The Ikigai Podcast
The Ikigai Podcast
Creating Meaningful Messages through Calligraphy with Naoko Mikami
How does one express the self with ink, brush and paper?
Many people view calligraphy simply as an art form that showcases beautiful handwriting. However, it is more than just elegant writing; it is a profound way to convey meaningful messages.
In this episode of the Ikigai Podcast, Nick speaks with Naoko Mikami about how calligraphy goes beyond aesthetics to express deep thoughts and emotions.
When I started to do calligraphy again, I focused a lot on design. I even mixed painting for a while. Drawing painting, I also focused on some technical aspects of using the brush, but then at some point I realized that maybe that was not how it was supposed to be done. When you think about calligraphy in the past, like Edo period or before, it is very different from what we see nowadays, I think. And now many calligraphers tend to go more and more abstract, focusing on lines and flow, and to me it seems that we are losing the meaning of calligraphy.
Nick:My guest today on the Ikigai Podcast is Naoko Mikami, a leading calligrapher and translator in the field of Japanese martial arts and traditional culture. Naoko creates calligraphy for dojos, businesses, and meditation centers in Japan and abroad. She frequently collaborates with martial arts federations and prominent publications focused on Budo, Zen, and wellness. Her work can be found in public and private spaces throughout the world. A former director of Art Curator Japan, an initiative that aimed at promoting Japanese artists internationally, Naoko nowadays works primarily on her own calligraphy career. Naoko, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for joining me today.
Naoko:Thank you for having me, Nick. I saw your website and the number of interviews you've made. That was pretty impressive.
Naoko:Thank you for your passion for this Japanese concept, ikigai. NICK:Yes, it it's my ikigai actually exploring, researching ikigai, and I have these, you know, inspiring and wonderful conversations with japanese and non-japanese about ikigai. And I have these, you know, inspiring and wonderful conversations with Japanese and non-Japanese about Ikigai and Japanese culture in general. So it's a real honor always. So thank you for being here.
Naoko:And yeah, as you know, I stumbled upon your amazing calligraphy via LinkedIn, but I was also really impressed by your explanations, these insightful explanations and stories related to the proverbs and words that you brush, and I've already learned so much from you. So would you like to share your journey to becoming a professional calligrapher?
Naoko:Yes, I don't remember exactly. I think I was around seven when I started calligraphy. My cousin started to go to a small private calligraphy school in town, so I wanted to join them. Actually, at the same time they started learning classical ballet too and I really, really wanted to do it rather than calligraphy, but my parents didn't say okay to ballet I suspect that they couldn't afford ballet Anyway. So I just went calligraphy with my cousins and I think I wasn't a passionate student.
Naoko:First of all, I didn't like the school because it smelled bad. It smelled heavily ink, very bad. Now that I think about it, I realize it was the smell of rotting ink. Ink is made with soot and animal glue. It can mold or rot. I see, yeah, the expensive ink use high-quality instances and typically smell nice, but this high temperature and humidity can ruin them. So when you handle the Japanese ink, better to be careful. Okay, I didn't know all this. Wow, anyway, I remember the rotting ink smell and I didn't like it. And I also remember that there were no hot water in the school so we needed to clean the brush with cold water and my hands got damaged in winter, so cold. Also, I remember the teacher was not very adapted young kids. The class was not very interesting to me.
Naoko:Sounds like a bad start. Yeah Sounds like a bad start. Yeah, At the time also, we needed to do calligraphy at a subject in elementary school and I was scolded by a teacher in front of everyone your calligraphy is not. That is not good at all. Really, that hurt me a lot.
Nick:Oh, wow, okay.
Naoko:So, naturally, very quickly I hated calligraphy and I quit. My calligraphy career was over after a very short period, I see, but fortunately because my parents were busy all the time. I was raised by my grandmother. She was a poet and calligrapher. So she taught me calligraphy Nice yeah. Taught me calligraphy Nice yeah. And she was strict, but at least her ink smelled good Good. She was patient very much, so I studied with her for a long time Good memory.
