Boundaries, Intimacy & Oneness | July 13, 2026 | Wisdom Dialogues @ Kehena Beach

“If all is one, why would you need boundaries?” That question sounds holy until you test it against real life: your body gets tired, your time runs out, your nervous system flares, and someone’s “need” starts to feel like pressure. From Hawai‘i, we talk through the difference between love and access, and why A Course in Miracles doesn’t ask us to use metaphysical ideas to override present, practical guidance. For us, that’s the heart of it: love stays universal, but availability is specific, and discernment can be deeply kind.

We share how the ego hijacks spirituality with concepts like “no boundaries,” turning them into self-sacrifice, superiority, or compulsive people pleasing. We unpack manipulation and guilt without making anyone wrong, and we use examples like Edgar Cayce’s depletion to show why “giving” without guidance can quietly become attack on the self. We also look at a clean inner test: does your choice come with gratitude and peace, or does it come with resentment, obligation, fear, and bargaining?

Then the conversation shifts into relationships and intimacy with a real dilemma: a close friendship becomes “couplehood,” but attraction is missing, old trauma gets activated, and honesty is delayed to avoid hurting someone. We break down why “I don’t want to hurt them” can mask control, why attraction can’t be manufactured, and how to speak truth without blaming bodies, diagnosing the other person, or trying to manage their reaction. The goal isn’t a perfect script, it’s integrity, consent, and communication that lets the form change without panic.

If you’ve ever confused forgiveness with tolerating what isn’t aligned, or confused spirituality with being endlessly available, this will reset your compass. Subscribe for more, share this with someone navigating boundaries, and leave a review with the hardest “loving no” you’re learning to say.

Transcript

Welcome And Today’s Focus

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Wisdom Dialogues with Hope Johnson coming to you from Kehenna Beach Estates on the beautiful big island of Hawaii. Yay, everyone. Woohoo! Ah okay, so something came up today that was really fun for me, and it was about boundaries. That's gonna be the first topic. It's about boundaries. So I made a comment after a friend, I believe she might have been complimenting me or telling me, wow, you're really doing a lot and stuff like that. Because I've been doing, I've been joining with my friends every day from 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. for block therapy, and it's been so much fun. And then also doing three talks a week and studying for two of them, right? Recently. And she mentioned something like that. And and I am and I go, I still have my boundaries though, you know, and that's just like that just came out. And when she heard that, she was like surprised. She's like, wait a minute, if all is one, then why would you need any boundaries? And it's like, I hear you because I

All Is One Level Confusion

SPEAKER_01 1:18

have also been in that kind of mindset before, where you know, if all if everything is one, then what would you need any boundaries about? And this is really this is exactly what we were going over in chapter two when Christ was talking about level confusion. Okay. So it's the idea that since we're all one, that you shouldn't have, well, you shouldn't have boundaries for one. But you know, if you really take that idea and look at it in different ways, it's like you shouldn't have the need to eat any food either, or get any sleep or or or wash your clothes or anything, you know, you shouldn't need any, you shouldn't need any of those things. And, you know, what he's saying is that's level confusion. Because while you are perceiving yourself as being in the world, you have needs. You know, one of them seems to be money, okay? That seems to be one of the needs as well. Water, all these different kinds of needs. So the idea that that you know you wouldn't have boundaries because because, you know, truly there's no separation. The separation never happened. And that was one of the things we were talking about today. She's like, well, if the separation never happened, then why would anyone need any boundaries? And I go, well, that's a statement, you know, that's a statement of truth that the separation never happened. And yet it doesn't mean that within the dream, we should pretend that bodies have no limits. Because in the dream, bodies have limits, you know, you cannot be relating with everyone and doing everything that everyone wants you to do, even you know, in a dream, even if you're like completely enlightened in a dream, you're not relating with everyone in the same way. Okay. It's not like it's not like the relationships that all relationships can serve the same function in the dream. They serve the same function for the Holy Spirit's purposes, but it's not like every person should be given equal access to you, to your home, to your stuff, all that kinds of kinds of things. And you know, I know because I've actually practiced that. I'm like, okay, so since we're all one, then I shouldn't have any boundaries. I'm just not gonna have any boundaries. I'm just gonna say yes to everyone, and I'm gonna do, I'm just not gonna, I'm not gonna have any kind of idea about how things should go or anything like that.

Boundaries Without Making Guilt

SPEAKER_01 3:49

So a boundary can say, can also say, I don't, I don't believe you're guilty, and I'm not available for this. You know, it's not like a boundary needs to be used to make a person guilty. And I think that maybe what my friend was reacting to is that when the ego hijacks it, the boundary is actually used to make another person guilty. Like, hey, you're doing this to me. You know, it's not something like that, it doesn't have to mean that. So the Holy Spirit isn't ask asking us to deny the level which we presently believe we are in, and we do believe we are in this level, that's why we perceive bodies everywhere, okay? But but what Christ was saying in chapter two, especially, is that the Holy Spirit uses the level for healing, so it's not about denying that we have these apparent limitations coming up, and a boundary doesn't have to mean anyone is bad, dangerous, unworthy, separate from me, even. It doesn't need to mean that. And really, what it comes down to is listening to the Holy Spirit, you

Edgar Cayce And Burnout

SPEAKER_01 5:08

know. Uh also, also, one of the things we talked about was Edgar Casey, which we talked about in the last ACIM deep dive, you know. Basically, what Christ was referring to with Edgar Casey, and if you want to read it, it's in the complete annotated edition of A Course in Miracles. It's Cameo 15, okay. And basically, he was saying that Edgar Casey was giving of himself so much that he was depleting himself. So he was answering everyone's request. Anyone who needed him to channel for them, he would. And each time he went into a channeling phase or uh session, let's say, it would be using his resources in the world, his bodily resources in the world. And if he wasn't listening to the Holy Spirit, he would come out feeling depleted. Well, he just kept on overriding that, and he actually ended up passing away early for a person in his 50s at some point, like around my age, you know, like that's a little early. Because he's not listening to the Holy Spirit, he wasn't using that boundary, thinking that that would be attack to use the boundary. But what Jesus was saying was it's the opposite of that. He was actually teaching sacrifice, and when you're teaching sacrifice, that's attack. Okay, all attack is attack on the form. So sometimes, you know, distance, even distance, even saying, you know what, this relating isn't working for me right now, and not being in that particular relationship, that could be the most loving form available. You know, it really depends on the situation and how the Holy Spirit is guiding at that time because the very same exact action can look exactly the same and serve a totally different purpose. Okay. So it doesn't mean that you have to continue to give people access. You have to can it may be continuing to perpetuate grievance in that way, it may be perpetuating dependency or manipulation or dishonesty or specialness,

Manipulation Guilt And Taking Space

SPEAKER_01 7:20

right? Self-abandonment, you know. I noticed that with myself, you know, you know, with one of my friends, maybe it was last year sometime, you know, I did not feel like talking to him at the time. I said, no, I don't want to. And then he gave me a really big long text, and the text, I just could feel it. It felt like it was very manipulative, right? And then I so then I I put the text into chat GPT, and I'm like, I'm getting a sense here that there's a lot of manipulation going on. So then it just lists out like six or seven different ways that manipulation is happening in one text, right? And so then I was like, I'm just gonna take a break from this relating. And I noticed that there's a tendency to feel guilty for taking a break in the relating. And that's what my friend was also, you know, he wasn't doing it on purpose, he didn't know that he was, but you know, he could pick up on that and use that. And that's why the manipulation was there to make me feel guilty and talk to him, anyways, even though I was getting the sense, no, this doesn't feel in alignment right now. This doesn't feel congruent right now, you know. So then it was really, it was really sweet. I I go, just so you know, there was there was these different ways that manipulation was happening in that text. I go, you're not wrong for it or anything. It's just time for us to take a break right now, and you know, and then he saw it. He goes, Oh my goodness. He goes, Oh wow. He's he's like, Yeah, you're right. Let's take a break right now, you know. And it's like you don't make a person wrong, but you know, you notice the relating isn't being used for the Holy Spirit's purpose right now to keep it going on right now, it's like we're we're making a space for for manipulation to occur right here. And you know, it's listening and not going past that. I notice when I've when I've just barreled past that because of feeling guilty, and look, guilt is always a thing. If some of you're doing something out of guilt, you're not listening to the Holy Spirit, okay? And it's and it's not like the Holy Spirit has a set of rules for you. You should do this and you shouldn't do this. It's all in the moment, okay? So we want to have we want to have loving relationships with one another. That's really the whole purpose of a Course in Miracles is to show us how to have harmonious relationships, teaching us how to have harmony with one another. And sometimes that actually means taking space. Sometimes that actually means denying access. Okay. So it doesn't mean someone's excluded from love. That's not what it means. Boundaries do not mean that. Sure, that could get hijacked by the ego, and people could be putting up boundaries, and really they're using it to exclude someone. And that could go back and forth because it's a mental thing. Like I notice in my own self, like sometimes I'll be listening to the ego and I could feel it, and I'll just switch over to the Holy Spirit. When you switch to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit guides you to be in gratitude for your brother all the time, no matter what it is that you're expressing, even if you're expressing a boundary. Okay. So so it doesn't mean not excluding anyone from love does not mean that you have to invite everyone into every expression of your life either.

