Seeing Beyond Linearity | Wisdom Dialogues @ Lake Whatcom | April 5, 2026

A livestream cuts out, a glass suddenly splits in half, someone hears the word “cancer” from a doctor and the mind immediately tries to build a prison out of it. We sit with all of it and ask a sharper question: what if the disturbance isn’t the event, but the thought of separation behind the event?

From Lake Whatcom on Easter Sunday, we talk candidly about A Course in Miracles, Holy Spirit guidance, and what “forgiveness” looks like when life doesn’t match the plan. We move through money and survival anxiety, donation-based living, and the reflex to secure our position in the world. Then we bring it into relationships: disappointment, need-meeting fantasies, and the relief of seeing that your needs are met in the now. Forgiveness doesn’t mean you comply, stay, or keep the peace on the surface. It means you stop giving the ego’s story the power to define you.

We also get very practical about nervous system healing and spiritual practice. Gratitude becomes a real-time tool, from speaking lovingly to water before drinking it to noticing how movies, news, and “entertainment” can program attack and fear right before bed. We challenge diagnosis culture, not to be reckless, but to expose how quickly the mind signs contracts with fear. And because it’s Easter, we bring it home to resurrection as a symbol: guilt undone means suffering is not required, and time can collapse through true miracles.

If this conversation helps you breathe again, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s spiraling, and leave a review so more people can find these ACIM teachings on forgiveness, healing, and waking up. What’s one “problem” you’re ready to see differently today?

Transcript

Aloha From The Lake

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Aloha, and welcome to Wisdom Dialogues with Hope Johnson on Easter Sunday, apparently. Yay! Coming to you from Lake Whatcombe, Washington. Ah, when I just say that, I just like, ah, I love it. I love being here. If you're looking at this right now, this image behind me is how it looks in front of me. Oh, only it's always changing and always looking awesome. And oh, I've been just so loving just staying sitting right here, looking at the water, looking at these waves sometimes, glass sometimes, uh, noticing the thoughts that I wouldn't normally notice because I'm just like here with my thoughts, you know, like and what I notice is I've even slowed down on doing posts, like written posts. I'm just like in a almost like a period of being more inward, you know. I even get like these little uh these little nudges, do something, do something, do something. And then I'll go, hmm, I'll check in on that. And the guidance is like just smile at the do something and let it just be done. Because that's how um it's kind of unfolding for me that I'm just totally living that way, being in the moment, recognizing that things are not linear, they are not linear at all. See, that's why I can relax into the moment because there's nothing to disturb my peace. There's just no thing that's going to come in and change things for me in a way that anyway that could disturb my peace. It just can't occur, right? Things are very changeful for me. I have no kind of stability in the world. There's nothing in my outer world that seems like it's stable in like a material sense, the way you would say, like that, you know. Um, it's all moment to moment. So I I like to explore. I explore realms, I don't do anything, I don't do anything. I perceive myself doing things while I'm exploring realms. That's what happens. I don't actually do anything, so I'm not um attached to the thing that I seem to do. So from time to time, I found myself trying out different ways. I've seen, oh, you could make money this way easily. Maybe it'll feel good, you know. Like I tried out real estate, I've tried out various things that I've found online, and I'll actually go down the path. It's just that I don't need to do any of those other ones that I've tried out since real estate nearly as in-depth or as long as real estate, but there seemed to still be these, there seemed to be these remnants of the pattern coming up. The pattern like I need to be in charge of my own supply and security, right? This pattern, like I need to do something to make sure that I have a constant supply in the world. For instance, a supply of money. Like for me, I don't have uh any kind of self-generated, like as would be perceived in the world, form of income. It's all donations, like any donations uh can change or fluctuate at any time, right? It's a and it's not like I have like a reserve to draw on or something like that, which I love to experience that kind of circumstance just because I love to demonstrate what's actually true in the midst of that. Right. And it's really, I don't demonstrate it to anyone. I'm over here by myself, apparently. I'm never alone because you know, uh, it's like I could always hear the Holy Spirit's voice. That's basically it's integrated to the point where I feel like it's my own voice, there's no separation in that. Um, it's like I am that the Holy Spirit's voice is in my mind, it's a matter of accessing that voice, not asking someone else, not the kind of vibes of asking someone else to show me. Right. But it might be that I get the sense that I need someone else to show me because I feel like I I don't know. I feel separate from the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

That's where I would ask the Holy Spirit until I feel like the Holy Spirit again.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

But you know, the more this is seen, like what we're doing is we're seeing. That's all it is. We're uh we're it's like we're purifying our sights, we're we're removing the blocks to uh Christ's vision, you could say being the light, because we are automatically the light, whether we perceive that or not, whether we're allowed to shine in the glory of what's true, or we're projecting illusions, right? That depends on our willingness. How much of that uh light, or you could say the love of God, are you willing to let through in the moment, right? And that doesn't have to do with anything that's material, it's not saying it's supposed to look a certain way, it's a tone or a or a vibe. See, it's a it's a sense of gratitude or a sense of ingratitude, you could say. All right, so it's like let's say you have children, and you seem to be annoyed or upset by something that they do, right? Recognizing that you're not really upset by the thing that they do, and you know that's just really simple. It's just a a reasonable thought because it's actually true. All upsets come from the set the sense of separation, it does not come from anything anyone does, so it's just giving you the opportunity to love them as they are. That's an inner movement.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

That's not something that you have to prove.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

You know, just being willing to see them as a gift and you know, a savior. One way to look at it is all of our brothers and sisters are actually our saviors. You know, they're showing us where we can be released more to allow more freedom, and our freedom is their freedom, so it's their release, so it's everyone wants this for us. See, when we look at people in terms of they're a benefit or a threat to my ego, right? Then we can't be authentic with them because automatically there will be this thing that either wants to push away something that seems to be a threat or keep something that seems to be a benefit, and that blocks our being able to relate authentically, and what are we relating authentically with, anyways? You could say we're relating with our heart, with our own heart, right? And all of our brothers and sisters, they're in our own heart. See, that's the relationship that we're really having, and a lot of the times our brothers and sisters are gonna be talking nonsense to us because they're coming from fear, right? So our goal isn't to dress up their nonsense and make it look like it's like something valuable, it's just to look past that, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Recognize that it is nonsense and look right past it, and then enjoy the play.

SPEAKER_04 9:49

You don't have to decide what you're gonna say to them or anything like that. You uh you just be an enjoyment of the play. Oh, isn't that fun? That's cute. I had one friend call me today. I enjoy her so much, she's so cute. So I answered the phone and she's silent. And I go, So are you living in joy right now, or are you listening to stupid ass thoughts that are making you feel bummed out? You know, like that. Then I hear her start crying. I'm like, okay, I got it. Okay, I okay, you're listening to stupid ass thoughts, and you're doing awesome. That's the other thing. You're always doing awesome. You know, it's like your listening to stupid ass thoughts is manifesting the exact feeling that you uh want to get from stupid ass thoughts because you don't want to keep on pursuing them, it's not gonna help you. So, two women in the past couple days have contacted me about men just not meeting them the way they want to be met. Okay, it's like, yeah, one of them, one of them, the guy, the guy uh wouldn't fuck her to sleep. I guess that's a thing that they do, fuck each other to sleep. Okay, I know it's fun, I love it.

Christ Vision And Seeing Past Fear

SPEAKER_05 11:21

So like what you're just like in it and everything, and then all of a sudden you're all right.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

So, so uh yeah, so it turns out to be like a whole big thing where he's not meeting the needs, and you know, that's a thing. There's this fear that our needs aren't gonna be met. And what is really true is that our needs are met in the in the now, in the moment. Our needs are met. The sex I do not get is the sex I do not need. See that? You know, if I get the sense that, okay, this guy, he does not have the same kind of sex drive that I do, then it's like probably over. But that doesn't mean he's bad or I'm gonna start crying about it, probably, unless I'm like, man, I loved him so much. I was so into him, but he just did not want to fuck as much as I did. You know, it's like it's not a big failure, right? This is not a big failure, it's just it's basically showing you, okay, I don't want the I don't want it this way. I don't want it like this. Speaking of failure, I noticed that the video just failed on Substack. Apparently it says it's uh it has ended. So uh Substack people, I don't know what to tell you about that. I seem to be following all the directions perfectly.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

I don't know how it ended, but I'm sure everything is working out as planned.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

There's some comedy at play there, yeah.

