Peace is Proof | Wisdom Dialogues @ Lake Whatcom | May 10, 2026

You can spend years chasing “evidence” that you’re healed, loved, chosen, safe and still feel the same knot in your stomach. We take that knot seriously, but we stop taking the ego’s story seriously. From a Mother’s Day reflection on “mother energy,” we move into a practical spiritual teaching: self-condemnation is never private. The moment we judge ourselves, it leaks into our tone, our expectations, and the way we try to manage other people. The invitation is to let those condemning thoughts be meaningless and to practice real self-compassion that doesn’t depend on anyone else behaving correctly. 

A big theme is relationships and spiritual awakening, especially the hunger for proof. When someone asks, “Why isn’t my healing reflected back to me?” we point to a different kind of evidence: peace. Not peace as a vibe you wait for, but peace as a choice you demonstrate to your own mind while the old pattern tries to hook you through remorse, control, and scarcity. We bring in A Course in Miracles ideas like releasing fear, undoing guilt, and remembering there is no love but God’s, which reframes romantic longing as a deeper longing for wholeness. 

We also get refreshingly real about modern attachment points: beauty ideals, self-care, money dynamics, resentment, obligation, and trauma bonds that can feel like addiction in the body. None of it is about being “good” or “spiritual.” It’s about noticing the interpretation you’re making and choosing a gentler, freer way to see. If you’re ready for a relationship mindset built on forgiveness, non-attachment, and joy-guided living, press play and come hang with us. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs relief, and leave a review with the moment that challenged you most.

Transcript

Mother’s Day And Mother Energy

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Aloha and welcome to Wisdom Dialogues with Hope Johnson. Coming to you, yes. Apparently, this is a Mother's Day edition because apparently it's Mother's Day and I'm a mother. And Natalie's a mother. And it's our and it's our last wisdom dialogues at Lake Whatcom. Yay, for now. For we don't know how long. So yay. Ah happy Mother's Day, everyone. Shine, yes, it's a shiny, beautiful day, and we're stoked. Not just not just that we're mothers, but it's like this mother energy. Everything's okay. Everything's gonna be okay. And we all have that aspect with that within ourselves, right? We always we all have that aspect where it's just ready to be nurturing. You notice that how you are with other people, maybe like with kids, people that you care about, how your heart feels when you feel nurturing,

Self-Condemnation Leaks Into Every Bond

SPEAKER_01 1:31

right? And you can allow that to be for yourself as well. See, that's that's the biggest thing that people go through is condemning themselves and thinking that they're sparing others, right? But you can't be condemning yourself without it spilling out everywhere into all of your relationships. That's the thing, you can't be condemning even one single person without that spilling out, where you don't want it to spill out, right? Where you know, self-condemnation, it's all self-condemnation, whether it seems like it's toward another person or anything like that. And you know, that's why it really touched me when I read the Buddha quote that says, love the entire world as a mother would it would her only child, right? Her only child of love the entire world. And you know, that really starts with you because the self-condemnation is the part that the ego hides from you. See, it's like when self-condemnation arises, there's a trigger that you try to escape the self-condemnation somehow. Try to project it like that's just the way I am. That's also projecting it. See, all the thoughts are projecting. So if you go like, that's that's the way I am, I'm this way, I'm sharp, I'm uh I'm whatever. People make up these negative ideas about themselves and don't realize they're making it up. You know, you can change that. We can change whatever it is that we perceive that we do not like. Anything that strikes our heart, like like something that's sad, death, for instance, and everything else that goes on in relation to that, including the sickness, the accidents, the conflicts, all that kind of stuff. It need not be, and you need not see it. That's the thing. It's a matter of seeing differently, right? You not you need not see any kind of conflict, any kind of struggle. It really is a matter of seeing it differently. You're seeing it as it is, which is non-existent because it can't exist, because the thought underneath it is false. The thought of separation

Seeing Conflict As Not Real

SPEAKER_01 4:05

upon which that whole perception of war, struggle, anything is predicated, that thought is a false idea. It's a crazy, insane idea. So it's willingness to see its manifestations as actually being non-existent, as in having no effects in reality. The world will try to convince you that something is wrong, like you have to worry over something or fret or fear over something. And it's very common for thoughts to just escape your knowledge, escape your awareness. They just they'll just come up and automatically believe, be believed. And that's why it's so important to tune in to how you're feeling. How you're feeling is a manifestation of how you're being held in your psyche, in your own psyche. So it's not anyone, it's not God doing it to you or anything like that. It's just how you're holding it in your own psyche. So, you know, in your life experiences where things don't seem to go the way you would like them to go. Like let's say you have relationships and they don't seem to go the way they want you want them. People don't seem to be meeting you at the level that you are, and things don't seem to be working out because of that. You don't seem to be vibing because of that. And you know, the sense that that people get around that is that they're being punished. It's a sense of being punished, and so the self-accusations come around because of that, saying, like what you're doing wrong to manifest this particular thing that you don't like. But really, the only reason for any manifestation at all is awakening because once your mind is fully purified of fear of guilty consciousness, right, then there's no need for this perception. There's just direct awareness of reality. Perception is taking reality and overlaying it with concepts and then perceiving it. So, in recognizing what it is, like if there's any kind of conflict or anything, you're perceiving it because it's coming from your psyche, you could say, for healing. And what is that healing? It's a it's a different way of looking at it. See, it's looking at it for it's like a call for love, aka, a call for truth. Truth needs to be brought to the situation. Yay, I came on Substack. Yeah, all right. So the nurturing, motherly aspect of yourself is always present with open arms. It's just a matter of would you be willing to let that thought be meaningless? Let that thought about yourself be meaningless. You know, even just a simple, you know, maybe I should have called that person. It's like that's crazy thought. That's a crazy ass thought. But it seems so normal.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

It's even in your own voice.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Right, it's even in your own voice. Yes, all of them are in your own voice. Yeah, usually. I mean, I think for for most people, it's in their own voice because that's the voice that's uh that you identify as your voice. You know, you made it, you hear it all the time when you speak, the same voice in the thoughts. It seems like it's you, but you can deny meaning to anything that says that you're separate. So why does a a thought that I should have called that person symbolize separation? Why, why is that? And you know, it's because there's a belief that for one, there's a past, for two, you could have done anything wrong. See, the ego just distracts you with stuff like this, so you end up thinking all the time about a meaningless life. See it's like it's so different when the thoughts arise and you're aware that they're only arising so that you can expand your awareness, so to speak. Wake up from dreaming is the only reason you know, that's if that's the reason you give them, they really take on whatever reason you give them, whatever meaning you give them. So if they're arising in your view for purification, then that's how you use them. Right? You you might you might look at them and go, Oh, I I see that one repeating a lot. I noticed that one repeating a lot. That doesn't feel good, you know. The ego gets a good hook on us through remorse. So the longer we go through a lifetime, the more those kinds of thoughts come up. I saw one on Facebook. I someone was saying how they they told they told the person, what if you're this sign, I think it was Taurus or something, if you're this sign, I'm not gonna date you, right? So then another person comes on and she's you know, she's probably in her 60s or something, and she goes, I remember one time I was fresh out of a relationship with another sign, whatever that sign was. And this guy walked up to me and he was like trying to get to know me. And I go, wait a minute, what sign are you? And he said, This sign, whatever the trigger sign for her was, and she's like, I still wonder what it would have been like if only I would have given him a chance. And that's the ego.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

You see how it's sentimental, it's like, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

You know, if only I would have. Yeah, and so then I commented, I said, I I said, I bet he's still wishing he wasn't a fucking Virgo.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Whatever sign he was.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

If he's over there wishing he wasn't a Virgo, and she's over there wishing she would have given him a chance, you know? It's like the ego gets us with things like that. And the longer the history, the more the the more there is, there's the more there is to chew on about how missed opportunities, failures, right? Parts where you seem to have not stood up for yourself, different times where you know they're replayed. I talked to one one man who's in his 60s and was still replaying junior high stuff, right? So, you know, you can you can roll them around for as long, and then other people trade the junior high stuff for more recent stuff. It's just whatever will keep your mind occupied, that's what's good for the ego as far as its job, which is maintaining a separate self, right? It's not really good for the ego, the ego thinks it's good for the ego. See, what's really good for the ego is dissolving the ego, actually. Because the ego isn't really separate. The ego isn't really it's playing in this, uh, in this, you could say, dimension as something, but it's not really separate. Just like we're playing in this dimension, just like we're separate, nothing is actually separate from source, right? The the technology that we're using also, it's not separate from source. None of this is separate, it's all coming from our psyche. That's why we have command over it. The reason is because it is coming from us, and the command comes in with being at peace with it, and to be at peace with it is really simply to recognize everything as helpful, and in that gratitude, recognizing everything is helpful, even everything that you seem to be doing, and extending gratitude is healing. It's easy, it really is easy.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

We have the easiest job ever. Can you ask

Wanting Proof From A Relationship

SPEAKER_04 13:30

me to? Uh the egos need to see evidence of you.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

The egos need to see evidence. Can you elaborate on where this question is coming from?

