are perceiving a meaningless world is very fearful. It is very fearful to think that things are meaningless. Right. It's just we so that's why I think there's the scramble. It's like, oh my god, let's quit, let's make meaning, meaning, meaning, uh, chair, uh, link, uh, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 45:15

It's an attempt to um describe reality.

SPEAKER_01: 45:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 45:19

That it can only be like a partial truth. And so we're living with this partial truth that we know is only a partial truth all the time.

SPEAKER_03: 45:26

Okay. Uh background talking. Shh, it doesn't show up on here.

SPEAKER_01: 45:31

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 45:32

Okay, so like whatever you guys want to share, you share it here with me so I can say what it is. So people on the recording, people with me live, they're actually feel like they're in the room with us.

SPEAKER_02: 45:50

All of a sudden, a whole spiritual discussion just starts happening in the background. Ah, where were we?

SPEAKER_03: 46:05

Okay, so it's not in it's not in the labeling things. That is not wrong. That's not what it's good, what's going on here. It's not in the labeling thing that's a things that's a problem. Okay, that's a that's how the ego goes goes. It's always gonna go, okay, it's because we label things. Well, yeah, we're having a separate world here. Uh if you say the chair is over there, someone's gonna know what you meant because they learn language and they learn how to label things. It's that there's a different kind of learning that takes place while people are learning that things have labels. Learning that things have labels is good. It's just like learning math, it's just like learning reading, anything like that. It's just that while learning, there's a uh there's also kind of like a side effect of learning. Okay, it's like a learning side effect. And that side effect is that these things are actually separate from me. The problem is not that they have a label on them, okay? It's it's that there's an there's an issue in recognizing giving them a label does not mean that they're separate from me. So it's it's like it takes it out of uh out of your command, and everything is actually in your command. Okay, everything that you get a perception of, and what do I mean by that? It's made of love. Everything beneath what you're perceiving of it, beneath the perception you're having, the thing, the person, the circumstance, whatever it is, it's made of love. So there's no uh there's no there's no separation, there's also no threat. And also uh one thing that Natalie was talking about is knowing that this is a meaningless world, recognizing this is a meaningless world brings up fear. And that's because in the process of learning, all the learning that takes place for how to be in this world, it comes with that side effect of believing in separation. Believing in separation requires making meaning of things. Oh, this isn't just a house, this is my house. Oh, this is where I live, and these are my parents. See, so it's teaching us to make all this stuff meaningful and teaching us this is where our safety is in the meaning that we make of the world. So there's an unlearning that takes place, the learning is also valuable, the learning separation is valuable, and every kid does it, because for forgiveness to be any kind of effective, you have to have something tangible to forgive. So if you never learn separation, you have nothing tangible to forgive. Like the purpose of you apparently being born in a world is to get conditioned in separation. See, the ego mind will start with this story of and they messed us up right from the beginning, telling us and then doing this, and no, it's actually beneficial wherever you find yourself in whatever it is, it's of benefit because that's where your mind extrapolated to, and all of that conditioning that you went through, it's like it's all being erased through your new way of seeing because you're not seeing it as if it did this to you, right? It's like a happy dolphin jumping into kind of like this soup jumping into this role where you're gonna be a child, an innocent, empty slate, getting conditioned into illusion. You're going, yeah, because you know when you're diving in, you know that you have exactly what it takes. You know you have that fortitude behind you. So you're going to be able to meet anything with truth. And in your meeting it with truth, all the illusion is gonna come undone. And you're not only gonna see for yourself, but you're gonna you're gonna witness everyone else seeing as well, right? You bear witness even to other people's seeing, right? And that's one of the things that can make you uh really happy and uh receptive to more beauty is watching and appreciating every step toward truth you see anyone else, you perceive anyone else making. Right? Any kind of appreciation you can give for extending love, joining, awakening wisdom in the field multiplies it for you because it's actually yours, it's all yours.

