When you combine these kind of unique um understanding of the mind, the ability of the mind to discriminate between destructive versus constructive and positive emotions, together with Western ingenuity and the leisure that affluence provides, the leisure time, and the dissatisfaction that contemporary life brings to so many people. It could really be an explosion of like spiritual development and well-being and living in harmony with our environment when you think about all through the ecology crisis that we've never seen before. It's kind of like we're either heading towards a big disaster or just like an incredible new golden age.
SPEAKER_00One of my favorite things in life is friendship. So it's my pleasure in this episode to introduce you to one of my newest friends, Geshe Tenzin Lektsak. Geshe Laksh is one of the very first Americans to complete the Tibetan Buddhist Geshe degree, a 25-year ultra-rigorous course of study in Tibetan Buddhism. He recently returned from his studies in India to teach in the United States. I got to know Geshe Lakshak on a backcountry camping trip last year, enjoying our shared passion for the natural world during a break from his busy teaching schedule. Afterwards, we sat down for this interview about one of his most provocative ideas that far from living in the worst of times, as many people proclaim, perhaps these are the best of times for humanity. Could it be possible that life today overflows with unprecedented riches and opportunities for us to lead happy, meaningful lives? Listen to this episode and see if you agree. I'm Scott Snibby, and this is How to Train a Happy Mind. You and I went on a hike recently. We went on a backcountry trip, and we got to talk to you for about 20 hours or so, which I really enjoyed. And now we are going to condense that down into a brief conversation for people about um some of the ways that um Buddhism is innovating in the West and some of your own uh role in that.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell Thank you for having me. I'm yeah happy to talk about some of these issues that I think we're both quite uh interested in and feel kind of strongly about.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So let's start off talking about you, which I know can be an uncomfortable thing if you're a humble monk. Um but for the benefit of us, I wonder if you could just tell us your story. You're a geshe, you're an American Geshe, one of the very first American Geshes. Explain to people what a geshe is and uh how you came to become one.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Yeah, it's definitely not something I ever set out to become. Um just kind of happened gradually. But yeah, Geshe, I mean, it's a Tibetan term, um, which is kind of used similar to like the PhD title. It's a name for like the completion of a course of study or practice that you've engaged in. And in the Tibetan system, it's very long. Like it's actually usually it's more like a 25-year uh program, but mine was shortened a little bit to 20 years. But literally, gay is means virtue, and she, shenyin means friend. So it means like virtuous friend.
SPEAKER_00And the Dalai Lama is a geshe.
SPEAKER_02Dalai Lama is also a geshe, yeah. And I mean it's it's in the Gilupa tradition, right, of the four schools of uh Buddhism. Uh but the other schools all have their own kind of equivalent.
SPEAKER_00And when you study to become a geshe, it's all in Tibetan.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the curriculums in the medium language, language medium is all Tibetan. Yeah. Yeah, so I became ordained not because I like to study Buddhism. Actually, you know, I got a bachelor's degree in philosophy. And by the time I'd gotten a bachelor's degree, I was fed up with study. Like I wanted to do something more experiential, hands-on, kind of see the world. Um, so the last thing I was thinking about was like graduate studies. So in 2001, when I became ordained, I fell in love with Buddhism because I loved to meditate and I love to think about the explanations that they receive. And I was, I mean, mainly I was so inspired by His Holiness the Dalai Lama and other Tibetan teachers that I met who just to me embodied like, oh, this is you know what I really want to be as a person. And I'm just really kind, wise, humble, um, you know, sincere people, like with obviously a very deep practice that is palpable in their presence.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell And how do you connect the dots from a kid who grew up in Virginia to coming to a monastery in India for 20 years or yeah, I grew up in a Catholic family in Virginia with very kind parents, uh both in the mental health field, but also kind of an unhappy family.