unknown 10:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

So you can recognize someone as your brother, and that's really the point to recognize someone as your brother while declining to live with them, while declining to travel with them or confide in them or have sex with them for that matter. Right? It's like it's kind of like it reminds me of speaking of no boundaries, you know, the cult I grew up in. If someone wanted to have sex with you, you were just supposed to. That would be a really good expression of no boundaries. Hey, I wanna, okay. Right? It doesn't mean you have to employ them, for instance. It doesn't have to mean you have to lend someone money or even remain in any conversation, right? It's like if you listen to the Holy Spirit, you can see when things are being used for attack and stop participating in those things. One way of one way of saying what that is, it's boundaries, okay? So love is universal, but access is specific. That's specifically guided, right? Conclude confusing those two make love seem like it's compulsory, oblig obligatory availability, right? Like you're obligated to be available. That's how Edgar Casey took it. It was as if love meant he was obligated to be available even when he felt depleted physically. Okay, so the separation never happened, but we still accept correction within

Metaphysics Versus Daily Guidance

SPEAKER_01 12:31

the dream. So, of course, in miracles isn't teach us teaching us to use a metaphysical truth to override practical moment-to-moment guidance. Because that's really that's using the ego to take a concept and go, okay, right, this this applies everywhere. Christine said across the board. Yeah, we could just as easily say the body isn't real, so it doesn't matter whether I beat it. Right, death isn't real, so I could just walk into traffic. I should just start jumping off roofs now, you know. So, or there's there's no world, so commitment. What about commitments too? You say you're gonna be somewhere on time, there's no time, right? You're gonna be somewhere. I'm I I find myself showing up every morning, every single morning, apparently. I'm even surprising myself. It's been two months every morning. I've been showing up at eight in the morning. No, not even late. Yeah, I'm there every morning at eight o'clock in the morning down the street, right? Even if I wake up at 7:40, I'm there at eight.

unknown 13:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Right. So it's like saying there's no world. So my commitments, communication, consent, for instance, doesn't matter. Right? It's just one way the ego hijacks these concepts. And you know, another thing I shared with my friend today was, you know,

Irritation As A Forgiveness Cue

SPEAKER_01 14:01

one one way that that the ego does this to us is makes us irked. Because you know, when she heard me say that, she got irked. It was like, oh, like that. I go, look, it's so easy for the ego to point out how other people are doing it wrong, right? But the whole thing, what it comes down to is your peace. Can you be at peace with them, you know? Because one of the things she was she was saying is she sees so many people using boundaries in the wrong way, you know, and I could see that too, sure, sure. You know, it's a kind of a newer thing because before, like if you look back to the 50s, like women didn't have boundaries, right? They were just doing everything for everyone, right? So then they had like, you know, there's a transition period where people are gonna be using boundaries in a fucked up way. That's just how it is, you know. There's this transition period, but you know, there's this sense that she's bringing up that's going, it's not collapsing time though, it's extending time. It's go, it's not it. Okay, well, here's how you collapse time. You notice when you're getting repulsed or irked at something that someone else is doing. Is it making you go?

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Is it making you do a face like that? I don't even know how I look doing that. But apparently it's funny. Yeah, I looked irked good. Okay, that was the point.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Okay, so so yeah, so so when you're when you're irked like that, you're taken out of your peace. Someone else didn't take you out of your peak, your peace, of course. Their boundary, their their boundary that looked like it was an attack to you didn't take you out of your peace. But this is where the loving comes in, like loving your brother comes in and having gratitude comes in. If you really want to collapse time, you want to use that as a forgiveness opportunity rather than an opportunity to correct your brother, right? Or to condemn your brother in your mind. Instead of condemning your brother in your mind, look at all of the behavior as being neutral. It's just neutral. See, that's how I look at it for myself. If I'm not looking at something like I could see you guys, you guys hear me talk about it all the time. I'll go on Facebook and I'll be like, oh my goodness, oh my goodness, oh my goodness. But you know, it's the getting irked part. Like if I feel like I want to condemn someone, or I feel like I want to teach someone, or I feel like I want to do something to someone like that, or I feel like they're ruining something, right? Like they're making, they're the ones that are responsible for time not being collapsed. No, you know, Christ said, How many people does it take to see through the illusion? One, it's you, it's just you. So they're not extending the time for you, and they're not collapsing the time for you. It's actually a reflection. So that's not awakening to be to be believing that you shouldn't have, let's say, boundaries, money, you know, people renounce money to communication, stuff like that. That's not awakening, that's actually denial and level confusion. That's actually it's a it's a wrong form of denial, what Christ would say, and you know, what's actually written in the Course in Miracles, too. So the Holy Spirit is always meeting us where we believe we are, and we all believe that we are in separation. That's why we're getting this perception. The Holy Spirit is meet is meeting us right where we believe we are, and he's teaching us how to use these circumstances differently. Okay, so it's like a door may be open under his guard. Our door to our house, for instance, may be open under his guidance, and it may actually be closed under his guidance as well. Because what we're learning is how to see things differently, not to act like this in this separate illusion. There's it's it's limitless. It's not limitless, it's limited. That's how it is, that's how the illusion is formed. So the form of it never determines whether the decision is loving, it's the purpose of it that does. It's like, how are we using it? What are we using it for? So, in this way, a boundary can prevent sacrifice. We are just going over atonement without sacrifice. A boundary often is preventing sacrifice, that's what it's doing. And the ego would present self-sacrifice as if it's spirituality. So the ego loves this no boundaries thing that you want to have because it's totally a situation where here, you know, you should be sacrificing yourself for spirituality. Okay. It's like I should always say yes, I should never disappoint anyone. If someone's disappointed in me, then I've failed. That's the ego's way, right? Don't be afraid of disappointing people. That's what we were just going over in atonement without sacrifice, too. So don't be afraid of disappointing someone. The ego would say, I should remain available to everyone because we're one, right? The ego's just gonna hijack these taught these concepts that we're being taught through, of course, in miracles. It's like I should be tolerating things that feel dishonest or unloving so I don't appear separate. It's like, no, I'm not going for that, right? I was sharing with you guys before I used to have no boundaries on Facebook. Next thing I know, the comment section is completely hijacked by all the people that want to argue with what I'm taught. And I'm and I mean no, I'm sharing a high spiritual concept there, and I got a bunch of arguments. All I've got left is arguments because they're loud and they're taking up the whole comment section, right? So I learned boundaries like that. That was where I learned boundaries. That was in 2019, and you know, in other ways too. There were things going on in my home, you know, there, and then I told Tony recently, I was like, Man, I'm a different chick now. I would not fucking put up with that stuff. He's like, good, I'm glad you wouldn't. You know, I I was going through, I was going through a thing where I was I was believing that I should be boundaryless because we're all one. And I was practicing that again. There's nothing wrong with any of these different roads that we go down. You know, when I went down that road, I got to see for myself what that was doing and how that panned out for me, right? So then boundaries

Discernment Without Punishment

SPEAKER_01 20:53

came back again. It's and and you know, more listening. That's really what we're learning big time here is more listening to the Holy Spirit rather than leading to our own understanding about what these concepts concepts means mean and trying to apply them across the board to everything. So forgiving, forgiveness doesn't also require continuing to participate in anything. You could fire a person. I I fired my daughter, which is I thought a great decision. It was like this idea, and it's like, you know, she would be on board too with the idea that you shouldn't be firing your daughter, right? So then it's like it just keeps on it, it keeps on being this participation where it's like codependency where you're supporting you're supporting a cocaine habit by continuing to pay your daughter and have her not show up for work and continue to pay her, anyways, right? Did that for a while. How that went, you know, and of course, when the firing came up, it's like, How could you do this? This to me, and I go, You're good, you're you're awesome, you know. You're gonna you're gonna see you're totally taken care of, you're good, you know. So forgiveness really means that I'm I'm withdrawing the meaning the ego is assigning to things. Doesn't mean that it doesn't mean that I should act a certain way. It's not like that. Doesn't mean that I should not have any boundaries, for instance. It doesn't mean I have to repeat that same situation again or hold on to any situation that's been going on. So we can forgive someone and not collaborate with them, right? And really, you know, forgive someone. I don't even look at it like that anymore. Forgive someone because they don't need forgiveness. You get what you're forgiving is a thought that's a misguided thought, really. The person themselves, they don't really need forgiveness, they're already holy. It's just you're forgiving a thought that's uh that's misguided about the situation or about the person. It's like as if they're taking something from you, let's say that's what would be forgiven. The idea that they can take something from you. Okay, you can be released of a grievance and still decline an indep an invitation to hang out with someone, for instance.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Yes, so so it's not the behavior, it's thought the problem that's behind it. So, like the behavior happens, but then like what's the next thing that you're denying me into?

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

The thought about it, is that it?

