The Shock is The Opening | Wisdom Dialogues @ Lake Whatcom, WA | May 3, 2026

A single sentence changes how we interpret everything from traffic to trauma: nothing can threaten you. We start with a driving moment that could have turned into panic and anger, then slow it down until you can see the mechanics of the ego mind in real time: projection, catastrophe stories, and the belief that you are vulnerable. From there, we pivot into a practical spiritual practice, using A Course in Miracles forgiveness to collapse the whole “threat” framework and replace it with something unexpectedly sane like gratitude or even laughter.

Then we widen the lens to the places fear hides in plain sight: retirement plans, money stress, earning, and the constant internal pressure to secure the future. We talk about abundance mindset as a felt experience of “needs already met,” how dependency programs form around substances and pharmaceutical drugs, and why judging your spirituality by external outcomes is a trap. Instead, we explore deductive reasoning: bringing one foundational truth to every situation rather than letting appearances tell you who you are.

We also get real about relationships and communication: when someone is projecting motives onto you, being loving does not always mean staying engaged. We share how to pause, get centered, listen for guidance, and set clean boundaries when needed. Finally, we move into deep healing, unpacking how memory keeps pain alive and how forgiveness can end decades of replay by seeing innocence and changing the past in the present.

If this lands for you, subscribe, share it with someone who feels stuck in fear, and leave a review with the one place you want to practise “nothing can threaten me” this week.

Transcript

Welcome And Invulnerability

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Aloha and welcome to Wisdom Dialogues with Hope Johnson coming to you from Lake Wacom, Washington. Yeah. Yay. Thank you for joining. I love you. Yeah, apparently, if you're joining me on Zoom, you could see my or if you're joining me on uh Substack live, you can actually see my regular background.

unknown 0:38

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Yeah, because it's not going through Zoom somehow.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Wow. Well, at least it's a nice background, too.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Yeah, it's a really nice background. I love it. Oh, I love you guys. Thank you so much for joining. Yes. Yes. So nothing can threaten us. That applies to every single thing. Like nothing is left out of that. And you let that be like the foundation of how you do your reasoning with everything. And everything's easy because of what it's for. Right? There's not there's not any reason to even follow a thought that says that person should be doing it different. Or uh, what if their actions cause this kind of terrible thing to happen? You know, the ego mind runs on that. The ego mind runs on all these terrible things about actions that could happen. Wow, he just put me in a lot of danger, something

Driving Shock And Ego Projections

SPEAKER_01 1:50

like that, uh, by his behavior, right? A lot of the times that happens while driving, I notice, right? It's like someone will cut you off, they seem to be doing something dangerous, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Passing around blind corners, passing you.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Okay, so so we have a good, we have a good example. Billy and I have a good example from this morning. Billy's driving this big ass, what is it called? An RV? Yeah, a big RV, and it's pulling a big huge boat on behind it, right? And so he's driving along, and then all of a sudden, someone comes on a blind corner and passes Billy. It's two lanes, it's a it's really like one lane for each direction that you're going. And it was so funny. I just had the funnest time because you know, I see Billy, what the fuck? And so then I just start laughing. I'm like, I'm like laughing my ass off. And I was like, well, don't have a heart attack about it. You know, and and uh and then you know, the scenario rolled out, uh rolled out, what if he did this or this or this or this? And it's like that doesn't even matter. So when you see those thoughts don't matter, look at the extrapolating thoughts about all the shitty things that could happen, because from my perspective, that's a blind corner, and other people could be coming the other way and just have a head-on collision, right? Um, right, and and yeah, like Billy said, right in front of us. So, so all this was coming out, and then and and I'm just like laughing. Um going, none of that means anything because the whole thing, it's a feeling experience. So, what's going on is you're getting an opportunity to kind of like get a break in a pattern. That's what that kind of shock is, where it seems like, oh my God, what if something goes wrong? Like, if you take that as an experience where you can get a break in the pattern, that's a whole different thing. You're not interested in the projections about what might happen if this or if that or if that. Now, for myself, I didn't even have a shock about it because I didn't get the perception that anything was wrong. I saw him passing over there and it just didn't. Yeah, but then from Billy's perspective, it was different. He was the one driving. And also, what Billy shared with me was he saw that dude back there and thought he was following really close. But in Billy's mind, he was just kind of like, sorry, dude, there's no way around. So he was thinking that dude was stuck back there too. So he was really surprised to see him when he was uh when he was passing like that. It's kind of like a long, uh, long, windy road. So that's what these things are for. You know, I heard a story from a long time ago. It has to do with Abraham Hicks. I don't know if you heard of that, uh, those ones. They've been around for a really long time. And uh, and the woman, right as she started channeling, you know what, you know what it was? It was a traffic thing. They were driving along, and I don't know if I'm gonna get this story totally correct, but you could look it up. They're driving along on the freeway, and all of a sudden, there's two huge trucks on either side of them, and it seems like they're gonna die by the way the traffic is going, whatever's. So Esther has that moment where it's like of shock, and she ended up surrendering and started channeling right there. Right. So these are these are giving us openings. Same thing with anything like heartbreak, embarrassment, anything that's like an extreme. It's basically something that is reacting to untruth. It's as if something has been threatened or can be threatened. See? So it's like these guys who are cutting you off in traffic and being dangerous, they cannot do anything in your field of awareness without it kind of like being under your authority, you know. So, so the more you're reacting to it, the more you're calling it into your experience. That's the way it goes. So, like for myself, when I'm driving around, I just do not get the perception that anyone is doing anything dangerous at any time. It's like, yeah, sometimes I'll see cars going faster than the speed limit, but it just doesn't register with me like that. Sometimes I'll see them get in front of me really fast and really close, but it just doesn't register with me like that. Driving for me is more like playing a video game, you know, one of those driving video games. It's not like it's not like there's really anything at stake here. There is really there really is nothing at stake. I mean, even in the event of some kind of an accident, what we call accident is not accident, that's the thing. It's actually an effect of that kind of reacting and making it real. It's like it's an effect of the idea that I'm separate and I'm vulnerable to illusions. So what a course in miracles is teaching, and really what all spirituality is pointing to, is our being aware of what's actually true. Being aware of what's actually true, that we're invulnerable, that that nothing can threaten us, right? Being aware of what's actually true in the midst of reacting undoes our belief in it, our hidden belief in it. That's actually how we undo it. So that's what alertness is for.

Forgiveness That Turns Shock To Laughter

SPEAKER_01 8:20

And that's why in a course in miracles, in some of the lessons, uh, I think they're mostly in the middle, where it's like 15 minutes or half an hour that you sit still. The reason for sitting still is that it uh is that it trains alertness. So there's this alertness that takes place. And also the reason for repeating the idea. I know Billy shared with me his lesson in idea from yesterday. It was forgiveness gives me everything I want, something like that. Uh yeah, forgiveness gives me everything I want. That also makes you alert if you are uh intent on thinking that thought every 15 minutes like it's instructing. You know, and if you're doing it like it's instructing, you're actually setting your timers to go off every 15 minutes to remind you in case you didn't think in the past 15 minutes that forgiveness gives you everything you want. Now, look at what's forgiveness. We'll put it into the scenario of this idea that someone put us in some kind of danger earlier today, right? So it's not like this is the kind of forgiveness that's circular. I forgive him for doing that. See? Do you see that? Um, it didn't really happen, anyways. I forgive him for doing that. That kind of scenario, that kind of forgiveness, okay? This is the forgiveness that that you see and that collapses time, uh, kind of like what Jesus was talking. Well, totally like what Jesus was talking about in chapter two of A Course in Miracles, about collapsing time. And that's where you actually see what the only reasonable reaction is. What's the only reasonable reaction, really?

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Laughter.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Okay, laughter. That's a good one. I like it. And that fits in with the most reasonable reaction, which I was gonna say, and that was gonna be gratitude. But you know, those are kind of those are the same. Do you see that? Because notice in the moment where the trigger's coming out and you're in reaction mode. Are you anywhere close to laughing?

SPEAKER_03 10:30

I wasn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, I was laughing right next to him, but he was like, he was getting it really fast, huh, Billy? Yeah, yeah, he was he was getting it really fast, you know.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

I just did this.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yeah, yeah. But you know, he may be used to hanging out with people who would agree with him when he starts uh project, basically he's projecting, projecting like that, and they'll project along with him and make it more solid. So then you really you miss the opportunity, you miss the shock value, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:59

So that's a shock value is instead of forgiveness, it would be judgment.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

That's right. If forget instead of forgiveness, it would be judgment. So the kind of forgiveness that's circular is still holding on to judgment. Yeah, but that's what Jesus said. You know, when you first start out, that's what you're doing. Notice what everyone's doing. I forgive them for doing this. It's not real, anyways. I forgive them, right? But still, you still believe the world is real. You're just saying that it's not real to make yourself feel better. You're getting some relief in the moment. That's good. That's good. That you know, we want relief anywhere we can get it. Okay. But we also want to collapse time instead of just circularly doing the exact same thing over and over again for lifetimes, right? We want to actually collapse time so that in the moment where you get the shock, the immediate reaction is something like laughter, gratitude, right? It's like, oh, thank goodness I just got that shock, right? It's it's uh it's still the worldly programming, and that's and and that doesn't mean that Billy has more to learn. Billy, you don't have more to learn, do you? Because because you uh because you per you perceived it that way as a threat for a couple seconds.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

That means I've got more to learn.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah, you don't you don't get that idea that you have more to learn, do you?