Needs Met Now In Love And Sex

SPEAKER_04 13:28

So so let's let's look at something like that where something doesn't seem to work out in the way that it seems like you want it to work out, right? So anything like that, that's basically that's a problem. That's a problem. You don't want it to work out like that. I didn't want it to work out like that. I wanted to go live on fucking Substack. I announced that I was going live a few minutes before I went live. Everyone got an email, and then with when they came on to watch it, I don't think that many people actually come on, but when they came on to watch it, if they did, it's ended. Right? So notice that all problems in the world are stemming only from the thought of separation. So it's noticing that any any feeling, and that's just natural for feelings to arise because you know there's a sense, there's it's not like it's an intense feeling, like, oh god damn it. But it's like it's just like there's a feeling of uh slight, let's say slight disappointment, right? And slight doesn't matter, heavy, slight, whatever doesn't matter. It's the same to me. You know, I might feel it stronger, like whoa, but it's really it's the same. So recognizing that the sense of disappointment, whatever the feeling is, that it didn't do as I wanted it to do, is a reflection of the sense of separation. It's uh it's that idea that we separated from our source, that's all it is. So then you can let the illusion be the illusion. It could just be the playful illusion. You're recognizing where the apparent problem and disappointment is coming from. It's just the thought of separation. Nothing's wrong with Substack, it's not time to do anything, nothing needs to be done about it. It's just the thought of separation. So that just happens automatically. So these things don't uh don't become uh bothersome. It's just a matter of it does, it's it's for healing, it's for forgiveness. This is what it's for, this is what I'm gonna use it for whenever it comes up. And it's automatic. At this point, it's automatic. So there's a lot of listening to the Holy Spirit, like with everything, even little things like that. You know, I've asked. That's why I'm sharing with you. I've asked, you know, a lot of the times people don't ask on something like that, right? I've asked, what is that? Right? Holy Spirit, what is that? It's like, and then and then sit with it and be like, oh, I don't even have to really sit with it, for instance, just keep being in the moment, whatever that looks like. And the dawning of these realizations just come. It's like, oh, I could see it this way. And the more I see it the way it actually is, what I'm doing is I'm seeing things the way they are rather than how they're presented to me. Even the patterns that I see, the reason I need to look at patterns in the first place and see what the patterns are. This this is something that occurred to me recently, too, is when I was going through heartbreak and exploring all those different patterns, that's very mental. And my natural way is to be super emotional, right? So the mental aspect of recognizing these patterns kind of like comes in and softens the emotions, the realization of oh, these are these trains of thought all wrapped up. No one's doing them, but we do them by participating. So I just withdrew my participation in those patterns when I can see them clearly the withdrawal of the participation is automatic because you could see them and you're like, ew. Especially when I saw that, wow, one of those patterns, at least one of them, showed I was shown how it plays into a larger pattern that has to do with sex trafficking and shit that we see in the world. And I was like, Oh, I don't care how much I want that dick. That's not happening. Right? It's like, no, I'm not playing that anymore. And you know, there's a there's also a point in the mind because of being pulled, the temptation, the pull to succumb to, oh God, this sucks. This is how dudes are now, this is how it is now, coming to conclusions, all that kind of stuff, right? And seeing what the pattern is, recognizing what the pattern is, and how I've played into that pattern unknowingly. Like before my husband, it's like my husband came and fucking saved me from playing that pattern over and over again, all through my 20s, 30s, and 40s. I would have played the shit out of that thing. Yeah, not because I didn't know. Right? It's just like you're hopeful again and again. This is your Prince Charming. He's coming to save you. And then the next thing you know, he's playing uh uh typical male wounded patterns with you, right? And you're and you're feeling drawn. Like for me, I was like floored in love. I've never felt like that before. It was the happiest feeling and the most painful feeling in the same dynamic. It was such a trip. So it's like that's what I needed, though, to pull my mind into this realm that I did not see like this before. I have not seen how this it's like a realm. This is a realm that supports these larger patterns that we're seeing on the news and shit like that. For instance, hearing about stuff like that, sex trafficking, slavery, all different stuff like that. We basically get enslaved by these dynamics. Okay. So this feeling of disappointment. I've been playing with this feeling of disappointment, uh, of you know, of a person that's you know, not living up to whatever. I mean, one of the guys that I'm seeing who I'm going to spend time with in Mississippi, he is not deep spiritually at all. He's not like trying to resist it or anything, he's just doesn't get it. He'll go, oh, okay, and he'll smile. And you know, it'll be back to like cutesy kind of play talk and stuff like that. And it's like it feels good to hang out with him. He's really sweet. He likes it's really likes to take care of me. He's super loving. Like, it doesn't need to go anywhere for the moment. In the moment, this feels good. At first, there was a disappointment, you know. It's like, oh gosh, he's not like he's not deep. So, but it wasn't like automatically reject that guy. It's just like feel that disappointment, notice that's telling you this is not what you thought you wanted, really. And I don't know what I want. That's why I'm saying it like that. This is not what you thought you wanted, but it's not gonna hurt to explore this more, you know. It might be really fun to just explore physically with a person and not have zero, uh, you know, and and spiritual depth too is beyond just like intellectual and words and things like that. You know, it's like some people read and some people just some people talk and some people have deep conversations. I'm more in that realm where I talk and I like to uh have deep thoughts. Yeah. But for some people, they just feel this. Sense of knowing, and they don't need to be meeting on that level, you know. You can just relax and be with them, and that's what I'm exploring right now. And of course, when I'm over in Mississippi, never been there before, it's gonna be fun. Yeah, I'm guessing there's dancing, maybe there's gonna be some blues, stuff like that, so that'll be eventful. And then when I come back, a few days after I come back, or a week or something, Billy is coming back, and he's gonna be staying here a little bit. So I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Is he getting his heart done?

SPEAKER_04 22:47

Not right now, but he's on a list, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

So, yeah, like I said, I love how I just don't mind what occurs as far as how my life unfolds because it's just so exciting. It is, I love that, it is so exciting, and I and I was saying now I feel so grateful about my husband coming in, my husband Tony, for 30 years, and it was kind of I really wanted that. Like, I didn't even consider other men for for uh until the end. And then boom, I was considering more than considering very quickly.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

You're easily persuaded.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

I was easily persuaded, yes, I was, yeah, but but I went into that so willingly because there is this sense of secure security and being shielded from that kind of energy. Oh my gosh, I just got a sense of excitement because I remembered you're taking me out to dinner, like right in the middle of my sentence.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

And it was so nice that like my heart just went like Yeah, let the let the inspiration arrive. It's so fun to it, you know what's so funny, uh to to to forget about it and then remember it again, and then you like get really excited. And you know what? The funny thing is on top of that, is it doesn't even matter if it happens, like at the end of wisdom dialogue, she should she could totally go out.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

You know what? Hope you kind of pissed me off in wisdom dialogue today.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I'm not taking you, and well, it will still have been great fun because I got to have that experience.

When Tech Fails Use Forgiveness

SPEAKER_06 24:59

See what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 25:04

It's because there's no there's nothing linear back to that. Maybe that's the name of this one because that's been coming up for me a lot. There's nothing linear about this, it's in the moment, and you know, it it brings me back all the way to when I first started hearing about uh new age stuff. It was Abraham Hicks, right? And one of the things they would say is what we want you to do is suck all the juice out of the moment that you can. That comes back to me right now. I'm like, yes, yeah, yes, I get it. I get it way more what they're saying to us about suck all the juice out of the moment. It's the same as be released from all of your burdens so that the light of love and joy can come through you and infuse all your cells, right? It's a matter of, it really is a matter of gratitude or ingratitude. And here's something you can start doing today. This is really easy and fun. Uh, every time you get any kind of liquid, and it's just for fun, right? Anytime you get any kind of liquid, speak to it. Speak lovingly to it before you drink it. It's symbolic. You know what? You know what that has shown me in uh in a really short time, too. Holy shit, that's how everything is. It needs our gratitude, liquid or not, right? But you can play around like this and do this with anything liquid, right? You've heard of those uh emoto, I believe it's Dr. Emoto things about snowflakes and water and how it turns into beautiful or ugly, depending on how it's spoken to. Well, that's just one symbol. That's everything, every single thing in the perception is made of particles that you are in command of. Okay, that's how they actually the the particles that uh can be measured in the in this world, those particles, those don't even count. They're effects of particles that you're in command of. You see that? So your gratitude or ingratitude. And this is what you know, a Course in Miracles talks about giving is receiving. What is the giving? What are you giving? Look at it like this: I'm giving gratitude. True, authentic gratitude is immediately received back to you. It's like you're charging yourself with this amazing power that is not, cannot be controlled by the ego. This power cannot be controlled by the ego. You know why? Because to access it, you have to be released from the ego to even access this.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

It is ineffable.