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Yes, it's because it's your thought. So Christine's question is very good. She's like, She's like, What are we forgiving? Because there's this behavior, you know. Let's say, let's let's say someone's talking mean to you. Someone was expressing that today, that someone talks so mean to her, it feels like they're abusing her. Okay. So she's saying it's not the behavior that you forgive the behavior, let the behavior be the behavior. That's what's arising. And, you know, you're saying what I thought happened didn't happen. That's the separation. That is actually the separation itself that didn't happen. So, what that means is that whatever their behavior is, it cannot affect you. It's not affecting you, but their behavior is your behavior, is their behavior in the scheme of things. And so the response to that should also correlate with that, right? So let's say, like my friend is saying that someone's uh disrespecting her and and abusing her in her own house, right? The way they're talking to her is abusing her in her own house. So you're what you're forgiving is it's as if they can actually abuse you, right? So you're forgiving that idea that they can actually abuse you. The separation didn't happen, so it can't actually be like that. Do I like the way they're talking to me? They're talking to me like this. It seems like it's abusive, right? They're talking, they're raising their voice, they seem to be saying things that are disparaging toward me and stuff like that. So the response can then follow effectively. I'd like you to move out of my house. Doesn't mean you're a bad person or anything like that. Let's make arrangements for you to move out of my house. And you know, it's like you might have to come to a good place first because you're probably triggered when you're thinking all those things, but that's where the forgiveness comes in so that the so that that trigger calms down and you can communicate effectively and calmly and lovingly. See, and you can communicate exactly what it is. Another thing the friend asked me, you know, she was she was saying, I don't want you to talk to me like that. You know, she was like, I don't want you to talk to me like that. And you know, the way she was saying, I don't want you to talk to me like that, it's like as if she's being attacked. So it's not the words themselves, it's actually the feeling when you haven't had forgiveness, when you're not looking at all experiences as being a blessing, because it's giving you an opportunity to see what you're holding against yourself. And that's where you know communication comes in really nicely. Like for me, when I experience someone talking to me in a way, I won't even say I don't want you to talk to me like that. I'll say thank you because it doesn't hit me like that. It really doesn't hit me like that. It's more like thank you, thank you for letting me know. That doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna come back and still keep on hanging out with me, talking to me like that. It's just kind of like, thank you for letting me know. I don't want to try to manage how they're talking, I want them to talk freely, naturally, the way they would talk, and then let the boundaries be the boundaries, you know, instead of trying to manage them and go, hey, I want you to talk to me like this, so then I don't have to use my boundaries with you or something. No, I want you to be natural and it's and it's not hurting anyone. I don't look at it as hurtful to use the boundaries either, you know. I look at it as a loving thing because again, it eliminates that use of a relationship like for manipulation, self-abandonment, all that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

And it's got to come across in the right tone. So you've got to be part of that.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Yeah, Christina is saying it's got to come across in the right tone. And I, you know, again, let yourself be natural, but look at where the forgiveness is going to. If the forgiveness is going to any idea that they could harm you in any way, that's what it's going to.

unknown 27:54

There's no need.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah, there's no, there's no harmful thing, it's just an opportunity. And you know, the boundary coming in is really giving you this opportunity to see that it's okay. It's okay. That they they want to act like that, they want to present like that, and that's okay. That's perfect for them on their path. The Holy Spirit has them, and you can decline to engage with that too. So forgiveness removes this sense that you want to punish them. It does not remove discernment, though. The punishment comes out of it, and that's what I mean, where I've seen my mind go back and forth. And you know, without judgment, you can actually watch this stuff and you can know which teacher you want to choose more and more and more. So it's not a matter of trying to fake it, right? Notice when the ego is coming in, the ego wants to punish. That's all. So when you go back to gratitude, and we'll get on that tomorrow. Tomorrow's a another ACIM lesson, and it's love is the way I walk in gratitude. So it fits this really perfectly. When you're in gratitude for them, then there's just discernment without making the boundary that isn't making them wrong. It's like, look, here's what's coming up. Here's what we're really we're making this together. That's what I related to my friend. It's like, this is what we're making right now. So that's why I'm that's why I'm getting the sense that this needs a break. So guidance can look very different too for different people. It's not that it comes out to be like some kind of universal rule with the guidance. And you know, the the Holy Spirit could guide one person to stay in a certain situation. I know in the situation when I was with my husband, when I was living with my husband, I would ask for years. I would ask the Holy Spirit, like, what am I still doing in this dynamic, in this relationship the way it was, you know, and the Holy Spirit would tell me very clearly, too, that you have more lessons to learn here. Stay. Stay here. And and you know, really clearly, like, if you leave this situation right now, you're actually going to have to, you're gonna have to go through more time. It's gonna take you more time because you're gonna have to come back to this. It needs to come back around. Yes, exactly. So one person may be guided to stay, another person may be guided to leave their marriage, they may be guided to leave their situation. One person may be guided to speak, and another one silent. And the moments could be different. It could be the same person in different moments. You might be uh you might be guided to offer help, you might be guided to stop rescuing. You know, it could be it could be different all the time. There's just no rules about this, right? This is why we're given a teacher rather than a rigid code of conduct, of conduct. We're actually just given a teacher. We do not have this code of conduct thing. This comes from the Christian culture, Christian conditioning. That's really what where it comes from. So people will apply that to a course in miracles and say this is giving us a code of conduct. No, it's not. No, it's not. It's really just giving you your teacher. So the the question really isn't do spiritual people have boundaries? It's more like, what is this decision for? Whose purpose does it serve? Do you have punishment in your mind? That's really what it comes to. Is this boundary because you have punishment in your mind? Or are you grateful to your brother? Okay, no boundaries, the idea of no boundaries,

No Boundaries As Spiritual Ego

SPEAKER_01 31:46

and I know this because I'm speaking from experience, that actually becomes a special identity. I know that everything's one, so I have no boundaries. That's why you would find yourself getting triggered by other people expressing a boundary and being surprised. Like, how can someone like Hope, who's that well learned or whatever the idea about me is, have boundaries? So it's like you know, a spiritual ego would say, I have no boundaries because I know separation is not real. So I have no boundaries, which is also bullshit. Everyone's got boundaries. You can say you don't have boundaries, but you fucking do all the time. You know, you're actually expressing them all the time and saying it's something else, even when you're trying not to have boundaries. Like I had very minimal boundaries, but there were still boundaries, you know. It just it's you know, it's anything. People at people ask you, you know, do you want to do this? No, that's a boundary. Can I come over and do this? Not today. That's a boundary. You can come over at three o'clock, that's a boundary. You can come over at three o'clock, but not noon, right? That's a boundary. I won't be ready for for you for 15 minutes. That's a boundary. I told Christine that yesterday. She didn't even see the message. Came over, anyways. She was after 15 minutes, anyways. Right, the spirit was guiding her, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

It wouldn't have mattered either way.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

And then there's the idea, you know, one one idea that came up from my friend was when she hears the word boundaries, then it's something that you have to defend. And it's like, no, that doesn't mean that, you know, because it sounds like war to people, because it's like, and now I have to defend my boundaries. Yes, I know I've been in that mindset before as well. And I've been like very boundaried, and then I've been to the very opposite of that, and then I just start listening to the Holy Spirit, and sometimes there's boundaries and sometimes there's not. So the identity, the identity of no boundaries may allow a person to temporarily feel like they're more evolved than other people, okay? More loving, more open, more surrendered, more Christ-like than other people. Okay. But then at the same time, if you're getting triggered or irked by other people using boundaries, that's a sign that you have a forgiveness opportunity on your hands. That's what that is. It's always a sign. If you think that other people are extending time instead of collapsing time, that's basically concern, like what we were talking about last week. Okay. So if by being boundaryless requires you to dismiss your own discomfort, that's one of them. Are you dismissing your own discomfort because you are you are not wanting to have boundaries? Are you enabling dysfunction? That's another one, making your body available against your against your willingness, right? Then that idea is not being used to undo separation, it's actually reinforcing conflict. So anything that produces resentment, exhaustion, fear, obligation, superiority, or any kind of bargaining that needs to be questioned. Okay, the Holy Spirit does not violate anyone's willingness. That's the ego. The Holy Spirit just invites. So any relationship that's based on pressure, guilt, coercion, and that's what I felt. I felt the pressure, the guilt, the coercion that that the person should have compulsory uh access to me, that's not really demonstrating oneness. And I was playing in that into that for a little while, and it didn't result in harmony or happiness in my being. That's what I noticed. So eventually a boundary had to come, and that was a real good learning opportunity for me, you know, because I felt deep love for this person, but the relationship changed. And when the relationship changed, you know, it became based on all these things that weren't really serving the Holy Spirit's function, and the Holy Spirit wasn't asking me to continue in that relationship. Okay. So it so, really, a relationship like that to stay in a relationship like that is really demonstrating this belief that one person's needs can rightfully override another person's willingness. It's as if so willingness really matters in the classroom. I mean, you can call this a classroom. Consent matters, honesty matters. Okay, it's not because the bodies are real, it doesn't because of that, but these forms can be used to teach non-attack. That's what they're being used for. That's what the Holy Spirit's using these forms for to teach non-attack, and boundaries can be temporary teaching devices, right? It's not it's not the ultimate statement about your relationship, it's just a form that's being used to demonstrate sanity, actually. So a boundary no could remain for an hour, a year, whatever it is, the rest of the body's apparent life. You know, we don't need to make it an eternal thing. It's not like you know, and what I communicated to my friend, that was like last year or something, maybe a little more than a year ago. And we've been in communication communication since then. It's like I'm not saying that this is forever, it's just that right now, this is what the guidance is. And you know, I couldn't tell what the guidance was before because I was overriding it with a concept, you know, it was as if this person needs me. This person needs me, so I have to override my willingness. That's self-importance. Sacrifice again, yep, you got it. So it's like following present guidance without turning that boundary into a grievance, without turning it into a weapon, okay. So a boundary, you might say, can be guided by the Holy Spirit and not be a wall against love. You don't need to be in communication with a person, physical communication. You're always in communication, you're always in communication through love, okay? But you don't need to use this boundary as like a wall against love. It's not saying they did something wrong and now that's why. It's like I saw the relationship manifesting these things. You know, in that case, I saw the relationship manifesting this pressure and manipulation and stuff like that, and refusing to let that continue to serve fear.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Right. Energetically, too. It feels like a push.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Energetically, yes. It feels it feels like a push, yes, exactly. Exactly. So that's that's how you can tell you're using it for punishment when it feels like you're pushing a person away, like that. It doesn't need to feel like that, and that's where you get the forgiveness because your interpretation of the situation is wrong when you're believing that they're doing something wrong or bad or something like that. It's not like that, it's just that the whole relationship is being used for something that's based in attack, so then the relationship can have a boundary, all right? So you can close the door to the relationship without closing your heart, right? So a useful question might be am I removing the boundary because love is guiding me, or because the ego is afraid of appearing unloving? See, and the reverse too. Am I establishing a boundary to preserve peace and honesty, or am I doing it to punish or control or prove that someone's wrong or guilty? See, you can that's what I mean. You can look upon the behavior and say, oh, that's what's going on. Right? And I even I you know, I even communicated to my friend, I know you're not meaning to do this, it's not like that. The dynamic has just gone like this, and it's good that we take a break. So the form of anything, a boundary or removing a boundary can look identical. But the teacher that you're listening to and the purpose you would give it, that's what makes the difference. So it's not a matter of picking out per certain things and saying, you know, we should or should not do this. Okay, thank you, Akahi. Yes, I like these earrings too, those are fun. All right. That's what I wanted to share with everyone about boundaries. Oh, it looks like the Facebook one didn't start.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Okay, that's fun. Well, I will. Let's see. I guess I may have put that on a little bit early.