SPEAKER_00: 52:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 52:10

I shared that with a woman in a way. Um when she met me and she told me uh someone else told her that I was enlightened, and she said, I definitely feel something around you. And I go, Okay, well, all the feelings that you're perceiving, those are coming from you. So any kind of enlightened that you perceive about me is actually coming from you. That's your enlightened that you're not claiming right now that you're putting it to a person, you're putting it to we're we're really all the same. We're really all uh uh we're really all just perfect creations, you can say, really all the same. So any kind of uh perspective that you have about another person is actually coming from you, it's not on them, right? It's not really on them, so that's why I'm saying this really helps too to appreciate any kind of love. Like I'll just see people extending love to each other and let myself feel the benefit of that. Because that's me, that's all me. You were yeah, Tony's saying we're projecting it. Yes, exactly. And in and let's say any any kind of rudeness, which I don't seem to perceive very much of that, but any kind of rudeness that does get perceived, it's just a matter of recognizing that is not interesting, it's not even interesting, it doesn't really matter. What's it's like whatever is interesting to you, that's what you keep on seeing more of. And and notice that. What's interesting? Notice what stories seem to get you excited. Here's one story that I hear pretty often about how much less shit used to cost 30 years ago or whatever. Uh the parents, grandparents, whatever, apparently they paid way less for houses than people do now. Apparently, that doesn't match inflation, too. Okay. Okay. Is that interesting? Is it in if it's interesting to you? This is how you know you keep sh telling the story. See, this illusion needs projecting to be upheld. So the story about that becomes interesting to the ego thinks it knows and something's gone wrong. Because before it's and see, look at it like this, everything is unfolding so that you will be willing to lay the world aside. Everything it just keeps on that's that that's how it's helping. That's how it's being helpful.

SPEAKER_01: 55:51

Yes, um I do want to be truly helpful. Um I do find myself going into that that conversation loop with like a lot of my clients. Um, it just feels comfortable. Um what's the conversation loop? Oh my gosh, can you believe the prices of things today? Oh, good. I go right in there, and because it seems like we're uh uh joining on something. Um so a lot of time after the fact, uh, we all look back and I'll be like, okay, do a forgiveness around that, you know. Um so yeah, yeah, not really being truly does it matter that I keep going into these conversation loops.

SPEAKER_03: 56:41

Well, well, here's what's happening, okay?

SPEAKER_01: 56:43

I do want to be helpful, but it feels comfortable to like chit-chat with people like that.

SPEAKER_03: 56:48

Right. Yeah, that's the that's the draw.

unknown: 56:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 56:51

Because it's because it seems like you're connecting, yeah. But there's no connecting on illusion, right? So so it's like there's a pattern and a program playing out that's comfortable for you. So it's a matter of being aware, like you are right now, you're aware there's a pattern playing out. It's not a matter of should I keep doing it or not. It's a matter of being aware of it when it's playing out and kind of like, how can this be more fun? Because I know it's boring as fuck to play out those comfortable patterns. Okay. That's not fun. Uh to me, it's inauthentic. So it's not having fun. That's not having fun. See, you know, for me, a lot of the times I'll just tell a joke. I'll be like, fuck, next thing you know, it's gonna be 50 bucks for a cup of coffee. I don't know, whatever comes up, you know. Just uh just making light of it, right? Because it's very light, any kind of you know, whatever people are expressing some kind of an upset. It's not your job to correct people. See, that's the part where you know you're afraid of not joining because when you when you speak something like let's say they're saying, oh, the price, and and you're and and you're like coming from super mystical, lofty perspective where you're going, there's not even any such thing as money, so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about right now, lady. Um to you know, just recognizing, oh, there's my mind playing, playing with that concept. Oh, that's a playful concept, right? And and a lot of the times I'll just listen. Oh, okay. Not add anything to the conversation, right? I'll just uh huh, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04: 58:49

Let me drizzle up.

SPEAKER_03: 58:50

Yeah, let them let let them listen to themselves. Let them listen to themselves. Not it's uh I'm not always like uh drawn to speak, you know, it's not like I need to I need to say something right there, right? I could just be massaging them and kind of like it's okay, because you know, when someone's expressing something like that, they're expressing a hardship, a hardship on their heart, basically. Yeah. You know, uh even something like, you know, it's a good thing we're all truly sustained by the love of God. The price could be a hundred bucks, whatever. It's not gonna matter, right? Really recognizing that within yourself will allow the words to flow exactly as they need to. You know, everyone will hear what they need to hear. Um, and going through the boringness, the absolute boringness of being comfortable.

SPEAKER_05: 59:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 59:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 59:59

I really am starting to 20th time this week we're talking about this. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:10

You seem like the conversation's the same thing. So you, so you know, and and you know, where you just go into the comfort of it too, it's also covering that thought up. It's making that as this thought is true, and it's not letting you look at it and say, wait a second, this doesn't make any sense. It doesn't matter what the cr the price of things is. You could see how you could see how consciousness is holding this illusion in place. People keep on repeating it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:44

It's like it, like it keeps on mattering.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:51

That's what's making all those tight muscles that you loosely got.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:54

Yeah. Yeah, that's what's making everyone have have tight muscles. Natalie's a massage therapist, and she's over there massaging people, and they're telling, basically telling her what brings on the tension for them. That's exactly what needs to be released, right? Who knows? You might get to the point at where uh, you know, let's I got a great idea. Let's make an intention to just be released of that thought, at least for this massage. Just be, oh, oh, what would it be like if that thought didn't exist? Uh let's let's let's hang out in that space for the next hour and a half or however long your massage is.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:49

I don't know. You know, it is something more fun than just agreeing.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:05

