The Ikigai Podcast
The Ikigai Podcast
Embracing AI Opportunities for a Meaningful Life with Kouji Miki
Have you incorporated AI into your work?
AI tools have been garnering attention today due to their ability to expedite tasks. While some express concern about the rapid increase of these tools, others find them beneficial, simplifying their work and making it more efficient.
In this episode of the Ikigai Podcast, Nick discusses with Kouji Miki the significance of AI in providing more opportunities to discover meaningful ikigai activities.
Hey it is Nick Kemp here from IkigaiTribe.com, just before we get into this episode I wanted to let you know I am running a Ikigai Workshop Webinar this month. The workshop is 2-hours long and covers the work of pioneering ikigai researcher Mieko Kamiya. We look at her definition of ikigai and her 7 ikigai needs.
If you are interested go to https://ikigaitribe.com/ikigai-workshop
My personal idea is to transform, consciously or personally. I mean, when I start Zazen and Zazen helped me a lot, so I want to help other people by doing Zen or mindfulness, so I'd like to bring these people to this world I mean the Zen world, mindfulness world as much as possible. So this is my Ikigai. So that's the reason why I start Zen school, which is an innovation school based on Zen philosophy. I also start Zen 2.0. This post project is my Ikigai.
Nick:My guest today on episode 73 of the Ikigai Podcast is Kouji Miki. Kouji specializes in Zen based coaching for executives and CEOs, and Kouji earned a master degree in media and governance, specializing in strategic innovation theory, from Keio University and started his career at Fujitsu Limited. Kouji has been consulting small and medium- sized manufacturers in Japan for over 20 years and has had over 12 years of experience in Zen meditation and five years of experience with Vipassana meditation. Kouji coaches CEOs using Zen and mindfulness based awareness and dialogue in the virtual reality space. He is co-founder of Zen 2.0, a conference on Zen and mindfulness that attracts speakers from around the world, and he is also the author of two books: Let's Start Micro-Monozukuri and True Innovation: How to create innovation through Zen- like dialogue. Welcome to the podcast, Kouji. Thank you for joining me today.
Kouji:Thank you for inviting me to this podcast.
Nick:That's my pleasure and we should mention we also have someone helping us today. So that's Naoko Tomita. So hello, Naoko.
Naoko:Hello everyone.
Nick:Yes, we might call on you if we need some help. So thank you for that. So, yes, Kouji, we connected on LinkedIn a few months ago and you were busy promoting your Zen 2.0 conference. That's obviously on Zen and mindfulness and that attracts speakers from all around the world, and a few of your speakers have been guests on my podcast, Ken Mogi and Steven Murphy-S higem atsu. So do you want to talk about that conference? How long have you been holding it and what is the goal of that conference?
Kouji:Actually, the project starts from 2015. I lost my job because of the huge economic shock in 2009. I had a bad mental condition, so I have to recover from my mental illness, that is why I started Zen meditation in my house. Three months of meditation, I became fine and I started my own business. So I have a gratitude feeling for Zen Buddhism. That's the reason why I started Zen 2.0 to express my gratitude for Zen.
Nick:I see. So that's quite an amazing story. The financial crisis came along, you lost your employment, you fell into depression or had struggled with some mental health issues. So why do you think you moved to Zen rather than, let's say, maybe other options like medication or counseling? What was appealing about Zen?
Kouji:I thought when I had a mental illness, I think I should go to the hospital, but I was afraid of addiction of mental drugs. That's the reason why I started searching how to cure by myself. I started searching with many keywords like mental illness, how to stabilize my mind or something like that. I found some books and also found meditation or Zen on the internet. So I searched YouTube about how to do meditation. First I could find some meditation video of Japanese monks. But in Zen Buddhism tradition, there is the rule that they don't talk about Zen itself. So I don't know how to concentrate on meditation. But I finally found the video on how to do Zen meditation. It was created by an American guy. He was living in Japan for maybe more than 10 years. In this video, he talked about how to do meditation in a very attractive way. So I started to do Zen meditation.
Nick:Well, that's interesting. You learned, say, traditional Japanese cultural concepts from an American. Maybe that made the learning process more interesting, and so specifically we're talking about Zazen.
Kouji:Zazen, yes.
Nick:So does that mean seated meditation, or what does that mean?
Kouji:Yeah, seated meditation with open eyes.
Nick:So you don't close your eyes.
