The Ikigai Podcast
The Ikigai Podcast
Quiet Moments: Finding Peace in the Ritual of Tea with Dairik Amae
What can a single sip of tea reveal?
In this episode of the Ikigai Podcast, Nick speaks with Dairik Amae on how the simple act of drinking tea can become a doorway to stillness.
So I can only talk from experience. But a very interesting thing that happened to me is I was having just ice cream at 7-Eleven and you know it would always come with kind of a plastic spoon. So I was just eating my ice cream from the cup and just using the plastic spoon, but I was holding it in a way I would do with my tea utensils. So I was kind of carefully holding this plastic spoon and for the first time I realized how it was well made.
Speaker 2:IkigaiTribecom. My guest today on the Ikigai podcast is Daidiku Amaya, a contemporary tea practitioner and teacher based in the ancient capital of Kyoto, the epicenter of tea culture in Japan. Daidiku began his practice in Japanese tea ceremony at the age of 19 and has a background in Japanese architecture as well as in design. Over the years, he has lived in multiple countries, including Korea, russia, the US, syria and Ukraine, and now calls Kyoto home. Thank you very much for joining me today, daeriku.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me today.
Speaker 2:So we had a chat a few weeks ago, so it was nice to get to know you. But I think it'd be interesting to touch on your background and why you've lived in so many different countries.
Speaker 1:I was born first in Seoul in South Korea and moved to Moscow in Russia, and eventually I lived in Hawaii. Then in my middle school I was in Damascus, syria, and eventually in Kiev in Ukraine, and now I'm in Kyoto. So the reason why I lived in many countries is because my father was a diplomat and therefore we were posted in all these countries.
Speaker 2:So very interesting. Did it just feel normal for you or was it challenging making friends and then leaving friends and making new friends and different culture, different languages?
Speaker 1:Yes, it was for sure very difficult as a small boy. You know, every two or three years I would have to say goodbye to my friends and make new friends. And again, a lot of these countries have such a different culture, the language is different, the food is different, so adapting was I guess it just had you know, I felt why I was in that situation. But looking back now I guess it has helped me to accept and appreciate many viewpoints and many perspectives.
Speaker 2:In terms of picking up. I mean, you don't really pick up languages, but how did you go with communication in all these different countries?
Speaker 1:So you know, I think mainly it's really through watching local TV. There's always some good anime translated in the local language and you know as a kid we're like a sponge. So I picked up the language just watching anime and I guess at school my friends were 90% just local people and of course English helped. But I guess you know, communication it's not really just about language, but it's kind of this even if you're not able to speak the language, somehow people can connect. Yeah, I was able to, I guess, connect through not just the language.
Speaker 2:And what about language at home? Was that Japanese?
Speaker 1:Yes, it was my parents who are Japanese. Yes, it was my parents who are Japanese.
Speaker 2:So even if I never really went to a Japanese school. I never formally studied Japanese, but just talking with my parents. And I have brothers, so I just kind of, you know, spoke Japanese with them. I see, so quite an interesting childhood and teenagehood. And then you returned to Japan when you were 19. Is that correct, or was it before you were 19?
Speaker 1:So I was back in Japan end of high school, so kind of 17,. You know a little bit before university.
Speaker 2:And so then obviously, something drew you to study tea and become a cha-jin or a tea practitioner. So yeah, would you like to share how that came about?
Speaker 1:As I mentioned, since I was outside Japan for such a long time, I was naturally curious about my own roots and what does it mean to be Japanese and what is Japanese culture? And at the beginning I was interested in architecture, so that's what I studied in university and I was drawn to more traditional architecture, you know, using wood and carpentry and, of course, the temple and shrines, and I thought Kyoto is the best place to study traditional architecture. And in particular, I was drawn to the tea room, which is kind of a very small structure. It was not considered even architecture formally because it's such a small and fragile building, but I noticed many contemporary architects Japanese architects would actually design a tea room using modern material. So I just wanted to know more about what is a Japanese tea ceremony. So then I started looking for a teacher and eventually found my current teacher or master.