People start giving it more examples, more and more examples come. I remember when nothing's harder to get because it seems to cost more money. That's another thing. Nothing is harder for you to get because it seems to cost more money. That's not it. There's nothing for one, there's nothing that you can get. Like if you don't need it, you can't have it. And if you need it, you have to have it. It's more like that. If you have it, it's because you have to have it. Right? If you don't have it, you don't need it. One one fun saying that I heard, I think it's maybe it's from a Course in Miracles, not sure. But whatever the thing is that you think you need, you don't need. So it's like, the money I don't have is the money I don't need. The job I don't I don't have is the job I don't need. The person I don't have is the person I don't need. Whatever.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:39

It's a happy thought.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:42

Probably the word need and want are the same in that situation.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:49

You're saying the word need and want are the same in that situation?

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:53

Yeah, it's like people are like kind of making an excuse why they don't have something. They're saying it's because it costs too much, but maybe they just really don't want it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:05

Tony's saying they're they're saying they uh they don't they don't have something because they cost too much, but he's saying maybe they really just don't want it. You know, if it seems to cost too much, if there's any kind of um restriction that seems like you can't get to that thing, whatever it is, you're using that restriction. Sickness is one of them. You can't show up somewhere because you're sick. See, truthfully, you didn't want to be there in the first place. Otherwise, you would find yourself there. Because all the things that you seem to be doing, those are from a higher perspective, your choice. And what I mean by that from a higher perspective, it's like there's it's like there's a room where you're watching this whole thing go out go on, and from that perspective, you're not making any choices, but before that, everything is being orchestrated by you, and everything is exactly as you want it, everything is unfolding exactly as you would have it. And when you're consciously aware of that, which is coming down to your willingness in the moment to be consciously aware of it, that none of the meaning that you put on it means anything, and you're free. Free to rest in the peace of God, which is what you want. You want freedom of mind, not freedom of body. There's no such thing as freedom of body, really.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:17

So we must all inherently know that there's another meaning that's waiting to be revealed. In what way does this try to get our attention?

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:29

In what way does what the illusion?

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:31

No, the the inherent knowingness that it's like there there is another meaning that's trying. There's another meaning. No, it yeah, that other meaning must not be trying. It can't be trying. The real meaning, like God's meaning.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:51

Well, there's only one of us, there's only one mind. So it is when you say God's will for us is happiness, that's our true will. That's something that we learn really clearly, right? That is God's will, is our true will. So it's our true will to see clearly. That's why we're orchestrating everything we need in exactly the way we need it, so that we could see clearly, expeditiously, as expeditiously as possible. And it's still gentle, as gentle as we'll allow it to be, and fun too. We don't have to go looking for experiences, you know, it doesn't like we have to keep on seeking experiences. All the experiences are coming. You know, make uh sitting still and seemingly doing nothing else. You always seem to be doing something, right? Even if you're laying down, you're laying down. But that's like sitting or laying down and doing nothing else. Letting yourself be spoken to. Let's say be spoken to by the aspect of you that's all knowing. You know, constantly focusing on doing keeps you from hearing that what's been called the still small voice or the subtle voice. Because the mind's always, always talking and distracting. That's what entertainment is all about, all this entertainment, movies, sports, news, all this entertainment, and you can go online and find specified entertainment, and it's like nothing wrong with entertainment at all. Just notice when you're trying to distract yourself because there's something that you love and that nourishes you so much more than entertainment. It's like we're able to entertain ourselves numb. And so a lot of the times that's the case. TV's on just automatically, right? You get used to that sound of someone talking, something's going on. Oh, now that's happening over there. And it's as if you need to be informed so you guys could talk about what's going on over there. How much it costs, and how much, yeah, and how much, of course, how much things cost inflation, right? What this uh administration is gonna do that's good or bad.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:24

We get so many ideas from movies, too.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:28

Those we're just like feeding ourselves these worldly ideas, and you know, people just say say stuff like uh like this. Uh oh yeah, they're a product of their environment, right? Person's a product, no, they're not. That's like putting them in a box. It's like saying they're not all powerful mind. That's like saying that they're subject to something, right? And a lot of the times people use that for projecting guilt. It's like as if if the person would have had a better environment, they would no, but they're choosing their environment. Like making them so small. They're choosing their environment, including the parents, including what the parents seem to do. Give all the power back to there's one mind, so give all the power back to your mind. Don't let anyone be powerless in your mind. Because that's you making yourself powerless.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:03

People think they've been ruined by their conditioning.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:07