Kouji:Yeah, you don't close eyes and focus on the tatami floor.
Nick:So that seems to be an important role in your professional life and personal life. So do you practice Zazen meditation every day?
Kouji:Every day I woke up 5:30 in the morning, and I like an incense. So I light my favorite incense first, then good smell, and after that I do Zazen meditation for one hour.
Nick:Wow, an hour, okay. And so after you do that meditation, do you feel centered and relaxed and free in your mind?
Kouji:Yeah, in the very first stage of my Zazen experience, I was afraid of how to manage my money. Because you know I lost my job, I don't have to pay my rent or something like that. But I get used to this kind of illusion. This is just an illusion and just floating in front of my mind. I imagine a big river, and this kind of worry is coming from upstream and go downstream-- just passing.
Nick:Just a passing thought. Okay, that's a nice visual metaphor.
Kouji:Yeah, so I get used to this kind of worry about money or something. After that I just really focus on my tatami floor. But sometimes there is some illusion about my business or something like that. So during my Z azen meditation, sometimes I hit up on many business ideas. So near my side there's a notebook and take a note about my business ideas.
Nick:Oh, wow, okay. So it kind of triggered your creative mind as well, to think of business ideas. I might try that now. I'll start doing some meditation as well. Well, this is interesting because our theme today in a way, might even contradict this idea of meditation, because we're talking about AI and ikigai, and you have written several articles on AI and ikigai on medium. com in English and I'd like to quote you. So let's start with ikigai. You write: 'The Japanese definition of ikigai does not necessarily focus on being needed by society or earning money, but rather on an individual's inner joy and satisfaction, where the individual is genuinely excited and wants to continue the activity, no matter who stops him or her. This represents a unique understanding of ikigai that reflects the cultural background and values of Japan.' That's very interesting, especially tying it to Japan's cultural background and values. So do you want to talk about the values of Japan in the context of ikigai?
Kouji:Yeah, two weeks ago, I happened to read an article about an older person who is working for McDonald's.
Nick:Yeah, in McDonald's. You sent me the video, yes.
Kouji:But now as a cleaner, and he is very active even if he's 95 years old. Actually, he got the job at age of 90.
Nick:Oh wow, at McDonald's.
Kouji:Almost five years. And according to this article, he is really enjoying his job, even if it is doesn't have a nice salary and also it's night shift, but he's really enjoying his job. In Japanese society this is kind of a type of ikigai. So nobody thanks him for cleaning McDonald's.
Kouji:He's really focusing on his job, cleaning the space--o nly one thing. So by reading this article, my ikigai is also very close to him. Because every year I set up a big conference, the Zen 2. 0 in Kamakura City, and there are many work to do: advertising, preparing a website, and negotiation with the speakers and temples and the City, asking a sponsor for companies, and selling the ticket or something like that-- many, many jobs. I'm not in front of the participants, so I have no chance to have a contact with the participants, so nobody says anything to me, but I'm really focusing on creating my conference. So this is my ikigai, and it's very close to the 95- year old cleaner in McDonald's.
Nick:I see. So, yeah, this is two interesting examples. So you have the 95- year- old cleaner doing the night shift at McDonald's. So the store's closed, and he's cleaning and mopping and wiping down tables. And, as you said, probably no customers thank him because he has no contact. And I think most people would not want to do that type of work and they would not want to do shift work at the night. But, yeah, you sent me a video and I'll put a link to the video. But he seems very healthy and active and focused, so maybe that work gives him a sense of purpose, shimei-kan, a sense of purpose. It sounds like you have the same feeling. You're very busy organizing your events.
Nick:But, it sounds like you don't present, so you don't give a speech to the participants and so maybe you're behind the scenes. No one knows what you're doing and so you don't have contact directly with the audience. So you might not get thanked, but sounds like that doesn't matter. You just enjoy and find a sense of purpose in organizing the event.
Kouji:And I found that the Japanese people feel this kind of ikigai, it's like craftsmanship, really focusing on making some kind of product, like a Japanese sword. You know, in ancient time in Japan, there is a blacksmith sword maker and he really just focuses on just creating fine sword, fine Japanese sword. And this kind of mind is close to me, also many other Japanese people.
Nick:Yeah, to share with you. My father-in-law is a shokunin, a craftsman. He makes shino-yaki pottery in a small town in Gifu-Ken.