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Like with like with Aaron. Okay. Like, oh we had such a good thing, and now you know it feels like a loss. It feels like a loss, like right. I'm like, I feel like I'm doing so much healing within myself, but I'm not getting the evidence, like, it's still not reflecting.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

He's not reflecting back to you, yes. Right, yeah, yeah. So Natalie's asking, first of all, a little bit of background. She's had a boyfriend for how long? Two and a half years, two and a half years, boyfriend, living with her, and then he moved out. What I noticed, what I noticed was a strong sense of victimized, victimized, feeling victimized, right? That's what I noticed. A strong sense, like a a story about being underpaid and just, you know, kind of like kicked to the side and a feeling of victimize. And Natalie's going, like, why, if I've done all this healing within myself, why is this the reflection? Why am I not getting the proof that the heal that the healing is the healing has happened by him dropping the victim consciousness, basically? Dropping scarcity, dropping this ego way of relating, right? Why isn't it reflecting back to me? Where's the proof? Where's the evidence that this is the case? Well, really, the evidence is your peacefulness, and that's something you choose. So you can see how that question, like, why isn't being proved to me here in the story, right? Why you could see how that question is actually blocking you from the proof that you can have right now, right? So the proof isn't in stories, it's in how you be with it. Like you're demonstrating it to yourself, you're proving it to yourself, right? I tell you guys stories like the one with my son where he's attacking the vacuum and then throwing shit and then coming up on me. That's where the proof came out, not by what my son is doing. I don't mind what he's doing, whatever he's doing. It's how I'm viewing it. That's where the proof is. See that? So you prove it. That's what the that's what a Course in Miracles is talking about when it's demonstrate to your mind that the truth is true, that the illusion doesn't matter. You could laugh at all of the illusions. However, anyone wants to dance in your field, you're just playful and light with them, right? You're allowing them to come and play. And you know, they're showing patterns. Oh, oh wow, I see how I I bought into that dynamic right there. Oh, okay. And then you and then you navigate these dynamics with the Holy Spirit's guidance, right? But these bodies are not for keeping. And one thing that Billy and I have been going over with the Course in Miracles lately is how uh how there's no love but God's. So any love in the world is not meant to last. It's not the kind of love that lasts, okay? We don't have that kind of love here in the world because in the world is a picture of these blockages, right? It's a picture of these blockages. That's what these bodies are. They're kind of like a picture of a blockage. It's a it's a block it, it's a blockage to love. So there's no love but God's means we can actually see and recognize the love of God in everything without making anything special. So the only way to know the love of God is to love all the sons of God equally, all sons of God equally. See that? So, however, anyone is being in this particular manifestation, you're just allowing it. Because no one is like the manifestation, they're not really like the manifestation. That's like a that's like a play. And and look at this. Once you are feeling released from the fear, once your mind is released from the fear, things change. Like in this case, her dude moved out. He left a sweet note and moved out, and then he came back and got all dramatic, and she wasn't that dramatic about it. Right. So when the purpose for the relationship changes, see, when when your purpose for the relationship is more illusion, then you know, whatever changes take place, anything, it's just leading to more illusion, right? But if your purpose for the relationship is releasing fear, relationships can change. Like they can change forms, they can fall away, they can just be like more honest. Like this is what I uh this is what I enjoy, this is how I like to do it. And people are not sacrificing that feeling, that sacrificial thing that people get into in relationships. Well, I guess I gotta sacrifice this. Maybe they'll give me something over here if I do that, right? So, seeing that it's all taken care of, the manifestation, how the relationship goes, whether it continues in the form that it is or it falls away, don't worry about that. You don't have to, you don't have to take any kind of concern about it. It's a matter of just seeing that the truth is true in the midst of all of these things. So here's how you you get the proof that you're looking for, Natalie. You you when you're in a conversation with him or you're just thinking about him, now you're probably just going to be thinking about him. You're probably not gonna have conversations with him. Thoughts of him are gonna cross your mind about how he's not, you know, doing the thing that would really reflect to you what proof is. And that's where you actually get your proof by recognizing this being a pattern. And you can let yourself feel the proof because it's it, you know, it when the Holy Spirit speaks to you and you let yourself feel, you know, the Holy Spirit's actually always speaking to you. So let's say when you're listening to the Holy Spirit and you feel the resonance of what's being shared with you, that's proof. That and that's the only way it comes. It doesn't come in the world because everything in the world falls away, right? That's your evidence. Now, you being the evidence and allowing you to be proof to yourself, that starts to change the manifestation, right? I'm not saying, because I don't know, I'm not saying your perfect fucking beau is gonna come along and he's the best one, and he's like totally seeing you, totally being that one who strokes your hair and takes you dancing and makes sweet love to you, right? And also earns a nice income. No, that's the ego's way with the earning part, right? It's like it's like it really, it all is because it's manifestation.

Longing For God Behind Romance

SPEAKER_01 21:40

So look at it this way there's naturally going to be a longing, and for different people, it's different. You know, for some of us, we're more wired, like for myself. I have this relationship idealist voice that just really seems to be longing for this perfect one, this perfect. Perfect relationship. And I know that's so common. And what I do with that is that's what I use that as the to as the proof that you're we're talking about, demonstrating to my own mind what's actually true. Because reason will tell you that the longing is not for something in the world, really. It's not for that relationship, right? There's nothing in this world that can bring us anything that we want. That longing is really longing for God. That's what it is. That's all it ever is. So when when I recognize what that thought is, I don't feed and project the longing. I use it to heal the longing, healing the longing for the world. We're not, our minds are not separate. Right? So you're allowing yourself to be healed, and basically this demonstrating to yourself that the truth is true. You're that's really what you're doing. You're using reason, true reason, like divine reason, right? That longing itself could only be a longing for God because there's no love but God's, and there's nothing in this world that could satisfy us. So believing a thought that saying you're longing for this particular kind of partnership is insane. It's insane in the moment. And you know, you could play with it if you want. I like to play with energy and see how it feels, right? Play with it in the moment. Believe for a moment that that is out there. All right. And believe for a moment that that that is out. Look at the possibility that you're not gonna get it.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

And look at the evidence that you've probably, you know, if you've gone through more years, look at the evidence of the world that's showing you that's not even here, right? That's what you're thinking about, your ideal, whatever, that's not here.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

And at the same time, at the same time, you already have it. What you're longing for is within you. It is true that it is within you. So if you're allowing yourself to to receive that, to receive that knowledge and to feel what the effects, see what the effects of knowing, the first effect of any kind of anything that comes from the mind is feeling. So the effect of knowing is like you could say ecstasy or bliss. That's the effect of it. And you do know, that's why you can demonstrate it to yourself anytime. And it's not like that longing has gone away, it's just that when it comes back, it's another opportunity, and it's like I'm in no hurry. Right? I'm only I'm only in a hurry to know the truth. That's it. But not I'm not in a hurry to unwind patterns. That's not up to me. It's not up to me to really undo the patterns. Uh it's up to me to recognize what's true, and then that's how patterns are undone.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

This process of really pushing all the judgment and only listening to the voice spirit. It's not it more than likely will take time. Yes, take all this time, right? Not because it needs to, not because it needs to.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

That's right. It's just, I guess, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, there's resistance, and then also it's like your life, your body is being used by the Holy Spirit as a means for make awakening the mind in this dream, right? So as you're releasing, if it's a slow release, right? If it's a you're slowly releasing your patterns, you're also touching the lives of people you don't even know. Right? The ripple effect is huge. See? So it's like wherever you find yourself, it's like don't be in a hurry to undo it. Just be in a hurry to know the truth right now. And part of knowing big part of knowing the truth right now is gentleness with yourself. Not like, why don't I just wake up so fast faster? Why am I so stubborn? Why am I so whatever? That's still the ego's voice. Just accept that you are right. Can you do that? Can you just accept? I'm fucking why am I why am I still manifesting here? I'm stubborn. What's happening here?

SPEAKER_02 27:37

The stubbornness is being undone. How nice.

unknown 27:44

Right?