Nick:She was obviously perhaps a more generous and kind teacher yes, I think so, she.
Naoko:She motivated to me better than others. So, and then I became a teenager. I started to be mostly interested in Western culture, like movies, music, literature, fashion. So I kind of put aside calligraphy again. Then my first job I was a staff at International Budo University, which is a very famous place in Japan for martial arts. The thing is that I couldn't do calligraphy anymore because I was busy with work, but on the other hand, I met many famous Japanese historians and also martial arts experts. Sometimes I helped them with their projects, and so many years I was immersed by this old samurai culture, history and Japanese traditions. Wow, yes, that was fun. Although I didn't do calligraphy anymore, I had the opportunity to learn many philosophical aspects about japan, but working in japanese company, you know it's very hard, yes, yeah, Relationship inefficiency, conservativeness, too much stress, Too much stress.
Naoko:So I decided to quit and luckily I could quit and went to Taiwan. New World, yay, Wow. Taiwan new world, yay, wow. At first, in Taiwan, I was a bit lost. After serving company for many years, this total freedom confused me Really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know what to do, but I was surrounded by people in art world and they pushed me to do calligraphy again. I hesitated for a while, but anyway I decided to do.
Nick:Nice.
Naoko:Then I started a different project related to art and calligraphy Art Curator Japan. I see, and I did my first major exhibition in France in 2018, I think, and I really didn't know what to expect but, to my surprise, I sold everything. Oh, really, wow, yes, that's great. That's where I decided to do this full time.
Nick:Yeah that would have been a very affirming, life-affirming and wonderful experience to sell all your work Like that's. The hardest thing of an artist is to sell their work.
Naoko:Yes, exactly, the hardest thing of an artist is to sell their work. Yes, exactly, I didn't expect much, but you know.
Nick:Well, that's a fascinating history. So maybe you were born to do calligraphy.
Naoko:I don't know, but I hope so.
Nick:And actually behind you, I'm assuming, is that one of your works?
Naoko:ah, yes, uh, can I talk about this? Yeah, please do yeah, okay, this is a piece consisting of four scrolls called with heaven's help. I wanted to put all the scrolls here, but too bad, my wall is not big enough. Oh too bad. Anyway, this character represents heaven. This whole piece in Japanese. Basically, it means putting everything on the line in one big gamble.
Nick:Oh wow, Risky goal yeah.
Naoko:In life there is always a moment when you face big risk, this kenkom iteki moment. But this moment doesn't just appear out of nowhere. You have to work hard and prepare to know when to take that leap, when you are kind of all you, all you can and are ready to take the gamble. That's when you get help from above.
Nick:I see, yeah, I think that's true.
Naoko:Yeah, yeah yeah, and each character in the piece shows its own strength and together they create a powerful pull. It's all about personal growth, working with your environment and getting ready for the big challenges in life.
Nick:Wow.
Naoko:I love this word and I love this piece.
Nick:Nice, thank you. Is this Yoji Jukugo? Is this a four-character program? Yes, yes, yes, all right, we'll have to include it in the show notes because it sounds very profound and philosophical.
Naoko:Yes, yes, yeah.
Nick:So you have a very looks like a very freeing cursive style of calligraphy, so perhaps we could talk about that. How long did it take for you to find your style Actually?
Naoko:it took some time to come here. So when I started to do calligraphy again, I focused a lot on design. I even mixed painting for a while drawing, painting, drawing painting. I also focused on some technical aspects of using the brush, but then at some point I realized that maybe that was not how it was supposed to be done. When you think about calligraphy in the past, like Edo period or before, it is very different from what we see nowadays, I think. And now many calligraphers tend to go more and more abstract, focusing on lines and flow, and to me it seems that we are losing the meaning of calligraphy. In the past, calligraphy was simpler the message was the most important thing, not the picture effect, not the aesthetics. We can even debate calligraphy was even considered as art or not. I decided to go back to that spirit.