SPEAKER_03 12:24

I didn't think of that at all.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Okay, so so that's so so that's one thing that I get from people. They think that if they react, what they perceive is the wrong way, not the right way, not the way of just laughter right away, right? That like you have something else to learn, right? This is all this is really like uh capitalism kind of mindset because as long as there's a lack, someone can feel it. Someone's gonna have something to sell you for it, right? So it it's like it's not like you have anything else to learn, it's just to discover uh through the repetition what it is for again and again. And you're demonstrating to your mind in each moment that you're perceiving these things what it means to you and who you are, right? It is like however we react to things, that demonstrates what that means to me, right? And who I am, and so if I'm demonstrating something that isn't reasonable, then I'm aware of that. That's all right, it's like that's not reasonable because I'm not uh a little speck that can just be harmed by things that come into my field of experience, you know. I am the mind that's manifesting all of this, so that means that I have complete command over all of the particles in my perception that includes people's bodies, everything, everything. What does that mean? Like, how does that play out for me? That I have command over it, it's recognizing that it's actually manifesting feeling. So, so so seeing it in a reasonable way, it's like, how do you want to feel with it? It's like anything that arises within me, I just feel like I'm uh way larger than that thing, whatever it seems to be. It's in me. So that means I can be with it exactly as I am. I could be light. I, you know, I like to be light and happy and comical and innocent and wise, and I don't have to fall into traps that the illusion set up to make me be something else. Basically, be someone that I'm not. That's really what it's like, you know, when you're playing out a trigger, you're being someone that you're really not, and you don't like being that person, anyways, but you think you have to because it'll help you because you, you know, you know so much. So if you look at like say, um you have a mind like a newborn baby, but you happen to be driving an RV with a boat, right? And you happen to you you happen to know that through learned experience, like how to drive one of those and everything. But you have no idea because your mind is like an innocent baby about what anyone else should be fucking doing out there. What anything means, nothing. So look at how it is. It's like he's behind me, now he's beside me, now he's in front of me. No problem.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Thank you for showing me that you can't pass on that corner. Yeah, I would have never known that.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Right. Wow, I would have never known you could do that. It's fucking awesome. Now, you know, that doesn't mean I find myself like deliberately putting myself in a situation where it seems like it might be unsafe. Like, for instance, I've seen the bike riders riding around the roads around here, and uh, and I'm like, what in the world? There's there's no bike lane. There's like, and it's a two-lane thing, right? And I'm just looking at that and I'm like, count me out of that. You know, I'm not getting on a bike and riding on that thing. Um, but as far as what they should be doing, as far as like whatever that, whatever their uh trajectory is, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

Interesting term, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah. Well, it's like it's like you set the it's like the the play gets set in motion, like I am such and such. So then I go out on a trajectory, you know. I am uh I I am a man or woman, and I like to get exercise and I want to ride bikes and ride it over here. And oh, there's no bike lane. Okay, no problem. I ride it right here. That's cool. Uh it's just letting everything unfold. And you know what? The funny thing is, like now that I said that and had that experience where I thought, count me out of that. What's really common that happens for me is I find myself doing something like that. Like, I don't even know how I get into it or anything.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

I just can see how it is.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah, let's uh go see how it actually is to be riding on a bike without a bike lane on a two-lane road. That's that's windy road. Yes, very windy. Uh, and on and right at the side of a cliff. I mean, I'm sure it's a rush. I'm sure it's awesome. You get cars passing you real close. You you you know, you get this rush. Like, am I gonna go tumbling off the cliff right now? Yeah. So anytime I find myself in a situation where it seems like that I'm getting shock value, like maybe I find myself lost or something like that. You know, it's like before trying to get myself out of it or find my way out of it or following thoughts,

Stop Measuring Progress By Reactions

SPEAKER_01 18:30

it's like really coming back into the moment and recognizing what this is for. So I can get all of the gifts out of the moment. That's the thing. We go to sleep about things and like for instance, about what someone else should be doing on the road. And then the shock in the nervous system actually turns out to be more uh like with effects that are more like seeming damaging to the nervous system, to the heart, to the whole system, because it wasn't actually allowed. See, allowing it involves not projecting. The projecting shuts it down. It kind of like tries to repress it. So it this is reprogramming everything when you're when you're willing to embrace it in this way. It's almost like your nervous system gets a cue to relax and not guard so much. What I notice is the more the guards are let down, the more I can see. The more the resistance is let down, right? And that all has to do with it's not about managing your actions or anything like that. It all has to do with seeing. Notice how you react to things that arise in the field, things that seem to be scary. Your bank account seems to be low, for instance. That's another one, right? You seem to have not had enough money for the bills this month. That's another one. This is a felt reaction, and it's habitual, it's programmed in. You can say it kind of like rides on the genes. I mean, you're projecting the genes and the history and everything, too, but that's just to illustrate what a strong illusion it seems to be. That doesn't mean it's any stronger than the weakest one, though, because it is an illusion. It's actually weak. The the making it strong in the field for yourself, for the programming, is to make it look like particular illusions are harder to dissolve than others. They're actually not, they're actually all the same. So you see how if you made something really hardwired to your mind, it would seem like that was gonna be a hard one to see through. Right? Like, let's say uh there's plenty of people that are like, no, I'm good with being pissed off at people who drive dangerous on the road. Okay. Yeah, I'm fucking good here. See what I mean? Those ones, it's like just let them be good with it. They're they're let them do their thing, they'll come back around when they do. Doesn't need to be your concern. Uh uh guys, guys like Billy. This guy wants to see. He's he wants to, he like he says, wake up. Okay, let's go on that a little bit. So he he told me a story about uh about a spiritual teacher that him and Casey were going to, and she would have weekends re weekend retreats and say, and they'd be like a bunch of money, thousands of dollars or something, and it'd be like Everyone's gonna wake up at this retreat. And he'd say at the end of the weekend, everyone would just be like hugging and shaking hands and leaving, and no one's woke up. Well, here's the thing

Waking Up Is Claiming It

SPEAKER_01 22:10

about waking up. We talked about this last week. What we're set calling waking up. This is really willingness to claim your awakeness right now. Okay. You have to be willing to claim that you are, in fact, awake. Look, no one's asleep. Okay. The thing that's sleeping is an illusion. You are not an illusion. So no one's asleep in the first place to get awakened. All right. That's that's something that that cannot be promised to anyone because they choose it. I can't do it to you. You know, Billy, I think he was joking. He said he's gonna come over here and I'm gonna heal him, you know. Uh, I think he was joking about that. It's like it's like this. In my perspective, in my point of view, Billy is fucking around. All right. He doesn't have a body at all. He's just fucking around and he's pretending like he's he's got a problem, like this is a problem. And really, the perception, when I have a perception of him telling me, like the evidence I have is he tells me stories that he's got a bad heart, right? And uh, and I notice sometimes he seems to be out of breath, but sometimes I seem to be out of breath too. So I really can't draw any conclusions from any of this shit, right? I mean, he might show me evidence and all this other stuff, and then I would be like, oh, okay, yeah, in the dream, it definitely seems like you have this. But to me, the only seeming is some story he told me. I don't know. Uh, and then also I know that any perception that he's getting, if he's getting a perception that he's having a heart transplant, that is awesome because of what it's for. That does not mean you have to accept that having heart problems is just the way it is. There is no heart problem because there is no body or heart to begin with. There it just isn't. There isn't a thing like this. The problem is an idea of separation that makes these illusions. That's not to say you shouldn't go take care of it, do your paperwork to get a heart transplant and all that kind of stuff. It's just a different way of looking at it. So it's not looking at it as, gosh, I hope this uh heart transplant works out and I hope this goes this way and this goes this way. It's more like, oh, okay, this I know what this is for, and you're excited about what it's for because it's helping you to undo the illusion, right? What are all illusions for, anyways? It's for the Holy Spirit's use, right? The Holy Spirit's use. So if there's some kind of sickness, if there's some kind of sickness presenting itself, I know that's a defense against the truth. That doesn't mean it's wrong, it's just something that the Holy Spirit can use. The Holy Spirit can use that form to express, to extend love, right? To teach. So that's the form of it. Do you have to keep it? No. Are you gonna keep it? You're gonna keep it as long as you believe that you want illusions more than you want the truth. So when you find yourself driving around and getting reactive in that moment, that's where you recognize what that is. And just recognizing it, not it not changing the reaction or anything, just in recognizing it, your mind is taught. It's basically seeing, uh, it's basically seeing what's actually true. You have to demonstrate it to yourself. When you when you just know it conceptually and you haven't demonstrated it to yourself, you're just gonna repeat the same reactions over and over again and not get any real healing. You can go lifetimes without getting any real healing, right? So once the end of learning comes, once the end of the learning process comes, then that's not the end of healing, right? There's still healing going on. And what you're doing is you're discovering, you're opening up to even more freedom in your mind and more authentic. Authenticity is freedom, more authentic ways of being, right? Authentic authenticity, like you're not trying to manage yourself for what you think to be is the benefit of others. Okay, people benefit from your gratitude. It's like, wow, you don't even have to go outside of that, you just stay there. So you don't have to figure out what to say. You just let the words come in the moment, right? You don't have to think about it. Anytime you're thinking about how a conversation's gonna go or how a conversation has gone, just let there be kind of like uh an alarm in your mind that just tells you that you're thinking against yourself. Because by doing that, you're demonstrating to your mind that you're not gonna have what you need in the moment that you need it. So you gotta pre-plan for it. Yeah, I'm gonna take one moment, I'll be right back. I didn't bring my water over here.