SPEAKER_01 27:45

It's like it's it's like you stop trying to present as an image that's somehow advanced, right? It's just like being as you are. Okay, it's like it's like things come things come up, things come out, you go, oh, oh, yeah, I see that. I see I was using that to hurt myself. And then you then you don't do that anymore. Or maybe you keep on doing

Beauty Ideals Without Ego Guilt

SPEAKER_01 28:10

it for a little while. The thing is, don't kick yourself about it, right? It's not about what you're doing, it's about how you're seeing. It's not about what you're even interested in in the world, it's about how you are seeing. So, you know, a lot of these, I guess, beauty ideals that we have that we've been programmed with, right? These beauty ideals, we as a as a culture, as a society, you might say, are going in and getting some weird stuff done to ourselves, like lip fillers and and needles and all kinds of different stuff. IVs now, you could just like roll in and get IVs and the different stuff. And it's not the desire to be beautiful, you know. It's like I've always had that with myself, you know, like I always am looking at like what's the nice skincare stuff to use? Like, what can I, you know, what can I do to to self-care beautify stuff like that? And you know, there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's where the ego comes in and makes it into something that demonstrates worth. And these thoughts will pop up, like if things aren't a certain way, then that then I'm less worthy. That's what you want to be looking at. You don't want to be avoiding things in the world because you think they're less spiritual. You want to look at how you attach to the particular thing. So that's come up for me recently because I was researching and I was talking with AI about hey, is there some kind of technology to like tighten up and get some like more muscle tone and less flabby, wrinkly shit, right? Basically. That's what I asked it. And it's like, and and it's like, oh yeah, and non-invasive and non-all this stuff, right? And it comes up with three different things and they all look awesome. Great technology. You know, I'm looking at this stuff and I'm like going, okay, well, how much does this shit cost? It costs thousands of dollars, right? To do. So I happen to be going to Sri Lanka. So I'm like, how much is this shit cost in three Sri Lanka? $25. I'm like, what the fuck? Okay. So I'm like, wow, I'm gonna be getting some of that shit when I'm over in Sri Lanka, right? So I'm sharing that with Tony, my husband. He's still my husband. God, he's such such a sweetheart. No, it's not Iurvet. One of them's ultrasound, and one of them's like microneedling and radio frequency, something like that. And then there's another one, all just like non-invasive kind of stuff that, you know, according to AI, anyways, it's like, yeah, you need one treatment of those things and a lot of shit. Okay, cool. So I was talking with Tony about that, and he he's like, he's like, You are so cute. It's like, he's like, he's like, there's not really anything you want in the world. And I go, I know. And I always watch these kinds of mind movements of mine that go into stuff like this. Like, I watch what the movement is. Like, where is it where is the movement? Anything that feels heavy, anything that feels like it's gonna make me more worthy, especially more worthy as, and you know, this is just a thought that occurs to people all the time. I'll be able to hook the right partner. You know, and so no one is really capable of thinking stupid ass thoughts like these. These are the ego's thoughts. So they're not personal at all. These are world thoughts arising, right? And and so it's like, I don't even have to ask myself, like, why would you want to go over there and get and or when you're over there, because I was going over there anyways, when you're over there, get those things. If you weren't doing it to hook a person, it's like fuck obvious to me. I like beauty. You know, it's like it's that's just that's just natural for us. Like we uh we we love we love beauty, that's natural. It's it's not like it needs to be made into something that's evil, which is what the ego likes to do. The ego likes to make up things that you're interested in or things that you might enjoy in the world as something evil. It's very common. It it's it's with alcohol, right? Drugs, that's another thing. It the the ego will make those things evil, right? That's why I've always shared on wisdom dialogues. I'm like, yeah, I smoke spliffs. Like, usually I am smoking spliffs, like sometimes I'm not, depending on circumstances where it's not like easeful or or or I guess uh easily accessible. Like when I'm in Sri Lanka, I think it's totally illegal, like they'll put you in jail for a long time or some shit. So I won't be like, yeah, but opium instead. Yeah, yeah. I'll just microdose opium while I'm there. No, I don't know. Uh no, it's it's just it's not what you do, it's the way you're seeing it always. That's all it's that's the interpretation that's being made, and that's where you can demonstrate to your mind that the truth is true. None of this stuff that seems to be happening in the world is affecting who you are, and you can stay in the truth by staying in peace, by wanting the peace of God over an interpretation that condemns you.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Well, it's funny about the ego, too. How it's so changeable and it's never enough. So you you know, saying something like, Well, I just love beauty, but it's like, well, then why not just open a magazine where it's like beautiful models that are airbrushed to look, you know, perfect. Why don't you just look over there? Yeah, you know, it's like, no, it has to be the way that I want it. The beauty has to come from me looking in the mirror, you know. Like it's it's so nonsensical how these these attachments are, you know, because it's it's changeable and it's never good enough.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Yeah, it's well that that's true. That's true to the ego. The ego could come in and it's never good enough, saying it's never good enough, too. And at the same time, you're allowed to play with anything, you know, it's the ego that would make it like because it's because the beautifying is aimed at your own body, there's something wrong with it, right? Because it's the beautifying isn't aimed at making a garden and it's aimed at make it your own body, there's something wrong with that, right? And and it's and it's just the ego coming in in different ways. There's nothing wrong with anything. You just start with that. Start with there's nothing wrong with anything, it's the way you're seeing it, and that goes from moment to moment to moment. So one moment you'll be like, you might be like, Yeah, I mean, I've seen that on myself, like one one angle, it's like, oh fuck, fuck yeah, that's really good. And then another angle, it's like, oh shit, I'm over. Right? So so you're just recognizing the game in that and laughing. You don't have to identify with any of that, right? You're just you're recognizing the game in it, and in that, whatever you seem to be doing, it even if it even if the beautifying is aimed toward your, and you know, I recommend it, like it's it's fun, you know, aimed toward beautifying your own body, you know, putting certain oils on it and different stuff, peptides in the hair. Look at the shiny hair, isn't that fun? I mean, it's just it's it's for play. So the so the ego wants you justifying yourself, defending yourself, saying, you know, this is why it's justified, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But just start with everything's innocent. Start with that. Just that that's that's it. Everything, whatever it is that you seem to do is innocent. And, you know, this idea

The Sacrifice Mindset Shows In The Body

SPEAKER_01 37:05

that we shouldn't be taking care of ourselves, you know, that's look around. Look at the effects of that shit. Right? It's like sacrificing. I was talking with my son about it yesterday. It was we were talking about how he's in corporate, and it's kind of like sacrificing your vitality, your health for money, right? That's a there's always some kind of sacrifice going on in the ego's world. And really, you know, the time right now is the time to be nourished and fulfilled and not in sacrifice mode mentally. It doesn't matter if you're actually doing a corporate drop, corporate job, but just it's a thinking in this kind of way, like you're giving something up for something else, right? So when you're when you're looking at it like it's now, it's now, it's now. What I noticed for myself is I found myself sitting at my desk differently. I was sharing with you guys on Wisdom Dialogues maybe a couple years ago. I found myself sitting at my desk differently. It was like I was sitting with a posture that was that was powerful all of a sudden. It's like, and not for not having to force it at all. I just like noticed that. And it was from noticing that I can't get anything in the future by sacrificing something now. So I just became more and more aware of how I felt in my body's energy field as I'm sitting at the desk. So then I'm not in a collapsed position anymore. I used to be naturally just go into a collapsed position because underneath the work pattern that I'm doing, there's a pattern that's saying I have to sacrifice. And in that pattern, going unrecognized, what was happening is my ribs were caving into my organs and actually like poking my organs because of the way my posture was, my ribs were just coming forward like that, and I was collapsing in the solar plexus. So, whatever we're thinking is affecting our posture. First, it's a it affects feeling, breath pattern, even what we seem to do. So then so then this awareness came, and and then and and then more unwinding came where I start doing a lot of block therapy where I'm I find myself in an unwinding mode all the time. But that came from first recognizing I cannot gain from sacrifice, and you guys, this is really common, like all day long, it plays in a subtle way and is believed automatically because that's the world's kind of knowledge, that's worldly knowledge that you should be sacrificing, but nothing comes, nothing good ever comes from that, right? We do it in relationships too, and when we feel like someone needs something from us, right? I've I've found myself making excuses for people in relationships where it's like, hey, you know, they're not really like honoring and respecting you in the way they treat you, but then you're making ex I'm making an excuse like well, they need something.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

They need actually, here's the thing when someone cannot honor and respect you when you're around them, they're gonna learn a lot better in your absence. That's how that works, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:10

It's not like you're you're gonna be can you're gonna be convincing them now. The way I did that in my household with people, I it's like I was living with them, so I wasn't like leaving the situation, right? But I was leaving all of those kinds of arguments, all of those kinds of arguments about my worth, right? I would I would get reflections like somehow my my worth is diminished, like I'm somehow like not good enough for something like that from people in my family, right? And it would feel like I want to leave, right? So I'm just I would just be absent from that conversation, but present in another way where I'm listening with my whole energy field, and I can feel what's being presented to me, and I'm demonstrating again. Here's the proof again that you want. I'm demonstrating again to my own mind that only the truth is true, while someone close to me is trying to convince me that I'm not living up to expectations, let's say, right? So that's where the demonstration takes place, and that's where like you're leaving that dynamic. You stop relating with people in that way. And and you know, my son, in all his wisdom, my son Blaze, when he was probably about 14 or something,