My conditioning made me like this. My conditioning made it so I can't have fun in this particular way. Like, let's say, um, I don't know, your parent maybe your parents did something mean to you that had to do with swimming, and now you can't have swim. Recognizing that that's meaningless changes everything. Why is it so meaningless? Because it didn't even happen, you're only projecting it right now, and you made a habit of projecting something that feels similar over and over again, so you can get the sense that you are a self, a separate self. That could be fun to get the sense that you're a separate self. When you know that you're just getting a sense of a separate self, it's a sense, it's not really the truth. Just because there's a sense that you're separate doesn't make it true.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:21

But the sense is strong. Okay, let's see. Got a question here.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:39

There seem to be things in the illusion, an amazing fragrance, a bird in flight, etc., that seem to help me remember who I am. This doesn't feel like distraction, right? And that's the way to use illusion, right? Not using it for distraction. What does it look like if you're uh using it for distraction? Okay, let's say you pick up an amazing fragrance, all of a sudden, you gotta know where that fucking came from. And you wanna reproduce it, and you want to bottle it, and you want to make sure you have it next to you for the rest of your life. You know, you're gonna look up movies where people enjoyed the same fragrance, and then you're gonna watch those movies, or you're gonna see a bird in flight, and you're gonna go. I gotta know what people call that bird.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:52

What's the label? Right. People used to ask me when I was in Hawaii, oh, what's that plant called?

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:05

You know, what's that? What's I don't know? I'm not a gardener.

unknown: 1:15:14

Right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:15

It's a need-to-know basis. If I start doing landscaping or something, what should I call you? Come up with your own names, right?

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:40

So it's just that contrast between what is known and then what is knowing it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:47

Tony's saying there's that contrast between what is known and what is knowing it. Okay, so you could say what's what's known is an illusion. What's knowing it is the truth, right? Uh that's that's really what's going on. What's in what can be known from this perceiving mechanism is illusion. And that's really the what the sorting out is like. It's just this is an illusion, this is an illusion. Ah, I can rest in the all-loving arms. I can just stay right here, resting in the all-loving arms, even if it seems like I'm running a marathon. It doesn't matter. I'm staying here, resting. Oh, you think you could just be completely carefree? Yes. Yes, completely carefree all the time. Glenn said, you just took things next level with seeing separateness as a benefit. Hooray! Woo! Yeah. Uh you know, if if your function is forgiveness and you set this thing up as the means to serving your function, you need shit to forgive. If no one's conditioning you to think you're separate, you got nothing to forgive. You might as well not even show up. And that just it doesn't happen, as far as I've seen, anyways. Who knows? Maybe it will at some point. Uh, where kids don't get conditioned, that just occurs. Man, my youngest son, he didn't go to school or anything. Me and his dad did our best not to condition him into worldly habits. It still occurs. There's still a sense of separation, there's still a sense of a world. Right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:09

And because that's what we want, that's what we dive into. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:24

Durgo says yay to the 100% helpful 100% of the time. Doesn't that just make it so easeful? You are always, that's the thing. You are always 100% helpful 100% of the time. So when you're asking, show me how to be helpful, or I'm saying, I'm just here to be helpful, and you're looking for that's you knowing. You so then you automatically know whatever it is, it's always helpful. See that? It's only when you forget that you're only here to be helpful that you seem to take action that in your mind are questionable as to whether they're hate they're helpful or not. And I'm here to tell you that even if you forget to ask and it's and you have that question, it's always helpful. But I'm not always propped up in your field saying these things to you. So you got to know it for yourself. When you perceive that there's any question as to whether your words, actions, or behavior, of course, another person's too, are helpful. It's because you tried to do something on your own in the first place. That doesn't mean it didn't turn out helpful. It just means it made a question in your mind about it. And the answer to that question is that you're 100% helpful 100% of the time. So you can come back. That's the atonement. It's just always coming back to the truth, it's coming back to everyone's innocent all the time. It's just that when there's a question about innocence in your mind, that's where you tried to do something as a separate self.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:36

That's all.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:37

Which means we're not in a state of forgiveness, that we're always in a state of forgiveness, that it's always naturally helpful.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:44

When you're you say when you're always in the state of forgiveness, you're always, I would say you're always naturally knowing that you're being helpful. See? So when your mind is forgiving, you're knowing that you're being helpful. Right? You're willing to be helpful, you're knowing that you're helpful. But you always are helpful because even when you're expressing delusion, that's exactly what you need, and everyone else needs it too.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:22

So you can always say, You're welcome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:34

Don't let the ego inform you as to how other people should be, because that's always covering up a thought about how you should be or how you should have been in that particular situation. When you seem to be pissed at a person, you're always underneath that, pissed at yourself, and that needs to be undone because there's no basis for it. But that seeing is right now, and you're recognizing what you prefer right now. That's not a problem, and it could make you a very happy learner in that respect. Glad that you're given the opportunity to recognize how you prefer to be in relating or any kind of situation. But what people tend to do is get down on themselves because of the way they've perceived themselves up till this point. And that's why knowing you're not the perception, the perception isn't true, the perception isn't you, is actually what it allows it to change.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:14