Retirement Without Pressure

SPEAKER_01 28:37

So that brings me to retirement plans, okay? Nothing wrong with having a retirement plan, nothing wrong with having like what people call a nest egg in the bank and all of that kind of stuff. There's this idea, like there's gonna be a time when you're not going to be able to earn, right? And so you have to have it stocked up. That idea is something that's programmed into us. We do not really have to earn. We do not really, none of us do. No one, no one has to earn because everything is given to us. We just don't see it. That's why we get the perception of this earning thing. So, what happens is people kind of bury themselves by working a bunch so they can get ready for retirement. And I've seen this go really awry for people, where by the time they get to retirement, they're not feeling well. Going through this whole process to try to get to this place where they can do all the things that they like to do, and then they can't do the sh shit they like to do. And it's as if it's going through all these years of training. You know, we get trained for it in school, we get trained for it by uh our parents, just observing our parents, that we are responsible for our own sustenance in the world, that we are really responsible for it. And, you know, I I know how carefree I was when I was like a teenager and in my early 20s, before I got even more conditioned in the world, how I was not concerned about how things would come to me. Sure, I would go out and I would get a job. I would just apply for a job and get a job, and that would be that would just be okay, not feeling like I have to do anything else, you know. And then once I met my husband and got married and started having a house and kids and stuff like that, that kind of bug started to catch on. It was like, whoa, uh, what am I what am I doing? Like, am I saving enough? Am I am I doing this enough? And it was pressure, and that pressure was stress. See, it doesn't need to be like that. It could just be listening in the moment for whatever it is that you need to buy, whatever it is that you need to save, and coming from a sense of relaxation. Really, the motions can look the same where you're going to work and you're saving money. But this internal pressure, calculations, and all that kind of stuff, you don't know what's truly useful of you, except in the moment it's shown to you. You know, and really what is your sustenance is being truly helpful. It really is. Whatever it may look like, however, it may come, it may come from a job. But your sustenance comes from being truly helpful. And financial is only one aspect of it. You know, people think that if I just get the financial locked in, then I can take care of my health, and then I can take care of my love life, and I could take care of my spirituality, right? It's all on the shoulders of a false person. It's a it's a false thing. It doesn't have to be like that. It's more like how a plant just grows. You know, it's like just in allowing it to be innocently it. I'm saying it because it is not you, allowing it to be innocently as it is without the pressure. The only pressure that ends up on you comes from you. You taught yourself that you need pressure, right? Like if I don't do this, this won't happen. Remember, it's okay if that doesn't happen. You may still be doing that thing, but you'll be doing it without the pressure, right? It's like it doesn't have to manifest. Billy was getting the barbecue ready earlier, you know, and it's like he's getting the barbecue ready so we could have a barbecue because we plan on having a barbecue right after wisdom dialogues here. And I go, it doesn't matter if we have a barbecue or not. You know, it is there's no pressure. And so when there's no pressure, even when he finds himself working on it, there's less uh there's less of a chance of even like making little stupid mistakes and stuff like that. All of that kind of stuff comes from pressure, and we feel pressure easily, and and and a lot of the times it goes unnoticed, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:17

I looked at it, yeah, it started working.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

You just looked at it and it's working. Nice, I love it. The rest of the time you just sat out there looking at the lake. Yeah. No thing at all. So it's fun. Billy's back. He came back uh when did you come back? Wednesday night. He came back Wednesday night, so we've been sp here like four nights or something, and we're uh we're actually like really good at being roommates together because we're both easygoing about shit, and we're both uh wired it with the sense like we're not being a good enough roommate, like we're not picking up after ourselves enough. You know, we don't have that dynamic where one of us feels like we're better at it, so we're condemning the other one, right? Or telling the other one you should do it like this or something. So uh so there were dishes in the sink last night. I saw them last night. I was like, I'll uh stack the dishwasher in the morning. So uh so I I stacked it up and or stacked it in the dishwasher. Billy came out and I hear him sigh. I'm like, what's going on, Billy? And he goes, Oh, I was gonna I was gonna wash those dishes, but I see you already did it. And I'm like, Yeah, it's easy. I just put them in the dishwasher dirty. I don't even rinse them. He's like, oh, he's like, he's he's like, KC makes me rinse them off, you know. And I and I go, I know that and we were talking about it, we were like, oh yeah, that was the old way, probably, where the dishwashers were older, and you had to at least scrape your food off of them. Now they're like built in, you just put all your food in there, it's totally easy, and uh and and anyone can just walk by and load the dishwasher and not feel like they're fucking being burdened by doing it. But yeah, I gotta say, at first when I was used to people taking care of the cleaning around me when I first went out out on my own, it was kind of like I didn't know what to do. But then I got really used to it. I got used to it really fast. You know, at first it was just kind of like, hmm, uh what do I even do? Like, what's the most efficient way to before I get up and start doing something like, hmm? I mean, in Mexico, I always had a maid. That's how it is in Mexico. You rent a place, it comes with a maid. They come in once a week.

Relationships As Mirrors At Home

SPEAKER_01 37:31

So it's the relationships where we undo everything. It's together, it's through our relating because we are mirroring one another. So it's like, yes, we go together, and it's through our gratitude for our brothers that we learn. It's through our gratitude, right? We could learn another lesson, but we don't really want it. That would be a lesson like uh condemnation, and it's always self-condemnation, right? Whenever we're trying to convince another person, like you know, maybe you chase that guy down, probably not with your R V, but chase that guy down. Do you realize that you could yeah? And you know, it's like sometimes people need that, and they're gonna get that if they need it. It's just that they don't have to have any conflict with you. You're not the one, you're not the one that needs to chase them down and tell them about how they've done something wrong. Someone will do that if they need that, but they're you know, they're also in a phase where they're learning to see the world in separation, right? They're also likely in a phase like that. So your phase is seeing the world. You may be done learning, and you are done learning. If you're aware what your function is in the moment, if you're aware what your function is, you're done learning. You just keep on doing your function, no matter what arises, and no exceptions.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Forgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Yes, forgiveness. That's right. Forgiveness, forgiveness is automatic when you're certain of your function.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Yeah, it's it like you talked about before, forgiveness before, before anything even arises. You already know it's forgiven, and you already know you're gonna forgive it. So it's forgiven before it ever occurs. You know, even if you find yourself reacting to something, you know ultimately it's forgiving, it's forgiven. You know, what you might not have seen is that what needs to be forgiven is the idea that that dude could really do anything, right? Because it's because that's the threat. The whole threat needs to be undone. The threat of something going wrong needs to be undone in your mind because that's what's actually projecting things going wrong, and that's what's actually projecting time. Oh, Celeste is on. Celeste said, You got me. I'm the one who always thinks she knows the best way to clean, organize, and plan the upkeep of the house. There's all there's uh airways, oh, there's always, I think she means juicy illusions of control for me to undo in this department. Even you said you load the dishwasher without rinsing, made my body shudder a little and say, ew, and then she's laughing. I know, and you know what? I'm running a risk right now that KC's gonna hear this and she's gonna go, you're not allowed to put shit in my dishwasher like that. And you know what? I'm just gonna say okay, and then I'll probably do it anyway. No, she tells me she doesn't want me to do it. I won't, I don't care. I don't care what I'm doing. If I'm scraping food off of dishes, if I gotta do that before they go in the dishwasher, another awesome solution will pop up. Maybe I'll have like a bucket and I'll have all this warm water in it. Yeah. Go old school, make less dishes. I don't know. Yeah. Good. I like that, Celeste. That's fun. See, a lot of the times people are afraid of how other people are gonna look at them. So they're even afraid to say something that they do that other people might might be like, Wow, I really, you know, now I don't respect you as much or something like that. I freaking love it. I I love it when that happens, you know. Uh sometimes sometimes I've it's been a little while now, but I've had people um get on me about the F-word flying out of my mouth, right? No fucking way. No fucking way. But that is becoming way more mainstream. I noticed when I went out to eat with Billy and his granddaughter, his granddaughter's in college, what is she, 18 or something, 19? 18.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