Being A Good Mom Without Defending

SPEAKER_01 42:45

told me one time, and it was almost like it was the voice, it was it was a voice for the Holy Spirit coming through, and he didn't even know what he was saying, right? Told me one time, Mom, I just want you to know that you're a good mom, and just know that, right? Because, like, if you doubt that, I'm gonna come in and fuck you up, right? It is true, that'll totally screw you up, right? Someone's going, you're a bad mom, and you are and you believe that that actually reflects on you, right? It's gonna mess you up. So that's a lot of what I wrote about in my book, too, unschooling for parents, just watching where these opportunities, opportunities are to say that I'm there's that's my mind saying that I'm less than when I hear something like that and I react to it. If I don't react to it, that's then I'm not believing it already. Uh it's just uh it's just forgiven, right? But if I'm reacting to it, that's where a demonstration needs to be made to my own mind. that only the truth is true. So this scenario cannot really be true. You just don't hold to it like at like as if something actually happened. No matter what you no no matter what misperception you have about the past. It's miss all misperception.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

Can you speak to sort of that dynamic of like where he was sensing you know this world is made up of if you defend yourself you'll be attacked. You'll defend yourself you'll be attacked uh-huh ultimately we all know the truth but we also are identified as egos with like just that that weird feeling where you really want another person to remember the truth so you don't have to play that role in their story. I don't know like sort of like like a pre-cognition of like oh man like my mom doesn't remember like she's a good mom I'm gonna like have to come in and play this role of like the son is attacking her. And I don't really want to do that but and there's like the veil is like lifted for a moment it's like oh my gosh there's like a moment of clarity before realizing that the veil is gonna go back quickly or something.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

I'm not following what you're talking about. The veil is lifting momentarily you mean like when the sun sees yeah he had a moment of clarity or something yeah I don't know if he even knew what he was saying this just came through and I was like I know that's true yeah because it's all coming from me right so in the earlier days I would be reacting to that oh my gosh my son doesn't think I'm a good mom oh my gosh what am I what do I do what do I do you know and then through spiritual awakening I started to see oh this is a pattern I see what's happening you know I I get the feeling like I can't control him and he gets the feeling that I should be controlling him better I should be doing a better job as at it so yeah the it's like the veil lifted for a moment and told me what was actually needed it was needed for me to just know that I'm perfect as I am and then that would give him comfort see as a child as anyone as any child in the world me knowing that I'm perfect as I am comforts everyone that is the providing the comfort right you cannot believe in yourself being broken you know wanting scarcity right without that leaking again into everyone and all of the relationships so it was really a matter for all of my relationships to shift and they have they've all shifted it's like they either fall away if they're not like on the level you know if it's if there's manipulation involved trying to play out some kind of fantasy about about the the fucking image the self-image those kinds of relationships they just fall away even if they are with children those relationships with the children will just fall away but people get so attached to their relationship with your child that's really not what it's for that relationship with your child they're just for loving you just love them and that's what I notice with my kids you know I just keep on loving my kids I let them think whatever they want about me if they want to not talk to me or uh or anything like that. I just keep on loving them up. And you know on the surface of things my relationship with my kids all three of them feels very harmonious. Right and and it's like that's how I would see it no matter what the manifestation is because it's just what it is the the the the way I see all of these relationships they're all harmonious to me. Right it being able to see the the patterns that people are playing like for instance when I talk with my son and I haven't seen this in a little while several months actually where I'm talking with him and there's like a manipulative energy to try to get me again to see myself in a negative light in some way. And you know just noticing that's what it is I don't have to buy into it I don't have to condemn it. I don't even have to confront anything about it. I just don't buy into it and then and then he sees it for himself he's just kind of like well I really like to have a relationship with my mom it was fun it was fun when he when he wasn't talking to me for a couple months and my son was was acting like he was angry with me his his dad said he you know you might as well just talk to your mom because this is not affecting her she does not mind that you're not talking to her she's she's happy for your freedom you know like if you want that if if if you want that you might as well just like drop all the things that you're holding against having a sweet relationship with your mom and you know that just that goes for all of us and that's then that's anyone really you know but today's Mother's Day and a Kia's on here aloa akea thank you for coming yeah she called and said happy mother's day and I said are you gonna come on for Mother's Day here she is yay well let me know if you want to come on and talk just raise your hand if you want to do that no pressure well okay so yeah in that scenario yeah there's there's always there's sort of this weird tricky thing that always trips me off so then if some part of that dynamic though was you calling for him to be that way too right like okay calling for him to be what way now where are we not talking to you so because it was in your perception yeah there was something oh yeah oh yeah totally always yeah because because it everything is arranged for undoing patterns that's what it's being arranged for right so whatever whatever arises whether it's communicating or not communicating or anything like that you know for a while Tony wasn't talking to me my husband Tony giving him some space to kind of like get over me right and now he's talking to me again and when he when he uh communicated to me and told me he wasn't talking to me I go I go I'm really happy for that you know I felt really like of course from my perspective I really like calling him I really like like I'd get excited about something and I'd want to share it with him or something like that and just be like hey this and then and then oh yeah he's not talking to me you know so there's there's not excited in that way but excited for him that he's taking that and also excited for myself too that I'm I'm going you know into this different phase where I don't have that just automatic person right to be to be calling so yeah it's it's just not right or wrong it's just really not right or wrong. It's just these these relationships need to shift and change according to the purpose given to them. They're always doing that and we're always seeing these different layers and purposes we gave right and and and and pulling back from that. So that's why you know over the years I always said hold your relationships with an open hand so they can dance through in whatever way they do because

Money Power And Relationship Hierarchies

SPEAKER_01 52:50

when we grip to them especially survival kinds of things you know when we grip to them like we think we need them to like help us survive in the world then we're gripping to to that relationship and just instead of just letting it play through. And that's one thing that helped me so much is just recognizing that I'm sustained by the love of God. So I don't need anyone for anything. I'm not so then I don't need to play into any kind of dynamics that are normally unseen. And you know it's like we're all innocent and these these malevolent dynamics arise when and when they're not seen they're actually feeding these really crazy patterns that everyone says they don't want like you know the the big ones like child trafficking and murders and all that kind of stuff you know it's like like there's no there's no little fearful thought that doesn't feed in to everything else. So and the way we're playing this out so much is in our relationships. So when we set everyone free and set ourselves free from these bindings these trappings that say that we need to secure particular bodies and possess possess them yeah need to secure and possess particular bodies right so so speaking of that I was talking thank you zoom user thank you zoom user I love you too I don't know someone dropped in yeah so I was talking with a friend who okay here's the scenario all right his wife is super rich compared to him right so now there's a sense that there is demands being made on him oh aloha Kora thank you there so now there's a sense there's demands being made on him or else she's fucking done with him and if she's done with him he loses a whole bunch of shit apparently right he loses this bitchin' boat a nice house another half of a house and all this all this kind of stuff right it's like it's like fuck all this all this energy comes into play about what goes along with it so you know I told him you know because he's she's giving him ultimatums she's telling him if you disappoint me one more time you're fucking done and you're done means you don't get this shit anymore right so you're you're fucking over and I go well here here if someone is some just hypothetically speaking if someone gave me that ultimatum I'd say you know what here's my ultimatum you marry me with no prenup. That's how we're gonna stay together Faka since that's the way it is because see here's the thing and it's not a matter of of what forms being right or wrong there is energy play here where someone's got a hierarchy right and it's like hey how about how about this I got an ultimatum I'm not playing hierarchies with fuckers. So if that's gonna be the way it is you're marrying me and I have 50% and then there's the commitment for you right it's like it's it's funny like that it's like the ego would rather be ahead or behind than be equal with you. And that's something that I that I see is like the marriage one that is one way to symbolize this equality too it's like okay we're equal where we share everything where we share everything. See this also way of relating it's like it's kind of like ooh to me like ooh like where it's like you know I loan you money right or you loan me money and stuff like that. It's like it's like man just be sharing you know just be sharing that it's like it's like and let let things manifest as they do and recognizing too if someone tells you that they're disappointed their disappointment is not from you disappointing them that's not how it is their disappointment is coming from a pattern of disappointment and your playing into the pattern without recognizing that this is going on isn't a like a wound where you feel like you are a disappointment already. So you're getting that so that's that's why it gives you such a good opportunity to demonstrate to your own mind right that this is coming from you and you have command over it. Right? So it's like it's like if you're if you're reacting to someone being disappointed I mean just look at the body's energy field. It's great I know I I get excited when someone seems to be disappointed in me especially when they seem to hold purse strings you know you know then it's like oh yeah I feel that you know and noticing how I don't that's actually a disgusting dynamic to me. It's actually disgusting to me. So and I want that kind of disgust right I want that kind so I I'm not gonna accidentally play into that fucker right because I can see that I'm like ooh no I'm not doing that right there's no need to basically you could say sacrifice dignity right that's that's who you are that's the truth of who you are you don't have to sacrifice even in even in community like let's say you know you're in community with people and you know it's not like you're uh you're closed off like you don't want to talk about anything or anything like that it's just that you don't believe in those illusions so you can see solutions with people it's amazing you can actually see solutions together the things that work right but when you're wrapped up in believing that you're this separate thing and you can't see you can't have a solution together because you're focused on the conflict I just got a flashback to 2012 when I was in lower pune at a community it was at a community and one of the elderly men in the community came and he's like she's so mean to me talking about his wife she's so mean to me she wants me to stop smoking pot but she's so mean to me I'll all I want to do is smoke pot all day again the mother energy you know a lot of people sense that with the with the ganja too it's like this I need nurturing right I don't need bitching it's like I need nurturing I need it you know and and that's not how that's not how everyone is some people perceive nurturing as a threat right some people actually perceive what are you trying to do trap me but it's the self-nurturing and that's why it makes it easy for me like I can live in community I can live with people easefully because I I I see through the patterns I see through any sense like like a disappointment like me and Billy uh we we realized or I realize I don't know maybe he did too early on we kind of have the same same kind of patterns in some way where we're used to kind of like being annoying to other people where we live and we're like leaving stuff out and and and they're annoyed and Billy was telling me I felt like this and I go Billy I feel the same way and I'm telling you this is for that this is the opportunity like just having the feeling arise and recognizing this is a habit I'm not really doing anything to do anything to another person even if they were to reflect that way to me right but we can see like any any kind of thing that we want to do it just happens so easily there's it's just simple we don't even give our we don't

