Interdependence | July 3, 2026 | Hawaiian Sanctuary

Independence sounds noble until you notice what it quietly implies: separation, competition, and a world full of threats. Hope Johnson takes that assumption head-on, using Independence Day as a doorway into a deeper spiritual idea of interdependence rooted in nonduality and the “one mind” view. If you’ve ever felt like other people, your body, or your circumstances are the reason you can’t relax, this conversation offers a radically different map: peace is not something you earn later, it’s something you uncover by changing how you perceive right now.

We explore a simple diagnostic that cuts through spiritual jargon: any feeling less than gratitude points to a belief worth questioning. From everyday irritation to full-blown anger, the talk reframes upset as a signal that we’ve accepted the separation story again and started projecting threat outward. Hope walks through a grounded example of being “ripped off” when a newly purchased car breaks down, showing how blame loops form, how fear forecasts a broken future, and how a small amount of willingness can interrupt the pattern without sliding into guilt or denial.

From there, we connect interdependence to manifestation and “creating your life,” but not in the usual hustle-forward way. When we chase a future outcome to fix a present sense of lack, we reinforce the very discomfort we’re trying to escape. The alternative is choosing between love and fear in the mind, returning to the present moment, and learning to look for innocence in every person and every circumstance, even when you still take practical action in the world.

If this hits home, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s stuck in a blame loop, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show. What belief are you ready to question today?

Transcript

Mic Check And Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Oh, that's how you do it.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

It's a mic. I can always talk really loud. I have a loud voice. Can everyone hear me in here? Yes. Oh. Alright. Just don't grab it. Don't grab them. I can't grab it. I gotta stand still. Alright, I can do this. Good. Okay. Aloha! I'm Hope Johnson. And I'm so happy to be here with a cute little talk for you guys today. It's only about a half hour. Someone's gonna have to let me know when I'm getting close to time, too, because I don't see a thought anyway. You guys can just go on.

Independence Versus Interdependence

SPEAKER_00 1:14

So Interdependence. Since it's close to Independence Day, I'm gonna talk about interdependence to start out with. We'll see how it goes. We'll see where it goes. Independence, uh, first of all, you know, it's celebrated as be separate from something else. And we're not separate, there's no separation. The idea that we can't survive apart from each other is not a reality. In fact, we're one mind, and as we see it here, as if we're separate by these bodies looking like they're separate, that's not actually the truth, that's actually an illusion. So there is no separation, meaning there is no independence from one another. Since we're one in the creator or what you might call God, there's no separate being anywhere. And the idea that we want to be separate from anyone is the cause of perceiving a separate world where things seem to be threatening. Notice, you know, we're celebrating Independence Day here in the USA, and notice that's that's celebrating independence from what another country, right? It's as if we found our place separate from a bunch of other people, but that hasn't really occurred. There's still conflict, there's still wars, and the reason why we perceive these kinds of things, including death, death is also not a reality, because of believing that we can be independent from one another and ultimately independent from the creator. That's not a reality, and you know, I hear people, especially in the spiritual community, talking about interdependence. Okay, that's what that's more like a reality. Interdependence because we absolutely do depend on one another because we're one mind, we are one mind. It's just that the way this gets looked at is totally different than the way we're actually interdependent. It ends up being this dependency instead, as if we need other people to cooperate. We actually don't need anyone to apparently cooperate because they all are cooperating already, no matter what it is that they seem to be showing us, they may showing up be showing us complete lack of cooperation. But the thing is, we're not seeing anyone clearly because we're not seeing ourselves clearly, because we've misunderstood what we are, and in misunderstanding what we are, we're perceiving a world where things and people seem to be threatening to us. So that's the main theme of this idea that we can be independent, that things are threatening. As soon as we believe in separation, there's a world of seemingly separate parts, people with seemingly separate interests. Okay, they may even think they have separate interests. There's plenty of people who are running around insane, right? They believe they have separate interests, and they may try to put their interests onto you. They may be greedy, they may be fearful, they may be acting insanely. Very common. It's just that you are not in any way threatened by any of that. It's just that when you become fearful, then it projects them as if they are fearful. And that's this even includes people with a whole bunch of power in the world, apparent power in the world. When we believe that they actually can be threatening to us, then it appears that way. So there's nothing in the world that can harm us in any way. When we perceive that we are being harmed, hurt, threatened, even by our own bodies. Let's say our body seems to malfunction in some way. That's very common, right? One major malfec malfunction, which I talked about before, is death. That's a major malfunction. That's not a reality. We're eternal beings. So the idea that we even have to die, we have to get sick, we have to get old, all that stuff, even the aging process, we've made it up, and we can, not only can we reverse it, but we actually will reverse it. It's actually, it's it's actually something that is not even up for question. We will reverse it. It's a matter of when we will be willing to see things differently and stop trusting in what our senses tell us. You know, the senses that we take in through the five senses and the nervous system and the brain interpreting things, these are interpreting nonsense. Okay? These are not real senses, they're interpreting what we take in through perceiving through the thought of separation. All perception that we have of this world is underlined with the thought that we are separate. We basically took on this one thought and made a whole world about it. People, a whole world with it. So it's real, it's real simple to see past the perception. It's just that it's not easy because of the way we have been trained.