Speaker 2:So with architecture and, I think, other cultural practices or arts or crafts, including tea, there's the concept of ma. Was that something you studied, or is that something more intuitive that Japanese just sort of grow up with? Or is it a combination of both?
Speaker 1:I feel. In my case this idea of ma was through my architecture studies, so I guess we can translate it as a negative space or this kind of in-between space and typically we have something called the engawa. Engawa is this in-between inside and outside. It's kind of like a balcony, but it's kind of this ma or in-between space between the garden and inside. Fortunately, I think now Japanese people do not really get to sense ma because everything is quite modern and not a lot of Japanese people practice traditional arts. But ma is also important in calligraphy or painting. Even in traditional theater we use ma. So I think originally it was taught through really practice practicing the arts.
Speaker 2:It's a fascinating concept and it probably took me a while to appreciate the idea of negative space, this idea of room, and how it's intentionally used in architecture and, I guess, in these other crafts, and it's something I feel we probably need in today's chaotic world with so much distraction and we're overstimulated. So I love this, this idea of ma, and I guess also that that other related concept of utori, which is, I guess that's, more psychological. I guess these are really important elements to not only the tea room but the practice of tea, which we'll probably talk about later. But what do you think drew you specifically to tea? Because there's so much about Japanese culture you could have explored. Why do you think it was tea?
Speaker 1:In my case, japanese way of tea is especially connected to the architecture. Japanese way of tea is especially connected to the architecture and it has helped me understand the design process and often Japanese design is known to be simple or minimal and that kind of comes from this so-called tea practice. In general we say Japanese tea ceremony covers all other arts, including flowers, calligraphy, gardening, cuisine. So I thought for me it's nice as a university student that I could see everything in one goal and not just kind of be specialized in just flower or be specialized in calligraphy and touching all aspects. I think it's more holistic. So I think that's important to understand this kind of uh, you know, more general general perspective, because in the end I was curious about the architecture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so, in order to learn and study tea, you obviously practice under someone, so I do want to share about who you studied under so my uh tea master his name is uh a soren bisgard, so he's actually a danish tea master.
Speaker 1:He is from uh urasenke, which is a style of tea. There are different styles, so Urasenke is one of the main schools of Japanese tea ceremony.
Speaker 2:There are two styles. I think or I recall there are two styles.
Speaker 1:So actually there are several, if you include, you know big or small, but the major ones there is three. We have Omotesenke Urasenke, mushano Koji Senkei, and they are just kind of known to have a lot more students.
Speaker 2:Are the differences subtle or are they quite significant?
Speaker 1:So the difference is quite subtle in these three main schools because they're actually all related, they're relatives, because they're actually all related, they're relatives. But if we look at other tea schools, which could be even called the samurai way of tea, then it's completely different in the gestures and how the tea room is. But of course, in the end any type of school would use matcha for the tea.
Speaker 2:On the subject of tea, there seems to be several names cha-do, sa-do, cha-no-yu and we often translate, or Westerners understand tea as tea ceremony.
Speaker 1:My understanding is some of these names represent the practice of tea and maybe is cha-no-yu more a general terminology for the concept of serving tea so, um, then, you know, there are really different, uh, interpretations, and I think also depending on the period of time if this was, you know, 16th century or 17th century or the present day there is kind of different interpretations, but I think the basic one we use is called Sado or Chado. So Cha means tea and Do means way, and together it means a way of tea, as we also have a Shodo and Sho means calligraphy, so that's way of calligraphy. We have Kado, which is a way of flower. So all this is basically it's a way of life revolving around that particular aesthetic, and chado is, in my case, my life revolves around the tea aesthetics, which is to enjoy the subtle and simple beauty of things.
Speaker 2:Lovely. There is something fascinating about this idea of putting so much effort and care into serving tea and you, as the host, don't drink tea when you're performing a ceremony or a tea gathering, so that's quite unique. Gathering, so that's quite unique. So how do you think of tea? Because I did speak to another tea practitioner and he sort of didn't like the idea of tea ceremony. I think he called it tea gathering. So when you're, if you're trying to articulate it in English, what would you call it?
