{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":0.03,"endTime":3.48,"body":"Chefs Without"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":0.03,"endTime":3.48,"body":"Restaurants Episode 77 with"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3.9,"endTime":4.98,"body":"Michael Twitty"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":5.58,"endTime":8.97,"body":"as African"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":5.58,"endTime":8.97,"body":"Americans sort of like got"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":8.97,"endTime":13.26,"body":"further and further away from"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":8.97,"endTime":13.26,"body":"the Jim Crow South, the slavery"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":13.26,"endTime":19.29,"body":"south, segregated south. There"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":13.26,"endTime":19.29,"body":"was also this absolute severance"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":20.13,"endTime":25.41,"body":"was certain foods for example,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":20.13,"endTime":25.41,"body":"everybody else's like lima"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":25.41,"endTime":28.47,"body":"beans, butter beans, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":25.41,"endTime":28.47,"body":"just like, oh my god Get away"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":28.47,"endTime":32.61,"body":"from me. And you know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":28.47,"endTime":32.61,"body":"know what it means to have a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":32.61,"endTime":36.54,"body":"satisfying meal of corn bread"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":32.61,"endTime":36.54,"body":"and beans. And we didn't have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":36.54,"endTime":39.33,"body":"keep we'd have to eat that Ah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":36.54,"endTime":39.33,"body":"man, we'd have to eat it all. My"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":39.33,"endTime":42.6,"body":"grandmother would make chitlins"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":39.33,"endTime":42.6,"body":"from my uncle and from my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":43.05,"endTime":46.77,"body":"grandfather. But she cuts her"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":43.05,"endTime":46.77,"body":"way through and she detested it."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":46.8,"endTime":49.56,"body":"I mean, there was no scrapple in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":46.8,"endTime":49.56,"body":"my house. There was no pig feet"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":49.56,"endTime":51.81,"body":"in my house. It was none other"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":49.56,"endTime":51.81,"body":"than that. No, no, no, no, no,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":51.81,"endTime":55.47,"body":"no, no. And that was because we"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":51.81,"endTime":55.47,"body":"simply decided that was no"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":55.47,"endTime":56.94,"body":"longer going to be part of our"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":55.47,"endTime":56.94,"body":"repertoire."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":57.119,"endTime":59.429,"body":"This is the Chefs"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":57.119,"endTime":59.429,"body":"Without Restaurants podcast with"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":59.429,"endTime":62.759,"body":"your host, Chris Spear. Each"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":59.429,"endTime":62.759,"body":"week I'll be speaking with food"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":62.759,"endTime":65.879,"body":"entrepreneurs and people in the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":62.759,"endTime":65.879,"body":"culinary industry. If you're"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":65.879,"endTime":68.639,"body":"interested in learning more"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":65.879,"endTime":68.639,"body":"about our organization dedicated"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":68.639,"endTime":71.639,"body":"to helping people build and grow"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":68.639,"endTime":71.639,"body":"their food businesses. look us"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":71.639,"endTime":75.959,"body":"up on the web at Chefs Without"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":71.639,"endTime":75.959,"body":"restaurants.com and org, and on"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":75.959,"endTime":78.989,"body":"Facebook, Instagram and Twitter"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":75.959,"endTime":78.989,"body":"at Chefs Without Restaurants."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":79.409,"endTime":80.969,"body":"Now, enjoy the show."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":88.44,"endTime":90.87,"body":"Welcome to the season two"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":88.44,"endTime":90.87,"body":"premiere of the Chefs Without"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":90.87,"endTime":95.1,"body":"Restaurants podcast. I'm your"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":90.87,"endTime":95.1,"body":"host Chris Spear. On the show. I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":95.1,"endTime":97.86,"body":"have conversations with culinary"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":95.1,"endTime":97.86,"body":"entrepreneurs and people in the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":97.86,"endTime":100.65,"body":"food and beverage industry who"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":97.86,"endTime":100.65,"body":"took a different route. They're"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":100.65,"endTime":104.13,"body":"caterers, research chefs,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":100.65,"endTime":104.13,"body":"personal chefs, cookbook"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":104.13,"endTime":108.45,"body":"authors, food truckers, farmers,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":104.13,"endTime":108.45,"body":"cottage bakers and all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":108.45,"endTime":111.81,"body":"culinary renegades. I myself"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":108.45,"endTime":111.81,"body":"fall into the personal chef"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":111.81,"endTime":114.84,"body":"category as I started my own"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":111.81,"endTime":114.84,"body":"personal chef business perfect"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":114.84,"endTime":117.99,"body":"little bites 10 years ago. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":114.84,"endTime":117.99,"body":"while I started working in"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":117.99,"endTime":120.72,"body":"kitchens in the early 90s, I've"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":117.99,"endTime":120.72,"body":"literally never worked in a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":120.72,"endTime":124.2,"body":"restaurant unless you count"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":120.72,"endTime":124.2,"body":"Burger King. This week, I have"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":124.2,"endTime":127.56,"body":"Michael Twitty. He's a food"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":124.2,"endTime":127.56,"body":"writer, independent scholar,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":127.59,"endTime":130.35,"body":"culinary historian and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":127.59,"endTime":130.35,"body":"historical interpreter"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":130.44,"endTime":132.96,"body":"personally charged with"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":130.44,"endTime":132.96,"body":"preparing, preserving and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":132.96,"endTime":135.87,"body":"promoting African American"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":132.96,"endTime":135.87,"body":"foodways, and its parent"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":135.87,"endTime":139.53,"body":"traditions in Africa and her"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":135.87,"endTime":139.53,"body":"diaspora and its legacy and the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":139.53,"endTime":142.74,"body":"food culture of the American"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":139.53,"endTime":142.74,"body":"South. Michael is a Judaic"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":142.74,"endTime":145.56,"body":"Studies teacher from the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":142.74,"endTime":145.56,"body":"Washington DC area. And his"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":145.56,"endTime":148.98,"body":"interests include food culture,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":145.56,"endTime":148.98,"body":"food history, Jewish cultural"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":148.98,"endTime":152.64,"body":"issues, African American"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":148.98,"endTime":152.64,"body":"history, and cultural politics."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":153.15,"endTime":155.91,"body":"He started the blog"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":153.15,"endTime":155.91,"body":"Afroculinaria, just about 10"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":155.91,"endTime":159.78,"body":"years ag.His book, The Cooking"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":155.91,"endTime":159.78,"body":"Gene won the James Beard award"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":159.78,"endTime":163.95,"body":"in 2018 for Book of the Year."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":159.78,"endTime":163.95,"body":"I'm really excited to share this"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":163.95,"endTime":166.35,"body":"episode with you. I've been"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":163.95,"endTime":166.35,"body":"following Michael's work for a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":166.35,"endTime":168.48,"body":"number of years now and was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":166.35,"endTime":168.48,"body":"really glad that he took the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":168.48,"endTime":171.48,"body":"time to come on the show. I'd"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":168.48,"endTime":171.48,"body":"love it if you would subscribe"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":171.48,"endTime":174.57,"body":"to the show. And if you listen"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":171.48,"endTime":174.57,"body":"on Apple podcasts, a rating and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":174.57,"endTime":178.47,"body":"review would be really great."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":174.57,"endTime":178.47,"body":"And now, here's the show. Thanks"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":178.47,"endTime":180.42,"body":"so much for listening, and have"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":178.47,"endTime":180.42,"body":"a great week."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":180.9,"endTime":182.85,"body":"Hey, Michael, how's it going?"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":180.9,"endTime":182.85,"body":"Thanks for coming on the show."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":182.91,"endTime":184.2,"body":"I'm doing fine."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":182.91,"endTime":184.2,"body":"How are you?"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":184.41,"endTime":186.72,"body":"I'm great. I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":184.41,"endTime":186.72,"body":"really excited to talk to you. I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":186.72,"endTime":190.83,"body":"hope your weeks going well, or"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":186.72,"endTime":190.83,"body":"as good as it can be. These are"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":190.86,"endTime":192.42,"body":"some pretty weird times right"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":190.86,"endTime":192.42,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":192.63,"endTime":197.4,"body":"Yeah, Chris."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":192.63,"endTime":197.4,"body":"It's a time of shedding the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":197.4,"endTime":201.06,"body":"snakeskin I think, yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":197.4,"endTime":201.06,"body":"that's a good way to put it."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":201.39,"endTime":204.33,"body":"For our listeners"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":201.39,"endTime":204.33,"body":"who don't know who you are. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":204.36,"endTime":208.08,"body":"I think there probably aren't"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":204.36,"endTime":208.08,"body":"that many. I guess the best way"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":208.08,"endTime":212.16,"body":"is to say you're a culinary"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":208.08,"endTime":212.16,"body":"historian, and you have a great"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":212.16,"endTime":214.92,"body":"book that came out, what's that"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":212.16,"endTime":214.92,"body":"been like three years ago?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":215.23,"endTime":219.01,"body":"Yeah, with a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":215.23,"endTime":219.01,"body":"sort of a quick update the year"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":219.01,"endTime":222.67,"body":"following. And I think there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":219.01,"endTime":222.67,"body":"gonna be another update. Once it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":222.67,"endTime":229.09,"body":"hits five years. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":222.67,"endTime":229.09,"body":"TheCooking Gene won the James"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":229.09,"endTime":233.8,"body":"Beard award for Book of the Year"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":229.09,"endTime":233.8,"body":"in 2018, as well as Best Writing"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":233.83,"endTime":238.18,"body":"and I couldn't be more thrilled"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":233.83,"endTime":238.18,"body":"with that, because I was the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":238.18,"endTime":242.8,"body":"first black off black American"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":238.18,"endTime":242.8,"body":"author to win book of the year."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":243.19,"endTime":247.9,"body":"And I'm my first go as well. 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But"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":258.37,"endTime":261.34,"body":"while we're there Did, did you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":261.34,"endTime":265.0,"body":"think that this would be as well"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":261.34,"endTime":265.0,"body":"received as it was? Um,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":266.1,"endTime":271.86,"body":"I hoped I certainly hoped I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":266.1,"endTime":271.86,"body":"didn't know. And that's because,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":272.1,"endTime":275.82,"body":"you know, that was my first big"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":272.1,"endTime":275.82,"body":"book, and also through"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":275.82,"endTime":279.18,"body":"HarperCollins. So I had, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":275.82,"endTime":279.18,"body":"know, a big publisher behind me,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":279.18,"endTime":283.41,"body":"but I essentially had to sell"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":279.18,"endTime":283.41,"body":"that book, I essentially had to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":283.83,"endTime":286.98,"body":"market that book. And then of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":283.83,"endTime":286.98,"body":"course, it was the import of it,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":286.98,"endTime":289.86,"body":"which is different from"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":286.98,"endTime":289.86,"body":"marketing. You know, why is a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":289.86,"endTime":293.16,"body":"book important? Why is a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":289.86,"endTime":293.16,"body":"cookbook important? Why is a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":293.16,"endTime":297.57,"body":"memoir significant that's very"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":293.16,"endTime":297.57,"body":"different from its market value."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":298.59,"endTime":302.52,"body":"And so having to interact"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":298.59,"endTime":302.52,"body":"between those two spaces was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":302.52,"endTime":309.21,"body":"tough. But I didn't have any"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":302.52,"endTime":309.21,"body":"idea how well it would do. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":309.21,"endTime":314.1,"body":"certainly, you know, ego and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":309.21,"endTime":314.1,"body":"bravado, a great things, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":314.13,"endTime":317.76,"body":"they don't pay bills, you have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":314.13,"endTime":317.76,"body":"to really, you know, just for"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":317.76,"endTime":321.09,"body":"those people who really want to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":317.76,"endTime":321.09,"body":"do a book, you have to think of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":321.09,"endTime":325.77,"body":"this as a marathon, not as an"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":321.09,"endTime":325.77,"body":"instantaneous moment of fame or"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":325.77,"endTime":329.58,"body":"wealth, those things aren't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":325.77,"endTime":329.58,"body":"really there. But also, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":329.58,"endTime":332.37,"body":"know, I had to I had to tell"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":329.58,"endTime":332.37,"body":"people point blank, Chris, I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":332.37,"endTime":334.5,"body":"like, even on Twitter, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":332.37,"endTime":334.5,"body":"remember one person said to me"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":334.5,"endTime":338.85,"body":"that something to the effect of,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":334.5,"endTime":338.85,"body":"you know, don't market to us"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":338.85,"endTime":342.6,"body":"just say cool stuff, and we'll"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":338.85,"endTime":342.6,"body":"retweet it. 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I don't, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":393.36,"endTime":396.03,"body":"don't know. I've never been good"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":393.36,"endTime":396.03,"body":"at promotion or self promotion."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":396.03,"endTime":398.46,"body":"And that's been really hard for"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":396.03,"endTime":398.46,"body":"me. And then, you know, all"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":398.46,"endTime":402.39,"body":"these opinions start coming out."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":398.46,"endTime":402.39,"body":"And it's like listening to, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":402.39,"endTime":404.67,"body":"know, finding, I guess, the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":402.39,"endTime":404.67,"body":"place where the constructive"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":404.67,"endTime":407.01,"body":"criticism is, versus the people"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":404.67,"endTime":407.01,"body":"who don't even know me and just"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":407.01,"endTime":408.33,"body":"want to bring some hate."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":408.39,"endTime":411.42,"body":"Yes, yes. 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Oh,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":430.29,"endTime":435.12,"body":"how the mighty have fallen. like"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":430.29,"endTime":435.12,"body":"nobody, nobody is really that on"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":435.12,"endTime":438.93,"body":"top these days. And I say that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":435.12,"endTime":438.93,"body":"because those same publishers"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":438.93,"endTime":441.72,"body":"were just like, oh, you can have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":438.93,"endTime":441.72,"body":"this many social media"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":441.72,"endTime":448.11,"body":"followers. And back then it was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":441.72,"endTime":448.11,"body":"some crazy number, like, like a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":448.89,"endTime":457.74,"body":"900. And now it's like, 100,000."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":448.89,"endTime":457.74,"body":"Wow. Yeah, it went from 902,002,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":457.74,"endTime":463.92,"body":"to 2000, to 5000 to 15. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":457.74,"endTime":463.92,"body":"know, it's all part of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":463.92,"endTime":469.44,"body":"story. But I wanted to tell a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":463.92,"endTime":469.44,"body":"story that was unique that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":469.44,"endTime":474.54,"body":"talked about food. I talked"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":469.44,"endTime":474.54,"body":"about America's original sins."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":474.72,"endTime":480.66,"body":"And they talked about my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":474.72,"endTime":480.66,"body":"ancestors that talked about how,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":480.81,"endTime":484.8,"body":"you know, food and cultural"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":480.81,"endTime":484.8,"body":"politics interact. And it's,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":484.8,"endTime":486.87,"body":"it's something that's a project"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":484.8,"endTime":486.87,"body":"that's gonna stay with me the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":486.87,"endTime":489.69,"body":"cookie is gonna be with me a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":486.87,"endTime":489.69,"body":"very, till the day I had to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":489.69,"endTime":490.47,"body":"leave this earth."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":491.25,"endTime":493.95,"body":"Well, let's back up"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":491.25,"endTime":493.95,"body":"a little bit. Who are you? What"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":493.95,"endTime":497.01,"body":"was your upbringing, like and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":493.95,"endTime":497.01,"body":"your relationship with food? How"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":497.01,"endTime":499.47,"body":"did you get into food and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":497.01,"endTime":499.47,"body":"cooking?