She's gonna be 19 in June.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah, she's gonna be 19 in June. She's saying the F-word in front of her grandpa, in front of me at the restaurant. She seems to me to me to be kind of like uh like a straight edge kind of kid who just makes really good grades, isn't into boys or anything like that. But the F-word still flies. So that's fun because it wasn't too many years ago where uh people were actually like seriously telling me that the F word coming out of my mouth meant that I wasn't that spiritual. Yeah, that that definitely all I could do was just laugh really deeply when someone would tell me something like that. I didn't really have a comment about it. Celeste says, Yes, it's really that playful in the kingdom of heaven. I don't care what I'm doing. Yeah. Exactly. It's like, I don't really care what I'm doing. I don't mind whatever it is. And at the same time, if you ask me, you know, do you want to go over here or over here? I might have a preference. I might not. I might have a preference, but that preference still is not meaningful to me. It's part of the play. Whatever it is that I seem to be doing, and even whatever it is that I seem to be going through, if it seems like it's something that's intense or anything like that, or some kind of perception that hurts, I know what it's for. So bringing it to the truth, basically the truth is nothing can be threatened. You are the truth. The truth cannot be threatened. What you're doing is you're discovering how to hold illusions with awareness of the truth. But the time for learning, that for a lot of you guys has probably been done. It's probably been done, but you haven't believed it because you've perceived yourself reacting when you think you should have known better. See, so then so then the ego uses that to kick you back into learning mode. Like you just have to consume more and more and more. So what you do is you stop letting it justify. You stop letting that feeling be justified by anything in the field by interrupting the thought pattern. And the way you interrupt it is you interject reason. It's like this isn't even reasonable for me to be projecting here. It's not helping anything. If I'm projecting that whatever they're doing is dangerous, that can only bring me more illusions of danger. I it's like, you know, you go, I don't know. I don't know what anything means.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

I don't know what this particular thing means.

Dependency Programs And Substances

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Like, you know, if you take acid, for instance, or some kind of poison or something like that, the effects are still not coming from those particular things, they're all coming from feelings. All effects are coming from feelings, and the things that seem to have effects are also effects. The thing that seems to have effects, so let's say acid on the body, acid is already an effect of the mind. So even when you take any kind of substance, like let's say caffeine, to get a little jolt, to get a little movement or whatever, and you and you see the effects of the caffeine. Remember the caffeine itself, the coffee, the cup of coffee, the caffeine that's in the coffee, it is an effect of your mind. So you put it there. That's why I don't notice any difference. Like, I'll be drinking caffeine. I think I drank caffeine for like nine months. Maybe I had a couple breaks in there just because uh I'm not like, okay, I gotta have my caffeine. It's like the routine changes because I traveled and I forget about it. But for about nine months I was having caffeine consistently. And in a moment, I was like, I'm not gonna do that anymore. And I think I had a I had it like two more times just to make sure I really wasn't, yeah, it's just not not that appealing to me anymore. And don't notice any kind of difference. Whenever I quit smoking spliffs, I don't notice any kind of difference. I travel, maybe I'll be in a place where it's not comfortable for the people where I'm staying. I could just tell sometimes, and I and I and I'm just like, nah, I don't need to. Um no problem. There might be an there might be an instance where I'll think about it and go, oh yeah, that would be nice, and then it'll just pass. I kind of look at stuff like that as a given. It's like, oh, it's available right now. This is a given, it's available right now. Do I have to keep it going? No. Is it okay if it goes away? Yeah, I'm the same. That is huge that I noticed for people is this dependency, and it really shows up in pharmaceutical drugs. People take pharmaceutical drugs, right? It's it's like if they don't have access to their pharmaceutical drugs, something really bad is gonna happen or is bound to happen. That's their idea, right? That is a dependency program, and you can get dependent on anything. You can get dependent on your clothes, right? And these these are just thoughts that pass me. You don't you don't really get dependent. It's like that's a better way to say that it is you followed patterns of thought over and over and over again that kind of make it made it like a concrete pattern in your mind where it just gets to be automatic that you believe you're dependent on certain things. You know, this clicked into me one time when I just heard a person at a kava bar, uh uh kava slash smoothie bar talking about yerba mate, which I've had yerba mate before too. It seems like to kind of like be the cocaine of teas. It's a trip. You drink that stuff and it's like, whoa, dude, ooh, that's good. I drank that stuff for years too. And and and then at one time just wasn't appealing to me anymore. But I heard someone go, yeah, I can make it through this lifetime as long as I have a Yurba Mate, right? And he was really like the way you said it was really sincere. And and I noticed that pretty much everyone has at least one thing that feels like that, that seems like that. And you know, it's not really true, and it doesn't set up set you up for having more joy with that thing, actually. It doesn't actually let you enjoy that thing as much if it seems like you're dependent on it. Oh, okay, I can make it, I have this thing. That is a really common pattern that people do. So one of the one of them I gave you was prescription drugs, right? If I don't have this thing, I'm in trouble. So then that goes to now the prescription drugs are getting expensive. What if I don't have enough money? Now I need to figure out how I'm going to save my life, right? This is not the way we're created. We're not created to have to be dependent on the world for anything in any way, right? We don't really, we don't need to be dependent on the sun rising. I mean it. We are not dependent on anything, it's all dependent on us, it's the other way around. So look, when you when you're getting the perception that you need something, maybe it's a particular lotion to meet for me when I fall into it, it it has to do with particular skincare stuff, right? It's like, can I get my skincare stuff that I like over there? Right. Uh that's like like, and so that's where I bring that to the truth. And notice I'm taken care of, even in that department, it does whatever I need. And and and even as far as any kind of skincare stuff or anything like that, I don't know what I need. I have no idea. And any in any interaction where I go and and buy the product, buy it online, anything like that, it's all for the same thing. So this thought that we're dependent on these things is the opposite of how it actually is. These things are dependent on us making them mean anything. If they don't mean anything, they don't, if they don't mean anything to us, they have no life because they don't have any life of their own. As an illusion, I mean all of it is life. But as the illusions that you perceive them as, those don't have any life of their own, you're the one actually propping it up. They, those illusions, like let's say the illusion of not having enough money, it's dependent on you. That's what's really going on here. You're not dependent on it. The scenario where you might not be able to afford your prescription drugs, that scenario is dependent on you. You're reacting to it, you're holding it in your experience. In the first place, you don't need anything from this world. You actually have no needs that aren't met right now. And so you could meet the world from that perspective, that I have no needs that are not already met. What's going on is people are meeting each other from a sense of need, right? We're meeting each other from this sense of need. I'm even if I'm giving you, let's say I'm giving you something, I'm gifting you something. If it's coming from a sense of need, like you're gonna give this to me, it's not the same thing. And that uh, you know, largely includes our time. You know, the ego would have us choosing to give our time where it could seem uh to be a benefit for us and not a threat. When we're not listening to the ego like that and don't really care in those kinds of terms, whether it's a benefit to us or a threat, then the Holy Spirit has us interacting with whoever needs us because their needs are being fulfilled through us. All of our needs are being fulfilled through one another.