Nick:Wonderful.
Naoko:Sure, you can appreciate calligraphy as an art form, especially if you don't read kanji. That's the only way you can appreciate it. I think it's a beautiful thing, but if you can read kanji, the meaning should be the most important thing. A long time ago, samurai, warlords, nobility and monks they all had calligraphy where they lived, where they worked. Why? Because the message on the calligraphy was important. Because the message on the calligraphy was important. The message was supposed to make them reflect on what they did, on their life, and the message could make their motivation higher. The message is all about the message. I'm trying to achieve the same thing with what I do now. The message should empower the person who owns the calligraphy. So, yes, it took me some time to get here.
Nick:Well, it's interesting because you've had your own personal journey from having these sort of bad experiences when you're younger and not really enjoying calligraphy, and then rediscovering it. You're also going back to the roots of calligraphy, where it's not really an art. It's this expression of something meaningful, but it's a very beautiful way to convey a message Exactly. And even if you cannot read calligraphy, there is something about the balance of white space and these, the flow of the strokes that's very appealing. And then, if you can read it yeah, like my one, kokoroz it is this reminder for me to pursue what I care about and keep learning, keep growing and maintain my motivation and have my ambition. So I guess I relate Kokorozashi to my business, so I'm always looking to learn from people and have guests and now.
Nick:I'm going to be doing retreats, so this is a lovely reminder to, oh yeah, keep believing in myself and keep believing in what I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so attractive, the kanji you and other artists brush or draw. It's very. I feel like I can sense something because it is at the same time abstract when you cannot read it, but you can feel this idea of flow, like the flow of your brush is captured in the ink. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you kind of feel it. So it's beautiful in so many ways the simplicity but conveying meaning behind these proverbs or expressions.
Naoko:I love calligraphy because they have a lot of white blank space. That's beautiful it is beautiful yeah. I love it too.
Nick:Let's talk about you as the artist. You have an artist name, which is Fumi, so what does that name mean?
Naoko:Yes, thank you for asking this question. I'm happy to answer.
Nick:I'm excited to hear the answer.
Naoko:Fumi means not beautiful. So many people ask me why I chose this name, especially in Taiwan, because we use mostly same kanji, so they understand the meaning and why I chose this strange name, they wondered. Well, in Japanese calligraphy world people tend to choose very stylish, elegant, beautiful, sometimes even snobbish calligrapher name. I see, yeah, I always find it kind of stupid, so sorry my language, so I decided to go punk instead.
Nick:That's not uncommon for artists to go against. I guess the main, you know, conservative ideals and express themselves with. I'm going to go against this and I have a different perspective or a different idea.
Naoko:Yes, yeah, that's why I chose Hume, and also I tend to suffer from very strong imposter syndrome, so choosing Hume not beautiful as a calligrapher name was very appealing to my imposter syndrome somehow wow, well, that's, that's an interesting idea the imposter syndrome of a professional calligrapher, because it's it's subjective too and it's um artistic expression.
Nick:yeah, that's interesting. I didn't imagine you'd have imposter syndrome, but I guess many people do, artists do. I do? I'm an Australian talking about it, you guys. So I have a lot of imposter syndrome and I do worry about this.
Nick:So maybe we all have imposter syndrome oh yes, maybe life is tough it is sometimes, but it sounds like you really enjoy what you're doing now and you, you brush custom calligraphy, blending ancient wisdom with modern aesthetics to create motivational artworks for leaders and for workspaces around the world. So that must be really inspiring that you're not just doing this in Japan, you're doing it in different countries. So when you're doing these custom pieces, when you're commissioned to do that, what's the process? What is your artwork designed to do? When it's meant to, I guess, fill a space or decorate a space?