Speaker 1:So I think this word tea ceremony is, it was just first used by Okakura Kakuzo. He's an important figure who described Japanese culture to the Western audience. But you know, we can call it tea gathering. Sometimes I would call it tea ritual. For me, I feel, you know, one name is not more appropriate than the other. It really depends. And I feel that this way of tea is so open to interpretation because it has an influence of Zen, and Zen ultimately doesn't have a right or wrong, as there are, we say, many paths leading to the peak of the mountain. And we could also say it's like a shape shifter and it just takes the shape of the vessel, like water does.
Speaker 2:So can you touch on the two types of chakai?
Speaker 1:Yes, there are two types. So one we could call it informal, we call it chakai, is again tea, kai means kind of gathering or meeting. The second type is the more so-called formal tea gathering, which is called chaji, and cha is again tg is more of the event. So chakai is I guess you can call it much more simple. It just has a serving of sweets Called wagashi, and it can be short, like 30 minutes even, or a really quick drink, or it can be quite long, it can be 1 hour 90 minutes. But this is more open to public Sometimes. It's not always private. So, on the other hand, chaji, this is more private, so it's only for invited guests usually, and this can last up to three to four hours because we serve kind of a full course meal called kaiseki, including that. We also serve two types of tea, we call thick tea and thin tea. But the main difference is this chaji it's it's more about creating an intimate atmosphere among the invited guests and the host.
Speaker 2:So that fascinated me when I first discovered, oh, there was this longer tea event where you serve a whole meal and Kaiseki. Actually, kaiseki was one of the first meals I had with my wife and I was like, wow, this is seven, eight, nine courses, small dishes, all very beautiful and unique in their presentation. So, as a cha-jin, is that something you make and prepare?
Speaker 1:Yes, so that's why we also have to learn about cooking, how to cook kaiseki. And again, it's kind of like when you invite your friends over to your house and you would serve them lunch or dinner, and it's a kind of a way to show this kind of you know, kindness, so we would, you know, cook and prepare everything for the guests, and that kind of creates helps to create this intimate relationship and so with achaji is the conversation formal.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's such a long time. Was it more casual, as you're progressing through the courses and eating?
Speaker 1:I guess you know it really depends on how the host navigates and in what kind of purpose. So if it's more of you know we have seasonal festivals. We have like Boys Day, girls Day, you know, we have like which is May 5th and March 3rd, or we also have like New Year's. So in those cases maybe it could be a little bit more formal but the conversation can be quite fluid. But the rule is you don't want to talk too much about work or politics or your personal matters, because we put that outside the tea room and we have gathered to enjoy more of the present moment. And it's not about kind of worldly talks. You know, it's not like going to the usual coffee house or tea house to chat over what you saw on television or you know, because that is something not everyone can relate. But if we eat the same food and you notice something, we have a more shared experience the sensations you feel, the smell of the incense, what's happening in the present moment, and these things then we can share with the guests.
Speaker 2:Nice. So it sounds like it's an opportunity to almost escape the outside world and then be present and appreciate obviously the meal, the tea, but also the company of friends or guests without too much stress.
Speaker 1:I'm sure there's no gossiping or arguing yeah, so it is really, uh, I would, I would call it a temporary retreat from the hustle and bustle of busy life and, you know, I guess you can call it as a way to disconnect from all these uh stressful things, um, because again it is a meditation, um, and it's a way to ground yourself and try to kind of, we say, be normal. It's a normalization process so you can really enjoy things with true eyes and then your role as the cha jin.
Speaker 2:You're there to serve the guests and obviously you prepare. A lot of preparation would go into a tea event and then during the cha ji or the cha kai, you don't actually eat or drink. So is that just that concept of omotenashi like Japanese service, and is there any alternative? Do sometimes tea practitioners share tea with their guests?
Speaker 1:So, as you say, the host usually is just serving and we don't drink tea or eat the food, or I mean we don't eat in the same tea room, we usually just eat at the back. So this is kind of, we say yin-yang relationship. So when the host is serving, the guest is receiving. It's a yin-yang relationship. So when the host is serving, the guest is receiving. As the host is active, the guest is passive. It's kind of an interesting practice. But sometimes I think, when we look at it in a more historical view you know it was practiced among the samurai lords and there is a lot of hierarchy and your guest could be a lord and you just don't want to be disrespectful. You would say, oh, I will eat at the back just to show respect and you just be a kind of a server.