Needs Are Met And Abundance

SPEAKER_01 56:41

That's why we're never without what we need. We 100% have it all of the time. So take someone who seems to be homeless. For the most part, what you're finding as a mindset is their needs are not being met. So a lot of the times they're hot, they're holding signs and they're trying to get money because they think they need money, right? But really, money comes from even money comes from being aware that your needs are met. Because look, if your needs are met, you're like, oh, well, if the money isn't in my pocket right now to buy food, right, or whatever it is they seem to want to buy in that moment, then I don't need that in the moment. Let me see how I can be helpful in uplifting the world. Let me see how I could be helpful in that. You're just like, you're automatically fed. And, you know, this is something I have experience with too, having grown up as a Christian missionary. That's how we focused our day. It was like we're, you know, we're out witnessing. Asking for donations, yes, we're asking for donations, but knowing that the Lord supplies everything. This is what I was taught from when I was a kid. So it was easy for me to integrate it again to just come because I felt it. I didn't have the burden, I didn't have that sense. I was out witnessing, I didn't know how much money I was bringing in or anything, you know. They'd tell me at the end, you know, uh, it's like I noticed sometimes people will give me $20 and stuff like that, you know. But it wasn't like my parents had a bank account. They didn't have a bank account where they went and stored up money. It was like you do your witnessing, and you know, sometimes the witnessing, maybe the witnessing uh didn't bring in enough money for food, then the next thing you know, we show up at a restaurant, tell them we're missionaries, and ask them if they want to give us some food. And then they usually do. When I was a young girl, I got my really first taste of manifestation where I just kind of said, Oh, right. I I saw some boots on a person just outside, and the thought occurred to me that I would like to have some boots like that. And then the thought disappeared. And then in a few days or a week or something, we were doing something for orphans where we were bringing, we were getting shoes that they couldn't sell at shoe stores to bring them to orphanages. And we'd sing for the orphanages and everything, witness to them. Well, there was a pair of boots in there that was my size. So obviously, I'm like, oh, I get I get those boots. You know, it's like when when we're getting the donations of the shoes, we can keep whatever shoes we need. We don't have uh a bunch of shoes, like we don't have a bunch of places to store up shoes. It's kind of like you use whatever you're using right there, maybe two pairs or something, and uh and move on and pass them on again. So I saw that I really don't have to do anything. It's like everything is just given, and it's not like it's not like uh the ego thinks, oh, I can get extreme, I can, I can accumulate, I can get all these things, I can get uh I can get all these riches, I can use manifestation like that. No, it's it's way more innocent, you could say, where you're not trying or you're not trying to get things for yourself, you're just recognizing that it's already taken care of. Your happiness is already taken care of. And in as much as you're willing to see that what's manifesting is a blessing, your happiness is guaranteed. So when you just have like this whim, like, oh, that sounds really great, that is the happiness extending right there. You don't need a manifestation to arise. They're not all arising, like just all everything. Oh, neat, neat, neat, all coming in, right? But it's just it's just unfolding in a way that can be surprising in a happy way, allowing it to be surprising, not knowing. See, that's different, like with the example with the boots. That's so different from okay, how can I earn the boots? That thought did not cross my mind. How can I earn the boots? Right? I didn't really grow up with earning like people grew up with earning, not at a very young age, anyways. Things kind of things shifted a little bit after that, but it was just like I don't have to do anything for for it. It's just a magical unfolding. And when I would go out witnessing, they would give me what they'd call shiner prize for going out witnessing for hours. And I'd get little things like that and just be really happy with all of the little things that come in the moment. I don't have to have ownership of everything, I don't have to have a huge bank account where I'm guaranteed that I'm gonna keep on getting what I want all the time. I think it's really fun to run out, actually, like run out of money. It's fun. It's like, oh, there's another, there's a different turn. And and you know, if you uh if you need a job, like if I like for instance, me, if I need a job, it's just gonna be shown to me. Here it is, here's a playful job, right? It's like just keep on being willing to be helpful, and and again, how do you be helpful? How do you truly be helpful? You're aware of your own unwatched, largely, largely unwatched, you're starting to watch your unwatched mind. Where are you going through it? Where are you projecting some kind of let's say meanness? The I know the ego will bring up things from the past where you've been hurt or you've been slighted, and replay the scenario. That's where you bring it to reason. I know it's not the easiest thing because the thought wants to hook you into believing that if you think about it, you're gonna make it better. Or maybe you'll make better choices next time. One guy asked me what my thoughts on something like this is. You should be in gratitude, and then you should also not share with people certain things that would make them envious or anything like that. And that's a subtle way where it's using management, like you're trying to manage so you don't hurt other people's feelings. It's kind of like dimming your light. It's not saying you should say anything or shouldn't say anything, it's just that you can't be in gratitude while you're trying to manage how other people are reacting. You're managing your actions or your words to try to get the right reflection from them.

Deductive Reasoning Over Manifesting

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

And the way most people go about their spirituality is what I learned from the last ACIM deep dive is called inductive reasoning. So, inductive reasoning is where you do all this vision board stuff and you want to manifest all this stuff, and then you look at the outer manifestation, and from that you deduct how you're doing with your manifest, with your manifesting, with your spirituality. So you're if you look at the manifestation to determine. How you're doing, that is what that is what's called inductive reasoning. So you're using all of the different manifestations to come up with one generalized idea of how you're doing in your spirituality. So what Jesus was talking about was deductive reasoning. All you're doing is bringing the foundational truth. That's the one generalization that nothing real can be threatened. You're real, and nothing real can be threatened. You're bringing that one general generalization to all of the individual manifestations. See, that's different than using the perception as uh basically a dark mirror to show you how you're doing by what's manifesting. So looking at it the other way around is the one generalization is that none of this is real, none of this can touch me, none of this can harm me. I'm the truth, and meeting everything like that. See, instead of using it to tell you what you are. Sometimes that drives people nuts too, because you know, they're used to seeing things a certain way, they're used to seeing things uh on a guilty as a guilty way. And you know, I've had someone in this past week tell me that I mean something in a certain way, and I go, okay, well, that's not how it is for me, but I don't mind if you keep that. And the person kept on and kept on pushing me, and I'm looking at that and I'm going, man, that's like gibberish. You can't even understand what a person is saying when they're trying to project. That's why people cannot understand each other when we're trying to project that someone is somehow flawed, right? It's somehow flawed. It was like this this idea, you know, like I'm popular. I don't know, he according to him, like uh like a famous person or something like that, and super sneaky and have this underhanded idea and just all these strange um perceptions about what I'm trying to do and how I'm trying to do things. And and you know, for me, I was just like, okay, are you willing to have a conversation with me? And and the answer was no, because it was just kept on being projections. Um, and I go, okay, well, you know, I appreciate you. Thank you for for relating with me. Have a great day. And then I just stopped talking to that

Boundaries With People Who Project

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

person. You know, it's like it's like the ego will go, they need help, they need help, they need help. That person definitely seemed like they need help. They kind of seemed like they were possessed, you know, they definitely seemed like they were, they needed some help. But the way they were uh wanting to use me as the uh target for self-attack, it wasn't going to be able to come from me. They would need to learn it more in my absence. So if you have any, and you know, this is really common, especially when you can see when someone's suffering, you can see when someone's calling for love. They're not necessarily, doesn't necessarily mean that you're the one that needs to engage them. You may only be called to engage them a little bit. And that's what I notice about listening to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit may call me to engage them initially, but that's not necessarily gonna be continuing, and I don't want it to continue any longer than I'm getting the guidance. So I don't even go into it with a particular outcome in mind. It's only about listening to the Holy Spirit. And someone coming from a divided and projecting state of mind like that can only see this range of emotions that the ego has from suspicious to vicious. That's the only way they can interpret anything. So, my if I were to continue to just demonstrate sweetness, sweetness, sweetness, what I was shown was that wasn't helpful because they were just gonna keep on using it for projection, anyways. You can say you came to save the world. What are you saving it from? You're saving it from your misinterpretation, is what you're saving it from. So you don't need to try to save any individual person that seems like they like this person, seemed like he really wanted to relate with me. He kept on messaging me, right? Uh, they may they may be um accusing you of if you don't interact with them, you're somehow avoiding or doing something else, some kind of bad thing in their mind. Doesn't matter. Still listen to the Holy Spirit. When it's time to be done with the conversation, you can be done with the conversation. And this in this case, the person was messing me up, messaging me a bunch. And the guidance in that moment was just to block the person. Then I don't see any more messages because that had played out. It went to um, it went to the end of that. But for me, whenever I find myself in something like that where someone's hardcore accusing me of doing something super evil, what I'm what I'm noticing is number one, taking time between seeing the message and responding to be centered. Because the very first thing is usually the ego speaking. And I had one man say to me uh recently in a comment how um there's no hope for me. Um, you know, maybe these other people are gonna get it, but there's no hope for me, right? And I noticed the immediate reaction when I saw that there's no hope for me, the immediate reaction was some kind of fight about that. And I knew that wasn't true. So I rested uh before responding and looked at the rest of the comment to just kind of like overlook that person, that part of it where I'm not uh I there's no hope for me. And so overlook that part of it. And then what I saw was what he shared was something that showed me why his comments kept on coming from misinterpretation, because he thought I wanted to be the boss bitch, and he that's what he was going against. He thought I wanted to be the boss bitch, and so and so then I was just like, oh, I see why you're having that misinterpretation. No, I'm not saying I want to be that at all. It's not like it's not a choice between two things, uh the these two things. It's not a choice between either being the boss bitch in the relationship, in a romantic relationship, or else being like subservi subservient to some immature dude. It's not a choice just between those two things. There's another way to relate, right? So people are sometimes automatically assuming that what I'm saying is girl power, girl power, feminism, be the boss bitch. No, I'm not talking about that at all. I'm talking about undoing roles that we're assigning to each other based on how we've been conditioned because we think we're dependent on one another, like we need one another. We do not need one another in the way that we need an individual person. We need one another. Yes, we do. We need one another so we could see past our illusions. We do not need them to survive. This uh it's this idea of earning and surviving. We do not need anyone for that, to the extent that we're resting in our own abundance, the abundance of what we are, and sharing our gifts as called. And this is easeful, it's not hard at all because it's as called, it's in the moment, and we're and and we're knowing that our sustenance, that all abundance comes from our source, we're not gonna feel like we're lacking anything. And lack is a feeling. This lacking, it's a feeling. That's all it is. So for me, the way I undone the way I undid that sense of lack, and it doesn't matter what I seem to see, how much money I seem to have, anything like that, it's a feeling. And when I noticed that that feeling was repeating over and over and over again, this lack feeling, and that I was feeding it in reacting to it, I just eventually stopped doing that. I just very calmly can recognize this part of a pattern and recognize it as part of a pattern and meet it as who I am with gratitude that it's coming up. I can help undo this for the world. Now you see how there's not even anyone around me, potentially, when I'm thinking about something like that, and it's coming up and I'm healing it, right? There's not there's maybe no one around me, but still the relationship comes into play, the relationship with everyone, the relationship with all. I'm glad I'm getting a worldly perception right here because I know it's not true. I'm not gonna try to justify that feeling by thinking about how I'm gonna change my financial situation. I know that any changes that need to occur will occur when they need to. So it just makes it very easeful. It makes it very easeful with uh, you know, money. In this case, I'm giving you an example, but really I'm talking about dependency and abundance, and we're either in one of those or the other. Dependency is basically lack, right? Anytime we hope for something in the perception to go a certain way, that is also an effect of being dependent, believing that that you're dependent on something, you're dependent on the weather, you're dependent on this thing having a particular outcome this particular way. And when you when you're demonstrating to your mind that you're not dependent on anything, it feels scary to an ego. Because now there's nothing for the ego to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:09

There's no planning for it to do.