Naoko:Okay, so the process is like this, the practical one I talk to my clients and what kind of motivation they want, and I brush several types of calligraphy and the client choose one of them. So basically, as I said before, the most important is the message. So I value message which they want to talk about the most I see the message.
Nick:As you said earlier, the message is more important. Yes, awesome, and then, once the message is chosen, I guess you then go and brush the piece. Yes, so I always have this idea that if an artist is doing something, like a kakejiku, like sometimes, you have one chance to do it.
Naoko:Yes, yes, sometimes, but tailored. I am mostly working on tailored kakejuku, so I brush a big paper and so the client choose what they like like yeah, then I send it to the kakejuku maker and the craftsman do the okay.
Nick:So you, I see, okay, that's good. So yeah, kakejuku means, I guess, hanging scroll, yes yes yeah, um, let's touch on, I guess, budo samurai, because that is a strong theme in your work. So if we go back to samurai samurai era, what was calligraphy for in, I guess for samurai in in their days? Uh, you touched on it earlier. This, this reminder of how to live your life, or maybe a a virtue to uphold things like that? Yeah, exactly.
Naoko:So sometimes they do Kali Rumi by their own, but sometimes some samurai presents his work to other samurai and it was not that special at the time, I think, but the message was important. But it doesn't matter. It matters, but it doesn't that matter if the work is beautiful or not.
Nick:I think it was the message, always the message. This is really interesting, yeah, but I think that makes sense. You take this time to have an artist write a message. Of course the message would have a lot of thought and feeling behind it. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of. I guess, as Westerners we see samurais, these warriors you know, fighting and killing people, but this other side to them, where they're drinking tea and discussing calligraphy and giving gifts of calligraphies, yes, I guess it's that, the softness of the warrior, or the inner heart of the warrior, that we don't often talk about, of the warrior, or the inner heart of the warrior that we don't often talk about.
Naoko:There is a word called bunbu ryodo, so it means bun, the study, and bu, the martial arts Always you need to have both ways in your side.
Nick:Good way to live by and do would be the path and do would be to. I don't know.
Nick:To yes, oh, okay, cool, wow, there we go. So that's what I love too. I love the learnings from studying, you know, studying calligraphy, and what I've noticed in general and in your work on LinkedIn, you often mention or you often have calligraphy pieces that mention the word shin or kokoro. Yes, and you know, I guess in the West we might understand kokoro's heart, but it's, it's more than that. I have this idea. It conveys mind, heart and spirit almost as one entity. So it took me a while to understand kokoro. But, yeah, how would you define shin or kokoro? Yeah, okay, um, Kokoro.
Naoko:Okay, the other day during our Zoom call, you said like that. You said it's difficult to translate kokoro into English with just one word yes, that's very true, very true. Kokoro is a difficult concept to explain, like many Japanese things which are kind of vague. So Japanese people intuitively understand it, but it's generally difficult for us to explain it for foreigners. Basically, as you said, it can mean at the same time heart, mind and spirit. But even in english for me it's difficult to make difference between mind and spirit. So I think it's fundamentally a difficult concept to to explain. Kokoro is about emotions, intellect and spiritual.
Nick:Yeah, that's really interesting because we often have this expression you know, think with your mind, feel with your heart, and we're almost separating the two. But kokoro kind of conveys the idea well, you cannot live or function without both working together. Yeah, and then there's the spirit, which we probably don't. We're so busy in the world and the modern world we don't connect to spirit that often Some people might not even believe there is the spirit. They might only think it's oh, it's just your mind and the heart just pumps blood and that's all. So I guess there's a lot of. There's far more reflection behind these concepts of Japanese words, I think, compared to you know, modern Western thinking and a lot of history. So that's why it's probably hard for Westerners to understand, and typically in the West we're kind of looking for a quick answer, like just tell me what it is, you know, don't worry about the details which is not really the best way to approach learning, I think, words in any language.