SPEAKER_02Like my parents' relationship wasn't very good, and I could see that this is similar with most of my my friends I was growing up with, that you know, although that have affluent and well-educated and have good like success, career success, like a lot of people not very happy. So I had that kind of in the forefront of my mind as I went to college. Like, how do you you know create a happy life for yourself? So in college, then I studied, you know, different topics, um, sociology a bit. Um, also was in I was interested in Asia as a whole. I spent my junior year abroad in Indonesia and then Australia. Um, and I was just blown away by how different Asian culture is from Western culture and just different values, different ways of life. I also took a course in Buddhism. I'd never heard of Buddhism until I went to college. Um seems kind of surprising by today's standards, but yeah, I just it never really came up in uh, you know, my education before that. So in college, I took a course in Buddhism and then the professor very kindly taught us how to meditate. And I remember that first meditation session. That was the, I think it was the first time I ever, you know, I sat down and observed my own mind. I definitely, you know, I liked before that I liked to go for walks in the forest and kind of sit quietly and think about things, but it was always my attention was always turned outwards. I never really just sat and turned my intention inwards and observed my own mind as an object. And that was, it just it just felt like this whole new uh horizon was opening before me. So then I started meditating. But, you know, probably like most people, I felt like, okay, meditation is something I can do on that side, like exercise or you know, going for walks. It's not like a career path, right? It's just something you do to support your other things. And so I was pursuing, you know, different kinds of work. I was really confused about what kind of career career path I wanted to follow. I had no idea. But um, but a couple years after college, then I had cancer. I was diagnosed with testicular cancer. Yeah, everything sort of collapsed to the moment of just dealing with cancer. And then and then in that, in that kind of, I don't know, you could say the difficulty of dealing with that experience, meditation was really helpful. Meditation and feeling loved by others, feeling affection from others. And also, I mean, I had an excellent doctor and medical care and stuff, but but those were kind of the the main things that I felt really helped me. And so as I was coming, as I was uh in the treatment went well and cancer went into remission, and then I was kind of looking newly at, okay, what am I going to do with my life? And I felt like, oh, well, you know, meditation, I mean, in one way, meditation's been exceptionally beneficial to me, so I want to learn more about it and teach it to others. But in another way, like, because I mean, I think we use our lives to bring some kind of transformation, not only in ourselves, but to the world in some way. And I could see that I'd thought about going into architecture before that to create beautiful spaces that people can come to. But then I reflected, I was thinking, you know, I've been to many beautiful buildings, right? And it does feel really nice to be there. And it gives you new ideas, but but after I leave that building, like there's not a lot that remains. I've seen heard great music, seen great movies, but it doesn't change your life and you can't use it that much. Whereas meditation, you know, you learn a little bit and you can use it to go deeper and deeper and deeper. It's more and more beneficial. So then I also thought, you know, in terms of other career paths, I think meditation would be the one that if I could teach well to others, it would be most beneficial. So that led me to um to Thailand at first, and then Nepal, and then Tibetan Buddhism. And you know, when I met Tibetan Buddhism, I was just so impressed by the variety of different meditation techniques, the depth of explanation behind it, and uh and the kind of the charisma, the obviously the level of personal development of the people who were kind of the role models um in that system. So then I started practicing and just found it incredibly beneficial. And I was really happy. I think it was it was happier than I'd ever been in my life, just like living in those communities in the retreat centers and attending Dharma teachings, you know, with this holiness and other lamas and going to pilgrimage places in India, and then doing retreat, group retreat. I was so happy I started to think, oh, maybe I want to do this like for my whole life.