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":500.13,"endTime":505.44,"body":"Well, I'm, I am"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":500.13,"endTime":505.44,"body":"43 years old. I was born in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":505.44,"endTime":509.52,"body":"Washington, DC. I know that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":505.44,"endTime":509.52,"body":"there are people who have very"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":509.52,"endTime":514.14,"body":"specific feelings about what"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":509.52,"endTime":514.14,"body":"that means. But I stressed in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":514.14,"endTime":521.25,"body":"the book and I'm stressing here"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":514.14,"endTime":521.25,"body":"that Washington for especially"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":521.25,"endTime":526.35,"body":"for black folks, who are"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":521.25,"endTime":526.35,"body":"Washingtonians and adjacent was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":526.35,"endTime":532.68,"body":"never a Northeastern city. It"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":526.35,"endTime":532.68,"body":"was an upper South border, South"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":532.68,"endTime":539.04,"body":"City that was segregated. My"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":532.68,"endTime":539.04,"body":"father was born in DC over 80,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":539.1,"endTime":545.28,"body":"some years ago, and a thoroughly"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":539.1,"endTime":545.28,"body":"segregated city. And my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":545.28,"endTime":547.77,"body":"grandfather told me has told me"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":545.28,"endTime":547.77,"body":"multiple times that my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":547.77,"endTime":551.58,"body":"grandfather Blissett memory,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":547.77,"endTime":551.58,"body":"would talk about how like the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":551.58,"endTime":554.16,"body":"minute you crossed over into"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":551.58,"endTime":554.16,"body":"Maryland, and then you crossed"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":554.16,"endTime":558.36,"body":"over into Virginia, you had to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":554.16,"endTime":558.36,"body":"change your tone, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":558.36,"endTime":562.53,"body":"black Dc, You were safe. And so"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":558.36,"endTime":562.53,"body":"black DC really shaped a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":562.53,"endTime":568.65,"body":"my my origin story, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":562.53,"endTime":568.65,"body":"food from the Great Migration a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":568.65,"endTime":571.68,"body":"lot. You know, we weren't it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":568.65,"endTime":571.68,"body":"wasn't really up north either."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":572.4,"endTime":575.43,"body":"As a weird place to be DC and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":572.4,"endTime":575.43,"body":"Baltimore were never really"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":575.43,"endTime":579.99,"body":"like, the deep, they were never"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":575.43,"endTime":579.99,"body":"the deep south and they were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":579.99,"endTime":583.26,"body":"never up north. And I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":579.99,"endTime":583.26,"body":"that's a that's a very"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":583.26,"endTime":587.4,"body":"particular culture that people"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":583.26,"endTime":587.4,"body":"need to be very aware of there."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":587.4,"endTime":591.6,"body":"There were quite a number of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":587.4,"endTime":591.6,"body":"cities and areas like that. That"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":591.6,"endTime":595.05,"body":"was sort of sitting in not even"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":591.6,"endTime":595.05,"body":"an in between space, but it like"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":595.05,"endTime":597.93,"body":"almost like a wall. And a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":595.05,"endTime":597.93,"body":"those folks who did come to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":597.93,"endTime":601.62,"body":"those communities who were not"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":597.93,"endTime":601.62,"body":"indigenous Who are from off, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":601.62,"endTime":606.54,"body":"know, came from nearby."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":601.62,"endTime":606.54,"body":"Tidewater, Maryland, Virginia,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":607.59,"endTime":611.04,"body":"the eastern Carolina, South"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":607.59,"endTime":611.04,"body":"Carolina, North Carolina,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":611.43,"endTime":614.94,"body":"Virginia, West Virginia,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":611.43,"endTime":614.94,"body":"Maryland, Delaware, the rural"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":614.94,"endTime":618.78,"body":"areas of those places, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":614.94,"endTime":618.78,"body":"tobacco growing oyster, raising"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":619.38,"endTime":624.0,"body":"all that fed into, you know who"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":619.38,"endTime":624.0,"body":"we were, I didn't know that. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":624.0,"endTime":628.29,"body":"then on my mom's side, were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":624.0,"endTime":628.29,"body":"folks who escaped the rust belt."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":629.19,"endTime":632.16,"body":"My grandfather and grandmother"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":629.19,"endTime":632.16,"body":"bus and memory my mom's were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":632.16,"endTime":636.42,"body":"born in Alabama, I grew up with"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":632.16,"endTime":636.42,"body":"them. And they went to Ohio my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":636.42,"endTime":640.8,"body":"way everybody else did. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":636.42,"endTime":640.8,"body":"know, you went straight up Ohio."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":641.22,"endTime":646.02,"body":"They were they were Illinois,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":641.22,"endTime":646.02,"body":"you know, they were basically"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":646.02,"endTime":651.21,"body":"spread out from Pittsburgh, to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":646.02,"endTime":651.21,"body":"Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":651.78,"endTime":656.7,"body":"Akron to Chicago to Milwaukee."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":651.78,"endTime":656.7,"body":"That was the central South"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":656.7,"endTime":660.45,"body":"people. And so what people need"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":656.7,"endTime":660.45,"body":"to understand is all those food"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":660.45,"endTime":664.2,"body":"traditions fed into the way I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":660.45,"endTime":664.2,"body":"grew up, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":664.2,"endTime":666.24,"body":"grandmother was an excellent"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":664.2,"endTime":666.24,"body":"cook. My mother was an"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":666.24,"endTime":669.57,"body":"outstanding cook. There were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":666.24,"endTime":669.57,"body":"little bits and impulses from"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":669.57,"endTime":674.01,"body":"the European ethnic communities"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":669.57,"endTime":674.01,"body":"that they live next to in Ohio."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":674.55,"endTime":682.41,"body":"Um, there were parts of 1950s"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":674.55,"endTime":682.41,"body":"cooking to 1970s cooking"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":682.41,"endTime":685.44,"body":"definitely. And because I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":682.41,"endTime":685.44,"body":"born the late 70s, so all of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":685.44,"endTime":687.78,"body":"that, you know, people forget"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":685.44,"endTime":687.78,"body":"those three generations before"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":687.78,"endTime":691.77,"body":"them really do impact how you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":687.78,"endTime":691.77,"body":"eat, what you eat, how you eat."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":692.58,"endTime":696.69,"body":"I did not grew up with what I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":692.58,"endTime":696.69,"body":"call funky eating. You know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":696.69,"endTime":699.0,"body":"that just wasn't I mean, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":696.69,"endTime":699.0,"body":"that and that's another part of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":699.0,"endTime":703.74,"body":"the story is that I think people"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":699.0,"endTime":703.74,"body":"need to know that, as African"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":703.74,"endTime":707.82,"body":"Americans could have sort of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":703.74,"endTime":707.82,"body":"like, got further and further"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":707.82,"endTime":713.28,"body":"away from, you know, the Jim"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":707.82,"endTime":713.28,"body":"Crow, south of slavery south,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":713.58,"endTime":718.77,"body":"the surrogate itself, there was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":713.58,"endTime":718.77,"body":"also this absolute severance"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":719.61,"endTime":724.23,"body":"with certain foods, for example,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":719.61,"endTime":724.23,"body":"everybody else was like, Huh,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":724.56,"endTime":727.77,"body":"lima beans, butter beans, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":724.56,"endTime":727.77,"body":"I'm just like, Oh, my God, get"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":727.77,"endTime":732.51,"body":"away from me. Um, and you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":727.77,"endTime":732.51,"body":"I don't know what it means to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":732.51,"endTime":737.1,"body":"have a satisfying meal of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":732.51,"endTime":737.1,"body":"cornbread and beans. We didn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":737.1,"endTime":739.38,"body":"have eat, we'd have to eat that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":737.1,"endTime":739.38,"body":"ash, man, we'd have to eat it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":739.38,"endTime":742.95,"body":"all. My grandmother would make"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":739.38,"endTime":742.95,"body":"chitlins from my uncle and from"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":742.95,"endTime":747.48,"body":"my grandfather. But she cuts her"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":742.95,"endTime":747.48,"body":"way through and she detested it."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":747.54,"endTime":750.3,"body":"I mean, there was no scrapple in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":747.54,"endTime":750.3,"body":"my house. There was no pig feet"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":750.3,"endTime":752.7,"body":"in my house. It was none other"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":750.3,"endTime":752.7,"body":"than that. No, no, no, no, no,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":752.7,"endTime":756.18,"body":"no, no, no. And that was because"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":752.7,"endTime":756.18,"body":"we simply decided that was no"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":756.18,"endTime":757.68,"body":"longer going to be part of our"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":756.18,"endTime":757.68,"body":"repertoire."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":758.28,"endTime":760.92,"body":"Yeah, you even said"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":758.28,"endTime":760.92,"body":"in the book that you didn't like"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":760.92,"endTime":766.14,"body":"soul food at all growing up."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":760.92,"endTime":766.14,"body":"Which I mean, I am from the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":766.14,"endTime":768.75,"body":"Boston area. So I didn't grow up"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":766.14,"endTime":768.75,"body":"with any of that. But now I live"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":768.75,"endTime":773.07,"body":"in Maryland, and my father in"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":768.75,"endTime":773.07,"body":"law was born and raised in DC."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":773.37,"endTime":776.61,"body":"And that's all the stuff that he"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":773.37,"endTime":776.61,"body":"loves. He's a white man. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":776.61,"endTime":779.61,"body":"it's funny, like, he's just"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":776.61,"endTime":779.61,"body":"like, yeah, go to the store and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":779.61,"endTime":782.94,"body":"pick up some pig's feet next"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":779.61,"endTime":782.94,"body":"time you're there, like, so, my"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":782.97,"endTime":786.93,"body":"eating has changed drastically"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":782.97,"endTime":786.93,"body":"since I moved down here."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":787.41,"endTime":788.28,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":789.33,"endTime":792.45,"body":"Because when I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":789.33,"endTime":792.45,"body":"was little, it was it was also"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":792.45,"endTime":799.26,"body":"the era of the booming of fast"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":792.45,"endTime":799.26,"body":"food, and convenience, food in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":799.26,"endTime":803.46,"body":"various forms. I mean, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":799.26,"endTime":803.46,"body":"I'm from the generation where"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":803.46,"endTime":808.83,"body":"the commercials had elmers glue"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":803.46,"endTime":808.83,"body":"to look like milk. Everything"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":808.83,"endTime":811.29,"body":"looks stylistic, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":808.83,"endTime":811.29,"body":"aesthetically pleasing and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":811.29,"endTime":816.33,"body":"important and there and present."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":811.29,"endTime":816.33,"body":"And it just wasn't the same. We"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":816.33,"endTime":820.95,"body":"hit bones in our pockets and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":816.33,"endTime":820.95,"body":"skin skin and, and the cartilage"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":820.98,"endTime":823.53,"body":"and you said was just like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":820.98,"endTime":823.53,"body":"there was no hiding from the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":823.53,"endTime":828.51,"body":"fact that you were engaging with"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":823.53,"endTime":828.51,"body":"death. And there was a certain"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":828.51,"endTime":831.48,"body":"smell and there was a certain"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":828.51,"endTime":831.48,"body":"look, and there was a certain"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":831.48,"endTime":836.43,"body":"tenor. And my father used to eat"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":831.48,"endTime":836.43,"body":"to play with chitlins like, like"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":836.43,"endTime":840.66,"body":"kids eat pizza, for God's sakes."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":836.43,"endTime":840.66,"body":"And he did it in the most, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":840.66,"endTime":843.45,"body":"know, performative,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":840.66,"endTime":843.45,"body":"demonstrative, grotesque way,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":843.93,"endTime":848.31,"body":"especially at me because he knew"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":843.93,"endTime":848.31,"body":"I just hated chitlins. But, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":848.31,"endTime":851.1,"body":"know, I kind of got out of that."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":848.31,"endTime":851.1,"body":"I mean, I ate fried chicken, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":851.1,"endTime":854.7,"body":"ate, you know, biscuits, I ate"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":851.1,"endTime":854.7,"body":"all that stuff. And I know, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":854.7,"endTime":858.33,"body":"especially my grandmother and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":854.7,"endTime":858.33,"body":"mothers, you know, but to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":858.33,"endTime":864.57,"body":"real with you. I like, got over"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":858.33,"endTime":864.57,"body":"that because my mother and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":864.57,"endTime":868.29,"body":"grandmother and father and other"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":864.57,"endTime":868.29,"body":"people had me cook with them."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":868.32,"endTime":871.05,"body":"And it gave me a sense of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":868.32,"endTime":871.05,"body":"ownership. I like cooking"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":871.05,"endTime":877.5,"body":"because it was it I could make a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":871.05,"endTime":877.5,"body":"mess. I like making a mess. to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":877.5,"endTime":882.09,"body":"the to the to the consternation"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":877.5,"endTime":882.09,"body":"of my of my mom, a blessing"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":882.09,"endTime":886.95,"body":"memory. And it just grew from"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":882.09,"endTime":886.95,"body":"there. And I and I and I had a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":886.95,"endTime":889.62,"body":"lot of black pride in my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":886.95,"endTime":889.62,"body":"household. I mean, someone said"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":889.62,"endTime":892.83,"body":"something really nasty on"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":889.62,"endTime":892.83,"body":"Twitter about me like saying, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":892.83,"endTime":897.48,"body":"just just you know, amplifies"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":892.83,"endTime":897.48,"body":"the the anti blackness he grew"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":897.48,"endTime":900.96,"body":"up in. I didn't grow up in any"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":897.48,"endTime":900.96,"body":"blackness. With a light skinned"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":901.02,"endTime":904.86,"body":"grandmother, who was actually"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":901.02,"endTime":904.86,"body":"quite, you know, you would have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":904.86,"endTime":909.93,"body":"thought my grandmother was born"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":904.86,"endTime":909.93,"body":"was was married to the mother in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":909.93,"endTime":913.38,"body":"the Congo, the way she was so"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":909.93,"endTime":913.38,"body":"proud of being black. And you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":913.38,"endTime":915.99,"body":"know, it's that kind of thing"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":913.38,"endTime":915.99,"body":"that people just don't get is"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":915.99,"endTime":921.06,"body":"that being vulnerable, being"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":915.99,"endTime":921.06,"body":"open about your food story can"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":921.06,"endTime":925.53,"body":"also open you up to people who"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":921.06,"endTime":925.53,"body":"don't really want those stories"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":925.53,"endTime":926.13,"body":"to be told."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":926.52,"endTime":929.31,"body":"I think that's the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":926.52,"endTime":929.31,"body":"hardest part is a man. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":929.31,"endTime":932.25,"body":"I, I just remember the very"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":929.31,"endTime":932.25,"body":"first time I had anything"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":932.25,"endTime":935.28,"body":"published on the internet that"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":932.25,"endTime":935.28,"body":"was in an external publication"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":935.28,"endTime":938.25,"body":"and how proud I was, and the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":935.28,"endTime":938.25,"body":"very first comment was, like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":938.25,"endTime":940.83,"body":"some troll who was horribly"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":938.25,"endTime":940.83,"body":"rude. And it's just like, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":940.83,"endTime":943.86,"body":"don't understand people like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":940.83,"endTime":943.86,"body":"inherently, is this how people"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":943.86,"endTime":948.15,"body":"actually are. I know, you've"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":943.86,"endTime":948.15,"body":"gotten a lot of hate. I've seen"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":948.15,"endTime":951.51,"body":"some stuff over the years, and I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":948.15,"endTime":951.51,"body":"just can't imagine how much it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":951.51,"endTime":954.57,"body":"coming at you kind of from all"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":951.51,"endTime":954.57,"body":"sides at times."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":955.17,"endTime":959.01,"body":"Because, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":955.17,"endTime":959.01,"body":"know, one, one particular vibe I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":959.01,"endTime":965.43,"body":"get is, how can you be black?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":959.01,"endTime":965.43,"body":"And, and cook on plantations do"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":965.43,"endTime":968.67,"body":"historical interpretive work?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":965.43,"endTime":968.67,"body":"That, you know, you're just"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":968.67,"endTime":972.66,"body":"showing like people we want to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":968.67,"endTime":972.66,"body":"be slaves again? No, I'm doing a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":972.66,"endTime":978.03,"body":"job. And by the way, when, when"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":972.66,"endTime":978.03,"body":"you or your relatives come to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":978.03,"endTime":981.75,"body":"Williamsburg, or another site,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":978.03,"endTime":981.75,"body":"and let's say, God forbid, there"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":981.75,"endTime":984.6,"body":"were no black interpreters. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":981.75,"endTime":984.6,"body":"the history was never from the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":984.6,"endTime":988.59,"body":"black perspective. You'd be"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":984.6,"endTime":988.59,"body":"complaining about that, too. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":988.59,"endTime":991.71,"body":"they don't see it that way. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":988.59,"endTime":991.71,"body":"mean, they literally have these"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":991.71,"endTime":995.61,"body":"fantasies, Chris, it's so"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":991.71,"endTime":995.61,"body":"unfortunate. These fantasies of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":995.61,"endTime":998.22,"body":"me doing some shuck and jive"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":995.61,"endTime":998.22,"body":"grandchildren for the white"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":998.22,"endTime":1001.31,"body":"folks. And I'm just like, that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":998.22,"endTime":1001.31,"body":"not the that's not the point."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1002.09,"endTime":1004.61,"body":"And then some people are like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1002.09,"endTime":1004.61,"body":"well, you're not really reaching"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1004.61,"endTime":1007.01,"body":"anybody. And I said, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1004.61,"endTime":1007.01,"body":"can't get out of my face. How"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1007.01,"endTime":1011.21,"body":"dare you. The bottom line is, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1007.01,"endTime":1011.21,"body":"have to be able to bring people"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1011.21,"endTime":1015.95,"body":"to the table, we have to have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1011.21,"endTime":1015.95,"body":"hard conversations over this"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1015.95,"endTime":1018.17,"body":"food, we have to really be"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1015.95,"endTime":1018.17,"body":"honest about where this food"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1018.17,"endTime":1022.88,"body":"comes from. And the politics of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1018.17,"endTime":1022.88,"body":"this food and how it's been used"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1022.88,"endTime":1026.57,"body":"to divide us, and how can we use"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1022.88,"endTime":1026.57,"body":"to bring us together. And that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1026.57,"endTime":1030.59,"body":"really what my aim is. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1026.57,"endTime":1030.59,"body":"beginning to become a lot wiser,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1031.04,"endTime":1035.09,"body":"and a lot more open about just"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1031.04,"endTime":1035.09,"body":"not focusing on those folks and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1035.09,"endTime":1040.46,"body":"focusing on what my real end is."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1035.09,"endTime":1040.46,"body":"And my real end is that the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1040.46,"endTime":1043.25,"body":"people who created this"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1040.46,"endTime":1043.25,"body":"incredible cuisine should have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1043.25,"endTime":1047.36,"body":"honored where it's due, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1043.25,"endTime":1047.36,"body":"respect where it's due. And that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1047.36,"endTime":1051.68,"body":"we should go forward into our"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1047.36,"endTime":1051.68,"body":"future being far more mindful of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1051.68,"endTime":1054.05,"body":"how we pass down our narrative"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1051.68,"endTime":1054.05,"body":"through food."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1054.62,"endTime":1057.95,"body":"So when did you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1054.62,"endTime":1057.95,"body":"really first start digging into"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1058.22,"endTime":1063.29,"body":"all of this, the real history of"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1058.22,"endTime":1063.29,"body":"both your family and African and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1063.29,"endTime":1064.46,"body":"African American cooking,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1064.91,"endTime":1068.63,"body":"when I was very"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1064.91,"endTime":1068.63,"body":"young, very young, I would say"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1068.63,"endTime":1073.55,"body":"probably, you know, by the time"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1068.63,"endTime":1073.55,"body":"I was in middle school,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1074.12,"endTime":1076.19,"body":"what triggered that"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1074.12,"endTime":1076.19,"body":"what made you want to start"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1076.22,"endTime":1076.82,"body":"doing that?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1077.75,"endTime":1079.61,"body":"I don't know, if"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1077.75,"endTime":1079.61,"body":"it was a trigger, I just think"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1079.61,"endTime":1083.12,"body":"that I just grew up in a space"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1079.61,"endTime":1083.12,"body":"where I loved history, I love"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1083.12,"endTime":1088.97,"body":"food. And I had people who are"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1083.12,"endTime":1088.97,"body":"willing to tell me a lot about"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1089.03,"endTime":1094.01,"body":"where they came from, what food"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1089.03,"endTime":1094.01,"body":"meant to them. I mean, I mean, a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1094.01,"endTime":1097.43,"body":"lot of the stories that we told"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1094.01,"endTime":1097.43,"body":"as a family were especially"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1097.43,"endTime":1101.45,"body":"salient when my my grandmother"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1097.43,"endTime":1101.45,"body":"would talk about, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1101.45,"endTime":1106.13,"body":"example, her grandmother making"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1101.45,"endTime":1106.13,"body":"sausage and hog killing time,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1106.67,"endTime":1110.06,"body":"and how she would, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1106.67,"endTime":1110.06,"body":"grow the seeds and red pepper to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1110.06,"endTime":1114.11,"body":"put in the sausage. And, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1110.06,"endTime":1114.11,"body":"know, no one made sauces like"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1114.11,"endTime":1117.98,"body":"her and all these other things."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1114.11,"endTime":1117.98,"body":"And so that my, my gears are"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1118.07,"endTime":1121.04,"body":"turning, I'm like, Well, how"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1118.07,"endTime":1121.04,"body":"does that work? What is Hall"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1121.04,"endTime":1123.8,"body":"killing time? You know, asking"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1121.04,"endTime":1123.8,"body":"those kind of questions, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1123.8,"endTime":1127.19,"body":"then doing the research and, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1123.8,"endTime":1127.19,"body":"know, I was I was not easy,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1127.22,"endTime":1130.34,"body":"because, you know, you would"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1127.22,"endTime":1130.34,"body":"think that everybody would like"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1130.37,"endTime":1133.94,"body":"incline themselves to help you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1130.37,"endTime":1133.94,"body":"navigate your journey. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1133.94,"endTime":1137.54,"body":"that's not how it worked. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1133.94,"endTime":1137.54,"body":"know, I remember going to the,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1137.63,"endTime":1142.64,"body":"to the to the bookstore in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1137.63,"endTime":1142.64,"body":"mall, and they had the whole"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1142.64,"endTime":1149.0,"body":"foxfire series. And so I had to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1142.64,"endTime":1149.0,"body":"teach myself at you know, 1314"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1149.66,"endTime":1152.87,"body":"what that was what it's about"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1149.66,"endTime":1152.87,"body":"without internet, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1152.87,"endTime":1157.7,"body":"kind of figuring it out on my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1152.87,"endTime":1157.7,"body":"own in trying to like, navigate"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1157.73,"endTime":1160.7,"body":"this this this huge food"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1157.73,"endTime":1160.7,"body":"heritage thing."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1161.12,"endTime":1162.65,"body":"Yeah, these kids"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1161.12,"endTime":1162.65,"body":"today don't know how to operate"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1162.65,"endTime":1166.16,"body":"without the internet. I'm 44 So"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1162.65,"endTime":1166.16,"body":"you and I similar age and you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1166.16,"endTime":1170.09,"body":"know, having to go to a library"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1166.16,"endTime":1170.09,"body":"and look for books, it was a lot"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1170.09,"endTime":1173.6,"body":"harder to do any kind of intense"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1170.09,"endTime":1173.6,"body":"research at that time hard"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1173.6,"endTime":1174.23,"body":"catalog"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1174.47,"endTime":1178.88,"body":"card catalog for"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1174.47,"endTime":1178.88,"body":"sure. So when did you start"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1178.88,"endTime":1183.11,"body":"doing the the cooking like at"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1178.88,"endTime":1183.11,"body":"Colonial Williamsburg When was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1183.11,"endTime":1183.56,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1183.98,"endTime":1185.99,"body":"So I'm an"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1183.98,"endTime":1185.99,"body":"itinerant so I've done it all"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1185.99,"endTime":1192.68,"body":"over the place. At first, it was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1185.99,"endTime":1192.68,"body":"very difficult. Because to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1192.68,"endTime":1198.5,"body":"honest with you, I thought you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1192.68,"endTime":1198.5,"body":"could just do like cooking so I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1198.5,"endTime":1204.41,"body":"would do these programs all"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1198.5,"endTime":1204.41,"body":"around the DC area DMV area. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1204.41,"endTime":1210.11,"body":"one day this uh this person I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1204.41,"endTime":1210.11,"body":"knew said to me, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1210.11,"endTime":1213.14,"body":"a great idea what you're doing."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1210.11,"endTime":1213.14,"body":"But you got to get the right the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1213.14,"endTime":1217.85,"body":"pots the right clothes, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1213.14,"endTime":1217.85,"body":"right this the right that and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1217.85,"endTime":1222.95,"body":"took the advice not personally I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1217.85,"endTime":1222.95,"body":"just like okay. All right how do"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1222.95,"endTime":1226.52,"body":"I do that so I started"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1222.95,"endTime":1226.52,"body":"researching heirloom vegetable"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1226.52,"endTime":1231.08,"body":"gardening, which I had never"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1226.52,"endTime":1231.08,"body":"heard of. And that led me down a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1231.08,"endTime":1234.5,"body":"wormhole this is this is a long"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1231.08,"endTime":1234.5,"body":"time ago, this is now we're now"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1234.5,"endTime":1240.71,"body":"talking about something like 20"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1234.5,"endTime":1240.71,"body":"years of doing this work. And so"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1240.71,"endTime":1245.93,"body":"then it was what the pots and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1240.71,"endTime":1245.93,"body":"didn't have any money. So that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1245.93,"endTime":1251.99,"body":"meant really slowly, one"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1245.93,"endTime":1251.99,"body":"skillet, that's far from"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1251.99,"endTime":1257.15,"body":"historic, but that was better"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1251.99,"endTime":1257.15,"body":"than, you know, not having a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1257.15,"endTime":1261.62,"body":"skillet at all, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1257.15,"endTime":1261.62,"body":"pseudo historic clothes versus"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1261.65,"endTime":1266.24,"body":"tailor made ones. So I really"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1261.65,"endTime":1266.24,"body":"had to build up a whole material"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1267.11,"endTime":1270.8,"body":"collection, you know, the tools,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1267.11,"endTime":1270.8,"body":"the utensils, the pots, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1270.8,"endTime":1274.34,"body":"pans, the things to go along"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1270.8,"endTime":1274.34,"body":"with those pots and pans things,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1274.34,"endTime":1277.64,"body":"you know, to at least make one"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1274.34,"endTime":1277.64,"body":"plate of food, you get a pewter"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1277.64,"endTime":1279.92,"body":"plate, they do this to do that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1277.64,"endTime":1279.92,"body":"you don't get the point. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1280.22,"endTime":1283.43,"body":"just building a whole"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1280.22,"endTime":1283.43,"body":"repertoire, and not being"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1283.43,"endTime":1288.71,"body":"institutional at it. Because"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1283.43,"endTime":1288.71,"body":"quite frankly, um, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1288.77,"endTime":1292.91,"body":"there were a lot of places out"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1288.77,"endTime":1292.91,"body":"there that, you know, they were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1292.91,"endTime":1295.28,"body":"telling little bits of the black"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1292.91,"endTime":1295.28,"body":"story, but they were completely"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1295.28,"endTime":1300.11,"body":"racist. And by racist, what I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1295.28,"endTime":1300.11,"body":"mean is, they didn't really"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1300.11,"endTime":1304.31,"body":"value the black voice. They"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1300.11,"endTime":1304.31,"body":"didn't think black people were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1304.31,"endTime":1309.56,"body":"educated enough, or they don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1304.31,"endTime":1309.56,"body":"want to hire us to do to tell"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1309.56,"endTime":1312.74,"body":"our own stories. So they were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1309.56,"endTime":1312.74,"body":"perfectly happy telling our"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1312.74,"endTime":1315.86,"body":"story without us. Which goes"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1312.74,"endTime":1315.86,"body":"back to my comment I made a few"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1315.86,"endTime":1319.13,"body":"minutes ago about how some of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1315.86,"endTime":1319.13,"body":"the younger generation of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1319.13,"endTime":1322.4,"body":"African American folks who"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1319.13,"endTime":1322.4,"body":"critique me without knowing"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1322.49,"endTime":1326.87,"body":"exactly what I do need to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1322.49,"endTime":1326.87,"body":"understand is because the you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1326.87,"endTime":1330.47,"body":"know, no one had to hire us. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1326.87,"endTime":1330.47,"body":"we were hired before to do these"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1330.47,"endTime":1335.15,"body":"jobs. We were silent. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1330.47,"endTime":1335.15,"body":"submissive. No, we were only we"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1335.15,"endTime":1337.28,"body":"were we of course, we were the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1335.15,"endTime":1337.28,"body":"coach, the the you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1337.49,"endTime":1339.23,"body":"drivers, the coach, of course,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1337.49,"endTime":1339.23,"body":"we were the cooks in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1339.23,"endTime":1342.53,"body":"kitchen. But I gotta tell you,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1339.23,"endTime":1342.53,"body":"those cooks in the kitchen back"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1342.53,"endTime":1346.88,"body":"in the day, in historical sites."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1342.53,"endTime":1346.88,"body":"You didn't, they didn't say"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1346.88,"endTime":1349.34,"body":"anything more than Hello,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1346.88,"endTime":1349.34,"body":"goodbye. Thank you in here,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1349.34,"endTime":1352.07,"body":"there's the bathroom. Because"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1349.34,"endTime":1352.07,"body":"those institutions did not want"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1352.07,"endTime":1355.37,"body":"them telling their stories,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1352.07,"endTime":1355.37,"body":"black people. Mm hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1355.88,"endTime":1358.76,"body":"So who was Creek"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1355.88,"endTime":1358.76,"body":"who creates those programs? Is"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1358.76,"endTime":1362.75,"body":"that whoever oversees each site?"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1358.76,"endTime":1362.75,"body":"like where are they getting"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1362.75,"endTime":1366.05,"body":"their information about how the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1362.75,"endTime":1366.05,"body":"historical interpreter should be"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1366.05,"endTime":1367.82,"body":"acting? Where's that coming"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1366.05,"endTime":1367.82,"body":"from?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.81,"endTime":1369.38,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1369.53,"endTime":1372.17,"body":"it's it's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1369.53,"endTime":1372.17,"body":"blend, and I'm a contract"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1372.56,"endTime":1376.04,"body":"contractor. So I'm, as an"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1372.56,"endTime":1376.04,"body":"itinerant, I make up my own"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1376.04,"endTime":1381.38,"body":"programs. I do my thing I've"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1376.04,"endTime":1381.38,"body":"been brought in because, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1381.38,"endTime":1386.75,"body":"know, I've created a niche arena"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1381.38,"endTime":1386.75,"body":"where I'm like, Okay, this is"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1386.75,"endTime":1390.02,"body":"what I do. This is why I do it."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1386.75,"endTime":1390.02,"body":"This is what we're doing."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1390.62,"endTime":1393.5,"body":"Because no one else does it. No"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1390.62,"endTime":1393.5,"body":"one else does this work? No one."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1394.19,"endTime":1398.12,"body":"It's strange to be in a plan of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1394.19,"endTime":1398.12,"body":"what seven plus billion people?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1398.93,"endTime":1402.77,"body":"And who do you know, who do you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1398.93,"endTime":1402.77,"body":"want to talk to about how, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1402.77,"endTime":1406.31,"body":"know, early African Americans"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1402.77,"endTime":1406.31,"body":"from the 17th to the 19th"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1406.31,"endTime":1411.35,"body":"centuries, cooked and ate and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1406.31,"endTime":1411.35,"body":"how they lived? And it's me and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1411.35,"endTime":1413.75,"body":"a couple other people. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1411.35,"endTime":1413.75,"body":"probably the only one who does"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1413.75,"endTime":1414.44,"body":"it full time."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1415.1,"endTime":1418.64,"body":"That's crazy. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1415.1,"endTime":1418.64,"body":"But good for being the one to do"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1418.64,"endTime":1420.92,"body":"it. I think that's fantastic."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1421.31,"endTime":1423.77,"body":"It's, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1421.31,"endTime":1423.77,"body":"hard. Because you know, at one,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1423.8,"endTime":1426.38,"body":"at some point, you look at"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1423.8,"endTime":1426.38,"body":"yourself and go, Well, how do I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1426.38,"endTime":1430.16,"body":"pass this on how to create a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1426.38,"endTime":1430.16,"body":"legacy? You know, we aren't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1430.16,"endTime":1432.86,"body":"forever and our ancestors"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1430.16,"endTime":1432.86,"body":"weren't forever. So how do we?