Nick:The deeper you go, obviously, the better you can understand and communicate. So it's this journey of learning. So it's always a journey of learning for me, for Japanese. Yeah, why do you feature kokoro or shin to readings of the kanji? So much in your work.
Naoko:Ah yes, in calligraphy kokoro is a very unique character. In calligraphy, kokoro is a very unique character. It has only four strokes which are not connected to each other, so it's hard to brush because it has a kind of floating sensation. It can be very delicate or very strong, like the mind of people, because somehow kokoro can be be mirror of people's mind. It is often used in calligraphy that deal with philosophy and life. Also it is heavily used in martial arts because I think mental states have very deep impact on the outcome of fight. So for centuries samurai trained their skills, their technical skills, in martial arts, but also they spent a lot of time training their mind. That's why a lot of ancient Japanese wisdom talks a lot about kokoro.
Nick:I guess the romantic perception is the warriors has already won the battle in their mind. After it's sort of just the actions follow. Yeah, it's fascinating. So this deep thinking behind this single word, and yeah, that was really interesting, because learning to write just kanji in general, kokoro is always hard to balance because you're writing there's no connection.
Nick:But if I was writing something like batashi, that's easy to write because you kind of have this structure to it. Exactly, that's interesting. So, on the theme of kokoro, one concept I love and try to remember is shoshin, and I encourage my students to embrace this idea, and I think you've written about this, so would you like to speak on shoshin?
Naoko:Okay. Shoshin is generally understood in Japan as beginner's mind. When you learn something new, you need to be an empty vessel. Don't try to import your knowledge you have because that will break the teaching. You need to have a mind of real beginner. That's the definition of Shoshin most Japanese people think. However, I wrote a post about it from Zeami point of view. Zeami established non-theater from 14 to 15th century. Superstar of performing arts. Back then I'm sure he was like a rock star.
Nick:Wow, okay.
Naoko:Yeah, so Zeami's point of view is very different from modern way of thinking. Actually, it's really complicated, difficult to explain, so if people are interested in better, to read my LinkedIn post.
Nick:We'll link to it. So how about that? Yeah it's quite. I've read it. It inspired me and yeah, your posts are quite detailed and long.
Naoko:Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, his idea was to deal with new situations and challenges by capitalising on all the first experiences you have had so far in your life.
Nick:That's Zia Mi's Xiu Xin. Now. It's always a good approach to learning, even if you think you do know something you can. Just well I'll empty the cup and refill it. Maybe I'll learn something new, or I'll learn it in a different light, a different perspective. So let's continue with this theme, using shin kukuro in words, because you've written quite a, or you've brushed quite a few words with shin and written posts. So another one I picked up from you which I really like is fudo-shin. So what does that mean?
Naoko:Fudo Shin. Yes, that's an example of spirituality in martial arts. It's a Zen concept. It was used by many samurai, famously Yagyu Munenori. He was a prominent swordsman who served as a martial arts instructor of Tokugawa Shogunate. In English, Fudoshin is translated to immovable mind. Let me explain it simply. Imagine this there is a young person new to Zen meditation and a seasoned Zen master. Both of them meditate and their brainwaves are monitored. At first their brainwaves are calm and similar. Then a loud noise startles them. Both have disturbed brainwaves at that moment. But here's the interesting part the young person's brainwaves stay chaotic for a while, but the Zen master's brain waves quickly return to calm. It shows that even the Zen master can be startled, but he regains his calm much faster. Kudoshin is translated to immovable mind, but it's all about being resilient and bouncing back. It's a great reminder that in our daily lives, all about being resilient and bouncing back, Nice. It's a great reminder that in our daily lives, staying calm during tough times is what really shows our strength.
Nick:I love it. It's really interesting because the three kanji characters also convey that, you know, not moving mind. But this idea of yeah, bouncing back quickly and coming back to your centre or being grounded is, I guess, that comes with, you know, life experience, so much to learn. And then another quite common term that maybe some of our listeners have heard is this idea of Mushin, which I believe is related to Bushido, sort of, I guess, the way of the warrior, or Budo martial arts. So yeah, how would you define Mushin?