SPEAKER_00So two things. One is um in making that commitment to become the Geshe, to start studying you turning away from you know, sexuality, relationships, and then turning towards a 20-year commitment. Like, how did you deal with those two things which seem quite quite big?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean the the the second one is easier, no, the turning towards a 20-year commitment. One of the first and best advice that I received when I was went to Sarah to start the program was don't think about like trying to com complete this whole 20-year study program. It's just like it's so unrealistic. There was a Spanish monk, um Jampa Shimpin, uh Jesus, who's still ordained and he lives in Spain, a very good meditator. He he suggested just think about one year at a time. Just think, okay, I'll stay for one year. And then at the end of the year, check. Is it beneficial? Do you want to do another year or not? And so I I just took that literally and I did that every year. And every year, yeah, I mean, you know, most of the monks in the monastery, you can see from the beginning of the year, everyone's really gone, oh, and jumps into the studies. And by six months in, they're all burnt out and kind of ready, just to need a break. But the the monastery schedule is very intensive, so you don't get much of a break, and then you keep going by the end of ten months, like you're so ready to do something else. But then I would go back to um usually Dharmsala, Tushita Meditation Center or Kopan and do retreat for a month or two. And then during that time of doing retreat, I could see how beneficial everything I just learned in the previous year, not to mention the years before that, was just really beneficial for my practice and made my my own uh contemplation, my own thinking, my own experience like much deeper. And then I'd get this natural enthusiasm to go back and study another year, another juicy topic. I think it's hard to imagine how different the things you study each year are. Yeah. But every year is really quite different from the the one before. You're always learning like very new things. But the sexuality part, that's a more difficult question. I mean, I got in one way I kind of feel fortunate because so many monks, um so many of my classmates who are you know in traditional Tibetan culture, like they were ordained when they were very young, and then never had the experience of having a romantic relationship with someone. And so to them, there's always this kind of mystique to it. And for some it's totally disinteresting, but for many of them it's also kind of a fascination because they never had it. And it leads many of them actually to leave the ordained life in order to be able to try that. No. So I feel very fortunate actually to grow up as a lay person and have been able to try that and see that you know, you can have as much sex as you want, but it doesn't really make you that happy. At some point, it's kind of like exercise, it just becomes sort of a drag. Like, yeah, some degree of sex, there is some pleasure to go with that. But I think the more difficult thing to give up is the like sense of emotional intimacy and closeness with another person. I don't know, for better or worse, like yeah, I'd had ver several quite intense relationships before as ordained, and it always didn't end like that well, right? It's difficult relationships. Whereas I could see the joy that I that uh I experienced through my Dharma practice was much more stable source of joy and very pure, unmixed with this kind of this kind of strong emotional drama that goes with the sexual relationship or even a you know romantic relationship. And and I could see like my own teachers, like Lama Lundrup and Lamuzop Rembrushe, His Holiness, they're incredibly happy without that.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell You talked about the joy of meditation, you know. I think it's something you and I both feel too. It's that you know they say you shouldn't meditate just because it feels good, but it does help if you enjoy meditating. So can you talk a little bit about that? Like what is meditation, right?
SPEAKER_02It's a difficult question to answer, because meditation is different things. We can divide meditation into like placement meditation or shamata and analytical meditation of vipassana. So so placement meditation clearly is one type, or mindfulness meditation, where you're just trying to develop mental focus by by turning your attention to one object and trying to maintain a continuity, a very clear awareness of that one object without distraction. Then analytical meditation, I mean, it's a label that encompasses a much broader like type of meditation. So here Kedrab Jay says, like, one type is where you're thinking about a question. You're on you're thinking about different questions and trying to generate insight into how to answer that question by relating it to your own experiences, by imagining maybe a possible future, by thinking of different lines of reasoning and different teachings that you yourself have heard, and trying to bring all those together to converge on one sort of new insight into some aspect of reality that you hadn't seen clearly before. But another type of meditation is where you generate a certain attitude, like meditation on loving kindness, where you try to generate a sincere wish that others be happy, or or that yourself have a genuine happiness or compassion. So, yeah, that's quite a different type of meditation. Another type of meditation is where you visualize something and then maybe try to imagine becoming like some kind of ideal archetype. But what do they all have in common is that you're deliberately focusing your attention on something? Because it's not that we don't focus our attention other times. When we're really irritated about something, our mind can be very focused on that. When we're worried about something happening, our mind can be very focused on that. But that's not meditation, right? Why? One, because it's not deliberately focusing your attention. And then the second and more important part is that you're not doing it with a virtuous motivation, right? Sometimes people describe, and some of the text meditation is described as focusing your mind on a virtuous object. But I don't think that really works either, because you can do meditation on anger, which is clearly non-virtuous. You focus on that, but with a virtuous intention. You're doing it for not to become angry, but in order to generate antidotes to anger, have more patience, right? So I think those two is kind of what defines meditation. You're deliberately focusing your attention with a virtuous intention or motivation, and you do it again and again and again. And the the Tibetan word for meditation is gum, and it has the connotation of become habituated to or familiar to familiarize with.