Guidance For Travel And Relationships

SPEAKER_01 1:18:12

Like even when you need to book a plane ticket, like let's say, by the way, I'm going back to Hawaii on the 14th, May 14th. Be there till September probably. Uh, you you know, when it's time to book a ticket, you just it's time to book a ticket. I noticed that with Facebook comments too. It's like I don't go into it with a sense like I'm gonna teach anyone anything or I'm gonna do anything. I don't even open it, I don't even look at the comments until there is a call, a pull. You could say it's from the Holy Spirit. This is also an aspect of ourselves, and we get to recognize what it feels like to be called or pulled by the Holy Spirit into any form of action. It feels easeful, you get to know the tone of it, and then you don't act, you don't move until you get that call. I noticed that with the with the trip that was planned for Mississippi, too. You know, the day before I was gonna go to Mississippi, I could just notice in my body's energy field without knowing anything, I did not feel like I was going to Mississippi. It didn't feel like that, even though all of the evidence showed I had an email from the airline. It seemed to be a great relationship I was having with the sweetie over at over on the east coast and having uh regular conversations and regular sweet texts and everything. Seemed like both of us looking forward to this great time. And the day before, it was like, I don't just do not get the sense that I need to pack right now. You know, it's just like waiting for the Holy Spirit to say, when I it's like it sounds funny when you say it, let's just say when I need to pack, but really it's a sense like okay, it's time for that now. This is where it's time for that, not making uh the world into the judge, you could say, okay, it's getting close. You better get ready. It's like, no, and I'm not feeling that at all. And so then the next day it was canceled. The next morning it was canceled before I packed anything. And I gotta say, when it was canceled, I was like, ah, I was glad. I was glad. Even though I was like, I was excited about doing the Mississippi thing too. It's like, ah that's what I noticed about anything that I seem like I'm gonna do, once it's like, even if it seems like it's a big thing, a big move, or anything like that, when it stops, there's a there's a sense of relief. Same thing with relationships. Even if it seems like I really want that relationship to continue, and then it stops, there's like a sense of relief. It's like, oh, there's some uh some of the mental chatter is just there's been space now, right? Maybe not right away. Your mind might be churning about why'd they leave me, why'd they leave me like that, or whatever the story is. One of my friends this this week had her, dude, leave her while she was out of the state, right? Is he left her note, put a note on her butt on her bed, and I guess it was a sweet note. I I said on the bed, I don't know. Uh I guess it was a sweet note, and yeah, uh a nice long sweet note, and it was that was the end. He went to another state and and uh and he's gone. And you know, noticing some of the reaction, some of the reactions are like, isn't that a fucked up thing for someone to do? And you know, I heard that and I was like, well, what's a better way? You know, like I mean, I think I'd kind of like that. Oh, you don't want to be with me anymore? Wait till I'm on a trip and then move all your shit out. Write me a nice note. Put a couple hundred bucks in there too, if you want.

unknown 1:22:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:46

It's like there's no there's no loss in any of this. The time that we that's why, that's why I say, man, I just enjoy the time I get to spend with anyone because you don't fucking know anything could occur, right? And what's happening in in large part is humans are missing their whole life. Your life is through relating. So you're missing your life when your mind is somewhere else. I'm worried about finances, I'm worried about what people think, I'm worried about uh your love life or your health or anything like that. And you're not being in the moment with a person that is just passing through. When you're experiencing a person, it's like you're experiencing a portion of a river where you're right right where it's flowing in one part of a river. You know what I mean? It's never gonna be like that again. And and when you're experiencing people like that, like for me, when they're gone, I feel more celebratory than anything because I feel complete. I feel complete with the relating as it is, right? And and like with the guy I was going to meet in Mississippi, I had been talking with him for a month, you know, we've been relating for a month. It's like I feel complete. He was cute. We had some fun conversations. Um, each one, I just feel complete. And so when it was like, oh, there's we're not doing that. Apparently, there's some kind of an emergency. I got the uh I got the perception, intuition, whatever you want to call it. There isn't really an emergency. It was just like, holy shit, what am I getting into? But I did end it, I did end up with some flight credits, which was also a funny part of the story. I mean, you know, it's like it's it's like, oh, here you go, here's some flight credits. You know, you could use this for flying around doing your thing. It just unfolds the way it needs to to bring about all the lessons. And one thing that I saw really clearly, and I was talking with Ann about this. Thank you, Lily. I was talking with Anne about this, is man, I really do not care where whether I stay or go. I like I don't have uh, I don't have a sense like I want to be there or I want to be here. I just want to be wherever I am. Thank you. I want to be um, I want to be present for wherever I am. It doesn't really matter where I am, it doesn't really matter who I'm with because, and this was this is really scary for the ego, you know, because I know that people are only manifesting in my field if they're resonant with me. So I don't have to be in any kind of control about that. All right, they're only gonna be able to manifest in my field if they're resonant with me. There's something there. What does it mean that they're resonant with you? There's something there that the Holy Spirit can use for teaching and learning. So it's perfect. Does it mean that they're always gonna uh their their behavior is always gonna make me happy? No. Right? Am I always gonna be gratitude in gratitude for whatever I perceive? Yes. I'm not gonna be, you know, like let's say I thought something was like let's say I thought the guy leaving his chick while she's gone on a trip is a dick move. Let's say that. I'm not saying to bypass that. If you think it's a dick move, it's a dick move for to you. You don't have to condemn a person to do that. See that? You don't have to condemn a person to recognize that's a dick move, and that doesn't mean it's true. It wasn't it's you know, one person can have one perception, one person can have another perception. You know, I saw that, uh I heard that scenario and Natalie told that scenario, and I said, fuck, that's the best.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:18

Yeah. Um I I felt like it was um a really good opportunity. Like I know the behind the scenes of it where he knew how hard I worked for this trip to Sedona, and I just wanted to enjoy it. But he felt very guided. It's like it's our time is complete. Uh-huh. The timing, and it'll be way gentler to not have to see me move all my stuff, uh-huh, and all that stuff. Um so I feel like I'm being given like an opportunity to demonstrate, like when a bunch of people are like, Oh no, what happened? And I say how it went. Yeah, it's a way to demonstrate. You know, truth. Like, oh no, you know, this person didn't do anything wrong. Like, I really feel like they're just being called to a big demonstration of this.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:10

Well, yeah, you always are. You always are. And you know, it's basically being authentic with them uh how you see it. I mean, I mean, it's it's like it's like actually, I wouldn't prefer it another way. I mean, can you think of a better way? You know what I mean? It's like, can you think of a better way to just like really? I mean, that's also part of what's just being authentic, because what happens is people get their feelings hurt. So then they'll automatically start projecting, like, yeah, like something's wrong with him, you know, that he that he was leaving and it wasn't like the way, I don't know, some fairy tale way you want it to be. But that seems really good. But just, you know, and when you tell stories, here's another thing that really, really helps is when you tell stories if you're aware of your tone, because your tone can make a story feel like a tragedy or a comedy.