SPEAKER_03 41:54

Unwanted Facebook boundary.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Yeah, Facebook made a boundary on me there. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Let me see. I'll try starting it again.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Maybe it just maybe I just set it up so early too early, but it's just it's just on connecting. And who knows? It could act, it could have actually started. It could have actually started because sometimes it looks like that and it's not really the case, but sometimes it is. That's why you can't you can't rely on the technology. If you really want to join wisdom dialogues, come over. If that's your priority that you want to join wisdom dialogues, just come over. Zoom usually works pretty good. I can say that one.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

That one's pretty good. Anyways, we'll have a recording.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

So I had a friend write to me today. If anyone has any questions about boundaries, let me know. I think we covered it really well. I've even doing I've even done talks before called boundaries. I know I have. So you guys can look that up too. Ann, would you give me some water? I totally space on having any water over here. Thanks. So a friend of mine wrote to me today. Uh actually, he gave me a recording,

Tech Glitches And How To Join

SPEAKER_01 43:28

and I just have some notes about the recording. He did a five-minute recording, and this is about relationships again. Surprise, surprise. Okay, so he's been in a relationship with his best friend. Okay, and they've been close friends for like a year, talking every day. And probably about six months ago. So they're close friends for about six months, and then six months ago, they began calling themselves

Friend Dilemma Attraction Or Trauma

SPEAKER_01 43:56

a couple. Okay, he's saying he values her company. Companionship very much. He does not want to lose this friendship. And it's especially because he often feels like he's alone and doesn't have that many close relationships. And at the same time, he doesn't feel physical or sexual attraction like he would like to feel in a romantic partnership. In this case, they haven't had sex. They have never had sex. And he once tried to initiate intimacy with her, and he experienced her as being absent, like kind of like emotionally absent to that. So, you know, he's feeling like he wants her to be, he wants someone more attractive, and she's not even interested in sex. And then they're calling themselves a couple. Okay. He's not sure whether his lack of attraction is genuine or whether he's just pulling away because closeness activates old fears for him. He also described the childhood in which his mother overstepped emotional boundaries and he felt like he was trapped. And now he's noticing he's feeling the same kind of thing. Whenever relationships become close or committed, he tends to withdraw. So he's like, is this is this me just withdrawing again because this is my habit? Or is it actually that, or is actually that this lack of attraction is genuine? So he's afraid of hurting his friend. He's afraid she's gonna feel abandoned. He's afraid he's gonna lose his best friend. He's afraid he may not find another partner. Okay. Part of him wishes she would meet someone else and suggests that they return to being friends. So he doesn't have to be the one to make this decision. Okay. This is fun, it's really fun. I know it's good. So he's also wondering whether their apparent attachment patterns are interacting. Her fear of abandonment and his fear of being of being entrapped, like feeling like he's trapped. Okay. And he understands that from a Course in Miracles perspective, trauma doesn't all alter the truth of who everyone is. But he also wants to know how to work with these beliefs and perceptions that still seem to be shaping their relationship. So his most central question is how can he tell whether he's honestly recognizing that this is not the romantic relationship he wants, or whether he's using lack of attraction as a reason to run from intimacy. Okay. And how can he respond with honesty and love without making either of them feel guilty? So this is a fun one. It's rich. So the question is it trauma or lack of attraction? It could be both, could be both. He may genuinely lack romantic or sexual attraction to her, and he may also fear that the relationship, you know, have a fear arise as the relationship is becoming closer and more committed. So he doesn't need to make a perfect diagnosis of this stuff.

Honesty Beats Managing Feelings

SPEAKER_01 47:29

But you know, it's a good idea to become honest about what he's experiencing right now. So one ego trick in something like this is to delay the honesty. Egos always like to delay honesty, it might hurt them, for instance. So I'm not going to be honest. Okay, you don't have to completely understand yourself first, to be honest. Okay. Clarity clarity may actually come through honesty and not before the honesty. So that's not a good reason that you don't feel completely clear that you can't be honest right now. And look at what is the relationship giving to you? Your friend talks to you every day. She wants to spend time with you. She's providing to you for you closeness, companionship, consistency. She's consistently around and also relief from loneliness. Okay. And he's saying he doesn't have many other friends that he can do this with. See, if the relationship is to is totally being run by fear, then you've given it over to the ego. Right?

SPEAKER_02 48:56

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be with someone.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

But the companionship of someone isn't meant to be secured by appearing to offer romantic commitment that you don't really want. Right? That's not how you do it. You don't go, I'm afraid of losing, so I'm gonna pretend like I'm romantically attracted to you when I'm clearly not. Not only that, they're not even having sex. Apparently, she's not attracted to him either. I would ask about that. Hey, are you even attracted to me? I would ask about that one. Okay, another part is he's hoping she'll make the decision for him, right? He says he would be thrilled if she found another man. That was the the word I think in the recording that he sent me. She'd be thrilled if she found another man and suggested that they just return to being friends. So that's that fan, that's a fantasy. That's basically that's a fantasy, and that's revealing something. All right, it would allow because it would allow him to keep the friendship, avoid feeling guilty, avoid disappointing her, avoid being alone, avoid taking responsibility for ending the romantic part of the relationship. So he's hoping the situation will just resolve itself without requiring him to speak up, to speak the truth of what he's feeling. So this is the thing, you know, when you're in you're using a relationship like this, you're just not even communicating what's going on with you. That's using it for the for the ego's purpose, not the Holy Spirit's function. So waiting for her to release you is not the same as choosing honestly. Hoping that she'll do something different is not the same as honestly choosing. So he also is wanting to avoid hurting her. So wanting to avoid hurting her is the reason for concealing this desire that they go back to being friends to avoid his own discomfort. He says repeatedly in the recording, he does not want to hurt her. Okay, so that could sound loving, but are you trying to protect her from pain or are you really protecting yourself? Look at you don't want to see her disappointed, you don't want to feel like you've been a bad person. You know that I don't question that. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe you don't want to lose her affection. You know, you don't want to feel blamed, feeling guilty, feeling lonely, facing your loneliness. So often, and and you know, in this situation, probably I don't want to hurt you really means I don't want to experience myself as someone who's hurt you. You know, don't be afraid of that. It's it's more hurtful, it's more of an attack. It is, you know, honest is never an attack, really. Being honest is not an attack. But it's an attack when you're being dishonest to try to get what you want. So when you're concerned about another person's response, that's kind of like saying love is requiring you to control their response, and that's not the case. You cannot guarantee that she's not gonna feel hurt. She could definitely feel hurt when you tell the truth. You know, I just don't feel like I'm sexually attracted to you. She could definitely feel hurt about that. I just don't, I don't get the sense that I'm sexually attracted to you. It could be gentle, it could be respectful, but see, it's this fear of losing what you think you need from her. That's the part where it's selfish, the selfishness is coming in. You can be respectful about this. You know, I've had a friend tell me before, you know, I just don't really feel like I'm attracted to you in that way. And I was like, oh, okay, great, let's stop doing that part of it. Of course, he was full of shit. He comes back and he's attracted to me the next day. But you know, it's like, it's it's like, yeah, it's you know, people can take that a lot better than trying to use the relationship to make it to acting like you are attracted to them so that you can keep on extracting from them, right? You can be respectful about it for sure. Without attacking or blaming her. You know, one of the things, one of the things about it is he feels like if she would lose 25 pounds, he'd be more attracted to her, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:10

I know, but that's not, he doesn't know that for sure. You know, that's speculation. It really is.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

You don't know that for sure, and he and you know, you don't that that doesn't necessarily need to be said either. You know, it's like being honest about how you feel, you don't have to necessarily say something like that. It could come out, though. I mean, it's not saying anything's right or wrong, but it's like it could come out too when you're being honest, right? But her emotional response to whatever you're sharing with her, that's for her. That's her classroom. So your honesty is your classroom, your honesty or dishonesty, and trying to manage her feelings, that's just a form of control. No need to manage her feelings. But you know, it's not to come to awareness too, the idea that you would be attracted to her if she lost 25 pounds, that's speculation.