Naoko:Mushin. In a way, it's close to Fudoshin. Difference is that Fudoshin is about external influences, but Mushin is more about your own internal influences. An easy way to explain it is that when you drive and listen to music, then at some point you realize that you have been driving for a long time without even thinking about it. You just did it automatically. Sometimes in English people translate machine mind of no mind. Yeah, again, this is an important concept in martial arts. Yes, of course, for samurai mushim means having a clear mind, free from destructions, thanks to Buddhist and Zen teachings. For them, on the battlefield, where life and death were constant, zen's focus on cutting off attachments was crucial. For them, muxin was not just a mindset, but a life or death technique.
Nick:Yeah, it almost. I just had this, this thought. Now it's almost as if I mean, often, I guess, in the battlefield, you're, you're acting on instinct and you're, you're in the hopefully, you're in the zone and you're you don't have time to think about worries or you're you're empty. But it might be that the spirit has come to life, the spirit is taking over, and we often have the expression you know, act on instinct, but maybe you're acting with spirit. You can only do that for, I guess, a short amount of time. So it's very intense, yeah yeah, yeah.
Nick:It's. I guess in the modern world it's these. You know, the Olympics are about to start, so maybe there will be these amazing performances or these moments of victory where it happens miraculously, somehow, someone kicks a goal or, you know, someone breaks a world record. All this years of training and tension comes down to this one moment. So I guess, mooshin, would be very, very helpful if you can reach that state.
Nick:Yeah, I think so, yeah, and I think we've got time for a few more. One more, and this one I had not ever heard about. And again through your work, heijoushin, I've learned so much from you, naoko, so what does Heijoushin mean?
Naoko:Well, again, it's close to hudoushin. Well, heijoushin translates to staying calm in any situation and of course, again, it's heavily used in martial arts. The famous Miyamoto Musashi also spoke of a similar mindset. When the body is still, let not the mind be still, and when the body moves violently, keep the mind tranquil. Do not let your spirit be drugged by the body's movement, nor let the body be influenced by the mind. Always be mindful of the spirit and not be distracted by the body. Isn't that beautiful?
Nick:It's beautiful, it's very. It makes me think, wow, you have to be a very evolved person to achieve that. Yeah, I mean. The first kanji character, if I remember correctly, is hey, is that flat? Yes, flat. So you're not zigzagging, you're kind of at peace with your mind.
Naoko:Yes, calm.
Nick:Regardless if you're in this intense situation of stress or battle.
Naoko:Yeah, for me every time I need to calligraphy on expensive material like ceramic. It's hard to maintain Heizyoshin. My body is still heavily influenced by mind sometimes.
Nick:And perhaps this is our problem in the modern world, where we're overstimulated, we're distracted, we're frustrated and we turn to TV or alcohol, cigarettes to calm ourselves.
Naoko:And we don't.
Nick:Disruption. So do you find, I imagine, as an artist, where you are preparing yourself, you've got the ink, you've prepared all the paper, you have the image of the kanji in mind. It's still quite intense, yes, because then you have to brush it and it's very much. I imagine there's a lot of. You will never draw the same character, exactly the same, ever. There will be always a slight difference, or maybe even a big difference. So is that quite mentally challenging. Do you get stressed or are you kind of do you have hey josh in?
Naoko:Well, so it's difficult. I don't know. It really depends on the. If I say luck, it's not good the moment, we'll call it the moment, the moment. Yeah, it depends on the moment, yes, um. So when I brush and I think, oh, this is good in my opinion, but maybe the client doesn't like it, it happens. So I try to think that everything is good for someone Nice.
Nick:That's a good approach.
Naoko:Yeah, yeah. So I don't want to feel pressure because it's ridiculous.