Healing Trauma By Seeing Innocence

SPEAKER_01 1:29:16

You notice that? Yeah, so so that was something I picked up on when I was really young. So so when I'm telling stories, they're always a comedy, right? I'm not telling tragic stories, and sometimes it trips people out because I may be talking about something like child molestation or something like that. And they're like, what in the world? You know, but uh but it it's it's really training our mind to see things differently, it's training our minds to see all these things that we prop up that look evil and everything like that. We're making the story up, right? Even when I remember child abuse being done to me as a kid, uh, in order to remember something that I have to recall something from a past that did not happen. So this kind of uh this is programming that's wired in as a memory that I was a child that was abused, right? There's a memory of it. That doesn't mean that you know you don't take care of the apparent child that seems to have been abused, but bring all these things to the truth too, that you're projecting it right now. When I really saw that I was projecting all of the abuse right now because I was persistent with willingness to see it, that's where I just felt compassion for everyone, everyone involved. That includes adults who um who seem to facilitate this kind of thing, um, condone it, whatever you want to say. And the ones who seem to carry it out, it's like compassion just flows naturally because you're seeing that you there's no way anyone did anything. See, you got to be willing to see this though. I know it sounds cool to tell your friends at first when you're newly spiritual that you know you nothing ever happened, but to see it, to actually see it this way, it's actually repetitive, where it's bringing back the relationship. It's brought back the relationship with me and my stepfather to have, you know, one example, until I was able to see. And then after that, there's not even a sense of me being slighted by him. There's not even a memory of him uh saying anything mean that stings me. You know, I'm sure if I look into it, I could recall a whole bunch of things. Like, let's say if I wanted to write a book about it or something, I can recall these terrible things that he said and did to me, right? But still, it doesn't matter how well you can even recall it. It is remembering and remembering all it is is bringing something from a time that does not exist and bringing it into the present. So noticing memories are like this when memories come up for you. Since you're recalling it and bringing it into the present, it's useful in the present, it's useful for undoing all of the upset feelings around it, around that whole scenario. And it comes to bringing it to the truth. I'm projecting this now and making this up. I'm making up that someone hurt me really bad and took away my innocence at a young age, and you recognize you're projecting that right now, and you don't want to do that to yourself anymore. The whole thing changed. I'm telling you this: you can change the past in the present. Because the past is something that you recall in your mind, and you actually change the past in the present. And so there's there is no more of these repetitive thoughts that come back and say how I was victimized by my stepdad. It's like that, once that was healed, it was healed. It's not like I have to repeat forgiveness about it. See, see, see what I mean? We're going back to collapsing time, collapsing patterns. The reason why I don't have to deal with thoughts about this that repeat again and again and make me into a victim and make me relive a scenario is that I saw the innocence in all of it. That's what collapsed it. So now this doesn't need to be played out again. I don't need to have another birth where we play this out. Maybe I'm the one who's the molester abuser this time, and he's the innocent little girl playing out these stories, right? What we want to do is put an end to these stories. We don't just want to soothe ourselves, right? We want to put an end to these stories. So being watchful to them churning around, coming back around, and showing how someone slighted us. For the longest time, I had this one that would just burn me up. This thought would just burn me up. I'd get this thought uh about my stepdad, like right after he apparently threw me on my head, and I ended up going to the hospital and getting all these stitches. In fact, I was reminded when I started parting my hair on the other side, one of the reasons I started parting parting my hair on the opposite side is a scar right here, where it tends to look like a bald spot sometimes, you know, depending on how my hair is laying. Uh so it's like I would recall uh repeatedly, and this happened when I was 10, apparently. So that's several decades of recalling. I don't think I got the victory on that one until I was probably in my 40s, maybe about 45 or so, maybe a little younger than that. So many uh meant for many decades, I would use this scenario where I would see myself getting thrown, becoming completely bloody, going to the hospital, getting stitches, my mom showing up, the doctor not bel, I could tell he didn't believe my mom when she said I tripped and fall and fell. But I also told him I tripped and fell because that's what I was told to do by my parents. And I was pretty shaken up since I just got hit on the head, right? Or I got I got thrown in my head. And the doctor telling my mom, you know, she is literally like a like less than a millimeter away from brain damage. And then going back in the car, and I get back in the car, and I'm in I go back in the car. He's the only one in the car. The person who just threw me, and he's the one in the only one in the car. So I get back in the car and he looks at me and he goes, and my head's shaved now, and I got stitches here. And he goes, That'll teach you to be a ratfink. That was the scenario that I kept bringing up year after year after year. I would lay in bed and I would be hot. I would feel hot. He's still so pissed. You know, how could he be ugh? Right, already threw me on my head. Already seems like he almost killed me, and then he's telling me I deserved it, basically. And that was what I used for years to um project, basically just keep on projecting it until the projection, and this is what happens, projections don't leave your mind, so it starts to hurt, and it hurts so much that at a point I had to scream to get the pain to be uh to be um gentle enough, I guess, gent not so intense, so that I could feel like uh not jumping off a cliff or something like that. I just like felt so much energy, and that's what it was. It just kept on building up and building up. And when I saw that the whole thing was innocent, it was actually an innocent play, and I even got to relate that to my stepdad, it was completely different. I stopped being burdened. So, see, to the ego giving up something like this, like I didn't give up the story. You see, I could still tell the story, right? It's just that I gave up that this had any effect on me at all. I made that story. I made the person who seems to be playing in the story. I'm responsible for it. This is not saying that a little kid shouldn't be helped if someone's molesting them. That is not saying that at all. It's saying that what I thought had happened did not really happen. Only love can occur, only extensions of light can really be true. So what was perceived between us, and he had a similar perception, you know, he apologized to me. He came up to apologize to me. He had a similar perception, but what we're doing when we're perceiving is our minds are blank. Whenever there's any kind of harm taking place or anything like that, our minds are actually blank. Nothing's going on, only the creations of light, only reality goes forward. And you know, even through all of the things I lived with this stepdad for, I don't know, maybe like 15 years, I don't know, 10 years, 10 years maybe. Um there's still love exchanged between us. We're always giving and receiving love even when we're not aware of it. So whatever's on the surface playing out, that's our psyches playing out. And you can go, well, what how would a little tiny kid have a psyche like that? We give ourselves the psyche to play out. This is our, you could say kuleana, this psyche that we're given is our kuleyana, right? And you know, another thing that's interesting since I started getting interested in um astrology, since I see how you could use it to see what your patterns are. It's not to tell the future like a lot of people want to use it, you know. Um, this but the new the new astrology that people are doing, they're not even trying to tell the future. They don't even fucking care about that. They're talking about patterns that are being uh brought up in in these things. Well, one of my patterns is is this uh complex called Pluto Complex. And what that means in that kind that particular pattern is it's intense. And that, and and you know, that's also even the even the I was talking about this last week, even the planets, even in everything, they're an effect of the mind. So they're symbols as clues, and that's what I see the planets as they're symbols as clues. So you can see, oh, okay, uh, okay, I gave it to myself like that. You know, I that's that's what that's how I gave it to myself to be a more of an of an intense thing. And what is being learned through having a more intense kind of uh kind of something, you know, young age, like really intense like that. And also just going through uh, you know, lots of intensity, it's intensity that other people don't seem to go through seems to occur over here, right? So there's a there's a purpose for it, and it's to it's to being in equanimity with intensity, and that's something that I've gotten very good at through the years of just uh of of just being willing to be with the intensity. It's really my intensity, and you know, I experience it as a kid riding around in cars with my brothers and sisters. We'd ride for hours and hours, and I didn't experience so much intensity. There's like all this arguing, and you know, of course, as I'm perceiving intensity, I'm trying to avoid intensity too, right? And getting, you know, just like really off the wall, like insane kind of scenarios, you know, like uh my first husband bones up with my sister and gets her pregnant, you know, like just like insane kind of while and and just seeing, you know, in that in that time there was there was a perception, like, you know, wow, basically I'm like trailer trash. I got a husband who fucks my sister, you know what I mean? So it's like seeing through these scenarios and recognizing the truth of who we are and not allowing the perception to demonstrate who we are to us. That's the trick. It's like uh that's a trick of the ego to show you, look, your body's broken, you must be. It's like it's like you can when you're bringing things to the truth, you're not hoping your your body gets gets any better. You're you're actually using this perception to bring about the outcome that's been promised, and that's that your body is light. You can see the truth that your body is light, your body is not something that can be injured, your body is not something that could be uh that could be sick. And if you if you open up to, okay, I bet you there's some defenses against the truth that can be seen through this. And when you when you see, like, oh, I see how the mind is making this, there's that defense coming up, there's that uh kind of scenario, like it would prove to me that I'm uh spiritual if I see a fixed body, if I see a whole body. Um really, you know, you prove it to yourself first, and then the body, like you're not even surprised when the body just instantly changes, you're not really like you've already healed to that point where you're not concerned about an apparent body being sick. That doesn't change the truth, that doesn't change that that's an impossible perception. That doesn't change that when you're perceiving a sick body, you are perceiving a defense against the truth. That's what you're doing, and it's coming from your own mind.