Stop Blaming Bodies And Stories

SPEAKER_01 56:25

That's not true. That's why it doesn't need to be said, it's not truly honest. You know, you may not know that in the moment, and it may come out because you don't know that, but probably if you listen to this, you already know that, and it may come out, and in that case, she's gonna be able to deal with that too. You know, I get the sense that I'm attracted to thinner people, it could be I'm attracted to younger people, I get the sense I'm attracted to taller people, anything, it's not really true. We think we have a type, it's not really true. These things are orchestrated, especially when it comes to looks. That is ridiculous, actually. It's really, it's actually an immature way of looking at it. Like I'm attracted to a certain person's looks, and you know, I've said stuff like that before too, and I say it, I'm like, that is not really true. You know, it's not really true. It's like I seem to have preferences. Let's say that. I seem to have preferences, but it's not really true because these things are orchestrated. So staying because you're afraid she will be alone is not con, is not kindness to her. That's not cool. That's not kindness. Okay. Showing up. I've had a friend show up one time and he and he goes, he goes, Yeah, I came up here because I thought you would be really disappointed if I came by your house and didn't come up here. And I go, that is a really shitty reason for you to be here.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

You thought I I don't even want you here for that reason. You thought I would be disappointed if you didn't come up here.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

That's terrible. So he's saying she's not had relationships, she has emotional abandonment trauma and maybe and maybe alone if he leaves. That's not a good reason to be staying with someone. That's not listening to the Holy Spirit, that's listening to the ego because it's it's defining her as something that's diminished. So now you have to sacrifice yourself to make sure she doesn't feel diminished, all right? Yeah, it's all made up. He doesn't really know what's available for her, he doesn't really know what's coming for her. He doesn't know, he doesn't know if he if she really needs him to remain her partner. You know, those needs are again orchestrated, and he doesn't know if she's gonna meet someone else, she could meet someone else tomorrow, and the idea that being single would be harmful for her, too. That's another thing. That's not a good reason to keep interacting with someone like that because you think that it's gonna be harmful to them. It's like there's this belief that she can't handle the truth, that it would make her weak, and you know, that's that's like making her weak in his perception. That's that's unforgiveness to make her weak like that. Like she can't handle the truth.

SPEAKER_03 59:48

Could she be he because it's all projection?

SPEAKER_01 59:51

It's all projection, yes. Uh, yes, white dove asks, can she be he? Yeah, so basically he's making her out to be weak. The weak, the weakness is unseen in his mind. He's not really weak, but it's an it's an idea that he's weak. So he's projecting it outward to make it seem like someone else is weak, and he's the one being strong by staying with her. So he doesn't he's protecting her from something. That's part of it too. I mean, it's great. He's asking all this stuff to me, you know. He's really he's wanting to know, he's not doing anything wrong. He's, you know, he's confused about the situation and wanting to know what's going on. So he can honor her, he can honor her here as being capable of hearing the truth and capable of receiving guidance herself. This is how you would be honoring a brother, a sister in this case. It's all the same. We're all brothers, and you know, we talked about the 20 or 25 pounds that he talked about, and to be careful not to make her body the problem, right? Be careful about that. Because he was he was saying that if she were 20 or 25 pounds lighter and she had a sexier vibe, she doesn't really have a sexy vibe, apparently, she's not into having sex, apparently. He might be attracted to her, right? So it's like your attraction or lack of attraction, that's not a moral issue. You don't have to force desire. That's not saying that. You don't have to force desire, but be careful not to turn your preference into some kind of diagnosis about her. Like it's not that she needs to lose 20 to 25 pounds or get a sex a sexier vibe. It's like you're attracted to her or her or you're not. There's no because you're attracted to her or you're not. That's it. And then he's he's you know, he's making it into a diagnosis of her in the recording, too, saying that she gained the weight to protect herself. Okay, you don't know that, you don't know that she gained the weight. I mean, that's some kind of a that's some kind of spiritual thing where someone gains weight to protect. I've heard that before. Some kind of new age thing. Here's why you gain the weight. Yeah. Yeah, he doesn't, he doesn't really know that her body is the reason that she's not been in a relationship. See, he's projecting that the reason she hasn't been in a relationship before him is because of her body, because she's 20, 25 pounds too heavy. And he doesn't know what her weight really means psychologically. Those are interpretations, those those are the kinds of things that are brought for forgiveness. That's the thing. It's like I want to see this differently, I don't want to make this interpretation mean something. So the honest statement is really simple. I'm not experiencing physical or sexual desire that I want in a romantic relationship. That's it. It's not a there's not a why about it or anything like that. I am not experiencing the physical or sexual desire that I want in a relationship. Easy. It's not because of anything about them, it's not because of their height, it's not because of their weight, it's not because of their smell, it's not because of their age. There's not a because. It's just that this is the experience I'm having. This is not this is not uh physically or sexually desirable to me. This is not what I want for a romantic relationship. I want to feel more physically and physical and sexual desire if I'm gonna have a romantic relationship with someone and I don't feel that with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:09

So that's really telling the truth without making a wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

And then apparently, it seemed like from what I listened to, the five-minute recording that I listened to, it seemed like her response to his sexual initiation was interpreted, just interpreted by him, but not clarified through communication. He should he said she seemed vacant, but it doesn't look like they had a conversation about that. He doesn't really know what was happening for her because he didn't ask, it doesn't seem like, anyways, he didn't ask what was happening for you. She could have been afraid, she could not be interested in him, she could be inexperienced, she could feel disconnected, she could not be attracted to him, she could be unclear about whether she wanted sex that night, right? Maybe she hadn't washed, you know. That's a thing, too. Maybe she thought she was stinky that day, you know. You're like, ask. But it's like the the ego always wants to jump to all these conclusions. She could have been surprised by it. So he's constructed a story about her because she was vacant without actually having a conversation with her about it. Yes, please get back with us next week. We want to know about this, we want to know what's going on here. Thank you. You know, this this mirrors kind of mirrors a situation that I had. You know, the person was telling me repeatedly, I'm too old. I'm just not attracted to someone as old as you. Right. I'm like, okay, well, we don't need to be engaging. That's the case. We don't need to be engaging. I'm I'm fine, you know, we don't need to be engaging like that. And then the next thing you know, he changed his mind. He kept on changing his mind about it. And it wasn't, see, in his mind, he was actually making up a story that I was too old, whatever that story was. And so he was supposed to not be sexually attracted to me, but he was bullshitting himself because he was sexually attracted, and he kept on making moves in that way. And and come and come up with a story again that he's not sexually attracted to me over and over again repeatedly. I was just kind of like, yeah. Okay, well, I'm in. And then the story would come back again. And I was like, okay, I, you know what, I'm not believing the story though, because you're not you're not actually behaving as if you're not attracted to me. Your behavior is showing that you're attracted to me, and your mouth is saying that you're not. So you're you can't understand the relationship through this interpretation you're making, really. You know, you need to ask her how she experiences this couplehood that you're having. I mean, is there going to be some some physical intimacy involved? Right? Maybe you're, you know, that's not for you. You feel you're feeling like that's not for you. You're not you're not interested in having a couple kind of relationship with her. You really value your friendship with her, but you're not really interested in a couple relationship when there's not sexual attraction. And apparently there is sexual attraction for you, otherwise, you wouldn't have been making moves on her. See, you're saying that there's not that there's not, but then you made a move on her. So I don't know why you would be doing that if you're not attracted to her. What did you say? The chase, the chase, the chase. So you guys may be calling yourself a couple too without even establishing what that means to be a couple, right? You may you may just be you're for you were friends, and maybe it appeared that you were a couple because you were friends, right? And you use the word apparently a couple. That's significant too. So it sounds like you may have shifted into couplehood without a conversation about romantic desire, sexual desire, exclusive, exclusivity, commitment, expectations, like your long-term intentions. Maybe both of you are participating in a different version of the relationship. Maybe she's just like, okay, we're friends, we're really good friends, and now we're exclusive friends. I don't know. You know, maybe she just doesn't want to have any more friends except you. Let's just talk honestly with each other. Okay, and then there's the trauma point.

Trauma Patterns Without Denial

SPEAKER_01 1:09:46

He was talking about trauma, that they both have trauma. So trauma isn't the real truth, but it can organize your perception. So, so what that means is from ACIM perspective, the past is not occurring now and cannot change what you are. But if you believe that that closeness means loss of freedom, this is common for guys, too, I notice. This close this closeness with someone means loss of freedom, being captive emotionally, right? That belief would be affecting how you're interpreting present intimacy. So just saying trauma is not real doesn't mean that you would deny the pattern that this trauma is coming up. Okay. It just means recognizing that the past is not really the cause. The past is not the cause of your present experience, okay? But the past interpretation, the interpretation you're making of the past is causing your present experience. So the past isn't causing your present experience, but your interpretation of the past is. Yeah, I can see why commitments would mean commitment would mean you're trapped if you're not communicating. If someone needs me, I become responsible for them. If I disappoint someone, I've harmed them. Right? And being distant is how I can be I can be free. That's a common one too. I've experienced that. If I stay distant, then I'm free.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:37

So all those beliefs, those all could be offered to the Holy Spirit because they're not true.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:47

So to heal your fear of intimacy doesn't mean you force yourself to remain in any relationships. So one of the thoughts that he's talking about is if I leave, I'm running away from intimacy. That's not it. Staying isn't automatically healing that. You could remain for other reasons. You could remain because you're afraid of loneliness. You said that yourself. You could remain because you're afraid of you're you're afraid of guilt, you're afraid of losing a friendship. You don't have very many friendships, you said you're afraid no one else will show up. You said that too. That is not a reason to stay in a relationship. These are not reasons to stay in a relationship. Fear is not a reason. Your fear of hurting her. And leaving isn't automatically leaving isn't automatically honest. You could also use her her weight as a rationalization, you know, for you to escape loneliness and escape closeness. You know, it's like it's like I don't want to be close to you because of your weight. And then you could also use her weight as a reason why she wouldn't leave you. See how you could use it on one hand to escape loneliness. You're like, this is a good partner for me because they're heavy, so they're not gonna find anyone else. That's bullshit. I just look around Puna. You know, yesterday I was out there, I was out there at a Sunday fun day, and I think I saw two or three couple couples where the guy was like completely ripped, like really good shape, really like, and he's got a huge chick, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