SPEAKER_00You were sharing something about the difference between um like a misunderstanding about meditation sometimes, that it's not about trying to make your mind a certain way as much as asking questions.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell One thing I see again and again with people learning to meditate is many people have the idea meditation just means blanking out. It means just n just not letting any thoughts arise, or any thoughts that do arise, just letting them go and making your mind kind of vacuous, just like emptying your mind of all content. And that is one technique of meditation, and it can be helpful in certain circumstances. But also I see many cases where people seem to feel that all meditation is trying to make yourself believe something, like this becomes like a kind of dogma. And it's definitely not that. If anything, I mean that's just becomes another delusion, another costume for reality, you know, another layer of uh separation from reality. Whereas meditation should always bring us more in close with closer to reality, right? Because I mean the Buddhist fundamental teaching is we suffer because we're disconnected from reality, right? And so if we try to force ourselves to believe something which we're not really sure we believe, or to feel something which we don't genuinely and authentically and just spontaneously feel, then I always feel like it's another kind of just contriving something, making something that's contrived. I think it's it's it's better a technique to come to a peaceful state, to look at the things that are making us not feel peaceful. Yeah. Right? And think about why do those things disturb me and how can I come to terms with those in a way that they don't disturb me like that. And then you genuinely, genuinely the peacefulness will come, but in a way that you've arrived at that by going through the hard territory so that you've looked at all the possible, you know, things that are gonna upset your peace in the future already, and then it's very stable. If you just sit down and try to feel peaceful by pushing aside all those things, not really looking at all those things that disturb your peace, they're all waiting there. And when they have their chance, they're gonna jump in.
SPEAKER_00You know, I this there's something that's always bothered me actually, because there's a number of stories of the Buddha and arrows, right? But one of them is that an arrow strikes you, you know, and um you say, Oh, are you gonna ask yourself where did this arrow come from and so on? Or are you just going to pull it out? Well, in some ways, like I think it is actually useful to ask where the arrow came from, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You know, I'm sure the Buddha would have used that same analogy in a different way, in a different context. You know, when you get anger, when you get triggered by something, then you do need to ask, well, where is that coming from? Why am I getting triggered? Yeah, right. But I think it's definitely a trap to get caught up in just thinking about and intellectualizing all these things without really addressing your own uh practice. And I think that's what when he uses that analogy of the arrow. Maybe we should clarify too, this analogy of the arrow, someone's walking through the forest and they're struck by a poisoned arrow, you know, and then that person, if they ask, well, who shot the arrow? Where was it shot from? Who made it? What kind of poison is on the arrow? By the time they figure all that out, they're gonna be dead from the poison in the wound, right? So the the important thing is just to pull the arrow out and treat it. And there's definitely a place for that kind of mentality. But it's all about a middle way. Like when do you just stop thinking about things and just sit and sit quietly? And when do you ask questions? And you know, kind of have to find the middle way, incorporating both of those. I find really helpful when I'm leading meditation. I always usually try to frame each step of the meditation as a question, inviting people to ask this and see what comes up for themselves. Because that leads to sort of a genuine reflection on what we believe, how we see things. Personally, I find that kind of that kind of meditation guidance where I'm I'm told to like just think something without having questioned at first. I found really dissatisfying. And like, I just can't do that. I'm a skeptical person. I'm naturally like a philosophical person. Like, before I believe anything, it's only responsible to ask and challenge it, right? And so often, actually, by challenging an idea, it leads us deeper into an understanding of the idea. Even when we hear some an idea we like, that's when we need to be really cautious, right? Because there's probably some bias working within us that wants us to believe that. And it's convenient somehow to believe that.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Everything we're talking about comes from Buddhism. And there's a big uh there is a wave of uh growth in of Buddhism in the West. But tell me a little bit about you know what that means to you, how you know, and also coming from the Dalai Lama and his his perspective, you know, how is that different than like Christianity sweeping Africa? There's something like that. You know, what does it mean as Buddhism comes into a culture that's not Buddhist?