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1433.19,"endTime":1436.52,"body":"How do we pass these stories on?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1433.19,"endTime":1436.52,"body":"How do we, you know, right now,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1436.52,"endTime":1439.4,"body":"that's a big part of my work in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1436.52,"endTime":1439.4,"body":"the cooking gene, to give"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1439.4,"endTime":1442.25,"body":"everybody as some of you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1439.4,"endTime":1442.25,"body":"it first started off as a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1442.25,"endTime":1445.64,"body":"southern discomfort tour. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1442.25,"endTime":1445.64,"body":"the southern discomfort tour was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1445.64,"endTime":1448.43,"body":"about me reclaiming memory,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1445.64,"endTime":1448.43,"body":"because I was starting to forget"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1448.43,"endTime":1451.25,"body":"some things. And I didn't want"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1448.43,"endTime":1451.25,"body":"to be one of those people who"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1451.25,"endTime":1455.21,"body":"were just like, yeah, I kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1451.25,"endTime":1455.21,"body":"got some ancestry from here, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1455.21,"endTime":1457.49,"body":"people who are from here, and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1455.21,"endTime":1457.49,"body":"don't know very much about it."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1458.24,"endTime":1463.04,"body":"You know, people smile, and they"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1458.24,"endTime":1463.04,"body":"shrug it off. And I thought that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1463.04,"endTime":1467.63,"body":"was not appropriate for me. As a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1463.04,"endTime":1467.63,"body":"historian. I think if you're a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1467.63,"endTime":1470.84,"body":"historian, you should know your"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1467.63,"endTime":1470.84,"body":"own history, your own person"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1470.84,"endTime":1473.72,"body":"where you know, where do you sit"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1470.84,"endTime":1473.72,"body":"in history? Where do you sit in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1473.72,"endTime":1477.95,"body":"terms of our cultural memory in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1473.72,"endTime":1477.95,"body":"terms of our material culture in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1477.95,"endTime":1483.08,"body":"terms of raccontare history? We"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1477.95,"endTime":1483.08,"body":"are both about the same age. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1483.38,"endTime":1488.36,"body":"for us, you know, to tell you,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1483.38,"endTime":1488.36,"body":"we were born to the world of TV"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1488.36,"endTime":1492.23,"body":"dinners. We were born into the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1488.36,"endTime":1492.23,"body":"microwave generation. We were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1492.23,"endTime":1496.28,"body":"the first generation we were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1492.23,"endTime":1496.28,"body":"when the microwave was was like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1496.43,"endTime":1500.0,"body":"like these little air fryers"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1496.43,"endTime":1500.0,"body":"now. Oh, yeah. Oh, my goodness."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1500.0,"endTime":1501.98,"body":"Yeah, let's kick rave."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1502.07,"endTime":1503.75,"body":"Did you have one of"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1502.07,"endTime":1503.75,"body":"those bacon cookers which is"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1503.75,"endTime":1506.99,"body":"like the tray with the slats and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1503.75,"endTime":1506.99,"body":"you just put bacon on it with a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1506.99,"endTime":1512.54,"body":"piece of paper over it? and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1506.99,"endTime":1512.54,"body":"microwave bacon, which is like"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1512.6,"endTime":1515.69,"body":"not good at all. I don't I don't"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1512.6,"endTime":1515.69,"body":"maybe they've made advances"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1515.69,"endTime":1518.51,"body":"since then. But I don't think"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1515.69,"endTime":1518.51,"body":"we've microwave bacon in like 30"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1518.51,"endTime":1519.02,"body":"years."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1519.05,"endTime":1523.28,"body":"No, but it was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1519.05,"endTime":1523.28,"body":"quick. And that we have the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1523.28,"endTime":1525.86,"body":"little Magic Chef microwave. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1523.28,"endTime":1525.86,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1525.89,"endTime":1527.6,"body":"yeah. And I was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1525.89,"endTime":1527.6,"body":"just thinking the other day,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1527.6,"endTime":1529.85,"body":"there was that line of frozen"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1527.6,"endTime":1529.85,"body":"dinners that was like"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1529.85,"endTime":1533.03,"body":"hamburgers, fries. And there was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1529.85,"endTime":1533.03,"body":"like milkshakes. And my friends"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1533.03,"endTime":1535.46,"body":"and I loved them. And you could"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1533.03,"endTime":1535.46,"body":"just like microwave, a hamburger"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1535.46,"endTime":1537.89,"body":"and the French fries. And I was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1535.46,"endTime":1537.89,"body":"like, Oh, we don't even have to"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1537.89,"endTime":1540.47,"body":"drive out to McDonald's. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1537.89,"endTime":1540.47,"body":"I was like, I couldn't drive"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1540.47,"endTime":1541.04,"body":"anywhere."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1541.31,"endTime":1544.82,"body":"Right? That's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1541.31,"endTime":1544.82,"body":"exactly it. And of course, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1544.82,"endTime":1550.04,"body":"the frozen pizza generation. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1544.82,"endTime":1550.04,"body":"I mean, knowing that now and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1550.04,"endTime":1555.68,"body":"knowing that the Generation Z"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1550.04,"endTime":1555.68,"body":"has, you know, plays with Legos"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1555.68,"endTime":1557.45,"body":"that are having organic smoothie"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1555.68,"endTime":1557.45,"body":"set."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1558.44,"endTime":1559.01,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1559.4,"endTime":1562.91,"body":"that's a that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1559.4,"endTime":1562.91,"body":"a, you know, as much as I do"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1562.91,"endTime":1569.18,"body":"love, culinary history of, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1562.91,"endTime":1569.18,"body":"know, the early America, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1569.18,"endTime":1574.13,"body":"colonial antebellum south, I may"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1569.18,"endTime":1574.13,"body":"be one of these good days, maybe"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1574.13,"endTime":1577.58,"body":"one of the good days, well, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1574.13,"endTime":1577.58,"body":"can still enjoy the afterglow of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1577.58,"endTime":1582.32,"body":"it, is to write about that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1577.58,"endTime":1582.32,"body":"transition. Because I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1582.32,"endTime":1585.92,"body":"people I think I'm forcing"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1582.32,"endTime":1585.92,"body":"people believe like, history is,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1586.25,"endTime":1590.06,"body":"for your ancestors of you, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1586.25,"endTime":1590.06,"body":"are in history, you are living"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1590.06,"endTime":1593.21,"body":"in history, every day that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1590.06,"endTime":1593.21,"body":"passes and doesn't occur again,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1593.21,"endTime":1599.12,"body":"which is every day makes us a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1593.21,"endTime":1599.12,"body":"part of history. And even things"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1599.12,"endTime":1602.15,"body":"we take for granted like our"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1599.12,"endTime":1602.15,"body":"like our sort of, like, ready"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1602.15,"endTime":1605.18,"body":"made cone, a world that we were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1602.15,"endTime":1605.18,"body":"born into, versus the world that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1605.18,"endTime":1609.59,"body":"we know, which is growing the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1605.18,"endTime":1609.59,"body":"food and read becoming"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1609.59,"endTime":1613.34,"body":"reacquainted with the past of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1609.59,"endTime":1613.34,"body":"the food, but also, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1613.37,"endTime":1616.64,"body":"being forward thinking about"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1613.37,"endTime":1616.64,"body":"food, taking old foods in new"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1616.64,"endTime":1619.88,"body":"ways and taking food in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1616.64,"endTime":1619.88,"body":"different directions. You know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1620.03,"endTime":1625.79,"body":"the glory of my life was to go"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1620.03,"endTime":1625.79,"body":"to stone barns. And when I was I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1625.79,"endTime":1627.68,"body":"didn't realize that the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1625.79,"endTime":1627.68,"body":"porcelain I was eating on was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1627.68,"endTime":1628.67,"body":"the bones of the cattle."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1629.48,"endTime":1630.62,"body":"Wow, that's really"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1629.48,"endTime":1630.62,"body":"cool."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1631.04,"endTime":1633.17,"body":"You know, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1631.04,"endTime":1633.17,"body":"kind of stuff. But that's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1633.17,"endTime":1637.1,"body":"world that I think you and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1633.17,"endTime":1637.1,"body":"never would have thought of when"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1637.1,"endTime":1639.2,"body":"we were little. No, we were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1637.1,"endTime":1639.2,"body":"younger."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1639.26,"endTime":1641.63,"body":"I didn't even think"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1639.26,"endTime":1641.63,"body":"of this stuff when I was 20. You"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1641.63,"endTime":1645.08,"body":"know, I went to culinary school,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1641.63,"endTime":1645.08,"body":"I graduated Johnson Wales in 98."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1645.14,"endTime":1648.68,"body":"And, like, I just wanted to cook"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1645.14,"endTime":1648.68,"body":"food. And now you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1648.68,"endTime":1651.71,"body":"a lot of discussions about food"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1648.68,"endTime":1651.71,"body":"and being political and all"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1651.71,"endTime":1654.98,"body":"this, I didn't even think about"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1651.71,"endTime":1654.98,"body":"that for so long. Like, I just"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1654.98,"endTime":1656.96,"body":"thought you just went to"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1654.98,"endTime":1656.96,"body":"culinary school, you could make"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1656.96,"endTime":1660.62,"body":"whatever, you know, I'm a white"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1656.96,"endTime":1660.62,"body":"guy from New England. And I was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1660.62,"endTime":1663.83,"body":"like, Oh, I kind of want to go"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1660.62,"endTime":1663.83,"body":"like opening a Cajun restaurant."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1663.83,"endTime":1666.68,"body":"Like I didn't even know what"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1663.83,"endTime":1666.68,"body":"that meant. I had never been to"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1666.71,"endTime":1669.29,"body":"New Orleans, like, I've never"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1666.71,"endTime":1669.29,"body":"even eaten Cajun food. I just"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1669.29,"endTime":1671.27,"body":"thought you could read some"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1669.29,"endTime":1671.27,"body":"cookbooks and make whatever the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1671.27,"endTime":1674.93,"body":"hell you wanted. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1671.27,"endTime":1674.93,"body":"just felt even at 21, I was very"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1674.93,"endTime":1678.32,"body":"naive. And it's, it's really"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1674.93,"endTime":1678.32,"body":"been an evolution over the past"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1678.32,"endTime":1679.67,"body":"20 years. You know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1680.09,"endTime":1683.75,"body":"I think what you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1680.09,"endTime":1683.75,"body":"just said is really impactful."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1684.65,"endTime":1687.29,"body":"And you're the only person who I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1684.65,"endTime":1687.29,"body":"said, who I've met who has"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1687.29,"endTime":1690.65,"body":"actually just blurted it out and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1687.29,"endTime":1690.65,"body":"been really honest about it. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1690.65,"endTime":1693.26,"body":"thought you could read a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1690.65,"endTime":1693.26,"body":"cookbook and just do whatever"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1693.26,"endTime":1698.12,"body":"cook, whatever. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1693.26,"endTime":1698.12,"body":"really, I mean, that really"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1698.12,"endTime":1703.28,"body":"applies to the way people look"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1698.12,"endTime":1703.28,"body":"at Black food. I think people"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1703.28,"endTime":1707.66,"body":"really believe anything. And it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1703.28,"endTime":1707.66,"body":"goes to, for what you said had"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1707.66,"endTime":1712.46,"body":"was totally, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1707.66,"endTime":1712.46,"body":"nonpartisan, non particular,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1712.46,"endTime":1715.64,"body":"which is like the idea that a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1712.46,"endTime":1715.64,"body":"cookbook is just a manual. It's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1715.64,"endTime":1718.7,"body":"not like a plumbing manual. If"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1715.64,"endTime":1718.7,"body":"you know how to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1718.79,"endTime":1721.85,"body":"Tinker, you're great. You're"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1718.79,"endTime":1721.85,"body":"fine. You're awesome. It's all"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1721.85,"endTime":1726.65,"body":"good. And I think with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1721.85,"endTime":1726.65,"body":"ethnic food ways, I think the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1726.65,"endTime":1730.31,"body":"problem is, is that the end of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1726.65,"endTime":1730.31,"body":"the day, it's far deeper than"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1730.31,"endTime":1733.58,"body":"read the manual, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1730.31,"endTime":1733.58,"body":"mother used to say, read the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1733.61,"endTime":1737.99,"body":"Bleep manual. It was just like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1733.61,"endTime":1737.99,"body":"no, it's it's its culture, its"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1737.99,"endTime":1742.46,"body":"history, it's a certain vibe."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1737.99,"endTime":1742.46,"body":"It's the keys to the executive"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1742.46,"endTime":1748.94,"body":"bathroom. It's the it's it's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1742.46,"endTime":1748.94,"body":"the code. It's the man having"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1748.94,"endTime":1752.78,"body":"the master code behind all of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1748.94,"endTime":1752.78,"body":"the the bells and whistles and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1752.78,"endTime":1756.05,"body":"buttons. And I think that you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1752.78,"endTime":1756.05,"body":"have to really sort of do this"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1756.05,"endTime":1761.48,"body":"kind of deep dive respectful"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1756.05,"endTime":1761.48,"body":"initiation almost, to be able to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1761.48,"endTime":1764.78,"body":"really comprehend them apprehend"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1761.48,"endTime":1764.78,"body":"what the hell that means we go"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1764.78,"endTime":1767.99,"body":"into kitchen and cook something."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1764.78,"endTime":1767.99,"body":"And I think that's what I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1768.02,"endTime":1770.96,"body":"people sometimes people get mad"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1768.02,"endTime":1770.96,"body":"on the other side, like, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1770.96,"endTime":1773.93,"body":"know, that that's one of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1770.96,"endTime":1773.93,"body":"biggest criticisms I get from"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1773.93,"endTime":1779.69,"body":"white people is that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1773.93,"endTime":1779.69,"body":"how special kajabi you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1779.69,"endTime":1782.87,"body":"which implies a certain amount"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1779.69,"endTime":1782.87,"body":"of racism, right? Or at least"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1782.9,"endTime":1786.71,"body":"ignorance of just like, No, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1782.9,"endTime":1786.71,"body":"there's so many layers and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1786.71,"endTime":1789.98,"body":"levels that you have to get to,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1786.71,"endTime":1789.98,"body":"before you can even begin to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1789.98,"endTime":1792.89,"body":"approach this material in a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1789.98,"endTime":1792.89,"body":"kitchen. You know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1792.89,"endTime":1794.51,"body":"it's challenging"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1792.89,"endTime":1794.51,"body":"because I say like, I don't even"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1794.51,"endTime":1797.72,"body":"really have a food culture and I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1794.51,"endTime":1797.72,"body":"didn't grow up, like I grew up"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1797.75,"endTime":1800.99,"body":"eating the same timeframe as you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1797.75,"endTime":1800.99,"body":"Like the food wasn't really"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1800.99,"endTime":1803.84,"body":"special, I grew up outside of"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1800.99,"endTime":1803.84,"body":"Boston, you know, my family's"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1804.08,"endTime":1806.6,"body":"ancestors are from England, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1804.08,"endTime":1806.6,"body":"know, I'm not really"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1806.6,"endTime":1809.48,"body":"particularly interested in like"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1806.6,"endTime":1809.48,"body":"English food, I think that kind"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1809.48,"endTime":1812.39,"body":"of stuff is bland, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1809.48,"endTime":1812.39,"body":"didn't grow up in a Mexican"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1812.39,"endTime":1814.67,"body":"household or an Italian"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1812.39,"endTime":1814.67,"body":"household, like, we just ate"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1814.7,"endTime":1817.67,"body":"kind of, like 80s casseroles and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1814.7,"endTime":1817.67,"body":"stuff, you know. So when I went"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1817.67,"endTime":1820.85,"body":"to culinary school, I have these"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1817.67,"endTime":1820.85,"body":"grand visions of like, now I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1820.85,"endTime":1824.39,"body":"taking foods of Asia and foods"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1820.85,"endTime":1824.39,"body":"of France and all this and was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1824.39,"endTime":1826.43,"body":"exposed to all these cultures"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1824.39,"endTime":1826.43,"body":"and flavors. It's like, that's"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1826.43,"endTime":1829.61,"body":"the food I want to make. But I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1826.43,"endTime":1829.61,"body":"have no reference point for"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1829.61,"endTime":1831.77,"body":"that, because I didn't grow up"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1829.61,"endTime":1831.77,"body":"eating it. I didn't grow up"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1831.77,"endTime":1835.25,"body":"cooking it. And you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1831.77,"endTime":1835.25,"body":"really a challenging time. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1835.25,"endTime":1839.99,"body":"now I'm living down in Maryland,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1835.25,"endTime":1839.99,"body":"which in you know, some people"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1840.02,"endTime":1842.33,"body":"consider the south, right, like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1840.02,"endTime":1842.33,"body":"I never thought of it as the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1842.33,"endTime":1845.24,"body":"South when I was living up in"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1842.33,"endTime":1845.24,"body":"the Boston area. And it's like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1845.24,"endTime":1847.79,"body":"what is my food? Now? You know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1845.24,"endTime":1847.79,"body":"I have my own personal chef"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1847.79,"endTime":1851.42,"body":"business, what kind of food can"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1847.79,"endTime":1851.42,"body":"I make? Should I make and I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1851.42,"endTime":1854.36,"body":"still challenge with that? Like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1851.42,"endTime":1854.36,"body":"should I be making shrimp and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1854.36,"endTime":1857.18,"body":"grits, uh, you know, a dish that"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1854.36,"endTime":1857.18,"body":"I never had until, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1857.24,"endTime":1861.02,"body":"eight years ago, that I have no"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1857.24,"endTime":1861.02,"body":"history with. And so I still"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1861.02,"endTime":1864.08,"body":"even kind of grapple with that"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1861.02,"endTime":1864.08,"body":"because I don't really have"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1864.08,"endTime":1867.08,"body":"this, like food history or"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1864.08,"endTime":1867.08,"body":"culture that I grew up with. So"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1867.23,"endTime":1870.5,"body":"still trying to find like, my"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1867.23,"endTime":1870.5,"body":"voice and my vision, I guess"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":1870.5,"endTime":1871.22,"body":"through food."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1871.91,"endTime":1873.98,"body":"I like you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1871.91,"endTime":1873.98,"body":"and it's for me, it's the same"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1873.98,"endTime":1878.15,"body":"thing. But you know, here's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1873.98,"endTime":1878.15,"body":"deal. I think we're kind of in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1878.15,"endTime":1880.31,"body":"the same boat, but different"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1878.15,"endTime":1880.31,"body":"coins, different sides of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1880.31,"endTime":1885.98,"body":"same coin. And I say that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1880.31,"endTime":1885.98,"body":"because my early struggle to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1885.98,"endTime":1890.63,"body":"identify with soulfood was not"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1885.98,"endTime":1890.63,"body":"about you know, I connected to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1890.63,"endTime":1894.17,"body":"some some parts of anti"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1890.63,"endTime":1894.17,"body":"blackness of the guy from"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1894.17,"endTime":1896.69,"body":"society, it's with a person"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1894.17,"endTime":1896.69,"body":"messed up. It was from society,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1896.69,"endTime":1901.4,"body":"it wasn't for my family. It was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1896.69,"endTime":1901.4,"body":"from a world where there was no"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1901.43,"endTime":1905.81,"body":"no way no damn, Beyonce wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1901.43,"endTime":1905.81,"body":"know what No, you know, a Barack"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1905.81,"endTime":1911.24,"body":"Obama. You know? You know what,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1905.81,"endTime":1911.24,"body":"no, Kamala Harris. What? No,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1911.24,"endTime":1916.88,"body":"none of that. You know, we have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1911.24,"endTime":1916.88,"body":"a hope of Jesse Jackson. We had"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1916.88,"endTime":1921.62,"body":"a we had an ever, ever changing"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1916.88,"endTime":1921.62,"body":"ever molting Michael Jackson. We"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1921.62,"endTime":1926.33,"body":"had a black mare in DC, who, who"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1921.62,"endTime":1926.33,"body":"lost everything, because of an"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1926.33,"endTime":1933.17,"body":"affair and because of his"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1926.33,"endTime":1933.17,"body":"involvement with drugs. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1933.2,"endTime":1936.68,"body":"I mean, I mean, you know, and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1933.2,"endTime":1936.68,"body":"say that, because I have a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1936.68,"endTime":1940.07,"body":"of love and respect for Marion"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1936.68,"endTime":1940.07,"body":"Barry. Especially, you know, him"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1940.07,"endTime":1944.93,"body":"before that incident, and him"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1940.07,"endTime":1944.93,"body":"when he redeemed himself. But I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1944.93,"endTime":1947.0,"body":"say I'd say as a black kid"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1944.93,"endTime":1947.0,"body":"growing up in DC, I didn't have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1947.0,"endTime":1950.51,"body":"the same resources that these"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1947.0,"endTime":1950.51,"body":"folks have now. There was not"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1950.51,"endTime":1953.12,"body":"the same language. And it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1950.51,"endTime":1953.12,"body":"I'll say the same relationship"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1953.12,"endTime":1956.03,"body":"to our history. I mean, people"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1953.12,"endTime":1956.03,"body":"people still in the black"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1956.03,"endTime":1959.72,"body":"community are ambivalent about"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1956.03,"endTime":1959.72,"body":"African American vernacular"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1959.72,"endTime":1963.53,"body":"cooking. You know, there's still"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1959.72,"endTime":1963.53,"body":"an ambivalence. And an"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1963.53,"endTime":1967.67,"body":"ambivalence is not just because"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1963.53,"endTime":1967.67,"body":"of, of times moving on, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1967.67,"endTime":1972.17,"body":"people people really do believe"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1967.67,"endTime":1972.17,"body":"that anything and everything"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1972.17,"endTime":1975.59,"body":"that has the touch of that part"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1972.17,"endTime":1975.59,"body":"of our southern story and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1975.59,"endTime":1980.48,"body":"background is poisonous. And it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1975.59,"endTime":1980.48,"body":"goes from being talking about is"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1980.48,"endTime":1987.23,"body":"it healthy, is it not healthy to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1980.48,"endTime":1987.23,"body":"that slave food to you know, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1987.23,"endTime":1989.66,"body":"don't, I don't want to touch"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1987.23,"endTime":1989.66,"body":"that. That's, that's, that's,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1989.66,"endTime":1992.6,"body":"that's this, that's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1989.66,"endTime":1992.6,"body":"all these connotations that go"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1992.6,"endTime":1994.79,"body":"along with it, that are very"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1992.6,"endTime":1994.79,"body":"negative. And then there are"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1994.79,"endTime":1997.67,"body":"other folks who are just like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1994.79,"endTime":1997.67,"body":"you know, think that there is a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1997.67,"endTime":2003.04,"body":"very set black menu, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":1997.67,"endTime":2003.04,"body":"it's it's all in one bubble. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2003.04,"endTime":2006.37,"body":"you know, for example, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2003.04,"endTime":2006.37,"body":"infamous Whole Foods, greens"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2006.37,"endTime":2011.44,"body":"with peanuts, and I had to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2006.37,"endTime":2011.44,"body":"explain to people Hey, guys, um,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2011.86,"endTime":2015.37,"body":"there's this place called Africa"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2011.86,"endTime":2015.37,"body":"big old caught it with with lots"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2015.37,"endTime":2018.34,"body":"of countries and and most of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2015.37,"endTime":2018.34,"body":"those countries, leafy greens"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2018.34,"endTime":2023.74,"body":"are paired with peanuts. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2018.34,"endTime":2023.74,"body":"know, but then and then you have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2023.8,"endTime":2029.68,"body":"then you have a whole other"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2023.8,"endTime":2029.68,"body":"issue of diaspora wars, where"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2029.71,"endTime":2034.81,"body":"some of us are just fine. are"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2029.71,"endTime":2034.81,"body":"just fine sitting up here eating"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2034.81,"endTime":2038.74,"body":"jollof rice and your chicken and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2034.81,"endTime":2038.74,"body":"fried chicken and collard greens"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2038.74,"endTime":2044.11,"body":"and you know, raw, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2038.74,"endTime":2044.11,"body":"rundown stew in and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2044.11,"endTime":2046.84,"body":"chicken and ground, let's do all"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2044.11,"endTime":2046.84,"body":"together, because it's black das"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2046.84,"endTime":2049.36,"body":"bro, we're off in the same"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2046.84,"endTime":2049.36,"body":"places and homes. It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2049.36,"endTime":2052.84,"body":"really matter that others have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2049.36,"endTime":2052.84,"body":"is like, my food. And my culture"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2052.84,"endTime":2054.97,"body":"is better than your culture, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2052.84,"endTime":2054.97,"body":"have a culture, you don't have a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2054.97,"endTime":2060.82,"body":"culture that, uh, those things"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2054.97,"endTime":2060.82,"body":"impact our food journeys. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2060.82,"endTime":2064.66,"body":"they certainly for black chefs"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2060.82,"endTime":2064.66,"body":"in particular, the same time"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2064.66,"endTime":2067.75,"body":"period when going to school and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2064.66,"endTime":2067.75,"body":"getting a certificate and a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2067.75,"endTime":2072.16,"body":"degree was critical to your"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2067.75,"endTime":2072.16,"body":"success as a chef, was the same"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2072.16,"endTime":2075.4,"body":"time that black chefs in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2072.16,"endTime":2075.4,"body":"kitchen started to become"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2075.4,"endTime":2078.13,"body":"decimated, you know, not the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2075.4,"endTime":2078.13,"body":"folks who went to school with"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2078.13,"endTime":2081.88,"body":"him who would always cook that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2078.13,"endTime":2081.88,"body":"way. who learned French cooking"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2082.09,"endTime":2086.47,"body":"in the kitchen, who went away"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2082.09,"endTime":2086.47,"body":"from dishwasher to head chef or"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2086.47,"endTime":2091.06,"body":"sous chef. And then it was like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2086.47,"endTime":2091.06,"body":"you got to go to school. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2091.12,"endTime":2094.84,"body":"so that means the folks who did"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2091.12,"endTime":2094.84,"body":"this almost in a hereditary way."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2095.92,"endTime":2099.4,"body":"Oh, they were lost. And then the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2095.92,"endTime":2099.4,"body":"other generation that generation"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2099.4,"endTime":2102.79,"body":"is going into school. That's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2099.4,"endTime":2102.79,"body":"black. Is this going to culinary"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2102.79,"endTime":2106.03,"body":"school are being taught? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2102.79,"endTime":2106.03,"body":"you could probably do better"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2106.03,"endTime":2108.82,"body":"than that soul food and Southern"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2106.03,"endTime":2108.82,"body":"Cooking can do that. You should"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2108.82,"endTime":2112.6,"body":"do this to prove yourself. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2108.82,"endTime":2112.6,"body":"so the French cooking and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2112.6,"endTime":2116.35,"body":"Italian, the sushi, you know"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2112.6,"endTime":2116.35,"body":"they got uplifted. At the same"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2116.35,"endTime":2119.44,"body":"time we started to abandon those"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2116.35,"endTime":2119.44,"body":"things. And the same time we"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2119.44,"endTime":2122.5,"body":"were banning those things is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2119.44,"endTime":2122.5,"body":"same time that other people are"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2122.5,"endTime":2125.35,"body":"picking them up and going flying"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2122.5,"endTime":2125.35,"body":"with them because there is a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2125.35,"endTime":2127.99,"body":"Paul Prudhomme because there's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2125.35,"endTime":2127.99,"body":"Justin Wilson because there is"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2127.99,"endTime":2132.07,"body":"an LED free, because there are"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2127.99,"endTime":2132.07,"body":"people on PBS and, and other"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2132.07,"endTime":2135.28,"body":"things, the chef stars coming"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2132.07,"endTime":2135.28,"body":"up. And then that led to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2135.28,"endTime":2139.78,"body":"Food Network. Right. We have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2135.28,"endTime":2139.78,"body":"Tyler Florence, we have Alton"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2139.78,"endTime":2143.05,"body":"Brown, who's not really a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2139.78,"endTime":2143.05,"body":"southern, Southern, but he's one"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2143.05,"endTime":2146.71,"body":"of the Africans himself that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2143.05,"endTime":2146.71,"body":"way. But you know, Paula Dean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2146.74,"endTime":2147.25,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2148.09,"endTime":2149.77,"body":"I'm sure you could"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2148.09,"endTime":2149.77,"body":"go into policy and a lot."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2149.98,"endTime":2152.95,"body":"Yeah. Well, Paul"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2149.98,"endTime":2152.95,"body":"de never, you know, to catch"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2152.95,"endTime":2158.59,"body":"people up, I wrote a letter to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2152.95,"endTime":2158.59,"body":"Paula Dean in 2012. That went"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2158.59,"endTime":2166.78,"body":"viral. And or was it 2013 2013"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2158.59,"endTime":2166.78,"body":"sorry, 213 went viral. And um,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2166.81,"endTime":2169.87,"body":"you know, I invited her to a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2166.81,"endTime":2169.87,"body":"Mila was making on a historic"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2169.87,"endTime":2174.52,"body":"plantation, North Carolina, that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2169.87,"endTime":2174.52,"body":"was a fundraiser for historical"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2174.52,"endTime":2177.34,"body":"organization trying to preserve"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2174.52,"endTime":2177.34,"body":"the dwellings our ancestors"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2177.34,"endTime":2181.78,"body":"lived in on that property. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2177.34,"endTime":2181.78,"body":"she never showed up. And, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2181.84,"endTime":2185.53,"body":"that helped spur on the cooking"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2181.84,"endTime":2185.53,"body":"gene in some ways. Because he"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2185.53,"endTime":2188.53,"body":"really wasn't who I was after"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2185.53,"endTime":2188.53,"body":"that. That was after I had"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2188.53,"endTime":2192.88,"body":"traveled the South in done three"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2188.53,"endTime":2192.88,"body":"big trips, going from, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2192.91,"endTime":2197.41,"body":"up and down. I mean, across the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2192.91,"endTime":2197.41,"body":"south, one of the most important"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2197.41,"endTime":2201.73,"body":"summers of my life, Chris, not"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2197.41,"endTime":2201.73,"body":"just because it shaped the book"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2201.91,"endTime":2204.04,"body":"of that, and I didn't really"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2201.91,"endTime":2204.04,"body":"intend to write a book at that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2204.04,"endTime":2206.86,"body":"point, I was just doing it, to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2204.04,"endTime":2206.86,"body":"see how far I could go with"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2207.34,"endTime":2210.7,"body":"those journeys. And that and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2207.34,"endTime":2210.7,"body":"then intent that purpose. But it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2210.7,"endTime":2216.25,"body":"was important for me, because I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2210.7,"endTime":2216.25,"body":"had, I had literally dreamed of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2216.28,"endTime":2219.55,"body":"four years of doing something"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2216.28,"endTime":2219.55,"body":"like that, then since my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2219.55,"endTime":2221.86,"body":"grandmother was alive, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2219.55,"endTime":2221.86,"body":"memory, which meant, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2221.86,"endTime":2228.13,"body":"12 and 13 years old. Here, I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2221.86,"endTime":2228.13,"body":"almost 40. And I'm you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2228.13,"endTime":2233.26,"body":"making this massive, sort of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2228.13,"endTime":2233.26,"body":"like Odyssey across the American"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2233.26,"endTime":2238.15,"body":"South with the sole intent"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2233.26,"endTime":2238.15,"body":"purpose of connecting the food"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2238.15,"endTime":2243.31,"body":"to this to the stories of my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2238.15,"endTime":2243.31,"body":"ancestors, our ancestors, racial"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2243.31,"endTime":2248.38,"body":"justice, innovation, creativity,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2243.31,"endTime":2248.38,"body":"and working through healing the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2248.38,"endTime":2254.5,"body":"trauma of American slavery. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2248.38,"endTime":2254.5,"body":"it just changed my life forever."