Upset Feelings As A Warning Light

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Okay? It's the way our minds have been trained. We get a feeling. Any feeling that's less than gratitude. Okay, any kind of upset. Frustration is just the same as murderous rage, okay? They're actually the same thing. This is not to make you feel guilty when you feel frustrated about something. It's not like that at all. Because guilt is one of them. There's no gratitude in guilt either, is it? So this is not a matter of making yourself feel guilty for having any upset feeling. It's to become alert when there's an upset feeling, there is a misbelief justifying it. That misbelief can absolutely be brought to the truth through your willingness. Okay? Now, there's all kinds of scenarios where this can occur, and I'm just gonna give a little bit of an example so you guys can apply it to your own life and how things happen.

The Car Rip Off As Practice

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Let's say you got uh ripped off. Let's say you got ripped off, let's say uh you bought a car and got bought a car from someone and they told you it was a good car, and you pay a bunch of money for it, and you get it home, and then it starts to not run, okay? It starts, I hear this story a lot in tuna. It's so common. That's why I thought I'd bring it up. All right. So, yes, yes, there's frustration there. There's a sense of being treated unfairly, okay? Watch this. This is common where we get treated unfairly. It's actually a habit that we put into play where we can even have a perception like this. It's totally untrue. Impossible, cannot happen. Okay, so now you're getting a perception that you got a bunch of work to do and you got a bunch of money that you gotta make. And if you don't make the money, you're not gonna be able to pay your rent and you don't have a car, and now you're walking and you're asking people to borrow their car. I know, I know, it's not it's not easy to see through this at first. You know, it's it's kind of it's it's difficult because you're used to seeing, you know, myself being treated unfairly, and now I have to deal with this. Now, watch so. This is such a good opportunity. This is just one example of such a sweet opportunity to turn things around. You are not affected by the things you see in the world, you're actually being affected by your own thoughts. You actually are, you wouldn't take it as a blessing. You refuse to take it as a blessing that the car doesn't work, right? Because you got all these reasons why it's not a blessing. You've got all these reasons out. This is a habit that's formed through conditioning, it's actually a habit. You don't have to do this anymore. You can stop right now. Uh, you know, it it may not be that you stop today, but if you are, if you see this and you go, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just like uh maybe not trust what I'm saying, maybe hope that what I'm saying is true. Maybe just hope that what I'm saying is true, okay? If you hope that what I'm saying is true and you can totally get out of this, you know, being in a being in a world that seems separate and seems to be threatening to you, and circumstances beyond your control seem to be happening, screwing you up all the time, hope that you can get out of this, okay? Then you offer just like a little bit of willingness, just a little bit. It's like, hey, I remember that wild chick told me one time that this is not really happening, that this is not really going on. So it's like a little nod to the truth, just in your experience, a little nod to the truth. When you do that, you're calling on the spirit to help you, to open you up, to see it this way. The only reason you don't see it this way right now is because you closed yourself off. You said no. When you took on the thought of separation, okay, when you took on the thought of separation and manifested yourself as a baby being born in a separate world, okay, you've conditioned yourself heavily to even do that, to even manifest as a little baby body in a separate world. You conditioned yourself heavily, okay. So now you can uncondition yourself just by that little offering. It's a small offering to spirit, and see, spirit, which is actually who you are, Christ is who you are, will rise up in you and show you more and more how to see this differently. Okay, and you you know, if you if you ask and you go, I want more than anything, more than I want to get a car that works, for instance, more than I want to make the money I think I want to make. More than all that, you gotta want it more than any of that stuff in the world. More than any of this. I am determined to see this differently. That's really what it is. I am determined to see this differently. I'm determined to see that I'm all powerful mind. I'm determined that I I'm determined that I'm gonna see that I am Christ. And that is very important that you're willing to see that you are Christ and not other than that. But here's another thing: you cannot be aware that you're Christ if you hold anyone else out of that identity. Anyone, so that means the person who apparently ripped you off by selling your car doesn't work now. That person, notice your mind's projection, blaming the person. It's saying that person treated me unfairly. This is where, too, you need to want to see it differently. You have to wanna see it, okay? This is not about making yourself guilty at all. This is where the ego goes with it. The ego takes it to I'm bad. I'm never gonna get it, I'm never gonna see that I'm the Christ. I do too many drugs or whatever your fucking story is, okay? It doesn't matter what you seem to do. All right, you're not this purity of mind has nothing to do with what you seem to do in the field of experience. It has nothing to do with anyone what anyone else seems to do in the field of experience. And I'm not talking about spiritual bypassing it. I'm not talking about painting lipstick on a pig, okay? I'm not talking about like this person, this you know, saying this person didn't rip me off. That's the same thing as saying they ripped me off, okay? It's not like that. In the field of experience, they ripped you off, okay? That's one level, that's one level of experience. It's actually totally separate, talked about independent, totally independent from the mind that you are that can make a decision here to see that this is a projection, and you want to see beyond the senses that this person is Christ. Okay, maybe they're an asshole too. It could be that way. Okay, it's fine. Okay. I'm not saying I'm not saying you're supposed to talk nice about them. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that these ideas that they're to blame for your experience, you have to want to see that differently. You do not have to talk nice about them. You just watch what you speak, though, because what you speak is saying that they have some kind of power to affect how you feel, to affect your peace. So basically, all you want, all you ever really want is peace. That's really what you want, okay? And the way to see is to recognize that the way to see that you actually have peace because you have never lost it, you have never lost peace. The way to see that you have it is to recognize that these projections are hiding it from you, they're making it so that you're unaware of the peace that's here now. And peace is really awareness of your innocence. True innocence cannot be harmed. True innocence is strength, it cannot be harmed by another person. Okay, so it's as if you've lost your innocence, it's as it's as if you've lost your wholeness. Anytime you perceive a feeling that's less than grateful, that's what's going on. Now, again, I like to repeat this because I know how big ego is getting all up in your in your mind, telling you because you're having a feeling that's less than gratitude, something's wrong with you. Okay, nothing's ever wrong with you. You remain as you've been created. Nothing's wrong with you, okay? Something has definitely gone wrong. That's for sure. Because you're out of gratitude, that means that you don't know who you are in the moment. So something has gone wrong, but nothing is wrong with you, okay? You're you're just making a decision for something that you've practiced over and over again, which is the thought of separation. So now you're going, I don't need that anymore. I don't want that anymore. I notice the feeling. I don't like this feeling. I don't like feeling less than grateful, right? I don't like it. Notice that. You know, it's like it's like people don't notice when they're angry or frustrated or irritated or anything like that that they don't like how they feel. I don't like how I feel. Well, when you recognize I don't like how I feel, and then you recognize, oh, I'm making myself feel this way. Awesome! I'm the one making the decision. I'm completely in charge of this here, right? Um so I'm gonna decide that I want to see, I just want to see it differently, or I'm determined to see it differently, or I hope I can see it differently. If that's all the kind of willingness you can give. Whatever little bit it is, it's gonna grow. And look, your experience are gonna keep on rolling around. These are unloops. You know, you get a feeling that someone's treated you unfairly, that's a loop. It's gonna loop around again until you're laughing at that interpretation, until you're totally laughing at it. And the idea that now you're screwed because you gotta walk everywhere, the idea that you can't make your wrist, you're laughing at that idea. See, you start to look at everything like this is a blessing, and and then you see possibilities. I'm sure you've heard it's very cliche that all possibilities are possible, right? You've heard that before. Well, you actually can see possibilities that you couldn't see before when you are seeing everything as a blessing, no matter what it seems to be. You

Gratitude Under Pressure

SPEAKER_00 17:49

know, I've been practicing this for quite a long time, so yeah, my life is all rosy. Okay, yes, it is fabulous. Again, and it didn't start out that way, but you know, at one point I found myself at the bottom of a cliff. I fell off a cliff, and the first thing that came to my mind was thank you. Right? First thing, and I I knew that it was gonna reveal so much that I could use. I knew that that I didn't know what it was, I didn't have an idea, I didn't have a question why did I fall off a cliff? Because it's a chaotic world. Stupid shit happens here, apparently, right? But seeing this has to be a blessing, and having been practicing that for a while, that that's just the first thought that came to my mind at the bottom of the cliff. I didn't know if I could was gonna ever walk again. I had no idea. Now there was no one even around, it's all dark, and the first thing is thank it, right? I just know that things are working in my favor because of the practice. So you start somewhere and you start practicing right where you are, whatever situation you seem to find yourself in. Remember that you're the the holy one. You are the holy one. There's nothing you can do to make yourself any holier than gift. Uh, you also have to remember, though, that everyone is in the same situation. They're also believing that they're separate, and they're probably acting weird because they believe they're separate. They may be rude. One of my friends who was gonna come see my talk today, apparently she was uh turned around at the gate and said, I'm gonna hunt you down if you try to save me. You better just turn around and get the fuck out of here. So that's her healing opportunity for tonight. She's somebody comes in my talks all the time. Yes, you start to see everything differently. You start to see it like that, like, okay, this is giving me an opportunity, so I'm not taking on a thought that something is wrong. Okay. Uh let me know, let me know when I get close to the final fact, no idea.