SPEAKER_07 28:16

Ineffable. What does ineffable mean to these when Wayne was here? The word came up, and you're like, oh, it must be it can't be effed with. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. If it's ineffable, it must not be able to be effed with. Yes, it must be the case. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

So people have been telling me they've had cancer, they have cancer. One of them was my mom. It was so fucking cute, too. You know, she's like, Hope you won't believe it. There's cancer all over me. I'm constantly getting things cut out. The doctor took some out of my calf and I'm pissed because he hell he left a scar. And I'm like, mom, how could you possibly have cancer? Hope they've tested it and it's cancer. And I go, I know, but you were not created like that. That's not how you're created. It's kind of like you're popping them up, you're propping them up in your mind to tell you that you're not how you're created. You're something else now. And you're saying, you're saying it. You're saying, I have cancer all over myself. You're agreeing. This is an agreement. It's like a contract between you and the doctor. Let's pretend you're dying of cancer and we need to cut shit out of you. How many surgeries can we do? All right, you start getting your shit cut off. Let's cut over here and get another cut over here and another cut over here. You know, you got to realize these fuckers are kidding. They're kidding you. You know, a proper way to approach this, if you feel fearful, you know what is great for fear? Laughter. Oh my gosh. It just brings it to the surface. It's beautiful. If you feel feel fearful, and here's how you know you feel fearful, you're going over to the doctor to get some of his or her concepts, which are based on fear.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

So laugh about it. Let's just start, just go ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

SPEAKER_07 30:36

Are you fucking kidding me?

SPEAKER_04 30:43

It's kind of like even if you don't say this to them, just recognize it within in yourself. Are you fucking telling me that you believe those tests? Who made those tests? We made these tests up, you know. I I came over. It's funny, it's a comedy show. It's like I'm coming over to you for help to get rid of my sickness using sickness. What are we doing? This is fucking hilarious. Right? We're gonna use some more sick thoughts that say we're not as God created us, okay. You have this.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

How about you don't bother with stupid ass tests?

SPEAKER_04 31:40

How about that? Right? Well, how do how do we get to that? How do we get to bothering around with stupid ass tests that don't mean anything? They give you some markers that are made up, make-believe markers, right? So my mom goes, what do I do? And I go, well, look at the thoughts that are arising that are telling you that you have cancer in your mind. Those are basically what you would consider demons. Which, if you listen to Jesus, he's saying you have all power to command those demons to retreat, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Get thee behind me, Satan.

Heartbreak Patterns And Waking Up

SPEAKER_04 32:38

It just doesn't really mean anything anything. What's happening though, especially with disease, we've been programmed and trained to keep believing it over and over and over again that thoughts are occurring 24-7, especially after you get a diagnosis telling you uh that now you have this. You're concretizing that disease in your mind. Instead of letting yourself be released from it, you're saying, I have it, I have it, I have it.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yeah, so preoccup when your mind is preoccupied, there's like no room for those true thoughts that you're thinking of God to have any space. That's right. Yes, you're looking for preoccupation. Woo!

SPEAKER_04 33:34

Yeah, I I go, I go, Mom, you do not have to get anything cut off yourself, and she's like, Really? Because I hate it. Yeah, I go, yeah, and those those uh she calls them sis. She does has has had sis removed, they just cut and remove these siss. I go, you just need to massage those five, you don't need to get them cut out, right? It's like all this time is going toward trying to attain in the world. That's what's going on. It's like all this trying to attain in the world and not just being in a relaxed state with what is, you know, get some relaxation. This is tension showing up in the body sense. All this stuff you could say it's all tension, cancer, cis, anything like that. So, yeah. So my mom's like determined to see it differently, at least for some of the time. At least for a moment. And you know, it's just that little bit that you're willing to give. You're not ever getting it wrong. Like if you're not willing, you know, thinking, oh, I'm not willing to give enough. Just give whatever you can in the moment. Remember, it's not linear. You just seem to have this progression in time where your willingness is growing and growing and growing. And you know, that's really you could say all that's going on that's important is your willingness is growing. Nothing that's even happening is important, it's just your willingness growing.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Yeah, again, those two different ways to look at the world. Cancer is the ego thought growing. And then, yeah, what if you let your willingness grow? Right.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

Yeah, a cancer is a cancer is an infection in the mind, and it seems to happen in old age. There's no age really, apparent old age, because the thoughts are more conditioned, they've had more time to express themselves over and over and over again. So it becomes more believable that sickness, some some of these sicknesses are going to arise, and it becomes inevitable based on the thinking patterns that this is just what happens. It's not just what happens. None of this stuff that we don't want, like sickness, aging, and death ever happens.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

We get a perception that something's happening, and then believe in it. But that doesn't make it true.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Convinced and persuaded I like this week.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

Convinced and persuaded. Yeah. Or being convinced and persuaded. This is real, and there's nothing I can do about it. See, there's everything. You're you're you are everything. Okay, so when you're aware that you are everything and the only thing you need to do is respond, look how easy everything is. And then you may seem to slip up. That doesn't mean that you didn't learn what you learned, though. This is just part of the undoing. You're seeing again. Oh, okay. Oh, there's that pattern. Okay. No, I don't like that. I don't need to follow that habit of thought, that way of thinking about myself.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Just doing what feels good.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

And, you know, when you're allowed to allow yourself to think with the Holy Spirit, you're thinking then according to what feels good. And when what I notice is myself just feeling so sensual, it's so amazing. You know, I don't even have, I haven't even been having any sex, not even with myself. Like in the beginning, I had, uh I'm like, oh yeah, okay. I don't have any kids here. I don't have a husband. I'm gonna get a bunch of different sex toys. I'm gonna play with some vibrators, mess around with that a little bit. And I was like, oh, this is great. And then I was like, eh, okay. That's not happening anymore. Um, and I got into the uh cervical wand, which I used a couple times and I loved it. It's fascia release inside of your canal, so I'm like in there getting shoulder releases, not very sexy.

SPEAKER_07 39:26

I wasn't getting super turned on because I'm having shoulder releases.

SPEAKER_05 39:37

Oh my god.

Gratitude Practice With Water

SPEAKER_04 39:39

But you know, that seems to be the thing right now. My shoulders really seem to be unwinding right now, and a lot of the times when I feel them unwinding, I'm having these revelations. It's like, whoa, okay, that's uh it's almost like it clicks right in there. It's like, oh yeah. Uh, but anyways, I haven't even been getting into that in the past couple weeks or so, but I just notice all my skin is just feeling alive, like it's really sensual, and like constantly feeling my nipples getting hard. I love that feeling. It reminds me of when I was just 21 and I started gambling. I started going to Vegas from Orange County, and I loved these, I loved these blackjack tables. Back then they were a dollar minimum to play blackjack. You could like take a hundred bucks and party all night with free drinks, right? So you're having fun. And oh my goodness, I had a bunch to drink, and at some point I got super tuned into where I was psychic. Okay. I knew how much to bet, and I knew when I was gonna win, and I knew when I was gonna lose. And you know what told me? My nipples.

SPEAKER_06 40:54

That was really I was tuned in like that to the spirit through my nipples. I mean, it could do it, it could do it anyway.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

And I was really drunk too at the time, so I would be like, Oh my goodness, my nipples are hard again. Okay, and I'd put more money on the table. Like I'm like saying it because I I was like had no filter. It doesn't, I don't really need to be drunk to do that, but um that was winning and winning and winning, and I was I just walked away from the table and went home. We didn't even sleep. I stayed up all night, won a bunch of money, and I'm like, that was so weird. My nipples were telling me when to bet more.

SPEAKER_05 41:51

What the heck?

SPEAKER_04 41:55

And it's like it's not like I was trying to bring it on, I had no idea. I just noticed, you know, it's like I I'm over here gambling and I'm like, wait a minute, is there a pattern?

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Is there is there a correlation between my nipples lighting up like that and what's gonna happen in the game? Like, does my body know before I know? And that's what happened.

unknown 42:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 42:26

So weird. It's like you enter these realms. I never went back to that again. I have been at the black check table many times and I haven't had that experience again. But you know, everything's so so symbolic, it's just really fun.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Caitlin said that is comedy. It's like out of the movie Mean Girls when she says her boobs can tell her the weather. That's fun.