Nick:So he never meets the customer because he sells to a wholesaler. So, yeah, maybe he was never directly thanked either. I think he's 83, and he still makes pottery every day, because he is a crafts person as well. S o yeah, finding a sense of purpose in work and it gives you, maybe it gives you the freedom to express yourself, and it seems really important to the Japanese idea of ikigai.
Kouji:Of course there are some Japanese people who really want to contribute to others' ikigai, but sometimes ikigai is craftmanship, like mine.
Nick:I understand, yeah. Japan has so many fascinating traditional crafts, but there's also modern craft that we see in products or hosting an event. So, yeah, I understand and even in a way, maybe my podcast is something I really enjoy doing. I get to interview interesting people but I have to find the guests and email them and prepare notes and arrange a time. And, yeah, I guess most of my audience just listens and sometimes I get thank yous, but most of the time I don't. So, yeah, I understand that kind of idea of craftsmanship and I really enjoy the work in preparing my podcasts.
Kouji:In such case, there's nothing to do with social position or high salary or something. I think that's a typical type of Japanese ikigai style. So in a Western world, sometimes ikigai connect to the money or social position or something like that. So I think it's kind of weird.
Nick:I was going to ask you what do you think of the Western interpretation and the Venn diagram with the doing something you love, you're good at, that the world needs, and that you can be paid for? Do you think that's just a strange interpretation or do you think it's wrong?
Kouji:In general, for ordinary Japanese people it sounds a little bit weird, strange. Because, of course, for some Japanese people, their ikigai is connected to the money or social position, but it's very small, I think.
Nick:Well, let's talk about AI and how you're using AI and how it is benefiting you. So yeah, do you want to touch on that?
Kouji:I have to prepare the Zen2.0 conference every year. For this event, we got 60 volunteer members, and each person is working for other companies, different companies, so it's very difficult to meet together at once. We sometimes call meeting online, but it's difficult to get 60 people at once. So our problem is how to meet together in one time. So every year we have a weekly meeting online that some volunteer members claiming about there's too many meetings and it take a long time. So we introduce AI meeting memo robot. So during the meeting on the Zoom, this AI, you take a memo by text automatically. But even if the volunteer members who cannot join the meeting, they can read the memo generated by AI. It's very effective.
Nick:Okay, so that's one example.
Kouji:By using generative AI, we can have much more free time that we can use. I think I can use this free time for my ikigai.
Nick:All right. Well, let's touch on that, because you do write that this increase in productivity will bring enormous amounts of extra time, potentially putting workers into two categories: one is the ikigai worker, a traditional Japanese concept of well-being and a factor of finding joy in life, and the other is the worker who has lived a life of work and has excess time on his or her hand. So with this idea of more time and extra time, you've obviously found it helpful. So let's talk about your ikigai sources and the time you now have for them. Do you want to talk about your personal ikigai?
Kouji:Yeah, my personal ikigai is to transform consciously. I mean, when I started Zazen, Zazen helped me a lot, so I want to help other people by doing Zen or mindfulness. I'd like to bring these people to this world, the Zen world or mindfulness world as much as possible. So this is my ikigai. That's the reason why I started the Zen school, which is an innovation school based on Zen philosophy. I also start Zen 2.0, this post project is my ikigai.
Nick:I also read that you do things, like you have dialogue around bonfires at Zaimokuza beach in Kamakura. And you have a sauna tent experience at the base of Mount Fuji, and you also do regular yoga and meditation sessions with friends at Mount Fuji and you also do something called Terakoya, so we might talk about that. So it seems like you do both virtual or online ikigai work, and then you have this offline work, which is maybe more about well-being and mindfulness, that you do with your colleagues. But Terakoya I did not know this word. So what is Terakoya?
Kouji:Terakoya is a closed school in one closer member within a closer member, and this Terakoya started maybe from Edo period in Japan and each member will teach each members. So there is no teacher. So in our Zen 2.0 group there are many coaching specialists or mindfulness specialists or Zen specialists or something like that, so each member can be the teacher and teach other members.
Nick:So it's like a private mastermind almost, but it was back in the Edo period. It was like a form of education, like private schooling, and now,
Nick:I guess it has this modern application. So, yeah, this is interesting. So I've interviewed someone specifically about leisure time on my podcast several times. His name is Dr Shintaro Kono. He's a leisure researcher. So I think leisure is a very strong source of Ikigai, and you believe that with AI we'll have this increase in leisure time and that can improve well-being. But in a country like Japan, where many people work and maybe their work is their ikigai, and they don't know what to do with their free time, if there is an increase in free time, do you think they might struggle with this free time? And if they don't have an ikigai outside of work?