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2254.98,"endTime":2259.72,"body":"In fact, I remember sitting down"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2254.98,"endTime":2259.72,"body":"with the rabbi at Temple, Beth"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2259.72,"endTime":2263.29,"body":"el in Birmingham, which is not"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2259.72,"endTime":2263.29,"body":"very far from the church where"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2263.29,"endTime":2268.0,"body":"the four little girls were, were"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2263.29,"endTime":2268.0,"body":"murdered in 63. And she said to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2268.0,"endTime":2272.17,"body":"me, do you realize this, your"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2268.0,"endTime":2272.17,"body":"life is gonna change forever"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2272.17,"endTime":2275.14,"body":"because of this. And it was the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2272.17,"endTime":2275.14,"body":"first time I had to really"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2275.14,"endTime":2279.37,"body":"confront the fact really scary"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2275.14,"endTime":2279.37,"body":"fact, that now that I had met"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2279.37,"endTime":2284.08,"body":"these foods on the road, I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2279.37,"endTime":2284.08,"body":"never gonna be the same person"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2284.08,"endTime":2285.58,"body":"again. Mm hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2286.09,"endTime":2288.76,"body":"That must have been"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2286.09,"endTime":2288.76,"body":"an amazing trip. And so eye"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2288.76,"endTime":2289.6,"body":"opening, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2289.99,"endTime":2294.97,"body":"It was because I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2289.99,"endTime":2294.97,"body":"didn't, um, it was before, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2294.97,"endTime":2299.98,"body":"was kind of like, in a weird"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2294.97,"endTime":2299.98,"body":"spot, politically. You know, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2299.98,"endTime":2303.94,"body":"went from being, you know, hey,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2299.98,"endTime":2303.94,"body":"this is great. Life is awesome."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2303.94,"endTime":2309.16,"body":"We have a black president, two"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2303.94,"endTime":2309.16,"body":"people really being vicious"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2310.12,"endTime":2314.95,"body":"about it. And I was worried, not"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2310.12,"endTime":2314.95,"body":"scared as in Oh, my God, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2314.95,"endTime":2318.7,"body":"going to whatever. But I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2314.95,"endTime":2318.7,"body":"worried that that would temper"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2318.73,"endTime":2322.9,"body":"my ability to connect with"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2318.73,"endTime":2322.9,"body":"people and really relate and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2322.9,"endTime":2327.13,"body":"really have an honest, open"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2322.9,"endTime":2327.13,"body":"conversations. And it didn't, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2327.13,"endTime":2331.78,"body":"didn't think maybe I was just"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2327.13,"endTime":2331.78,"body":"blessed. And things were, they"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2331.78,"endTime":2336.58,"body":"were, but I mean, just being"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2331.78,"endTime":2336.58,"body":"able to eat a creole tomato. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2336.58,"endTime":2340.09,"body":"understand how different that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2336.58,"endTime":2340.09,"body":"tomato is from a tomato grown"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2340.09,"endTime":2343.09,"body":"anywhere else, because of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2340.09,"endTime":2343.09,"body":"nature of the soil of South"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2343.09,"endTime":2349.81,"body":"Louisiana. What it meant to have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2343.09,"endTime":2349.81,"body":"fresh sorghum, and Tennessee."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2351.07,"endTime":2355.48,"body":"You know what it meant to, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2351.07,"endTime":2355.48,"body":"know, have somebody pull blue"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2355.48,"endTime":2360.58,"body":"crabs out of the bay in Southern"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2355.48,"endTime":2360.58,"body":"Maryland, what it meant to see"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2360.58,"endTime":2364.12,"body":"the real deal country hands"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2360.58,"endTime":2364.12,"body":"hanging up in Virginia, all of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2364.12,"endTime":2368.08,"body":"these sort of like moments of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2364.12,"endTime":2368.08,"body":"just, you know, this is what it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2368.08,"endTime":2372.43,"body":"is that you know, children Pete"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2368.08,"endTime":2372.43,"body":"from Alabama, this is where it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2372.43,"endTime":2375.25,"body":"is, this is why it's important"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2372.43,"endTime":2375.25,"body":"is why it should smell a certain"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2375.25,"endTime":2377.59,"body":"way and look a certain way. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2375.25,"endTime":2377.59,"body":"this is what it means to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2377.59,"endTime":2380.86,"body":"people who eat it, though you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2377.59,"endTime":2380.86,"body":"can't get that from a book."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2381.19,"endTime":2384.4,"body":"Not at all. And we"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2381.19,"endTime":2384.4,"body":"don't talk enough about terroir,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2384.4,"endTime":2387.19,"body":"I think, you know, like, people"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2384.4,"endTime":2387.19,"body":"have a garden and they grow a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2387.19,"endTime":2390.55,"body":"tomato here and Maryland. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2387.19,"endTime":2390.55,"body":"they I think a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2390.55,"endTime":2394.3,"body":"assume that it tastes the same"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2390.55,"endTime":2394.3,"body":"as it does, you know, down, down"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2394.3,"endTime":2395.56,"body":"south or whatever."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2396.25,"endTime":2400.15,"body":"Mm hmm. Yeah, No"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2396.25,"endTime":2400.15,"body":"way. No way. It's, it's it's You"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2400.15,"endTime":2403.06,"body":"know, for example, going to New"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2400.15,"endTime":2403.06,"body":"England, and this is, and this"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2403.06,"endTime":2407.35,"body":"is something that we should"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2403.06,"endTime":2407.35,"body":"really emphasize. Most Americans"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2407.35,"endTime":2413.23,"body":"I was I was horrified to find"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2407.35,"endTime":2413.23,"body":"ourselves most Americans in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2413.23,"endTime":2419.38,"body":"their lifetime, you know, God in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2413.23,"endTime":2419.38,"body":"their lifetime 1415 states max."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2420.16,"endTime":2423.85,"body":"Hmm. And that's being generous."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2420.16,"endTime":2423.85,"body":"I think the real numbers like"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2423.85,"endTime":2428.77,"body":"12. And I think most people, if"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2423.85,"endTime":2428.77,"body":"they do travel, they will get to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2428.77,"endTime":2431.23,"body":"New York, they'll get to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2428.77,"endTime":2431.23,"body":"Florida, they'll get to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2431.23,"endTime":2434.8,"body":"California, they could Chicago,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2431.23,"endTime":2434.8,"body":"or Hawaii, those are the top"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2434.8,"endTime":2438.25,"body":"five other places they'll go,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2434.8,"endTime":2438.25,"body":"for the most part, they'll never"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2438.25,"endTime":2440.62,"body":"know what it means to be in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2438.25,"endTime":2440.62,"body":"middle of Georgia, or in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2440.62,"endTime":2444.43,"body":"Wyoming, or some other place"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2440.62,"endTime":2444.43,"body":"other place, or go to Maine, for"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2444.43,"endTime":2448.03,"body":"example. And even why even while"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2444.43,"endTime":2448.03,"body":"the reason why even bring this"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2448.03,"endTime":2453.82,"body":"up is that I'm just like, oh, so"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2448.03,"endTime":2453.82,"body":"the bottom line here is this."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2454.36,"endTime":2458.38,"body":"You don't see other places and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2454.36,"endTime":2458.38,"body":"intimately get to know them and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2458.38,"endTime":2463.33,"body":"the people and their food and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2458.38,"endTime":2463.33,"body":"everything about it. How is it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2463.33,"endTime":2465.04,"body":"that you give to make"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2463.33,"endTime":2465.04,"body":"pronouncements and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2465.04,"endTime":2470.5,"body":"pronunciations over the general"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2465.04,"endTime":2470.5,"body":"body politic and culture when"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2470.5,"endTime":2472.87,"body":"you don't know your own"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2470.5,"endTime":2472.87,"body":"neighbors and fellow citizens,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2473.349,"endTime":2475.539,"body":"and some people,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2473.349,"endTime":2475.539,"body":"and some people travel and they,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2475.779,"endTime":2478.689,"body":"they'll go to a place like"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2475.779,"endTime":2478.689,"body":"Georgia, but they won't eat a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2478.689,"endTime":2481.059,"body":"local restaurant, they'll eat an"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2478.689,"endTime":2481.059,"body":"Applebee's. So even if they do"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2481.059,"endTime":2483.849,"body":"travel, they're not getting that"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2481.059,"endTime":2483.849,"body":"local flair."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2484.059,"endTime":2487.269,"body":"Exactly. They're"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2484.059,"endTime":2487.269,"body":"not getting it. And it's just,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2487.419,"endTime":2492.429,"body":"it's just a it's a sad example"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2487.419,"endTime":2492.429,"body":"of how we're not really taking"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2492.429,"endTime":2498.399,"body":"advantage of the abundance and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2492.429,"endTime":2498.399,"body":"diversity that we are blessed to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2498.399,"endTime":2502.839,"body":"have, by virtue of consequence"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2498.399,"endTime":2502.839,"body":"of being in the United States of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2502.839,"endTime":2503.379,"body":"America."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2503.829,"endTime":2506.559,"body":"Now, so you're"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2503.829,"endTime":2506.559,"body":"Jewish, but you weren't born"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2506.559,"endTime":2509.169,"body":"Jewish, you chose to convert?"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2506.559,"endTime":2509.169,"body":"How old were you when you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2509.169,"endTime":2510.399,"body":"converted to Judaism?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2510.46,"endTime":2513.82,"body":"I'm in my 20s."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2510.46,"endTime":2513.82,"body":"Um, to be real with you. This is"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2513.82,"endTime":2517.24,"body":"how I describe it. Now, all the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2513.82,"endTime":2517.24,"body":"whole picture. So people who"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2517.24,"endTime":2521.62,"body":"don't understand that I have, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2517.24,"endTime":2521.62,"body":"have some I have some Jewish"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2521.62,"endTime":2526.27,"body":"ancestry. from Ukraine, I know"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2521.62,"endTime":2526.27,"body":"you always knew this, because we"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2526.27,"endTime":2529.75,"body":"had stories about my family. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2526.27,"endTime":2529.75,"body":"it wasn't like Ukraine, or"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2529.75,"endTime":2533.95,"body":"Germany, or just like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2529.75,"endTime":2533.95,"body":"we had Jewish ancestors, and not"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2533.95,"endTime":2539.26,"body":"black. But I kind of knew that."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2533.95,"endTime":2539.26,"body":"But I grew up in a very Jewish"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2539.26,"endTime":2544.78,"body":"area, once we got to Maryland,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2539.26,"endTime":2544.78,"body":"and I did convert when I was in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2544.78,"endTime":2551.41,"body":"my early 20s. And I also knew I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2544.78,"endTime":2551.41,"body":"had this little spark. And then"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2551.41,"endTime":2554.47,"body":"when I, you know, found out"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2551.41,"endTime":2554.47,"body":"later on, oh, yeah, you've got"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2554.47,"endTime":2560.65,"body":"actual biological cousins, from"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2554.47,"endTime":2560.65,"body":"Ukraine, and a lot of them. It"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2560.65,"endTime":2562.78,"body":"was just like, the African"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2560.65,"endTime":2562.78,"body":"ancestry stuff. And we're just"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2562.78,"endTime":2568.24,"body":"like, okay, so these look, these"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2562.78,"endTime":2568.24,"body":"voices are these voices in these"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2568.6,"endTime":2573.22,"body":"flavors, and these foods are"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2568.6,"endTime":2573.22,"body":"calling the the phone calls"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2573.22,"endTime":2577.12,"body":"coming from in the house. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2573.22,"endTime":2577.12,"body":"know, it's not, it's not all"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2577.12,"endTime":2580.36,"body":"just an outsider. So to me, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2577.12,"endTime":2580.36,"body":"was never really exotic. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2580.39,"endTime":2583.57,"body":"right now, I'm working on kosher"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2580.39,"endTime":2583.57,"body":"soul, which is talking about"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2583.72,"endTime":2588.67,"body":"part of that journey. I want to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2583.72,"endTime":2588.67,"body":"make myself as little as exotic"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2588.67,"endTime":2593.5,"body":"as as little strange and exotic"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2588.67,"endTime":2593.5,"body":"as possible. Because I want"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2593.5,"endTime":2596.35,"body":"people to understand that I've"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2593.5,"endTime":2596.35,"body":"interviewed a lot of people who"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2596.89,"endTime":2601.3,"body":"are black and Jewish, who are"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2596.89,"endTime":2601.3,"body":"born Jewish, who are biracial,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2601.3,"endTime":2603.61,"body":"who are born of black Jewish"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2601.3,"endTime":2603.61,"body":"families that have been black"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2603.61,"endTime":2607.75,"body":"and Jewish for quite some time,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2603.61,"endTime":2607.75,"body":"hundreds of years, not"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2607.75,"endTime":2612.37,"body":"centuries, and millennia. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2607.75,"endTime":2612.37,"body":"there's some people who can who"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2612.37,"endTime":2615.52,"body":"convert into just like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2612.37,"endTime":2615.52,"body":"converted, no big deal. There's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2615.52,"endTime":2619.93,"body":"some people who don't talk about"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2615.52,"endTime":2619.93,"body":"it in those terms. There are"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2619.93,"endTime":2622.66,"body":"people who have, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2619.93,"endTime":2622.66,"body":"blended families where they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2622.66,"endTime":2626.5,"body":"not well, they participate in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2622.66,"endTime":2626.5,"body":"Jewish culture and culinary"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2626.5,"endTime":2629.35,"body":"tradition, but aren't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2626.5,"endTime":2629.35,"body":"necessarily Jewish themselves."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2629.65,"endTime":2632.71,"body":"So there's this whole world of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2629.65,"endTime":2632.71,"body":"blacks involving Judaism and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2632.71,"endTime":2636.16,"body":"America and beyond that I've"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2632.71,"endTime":2636.16,"body":"incorporated the kosher soul and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2636.16,"endTime":2639.22,"body":"asking those questions of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2636.16,"endTime":2639.22,"body":"identity. But one one of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2639.22,"endTime":2642.16,"body":"things that really interested me"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2639.22,"endTime":2642.16,"body":"was the to the degree to which"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2642.16,"endTime":2648.04,"body":"that Southern Jews through their"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2642.16,"endTime":2648.04,"body":"neighbors for people black"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2648.04,"endTime":2652.12,"body":"domestics who worked in those"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2648.04,"endTime":2652.12,"body":"households had an entire you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2652.12,"endTime":2656.65,"body":"know, as, as Marcy Coen, Ferris"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2652.12,"endTime":2656.65,"body":"puts it, matsubara, gumbo"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2656.65,"endTime":2662.02,"body":"cuisine that was less about"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2656.65,"endTime":2662.02,"body":"fusion and more about finding"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2662.02,"endTime":2664.81,"body":"acceptance in a region where"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2662.02,"endTime":2664.81,"body":"they were definitely a minority."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2665.44,"endTime":2668.2,"body":"And I know people tend to think"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2665.44,"endTime":2668.2,"body":"of the south as being Oh my god,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2668.2,"endTime":2671.47,"body":"the last place Jews would"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2668.2,"endTime":2671.47,"body":"emigrate to and be a part of,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2671.47,"endTime":2674.47,"body":"but that's actually not true."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2671.47,"endTime":2674.47,"body":"Charleston and Savannah, in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2674.47,"endTime":2678.58,"body":"colonial period had more Jews in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2674.47,"endTime":2678.58,"body":"New York and Philadelphia, New"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2678.58,"endTime":2683.02,"body":"Orleans, a close third in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2678.58,"endTime":2683.02,"body":"early 19th century. And beyond"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2683.02,"endTime":2686.14,"body":"that history, there were Jews"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2683.02,"endTime":2686.14,"body":"scattered throughout the deep"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2686.14,"endTime":2690.46,"body":"south. And they set up"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2686.14,"endTime":2690.46,"body":"communities those communities,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2691.03,"endTime":2696.1,"body":"created a co cuisine that was a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2691.03,"endTime":2696.1,"body":"bridge between Jewish cuisines"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2696.1,"endTime":2700.33,"body":"and the old world and southern"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2696.1,"endTime":2700.33,"body":"particularly black Based"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2700.33,"endTime":2704.02,"body":"cuisines of the American South."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2700.33,"endTime":2704.02,"body":"And I thought that everybody did"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2704.02,"endTime":2707.41,"body":"that. And it turns out that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2704.02,"endTime":2707.41,"body":"they're, that for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2707.47,"endTime":2712.27,"body":"African American Jews in the, in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2707.47,"endTime":2712.27,"body":"the northeast or Midwest or west"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2712.27,"endTime":2716.59,"body":"coast, that's really, they tend"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2712.27,"endTime":2716.59,"body":"to keep the two cuisine"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2716.59,"endTime":2722.32,"body":"separate. They make appearances"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2716.59,"endTime":2722.32,"body":"at, you know, so for example,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2722.32,"endTime":2725.92,"body":"you might have a chicken Gumbo"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2722.32,"endTime":2725.92,"body":"and Orthodox black family in Los"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2725.92,"endTime":2733.36,"body":"Angeles, you know, with roots in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2725.92,"endTime":2733.36,"body":"Louisiana places. But that's not"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2733.36,"endTime":2738.4,"body":"like my like, you know, fusion,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2733.36,"endTime":2738.4,"body":"not fusion, but the best of both"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2738.4,"endTime":2743.2,"body":"worlds Venn diagram, Afro, fit"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2738.4,"endTime":2743.2,"body":"cooking. And the people who do"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2743.2,"endTime":2747.61,"body":"this the most are actually white"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2743.2,"endTime":2747.61,"body":"Southerners who convert to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2747.61,"endTime":2748.24,"body":"Judaism."