Fairness Traps And The Lazy Story

SPEAKER_01 1:02:05

even have to give each other like certain roles or anything like that. They just unfold right it's not a matter of fairness that's really important to not have things be a matter of fairness because one of the ego trips is unfairness right like I did this and therefore they should do this. If I do this you do this right just in letting people be natural and naturally do the things that they do and ensuring people too the one thing that I that I do that's like part of my ministry is to ensure people that they cannot possibly be lazy you know that's the ego identifying as a doer now look at notice this this movement to take stock of what you did of what you did today. What did you do that was productive today right when I was a kid when I was a kid and I'd visit the homes like community homes if they found that you were not productive with your free time you could get lined up with other kids and spanked I don't know why they like to put them in a line and spank them I don't know creative right so I definitely had that conditioning but don't have it just I just don't have that conditioning anymore that lazy that basically lazy conditioning. I don't need to take stock of my day to see you know like what did I do to earn a place on this fucking planet today right I mean if there was a a taking stock of the day right it would be you know and a Course in miracles has talked about this in some of the lessons it would be a matter of where did I extend love today? Where did I where did I take where did I accept the opportunities being presented to me and extend love where the habit might have been to do something else. You know that's the kind of way to really look at your day because the days are unfolding for this and if we're wasting them thinking in terms of us being a doer and what we did to be productive today, right? Then we're wasting our energy wasting our time right we you can't really waste time because it's just going to keep on coming but what I'm saying is if you're not allowing yourself to know the truth right now you're setting up more time to live out more illusions which you'd rather be released from them right now and see the real world and you know it's interesting what I see about the real world too it's really a shift in the perception like what would you make of this if you're not making the world into a threat and you're willing to see that anything that manifests from the thought of separation actually doesn't exist right then the world is that's then you're seeing the real world right it's like it's a shift in the perception. So you know uh the well at least the way of Course in Miracles talks about it you know when you see the real world when everything lights up like even in your perception it all lights up. So if it doesn't do that yet that's not a bad sign About you, all it is saying is that there's some removing of blocks to do. We're removing the blocks to love. When we fully remove the blocks to love, we see everything in light. But we're the ones who are the bringers of that light. And what does that mean to be the bringer of the light? That's that holy instant where you demonstrate to yourself that the truth is true in the midst of illusion. And yes, even the ego will see the proof and know the proof because the proof is the peace, the peace of God. See, that is the that is the proof. Within patterned scenarios. It's like you you have a there's a break in the pattern. It's almost like there's a glitch, you make glitches in the matrix by being the bringer. You're the bringer of the light that you ultimately only see. You see everything in the light. So while you're not seeing, basically perceiving is not seeing, you're it's like you're seeing in darkness or seeing through veils or a dirty window, something like that. While you're perceiving, you're just using your perception to demonstrate what's true, with the perception only being for that. It's always fun. No matter what's manifesting, you're having a great time.

unknown 1:08:00

Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

And sometimes you you you might perceive like someone getting pissed at you over your point of view. That occurs to me from to me from time to time. People will get pissed at me. Natalie was sharing with me how she was just not reacting to her boyfriend's drama comments about like, I I love you so much though, and I can't be with you, or something like that. I miss you, and and all this kind of stuff. And she just wasn't reacting and wasn't buying into it, into that. And then, you know, he gets the sense like, wow, is your spiritual practice has made you cold, like actually cold. And it's not that it's cold, it's just that it's not playing into those patterns that are expected of you to get all sappy and oh yeah, you know, it's it's like people will see eventually, they might not even see in this lifetime, but that's not really your responsibility, and it's certainly not a reflection on you. But you attracted, let's say, someone of a lower vibrational frequency, right? That's what it looks like, right? Playing into victimhood, stuff like that. That is not a reflection on you because that's not the way it works, it's not like that. That's the new age manifestation um teachings. They're very guilty. So saying that he matched your frequency, right? Is like saying you're at that same frequency, even though you did all this work, you're fucking all victimized like this, right? No, it's not like that. It has to do with Holy Spirit's purpose for these relationships. There's something you get out of it, and there's something he gets out of it. That's the purpose. It's not like if you be a good girl, then you're always gonna be manifesting partners who are like this. You really want to undo the world. You don't really want to hide in the world with some fantasy relationship, right? You really want to use all of your interactive interactions with people to undo the world, right? And when you see it like that, it just becomes fun. You don't need to entrap the ego, it wants to entrap people, right? But we have all these memories together, you know. I know I noticed that too. It's like I've had you know, one friend like, but we've had we have all these memories together, and it's like it doesn't matter to me. It really doesn't matter to me. It's like joy right now matters to me. I'm not relating with a memory, I'm relating right now in the present moment. I don't care what we fucking did before. So loving the whole world as your only child, like the Buddha was saying, does not mean you are obligated to nurture particular people. It's like open your eyes and notice like what is nourishing for you in the giving and receiving. You can't live on a memory.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

I mean, a lot of people try to do it, try to have, but wow, those first two weeks of our relationship were really awesome, and now it's 17 years later. I've been trying to get those two weeks back. I've been trying to get them to be fun again, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:01

Me and Billy heard a song. It was really, it was really funny. It was a good rock and roll song, probably not very popular, but it's a man singing it about how he came into her life with laughter and all she brought was sorrow.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:19

He came in like a light in her darkness, bringing fun and play and laughter, and all she brought to him was sorrow. He's like, he's like, that's a what do you say? That's a funny way to tell me you love me.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

Right? It's like we just want to, we just want to have fun, and then we get into these relationship patterns, and that's and they they like squash out all the fun. Demands come on, right? It's like it's like the resentment starts building. So then it's hard for any kind of you know, sexual relating. It's hard for you to like be in that kind of way with each other like you are at the beginning, once these resentments pile up, right? You're not feeling that kind of amorous way, even. So it's like looking

Resentment Ends With No Neediness

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

at the resentments, it's like it's like, okay, resentment. I have resentment for this, for this person about this thing. What is that telling me? It's telling me that I'm feeling according to my own psyche, as if they need to do anything for me. They don't need to do anything for me. Number one is I do not need them in my life. Number one. That goes for everyone. I do not need them in my life. Period.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:55

Where it's like first, you recognize the pattern, and it seems like step one would have to be and I wanted it this way. So it's just like first a moment of gratitude. And that that seems like that would be okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:15

So Natalie's saying step one. Natalie is saying that before the before the step, I don't need anyone. It's like this is not saying I don't need people. We all need people, that's how it is for our relationships, so that we can undo, but we don't need anyone in particular. We do not need to keep a person in our life. Okay. So that like that, let that be the foundational thing. And then next thing is any relationships that come on to it, I made it like that. Right? Or you can you can do it the other way too. If you like it like that better, you just go, okay, because you're dealing with a relationship already, right? You're already in it, and you're going, okay, I made it this way. Okay, I made it this way. Yeah, great. That means I don't have to keep it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:05

Yeah, it's like such a tiny step that would be way easy to blaze over, but it seems really significant that you made it like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:18