Speaker 1:But we also have a kind of a Shinto aspect. I believe that we are offering the meal and the tea to the kami within the guest. So kami is this idea of a spirit. So we say the spirits visit you and you offer them sake and food and you want them to stay. So that's why you purify the room, make it clean, so the guests are in fact kind of like a visiting kami. So that's why we would serve them, but we would not eat in the same space. But sometimes, you know, the guest would offer us tea, you know, and the guest would say, oh, please join, and then we would accept the offering. So we would make tea for ourselves, or sometimes the guests would prepare tea for us. So really, case by case it depends.
Speaker 2:So I imagine Achaji with all the food and even tea itself is, I mean, good quality tea is quite expensive. So if you're inviting guests, is there some expectation they offer a donation or contribution?
Speaker 1:I feel it's, um, because you know it's really inviting your intimate friends. So the idea is the guests will, uh, invite you. So it's kind of, you know, give and take. But I think the idea is it's more kind of for your own personal practice. So it's not being, it's not like a restaurant, you know, it's not like you're serving them, but you are, you want to practice, and you're kind of asking the guests to come and use their time, cause you know, we know everyone is so busy and we say, oh, thank you for coming and thank you for participating in my practice. But of course, some guests, you know they, they feel they want to give back. So some would maybe wrap some fee or they would maybe bring some gifts, you know. But I think what's important is you shouldn't expect any kind of payment because you know you are really it's more about giving and offering and for your own practice.
Speaker 2:I see. So what about with regard to learning tea? What kind of relationship is that? It almost sounds like it's an apprenticeship, but would you be paying your teacher to learn? Because I'm sort of wondering oh, you're a tea practitioner, how do you make a living from that? So there are different cases. It really depends on how the teacher wants to do.
Speaker 1:But I think originally this know there are different cases, it really depends on how the teacher wants to do, but I think originally you know this was not a source of income. So the past tea masters, you know their main job is a samurai or a merchant, you know they have their own business and the tea is just kind of a more spiritual practice and they would teach students. But you know it's not like their main source of income. But of course nowadays there are tea teachers dedicated to just teaching and it's kind of a monthly fee. So in Rasenke there is kind of a standard that you pay monthly to the student, pays to the tea teacher. But I guess you know in the end it's really up to each teacher how they want to cover the expenses or you know how they want to live with it.
Speaker 2:And are you finding this is an assumption? Obviously, you mentioned earlier less Japanese drinking tea and obviously, learning tea, but there seems to be also interest from foreigners wanting to learn chado. So is that the case? There's more interest recently from foreigners and less from Japanese themselves.
Speaker 1:So I'm not really sure about the actual numbers of Japanese students. So you know, of course the Japanese population in general is decreasing and much of the tea students are elder people. You know, in my grandmother's generation it was very popular, but in my father's generation not as much. But at least in Kyoto we have a lot of universities and usually they have a kind of after-school tea club, so they have. You know, at least one big university has like 300 tea students. I think that's a big number. But of course you know, when they graduate and once they start working in Tokyo, maybe they might not continue. So there is growing interest abroad and Urasenkei always has branches outside in different countries. So I don't know if that's increasing, but for sure there are more people drinking matcha now.
Speaker 1:And the interest for matcha tea is uh growing, but I think that doesn't mean there's interest in this so-called japanese way of tea, or uh tea ceremony.