Rethinking Interdependence And “Help”

SPEAKER_00 19:56

So, also interdependence. Speaking of interdependence, this is another way it comes up, okay? It's as if you want to manifest something. Let's say you want to manifest something, you have a vision, you have a big vision, you want to manifest something. Maybe yourself is something, maybe you want a better body, maybe you want a partner, maybe you want to uh make some kind of a butterfly sanctuary or something like that, and you're going, How do I get these things to happen? Maybe you just want people to be nicer to you, maybe you want people to take care of you. A lot of the times when people think of interdependence, they're thinking of people taking care of me. Like we're all taking care of each other. It is not like that at all. It has nothing to do with the illusion, it has nothing to do with anything that's here, okay? The way we're interdependent again is that we depend on each other for our very life, okay? And whatever we perceive of each other in an illusion, we are giving to each other as a gift, whatever that is. This is how we're interdependent, whatever that is, we are giving it to each other as a gift so we can recognize our own wholeness and our own innocence. Okay, so this is the way to look at interdependence. This is the reason why we perceive anyone, they're all giving us a gift. Everyone is one in Christ. Whatever happens to appear on the field, again, that is neither here nor there. You may be taking someone to court, who knows? You know, you may be exercising self-defense and kicking someone in the head, you know. But what I'm saying is that's a completely different level than the level of mind where we are, and seeing people as threats, seeing people as threats or seeing people as benefits in a worldly way, really the same thing. They're all a hundred percent beneficial a hundred percent of the time, no matter what it is that's. They're showing it. So when you get the sense that you want other people to learn how to be better people so you can feel better, you're missing the point. You're actually attacking your own mind. Okay? And they're actually gonna feel that as attack. They're actually gonna feel it like that. You know, people who want to make a community and make everyone behave inside the of the community like that, people feel that as an attack. And that's why that shit doesn't work, okay? That's why people end up ostracized and bitter and all this kind of stuff, okay? If you look at everyone as they're a blessing, no matter what they do, you're allowing them to see as they are. You may have you may have a response to it. You may seemingly have a response. Seemingly you're not making any choices about what you say, and either of it. No

The Only Choice Love Or Fear

SPEAKER_00 22:47

choices are being made by you or them about what you say, what you do, what you eat, what you drink, who you have sex with, none of these things. You're not making any of those choices. You are making one choice between two alternatives all the time. And those alternatives can be spoken of as love and fear, life and death, truth and illusion. Yeah. Okay? Though that same alternatives all the time. That's all you're ever doing. So when you think that you can train people to treat you the way you think you want to be treated, you're actually attacking your own mind. You're setting yourself up for sickness, injury, death, conflict, all these kinds of things. Okay. But when you see that the interdependence is actually saying, these people are 100% helpful 100% of the time. And also, you know what? I'm 100% helpful 100% of the time. What a beautiful way to look at myself, you know, because I'm not making any choices in this field. I am not making one single choice here in this field. I'm only making a choice in the mind between truth and illusion, like I said, love and fear, death and life, really. Okay. So back to manifestation. You're trying to manifest something and you're feeling like, you know, it's not here, and I need to get it here. Okay, that's the that's the lack of wholeness that you're perceiving right there. Okay, you're actually perceiving lack of wholeness when it seems like there's something I want to do, I have a vision or something I want to do, and it's not here. I'm not, I haven't attracted the people into my field to help me, to help me do this vision. Okay, all this is an attack on your mind. Okay, that's all this is. So the way to see it is to recognize I seem to want something that's down the road in the future. Thank