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2748.989,"endTime":2749.859,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2750.639,"endTime":2753.009,"body":"Yes, that's what"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2750.639,"endTime":2753.009,"body":"I found. I was like, Whoa, but,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2753.489,"endTime":2757.269,"body":"you know, I've also been, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2753.489,"endTime":2757.269,"body":"know, the receiving end of many"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2757.269,"endTime":2761.829,"body":"calls over the past 15 years of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2757.269,"endTime":2761.829,"body":"people going, Hey, Mr. Twitty, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2761.829,"endTime":2765.969,"body":"know you're in you do this. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2761.829,"endTime":2765.969,"body":"I'm Jewish, and I converted. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2765.969,"endTime":2769.809,"body":"I'm white. And I'm Southern. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2765.969,"endTime":2769.809,"body":"I really can't let go of my my"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2769.809,"endTime":2773.229,"body":"food. But I don't always have to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2769.809,"endTime":2773.229,"body":"make a kosher or this or that I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2773.229,"endTime":2777.579,"body":"wanted to have an idea. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2773.229,"endTime":2777.579,"body":"yeah, they communicate that to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2777.579,"endTime":2780.519,"body":"me that that it's it's so"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2777.579,"endTime":2780.519,"body":"important to them. One thing I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2780.519,"endTime":2784.929,"body":"want to dispel right now, is"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2780.519,"endTime":2784.929,"body":"that Southern food doesn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2784.989,"endTime":2788.439,"body":"require pork. Ladies and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2784.989,"endTime":2788.439,"body":"gentlemen, one of the biggest"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2788.439,"endTime":2792.459,"body":"questions I get is how can you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2788.439,"endTime":2792.459,"body":"do Jewish food with your food"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2792.459,"endTime":2795.909,"body":"and southern without the pork?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2792.459,"endTime":2795.909,"body":"Come on now. And I'm just like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2796.599,"endTime":2799.419,"body":"that there was there's no Bible"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2796.599,"endTime":2799.419,"body":"that said, that's a necessity,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2799.809,"endTime":2804.639,"body":"not at all. And, by the way, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2799.809,"endTime":2804.639,"body":"tradition that I come from the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2804.639,"endTime":2808.299,"body":"offshoot of Southern food that I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2804.639,"endTime":2808.299,"body":"come from, is born in African"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2808.299,"endTime":2812.169,"body":"tradition that didn't have"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2808.299,"endTime":2812.169,"body":"hardly any pork for 70,000"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2812.169,"endTime":2817.269,"body":"years. So I mean, shrug. There"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2812.169,"endTime":2817.269,"body":"are these things called smoked"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2817.269,"endTime":2820.479,"body":"turkey necks, wings, backbones,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2817.269,"endTime":2820.479,"body":"and everything else. And beef"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2820.479,"endTime":2823.089,"body":"can be smoked lamb bacon and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2820.479,"endTime":2823.089,"body":"duck bacon."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2823.719,"endTime":2825.339,"body":"You know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2823.719,"endTime":2825.339,"body":"saying? You can do a lot with"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2825.339,"endTime":2826.209,"body":"that smoked turkey."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2826.75,"endTime":2828.61,"body":"You can do a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2826.75,"endTime":2828.61,"body":"with that. And I mean, there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2828.61,"endTime":2832.45,"body":"so many, I think people forget"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2828.61,"endTime":2832.45,"body":"that the the most important part"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2833.08,"endTime":2841.18,"body":"isn't pork or pork fat even."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2833.08,"endTime":2841.18,"body":"It's the smoky flavor. And you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2841.18,"endTime":2843.28,"body":"know, that little bit of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2841.18,"endTime":2843.28,"body":"little bit of grease in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2843.28,"endTime":2846.88,"body":"water. That's the most important"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2843.28,"endTime":2846.88,"body":"part. It's not that you ate"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2846.88,"endTime":2847.36,"body":"pork."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2894.4,"endTime":2896.62,"body":"There's deities"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2894.4,"endTime":2896.62,"body":"in the faith is God, there's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2896.62,"endTime":2900.43,"body":"Jewish people, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2896.62,"endTime":2900.43,"body":"that's why the food is so"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2900.97,"endTime":2904.51,"body":"important. The religious dietary"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2900.97,"endTime":2904.51,"body":"laws and then there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2904.51,"endTime":2908.71,"body":"also, you know, the food that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2904.51,"endTime":2908.71,"body":"becomes part of the Diaspora and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2908.71,"endTime":2911.65,"body":"it's moving, it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2908.71,"endTime":2911.65,"body":"it's journeys. And that's why"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2911.68,"endTime":2915.97,"body":"the Jewish food is not just, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2911.68,"endTime":2915.97,"body":"know, you can be Jewish and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2915.97,"endTime":2919.3,"body":"faithful to your food and not"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2915.97,"endTime":2919.3,"body":"the religion. And it's very hard"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":2919.3,"endTime":2920.14,"body":"for people to understand."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2920.44,"endTime":2924.43,"body":"Yeah, I actually"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2920.44,"endTime":2924.43,"body":"have run to kosher kitchens and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2924.43,"endTime":2926.68,"body":"my life, I went into it with no"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2924.43,"endTime":2926.68,"body":"experience, and I just needed a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2926.68,"endTime":2930.07,"body":"job. And I end up working in"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2926.68,"endTime":2930.07,"body":"retirement communities, one in"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2930.07,"endTime":2932.53,"body":"Seattle and one outside"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2930.07,"endTime":2932.53,"body":"Philadelphia, but they were"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2932.59,"endTime":2936.07,"body":"fully on, you know, three"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2932.59,"endTime":2936.07,"body":"kitchen, three kitchens, meat,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2936.07,"endTime":2940.84,"body":"dairy parve, you know, I worked"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2936.07,"endTime":2940.84,"body":"at a place we had like, 750"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2940.84,"endTime":2944.14,"body":"people living there, and it was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2940.84,"endTime":2944.14,"body":"just like, man, it was, it was a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2944.14,"endTime":2947.32,"body":"lot to take in. But it was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2944.14,"endTime":2947.32,"body":"really cool. And I enjoyed that."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2947.32,"endTime":2949.9,"body":"And at the time, I was a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2947.32,"endTime":2949.9,"body":"vegetarian. So I loved it,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2949.9,"endTime":2954.19,"body":"because I knew, at least you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2949.9,"endTime":2954.19,"body":"know, on dairy meals, or you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2954.19,"endTime":2956.17,"body":"know, anything that came out of"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2954.19,"endTime":2956.17,"body":"the park kitchen was going to be"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2956.17,"endTime":2959.8,"body":"okay for me to eat. So, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2956.17,"endTime":2959.8,"body":"that was it was a whole learning"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2959.8,"endTime":2962.41,"body":"experience. Yeah, I worked at a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2959.8,"endTime":2962.41,"body":"retirement community in Seattle."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2962.56,"endTime":2967.39,"body":"Kenny G's grandmother lived"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2962.56,"endTime":2967.39,"body":"there. You know, yeah, I would"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2967.39,"endTime":2969.7,"body":"sit I would go to her apartment"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2967.39,"endTime":2969.7,"body":"or we'd sit on the balcony"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2969.7,"endTime":2973.63,"body":"eating Krispy Kreme Doughnuts"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2969.7,"endTime":2973.63,"body":"like overlooking the water in"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2973.63,"endTime":2977.17,"body":"Seattle and tell stories. So"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2973.63,"endTime":2977.17,"body":"yeah, I've met some really cool"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2977.17,"endTime":2981.94,"body":"people in my time. So you had"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2977.17,"endTime":2981.94,"body":"your website Afro culinaria. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2982.0,"endTime":2984.64,"body":"just I wanted to go back really"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2982.0,"endTime":2984.64,"body":"quick and look through it before"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2984.64,"endTime":2987.28,"body":"we talked and I realized I don't"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2984.64,"endTime":2987.28,"body":"even know if you know this. Your"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2987.28,"endTime":2992.53,"body":"first post was on January"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2987.28,"endTime":2992.53,"body":"12 2011, which is exactly 10"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2992.53,"endTime":2996.04,"body":"years ago today. So happy I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2992.53,"endTime":2996.04,"body":"didn't even know that we didn't."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2996.16,"endTime":2998.77,"body":"We didn't plan that but I was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2996.16,"endTime":2998.77,"body":"just that's how I first"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2998.77,"endTime":3001.23,"body":"encountered your work was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":2998.77,"endTime":3001.23,"body":"through there, and I was"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3001.23,"endTime":3004.2,"body":"looking, I was thinking, wow,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3001.23,"endTime":3004.2,"body":"how long has that been? I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3004.2,"endTime":3006.42,"body":"like, oh, we're gonna do the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3004.2,"endTime":3006.42,"body":"podcast and it's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3006.42,"endTime":3008.58,"body":"exactly 10 years. So Happy"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3006.42,"endTime":3008.58,"body":"anniversary."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3009.15,"endTime":3012.06,"body":"Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3009.15,"endTime":3012.06,"body":"much. I didn't even realize wow,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3012.12,"endTime":3013.23,"body":"happy birthday to me."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3013.26,"endTime":3014.55,"body":"Yeah, time flies,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3013.26,"endTime":3014.55,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3014.909,"endTime":3018.179,"body":"What? Uh, what?"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3014.909,"endTime":3018.179,"body":"Uh, yeah. Cuz like, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3018.179,"endTime":3021.899,"body":"once you get that once you start"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3018.179,"endTime":3021.899,"body":"working on the book, or books,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3021.899,"endTime":3027.359,"body":"plural, the what I do, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3021.899,"endTime":3027.359,"body":"not so much like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3027.689,"endTime":3032.459,"body":"recipe based. I can't ever it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3027.689,"endTime":3032.459,"body":"it starts to change. You know"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3032.489,"endTime":3035.609,"body":"where your focus is? Uh huh."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3032.489,"endTime":3035.609,"body":"Because you don't get money from"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3035.609,"endTime":3036.119,"body":"blog."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3036.69,"endTime":3039.09,"body":"Oh, no, I've been"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3036.69,"endTime":3039.09,"body":"doing it. I think like 12 years"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3039.09,"endTime":3040.95,"body":"now and no money at all."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3041.099,"endTime":3046.109,"body":"You get money"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3041.099,"endTime":3046.109,"body":"from being cooking gigs and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3046.109,"endTime":3050.369,"body":"speaking and writing but not. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3046.109,"endTime":3050.369,"body":"I hate to I hate to say that."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3050.369,"endTime":3052.859,"body":"But now that you've now chief"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3050.369,"endTime":3052.859,"body":"told me I have to do some kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3052.859,"endTime":3054.239,"body":"of anniversary thing. Wow."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3055.11,"endTime":3057.18,"body":"And not just not to"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3055.11,"endTime":3057.18,"body":"throw another thing on your to"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3057.18,"endTime":3058.23,"body":"do list today. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3058.26,"endTime":3061.56,"body":"yeah, but I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3058.26,"endTime":3061.56,"body":"guess I guess it's fun. Because"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3062.07,"endTime":3064.8,"body":"that get you know it I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3062.07,"endTime":3064.8,"body":"people understand with food, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3065.52,"endTime":3069.27,"body":"often get the question. Are you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3065.52,"endTime":3069.27,"body":"a chef? You ever chef? Do you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3069.27,"endTime":3073.68,"body":"have a restaurant? And people"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3069.27,"endTime":3073.68,"body":"can only understand me in terms"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3073.68,"endTime":3079.08,"body":"of catering restaurants and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3073.68,"endTime":3079.08,"body":"cookbooks. And I'm like, No,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3079.53,"endTime":3082.86,"body":"some of us need to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3079.53,"endTime":3082.86,"body":"nutritionists. And some of us"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3082.86,"endTime":3088.53,"body":"need to be personal chefs. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3082.86,"endTime":3088.53,"body":"some of us need to need to be in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3088.53,"endTime":3092.7,"body":"hotels, or retirement"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3088.53,"endTime":3092.7,"body":"communities, or cultural and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3092.7,"endTime":3096.27,"body":"community centers. And some of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3092.7,"endTime":3096.27,"body":"us run restaurants. And some of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3096.27,"endTime":3099.87,"body":"us write cookbooks. And just"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3096.27,"endTime":3099.87,"body":"getting people to understand"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3100.17,"endTime":3104.16,"body":"that, you know, if I if I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3100.17,"endTime":3104.16,"body":"running a restaurant, I sure as"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3104.19,"endTime":3107.22,"body":"hell wouldn't be talking to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3104.19,"endTime":3107.22,"body":"them. Because it's so much work."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3107.22,"endTime":3110.22,"body":"They don't get it. You know what"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3107.22,"endTime":3110.22,"body":"I'm saying? They don't get that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3110.43,"endTime":3113.94,"body":"that restaurant life, love the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3110.43,"endTime":3113.94,"body":"amount of privilege, you would"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3113.94,"endTime":3120.21,"body":"have to have to be able to both"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3113.94,"endTime":3120.21,"body":"have the restaurant and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3120.51,"endTime":3125.7,"body":"dream up fantastic recipes and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3120.51,"endTime":3125.7,"body":"flavor combinations, and whisk"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3125.7,"endTime":3129.24,"body":"them away, and then have time to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3125.7,"endTime":3129.24,"body":"converse with the entire world."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3131.13,"endTime":3133.2,"body":"That's why this is"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3131.13,"endTime":3133.2,"body":"Chefs Without Restaurants. But"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3133.2,"endTime":3136.59,"body":"you know, I've I've talked about"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3133.2,"endTime":3136.59,"body":"like, even dealing with what I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3136.59,"endTime":3138.75,"body":"perceived, and maybe it's all in"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3136.59,"endTime":3138.75,"body":"my head. But like the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3138.75,"endTime":3140.82,"body":"disappointment when people found"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3138.75,"endTime":3140.82,"body":"out I didn't work in"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3140.82,"endTime":3143.49,"body":"restaurants, like they would"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3140.82,"endTime":3143.49,"body":"say, what do you do? I'm a chef."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3143.49,"endTime":3146.43,"body":"And they get all excited and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3143.49,"endTime":3146.43,"body":"say, where I'd say like, I work"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3146.43,"endTime":3149.1,"body":"for Sodexo, which is a contract"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3146.43,"endTime":3149.1,"body":"food service company in a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3149.1,"endTime":3152.52,"body":"retirement community. And they"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3149.1,"endTime":3152.52,"body":"just kind of look at you like, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3152.52,"endTime":3156.87,"body":"thought you were cool, you know?"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3152.52,"endTime":3156.87,"body":"And it's like, No, no, like, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3156.87,"endTime":3160.44,"body":"know, and it took a long time, a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3156.87,"endTime":3160.44,"body":"long time for me to come to"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3160.44,"endTime":3163.35,"body":"terms with being comfortable"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3160.44,"endTime":3163.35,"body":"with who I am, professionally"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3163.35,"endTime":3167.16,"body":"and how I self identify. But"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3163.35,"endTime":3167.16,"body":"there's so many more of us. I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3167.16,"endTime":3169.98,"body":"think if you looked at all the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3167.16,"endTime":3169.98,"body":"people in all aspects of food"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3169.98,"endTime":3172.8,"body":"and beverage, there's more of us"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3169.98,"endTime":3172.8,"body":"than restaurant cooks and chefs"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3172.83,"endTime":3173.46,"body":"maybe,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3173.94,"endTime":3175.08,"body":"especially right"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3173.94,"endTime":3175.08,"body":"now,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3175.11,"endTime":3177.18,"body":"especially right"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3175.11,"endTime":3177.18,"body":"now, there's so many so many"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3177.18,"endTime":3179.22,"body":"even restaurant chefs are now"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3177.18,"endTime":3179.22,"body":"Chefs Without Restaurants."