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell There's different, you know, many different aspects of Buddhism. And you know, we're free to use that as a resource to draw from. It's like an encyclopedia. You don't go to an encyclopedia to read it from cover to cover, right? You look up something that you need at that time. So we can use Buddhism like that, right? To draw different parts of it that are useful without taking on board the whole thing, right? Without practicing Buddhism as a religion. And I think Buddhism, the Buddha would be, you know, happy with that. His whole insta Dalai Lama is kind of the representative of the Buddha in the Tibetan tradition now, and he that's that's what he advises.
SPEAKER_00The Dalai Lama is the only religious leader I ever saw. You know, when I saw him for the first time, he said, Don't become Buddhist. That was really shocking. Like, is that a new message in Buddhism or has that always been the message?
SPEAKER_02I've never seen it in a sutra where the Buddha says, Don't become Buddhist, but he also doesn't say become Buddhist. Yeah. You know, the both messages are not really there for a while. Now I can genuinely say I don't feel that much, but for a while, it's like secretly I want everyone to become Buddhist. But that's a natural part of the ego. I think it's like seeing something that's really beneficial for myself and believing like this is right, it's it's it's the best teaching, and the world would be so much better if everyone is Buddhist, but that's totally unrealistic, no? And it's not the best teaching for everyone. Like people are very different. And I think the reason His Holiness says that is just in that recognition. If you grew up in a family that embraced a different religious tradition, for you to convert to Buddhism would be very disruptive and cause a lot of disharmony and worry and fear and maybe confusion for yourself. And every spiritual tradition offers so much. They're so deep and so beneficial in many ways. They all they all have a basis of pure. Morality. They all have a basis of compassion and helping others, serving others, and they all have, you know, methods to reduce our selfishness and our ego, our egotistical pride and arrogance. They all ask of their followers they be humble and kind, no? So, you know, so there's no need for those fundamental human values to develop those as a person. We don't need to become Buddhist. We don't even need to meditate, actually. There's so many other ways to develop those basic qualities. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00There's something kind of always bothered me a little bit the way I learned about Tibetan Buddhism. And I think you you shared this a little bit, that we live in degenerate times. You know, this is one of these core teachings we hear, and that things were better in the past. It's not just in Buddhism, you know. Many people feel that way, and maybe quite reasonably that things were better in the past. Tell me your take on this. I think you have an interesting perspective.
SPEAKER_02You know, the advice, the the way the abbot and the disciplinarian and the leaders within the community they always give advice with this kind of underlying assumption that in the past things were better. These are degenerate times, everything's getting worse. You can see that everybody's watching TV now, everybody has mobile phones, people are traveling, all the people wearing all different kinds of clothes, eating all different kinds of food, acting in all kinds of strange ways that you know we never saw before. And it's uh yeah, it's going to destroy our Buddhist tradition, right? So there's very much this idea that the past was better. This really came clear to my mind when I um read these two books by Stephen Pinker, right, the Harvard psychologist. Better angels of ourselves and enlightenment now. I loved his approach of just looking at different sets of data, like infant mortality rate, um, you know, the death of mothers during childbirth, rates of literacy, rates of poverty, rates of homicide, rates of crime, rates of domestic abuse, the percentage of population that dies through illnesses like smallpox or typhoid fever and things. Like there's on so many different levels, I mean, access to education and literacy rates. Like you look at all these different like levels of measuring happiness. Like, how do you measure happiness? How do you measure quality of life? I mean, the Buddhist approach would be very different than his, but there's a lot of overlap, right? And by all these different parameters, like since the end of World War II until now, we've lived in the most privileged and peaceful and prosperous and the best quality of life in many ways of any period in human history. And there's a lot of evidence to support that. But definitely, I think one thing he doesn't look at that the Buddhists are looking at when they say we live in degenerate times, is the ease with which we can generate deep spiritual realizations, right? The ease with which we can generate good mental focus, that we can discriminate things that only bring us short-term pleasure and lead to long-term disappointment, versus things that maybe in uh maybe entail short-term hardship but lead to long-term well-being and and genuine, like lasting happiness. But I also think it's it is destructive to always think the past was better and it'll never come again. That's such a depressing view, no? I think it's so important to imagine a better future and aim towards that. Um, because that that brings you hope, it brings you energy, it brings it it elicits creativity, and it elicits, you know, connection with others and helps you just see how to do things that are productive.