Nick:Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
Naoko:I don't work for a company, so I want to do in my way, really.
Nick:Well, you must be, I mean your work must be appreciated if you are doing this as your profession, and it's a rare be, I mean your work must be appreciated if you are doing this as your profession and it's a rare thing, I think, to be a full-time, you know, calligrapher or artist and have people we kind of touched on this Like we could argue any kind of artwork in an office or public space is like not a necessity, you don't really need it. But if someone is willing to spend, you know, invest in it, it's, you know, it would mean something to them and hopefully they want to not only decorate their workspace but perhaps yeah, they want to choose a word that inspires themselves, their customers, the people that come into their workspace. So it must be very gratifying for you to do work you love, that you find meaning and purpose in, and have people willing to pay you.
Naoko:Yes, I'm very much thankful.
Nick:Awesome. Well, I think we can end with one more, and this is a term that you actually have, I guess advice, or it's this idea of a tip for a better tomorrow. So what is the word and what is the advice you have?
Naoko:Yeah, the word is zanshin. Zanshin is a very fundamental aspect in Japanese martial arts Again, martial arts. Sorry, but actually it's my best seller, zanshin.
Naoko:I love zanshin because many martial artists have asked me to make this calligraphy for them, so it's a very important word. Basically, zanshin means lingering mind. Lingering mind if you do, for example, kendo competition, zanshin is required to score a point. Zanshin is not a stroke, it's not an even stroke, it's just a mindset, but it's actually required to score a point. You must be wondering what it is and how that works. Let me explain it simply Even after you strike your opponent Pan, you need to stay alert in case he strikes back. You need to leave your mind there. Mind behind, lingering mind that's zanshin. I can explain it in a more familiar way.
Naoko:You can see that in many movies, when the bad guy is defeated, then the good guy celebrates yay, I did it again. And all of a sudden the bad guy wasn't dead and he's trapped. Yes, yes. That's the example of lack of zanshin. Okay.
Nick:Yeah, that happens often in movies.
Naoko:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it happens often in your life, right? Even in your life it happens, yeah, yeah, often In your life, right?
Nick:Even in your life it happens. Yeah, you actually reminded me. There was this. There's like a whole series of YouTube videos where it's celebrating too early and you have these athletes who celebrate too early and then they lose. So they're running and they think they've won and so they slow down and put their hands up and then someone quickly passes them and they lose. Or another one was this goalkeeper and it was a penalty kick and he blocked it and kind of went off and he walked off really cool and then the ball bounced but it had all this backspin and it slowly entered the goal line and you can see he's showing off and then he suddenly turns around. He's like, oh no, um. So his ego yeah, it's like the zanshin is like the opposite to the ego, where your ego switches the focus to you. I'm great, I've won. Something bad happens.
Naoko:So yeah, so Zanshin is a concept which has been at the core of Japanese martial arts for centuries. People who want to know more details of Zanshin please read my LinkedIn post again. I explained it in a more profound way there, I guess.
Nick:Yes, we'll link to LinkedIn and we might even quote some of your LinkedIn posts in the show notes. But yeah, I mean Zanshin also kind of reminds me of how Japanese are very like they do things properly and do things diligently, and do things to completion, yeah, so I'm not surprised. Maybe this concept drives those behaviours of chanto suru to do things properly, or even kodowari like Mm kodowari.
Nick:Yeah, do things with great care. So I'm now curious much of your kanji or calligraphy, I should say relates to Budo. Have you ever done any martial arts yourself?
Naoko:Actually, no. Well, I tried to do karate when I was a junior high school student, karate when I was a junior high school student, but I did it for one year, but once a week, so I didn't get better, oh, once a week. That's probably not enough, right, right? So, um, yes, for for myself I prefer to do dance ballet, uh, latin dancing or social dancing, something like that, so it's not my preference. Budo is not my preference, but I love the philosophy.