He's my dub saw that too. So that's not gonna work. She's like, shh, don't say I saw that. I don't see these things.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:12

So good.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:14

Oh my goodness. That is definitely a bullshit interpretation. Plenty of plenty of guys like heavy chicks. I see that all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:28

You know, I I know there's this one guy on Facebook, and he's constantly, he's like a really good looking guy, you know, and he's like and he's constantly talking about how, yeah, women who are in good shape, nope, don't want them. I want a woman with a belly, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

People have all kinds of different tastes. You can't say that's the reason.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:56

So the question is really, is this decision arising from honesty and peace or avoidance and fear? Really, that's the question. Are you are you doing it out of fear? Is really the thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:10

If it's so much trouble, blah blah blah blah blah thinking it and thinking it, then you're doing it out of fear.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:16

Yes. Yeah, if you're if you're ruminating a lot, it's all this trouble, you know, you could just be with her in the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just be with her, and yeah, just be with her in the moment. If you don't feel if you don't feel like you're attracted to her and the thing about being a couple with her isn't the isn't isn't for you, then just communicate that honestly. And you know, just communicating that that actually, you know, it brings about the clarity for you. Like I said earlier, that'll bring about the clarity for you. This is how I feel. I just want to communicate honestly with you. This is how I feel. Even if something comes out about the weight or anything like that, just being honest with each other and you know, recognizing I'm not trying to hurt you. You might even say, I'm not trying to hurt you. I really I actually feel afraid of hurting you. You know, you could say what your fears are too. I feel afraid of hurting you, but I'm feeling this right now. Talk about it. So healing your fear of intimacy also doesn't mean that you have to have unlimited closeness. That's not what that means. You're saying you want to become comfortable with people who want to see you all the time. So that's that's a thing, you know. People get uncomfortable when people want to see them all the time. But healing doesn't really mean that you have to become someone who wants constant contact. Maybe you don't want to constantly be around someone all the time. You don't have to do that. You may prefer spaciousness. I do. I like spaciousness. You know, you may need some periods of solitude. Maybe you don't want daily communication forever. It's not that's not a sign that you've healed yourself, that you have daily communication or daily closeness all the time. And that's not having those preferences isn't necessarily describing trauma. So healing means you can you communicate, you can recognize your limits without withdrawing, without blaming, without disappearing, without making the other person guilty, without making them, without making them vulnerable. Right? What I mean by making them vulnerable is like this fear of hurting someone. So freedom doesn't require distance either. That's a that's an that's a misinterpretation. Freedom doesn't require distance, but that doesn't mean that you have to offer limited unlimited access either. You know, we've associated, often we're associating freedom with distance. That's not it. You can have freedom and closeness too, but you don't have to prove that you don't have to prove that by offering unlimited access when you'd rather have spaciousness either. It's just this avoidance. A lot of times people think avoidance is freedom. You don't have to be an avoidance, it's just it's just communicating. I like to have spaciousness if that's the case. You don't have to be talking to someone every day. And you could be and still be free. You could be living with someone and communicating with them every single day, sleeping together, doing everything together, working together, and still have freedom. The spaciousness does is not what demonstrates freedom. And the being together all the time isn't what demonstrates lack of freedom. That's in your mind, really.

Need Versus Choice In Love

SPEAKER_01 1:19:31

So boundaries come back into this again. Boundaries and withdrawing aren't the same thing. The boundary says, This is what I'm genuinely available for, right? Withdrawal says I'm gonna disappear rather than risk an honest encounter, or I'm just gonna be dishonest with her because I'm afraid. So a boundary is something that's communicated. Withdrawal leaves the other person to interpret that to interpret your absence, and dishonesty is really a form of absence. So a boundary can be really loving and clear. For instance, I don't feel sexual attraction in this relationship, and if I'm gonna be in a couplehood with someone, then I want that to be there. So withdrawal is an attempt to avoid that discomfort by being dishonest.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:41

So just practice being present while telling the truth.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:44

That's the best. And again, you don't have to be perfect at this, you don't have to have perfect clarity. That's what these relationships are for, to teach clarity. So there's it's not a choice. What I see here is there seems to be a choice, too, between abandoning her or sacrificing yourself. The ego gives these two options stay in the relationship you don't want, or leave and abandon her. Okay, stay in the relationship that you don't really want or mess her up. There's another possibility here. You can speak honestly, you can be kind, you can allow the relationship to take the form that is really available. So the friendship can continue to go on. It could change, it could require distance. She might not want the friendship afterwards. She might not want it afterwards. That's okay. This idea that you know you're afraid someone else isn't gonna come along, that is not a reason to keep going and lying. You know, dishonesty, that's not that's that's not gonna help you in any kind of long run at all. And you can't predetermine what the outcome is gonna be either. So it's like be responsible for being honest, not for controlling how the form is gonna go. See, we get these relationships and we hook to them and go, oh no, what if it goes wrong? What if they start stop talking to me? This is really special, something like that. You don't know how long it's gonna last. You better be enjoying it while it's here. Things are changing all the time. You're not responsible for for preserving this relationship. He says he doesn't want to lose his best friend. That is sweet, and that's understandable. You don't want to lose your best friend, yeah. But if it's a friendship that can only survive while you you keep on presenting yourself as her romantic partner, then it's already distorted. If it needs you to be her romantic partner to survive, it's already a distorted friendship.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:15

So you might need to risk losing the form.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:21

It's better than compromising the content, right? You know, of course in miracles talks about this too. You know, if it the ego wants form over content. The Holy Spirit's want the Holy Spirit wants content over form. So he's looking at the form and going, This is a relationship, and I don't have many relationships, and I want to keep it. So you can't promise, okay, I'll tell the truth, but only if nothing changes, only if the form still stays in check and intact. Now the truth might change the relationship, and that's okay. That doesn't make the truth harmful. Yes, it may change the relationship. Tell the truth, anyways. You know that one, like a lot of the times people are having relationships where they'll they'll be cheating on the partner, right? And they'll go, I'm gonna tell them. I'm gonna tell them soon. I can't tell them right now because it'll hurt them, but I'm gonna tell them soon. Right? It's kind of like that. That's that's a way where you're trying to keep the form because you think it values you to keep the form, but it's the content, and the content is like honesty. You know, if you're if you're interested in someone else, let them know right away. You don't need to wait, let them know right away. That's gonna be the most loving thing you can possibly do. So it's like you're waiting to determine whether you're attracted to her enough, and she may believe she's in a committed relationship. That's not kind. She may be organizing her whole life around this understanding, and she might not be available too to recognize another relationship because she thinks she's in one with you, so that makes her not available to recognize when another relationship opportunity arises. That doesn't mean that you're doing anything wrong, you're not guilty for that or anything, but this prolonging this ambiguity that can feel unfair to her when one person knows how uncertain the relationship is, and the other one doesn't know that. You know, you might look at it like this she deserves to know the truth, so she could make her own decision. And then another thing about attraction, attraction can't be manufactured, right? Can't uh attraction can't be manufactured, you can't obligate yourself to be attracted to her. So if you have sex with her, that doesn't prove that you're healed, yeah, right? If you're forcing intimacy because you you're thinking that your reluctance is spiritually incorrect, like you like this person, you want to be with this person, and you're forcing the intimacy, that's also listening to the ego. That's not you know, it's not like spiritually incorrect to incorrect to be uh reluctant to be intimate with someone, it could be if it was mutual, it could be if it was mutual, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're it we what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:11

If they're both if they're both deciding that they're gonna be a relationship, it would not be intimate and call it a relationship, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:20

Yes, yes, yes, exactly. I was talking about forcing intimacy though, right? Yeah, so so what Christine is saying is if it's mutual that you want to be in a relationship and you want to be in a couplehood together, and you decide you're not gonna have sexual intimacy, but you're gonna call yourself a couple, yeah, that's totally fine. Yeah, yeah, but he's you know, he's talking about, you know, maybe he should just be intimate with her, even though he's not attracted to her, yeah, right? Yeah. So the question Heather's asking is what's the purpose of relationship? Yeah, that's what it comes. Down to you know, it's like the purpose, yeah. That's a good question. What is your perp personal purpose of the for the relationship? Like, are you giving the relationship to the Holy Spirit, or are you having an idea that you need this for something? See, when you have it, this personal idea that you need the relationship, like he's given a lot of a lot of reasons already. I think we can glean from what the reasons that he's given. He doesn't want to be alone, he doesn't have many people he could talk to, she's a really good friend, all of these different things, and then there's the fear of losing the relationship, and he's fine with it changing forms and going back to being friends, right? But he's afraid that she's gonna change and not want to be in the relationship at all because she's gonna be hurt because he doesn't have the couplehood, she doesn't have the couplehood part of it, right? Yeah, you could ask what's her purpose for the relationship, too. Exactly, yeah. And you know, when when we give our relationships to the Holy Spirit's purpose, they're always harmonious, like we all already know what to say, we already know how to communicate. It's just that we when we make a personal purpose for them, then we start to question. We don't know, we're afraid of losing something, we're afraid the form's gonna change into a form that we don't like, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:25

Okay, so the forces that if you have personal purposes that aren't under the Holy Spirit, right? That's when you you're gonna suffer.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:39