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3179.22,"endTime":3180.06,"body":"Unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3180.36,"endTime":3183.63,"body":"we aren't we I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3180.36,"endTime":3183.63,"body":"mean, think about this, those of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3183.63,"endTime":3187.41,"body":"us who do food work outside of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3183.63,"endTime":3187.41,"body":"brick and mortar. You know, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3187.41,"endTime":3192.36,"body":"I've said 1000 million times"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3187.41,"endTime":3192.36,"body":"that, for a lot of us chefs of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3192.36,"endTime":3196.47,"body":"color being without a brick and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3192.36,"endTime":3196.47,"body":"mortar is because of a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3196.47,"endTime":3200.16,"body":"things that come from systemic"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3196.47,"endTime":3200.16,"body":"racism. Mm hmm. But I mean, if"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3200.16,"endTime":3203.73,"body":"you just take that out by"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3200.16,"endTime":3203.73,"body":"itself, you know, we're the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3203.73,"endTime":3206.16,"body":"barbecue man. On the side of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3203.73,"endTime":3206.16,"body":"road, were the people who do"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3206.16,"endTime":3209.94,"body":"like the the pop up dinner in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3206.16,"endTime":3209.94,"body":"the middle of a field at a"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3210.57,"endTime":3215.01,"body":"southern farm with picnic"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3210.57,"endTime":3215.01,"body":"tables. You know, we've been"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3215.01,"endTime":3219.6,"body":"able to use these these survival"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3215.01,"endTime":3219.6,"body":"methods passed down from the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3219.6,"endTime":3223.65,"body":"past generations to be able to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3219.6,"endTime":3223.65,"body":"weather this pandemic and in its"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3223.77,"endTime":3227.52,"body":"financial aftermath. In ways"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3223.77,"endTime":3227.52,"body":"other people aren't. And I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3228.15,"endTime":3232.29,"body":"as long as chefs and restaurants"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3228.15,"endTime":3232.29,"body":"depend on a certain amount of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3232.29,"endTime":3237.21,"body":"cachet based on the history, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3232.29,"endTime":3237.21,"body":"food, the culture, the people."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3238.05,"endTime":3241.53,"body":"I'm not going out of business no"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3238.05,"endTime":3241.53,"body":"time soon. Mm hmm. Because there"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3241.53,"endTime":3245.19,"body":"are other things. I mean, your"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3241.53,"endTime":3245.19,"body":"grandma needs to eat. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3245.19,"endTime":3249.09,"body":"therefore there needs to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3245.19,"endTime":3249.09,"body":"somebody who is a competent chef"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3249.12,"endTime":3252.06,"body":"with the nutritionist background"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3249.12,"endTime":3252.06,"body":"is going to be able to be there"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3252.06,"endTime":3257.85,"body":"for her. And by the way, people,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3252.06,"endTime":3257.85,"body":"everybody can't cook. So people"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3257.85,"endTime":3261.24,"body":"do need personal chefs, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3257.85,"endTime":3261.24,"body":"culinary systems to get them"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3261.24,"endTime":3266.22,"body":"through that. And by the way, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3261.24,"endTime":3266.22,"body":"have cultural and societal ills"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3266.22,"endTime":3271.59,"body":"it can only be healed through"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3266.22,"endTime":3271.59,"body":"through mutual awareness. and"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3271.59,"endTime":3275.49,"body":"cultural literacy. That's where"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3271.59,"endTime":3275.49,"body":"I come in. On top of just being"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3275.49,"endTime":3279.36,"body":"Agrio or in West Africa. That's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3275.49,"endTime":3279.36,"body":"that's the the French gloss the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3279.36,"endTime":3283.26,"body":"word for storyteller for"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3279.36,"endTime":3283.26,"body":"generations that have been cut"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3283.26,"endTime":3285.42,"body":"off. I mean, that's why I did"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3283.26,"endTime":3285.42,"body":"what I did. And it's why I do"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3285.42,"endTime":3289.35,"body":"what I do is because I want to"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3285.42,"endTime":3289.35,"body":"tell stories about people like"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3289.35,"endTime":3292.35,"body":"myself who are outliers, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3289.35,"endTime":3292.35,"body":"also, you know, massive amounts"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3292.35,"endTime":3296.31,"body":"of people whose story was never"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3292.35,"endTime":3296.31,"body":"taught to people in school. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3296.31,"endTime":3299.49,"body":"know, if people understood the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3296.31,"endTime":3299.49,"body":"story of just, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3299.49,"endTime":3302.76,"body":"things that took But the cooking"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3299.49,"endTime":3302.76,"body":"gene they would understand black"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3302.76,"endTime":3305.13,"body":"history from a far different"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3302.76,"endTime":3305.13,"body":"perspective and excuse me"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3305.13,"endTime":3308.16,"body":"American history from Verdun"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3305.13,"endTime":3308.16,"body":"perspective than what they got"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3308.16,"endTime":3308.7,"body":"growing up."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3308.76,"endTime":3311.31,"body":"I didn't get any"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3308.76,"endTime":3311.31,"body":"you know, in New England, you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3311.31,"endTime":3313.47,"body":"learn more about the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3311.31,"endTime":3313.47,"body":"Revolutionary War than the Civil"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3313.47,"endTime":3316.29,"body":"War, like I'm sure I learned"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3313.47,"endTime":3316.29,"body":"somewhat about the Civil War,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3316.29,"endTime":3320.61,"body":"but I didn't really know much"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3316.29,"endTime":3320.61,"body":"about that much about the South."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3321.03,"endTime":3326.55,"body":"We had one African American,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3321.03,"endTime":3326.55,"body":"maybe two in my graduating class"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3326.55,"endTime":3330.39,"body":"at my high school of like, 250"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3326.55,"endTime":3330.39,"body":"kids, like, I just didn't, I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3330.39,"endTime":3334.29,"body":"didn't grow up have any having"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3330.39,"endTime":3334.29,"body":"any black friends or experience"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3334.29,"endTime":3337.89,"body":"with like, black culture or any"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3334.29,"endTime":3337.89,"body":"of that. And it was a good long"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3337.89,"endTime":3339.96,"body":"time before I even encountered"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3337.89,"endTime":3339.96,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3340.59,"endTime":3343.77,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3340.59,"endTime":3343.77,"body":"don't, I didn't even think about"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3343.77,"endTime":3348.63,"body":"that till I met a group of kids"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3343.77,"endTime":3348.63,"body":"that I was doing a program for"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3348.84,"endTime":3353.31,"body":"high school kids from Alaska, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3348.84,"endTime":3353.31,"body":"didn't realize that. First of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3353.31,"endTime":3357.87,"body":"all, being on the East Coast is"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3353.31,"endTime":3357.87,"body":"being on the East Coast, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3357.87,"endTime":3360.09,"body":"have access to a lot,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3357.87,"endTime":3360.09,"body":"particularly if you live in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3360.09,"endTime":3365.64,"body":"DMV, the Revolutionary War, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3360.09,"endTime":3365.64,"body":"Civil War. All of that is right"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3365.64,"endTime":3368.73,"body":"there. You know, if you don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3365.64,"endTime":3368.73,"body":"realize that somebody in"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3368.73,"endTime":3374.49,"body":"Massachusetts has a much less,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3368.73,"endTime":3374.49,"body":"you know, visceral understanding"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3374.52,"endTime":3383.49,"body":"of Antietam or Manassas. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3374.52,"endTime":3383.49,"body":"know, then then you do all that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3383.49,"endTime":3387.24,"body":"for them Bunker Hill and you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3383.49,"endTime":3387.24,"body":"know, Boston calm and all these"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3387.24,"endTime":3390.36,"body":"other and the harbor where the"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3387.24,"endTime":3390.36,"body":"tea was thrown in, is right"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3390.36,"endTime":3393.45,"body":"there. Yes. It's something that"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3390.36,"endTime":3393.45,"body":"you go you go Hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3394.349,"endTime":3396.629,"body":"So my one time from"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3394.349,"endTime":3396.629,"body":"a place called Marlborough,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3396.629,"endTime":3400.979,"body":"Massachusetts, and we have this"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3396.629,"endTime":3400.979,"body":"thing called the john brown bell"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3401.039,"endTime":3404.909,"body":"in Marlboro. And I can say"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3401.039,"endTime":3404.909,"body":"without a doubt, nobody really"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3404.909,"endTime":3408.239,"body":"cares about this thing. Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3404.909,"endTime":3408.239,"body":"It's really sad because now I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3408.239,"endTime":3411.629,"body":"live by Harpers Ferry. When you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3408.239,"endTime":3411.629,"body":"go to Harpers Ferry, there's a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3411.629,"endTime":3415.859,"body":"building there, and it has the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3411.629,"endTime":3415.859,"body":"old firehouse or whatever it is,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3415.859,"endTime":3419.849,"body":"and the bell is missing. The"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3415.859,"endTime":3419.849,"body":"troops that came down from"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3419.849,"endTime":3422.939,"body":"walbro were actually told that"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3419.849,"endTime":3422.939,"body":"they could keep whatever they"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3422.939,"endTime":3425.609,"body":"found when they came down here"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3422.939,"endTime":3425.609,"body":"when they fought and they took"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3425.639,"endTime":3430.199,"body":"the bell, the bell that john"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3425.639,"endTime":3430.199,"body":"brown rang in Harpers Ferry, and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3430.199,"endTime":3433.289,"body":"it was dragged back from Harpers"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3430.199,"endTime":3433.289,"body":"Ferry up to Marlborough,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3433.289,"endTime":3436.109,"body":"Massachusetts, where it still"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3433.289,"endTime":3436.109,"body":"lays I'm have the feeling that"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3436.109,"endTime":3438.299,"body":"this is something that needs to"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3436.109,"endTime":3438.299,"body":"come back down here to the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3438.299,"endTime":3441.449,"body":"south. It's a missing piece. But"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3438.299,"endTime":3441.449,"body":"it's been this battle for a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3441.449,"endTime":3444.569,"body":"number of years. I didn't even"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3441.449,"endTime":3444.569,"body":"know that until I moved down"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3444.569,"endTime":3449.129,"body":"here. I mean, like 10 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3444.569,"endTime":3449.129,"body":"yeah, they, they wanted it for"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3449.129,"endTime":3451.499,"body":"the front of their fire truck"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3449.129,"endTime":3451.499,"body":"and mall, bro. So these guys"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3451.499,"endTime":3454.049,"body":"came down here to fight. And"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3451.499,"endTime":3454.049,"body":"we're told Yeah, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3454.049,"endTime":3456.719,"body":"spoils of war, whatever you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3454.049,"endTime":3456.719,"body":"find, you can bring, and they"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3456.719,"endTime":3460.679,"body":"brought the bell back. And I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3456.719,"endTime":3460.679,"body":"guess it went on a fire truck in"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3460.679,"endTime":3463.019,"body":"Marlborough for a number of"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3460.679,"endTime":3463.019,"body":"years, like way back when and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3463.019,"endTime":3466.319,"body":"now it's in this tower that's"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3463.019,"endTime":3466.319,"body":"guarded with like security"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3466.319,"endTime":3469.319,"body":"alarms and everything, because I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3466.319,"endTime":3469.319,"body":"think people have tried to steal"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3469.319,"endTime":3471.659,"body":"it. But they are still standing"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3469.319,"endTime":3471.659,"body":"their ground that this is"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3471.659,"endTime":3475.559,"body":"something that they rightfully"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3471.659,"endTime":3475.559,"body":"deserve or earned, or whatever"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3475.559,"endTime":3477.929,"body":"that is. And I just think it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3475.559,"endTime":3477.929,"body":"so sad because I go to Harpers"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3477.929,"endTime":3480.749,"body":"Ferry all the time with my kids."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3477.929,"endTime":3480.749,"body":"And every time I look up now and"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3480.749,"endTime":3483.389,"body":"see this thing where the bell"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3480.749,"endTime":3483.389,"body":"should have been, I think like,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3483.419,"endTime":3486.089,"body":"how can I help facilitate"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3483.419,"endTime":3486.089,"body":"getting this back? I don't know"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3486.089,"endTime":3490.379,"body":"if I can if I have that ability,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3486.089,"endTime":3490.379,"body":"but I just feel like, Man, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3490.379,"endTime":3491.129,"body":"just not right."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3491.67,"endTime":3496.38,"body":"And I've never"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3491.67,"endTime":3496.38,"body":"heard of this. Oh, wow."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3496.53,"endTime":3499.35,"body":"Yeah. Incredible."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3496.53,"endTime":3499.35,"body":"So that's my Massachusetts tie"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3499.35,"endTime":3501.87,"body":"to the south and civil war."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3499.35,"endTime":3501.87,"body":"That's, that's,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3501.9,"endTime":3505.26,"body":"you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3501.9,"endTime":3505.26,"body":"incredible. Wow, I can't I can't"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3505.26,"endTime":3505.65,"body":"deal."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3505.86,"endTime":3508.11,"body":"Well, I really want"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3505.86,"endTime":3508.11,"body":"to thank you for coming on the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3508.11,"endTime":3510.39,"body":"show. I know we're getting"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3508.11,"endTime":3510.39,"body":"towards the end of time. And I"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3510.39,"endTime":3513.54,"body":"just wanted to say how much of a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3510.39,"endTime":3513.54,"body":"pleasure it's been I've really"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3513.54,"endTime":3517.17,"body":"enjoyed your work. I've you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3513.54,"endTime":3517.17,"body":"know, read the the blog and the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3517.17,"endTime":3520.74,"body":"book. And yeah, I hope you"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3517.17,"endTime":3520.74,"body":"enjoyed coming on talking with"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3520.74,"endTime":3521.01,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3521.67,"endTime":3524.1,"body":"Oh, this is"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3521.67,"endTime":3524.1,"body":"fantastic. Now we were kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3524.1,"endTime":3528.39,"body":"over it. We're kind of overdue"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3524.1,"endTime":3528.39,"body":"for a big discussion. And, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3528.39,"endTime":3535.14,"body":"know, you know, hopefully, once"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3528.39,"endTime":3535.14,"body":"the, you know, the Rona. We can"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3535.14,"endTime":3537.6,"body":"we can have we can have a face"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3535.14,"endTime":3537.6,"body":"to face and cook together like"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3537.6,"endTime":3537.96,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3538.17,"endTime":3541.11,"body":"Yeah, it's uh, the"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3538.17,"endTime":3541.11,"body":"road has been a weird time. But"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3541.11,"endTime":3544.71,"body":"I'm, I'm optimistic that we're"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3541.11,"endTime":3544.71,"body":"maybe starting to wind down my"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3544.71,"endTime":3548.58,"body":"wife goes to get her second"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3544.71,"endTime":3548.58,"body":"vaccination shot in a week. But"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3548.58,"endTime":3549.9,"body":"I think we still have a long"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3548.58,"endTime":3549.9,"body":"ways to go."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3550.829,"endTime":3554.489,"body":"Oh, very cool."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3550.829,"endTime":3554.489,"body":"Very cool. Very cool. You know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3554.759,"endTime":3559.559,"body":"we're, we have a long way to go."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3554.759,"endTime":3559.559,"body":"But I'm glad that something is"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3559.559,"endTime":3560.549,"body":"happening. Good."},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3561.73,"endTime":3565.12,"body":"And I still haven't gotten mine"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3561.73,"endTime":3565.12,"body":"yet. And I can't wait to because"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3565.12,"endTime":3569.08,"body":"I really just want this to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Twitty","startTime":3565.12,"endTime":3569.08,"body":"over. All right. All right."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3569.11,"endTime":3571.39,"body":"Well, to all our"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3569.11,"endTime":3571.39,"body":"listeners. Thanks so much. This"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3571.39,"endTime":3574.03,"body":"has been the Chefs Without"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3571.39,"endTime":3574.03,"body":"Restaurants podcast. As always,"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3574.03,"endTime":3577.48,"body":"you can find us at Chefs Without"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3574.03,"endTime":3577.48,"body":"restaurants.com and.org and on"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3577.48,"endTime":3580.21,"body":"all social media platforms."},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3577.48,"endTime":3580.21,"body":"Thanks so much, and have a great"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3580.21,"endTime":3582.85,"body":"week. Thank you. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3580.21,"endTime":3582.85,"body":"listening to the Chefs Without"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3582.85,"endTime":3585.58,"body":"Restaurants podcast. And if"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3582.85,"endTime":3585.58,"body":"you're interested in being a"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3585.58,"endTime":3589.66,"body":"guest on the show, or sponsoring"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3585.58,"endTime":3589.66,"body":"the show, please let us know. We"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3589.66,"endTime":3592.66,"body":"can be reached at"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3589.66,"endTime":3592.66,"body":"ChefsWithoutrestaurants@gmail.com"},{"speaker":"Chris Spear","startTime":3593.74,"endTime":3594.67,"body":"Thanks so much."}]}