Kouji:Yeah, definitely. I think I'm worrying about if the free time goes up, many people feel like not well because they don't know how to do their leisure time. That's the reason why we have to find our ikigai. So in Zen school, we are helping how to find each person's ikigai in our school.
Nick:I see. Do you think a person can have several ikigai sources? So I think Ken Mogi spoke at your event and his book is about ikigai, The Little Book of Ikigai, and he describes ikigai as a spectrum, it can be many small things. But I've also read other Japanese authors. There was an author called Tsukasa Kobayashi and he said ikigai is jiko-jitsugen, like ikigai is only self-actualization. So there are many different opinions, even in Japan about ikigai. But I think if we have more sources of ikigai, that's probably more beneficial. Do you think?
Kouji:Yeah, I think my idea is close to Ken Mogi. I think ikigai is many spectrums, many small things, but I think one should have very big ikigai and other ikigai, too. So I'm helping make big ikigai for the people.
Nick:Yeah, I understand. I think that's important, too. Maybe with the big ikigai, we have that strong sense of purpose and creative expression and that might also involve helping other people. So you have also embraced AI. You're very positive about AI and many people are worried about AI and they might worry AI might take away their ikigai source. For example, if you're a writer and you love writing and you write for other people, maybe chat GPT is taking away someone's work or writing, so do you think AI might take away someone's ikigai source?
Kouji:Well, I think, if you are a writer, why don't you use chat GPT for writing?
Nick:You can do more writing.
Kouji:If you can write one work in one year by using chat GPT, maybe you can write three or five books in one year.
Nick:Okay, but do you think the chat GPT takes away from the craftsman or craftspersonship of writing?
Kouji:I don't think, because if you read the writing generated by chat GPT, you can learn many things from this article, and in my case I use HeyGen, which is automatic translation AI. I'm not a fluent English speaker, but I upload my video in Japanese and it really translates my English very clear and very correct. Then I watch my video and I learned how to speak in English.
Nick:You sent me a video of you speaking in English.
Nick:Okay, that's one tool. Is that HeyGen? The tool? We'll have a link to that from the show notes. Okay, so AI can be a great learning tool and there are many tools now, not just Chat GPT, and so, with this idea of AI leading to this explosion in work productivity and this increases leisure time and this gives us this opportunity to explore and maybe find more ikigai, you've actually come up with a model or a framework, and you propose the concept of The Golden Circle of AI and Ikigai, so would you like to explain what that is?
Kouji:Yeah, as I mentioned, if you use generative AI, our productivity goes up very dramatically. Also, you have much more leisure time. Then how to use your leisure time? You focusing on your ikigai, like me, in my case, I held International conference every year. I use generative AI to my center point project. So your Ikigai project will be very efficient and impactful for the society, too. So I feel much more satisfaction with my ikigai project
Kouji:and the life will be much richer. This is the Golden Circle of AI and Ikigai.
Nick:Yes, and you, you've created a graphic, so, if it's okay, we'll put that on the website. Yeah, so yeah, this makes sense, because time is the only one resource we're constantly losing. Yeah, we have limited time. It's very hard to create new time, but, as you're sharing with us, AI gives us this opportunity to use our time more productively.
Kouji:Also, I have many opportunities because I wrote my blog in Japanese, but translate this by using DeepL, this translation AI. So I wrote my blog in English by using generative AI, so that's the reason why you contact me?
Nick:Yeah, yeah, so it worked. It was very well written. The articles were very well written. I actually used DeepL to translate from English to Japanese. So, yeah, these are, in a way, they're just tools, very intelligent tools. But they're incredibly powerful and, I mean, I'm thinking a tool like HeyGen, when it's improved, you or I, or Naoko, we could make a course on something, a course on ikigai. And then that could be translated into 20 languages.
Kouji:Actually, I'm trying to make a shorter video of my school by using HeyGen.
Nick:Okay, yeah, you can reach more people in different languages and that's a big step. That's a significant step on reach and connection and what's interesting is it looks like you're speaking that language, because the video morphs your mouth and it sounds very natural, too. So I was very shocked when I saw you speaking English fluently.