Yeah, yeah. Well, you you made it. Here's how you made it. You made it like you need the person. That's what it is. Because if you didn't have the idea that you made that you need the person, whatever they're fucking doing, it's not a prop, right? It's only a problem when you made the idea that you need the person. That's where it becomes an issue about whatever they seem to be doing. So if you start with the base, I don't need to try to keep a person, right? Then whatever you make up, but you know, if you're already in it, then yes, if you're already in it, you're in the trigger, right? Already in the trigger. I made this up, right? If that helps you get release, if that's relieving, awesome. What it comes down to is why you're getting a trigger in the first place. And this is goes, this actually goes to undoing the whole thing, collapsing the pattern. So what you're talking about with uh what you're talking about with I made this up, okay, that that may be, that may be helping you to get some relief in the moment, but collapsing the pattern goes to the root of it, which is I don't need, I have no need. And for, you know, if he's because if that's not there, if there's not, if you're not, if you're not dealing with a sense that you need to keep this person or need the person to go away, need anything from them, right? You need them to behave a certain way. If you're not dealing with that, then there's nothing, there's nothing else about anything that they seem to be doing that's bothering you, right? So it's true, it is true that everything, and it's not it's not that you made them, let's look at it like this, too. It's not that you made them do the things you're doing, you made the interpretation. That's what you made, and you made the interpretation out of a needy thought. So you're going, I don't, you know, when you're recognizing I do not need to keep anything, then you can allow everything to unfold the way it is. See, it's just it, it's just that I I made it, I made it helps you also to see that no one's doing this to you. Right? So then you can you can extend love, right? You can extend love, you can have gratitude. That was another thing Natalie mentioned. It's gratitude, and that's the thing. It's like if you don't need, and they're and they're reflecting to you as if you do need, that's really what the gratitude is for, isn't it? It's like, it's like, thank you. You showed me where I still believe I need. That's really where the gratitude is coming into play. So what you made is you didn't make them do the thing, right? Like let's say just someone comes up and slaps you, right? You did not make them do the thing. What you make is the interpretation of it. See, so so it's like it's like, what is that for everyone to slap? It's gonna be different, right? It's like someone comes up and just like slaps you, right? It's like, whoa, whoo! And it's um immediately, what am I making of it?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:39

That's what it comes to.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:47

Uh okay, you can see things are happening for you and not to you. Yes, yes. That's and and that's the reason why. That's the reason why what Natalie's talking about. I mean, whether they're first, second, or together or whatever, it's still all good. That's why, that's the reason why this comes into play is recognizing I'm making it this way. Right. And then you then you're seeing, yeah, this is happening for me. This is an opportunity for me to undo things, see through things,

Trauma Bonds And The Addicted Feeling

SPEAKER_01 1:19:25

and let them be undone for me. Right, where are my attachments? And I gotta tell you, one feeling I actually like really enjoy is the sense where I'm getting a body sense where I'm really like like I would say addicted to a person. I would say it's like it feels like that. Where I'm getting a body sense, I'm addicted, right? And I could just hold that. I really like that. I don't have to play that out. I don't have to go and what do they call it? Trauma bond, right? Trauma bond, right? It's where you know it hurts, but you still keep on going back to that person looking for something, right? It's like I love that where I can feel it in the in in the body's energy field and just let that be undone right there, not having not in having to reenact trauma because reenacting trauma is really an ego game. That's not necessary. You only do it for as long as until you see, I don't want to keep on doing this anymore. And you know, people do it for lifetimes, that what I'm talking about. It's like keep on reaching toward that that person where you have it, you have a dynamic where it's like painful. Like, why would you do that? Like, it's kind of like you you you had some milk in the fridge and you took a sip of it and it was expired already, and then you stuck it back in there, and you're gonna try it later. It's not getting better. Yeah, we don't have to build anything, we don't have to build our relationships, that's unnecessary. Right? It just presents to us in the moment what it is. This is what is this is what it is given in the moment, right? Is it just presents to you? And I know, like with Tony, man, I just let him present to me in the moment. Just go, okay, show me, and then if I like it, I'll I'll I'll go with it, right? Just let him present to me in the moment. But where there's a trauma bond, that's a different thing, that's a different kind of energy. And I I think a lot of people know what I'm talking about with that, where you actually get have a body sense like you need that person.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:14

And and you know, I don't know, maybe it's fun where two people are like that together. I don't know. I've never had that happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:24

Usually people just get really scared when I'm like, but but that's it, that's definitely a different energy. And and so in seeing that, you know, I let it play out for a little while, get good get a good feel for it. And then it was like, oh, I'm not doing that anymore. And not in this lifetime, I can tell. I'm familiar with the feeling. It's like when you're familiar with the feeling, you go, oh, that's actually trauma. Then you're aware of what that feeling is, and you're like, I don't need to play that out again. There's no need to play that out again. And the thing about the trauma bonds, this is trippy. It's like the sexual energy is really heightened. And you know, a lot of people only relate through through trauma bonds all their relationships. They don't know a different kind of relationship. And I can tell you, like, with the exception of my relationship with Tony, all of them were trauma trauma bonds. That's why that one was so different. That's why it lasts so long. Because it's not like that. It's not, there's not a sense like like like he's like he's scared of me loving him or anything like that. You know, it's like, ah so when a trauma bond comes around, what we want to do is use it. That doesn't mean we have to learn through any kind of pain. So that means we don't have to go down the road through that kind of relating at all. It's a matter of seeing right away, okay, this feeling, I get familiar with the feeling, and now I know what it is. And when it arises again, I'm aware this is what this feeling is. Don't buy into it. Don't go down that path. Because if you go down that path of believing in those thoughts that are coming up with this kind of feeling, we know where it goes. We know it goes to its opposite. We know it's just it's just meaningless. So we only have to learn through relationships. This goes back to Natalie's question earlier about like, why am I receiving? You know, we only need to go through relationships where there's trauma bonds at all until we're seeing as we're getting hooked into it, as we're getting hooked into it, we're seeing it and recognizing it and being light with it, right? It's not it's not like rejecting a person either, or it's not like diminishing a person, like they have lower vibrational energy or anything like that. It's just that that's a trauma bond, and I'm not doing it. I've already done that before. I have the taste in my mouth still. No, it and it's it's like still, gratitude comes for everything. Gratitude comes for all of that, being able to see through that, being able to get in get into it and see right through it in really a relatively short time. Because people, like I say, are mostly only relating through trauma bonds. I mean, the kind of relationship that I've have with Tony, I say have, because even though we're not like living together or anything, we're still like we're kind of like brother and sister, right? That kind of relationship is actually more rare. That's what I notice. It's not a trauma bond. Because most of them are, most of them are looking like that. You know, they're looking like that. Wow, that is something where people just go almost to get beat up again and again, right? It's like it's it's like you're doing it wrong. You're you're you're bothering me, you're disturbing me, right? You're basically breathing is messing with me. What did I hear? What was one of the ones that I heard? Contaminated cum or something like that. Contaminating contaminated sperm. No more sex for you, fucker. Your sperm is contaminated. Since I got a yeast infection, your sperm is contaminated. It's good stuff. Yeah. And when we see what it is, we can just laugh about it, right? And when we're laughing about it, that's where the healing is actually taking place. When you're able to laugh about these patterns together, and even in your own, even on your own, even in in your own, on your own in private, if no one else is laughing with you, that's where the healing is taking place because now you're not taking this shit seriously. It's like let them, I'm, I'm happy, let let them come with the trauma bond energy. Let them come with that trauma bond energy. I'm happy about it. I'm looking for uh I'm looking for the opportunities to demonstrate to myself that the truth is true. It's not like I'm trying to push that kind of stuff away. I'm totally willing to feel that way again. Right. And without the without the other side of it where it hurts, that's the thing. It's like feel that feeling like you're Falling in love that really doesn't have to do with a person. So we can keep it. Right? We keep it with us. And it grows within ourselves. And then it can just manifest in a variety of ways or not manifest at all. And it's just perfect within ourselves. That's the whole purpose of falling in love, really. So we could see what we're capable of. And I know, like from my perspective, what falling in love is like, it's like a spring day, I would say. It's just a carefree spring day until someone gets scared.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:39

It's like la-di da. Wait a minute, where's this going? I'm just like, can we just la de da a little bit more?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:56

Yeah. It's like it's like they naturally relationships naturally come together and uh and and then and then go separate paths or just change or whatever naturally anyways. So it's like while we're just skipping along having fun, you know, it's like there's this sense of control comes in. And it's like ah right?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:22

It's like ah and then I get the I get the perception of them going, ah, and I'm like, what the fuck? Really? You don't want to have fun anymore? Is that really okay?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:41