It actually changes your behavior.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:20

But it's not up to you to change your behavior, it's up to you only to see.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:29

And start using circumstances for what they're actually for.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:35

Start using circumstances for what they're actually for, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:39

Really joyous when you start getting a hint of that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:44

Actually using the circumstances, right? So you're put in a circumstance every day when people start conversations with you while you're doing massage. So that's fun. That's what the that's what's the fun thing about uh being around people and interacting with people to the ego. Fun is uh kind of like uplifting your self-image, propping up your self-image, right? Telling your story, getting their reaction, propping up your self-image. But when you see that you're only interacting for joining, it just becomes a lot more fun. And in that way, you can be used for joining. And that might not necessarily look like everyone likes you. Some people are gonna be uncomfortable, right? Because people like to hide. So some people are gonna be uncomfortable about stuff like that. You know what I do? I just meet them in gentleness. I I can recognize uh the uncomfort, and I just recognize that that uncomfort is actually a call for love, it's not a call to uh jab them or anything like that. And a lot of the times I'll see people even shift. All right, so it's like, oh, well, I'm not here to rip the fucking cover off people's eyes, you know, in a violent way. I'm not trying to do that. Sometimes I could be used in ways where it might look like that, especially at first. It might come out as a shock. Are you sure? What's wrong with you that you just said that? Once I just saw a couple of friends, and you know, and uh, and and they're walking into a restaurant, and you know, I know both of them, and I'm like, Oh, are you guys on a date? And the guy just goes, What is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:00

I'm like, what? Really?

SPEAKER_03: 1:26:13

It's like it it's little things like that. It's like, you know, when someone's afraid of being exposed, a lot of the times the spirit could automatically, and it's like for me, it's like automatic. I don't knowingly try to get someone exposed. It's kind of like more automatic. Something will, so I'm not like trying to press, press, press them, too. You know, go, oh, and let's let them have that experience, you know, notice that experience. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:47

It's a gentle way of saying what is your original face because everybody's presenting a vast, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:26:54

Tony's saying, you know, that kind of shocking energy. It's kind of like a gentle way of saying, what is your original face? Like before you came up with this image that was born, you know, it's it's kind of shocking because it exposes something. It's almost like the Holy Spirit uh uses me to expose the very thing the person is trying to keep under wraps. And I'm not even wise to that until after it occurs.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:29

I'm like, oh, that was a tender spot.

SPEAKER_03: 1:27:39

And and the thing about uh knowing that you're helpful, I don't even have a question onto like whether I should change or try to be more uh delicate or sensitive or anything like that. It's just letting things flow and letting the spirit work however the spirit works. And for me, That involves a lot of quiet. Just quiet. Letting, uh, letting the thoughts. What does quiet really look like? It's not stopping thoughts, it's letting the thoughts be the thoughts, but not trying to follow them, not trying to push them away, not making them right, and not making them wrong. There are certain periods where I'll have focused time, where the Holy Spirit is speaking and I'm listening intently and uh and writing stuff down. Right? And then there's other moments where the Holy Spirit is just with me in a way that's quiet without specifically pointing anything out, just a resting place, and that's where, for the most part, I prefer to remain all day, and it's easy to do because it could be accomplished within any kind of activity, even in the midst of entertainment. Like if you're used to having the TV on every day and you just gotta watch the news, let's say, even in the midst of that, you could take, let's say you watch the news for a couple of hours. I don't know. I think people do watch the news that long because I visit people sometimes and they sure just seem to have it on for a while, even though it seems to be the same stories repeating again and again. Um, you could just take five minutes of that just to watch your mind, what your mind is making, what kind of meaning your mind is putting on the things that they're talking about. That's what I'm that's what I mean. That's the quiet, because you're watching that from the place where it's quiet. When you're watching what meaning your mind is putting on the things you're perceiving, that's watching from the place of quiet. And when you keep doing that, five minutes is good. Uh, you might like it and go longer. When you keep doing that over time, you can see really quickly how to be in the quiet space that's beyond all the thoughts. Because just observing your thoughts in a way where you're looking what meaning you're putting on things, and recognizing that all of them have your body as the central figure, it just tends to get more and more subtle. You tend to be uh in relationship, knowing your relationship, you're always in relationship as the created. Let's say as the created, you're always in relationship with the creator. The parent relationships that you seem to have with the people uh in the field are not true relationships. There's only one relationship. These are uh, let's say, these are symbolic of that one relationship. And all these symbolic relationships, these imaginary relationships that seem to occur between bodies, can be harmonious for you. They can all be totally harmonious when you're recognizing that you're really only in relationship with your creator, who is actually who you are. That's why there's perfect love between you and your creator. You as the creator actually created the created to be in relationship with you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:21

You as the created are created to be in relationship with yourself. So that means you don't need any special relationships, you don't need any.