Manifestation Without Chasing The Future

SPEAKER_00 24:39

you. I seem to I I sound different. I see, I seem to want something somewhere in the future. If you want, if you seem to want something that's coming in the future, stop right there. Stop right there. You're in an upset feeling. You're not in gratitude, you're in an upset feeling. There's nothing in the future. There's absolutely nothing in the future. There's only this moment right now. And right now you're whole and you're innocent. And when you're aware of your wholeness and innocence, you don't want anything to change. You just know that the change is occurring. Change is what's going on in the field. It's constantly changing. That's what it's doing. So the changes that you seem to see, irrespective of what you seem to want, they're all just manifesting on their own. They're actually all the changes coming on their own. And it's already known by you could say God, the universe, whatever you want to say, what you want in the field, even what you want in the field. Whatever it is, it could be a better body, whatever it is, it's fine. It's just it, it's not in the future. It's not coming in the future, it's right now because the reason you think you want that thing is because you seem to be lacking peace right now. So if you recognize all I want is peace, and you let yourself feel the peace right now, all the things that even the things you seem to want in the field of experience, they start manifesting on their own. Okay. I'm speaking from experience. Yes, I live a blessed and glorious life. I don't have to earn anything. I don't I don't get a sense that anything is ever, ever, ever going wrong. Okay? Even if I hear myself say, oh shit, I know that's not even true. I know I'm kidding. I'm just kidding. Right? Even if it's like, oh, I wish that didn't. I wish it was like this or I wish it was like this. Behind the speaking that's coming out of my mouth, I know I fucking love it, how it is, because of what it's giving me. It's giving me exactly what I need. That is the interdependence, and that includes all experience, that includes everything, even like the doctor just gave you a diagnosis that says you got diabetes or cancer or something like that. It's kind of like they're a puppet of yours and you're having them speak to you like this, telling you you got this now. It's all the most beneficial, maximally beneficial, and as gentle as it could possibly be, so that you can achieve your one goal, which is to fully remember your truth and yourself in wholeness and in innocence. That's why everything is occurring. You've heard the saying before. Again, it's kind of cliche because people forget this when they fall out of gratitude. Everything is happening for you, not to you, okay? So, what I'm sharing with you is a practical way to apply this. It has to be applied in all circumstances. And again, don't shame yourself because you might suck at this when you start. You have actually trained your mind to be really bad at this, okay? Uh, you can be really good at it too, but you just have to start. And you know,

Annoyance Projection And Finding Innocence

SPEAKER_00 27:55

you you notice that, okay, I I'm not doing like let's say I'm not doing that right now. I'm beside myself, feeling like this person should die because they're uh ruining my life. That's a very common thing. Uh, any kind of any kind of irritation, let's say you're annoyed with the person, even if you think, you know, maybe you think you're annoyed with my voice right now, you know, you're annoyed with the person. That is just the same as murder. It actually is. It it's it projects murderous manifestations, and that's the ultimate for the ego to make you think that you got rid of that thought that I'm annoyed by putting it on someone else, let's say their voice is annoying. Okay, so that's that's hiding something within yourself that you don't want to see, because what the ego trains you to believe is that when you project it outward, you got rid of it. And so there's this resistance to looking at what's in our own mind. Why do I want that person to be annoying, for instance? Why do I really want that person to be annoying? Because it because that's a decision that you're making. Okay, so it's like you can have that experience that thank you, you can have that experience that someone is annoying, and you could have a great time with that experience. Oh, think like that person is annoying. This is fucking awesome, you know, and then you just experience that, and you get to see that whether you think something is something you don't like or you do like, they are equal. Why? Because it's just information that's coming in, and when you will embrace yourself, liking and not liking equally, the things that you do like will be automatically manifesting more than the things that you don't like. Why? Because they resonate with your joy, and when you're saying uh and you're and you're being in I enjoy what I enjoy not liking as equally as I've enjoy liking, you're automatically manifesting what you like more because it resonates with your joy. That's just an automatic thing. But the ego would say, you gotta know what you don't like and focus on what you don't like and try to change the thing that you don't like. It's not like that at all. It's totally way more relaxed than that. Look for the innocence whenever whenever you have perception, look for the innocence. What you seek, you will find. Once we take on this thought of separation, we seek, we have to seek. We don't have a choice, but we do have a choice in what we seek. So if we seek only innocence in the whole perception, in everyone, in every circumstance, we're gonna see it in ourselves, we're gonna know our wholeness, and we're gonna be uh, even apparently in the world of illusion, living a very blessed life where there are no problems because we're aware that all of our problems have been solved, they don't even exist. So,

Closing Thanks And Where To Connect

SPEAKER_00 30:55

yeah, have a great night, everyone. I love you.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yay. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. Please visit hopejohnson.org for a whole bunch more content, ways to connect with me, and join me on some of my live broadcasts. I love you.