But it's not like I take that as if there's something wrong with me because I'm manifesting that kind of relating. I'm taking it as this is an opportunity to undo what is uh troubling most of the population. And not looking at anything is problematic. That's the other thing. Not looking at anything. It's all, it's all, it's all perfect the way it's unfolding. Nothing's problematic about it. So it's like you could see what kind of dynamics are being played out and not making a problem about it. Does it mean that does it mean that we're not going to be hanging out together? Possibly. But that's not my goal is to try to make it so that I get to keep people around forever. I'm not, that's not what the goal is. The goal, again, is coming to the truth. And whatever people manifest in the field around that is perfect. And they're gonna be uplifting, and you're gonna, you know, it everyone's uplifting when you let them be, really. Just let them be uplifting. It's only that again, the idea that you need them to be different, and that could be even be applied to strangers, you know, needing people to drive differently on the on the road. When you're recognizing I have no needs, that means anyone can drive around me any kind of way they want. And you don't have this need to try to control, you know, because it look at what the mind just does. It goes into maybe a law needs to be made, or it'll just how do we solve this? And you know, just letting things be as they are and letting solutions come along in the same kind of way, just unfold. The solutions just come through without us trying to chase solutions. And, you know, what I noticed about my life since realizing that is there's just nothing, there's nothing that seems to be pressing on me like I need to figure anything out. It's just all is just unfolding as it needs to. It's like, you know, sometimes I'll get perception. Oh, maybe I'll be doing that. And I'll kind of like feel into that perception of doing something like in a future thought and just feel into it and see how it resonates. That's all. And it's it's kind of like I know, I know what I need to do in the moment, I know where I need to go in the moment because that's what is joyful, it's resonant. And it could even be like I'm washing some buckets or something. It's the obviously the most joyful thing to do at that time. It just becomes obvious. It's in the moment,

Obligation Versus Holy Spirit Joy

SPEAKER_01 1:32:40

it's very obvious. If there's a a thing where I feel like, like a little bit earlier, Billy and I were doing Yoga Nidra. We're doing yoga nidra for astral travel now. It's so nice. Oh my gosh, it's so good. We're doing some Yoga Nidra, and we ended at about two. And this starts at three. And I was on the couch, and I was like, oh, I just feel like chilling. I just feel like chilling, but I'm gonna do wisdom dialogues and just and just noticing okay, there's uh a direction I could go. I could just cancel it right now and chill out, right? I could just call it off Mother's Day later on. And then getting the sense of doing wisdom dialogues. Doing the wisdom dialogues was the winner. That's all. It was the winner in terms of joy. I could just see myself sitting over here having a great ass time. So then that motivated me to get up and fix my hair, right? And go in and and and clean up a little bit in the kitchen, right? Drink some tea, have some spliff. It's just it's just basic as in it's it's not what I should do. It's not what, it's not how people are gonna are gonna be about it or anything like that. It's like, where is the Holy Spirit's nudge? Holy Spirit comes through joy. So I'm seeing how the exuberant, I can just follow this exuberantly joyful energy with everything that I seem to do, even whether I call a person, right? It at anything. If there's not like an obligatory time, you know, today's Mother's Day, apparently. And I haven't called my mom, I might call her, we'll see. But she gets tired around 5 p.m. So this is over at 5 p.m. Yeah, this is over at 5 p.m. But my mom, the way our relationship is too, doesn't even mind. For one, she's got six kids, right? And and also, whenever my mom and I have played that kind of energy, I've used it to demonstrate to myself and also demonstrate to my mom. It was very quick. It was so quick. My mom had some kind of thing. Why didn't you do such and such and such and such? And I was like, you know, the way I the way I was with it, I don't know what I said, but the way I was with it kind of like clicked because my mom doesn't use me for that. You know, she might play that with another brother or sister, where it's like this energy, like you didn't call, but she didn't play that with me, right? Because I because I'm just like free. It's like you just demonstrate to yourself, I'm just I'm just free, right? And and then when whenever we call, we're we connect so nicely because it's not based on obligations, it's not like based on sorry, I didn't call for Mother's Day. It's more like this. Did you have an awesome Mother's Day? You know, you don't start out with sorry because you're not programmed like that anymore. When you're programmed towards sorry, you lead with sorry, right? You lead the conversation with sorry. My little sister had her birthday, and and and on the day of her birthday, I wasn't guided to reach out. And and then maybe like four days later or something, it was just like huge. It was just like, oh, I'm calling my sister. And we had a great conversation. There was nothing about how I didn't call her on her birthday. It was like, so did you have a great birthday? You know, like what did you guys do and stuff? Right? There's no loss, there's no being too late. There's only if we listen to the worldly things, we're we cannot also be listening to the Holy Spirit. You can't listen to both masters, right? It's like there's two masters, one's the world, one's all your obligations and things you're supposed to do. I should really be there or something like that, right? And I notice that in my in my energy field, you know, it's like I could, I could notice it and then sit with it, not resist it, not resist it. Right. I want to sit with that energy. If I'm doing something, if I find myself myself doing something and it seems to be based on obligation, it's not like I'm trying to make myself not do that thing. I want to be with the sense of obligation and watch how it's running me, right? I want to know. Well, that's again, I made it like this, Natalie, like what you're talking about. I made it like this. I made this into an obligation, right? Because it's neutral. Remember, all perception is neutral. So it's the meaning that we're giving to it that's making it either difficult for us or something that engenders gratitude.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:49

I like that phrase. I want to know what's running me.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:53

Yeah. I want to see it because, and that's how you see it. You remain conscious through these manifestations where disappointment, hurt, anything like that, remain with it with willingness to see what it is, because that's what Jesus is talking about when he's talking about collapsing time. We're actually seeing the underlying what is it that is that's keeping these patterns running around again and again and again. And it comes to some kind of scarcity, neediness kind of thing. Once that collapses, then the patterns collapse. So a lot of the patterns that I was playing with my husband collapsed as soon as I saw I was sustained by the love of God. Right? So it's it's like it's like it was just came like almost like dawn, uh like dawn on the mind. It's like, oh, I'm sustained by the love of God. I do not need anything. So from that place of not needing anything, what does it feel like? Am I staying or going? And it's just obvious. I'm always open to that changing, of course. I mean, it's it's not like I write anyone off ever. I don't write anyone off ever. It's I just watch where is the exuberant joy? What is leading into a sharing of exuberant joy? That's how I like to be. That's how I like to relate with people. So I just keep on relating in that way, and then if they want to, they can. New friends are very similar to new relationships because they haven't built any resentments yet. So there's no feeling like, oh, you know, I've for instance, these obligations for one thing. It's like you didn't call me on my birthday or something like that. You didn't plan a thing. You didn't do, you didn't do what you were supposed to do. I I told you that that person was a bad person to me, and then you still talk to them, kind of thing, right? So so I I would come up, I would come up against stuff like that where it would be it would be like, oh, well, the fun, the exuberance is now not to be nowhere to be seen because of the projections onto me, right? And when I go somewhere new, those there's those, there's not those projections. So we can be exuberant again, right? So I'm always open to long-term relationships, long-term friend friendships where we keep the exuberance going. And you know what? That's what I noticed between me and Tony. Totally have that. You know, it's like it, it's like just because the form of the relationship changed, where we're not in a marriage and we're not living together and having a romantic sexual connection, however you want to look at that, it doesn't mean that we don't have that exuberance together. It just naturally comes out. Like we just have a telephone conversation together and we're just having a great time. And even more so now that we both see that we have held resentments toward each other. And, you know, we can when once we see them, the forgiveness is automatic because we're both kind of like in the mindset where it's forgiveness before. So when we see the resentment pattern, it's like, oh shit, yeah, I had uh I had this resentment pattern for you because you did this at this time, and it's like, and it's like we talk about that stuff with each other, and it's like, oh honey, I didn't mean that, you know? And it's just really sweet. Because you, it's like when you can talk about these things with each other, it's like, it's like, man, when you that just when when that when you did that and I and I felt like that, and it just like turned something inside of me, and I just like really felt like like like I didn't fucking want this anymore, right? And and when the when the person can see it and go, oh honey, man, I did not know. It's like we don't know we're doing this to each other. It's funny. And oh, and and really like just feeling with the person, oh I I can imagine, wow, how it felt, you know, just like being like that. So then the resentments actually they go away because it's not like I'm making him wrong for it, right? I'm not saying never do it again. It's like, oh, I had this experience. It was like, and it was like a core, it was like, oh, and I see that I see how that's really healing too, because it's like instantly, it's like ah, it's like you're seen and you can see that you don't need to hold the pain for it anymore. You don't need to hold a story about it, you don't need to hold on to it, right? So they can go on and on with exuberant joy, and that's what I notice with my mom too. When we interact, it's just a freaking party, whether it's on FaceTime or in person, it's just really joyful. And and I can see how you know being so familiar with my mom, too, how it's like the Holy Spirit just uses this relationship to just keep on lifting and raising the energy as far as like seeing what's true. Because my mom will sometimes have a tone that's not that exuberant energy, and it's just so easy for her to be reminded through my energy that oh yeah, I'm an exuberant, joyful being. You know, that might not be the way she actually says it, but that's the way she lives, and that's the way she likes to live. So when she's out of it, what she would probably call out of the spirit, she's told me that I've rebuked her before in a good way.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:36

I don't look at it as rebuking her at all. I'm just like, hey, you know, you can be happier if you look at it like this. You know, I know you want to be happier.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:46