SPEAKER_03: 1:32:40

A special relationship is where you're in a relationship with someone for a perceived benefit. Worldly benefit, right? When you're in a holy relationship with everyone, you're relating with them with awareness that you have the same shared interest. That's a benefit to both of you. If anyone pisses you off, anyone seems to piss you off, you gave them a function that's different from the one God gave them. And then it looked like they didn't fulfill their function, but that was the function you gave them. They're always ful fulfilling the function God gave them. It's only an illusion that they're not. Look at it like this, too. You already fully fulfilled the function God gave you. You have forgiven the world. Okay, that's one way to look at it. And that's one of the lessons in A Course in Miracles. I have forgiven the world. Right? You have forgiven the world. It's already done. It's a replay. Because you still think you want to keep it in your sight, and this is very common. I hear people talk about it. How wanting to keep this world different ways, different sneaky ego-spiritual ways of wanting to keep this world that we made where everything seems to die, including the earth, apparently, including the sun, everything seems all right, wanting to keep it, and that you know, really where that comes from is a deep-rooted fear, believing you are in the void, believing you are already annihilated, and you give yourself this fear and give yourself this illusion to help you see through it, believing you are already annihilated and rushing, literally rushing to recreate heaven. All right, and that's what this world is it's a rush to try to recreate heaven. I mean a rush. I mean it's like this mind, a visual I get is like this mind just grabbing all these scraps of thoughts, pulling it together and making an imaginary world so it can distract itself from the fear of where it finds itself, which is nowhere. It doesn't even make sense. That doesn't even make sense, but that's what the mind is doing to itself. I mean, there's no way you're in a void. Just being aware that you're in a void, like you're not in a void. So there's a sense that you're in a void, and then running to uh to make a world to distract yourself. And that's why there's so many distractions. These are distractions from feeling. And see, the feeling, remember what I said earlier, that's just the first signal of your state of mind. That's the first symbol. You could say manifestation, also an illusion, not anything to be afraid of.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37:05

But the mind does become afraid of the feeling and wants to distract, and out of that extrapolate a world and all kinds of thoughts about the world, making meaning to try to avoid feeling, seeing that like crazy rushing is that sort of uh what like competition and the idea of hierarchy maybe came from that. So it's like oh there was oneness and then there was like separateness, so like the first the first one to get back there gets it or something.

SPEAKER_03: 1:37:51

I don't know, it seems like you're it's a whole scenario. Here's how it was shown to me, okay? Here's here's how it was shown to me, okay? It's it's like in the moment where there's the sense that there's just this void, they're just running to build a whole scene. Uh every scene is like this, it's not linear, it's not even linear. Every scene in the movie, it's like all these different scenes you can choose, they've all been played out. That's why you can just choose which one to jump into, which timeline to jump into, but you're not really jumping into it, you're still observing it from outside of all the timelines, still believing that you're separate. So here, where we're having a perception that we are on a timeline, this is what's bringing up over time. That's why it's over time, it's bringing up these scenarios where we made ourselves guilty and for willing to see it differently, we keep on taking that back, undoing the power that we gave to the sense of separation. But yes, it's necessary to have a sense of separation first before there's undoing the power that's been given to separation.

SPEAKER_05: 1:39:23

See?