SPEAKER_04 42:55

Yeah, now I just notice they're they're like, it's like it's like they're alive. It's like it's almost like there's this tingly aliveness. And you know, it's like the reading that's coming to me right now is just telling you, you're winning all the time now. You don't need to be at a blackjack table. You're winning all the time because you see through everything people don't see through. Look at the people in the world. When I get on the road and go in my car, I'm I'm in a state of of bliss and relaxation. People are on their way to do things that they think they have to do. Right? They think they have to do something. Right now, right? And I didn't at first either until I started to see and saw it big time. You know, that really unfolded for me last year. It was, oh no, now it's been uh it's been like a year and a half. That was actually the end of 2024. It was like, ooh, That's what a revelation is. It's like you just know something and that's it. You fucking know that now. Right. It just became known to me that these thoughts about needing to secure my position in the world are done. And I don't have to have any proof. I don't need any proof that I that I can do that, that I'm allowed to do that. I don't need any proof. You know, like the ego will come in and say, well, what if your donations run dry or you just don't get enough donations to keep on doing this? What are you gonna do? And it's automatically just like, oh, it's gonna be presented to me whatever it is I need to do. And it's gonna be presented to me, and I'll know what it is by the way it feels in my energy field, or you might say, to your nervous system, right? Since God's will for us is perfect happiness, it's gonna feel like God's will for me. Whatever it is that I need to do in the moment is just gonna, okay, not only feel like God's will for me, but also it's gonna be done for me. There's nothing for me to do. All I do is lean into recognizing what is God's will for me and what isn't God's will for me. It's really simple. It's a joy factor. See how easy that is? It's a joy factor. It's not a it, it's it's not taking even into consideration what the world thinks. Or you could say what you learn to think with the ego. What's the most secure? See? So when I was probably around 22, I was going to get a job, and this was uh this was driven by a total belief I needed to secure my place in the world. So I was looking for a job because I was with Tony too, and he was like, You don't have to have a job, you just won't have as much money, and I'm like, well, fuck that. No, I'm having money. No, we're not gonna get into that.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

No, I have seen enough of that where you bring in the money and then you fucking boss me around and my life sucks a big dick. No, that's not happening.

Cancer Stories And Laughing At Fear

SPEAKER_04 46:36

Anywho, I had a choice between two jobs. One of them was uh was this person who had uh like an entertainment company and I could make a lot of money really fast. Um, and we weren't quite sure what it was, and he was a little bit of a perv. He seemed like he probably wanted to get with me. And the other one was a law firm. It would pay only$8 an hour. The guy who uh who hired me, the the main attorney at the off at the office, zeroed turv vibes, vibes toward me at all. Not at all. He was way too occupied with ego kind of stats and all that kind of stuff to even get into that. He was way too occupied. I don't think he was doing that with anyone. Uh, anyways, I asked my father-in-law at the time, I go, I got a choice between these two jobs, you know, like which one would be the best choice? And you know, he was always real logical in the world, and he said, the one that pays$8 an hour and it's steady, and you know you're gonna have a secure, steady income. Well, I took that and I, and you know, at that age, I was just 22 at the time, and I go, no, that's not really what I want to feel into. I just could just tell. I didn't really want to uh I want to have fun. What am I gonna do that? I'm gonna have fun. Well, I ended up working for the guy who wasn't a perv and um really just wanted a file clerk, did not want a paralegal, which I was. He wanted a file clerk, and I liked his personality. First of all, he's sat back in his chair and he goes, So what are you gonna do for me?

SPEAKER_02 48:29

And I'm telling you, he was not a perv. He was not talking that way at all. He was totally like, How is my money paying you eight bucks an hour gonna fucking uh make my company sore? And I go, and and I go, well, I'm the best fucking paralegal you've ever seen.

SPEAKER_04 48:49

And here I am, like babyface 22 years old, right? I'm the best fucking paralegal you've ever seen. He's like, I don't need a paralegal, I need a file clerk. And I'm like, I don't fucking care. You're gonna see I'm the best paralegal. So I wanted to play with that energy.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Right?

SPEAKER_04 49:06

It's like, and and it ended up it ended up being like also from a logical perspective, the more stable of the two to of the two as well. And it it ended up uh being something where I stayed in that position for like six years. I'm still friends with his wife. I'm friends, I'm friends with him too. I'm I'm friends, yeah, it's been a long time.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

Yeah, it's a really long time.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

22, six years is a long time.

SPEAKER_04 49:32

Yeah, like I said, things aren't linear. It's just you know, you know, you know, it's fun though. It's like what look at what memory is, right? Memory is you're recalling something from the past and bringing it into the present. Nothing's wrong with it at all. It's just recognizing in the moment that's what's going on. You know, Jesus says, do this in remembrance of me, right? And at the what's called the Last Supper, right? He said, do this in remembrance of me. And you know how the Christians and Catholic took it to mean pretend like you're eating my body and drinking my blood every whatever. But he was saying, make miracles, do this, make miracles in remembrance. And you know, he explained how in remembrance means you're bringing uh something from the something from the past and making it and and remembering it now. You're doing this in time, that's what we do. So it's like even when we bring memories up from the past, notice what the teaching is within the memory. That's how they all are funny, everything, right? And and you know, that's one reason why it is all comedy because it's all teaching something. And if you study comedy, which you could say I studied comedy, not on purpose. Uh, I was just I just loved comedy. I loved to laugh ever since I was a little kid, and that was one thing I could find on TV. There was comedy. There is, you know, I I always wanted more than what was actually given, but I was looking for more comedy. Um, but like stand-up comedy, all that kind of stuff. There's a teaching in the laughing, and and I think that's why I like it, because there it's always like pointing to something, it's pointing to some like human condition kind of truth, and there's teaching in it, right? It's teaching. So so a lot of the times people get shocked and not like it. They'll be like, oh, I don't I don't like it. And you know, it's like that's because you don't like the teaching. The teaching is basically showing you where your triggers are, right? You just don't like the teaching. See it's funny because there was all these controls on comedy recently. I guess they're being lifted now, but apparently controls on comedy, so people couldn't say anything offensive. And that's the thing about comedy.

SPEAKER_02 52:05

It's offensive.

SPEAKER_04 52:08

It's meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

That's what gets you laughing. Right? That's what's funny.

SPEAKER_04 52:20

If you look at everything from that perspective, too. You know, whatever seems to happen, it's just funny. Oh, that's funny. Other day, a a glass, I just got a fresh glass of water and I had it on the counter, and then all of a sudden I hear pop, and the whole thing just split right down the middle, and it just was poop, and all the water's everywhere.

SPEAKER_07 52:48

I just started laughing. I was like, what the heck? Nothing even caused that, apparently.

Lower Order Problems And True Healing

SPEAKER_04 52:57

I was just like, pop, I was like, I was cracking up, and and and you know, it's like these things. Every time I perceive anything that seems to be a problem, if it seems to be a problem, that is uh always an opportunity again for forgiveness. What does forgiveness look like in a circumstance like this where you hit where you recognize a glass breaking? Uh any kind of problem, right? Apparent problem is coming from the thought of separation. That's really the forgiveness. That is the forgiveness. It's recognizing that any apparent problem is coming from the thought of separation. It has no cause in the world, it's nothing against you, you're not doing anything wrong. You're not doing anything, you know, you could have glasses break all day long and you're still not doing anything wrong. Really. And and if you're and and if you're alert to what's going on and you're like, oh, this is great. I just get to undo the mind all day long like this, and it's fun and funny. It's not a reflection on you. That's the thing. A lot of a lot of spiritual people believe that it's a reflection upon them if something seems to go wrong or be a problem. It's not like that. You're not looking for less problems, you're not looking for fewer problems. You actually want to see through all problems. You want to use the problems to undo the thought that causes them, which is the thought of separation. That's what they're for. See, and another thing is I notice is in my experience, there seem to be relatively few problems, and the reason for that is that I use the problems that do arise for forgiveness. See that all of your problems have already been solved. Number one, that doesn't mean it's wrong to perceive a problem, it means you should perceive a problem like it's an opportunity. See, and and recognize that that is a problem, even though it's fun and it's funny, it's still a problem. It's coming from the sense of separation. Without the separate sense of separation, everything is 100% smooth. There's no glasses breaking, there's no failing to uh go live on Substack, you know. There's there's just no mishaps, there's no uh running out of gas. Shit, there's no need to get gas in the first place. Things just work, right? All these things, even minor inconveniences, you guys, they are opportunities, right? Even minor inconveniences, these things can and will change, these things can and will pass away, but it's us up to us to actively participate, and I think that is so much fun. Even this, I was driving, I I drive five times a week now because I go to uh I go to a wellness center where I get all these sweet things. Oh, it's so relaxing. Ah. Anyways, oh I just go in there and I'm like, ah five days a week, find myself driving over there and recognizing driving. That's one of those problems. Not that I don't love it. I love it. I get in the car and I have a good ass time. I have such a relaxing time. I I play with my posture a bunch, I stick my head to the back of the seat and lengthen my neck, and I feel really good, and I get all kinds of releases, and I look at the beautiful scenery around here, and I get all kinds of downloads. I get uh I get revelations in the car. But here's the thing the idea that we need to drive somewhere to get somewhere the fucking problem, which has already been solved, by the way. That's why I can enjoy the car ride. It's not a problem to for me to be in the car. It's fun. The idea that we have to drive somewhere to get somewhere, that's a problem. That's that stems from the thought of separation that needs to get undone. There's no reason except conditioning that we've laid upon ourselves why we can't just imagine ourselves over wherever we think we want to be. We don't need to get in a car or a plane to get there. See? So uh so it's like all for me, it's all things that I'm aware of become uh something that I use as an opportunity to forgive that, you know, recognizing that that the driving is not really necessary and it's not getting me anywhere. Driving is not getting me anywhere. It's not it's not linear.