Nick:Yeah, yeah.
Naoko:And I love war period novels and yeah, so just philosophy, not doing.
Nick:Yeah, but there's I mean there's so much to learn behind all these philosophical unique concepts about, I guess, the, the way of the warrior, or, you know, the, the mind, the, the internal battle is usually the hardest one, yes, the one we have with our mind and our perception of self.
Nick:And so japanese seem to be very aware of all of this, I guess, as in buddh, yeah, seem to understand this, and I guess now we're realising all of this and we're validating it all with, you know, modern research. Yeah, it's fascinating how these were concepts discussed hundreds of years ago and put into practice through the practice of martial art and also fine arts or calligraphy. It also reminds me of, like shokunin, like the mind of the craftsperson, and how they can dedicate their life to, you know, making pottery, yeah, yeah, yeah, their mind and, yeah, focus. So it's very, very fascinating what a wonderful culture you have. So now I'm curious is calligraphy a source of ikigai, or is this study of buddhism and you know as not buddhism so much, but I guess the way of Buddha, is that a source of ikigai for you to study Buddha or brush calligraphy?
Naoko:For me yeah yeah, for you. I should say yes here, right.
Nick:Just say what's true. I mean, it could be something else.
Naoko:yeah, Just say what's true, I mean it could be something else. Yeah, well, I like what I do and I love this Japanese philosophy and culture, old traditions, I love it. But talking about ikigai, I never thought about it, honestly, because I even didn't know. The ikigai concept is very famous abroad. I even didn't know. So for me, what is my ikigai? Yeah, but anyway, I want to people to know this Japanese wisdom. So I want to work what I do, focusing more, more and more, and it's really difficult to say Won't you be big?
Nick:More involved.
Naoko:Not big, but Reach more people.
Nick:Yeah, it sounds like reach more people yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
Naoko:So it could be my ikigai right now.
Nick:Yeah, I mean. Another word that might be appropriate is shimekan. Do you have a sense of purpose with your work? Shimekan? Yes, Very tied strongly to ikigai for some people. Yeah, I mean, this is the fascinating aspect of ikigai. It is this popular concept, and many Japanese, yeah, don't even think about it.
Naoko:Right.
Nick:And when you ask them they're a bit surprised Like what? Like how do you know this word? Or why are you asking? And then there's these different perspectives. Someone like Ken Ichiro Magi will say it's a spectrum of all these small things in your life your morning coffee walking, your dog going for a run. Or some people might say, oh no, it's more than that, it's your life purpose. So it's always interesting to get honest reactions from my guests. Yeah, it's always fascinating.
Naoko:Actually, because I know the interviews happening today. Last weekend I talked to my father and asked him what is your ikigai? And he said oh, this is difficult, I don't know.
Nick:Really. Yeah, it's funny, I've had the same reaction sometimes and I go oh, maybe my family, I'm not sure Kind of answers to a Japanese person I asked said, oh, it's camping, camping with my friends, and it was really specific and I thought, ah, so there was that social aspect and you know, getting away from life and having a good time. So, yeah, it's probably something we should think about more often.
Nick:You know what gives our life meaning and purpose and fulfillment we're usually too stressed and busy, but thank you, naoko, for all the wisdom you've shared today, and I'm sure our listeners would like to learn more about you. Thank you, naoko, for all the wisdom you've shared today, and I'm sure our listeners would like to learn more about you. So how can people find you online.
Naoko:Please visit my website or LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn.
Nick:I have Instagram, but not that much, so we'll link to your website and that is fumicom. So that's f-u-h-m-icom, and people can see your wonderful calligraphy work. And, yeah, if you want to learn about Japanese wisdom, go to LinkedIn and you can check out all of Naoko's posts. So that's Naoko Mikami. And, yeah, learn all these amazing words like I'm learning. So thank you. So, yes, thank you very much for your time today, naoko, thank you.
Naoko:Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.