SPEAKER_03: 1:39:26

And you know, a lot of that comes from a lot of that comes through pain, whether that's physical pain, sickness, emotional pain, uh, people seem like they're dying, relationships seem like they're breaking up, stuff like that, comes through experiencing pain. And it's like, why am I experiencing pain about something that means nothing? A body that means nothing. Why would you be pained about it showing up sick? You know, it's it's like, why would why would you be pained unless you were identified with it? Well, it's given to you, these different delusions are given to you so you can see past them. And you don't even have to learn through pain. That's not necessary. It's just that you're giving yourself so much pain in the way you're attacking in the mind. Those attacks are always felt physically. So any kind of pain, it doesn't matter what caused it. For me, any kind of pain arises, and I'm just like, I know that's a thought. I know that's caused by a thought. It's not caused by something else, it's not caused by something I did last night. Maybe I seem to have fallen. Um, maybe I seem to have some rough sex and now I'm sore down there. Anything. Okay. It's projected mentally. It does not have a cause in the world. And this is something we're we've been going over in our Course in Miracles deep dives, too. That it's really important to know this before we advance past where we are in chapter three. One of them that's really important to know is that cause and effect are in the mind. Okay, they don't come from the field. So any kind of way that you feel, it's not caused by anything that occurred. That's why, like, even when I'm talking about something, um, like recently I just got this new uh neck massager, which I really like. And also, it seems like uh the first time I used it, I ended up with chafing on my neck. But the way, the way I'll reference something like that is oh, I noticed this after I use that, but I'm recognizing that it's not there's there's nothing on a timeline at the same time as it might be coming out of my mouth or coming out of my mind, whatever. I'm recognizing that there isn't any timeline, any kind of irritation that I seem to feel is totally not caused by anything that I seem to do. So that's a that's a good example because it's recognizing that no, it's not because of the material. And even though, you know, I go, wow, I really like the way this feels. I don't really like the chafing, and okay. Um, and then so I put a silk pillowcase over it. I put a silk pillowcase over it and it seems to work fine. No more chafing, just the nice massage action. Um, so anything that arises for me, like even something that you might say is my mundane like that, I'm watching with with awareness that my mind makes all cause and effects. It's not really that that thing can even do the chafing that it so seems to have done. The seeming is so there, it but it's not really true. Okay, if that's not uh that's not the cause. The thing that seemed to occur in a timeline, not the cause of anything feeling tender or something like that. That's all projected now. All I do is recognize that, and so the power goes back to my mind, which is making all of these things in the first place, and I find myself with more and more ease. Everything that seems to befall me seems to be very minor. I mean, even to falling off of a cliff in 2022, right? It's like, yeah, it was a huge, like, okay. What am I not seeing that I'm projecting? But then at the same time, it was super gentle. Apparently, nothing is broken, there's uh nothing is infected, like it's just mellow. Apparently, there's a nice space for me to recover, apparently. You know, it's like everything is easeful, and and you know, also when I find myself at the bottom, um the first thing that comes to my mind is thank you.

unknown: 1:44:17

Right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:44:17

Let's everything go easefully. Screen food cannot affect screen, yummy. That's that's Glenn. That's right. That is a way I've said it many times. It's like this there's uh a screen, you're watching a screen, your life is like on a screen. So nothing on the screen actually affects your body. It only seems to, and you can't even find yourself doing anything that you don't need to have an experience of. So there's nothing to really be careful of here, except being careful of where your thoughts are going. That's all. And in that, what do I mean? I'm not on me to scare you, that's for sure. Being careful about it means being watchful. It's watching. That's all. You're watching. Instead of just believing unconsciously, instead of letting unconscious thoughts play in your mind without any oversight. The seeming that it seems is not really there. I love that. Yeah, thank you, Kalama. Uh and then that disappeared. Yes, it all it's it's all just a seeming illusion rising and passing away. And when it rises, you know, you can have fun with anything because nothing can affect you. It's like, oh, it's silly. Right? People are trying to symbolize, even like uh, like when I go, when I go out, a lot of times when I go out at night, I notice uh a kind of like symbolism that's symbolizing something fearful, right? Natalie and I noticed a woman with a shirt last night was talking about killing pedophiles with a with an actual noose on the shirt.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46:30

The back of the shirt said dead pedophiles don't re-offend.

SPEAKER_03: 1:46:35

Right. The back of the shirt said dead pedophiles don't re-offend. I was like, I gotta see what the front of this says.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46:44

Kill your local pedophile.