SPEAKER_00And did you feel this kind of like pessimism in the monastery too, or in some of your teachers?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you do see that pessimism. There was like this golden age of Tibetan Buddhism from about like the 1300s until you could say right up until the early 1900s, when there were just a lot of very I mean, the whole society is totally kind of not totally harmonious, but that's the focus of their activity. It's kind of like you think of the, you know, the in in in Europe in the during the Enlightenment or the Renaissance building these beautiful incredible cathedrals. Like this is a focus of society such that even a relatively small number of people can make these and create these incredible things. In Tibet, it was like the monasteries, the temples, and then the the the persons, the people who developed real incredible realizations. And since they've come into exile, like, you know, like I said, when I started studying Tibetan Buddhism, I wanted to meditate and do retreat. But and when I went to the monastery, also that's kind of why I was studying, so I could meditate. But then I'd ask my classmates and the other monks I knew, even senior monks, like who is there that's developed realizations? It's very difficult to find. And I'm not saying it's because they people don't have realizations. There's a big kind of um aura of secrecy and and humility, such that in the Tibetan tradition is very strong. Even you have realizations, you don't speak about it to others, right? But but even among you know the monks I knew as peers, very few of them meditate. You know, they recite texts, make do prayers, do some meditation practices, but more in the I mean the Tibetan term for it, even is kandun, you would something you recite from the mouth, which is a big misnomer, right? Because that's not it. And I kind of imagine like in the past in Lhasa, for example, you would have been surrounded by these ancient holy objects, holy places, these tales of great, you know, practitioners and yogis. And it's just not, I mean, partly it's just a fact of being in exile now, and that you know, Tibet is under communist rule now. So it's it's really a broken system in a way, which is a big part of their you know, outlook. But even you know, in Sri Lanka, for example, because Sri Lanka is an ancient Buddhist culture. Um, and I've been, you know, I I used to travel there quite a lot, and I would ask, you know, people I would meet there, senior monks I would meet there. Are there people meditating like there were before? And they'll all say like no. Or even you go to Ladakh, which has a, you know, there's you you can hike around Ladakh, there's a lot of retreat caves where people used to live and meditate, and now they're empty. So there I mean that aspect is in is in decline in Buddhism.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Ross Powell It's funny because it was around the time of the Western Renaissance that there was a renaissance in to in Tibet, you know, in the Himalayas, uh like Lamusang Khappa and so on. I think you like to use that metaphor of the the Renaissance, right? So in some ways, you know, you are making the case there is it is a little bit of a degenerate era. What's the case for optimism? You know, what's the case for another another Renaissance?