Yes, you will suffer. You will suffer, right? Yes, it sounds like he's suffering, yeah. He's suffering really well, he's doing a good job. So when you have personal purposes for the relationship, you're gonna be suffering, and that's what's going on over and over again. He keeps on presenting a personal purpose that he wants it to be a certain way, he wants it to come in a certain form, he doesn't want it to break up that kind of stuff. So it's not honoring, it's not honoring the purpose, the Holy Spirit's purpose, it's not honoring the person, it's not honoring yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:18

And have your purpose be truth, have your purpose be you know, a higher purpose, yes, that will matter if you have sex or don't have sex, we can have this or that because you're together for a higher purpose, yes, yes, that's a good point. Yes, that will have you not be in the little self-suffering, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:46

The little self-suffering. That's what's going on. It's this little self-suffering because it's not establishing that our relationship is for the Holy

Loneliness And Trusting Guidance

SPEAKER_01 1:30:55

Spirit's purpose, and that's the only purpose for any of this, whether you have sex, whether you don't have sex, okay? It's like whether you're attracted to them, you know, and being honest about how you feel, of course. You know, when you're giving it to the Holy Spirit's purpose, though, this honesty, it just is natural for you because that's how it is. That's how the Holy Spirit could that's the whole how the Holy Spirit guides, right? So attraction isn't the same as love. That's not the same. So you know, love isn't just confined to bodies like that, but that doesn't mean every loving relationship is going to be a romantic or sexual partnership, right? So you could love this person deeply and still not be called her romantic partner, too. So the correction is not bodies are unreal, so attraction should not matter. In the scheme of things, in the framework, attraction does matter, it matters to him, it totally matters to him. So uh so the correction isn't I will not use bodily attraction or its absence to make either of us guilty. Form can still be guided, or the fruit, the correction is that I will not use bodily attraction or the absence of bodily attraction to make us guilty, right? So the form can still be guided in this way, so we don't all have the same roles, and we don't all have to be in any kind of particular role when we give it to the Holy Spirit and we say, Holy Spirit, show me, let me use this rightly, let me use this for your purposes. What's my purpose again? Also, being needed is different from being chosen, right? So she may want him, she may rely on daily contact just like him. He's relying on the daily contact, she's relying on the daily contact, she's valuing his presence, he's valuing her presence, but being needed can make this sense of self-importance without producing genuine desire. So being needed isn't the same as being chosen, that's different. Okay, so it's like when you when you need companionship, that's not really choosing a partner. That's not the same as choosing a partner. My romantic partner. So you may need, you may feel like you need the companionship, you don't really need it, but that's not the same as actually like you're the one. You know, you're the one. That's the thing, and that you know, that's it's like this fear of no one's coming for her and no one's coming for you afterwards, that's not the reason to pretend like you're choosing because that's coming out of need, it's not choosing.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:15

But if one person's saying that the other person is the one, but the other person doesn't be the one. That seemed like two of us, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:25

That's not the situation here. White dev is asking, what if one person is saying you're the one and the other one saying, Well, I'm not sure that's the case? That's not the case here. Oh, okay, for it in a situation like that, just honesty. Yeah, you got something like that going, someone's telling that you're that you're the one and you're not so sure. Yeah. Okay, so all right. So let's say that's the case, just being honest again. You know, it's like all of these relationships, again, when you use them for the Holy Spirit's purpose, which is undoing the dream of separation, you're just using these relations for for that, everything becomes really clear, right? And honesty is a big part of that, just being honest about things. So a relationship can be mutually needed, like seeming like we need each other without mutually choosing each other, too. You can continue to relate with that person, even though they feel like they are choosing you, and you can still continue to relate with them, just being honest. That's not the that's not the feeling that I have here. You know, I'm not choosing that, right? And you can and and you know, you can still experience closeness with that person without choosing them in that way. I mean, we have close friends all the time where we're not choosing them in that way, but pretending like we are choosing them for some ulterior motive is not listening to the Holy Spirit, that's listening to the ego again, right? So a lot of the times people will pretend like they are choosing that person to get something, right? Money, sex, whatever, when they're not really right, that that's again listening to the ego. And like Heather was saying, it brings on suffering, and that's what's going on. So it's really important to look at this fear that you might not find someone else, right? What if I don't find someone? Well, that's the main reason why you're holding on to the relationship like this, because you're afraid. That's fear, that's listening to the ego again. Look, it is true that that it listening to the Holy Spirit is paramount. These are the ways you're not listening to the Holy Spirit, is what's going on here. What we're seeing are a lot of examples of not listening to the Holy Spirit. What if I don't find someone else that's not listening to the Holy Spirit? That's listening to the ego. I've been, I'm afraid of being alone. That's listening to the ego, right? The fear might be one of the main reasons for holding on to the relationship, but it's not a good reason. It's just telling you you're not listening. It's like using a person to protect you again against a future that's uncertain. That's the ego's way. I want to be protected, I don't want to be alone. So, am I willing to be alone? The good question is am I willing to be alone rather than use this person to protect me from loneliness? Right? That would really be a way of listening to the Holy Spirit. So it's one thing to go, okay, I'm just gonna listen to the Holy Spirit. Another thing is how? So these are really good questions to show us, okay, how does this look? How does it look when I'm listening to the ego? Am I choosing this romantic? Am I truly choosing this romantic relationship or am I just afraid? Right? What am I afraid of? What if I'm afraid I'll lose if I tell the truth? That's another question. What am I afraid of losing if I just tell the truth? Am I asking her to protect me from loneliness? You know, you might even communicate that. I'm afraid to tell you this because I'm afraid of losing our friendship. Right? I'm feeling afraid. You're a fear is never your identity. This is a temporary thing, right? So recognizing it's a temporary thing, it's a temporary thing that's passing. You know, hoping that she'll make the decision so you don't feel guilty. That's a dead giveaway right now, right there, of listening to the ego. And see, it's so simple because when that thought arises in your mind, I'm hoping she's gonna make the decision. You bring that to the Holy Spirit right there and recognize that's thought is hurting your mind. And then that, and then you're relieved of it in the moment. Okay, have I confused her disappointment with evidence that I'm harming her? Like if she's disappointed because of something you say, that does not mean you're harming her. That's another ego trick, that's a guilty thing. Are you making her body responsible for your uncertainty? Like she needs to lose 20 pounds. That's another one. That's ego-driven belief. That's not listening if you're thinking that her body is the reason for you being uncertain. Are you diagnosing her rather than speaking to her? Are you making it as if uh you know why she has the 20 pounds or you know why she doesn't want to be intimate with you? Do you believe that closeness removes your freedom? That's another one. Listening to the ego. Do you believe commitment means captivity? Are you captive if you can make a commitment to someone? And big one, are you willing to let the relationship change form? What if it fades? What if it goes away? That is huge. I noticed that in my own relationship with my husband for many years. It was like, what'll happen if I don't, you know, if I if I don't keep this relationship, if I don't keep the form of this relationship, people aren't going to approve. There's gonna be people not approving. What'll happen to my financial situation? What about the kids? What about this? What about that? Right? That's listening to the ego. It's not it's not a guilty thing. Listening to the ego is not a guilty thing, it's something we do all the time. We're learning to listen to the spirit, right? We're learning to do this. Am I willing to let my relationship change form? Or am I holding on to something? Am I willing to stop promising something that I'm not genuinely available for? And can I trust that she's guided perfectly? Can I trust that she doesn't need to be depending on me managing her? Can I allow us both to be innocent, even if the conversation is uncomfortable, right? So the central issue isn't whether you should stay or leave a relationship. That's never it. The deeper issue is whether you're willing to stop using your fear of loneliness, guilt, fear of losing a friendship to postpone your honesty. So you don't heal by forcing yourself into intimacy either. That's not healing.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:42

And you don't heal by running away from communication.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:49

So healing is by allowing your beliefs underneath all this conflict to just be seen. You can see it. When you're behaving with clarity, when you're, you know, you're behaving while you're behaving with clarity, while you're behaving with kindness and integrity, you know, you can see the underlying beliefs. Before you're behaving like that, just communicate so you can see it. The more you communicate, the more you can see things, you know, and communicating honestly, can communicating without trying to make anyone guilty, without making yourself guilty, right? Just letting people know this is the way I feel. I may not be coming across very clearly like right now, but this is how I'm feeling. Okay, there's no need to try to protect another person by being dishonest. That's a really common thing. It's trying to protect a person by being dishonest with them. It's actually an attack, it's a it's an attack on yourself. And you know, every single form of sickness is an effect of something like this. It's an effect of trying to protect by being dishonest. The ego is totally dishonest, and the ego always shows up as having good intentions. You know, it's like as if it's I'm being honest out of good intentions. I'm protecting her, I'm protecting you, I'm protecting my family, I'm protecting the kids by being dishonest.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:24

Everything is a lesson God intended to learn, and it sounds like he the Holy Spirit has set him up with a beautiful lesson, yes, in how to walk through his fear and to step into his Holy Spirit self.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:40