SPEAKER_03: 1:46:45

Yeah, the yeah, right. There is a noose that said, kill your local pedophile, too, right? Yeah, and then and then in that room where we were sitting, I don't know if you noticed, there were three uh uh kind of like scary, devilish faces with horns, all exactly the same. And I'm just kind of like, hmm, interesting symbolism, you know. But here's the thing about symbolism both the woman wearing the shirt, right? And the and the symbolic, you know, the the dark, dark characters, dark character masks on the wall, it's all meaningless. That's the thing. It's not like uh it's not like you have to embrace the dark because it's part of the light, something like that. It's meaningless. And you know, what I notice is there may be a thought that arises that somehow this is gonna affect my mind because it's dark energy, right? But that's not how it goes. The illusion also can't affect your mind uh without your consent. I'll tell you, there's lots of consent for it. There's lots of consent for the illusion affecting your mind. That's what's going on with people droning out with the entertainment, which I'm also calling sports and news and music and movies. Okay. This is all quote unquote entertainment. Okay. Uh, but it cannot do anything to you because nothing on the screen can uh can affect your mind. And I don't mean just the movie screen, I mean the screen of consciousness can affect your mind, but it can when you consent. And that's what's going on when you're using it as a distraction, when you're using it to avoid feeling, when you're using it to avoid stillness, see, and and the way it works for avoiding is this look, you get all excited about your sport team, right? And so your mind's running about your sport team, for instance. And then you're thinking about, well, what if this happens and what if this happens, and you're making distractions. I mean, unless that's your job and you're doing sports teams different, though. That's you know, showing up at work and people talk about the latest show, whatever show they're watching, and this happened and this happened and this happened. And everyone just normalizes us using entertainment to avoid feeling. Another way of entertainment is looking up conspiracy theory stuff. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do, I'm not saying it's bad to get entertainment. Actually, I like looking up some of that stuff, it's fun for me. Um, but it's entertainment. That's all it is. And it doesn't end up getting used to suppress feelings when you're noticing what it actually is and what it's how is it, how is it useful? How is it helpful? See, anything could be helpful because the Holy Spirit can use any kind of experience, any kind of behavior, anything for awakening at your election, though. The one who has to elect that. So if you're if you're finding yourself watching shows and wondering, am I distracting myself? Notice where your mind is going. Notice what meaning is being made. What happens after you watch a particular show? I mean, I noticed uh one of my friends had me watch a show because he thought my shows are stupid. You know, I like stuff like white chicks, you know, like that movie white chicks. It's like silly slapstick comedy kind of stuff. He's like, I'm gonna put on a I'm gonna put on a smart comedy. Well, this smart comedy started with torture, a torture scene. And what I noticed with the torture scene, I'm like, whoa, that's not something I'm interested in even watching. That's intense, man. You know, that's still I just use it as spiritual practice because I'm recognizing I chose this, right? I chose this right now. Okay, so why am I choosing it? What is it for? Okay, for feeling forgiveness, you could say, let's say the atonement, recognizing that nothing here means anything, nothing here is true. So I could experience the nervous system, the apparent nervous system reaction to the torture, right? To the apparent torture. And notice it gives me some insight. Oh, this is what people are doing to themselves every night to get into this mode again where we feel like torture is occurring. Our mind doesn't know the difference between watching torture on us on a movie screen and perceiving torture, it's uh it becomes a tortured mind. Like you keep on paying attention to stuff like that. Still, the Holy Spirit can use it. So you could keep on watching your favorite shows. I'm not saying you you gotta put anything away. Um, still, the Holy Spirit can use it. Notice the nervous system reaction, and you'll see why you keep on being drawn to those shows. That nervous system reaction is projecting a feeling that you'd rather not feel. So it's as if it's the torture, it's not the torture, it's just projecting a feeling. So for me, when I get the feeling, I just experience that and notice what kind of habits are being played out. It's super fun. And I didn't find myself watching another one of those. Oh my goodness, it was ridiculous. Ridiculous. I like my I like my entertainment mostly comedy. Yeah. Slap my stick, white chick. Must be Glenn. Okay, Glenn.

SPEAKER_02: 1:52:50

You're fucking great.

SPEAKER_03: 1:52:56

Glenn, when are you coming over? Aren't you close to here?

SPEAKER_01: 1:53:02

Canadian or something?

SPEAKER_03: 1:53:03

Yeah, he's Canadian. Playing music occurs differently, but is a distraction. Okay. Nice. Yes. And a lot of the music, it's funny. Uh, it's another symbolic thing. It's tuned to 440, which is apparently a little bit, just a little bit dissonant. So it it like irritates, a little bit irritating. Isn't that fun? Apparently, that's the situation. Of course, still, music doesn't do anything to you. It's never like that. That's why I could find myself in any kind of seemingly dissonant situation. And I'm happy to be there because I know it's what it's, I know what it's for. I know what it's for. I'm like, oh, good thing I'm here. Wow, this whole thing seems very demonic. They seem to be worshiping idols, very dark, talking about death. Oh, good thing I'm here. There's like 200 people, you know. Glad I'm here.

unknown: 1:53:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:53:58

And it and there's a genuine sense of just beaming light. And and and and that's the purpose of wherever you find yourself, anywhere, anytime. Okay, let's see. I seem to fall into a vibration in stillness or meditation. What a nice place to fall. I love it. Ah, yes, yes. And then you said, like not mine. I'm not that sure what that's about, but uh, yeah, that's your true essence. That calm stillness, not needing anything, not going anywhere anywhere, not wishing for anything. Okay, you guys. Yay, I had such a fun time today. And I'll will be back. The plan is for me to be back. If something does change, I will notify on uh what is it? Zoom. So go to Zoom. Zoom, if you're not on Zoom, it's easy to sign up. bitly b-i-t.ly forward slash love is one. That's where you sign up for Zoom. I do plan to be back on Wednesday with an ACIM deep dive, but I don't know. Things seem to be changing all the time, so I'll let you know. Um, if not, I'll be back after February 5th to continue with you. I'm so stoked. Thank you so much for joining. I love you so much. You'll be there, you're gonna be there in the AM packing 10 pounds of bacon. Okay, Canadian bacon, Canadian bacon. I don't like Canadian bacon though. It's too low fat. All right, you guys, until next time, go to hope johnson.org. Mahalo, aloha, and a hoo-e-ho.

SPEAKER_00: 1:55:55

Woo! Headed for Hawaii.