Mind Body Ego And Authentic Expression

SPEAKER_00 1:44:23

Think of you know, oh special relationships and gosh, we certainly we have a special relationship going on with our own bodies, definitely mind and our body, and like I'd say that's number one special relationship, the special relationship with your body is that because it's like you're not a body, you're in relationship with a body, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:44:50

And and then you when you relate to other people to other people, you're not relating to them through really through a body, you're relating them through with them through a mind. You're only using a body because in this illusory world, you cannot communicate without a body, but the body isn't doing any kind of communicating, it's all coming from the mind, so it's like yes, there's a relationship between the mind and the body that seems to be your body, right? And then there's a relationship between the you your mind and all of the other bodies that seem to be different bodies, but with them, you could actually relate with their mind, and that's really true communication. You're not relating with them as a body when it comes to your body, that's an illusion. So to relate with the body as an illusion is not to discard the body, it's not like that, it's not to harm the body, it's not to neglect it, right? Relating to it as an illusion is noticing you don't have to do anything about it. It's it's it's your let's say it's the Holy Spirit's vehicle for teaching and learning the mind for the mind, right? So when you're willing to use it, your body, I'm saying, use your body completely for that, handing it over to the Holy Spirit, not trying to use it to be sneaky, um strategic with people, right? Trying to get look at this is the how the ego does it. You can't even do you you can't even do these kinds of things, but I notice it. I notice it in my own mind. That's how I'm able to see it, right? When when uh when my husband was was making uh advances, like just trying to get back with me, there was a sense that that to be careful that he doesn't, you know, stop doing that because I would get less money, right? And that's not something that I think reflects on that on me. That doesn't reflect on me. That is worldly energy, that's a worldly thought. What I don't want to do is I don't want to internalize that thought. That's why I want to see it. So when I see it and I know it's not about me, it doesn't, this is a worldly thought, it's not reflective on me or anything, then I'm not following it anymore. And I'm not subtly trying to hold on to something in order to get something that's never gonna serve me, that's never gonna help me. My husband can tomorrow go, you know what, you're not getting any more money from me. I'm cutting you completely off. And I'm still the same. So I can be authentic with him and not try to string him along to try to get something, right? And that's why I don't get I don't get mad at my friends either when my friends show me that they're using a strategy with me because I know how innocent that is. You know, just because I could see it, and maybe if the friend is open to hearing about it, I can call it out with them. And it's not doesn't mean that I'm even asking them to change. I'm just noticing this play. And I and you know, for the most part, I notice them all the time. I notice them arise within myself, arise with what seems to be within what seems to be another person. And I just overlook, overlook, overlook, because I can. I can see what it is, and then once I see what it is, I can overlook. That's the forgiveness. You cannot overlook it when you don't see what it is, though. There's a lot of fear about seeing what it is, especially how you play strategies or have played strategies, up until you see where the ego is tempting you to play a strategy because somehow your survival, your reputation, or something that you've deemed valuable rides on whether you win at this strategy.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:23

Reminds me of something Kenneth Lopnick had said once, where he said, you know, the way that we programmed the ego is above all else, make sure you we don't remember that we have a mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:38

Above all else, make sure we don't remember that we have a mind.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:42

If we remembered we had a mind, it would be automatic. We would choose against the ego.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:49

We would choose against the ego. Oh, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:51

Yeah. So this is all these strategies are just the ego, just like making sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:58

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. The ego does not want you to know that you're a mind. Right. That's that's one of the first things that I learned from a course in miracles was I'm a mind. I'm not inside of this. I'm not inside of this body. This body is inside of me. Right? That's a big difference. If I'm if my mind is inside of this body, I'm totally threatened. And that's how people look at it. They look at everything as a strategy. Everything is win or lose. And you know, what oftentimes what people do is project that onto you. Like that's the reason you're doing there's reasons why you're doing anything, and it's because you want to win. What do you get out of this? Like as an individual? Like, what do you get out of sharing your uh posts on Facebook as an individual, for instance? Right. And one girl asked on Facebook, she said, what is it that wants to post on Facebook? What is it that wants to get the recognition and and stuff like that? And I said, The spirit wants to use you. You gotta, you know, it don't let that um ego's false humility take you all the way over to, oh, if I post, it just means I want attention. I said, the spirit wants to be seen and heard, and the spirit can't be seen or heard without you. You know, when when you post with recognizing that, that's that that's enough right there. So see how the ego will take the, you could say, the kind-hearted, the the kind of right-minded people down by going, you just want to post because you're vain. You just want to post because you just want attention. And you know, maybe some people that have said that in the comments to her. The comments can get kind of brutal, especially on Buddha at the gas pump group. That is the most brutal group I've ever seen. It's amazing. But someone probably commented to her, like, why do you need so much attention? Why do you need a post? Why do you need so much attention? Look, being 100% helpful 100% of the time is a given for you, for one. You can't fuck that up. You're always 100% helpful 100% of the time. If there's any aspect of self mixed in there that just wants attention, let that be undone as it arises. Let yourself still express. That doesn't mean stop expressing and wait till you're 100% fucking healed to be expressing. You know, people on the path need to witness other people on the path. All right. So it's not like your 100% healed self needs to be the one uh communicating right now. It's like the the one that you are, the one that you authentically are right now, manifesting through whatever patterns seem to be, is needed right now. And you don't need to question that. Only the ego would be questioning something like that. And you know what? Even if you do like the attention, even if you are enjoying the attention, guess what? That's okay. That's okay. Maybe you like attention, maybe that's fun for you. Well, if you're listening to the Holy Spirit, not only will you feel like you're truly helpful, you'll also have the attention that you like. There is nothing wrong with that. It's not like you have to be like polypurebred or something like that. I don't know. I just made that up, I think. Is being authentically yourself and notice where, of course, the ego is always popping up, wants to hold something. Right? Like I did this. It's like, you know, it's all being done through you. And the gentler you allow yourself to be held, right? You know, just allowing yourself to be held in the gentleness rather than condemnation. The ego is always looking for ways to shut you up when you're expressing what's true. Yeah, this is a this is really uh damaging from the ego's point of view. You know, it's not really damaging because the ego doesn't really exist, the ego is actually source. So the ego is afraid of going back to source and not existing. But what it what is really true for the ego is the ego was never the ego, the ego is just always source, pretending to be ego. So all it all it does as it as it dissolves, these ideas that are against creation are seen as meaningless, and that energy, you could say that consciousness, awareness, whatever, is is just back to the source. Right? It's just integrated with the source. It's not arising as this separate, fearful thing, it's back to being the source. So the ego itself doesn't even need to be afraid of this. We love the ego, we love that it doesn't exist. That's the best part. That's the best part of the ego. It doesn't exist. So when it pops up, it's kind of just like a comical little dude trying to convince yourself that you're not the son of God. So it's like we love it for that. We love it for that it's unreal, uh, it's unreality. And um since truth can withstand any form of error, and you're the truth, right? And we went over this on Wednesday. What does withstand mean? It doesn't mean fight it, it just means it just means it's untouchable. It's just the truth is untouchable by error. So, in demonstrating to yourself, no matter what's arising, you are the truth, and you cannot be touched by error. That's all. That's a choice. It has nothing to do with manifestation, but it affects manifestation, it allows the truth to actually act on manifestation, and that's where we start to see miracles occur. You know, first we just start to see the kind of miracles occur where, you know, this was something where I always reacted this way. I always reacted in hatred, I always reacted in condemnation, and now I don't anymore because I see things differently. And now I don't see those kinds of thoughts circulating in my mind, talking about how I was victimized by someone. See.

Events Links And Donations

SPEAKER_01 1:57:25

So hooray, everyone. I love you. Thank you. I'm gonna have one more wisdom dialogue next Sunday. That'll be Mother's Day, and then I'm also going to have ACIM deep dive on Wednesday, this Wednesday. But next Wednesday, I'm not gonna have ACIM deep dive. I'm flying early on Thursday morning, so I'll just reserve that for some nice, gentle, kind chill packing. Yeah, getting back to the island. So fun. So, yes, and then I'll be starting back up after I settle into the island. It might be a couple weeks. We'll see. You'll get notified if you're signed up for Zoom. Um, yeah, that's probably the easiest way. If you're on Substack too, you get notified whenever I go live. But I think the Zoom sign up is probably the best. And the easiest way to get there is just go to hopejohnson.org. It's right on the front page. All my links are there now. I've revised the website, and now it's easy to find all my links right on the front page. So just go over there. You can get signed up for Zoom there. You can get on my substack from there. You can find all the different podcasts that you want to your heart's desire, any kind of podcast station. I got two different podcasts over there, lots of free resources. So go to hokejohnson.org and also feel free to donate. This is done 100% off donations, and it's really helpful when you donate. You know, I just keep on rolling new stuff out. Recently, what I did is I went Facebook verified. So now I'm paying a monthly fee to Facebook to be verified. And what it's already done is gotten the messages that I shared to people who aren't already following me. So that's it's kind of like paying an ad fee where they feature you more in people's feeds who are also like-minded. It goes off of algorithms. So that's fun. That's something I just added. Um, that's the kind of thing that I like to do is get the message out to the people who are ready to receive the message and recognize that they actually are invulnerable. Some people can recognize this really quick. Sometimes they're just like right on the cusp of it. And they're like, oh, I see what you're saying. Okay, none of this stuff really affects me. Because I know that this is not, it's not as small as it seems, the way the mind is opening up to see it this way. Seems like there's only a few of us, but I know there's a lot more that are just ready. And even just seeing someone confirm what's true for them, it just really uplifts them and and puts uh puts them some more power, some more steam in their engine to keep on looking toward the truth until they're totally certain that it that's all there is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:32

In truth, certainty can be shared.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:36

That's one of the things that in truth, certainty. Yes, it's certainty gets shared because we're one mind, because our thoughts are not private. So when our thought is certainty, yes, it's kind of like that's contagious. Yeah. So hooray, everyone. I'll be back on Wednesday for ACIM deep dive. Yeah, thank you for joining. I love you, Mahalo. Yay, yay, I got people here today. Until next time, everyone. Mahalo, aloha, and uh hooy ho.