And that's like kind of like the the motivation for her because she knows she wants to be happier too. She won't, she knows she wants to see what's true. So I find myself interacting most of the time with people who like to be in exuberant joy with me. You notice that? I mean, like I just tend to be interacting with the people who like to do that. And you know, it could be irritating to certain people. I mean, who knows? I have I I I've been living with different people and just noticing, you know, it could be irritating. Like the first person I was living with at the hive, you know, she would get pretty irritated. But then by the time I left, four months later, you know, she was going, it's been so peaceful with you here. You know, she would just get irritated because I wouldn't get on these vibes like anything is wrong. And it's like, how could you just be like that? You know, so to some people, it's like, how could you just be like that? And you know, it's like to me, it's the only reasonable way to be. How can I be another way? Right? It's really the only reasonable way to be. And it's like, I'm not I'm not saying that that that your intensity should be another way. I'm saying I fucking appreciate your intensity. I'm not saying you have to accept me, you know, you're not saying you have to accept that I just let things be as they are.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:32

Right. Can I uh say something? Yes, please say something. Um, I remember too when I was a kid and seeing that energy thing play out where it's like I noticed as a kid, yes, oh, exuberant joy, and then something would happen there'd be a resentment, and I'm like, oh my god, where did it go? And then I remember as a kid just being like, there must be a solution to this, and just looking and looking and like not finding any solution for how to resolve that world. And so I think I had my own little thing of like built and talent. Like, there's gotta be a better way. Yeah, and that comes up definitely like of the early 20s. Oh, okay. I looked all over the world for where is this solution to this thing, right? Exuberance went away because there is a resentment. I looked everywhere for where this solution is, uh-huh, couldn't find it. So that was my like, uh, there's gotta be a better way. What is this?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:38

Yeah. Yep. To to remain to remain like that is really to remain in the truth. So you remain like that. Like, okay, I I'm getting another recollection of 12 years old. There was a girl who I was in this state with like exuberant joy, like we're talking about. And all of a sudden she was pissed at me about something. So she decided to berate my appearance and tell me how ugly I am, right? And so uh, so I I just told her, Well, I still really love you and I still think you're totally beautiful, you know. And then that just shifted it. She's like, Really? I go, Yeah, you're my friend, you know? It's like, and then that shifted that energy of that particular, that particular relationship. That's why it stuck out to me because I was like, wow, I just didn't start being mean back. Yeah, yeah. And then, and then I got what I wanted. I got my friend, right? Uh, you know, that's about 12 years old, though. And as people tend to go on, this is a kid, kids shift much faster. As people tend to go on, they tend to hold on to resentments more, and you can't take their resentments away from them. Right. All you can do is recognize that that's not where the exuberant joy is now, right? And stay open. Staying open means meaning you're not spending your time chasing what used to be, right? You're staying open for something new to emerge, whether it's with that same person or not, that could occur. It could be with the same person, it could be another person. But the thing is, you're not chasing a dynamic that's passed.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:37

Another aspect of that too that I noticed early in my marriage was like a sense of like uh being found out. Like I would show a dark side, and then my husband would see that, and then it's like, oh shit, you know, now he saw that dark. Side of me. Right. There's no way to resolve that. I've been found out. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:07

It came out. Yeah. The dark side came out.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:10

Yeah. So she's talking about like in relationships, you know, at first that you're you could say dark side, quote unquote. Uh basically the ego, your wounds, your wounding, where you're reacting to your wounding. That's what people are calling the dark side, right? When that's coming out, it's like, oh no, if they see me like that, they're not gonna love me. Right? It's up to you to recognize that even whatever's coming out in the wounding, it's helpful. Thank you for playing. That's what I used to tell Tony, thank you for playing. Right? Yeah, it's like it's like that's wounding coming out. Thank you for playing. And it's like there's a uh there's there's a a dance happening here. You're really not just flitting out on uh like that on your own. There's actually a dance happening here where that's my wounding. And it's like it's like, oh, okay. And it's if we're aware of that, that's what it is, we're helpful to one another. And you know, we we can do that as as friends, uh, parents, child, love, lovers, boss, employee, whatever kind of relationships, partnerships, anything where we're willing to see, oh, that's just my wounding coming out. That doesn't really mean anything about you. I'm not stuck to that. Right. Yeah. And the same thing when their wounding comes out, it's like that doesn't really mean anything. We don't have to be stuck to that. But you know, a lot of the times the way people want to resolve something is through apologizing, which that really builds more resentment than anything because they're because this way of apologizing, it's like as if I've actually done something for one. So you're making it as if I've already done something and also as if it wasn't helpful, right? So when people relate like that, it's as if there's been something healed. And usually in the beginning, it looks like okay, we've both apologized, now we feel better, everything like

Gratitude Instead Of Apology Rituals

SPEAKER_01 1:52:30

that. But it's has strengthened the idea that you guys can harm one another. So then that keeps on rolling around, you know, after the apologizing. So what I was sharing with one of my friends when I was in Sedona, because they seem to have like a little rift. A couple of friends seem to have like a little rift in their relationship, and they wanted to do their usual ritual that they've done a million times where they call each other and apologize and admit their wrongdoing and apologize, right? I'm like, I know that feels good in the moment you guys are doing it because that's the ritual that it's like, this is what I need to make me feel okay. But what you're doing is strengthening the idea that you guys can hurt each other. And she, and and my friend goes, Well, what would you what would you recommend I do? Okay, okay, hypothetically, if I'm in this situation right now and it seems like someone had had like a reaction to me, a reaction to the way I was, the way I was being, and I felt like I really needed to reach out to them, I would reach out to them with gratitude, thanking them for before being a light in my life, right? This is totally different than approaching it from wrongdoing. You just meet with gratitude, thankful. And then and then that demonstrates to your mind, this is where it, this is where the proof comes in again. It demonstrates to your mind that nothing went wrong. See? When you're willing to see in the midst of illusion, something went wrong, is the illusion that nothing went wrong. That's the miracle. Isn't that so funny guys? Yay! I hope everyone is having a glorious, glorious day. And I am going to be on break for a little bit. I know I'm not gonna start wisdom dialogues again until the the Monday after the 25th, because I'm actually booked up on the 25th for a fun ass

Schedule Updates And Donations

SPEAKER_01 1:54:45

party. It's one of my best friends, Marina's parties, and it's all day long. So I'm gonna start wisdom dialogues after the 25th, and I'll probably start ACIM deep dives that same week. It's gonna go to Monday. I'm gonna have events Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, as far as I know. It's gonna be Monday wisdom dialogues, Tuesday ACIM lesson. I don't know if I'm gonna record that, but that's gonna be in person in Kehenna in case you guys want to come. I believe it's 1:30. Is that the time?

SPEAKER_05 1:55:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:22

1:30 p.m. Kehenna time on Tuesdays. And then also I'm going back to my Hawaii schedule. So it's gonna be 3 p.m. Hawaii time, and then Wednesday's gonna be, so the 3 p.m. are gonna be Monday and Wednesday. Wisdom dialogues, ACIM deep dive. I will be there until September, and then I'll take another little break. So I'll be going uh going pretty steady three times a week, probably for like three, three and a half months or something like that. And we'll see you guys recently.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:57

Start doing six weeks again, like you did for that six six a week.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:01

That that funky time where you were like on fire, man. You're like, I see that's when I was going through it, too. It was so wild, man. Oh I got two dudes, and it's like all fucking so great. That's those are the times. I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:18

That was a great time. That's all the times. I I love it all, you guys. All right, so hopejohnson.org. That's where you can find recordings. I'm gonna start posting here pretty soon. I can feel it coming on. I start posting the ones that I've recorded, and you can follow me on oops, that's my son calling the say happy mother's day to me. You can follow, you can follow me on Facebook, you can follow me on Substack, you can follow me on Telegram. Been having a lot of fun with posts in ACIM groups on uh especially ACIM groups on Facebook. Actually, get more interaction in the ace this one ACIM group than I do on my page. It's amazing. People are pretty are pretty active on there. So if you want to check that out, you can always come around there. Yeah, I do all this on donation. So thank you to everyone who donates. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for for for your support, wisdom dialogues, ACIM deep type, whatever, whatever else I'm fucking doing, which changes too. Thank you so much. And if anyone is interested in donating, go to hopejohnson.org, go to the donate tab. You can do regular donations if you want. Even I think you can do like 10 bucks a month. That is all helpful. Everything's awesome. And if any any trouble with that, just reach out to me. I'm easy to contact right on my website, hopejohnson.org. There is a chat box. You can feel free to chat it up with me. Yeah. Woo-hoo, Cora. All right. Okay, what is Sid saying? I am ever grateful to you for reminding me that all relationships are headed toward holy, no other option. I love you. Yay! Yes, that is correct. I love that. Thank you. Thank you for taking that reminder. I love it. All right, everyone. Until next time. Mahalo, aloha, and a hooey ho. Until next time, I come to you from Hawaii.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:36

Yay,