SPEAKER_07 58:46

I mean, just to be aware of that. You don't have to do anything different, you're still driving, right? Apparently.

SPEAKER_04 58:53

But uh, but that's the forgiveness. It's like shit, no one, no one gets anywhere driving. We're we're we're just making it so that it'll be believable that now we're imagining that we're over there, but we never even moved. We went in our imagination, but it's straight up not believing this is like disbelief in what's actually true, and so we got layers and layers of in the unconscious mind this disbelief in the truth. So that's why it seems like we have to get in a car that we buy gas for, that we have to work to get the fucking gas. That is hilarious. Like it takes money to get over there that you gotta work for, apparently. All right, no wonder people want to secure themselves. You can't do shit without money, apparently, and you got to secure it for yourself, apparently. This is all make-believe, and I'm unraveling it. So this is basically what we were going over in a course in miracles, maybe a couple weeks ago, where Jesus was talking about he is asking us to cooperate with him. So we're basically just turning our mind towards what's true. That's the cooperation. We're turning our minds towards what's true. The truth of the matter is driving is not getting me anywhere. There's an idea that this place is about 23 minutes away, and then there's looking at the time to see. I'm aware of all this stuff, how time plays into it. There's looking at the time to see. So I leave at the right time because if I arrive late, they might cut my sauna time short. Depends on who they got on the schedule. I'm aware of this, and I'm recognizing this. This time thing that I gotta leave at a certain time, that's a problem, and it's a problem that's already been solved, so that's why I could take it all like it's just comical, because it is the lower order problem, lower order problem. Thank you, Natalie. That comes from a course in miracles.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:35

When there's urgency, you're being alerted.

Movies News And Nervous System Programming

SPEAKER_04 1:01:38

When there's urgency, you're being alerted. Yes, that there's a lower order problem, and lower order problem means it's something in the world, like you need you seem to need something. My mom goes through this like every month, seeming to need something. She she was she was listening to me. She's she listens on on these on these different topics, you know. I just get off of this thing about um the crucifixion, you know, because she's she kind of like worships the crucifixion in a way, right? Jesus died for our sins. And if I say that isn't true, she starts like looking at me cross-eyed. She can't hear another thing I'm saying. So but she she heard me when I told her, hey, you know, some of the things you're saying, the way you're talking, it seems like you can let go of those things and be in more of an abundance kind of mindset. And she goes, Oh, she goes, Are you gonna tell me what they are? I go, Yeah, do you have a moment? And she goes, Yeah. And so I go, Well, I heard you say that you're surviving, and that's something I've heard you say since I was a kid, and your perception has always been that you're surviving. So that's cutting off what you could know right now in terms of abundance. And she's like, Oh my goodness. And she's like, Okay. And I go, it's not like it's wrong to say something like that, and you don't have to make yourself not say it. You just want to be aware of when you're saying it and that it's actually a conditioned thought that's not worthy of you and doesn't mean anything. Okay. I'm just surviving, for instance. You've probably heard people say that before. Maybe you have said that, right? I've heard in my mind certain different thoughts that I just I'm not, I'm not uh I'm not seeing any of them right now, but different thoughts that had to do with survival and just like recognizing that isn't true. That is the relief, that is the forgiveness. It's recognizing that thought is not true. Also, to recognize while it's not true, it is given so much power when you believe it. It's like given all power to make your perceived reality, right? So you don't just let them slide, being believed. You don't just let those slide. You don't you don't just go, okay, well, nothing I can do about that. I'm surviving, and then the other one was using the word poor in a way, poor John or whatever, and a way going poor, and even the tone of voice sounds painful, like poor so and so, and I go, there's just one mind, and when you keep saying that, it's programming your mind to register and project pour for you. The mind is obedient like that when you're saying pour, even in your thought, it doesn't have to come out of your mouth, just recognize. Yeah, poor John. Yes, let poor they're going through whatever, whatever, whatever. And you know, even the things that they seem to be going through, the projections are all material. It's like loss of some stream of income or uh loss of a companionship, and it's it's nothing. I mean, I've had people feel bad for me. Because the situation I'm in, I'm like, uh, what are you saying? I'm in a great situation. What are you talking about? You know, like, feel bad for me that I uh left a 30-year marriage without any assets.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:19

Right? I was like, what are you talking about? It's it's it's all here.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:27

It's all here. There's nothing to go after.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:38

So my daughter has been uh talking with me a lot more lately. Apparently, her and her dad, my husband, have not been getting along anymore. Apparently, ever since my husband realized, okay, she's gone for good. So my daughter was yeah, me. Yeah, I'm gone, hope is gone for good. And so, you know, I was talking with my daughter, and you know, she's like feeling like these kind of emotions, like he was just faking it, he was just kidding, he was he was acting like he was uh more spiritual, he was acting like he was accepting of me, but he was never really accepting of me. He was really just trying to get my mom back and stuff like that. And um, and and I go, okay, so right now he seems to be going through this since, like I was talking about, he lost uh well, well, what he said is the love of his life, and he wants the process that he lost the love of his life, and you know, this is something you know, you can feel that it's like naturally we care deeply for a person going through that, but it's not like poor whatever, it's actually something that that's uh meant to make them more resilient, more aware of what the truth is, more connected to their inner source, you know, and and just not taking things personal. You know, there may be a lashing out, something like that. And she goes, Okay, but I don't want to work for him. And I go, it doesn't mean you have to work for him. Forgiveness doesn't mean you do what they want you to do, you know, forgiveness doesn't mean you ever talk to anyone again, you may never talk to him again, you don't know, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

Can it be correct in saying that, like if forgiveness truly happened, there would only just be a sense of lightness. That's right, a lightening that's right. That's yeah, you know, a legitimate miracle.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:04

Yeah, it's like it's like when forgiveness really collapses time, it does, and let's give an example of that, the difference between being a circular miracle and one that collapses time, just in this kind of scenario, right? If you're just going, okay, you're getting relief within yourself for this, for having to go through this. And of course, Jesus wants you to get whatever relief you can get, whatever you're willing to accept for having to go through this. And there's also the kind of relief that collapses time and this kind of forgiveness, uh, this kind of miracle working, is actually seeing that this whole thing is beneficial. So now you're looking at the person who's going through this, and they're, you know, they seem to be treating you mean. They seem to be talking mean, they seem to be not appreciating you now, they seem to be kicking you out, right? And you're really like getting to a sense of gratitude for this person doing whatever they're doing, apparently doing whatever they're doing, even if they're yelling you at you or anything like that, and excited about it, excited about the opportunity to express what's actually true in the midst of perceiving someone in apparent turmoil, right? To express loving lovingly while someone seems to be in turmoil, and you know, like I'll look at my unloved unloving thoughts like such a comedy show, too. You know, it's like it's it's like when I'm feeling any kind of trigger, the first thoughts that come up are the funniest thoughts. They actually are the funniest thoughts. Like, what the fuck do you think you're fucking saying, you dumbass? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:56

Right?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:57

Right? And and when I when I'm triggered, but I'm not I'm not trying not to be triggered, right? I I I'm happy to see that. Oh, that's and and you know, I just watch my triggered thoughts play out. Uh and and you know, maybe the first response will be something to just like show them up, right? I'll give you an example. One of my friends told me that they're they want to talk to me, but they want to wait until they're really centered spiritually, kind of like they're afraid of me, right? So the first thing occurs is like I fucking care, like I'm sitting around here waiting for your stupid fucking call, right? That's like the first thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:56

And then it's like, okay, I see what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

You're fucking uh manipulator, you're just like putting the fucking guilt on me, like I'm not fucking like holding us a space for you well enough. And then I'm like, nope, that one passes away too, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:14

Until it's like, hey, we don't need to have a call.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:20

The idea for the call was fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:23

It's it was like a spark. It was like, woo, what a fun idea, and then it doesn't really have to happen, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:29

And it's just like really, and and and and it's just you know, sweetness until sweetness, that's the flavor that I want to express.

unknown 1:12:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

Oh yeah, speaking of that, Natalie was uh a little bit playfully on my case this time last week.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:53