Speaker 2:Yeah now I can get a I think it's a chai matcha latte at my local cafes. Not sure of the quality of the actual matcha, but I do recall a previous podcast guest sharing with me that girls would learn was it the golden triangle or something they would learn chado, chodo and kado, like calligraphy, flower arrangement and tea ceremony and I think I told you when we spoke, my father makes much a jowl. So tea ceremony bowls, yeah, and I think in the 70s and 80s lots of demand, but now like very little demand and they've had to focus on making different cups, like you know me, and even cups for export to china, because it's not a thing every young girl does now anymore yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 1:I think again in my grandmother's generation she told me it was a must to learn if you want to, let's say, be a be seen as educated, or like a good housewife, let's say that you must know how to do tea flowers. You know, wear the kimono. It's kind of basic. But I think now that kind of standard has disappeared, which I feel is you know, it's okay, I mean, it's a trend, it changes and I think now post-pandemic people are more interested in the spirit and not about kind of manners or you know, like, how to wear a kimono, but they're more interested in about this mindfulness practice and how it makes one present.
Speaker 2:On that theme of being present or spirit, there is a yoji jukugo, so a character word that articulates, I guess, the principles of tea, and I remember reading this in a book and then first thinking, oh, this is hard to say, so it's what case? A jack, and this is a really important principle of tea, so would you like to touch on it?
Speaker 1:Yes. So we often say there are four principles of Chan-O-Yu. So we say Wa. Wa means harmony, kei means respect, sei means purity, jaku means tranquility. So Wa, kei, sei, jaku so Wa. This idea of harmony is originally. There are different interpretations, but one could say it comes from Taoism, and Taoism is about being in harmony with nature. You know they practice in the mountains. But when we say being in harmony with nature, it doesn't mean human versus nature, but it's also your inner nature.
Speaker 1:Then next is Kei, respect. So this is kind of Confucian. Confucian is about, you know, we say respect the elders. So we always bow in Japan. So why do we respect elders? It's because we assume they have more wisdom. So this is bowing to wisdom. So when you feel you have learned something from someone, we bow to say thank you. So we can even bow to an object if we feel you learned something from the object. So we would even bow to a flower. We would bow to the utensils because there's so much wisdom in that. You know the material and the time it took to make it. A lot of knowledge is there, so we would even bow to the utensils. So this is a kei.
Speaker 1:Next is a sei. This is a purity. So this comes from Shinto. Shinto is our local religion, more kind of nature worship, and if you go to the shrine you often see in the morning they're sweeping and cleaning so and using water to cleanse your hands and mouth. So this is to purify your heart, your mind and heart from worldly dust. So we're always purifying utensils and cleaning in the tea room. Finally, there's a jaku. Jaku is tranquility. This is kind of Buddhism and often can be translated as awareness or maybe you can say enlightenment. But when you have this wa kei sei, naturally you become aware. So this is kind of the four principles often used to describe Chan-o-yu. But of course it's not just about the tea but life in general.
Speaker 2:You can apply this to all aspects of your daily life and that was my next question has the practice of tea and deeply understanding this concept, all these concepts of wa Keisei Jaku, does that really seep into other areas of your life and does it help you stay grounded and stay, I guess, having appreciation more thoughtful and considerate in a sometimes very chaotic and crazy world?
Speaker 1:So I can only talk from experience. But a very interesting thing that happened to me is I was having just ice cream at 7-Eleven and it would always come with kind of a plastic spoon. So I was just eating my ice cream from the cup and just using the plastic spoon, but I was holding it in a way I would do with my tea utensils. So I was kind of carefully holding this plastic spoon and for the first time I realized how it was well made, very good design. So you know, I noticed while there must have been a lot of prototypes and there must have been a lot of trial and error and they came up with this plastic spoon which doesn't, you know, break so easily and it's easy to scoop my ice cream.
Speaker 1:And I've held the spoon many, many times before but usually I never notice it, I just throw it away before. But usually I never notice it, I just throw it away. And there are so many of these subtle things we don't notice. But that is where there is a lot of beauty and there's actually a lot of wisdom. And by practicing the discerimony you start to become aware of these things, these insignificant things in life. But these insignificant things are equally important.
Speaker 2:Something maybe somewhat related to that and something I know you wanted to talk about is this idea of non-verbal communication, which I'm sure requires this presence and this inner peace, I think this urge not to talk or say or repeat yourself which is so common, I guess, in Western cultures. Like in the West we say these uncomfortable silences, but I think in Japan there are these comfortable silences which I'm beginning to really enjoy, which I try to remind myself when I'm here in Australia. So yeah, would you like to talk about non-verbal communication and its role in tea ceremony, but also maybe in life in general in Japan?