SPEAKER_02There does seem to be seem to be something special about those that even partially studied and trained in Tibet pre-1959. There was just this incredibly, I think it was like a golden age of Tibetan Buddhism, this incredibly vibrant, rich Buddhist society and culture that seemed to imbue those who you know were exposed to it and trained in it with this real depth of of of practice and a kind of dignity and a sense of responsibility. Um and it just when I think of like someone like like Lama Zooprim Bashia or Ribishe, this total commitment to what they're doing as a Buddhist practitioner. Whereas I find for you know those others, it's like for myself and I think many, many who've trained, you know, in Buddhism in in the kind of in in exile in India, not that I'm in exile, but as in Western culture, there's just a lot more of like, well, one foot is in and one foot is out, a bit like, yeah. But I think one you ask, you know, what's hopeful is there are a lot of really impressive young lamas, you know, the reincarnation of Sarkhan Sensor Meshe, the reincarnation of Sangra Meshe, um, the reincarnation of other lamas I've met that show they are, they they they look to have like they have exceptional qualities, you know. And they're div they're developing those qualities and revealing kind of the fruits of that practice in in the context of contemporary world and contemporary life and culture. And I think that's that's one um source of hope. But I think it's a mistake to put too much hope and too much expectation on a group of individuals. The West is at the peak of like technological development, availability of information, widespread affluence, and not only the West. I mean, the the world is is more affluent now. There's less people in poverty now than at any time in the history of humanity, and more people have access to education and ideas. I mean, you can you can access any you know any work of literature or art or idea or music on any corner of the world in an instant now with the internet. It's just it's just it provides incredible possibility and opportunity. And then also in in terms of, you know, as a Westerner, looking at Western culture, meeting these wisdom traditions from the East, you know, whether it's Taoism, Confucianism, Hindu, Hinduism, you know, practices, uh physical practices of yoga, ideas about medicine and diet, but also as one of those major wisdom traditions of Buddhism, you know, and the practice of meditation. There's brilliant thinkers in in Western, in the tradition of Western philosophy, but yet as you know, as you look from the time of Socrates till now, the practice of Western philosophy becomes less and less and less and less relevant to an individual person's happiness and well-being, and more abstract, right? And I kind of I mean, why why is that? Why did it take that direction? Um and also there's so many of that seem to have ended in misery, which is you don't see that in Asian culture. In Asian culture, philosophy has always been combined with spiritual practice, and as a big part of that, meditation. And I think that's one big thing was missing from um from the development of philosophy in the West is yes, this analytical side of the mind is extremely developed, but then an ethical basis, like, well, what do we use that for? It kind of lost the focus of how to have an ethical and good life. But also it wasn't combined with this exploration of the potential of the mind itself. What is the mind? What's the potential of our mind? And I think that has a lot to do with the rise of scientific materialism with material science. But you find that's one thing I find beautiful in the Buddhism and the other Eastern traditions is this, you know, this looking at just learning to focus, generate mental focus, and then thereby unpacking these different capabilities of of the mind, and then how to use the mind in a positive and constructive way that you don't find in in the West. So when you combine these kind of unique um understanding of the mind, the ability of the mind to discriminate between destructive versus constructive and positive emotions, together with Western like ingenuity and the leisure that affluence provides, the leisure time, and the dissatisfaction that contemporary life brings to so many people. Like it could really be an explosion of spiritual development and well-being and living in harmony with our environment when you think about all through the ecology crisis that we've never seen before. It's kind of like we're either heading towards a big disaster or just like an incredible new golden age.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Yeah. So so I guess you'd say that the case for optimism is that like there are many, many things going off the rails in culture right now. But the case for optimism is that we have this combination of incredible material development, which really has brought the vast majority of humanity out of severe poverty, even in my lifetime, you know, from like 40 percent extreme poverty to eight percent. Combined with more the potential for inner development, right? Because we certainly don't see uh a very, very wide adoption of, you know, healthy mental practices among people today. But it's that they're available, right? That they're actually that we have the knowledge, we have teachers spread out, you know, sprinkled all over the planet, and that there's so much capacity. We call it Buddha nature in Buddhism, right, or fundamental goodness. But is that your case for optimism? It's just that the seeds are there. It's kind of like the seeds and the water, maybe brought together in a way that hasn't been possible before.