Not really, but she she came on one of my posts because I was going, fuck those guys, right? And she's like, no way, I'm not I'm not going for that. I'm I'm I'm doing it this way, and uh and I'm like, hey, you know, sometimes I don't know how I said it, but sometimes the form of it seems to be an abomination because you're saying, fuck those guys, right? And but the substance is really going, you know what? I've been following this pattern of believing uh that I have to do what other people tell me to do all the time. There is kind of a strong sense that arises. What I notice within myself, it's almost like a jump, it's almost like a leap forward where you're able to see through it because there's the there's these automatic um attachments that are built into our relating that seems like if you, you know, you're behaving if you do what they say. You're not behaving if you don't do what they say. So it's kind of the it, it's kind of like even though it's it's there's no separation, it's all in your mind. It's like at some point, it's almost like you have a breakthrough and go, fuck those guys. Wait a second. I don't have to listen to them. And I don't have to mind if they don't want to hang out with me because I apparently didn't listen to them. See, it's like it's like there's these, uh, it's almost like there's these. I get a sense in the spirit realm, like there's claws attached to us in these apparent relationships. And these aren't even real relationships. The only real relationship is the one between you and God. Another way to say it, your mind and your heart is another way to say that's the real relationship. So it's like we've been trained to be succumbing to what we believe we need for survival. That's why it's like it's a strong uh contraction. And here's the other thing about this they want you really, they want you to be like, fuck those guys. Because truly, they don't want you following their thoughts of fear, they don't want you to do that, they think they do, and they're playing a role for you because you wanted them to act that out and you actually taught them how to do it. That was sweet. So it's like when you recognize that you don't need to follow any fear thoughts, even if you have trained people to reflect to you that you need them to love you, otherwise, you're not gonna survive.

unknown 1:15:41

Right?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:43

That's uh that's kind of like you could say that's kind of like what we're uh what we're um facing, this ego fear of not surviving. Like we're not gonna survive unless we are obedient to people. And that's why in the Bible, Jesus says he's no respecter of persons, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:08

He's no respecter of what? Persons.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:11

Yeah, because it's like the personhood, and you know, in the whole society and everything, it's like we're looking to other persons to show us, to reflect back to us how we should be, how we should think, how we should regard things, right? So when it comes to our health, and they think that we would be doing something against them by not following doctor's orders, right? If you don't follow the doctor's orders, I'm not gonna love you anymore. I'm gonna be so fucking pissed at you, I'm just gonna stop talking to you. Right? Because to me, you're not taking care of yourself if you don't follow doctor's orders, and I'm like, fuck those guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:08

You don't need to follow doctor's orders because of that. It doesn't make any sense, right?

Resurrection As Proof Of Freedom

SPEAKER_04 1:17:13

It makes no sense, and I'm telling you, they want this because your willingness to be released from that fear of what they'll do if you don't follow along, and even being released, what'll happen to your body if you just follow your inner guidance and not fear? What you know? Hey, let's do an experiment. Might as well, it's all going to the same place. You might as well do an experiment. You know how you guys probably heard that if you eat raw chicken, you can get salmonella poisoning and die. So about 20 years ago, I was on a raw food diet that included raw meat, and a guy told me, that's bullshit. You're never ever ever going to get salmonella poisoning from raw chicken. You're gonna get salmonella poisoning from cooked chicken. That's the fucked up way to do it. Right? And and the whole the whole way he said it, the whole way he pointed it out, it just made so much sense to me. He's like, when the chicken's raw, and if it gets a lot of salmonella on it, it's gonna smell terrible to you. You're not gonna want to eat it. When the chicken's cooked, if you missed cooking it until it was like a hard, dry piece of meat and you put it in the fridge and you saved it for later. Now the bacteria multiplied on that cooked part like it was soil and you don't smell it.

unknown 1:18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:45

I was like, okay, I don't know that that's true. I mean, it sounds logical, but my conditioning is do not touch raw chicken. I'm gonna do an experiment. What do you think happened?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:02

I ate a bunch of raw chicken, it felt awesome. That's what happened.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:08

There was, believe me, uh, chick, raw chicken doesn't really taste that good. The first time I tried raw chicken, I ate a few bites of it and then I seasoned it up and stuck it in a pan and cooked it, and then I ate it. But then after that, oh my gosh, there are ways to do raw chicken where it's way better than cooked chicken. You actually soak it in lime juice, wring it out, and then you can well, you can rinse it even. It'll be like it'll look like it's cooked by that point, like three days in lime juice or something like that. And then you can just use any ingredients you want. You can make like Chinese chicken, and it's really it's ridiculously moist, but with a but with a nice texture. So I did that for years, right? Uh just uh just recognizing that I can experiment with anything, and this whole illusion, it's more like uh metaphor, uh everything's metaphor, it's not really there, right? So it's like uh if you want it to be true, it can be true. That's what I found out. Like when you believe in the truth, that whatever you want to be true is already true, and since you're in command of all the particles that make everything, it's coming true. So I just don't let my mind rise up against what the truth is. So I've shared with you guys before when I was only 17, it occurred to me I felt the torture of raw uh or not raw, low-fat diet. Yeah, I felt the torture. I was in Costco and I was standing in the area where everyone was in line, and I believe I felt that community of people that were in Costco at that time because I felt this dread that we have to do this, that we have to eat food that doesn't taste good, that we're not enjoying in order to be healthy. That was the thought, and then the thought occurred to me what if everything that I love to eat and tastes good and nourishing is actually good and nourishing for me. And that just because I opened up to that, I start to see that more and more, and that's how it is in my experience. Uh the stuff that feels the best for me to eat, it seems to be the best because I allow it to.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

The raw chicken feels good. Was it with the skin, the fatty skin?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:54

Did the raw chicken have skin? I believe, I believe it did.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:59

That's my fair if I'm gonna put some chicken. Give me that skin. I love that. Like cooked. I wonder what it would be like raw at all.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:07

Well, when you soak it, it might change. When you soak it in lime juice, it might change. She's asking questions about the she's like interested in the raw chicken.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:18

You you hooked me with moist chicken.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:21

Yeah, she's like, moist chicken. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:25

No, yeah. So it so things can show you that they're just not what they appear to be. That's what I love. Things like when I told my mom, you don't have to do that anymore. You don't have to cut anything off. There's no need to do that, right? I mean, now we got rip Rick Simpson oil. It seems to do it. You just put those on your little cancerous shit, and right. And that's and and that's the thing. It's like these are lower order pro problems. They just automatically get taken care of because of the two levels. Lower indicates lower level problems. So the higher level is all my problems have been solved. So the higher level influences the lower level and shows you whatever kind of problems you have, easier ways to apparently solve these easier, more fun ways. I mean, what is this world but solving problems one after the other, right? So easier apparent ways to solve problems, or else that thing just doesn't even seem to be there, or it just doesn't even seem to be a problem to you anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:40

Makes me think of um John of God. He was that guy in Brazil, or maybe he's still around. John of God operates with like a butter knife. Yeah. You know, yeah, you know, where it's like, oh, but it's like okay, we're still kind of I mean, it might point to something, but really we want to be doing the miracles that are actually healing, not doing stuff to the body to prove yeah, it's all b it's all belief. Yeah, right-mindedness is what we truly want.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:19

Like it's not yeah, but it's it's not, it's it's not uh what we truly want is not symptom relief. That's not the Holy Spirit's gift to us is not symptom relief because the Holy Spirit didn't give us the pain or the symptom in the first place. The Holy Spirit's gifts are eternal, and symptom relief gets taken care of because it's a lower level. It's lower level. One of the symptoms that's gonna get taken care of, that is getting taken care of through our un our willingness to undo thoughts, is aging in death itself. It's getting taken care of right now. Every time a thought occurs to us, like we're locked into this thing and we're willing to see, and I'm I've been getting more practice with that too, because I've got people around me basically telling me how they're dying, right? So that gives me opportunity. I'm happy about it. I'm not looking to hide away from the troubles and the burdens of the world. It's like I'm not trying to run after them either. It's just a matter of when they arise, when I'm when I'm faced with illusion, I work a miracle, I stay in a miracle state of mind. I don't let myself be swayed by illusion, like, oh, poor so-and-so. Now they got to get another surgery. It's like, oh, you want to get a surgery? That's fun. One of my friends is getting a heart replacement. I'm like, that's gonna be awesome. Yeah, that'll be awesome. How fun, you know. Also, you don't need that, you don't really need that. It's just a habit. And there's nothing wrong with going and getting it either. Just don't take it seriously at all. Everyone is kidding around. The whole hospital staff. And you know, it's a it's a really, it's like it's like dark humor because they're cutting you open. That is a fucking trip, right? What kind of movie is this? Right? But here's the thing people people automatically, uh voluntarily feel upset attack thoughts every night when they go and sit down and watch a show that has violence in it, torture, anything like that, these energies uh end up end up kind of like living in your energy field when you don't notice it. You have to be really alert for these kinds of things because you know it's like all in the reaction in the body's energy field. So I shared with you guys, I have not been watching any shows. No shows, no TV. I'm not trying not to. I'm just really not interested. It just doesn't happen. It can happen if I'm hanging out with someone, they want to watch a show. Sure, I'll watch a show with them. So I was watching a show with a friend, and this was after the friend was like, What shows do you watch? I'm like, I don't really watch shows, but I could pick some stuff out. So I just watch the corniest comedy kind of thing. And he was like, let's watch a comedy that's like a little bit more intelligent. I think that was the word he used, a little bit more creative, maybe. I don't know. Oh, okay, it's a comedy. First thing, a torture scene.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:14