Kouji:So you can speak in Japanese very fluently by using HeyGen.
Nick:Okay, I'll try it. So are there any other tools that you could recommend our listeners? So we've got chat GPT, HeyGen, DeepL, Mid journey.
Kouji:Yeah, Midjourney is a special generative AI focusing on creating the picture. So in my blog, there are some images about my article, so I create these pictures by using Mid journey.
Nick:Wow, yeah, I haven't used Mid journey, so maybe I will try it.
Kouji:Hmm.
Nick:I occasionally use chat GPT, but I want to use chat GPT as an education, like almost like a tutor, so it should educate me. But I was using DeepL for a long time. I've been using that for a few years, so that's a very powerful translation tool.
Kouji:And also Vrew, this AI is focusing on creating video. Even if I wrote my blog, there is not such an impact and I copied my blog text and paste to this special generative AI, Vrew. This AI will convert my blog into a video.
Nick:Oh right, so what's that called?
Kouji:view view vrellusion.
Nick:All right, we'll put that in the show notes.
Kouji:Yeah, it creates many videos by using this AI and it is huge.
Nick:Oh, the reaction?
Kouji:Yeah, the reaction on LinkedIn, many people liked my video.
Nick:All right, well, there we go.
Kouji:Because this video is in English.
Nick:Ah, Okay. So yeah, this is interesting. Not only is it making you more productive, but it's expanding your reach to a larger audience. So that's an amazing opportunity, if you're a coach or educator, we can reach more people.
Kouji:Yeah.
Nick:So we actually might, if Naoko doesn't mind, ask Naoko to join us and maybe, Naoko, you could share with us your ikigai, if that's okay. Do you want to join us, Naoko, as we end the podcast?
Naoko:Hello everyone, I'm working with Miki-san, and I am a student of Zen school. I was a student of Zen school and now I am coaching. I became a Zen school master with Miki-san. Well, my ikigai, I was born in Tokyo, raised in Tokyo, middle of Tokyo Shinjuku area, and I just moved to a small town by the street which is called Tateyama in Chiba Prefecture, and I'm trying to create this place, a regenerative place, really the gardening and the house renovation and everything, creating a pure water out from a well water, using rainwater and everything. And I don't know if this is going to make any money or not, but this is really my ikigai and I want to pass this little place to a next generation, to letting people know that human being is not only disrupting the environment, but we can create a better place, just like other animals we are living being on this earth, all together with other lives. So this is really my ikigai.
Nick:Nice.
Naoko:I'm very happy that I found this.
Nick:So this is almost you returning to nature, to the natural world, and I think that relates to two things maybe. So I think Shintoism. Shintoism has strong bond with nature and understands man cannot control nature. Man is a part of nature. Is it also related to Satoyama? Are you living near a border between village and mountains?
Naoko:Well, yes, kind of, but I'm more closer to the Ocean. The Chiba has very low mountains. It's a place that is raised from the ocean. But anyway, it has something to do with Satoyama as well, but maybe I shall say that I'm working on Satofield more than yama. Yama means mountain and I'm surrounded by rice fields.
Nick:So that's interesting because that's an entire lifestyle change, from a busy city to, I guess, a slower life, but maybe you're doing more active and physical work.
Naoko:Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.
Nick:Well, maybe we should get together and maybe I could interview you about your ikigai and the lifestyle change. So let's have a chat later and maybe, if you want to, you could be a guest on the podcast, too.
Naoko:Thank you, I'm not up for liberty or anything, but if that's ordinary Japanese and how they feel about ikigai, I can talk about it.
Nick:Yeah, that's very important. So I try to interview anyone and everyone who loves ikigai. So thank you. Thank you for your help today. So let's end, Kouji. How can people find you? Do you have a website, and I know you have a profile and presence on LinkedIn.
Kouji:Yeah, I have a profile in LinkedIn. I also have my company's website, Zen School. I also have Zen 2. 0 website, too.
Nick:Ok, and so the next conference will be next year.
Kouji:Next year, yeah.
Nick:All right. Well, hopefully I'll attend in person next year.
Kouji:Yeah, yeah, of course. Please come to Japan, Kamakura.
Nick:Thank you so much for your time today.
Kouji:Thank you very much for inviting me in this wonderful opportunity. Thank you.
Nick:My pleasure.