Yes, all for all of us. She's saying everything is a lesson God would have you learn, right? Everything is a lesson that God would have you learn. So this whole scenario and what you've given to us too, by making that recording for me so that we can have a conversation about that, what you've given it to us too is all showing all of us lessons that we can learn about how to be more honest and how to listen to the Holy Spirit so we can see ourselves clearly and we could see how the ego uses these relationships when the Holy Spirit would use them for perfect joy. You know, there's so much freedom in these relationships when we'll allow ourselves to see them as they really are. They're like a classroom for undoing the illusion of separation, they're a classroom for undoing the underlying belief that upholds this whole world and this whole thing, it's based on relationships. The better our relationships are able to be seen by us as like a classroom, the more joyful they are. Instead of using them as something that we can get something out of or protect someone else from harm. You know, with my very potent relationship, I've had uh, you know, several, but uh, but one that comes up to me that's kind of it, it kind of mirrors this one, not completely, but it kind of mirrors this relationship. It's like I just kept on giving the relationship to the Holy Spirit. Like whenever I felt confused about how things were going or anything like that, I just say, Holy Spirit, I give this relationship to you. Please show me. And the more I give the relationship to hold to the Holy Spirit, the more joyful it is. You know, I could always tell when I'm not giving it to the Holy Spirit because I'm trying to protect him, or I'm trying to protect myself, or I'm acting like he needs me. So then I should be sacrificing myself. There's a lot of different ways that the ego comes in and kind of makes it so makes it so we shouldn't listen to the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit would just use these relationships as a classroom, and they're a perfect classroom for us, especially these romantic relationships. And I see how they're set up perfectly for us. They may not come around that often. That's okay. You know, it's like they may not come around again, or you might not have another real romantic relationship. What if I don't have another romantic relationship for the rest of this lifetime? The truth of the matter is if you don't have another romantic relationship, you actually don't need another romantic relationship. That's really what it is. You know, I have a friend ask me, she's asked me this often. It's pretty funny because you know, she keeps on coming up with a the question again and again. And I know I must need that question. That's why she's asking me the question, right? She's like, uh she'll say something, you're so amazing and so wonderful and so beautiful and all these things. She's like, why don't you have a romantic relationship? And I'm like, I don't need one. That's why. Will you ever have a romantic relationship? If I need one, if if I need one, it's gonna be presented to me, you know. It's like I've I've experienced, you know, feeling like, wow, I really feel like I would like sex. That's like the main thing. Okay. I've had I've had that go on where I was like, well, you know what? All right, maybe I don't need a romantic relationship, but I will just want to have some sex, right? So then I find myself going out and getting some sex, and I'm like, this is not satisfying, right? I'm like, okay, we'll just wait on, we'll just wait for that too, and let it all be orchestrated too. You know, just let these things, let the let these things be orchestrated. And what I mean by that is kind of like let them take you by surprise. This isn't saying that you shouldn't go on a dating app, but just don't expect that that's gonna, that's gonna lead to something that you actually want. Because nothing, nothing in this world that you pursue in this world leads to what you actually want. And you know what? You may I've I've heard of people going on dating apps and going, what do you mean I wouldn't get what I want? Look, I got my partner of 30 years from a dating app or something like that. What I'm saying is that you trying to get something in the world is not what you really want. What you really want is undoing the thought of separation. That's really what you want. It's like this sense that you want like pleasure or something like that in the world, it just turns out to be meaningless. You know, it really does. It's not, it's it's it's the it's the using it as a classroom so that the Holy Spirit can help you undo the thought of separation. That's really where it really comes in that wow, this is truly joy. This is truly a joy, you know, surrendering all these ideas that you want something in the world, thinking that that's gonna give you something, you know, even pleasure itself, pleasure itself is in the moment. It's a it's the willingness to enjoy this moment as it is, to receive the blessings right now, no matter what you happen to be doing in that moment. And then the more you're allowing yourself to be in joy in that way, the more joy you seem to find through all of your experiences, whatever they may be, because you're allowing your mind to see what's actually true all the time and not trying to get something. So you could see that the bulk of this friend's message and the bulk of the questions were all about trying to get something and keep something, keep this dynamic going. I want to keep this thing that I seem to have, that I seem to possess. Look at it like this. You don't possess any person, you don't possess a relationship. It's being orchestrated right now, just in this moment, so that you can see past the thought of separation, allowing it to be used. By that, by as a means like that, makes it completely satisfying. All of your relationships are meant to be completely satisfying in whatever form they do take. And the way that they do become completely satisfying is your willingness to see that this is the lesson, this is the classroom. What would I use this for? Right. And when you're asking like that, you're giving gratitude to everyone, including yourself. You're giving gratitude to this person in whatever way they seem to be showing up. That's really the joy of it. And that's where the relationship satisfies you completely. So let's say you're the one who feels like you want to be committed to this person. You are choosing this person and they are not choosing you. You can be completely satisfied with that dynamic because you're using the relationship for the Holy Spirit's function. So you could feel like you want to choose that person, they don't want to choose you, and you can be completely open to it going forward as to whether they do choose you or they don't. Same way the other way around. If you're getting the sense that they're choosing you or they're telling you, hey, I'm choosing you as my person, and you're like, and you're honest about it, you're going, I'm not feeling that. I'm not feeling that about you. You know, I had a situation like that where someone was saying, you know what, I really want to be with you. And I'm like, I'm not really feeling that about you, though. And immediately they drop the whole relationship. And I was like, Well, that's the way it needs to be. That's a, you know, that's not a problem. They may drop the whole relationship. Don't be afraid of how the form changes. You know, it's like new things are always coming in the field, new stuff is always arising. You know, you may have gone through periods where you experience loneliness. I'm telling you, you did not experience loneliness because there wasn't another body around. That's a misinterpretation. You know, the idea that you need another body to protect you from loneliness, that's the ego's game. You're only feeling lonely because you're believing that you need another body. That's not the truth. That's never the truth. You know, I recently spent a lot of time alone, more time than I ever felt I ever spent alone in my life. I spent six months pretty much by myself. You know, I went on some dates, had a little sex out there too, but it was brief. It was very brief. For the most time, I was just by myself and I was looking for that loneliness. Where is that loneliness? I want to see that because people are often talking about this loneliness thing. And you know, it never showed up, it just didn't show up. It's like when you have the Holy Spirit as your companion, you're not lonely. And I, you know, I'm noticing at one point I heard a thought that said, Oh shit, you haven't had a hug in like weeks. I'm used to having a lot of hugs. You know, I grew up in a family where they were hugging all the time, and also had a family for all these years where people were hugging me, community people hugging me. And there was a thought, oh my goodness, you haven't had a hug in weeks. Can this even be healthy? Immediately the Holy Spirit comes in. It's like, shit, I don't even need a hug. You know how they say that you know you're not doing well if you don't have a hug? I'm like, that's not true. Because when you have the Holy Spirit, it's like you have more than a hug. You know, you have your you have your companion, you don't need another body around. That's the ego's game that says you need a body, right? There, if you don't have a body around you, something's wrong. If you don't have a body to touch you, if you don't have a body to have sexual contact with you, something like that, then there's some kind of problem. But really, you know, what the Holy Spirit is showing us through all of these relations is like, for one, enjoy being with them as you're with while you're with them. Enjoy being in their presence because that could change at any point. Also, be a hundred percent honest and don't worry about the form of the relationship changing. Let it change to whatever it needs to be, because whatever it needs to be is perfect. Let it let it let you yourself look at it like this. Whatever the relationship becomes is a hundred percent beneficial. It's for the Holy Spirit's purpose, and it's a good classroom for you. That is the classroom, okay? Let that be just like it is. All right. That's that's the gist of it. So thank you very much. Thank you to my friend who gave me that question. If you still want to talk to me about it, I'm available to talk about it. I think we covered it really well today, went through all the different aspects and all the different nuances, all the different ways you could be listening to the ego instead of giving it to the Holy Spirit. And, you know, it's true that when you give it to the Holy Spirit, and you know, saying it and and doing it seem to be two different things. Also, there seems to be all these nuances and different patterns in there to look at. So I really appreciate you for giving me this five minutes where you revealed all these different habits and patterns that would prevent us from using a relationship for the Holy Spirit's purpose so we could see these different ways and all apply it to the all of us apply it to the different ways we relate, all kinds of different relationships, where we're trying to use a strategy to keep a relationship for fear of loneliness, for fear of hurting another person, for pretending like we're attracted or not attracted due to certain appearances or anything like that. So we can see where we're lying to ourselves and kind of like, you know, in a way, call it, call ourselves on this bullshit, or you could say call the ego on the bullshit that's making these relationships even seem complicated at all, because our relationships are not meant to bring suffering. They're meant to be totally happy and joyful and completely satisfying, completely satisfying no matter what form they take, even if that form looks like the form is falling apart or the form is changing forms, or you're going to no contact or anything like that. That's how it is for me, okay? Ekati says, honesty is the best and only policy. Yes. And you know, and here's the thing too. It's like it is it is awesome to be honest. And then also it does, it doesn't mean you have to say everything. That means that you don't have to say, and you will say it if you don't realize this. If you don't realize, like in this case about her weight, right? It's not really honest that it's it's the problem is her weight. That's not actually honest, that's actually dishonest, right? Because that's not the truth. It's not about her weight. You seem to have a preference. That's more honest. You seem to have a preference, but that's not really the truth. All right. Because whether or not you have attraction isn't really up to you. And it's not really based on these preferences. That's just to try to give a reason for it. These things are being orchestrated because you two coming together is the perfect classroom that the Holy Spirit can use to teach you what you need to see in this at this point in time. Really, that's

Gratitude Lesson And Closing

SPEAKER_01 1:58:12

really the truth. Okay. Even the preferences are not true, but you could say I seem to have a preference, and that's really honest. Okay. So yay, everyone. So tomorrow we'll be going into a lesson, lesson 195. Love is the way I walk in gratitude. Yay. And that'll be at 1 p.m. Hawaii time. Same thing. I'll be on Zoom. I'll try to connect with Facebook and also Substack. Zoom is usually really reliable. So if you want to make sure you get on and online, come to Zoom because that's the most reliable. The absolute most reliable, though, is to show up in person because I'm here in person and you never know what this technology is going to do. So until tomorrow, thank you so much for joining everyone. I love you. Mahalo, aloha, and a hoo-e-ho. Woo. Yay. Thank you for the hearts.