Was not funny. To me, it was not funny. I was laying right here on the floor, and I felt my nervous system react. And I was like, whoa. I mean, it was kind of funny. Um, because I'm watching my nervous system react. I'm like, oh my goodness. And I'm getting uh I'm getting an awareness that people don't notice the nervous system because I'm super sensitive to my own nervous system, right? I can see what's going on. People don't notice when they watch these things and they endure through a torture scene, they're uh in their in their mind and nervous system, they are going through torture. So people are voluntarily, this is before bed, going through torture, killing all kinds of things voluntarily. I mean, when you're watching a movie like that, your mind does not know the difference between you anything, imagination, anything. Your mind does not know the difference because there really is no difference between living it and watching it on TV. Okay, so unless you're like super spiritually tune tuned in, like for me, it had no effects because I'm going, I see that this thing has no effects, right? But for someone who doesn't see that, and this is just normal, to watch this for entertainment and they're not aware of what is going on in the nervous system, getting programmed right before bed to attack, basically, toward attack.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:05

Is there's gonna remind me? There's something in the Course of Miracles, too, um, where it's talking about how it's like we're like a slave to the master, a slave to the master of the ego, and so that's right. Okay, master. Well, I endured that, and then we think we're getting some praise, like yeah, yes, yeah, the endurance, yes, a pray, yes, so it's like uh uh it's like it's like a slave.

Stop Managing Relationships And Outcomes

SPEAKER_04 1:30:35

She's Natalie's talking about it's like being a slave to this master. This master is feeding on attack energy. Okay, this that's the ego. This master wants you to endure. This master wants you to experience torture. When you watch it on TV or on a movie, you are experiencing it. Recognize that. Nothing wrong with it. Again, it's not a sinful thing to do, it's not like that. Recognize what's going on. What are you look at look what's look what's happening in your energy field? If you tune into your energy field, you're gonna see. Now, I remember going to movies with Tony, and I loved to go to movies with Tony in my 20s. It was so fun. We would smoke a little pot out in the parking lot, and it was illegal to smoke pot in those days in California. Um, but we did it, and we were having so much fun. We would smoke in the parking lot, go to the movies, and at some point we started watching his movies, the movies he liked to watch. And that was when I stopped liking to go to the movies, and I didn't realize, but it was that I was tuned into my nervous system, and that didn't feel good. There was just all this activity, loud, moving all around, death. And I was like, I don't feel good after that. And so I'm like, I'm only I only want to go to movies that are comedies that do not have killing in them. I want to feel good and uplifted. That's what I'm paying or someone else's paying, whatever. I'm spending time paying attention. I want something that feels good. So we stopped being um compatible in movies, and he started watching that stuff in the house. And at one point, I was having the hardest time I was going through um, I guess you might call it dark night, uh eight dark night, maybe the dark night. I don't know. But there was a TV right in the middle of our house, and it was constantly on. And that's another thing where I feel like I won the lotto sitting here by myself. I'm there's a big ass TV behind me that you can't see. I don't even know how to turn it on. I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:56

I don't even know how to turn it on.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:00

It's a huge TV. Yeah. Yeah. When Billy's here, he'll probably turn the TV on.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:06

I'll find a place to hang out. We'll see what happens. Who knows? Maybe he'll be like, you know what, Hope? I want to uh I want to live for a couple weeks like Hope Johnson. I was I'll be like, okay, well, we do that with the TV off.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:25

We have a lot of quiet, restfulness, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:32

Stumbled across some good movies, though. So if you guys are looking for a recommendation, oh okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:38

Natalie's saying she stumbled across some good movies. Uh I'm happy to watch a movie. I I usually don't find myself watching them alone, and I've been by myself apparently for a while. But like if someone goes, hey, hope, let's check out this movie together, I'm happy to do that.

unknown 1:33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:57

And if it's one of those ones I find out it has torture in it and stuff like that, I'm still okay. I just notice what it is. But yeah, you know, people don't realize what really contributes to dis-ease, and it's feeling dis-eased, out of ease. So sometimes our shows that we like are actually bringing dis-ease because we're not realizing that there's a nervous system reaction happening. And of course, all dis-ease is only caused by thoughts, it's not caused by things, it's not caused by that actual thing. That's why I can get out of it, it could have no effects for me. Right? Because I'm seeing the nervous system reaction and registering it as a meaningless thing. This thing can't do anything to me. But when you're not seeing the nervous system reaction, you're registering the nervous system registration automatically as you just went through trauma. Your mind registered that. That you went through trauma, and now you're gonna repeat that every night before bed.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:26

Pretty wild.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:32

And it's the same thing for people watching the news. That's the thing about what did you say it was? Uh the slave the about the slave.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:41

Oh, um, oh yeah, of course, we're also just recognize that you yeah, in a way you're a slave to a master who is giving you praise. That's the payoff.

Freedom Anywhere Prison And Resilience

SPEAKER_04 1:35:55

You're a slave to a master that's giving you praise. Okay, so so it's like you'll get a feeling like you need to keep up on your show, right? Like, like you accomplished something because you watched your show, for instance. And basically you were paying your dues. You were paying your dues in enduring and yeah, enduring uh torture. So the ego loves it. It's like you've been it's like you've been productive, the ego will praise you for enduring. The ego loves sacrifice. It's like, ah, I made it through that day. It's like shit, the whole day your mind was blank. Because you're thinking about ego things. Whenever you're thinking about worldly things, your mind is just blank. That's really a good uh way of seeing how I just want to come back right now. I want to stay in the presence right now. I don't ever want to leave the presence. The only reason we ever leave the presence is fear that something's going to occur on the surface of things if we don't leave the presence to solve the fucker. That's why he says, All of your problems have been solved. It's okay. I've already resurrected. Oh, hey, you guys, it's Easter, it's resurrection day. I just never remember that again. So the resurrection revealed that no one needs to suffer. There's no one needs to suffer anymore. Jesus is saying he didn't even suffer on the cross, hung on the cross in the apparent dream. It's more like a picture. See, when your mind is completely purified of guilt, you can't even suffer. Even if someone's hanging you on a cross. See, that's what was proven in the world, and that's why the resurrection occurred. And that resurrection is symbolic of all of our resurrection. It's it's already done. The the fact is, we haven't realized it's done. We haven't realized it's done. And in the illusion of time, it's been thousands of years, it could be millions more years, too, because there's resistance to this awareness. But I don't think it will be millions more years. What I've been what I'm being shown is that for this to be really widespread, it's in about 500 years. That's actually very close, given the scheme of things. That's actually very close. But there are those of us who are way ahead of the mainstream on this, and we're being asked to cooperate as far as being released from fear way quicker than we would normally be asked to do that. But we have all the support for this, and I'm like, hooray! I love being released from fear. That's my favorite, right? The more I get released from fear, it's like, oh, wow. It's like new horizons. It's like fresher breath, more air is here. Right? And it's like, oh, how was I ever living like that before? And then there's another layer. And then you're like, oh, how was I even living like that five minutes ago? Right? You just see more freedom, more being connected. And that what that includes is let's say this, okay. One of my friends was talking about how um she's she keeps on running into these narcissistic guys. These are the only guys that ever come into her experience, right? And it's hard. She's like, it keeps on getting harder. It seems like it gets harder now. Uh it's like uh it's like I feel so disappointed. They don't do what I need them to do. And it's like, yes, it's getting harder because your desire to wake up is growing. You do not want to hide in these things for any amount of time, right? And so the quicker they could be played out to where you're like, okay, this there's no more teaching and learning here. Uh, this sucks. I'm not gonna keep on pursuing this sucky relationship anymore, right? So then, great, that's great. The only thing is, when you don't see what's causing you to play into that dynamic, you're gonna just do it again. And what is causing you to play in this dynamic? This is what I saw, what's causing this person to play in this dynamic? It's the belief that there is someone who's going to meet your needs. Okay, your needs are met by the whole sonship. We exist for and with each other, the whole sonship. That means not anyone in particular. What I noticed uh with my experience in the dynamic that I was in, where I was feeling like I was in love and everything like that, and I was. It was amazing, and it still is. What I noticed is that doesn't leave me at all. It's like the person that doesn't uh really need to go along with a person. It's just that I got help from the person accessing that deep love that I'm capable of, and I'm just like, that's the best thing. Who cares if the relationship goes forward or not? That's the best thing. Now it's like before I had two dudes in Hawaii, neither of them were quite doing it for me. One of them was giving me all kinds of security and and attention and everything, but I wasn't having the passion and fire aspect with him. The other one, I was getting the passion and fire and just yuck, disrespect kind of stuff. I was like, ah, I don't know. And now I seem to have two dudes that I'm talking to, and they they both just feel really congruent, you know. It's like it, it's like my energy has shifted. It doesn't, it's not congruent with the two dudes that I had in Hawaii. It's not congruent, doesn't match them anymore. So, you know, each of them got the sense like they don't want to talk to me, not in a bad way at all, not in a mean way or anything like that. Um, it's just that there's feelings that are brought up and they want to uh be in a space to process those feelings without having uh having to go through it again and again because of whatever it is that uh about me that brings something up, right? But the thing is, they didn't choose not to talk to me. That's not what it is. They didn't make that choice. That's not a choice you can make on the surface. My whole mind has changed, my psyche has changed, so they're not a match. You can't call me. You think you don't want to. Well, you actually can't, and I like it that way. I I like that. I'm I'm glad, you know. It's like it's like, yeah, there's a story that you don't want to call me. That's great. I love that. I honor that. You know, one of my friends was telling me uh uh just today that her lover told her he's not gonna talk to her for two to five years because she's just too toxic or whatever the story was, right? I'm like, great. She's like, what do you mean, great? This isn't good. There's like all these kinds of stories and stuff like that. I'm like, leave that fucker alone, leave him alone. You know, someone tells me something like that. You think I'm like calling them crying, going, but if I was, I would go, happy learner. You're welcome. Oh, did I call you crying? Oh, yeah, you're welcome. Right? But it's because I've been like that with myself that I don't have to. I don't find myself calling people crying and going, how can you say you're not gonna any anything like no? If you if you show me that you don't want my attention, I'm good. I got I got this for one thing, this lake to put my attention on. Just the lake, the lake is good, or whatever it is that he that seems to be in front of me at the time, right? So this person was really distraught. So I was going, okay, you perceived yourself doing something you didn't want to do. You did not want to break down like this. You wanted to stay level-headed. You did not want to break down and call that person and start crying. The fact is, you didn't really do it, nothing really happened in time. You imagined that you did it because you believed in thoughts that weren't true. Does that mean you have to go back and learn your lessons again? No, it does not. It means it's giving you something that's up for forgiveness. You know, it's like when you perceive yourself acting in a way that you don't want to act, that is a forgiveness opportunity right there. And you know, the way forgiveness comes in for me is happy learner. See, I'm happy that I get this experience. I haven't done anything to anyone. My attitude within myself is you're welcome. And if they're reflecting to me that they're hurt or something like that, my attitude within myself is caring for the hurt. I don't have to do anything on the surface. The Holy Spirit takes care of loving everyone for me. Right? All I need to do is see. Okay. So uh so there's no um need to try to manage any of your relationships. They're all coming according to what is the most beneficial for you to uh realize that you have resurrected. You already have resurrected, you know, Jesus demonstration apparently thousands of years ago is just something you're coming to know and coming to recognize that that's a symbol for what has already been done in you. It's been done now. You're demonstrating it through to yourself through the particulars of your life, whatever that may be, and the particulars of your thinking more specifically. Okay, the surface thing doesn't matter. So I got the uh I got the uh idea or insight, who knows what it is, that I might not be going back to Hawaii. And immediately it occurred to me, I do not fucking care where I am. Yeah, I mean, I just feel such complete, complete freedom in myself that I do not care where I am. I don't care. You know, someone was talking about, oh, there was a joke, it was a meme on on Facebook, and they're like, you know, people can complain about everything. I have one friend who gets the three meals a day, has uh has like hours to work out, hours to meditate, hours to read a book, and they still complain every day that they're in prison.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:19