SPEAKER_02But I think not only the seeds and the water and there's the soil is if you think the soil is like suffering, right? And then the seeds are potential for infinite happiness. The water is kind of, you could think of, I don't know, like the access to teachings. But I also see a lot of sprouts. Yes. I mean, there's a lot of hopeful sprouts. For example, one thing I find very hopeful that I've just seen in the last five years is like sports stars using mental health as a reason to step back from competition. My parents are both mental health professionals, and one um I know one displeasure, especially my father would voice when I was growing up, is like how mental because his father would say, Oh, you're a head shrink, and kind of be dismissive and condescending towards the mental health profession as a whole. I think that was probably a widespread attitude, like 30, 50 years ago. Like when I grew up, you know, the divorce was just like a big stigma. A child's parents were divorced, it's like you just didn't talk about it to them. Whereas now it's like it's accepted. It's like, yeah, sometimes things don't work out. It's better we just go our separate ways. Or or interracial marriage. Like when I was really, you know, young too, and in maybe elementary high school, that was also like, you know, in the communities I was part of, it was like really kind of oh, you it's kind of a skeleton in the closet. No, whereas now it's fully embraced and accepted. You can see our societies are changing in very positive ways. And then also meditation is just much more of a mainstream thing. So I think there's much more awareness and acceptance that mental health is an important thing. And then also the whole advent of positive psychology. When I was going to college, you know, I was totally not interested in mental health because my parents did that and they didn't seem very happy, right? Whereas I had friends in psychology classes and either I hear they're complaining, it's all about mental illness. That's all you study. Whereas now there's the whole field of positive psychology, where then the whole lot of study about how to have just maintain a happy, happy state of mind, have a happy life. And that's very encouraging, right? So I think all of those are just really good signs that our culture is growing in very positive ways around these different ideas of like, how can we have a better life?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Ross Powell Well, that's hopeful. Anything else you'd say to be people are quite pessimistic these days, right? You know, it's a big part of why I do this now with my life, the podcast, is to try to offer some concrete hope. But um anything else for people who are feeling despair about the the world situation, the environment, um, the rise of fascism and right-wing ideologies, things like that.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Well, you know, one thing that comes to mind immediately is like to be aware of negativity bias. Because it's a huge thing. This is one big I'm very grateful to Stephen Pinker for writing about it, but many other people write about it. But it really helps to be aware of, you know, this propensity we have to, when one bad thing happens, to remember that. We're five times more likely to remember that and that have an impact than when one good thing happens. So we have to make an effort to counteract our natural disposition to be aware of danger as a way to protect ourselves and and and for negative information to take an outsized place in our worldview. And also be aware of, you know, because those who want our attention, like social media companies or news outlets or advertisers, they use that to try to stoke fear, no, so that we give our attention to those things that we think might protect us from the fear. Be aware of that negativity bias and then try to counteract that with positivity. No, look at all the good things that are happening in the world. Like those things don't make the headlines. Every day, some thousands of people come out of poverty, you know. There's new uh remedies to illness and disease being discovered every day. But those things don't make the headlines. I find it really helpful to keep keep track of what's going on in science because there's so many good things. Or look at you know what's happening like in different UN projects or different charitable organizations around the there's tons of really good things happening in our local communities or at the global scale that we just don't know about because it's not in the headlines.
SPEAKER_00Well, Casey Luxalks, I have to admit, you are one of the reasons I feel optimistic about the future, you know, getting to know you. It's almost like you came out of nowhere, even though for you, obviously, it took you whatever, 25 years. But you know, all of a sudden I met you just a few months ago, and I thought, oh wow, an American Guiche. So optimistic and energetic and enthusiastic. So I'm looking forward to you know the rest of your life of teachings and sharing the Dharma in this way that's you know intermixed with you know Western culture. Thanks for taking the time to speak with me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you, Scott. It's been a pleasure meeting, and uh yeah, I hope there's some benefit.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for joining me in this conversation with Geshe Tenzen Lekzok. Geshe Lek Sok leads an active teaching schedule at a number of California Buddha centers, which anyone can join online. If you'd like to take part in one of his classes, you can find links to these centers at how to train a happymind.org. You can also discover guided analytical meditations there, hundreds of past episodes of the podcast, and information about the Train a Happy Mind community that meets every Sunday morning to talk and meditate together. How to Train a Happy Mind is a nonprofit project of the Skeptics Path to Enlightenment. The podcast is offered freely and without ads, thanks to the support of listeners like you. Thanks to Isabella Assabel for marketing and production on this episode. We wish you a wonderful day.