Like they're literally in prison.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:23

Man, I heard that and I was like, that's that sound, that even sounds good. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:34

Could you see me in prison? I'm fucking partying, right? Like I'm fucking partying in there.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:40

Like I know, I have a well, I have a friend too, and uh I'm not trying to go to prison. I'm not trying not to either. I know wherever I find myself is fucking awesome. Um, but I have a friend who went to prison and he actually went to prison in in Nepal more recently, but he was in prison in the United States for psychedelics, you know, uh ayahuasca or something like that. And the guy said, I loved it in there. Are you kidding? He's like, Are you kidding me? They just feed you, and you know, it's like, who cares if the food is shitty? You have all the fucking time in the world to work on your mind and take all meaning and belief out of anything you're eating. He's saying he mostly fasted.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:30

You know, you don't have to use any brain power to do anything in the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:35

He's like, I'm I was met fasting and meditating and teaching yoga.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:45

Yeah. Even in, even in like a more brutal situation where he was in um where where you say he was Nepal, where it was uh like a more brutal situation. And you know, I've seen that kind of resilience. In myself, because I was raised in a brutal situation, apparently, where you know, sometimes an adult can get really pissed off. And the next thing you know, your fucking head is split open and you're in the hospital and you're fucking bleeding all over yourself. You weren't expecting that that day.

unknown 1:50:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:21

But I was so resilient, I would be back to laughing and joking, even though I'm not out of the situation. Like it's bound to happen again.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:31

And you just see kind of like uh how this joy, uh the joy in the mind and that how resilient it is. It's like when I was a kid, it didn't even matter to me that I knew I was getting my ass beat again anytime, right? In some kind of way. And sometimes it'd be really brutal, you know. But it's not like I spent the rest of the time in fear of that. I was having a good ass time, right? A lot of my friends I went to high school with, they had no idea I was even going through any of that stuff. I wasn't trying to bum people out, you know. I would yeah, I would give people a bad time, you know. Hey, do you guys know that my stepdad is having sex with me and also beating the shit out of me at home? Oh, really? Well, let's go have a drink about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:20

Maybe on some but you knew that that would that level of truth telling would just uh be too fearful.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:33

It would be too much for for my friends in high school. It was obvious. That would just be too much for them. But you know, when I did need some assistance, uh, I was able to tell one of my boyfriends, and he's you know, he just looked at things differently than the way my family members did. So my family members were more like, man, if that guy uh if if that guy fucking wants to do something with you, it must be because you're too sexy. What are you doing? That's so sexy. Oh man, those 10-year-olds, they can they can shake it. No, I was very sexual though. I was raised sexual, so and I loved it. I loved sex as a kid. I loved sex with kids.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:29

No. Now, dudes in their 30s, I'm like, fuck yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:37

As a kid, no.

Love Thanks And Donation Links

SPEAKER_04 1:52:41

Yeah, uh, you know, this is just uh this is just an effect where there's molestation and beating and stuff like that. It's just an effect of pain and fear coming up. And really, it's like the one playing the child and the one playing adult, they're equal participants in it. And at the same time, when we learn responsibility, the one playing the adult, responsibility, remember, is response, giving response to the situation. So responding in love. When the when when the adult is not drawn by the ego to try to always get something out of this world, then the adult isn't going to be looking at the child like they're something to extract sexual pleasure from in the first place. See, that's not going to occur. And I could see that he was struggling, even as a child. I would see that he was going through some struggles. That's not to say that he's excused for doing any of those kinds of things either. That's not saying it's an excuse. The uh the the fact is that nothing really happened, and what appeared to be happened that happening that looked painful came from a sense like I can get something out of this world that's worth something. And no one really believes that. That's a very painful way to look at it. Really, what we want from this world is nothing. What we want from perceiving the world is the Holy Spirit's gift, which survives the world. It's never temporary. These are real gifts, they don't turn from pleasure to pain, they're true, joyful gifts because they're awareness of the truth that we are, and it lets us be released from the trappings of the world that makes us feel guilty and confined to a way of being that we do not like. So, hooray, everyone! Yay! Look at armpit hair again. I got warm enough to put a tank top on. Woo! Yay! Happy Easter, everyone. I love you so much. I'm so glad you joined to my Substack people. I love you. I don't know what to say about the live thing. Apparently, that doesn't work sometimes. We will be uh, this will be posted and you'll get to watch it anyways. It just takes a few weeks. Yay! I love you. Thank you too. Yes, we have risen. Feel free to donate. Um, all of this is donation-based. Uh, hopejohnson.org. You can do uh recurring donations there, monthly donations. I think the minimum is$10. I'm not sure, but anything you want would be helpful. And if you like to donate and don't know how, just get a hold of me. Hope at hopejohnson.org. Hopejohnson.org. Go there for all of my free content. Click free resources. That's where you'll find the A Course in Miracles lessons, all 365 of them. And coming up on that podcast, if you're looking under podcast, it's Hope Johnson A-C-I-M. Coming up is the epilogue. I've recorded it, it just needs to be uploaded. So that's going to be coming soon to that particular podcast. That does not go to Substack. It does not go to YouTube, just podcasts. That's Spotify and all those different ones. You can find the links to them on my website. Again, hopejohnson.org. Oh, I love you guys so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Have a beautiful Easter and until Wednesday for my ACIM deep dive. Yay, Mahalo, aloha, and a hoo-e-ho. I love you.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:46

I'm going to dinner.