Speaker 1:so this, this so-called nonverbal communication, it's very difficult to explain with words because it is really through experience. So you know, it's really like feeling the same wind or the breeze together. When you are in the wilderness, maybe with a friend, and you know, maybe you've been walking a long time and you're tired, and you and your friend just find a nice spot to sit and you feel a good breeze, summer breeze, and both of you just kind of say oh, you know, and there's nothing more you need to say because you both know you felt that kind of comfortable wind and it's same with, maybe, the feeling of warmth. When you do, like a bonfire, you know people gather around the fire and at some point, you know, you just stop talking and you're just kind of mesmerized by the beauty of the fire, the crackling of the sound, maybe you notice the smoke going up, making different kinds of shape, and a lot of these things are beyond words and that is kind of something that there is no words to describe it. So naturally there is this silence, but we are still communicating because we understand we both, or the guests and the host, felt it.
Speaker 1:But, as you say, in society, as you mentioned, how does it apply in society? In society, uh, yeah, as you, as you mentioned, how does it apply in society? Um, I think it's kind of um. We say kehai. Kehai in japanese means kind of read, read the, read the air. So we say uh, read the air. But I think it's kind of like when you see uh like uh chefs in the kitchen and you know, they kind of know what's the next next step.
Speaker 2:So naturally you don't need much talking and everything is just big one one uh, one body, yeah it's very comforting once you begin to understand oh, I don't need to state what's felt or what's obvious, we're probably all feeling or thinking the same thing about this bonfire or the beautiful reflection of a pond or the sound of rain. Why spoil it with stating, oh, this bonfire is amazing, or just, yeah, be present enough to fully enjoy it. It's something I try to encourage guests who go to Japan, like be mindful, like if you're in a restaurant and you're saying, oh, this is so delicious, you're kind of breaking the harmony. So sort of quietly appreciate what you experience and then you'll probably enjoy it more because you'll be more present. So I love that aspect. It's something I really try to embrace and it's been very helpful for me with difficult conversations or in groups. I just kind of find myself sitting back and being more of an observer and then it gives me time to collect my thoughts and then when I want to say something, I can say something very measured, in control, not reactive or responsive. So it's definitely has benefited me.
Speaker 2:Embracing this idea of it used to be holding back, but now I feel like, oh, I'm not holding back, I kind of want to relax. So with that we should probably talk about matcha and actually I told my wife today I'm interviewing this interesting guy who's a tea practitioner and I said is there any question? You'd want me to ask him. And she did say, oh, be interesting to get his opinion on what's happened to matcha, like it's being exported now. I believe good quality matcha is sort of hard to find now, even in Japan. So, as someone who practices tea ceremony and obviously you want a very high grade of tea what are your thoughts on everything from you can go to? I can go to my cafe now and probably get a matcha smoothie or a matcha chai latte, and maybe it's harder for you to buy matcha tea now and it's probably more expensive.
Speaker 1:Yes, as you say, there is a growing global demand for matcha, even high quality matcha that we use for the tea gatherings. It's being taken, I guess. And I mean, you know, I'm glad that there is increasing interest and I hope the tea farmers, you know they benefit from all this. But I think there is a lack of understanding how to enjoy it, because it's just consumed maybe with sweeteners and mixing into. You know, it's a flavor, basically, and you really don't need such high quality matcha for a matcha latte, let's say, because you know these tea farmers are trying so hard to make tea which you can enjoy it with just hot water, just straight, and just to enjoy it as it is. But the consumer, without understanding, just adds a lot of things. You can't really taste the original flavor or how it's meant to be tasted. So you know, I think we just have to know that there are matcha which is good for mixing and there is matcha which is more appropriate for drinking straight.
Speaker 1:And as a tea practitioner, yes, I'm surprised it's difficult even for us now to get matcha. Of course we still can because we know the tea companies well enough. So we can, you know, because they keep for tea practitioners, you know, with that there's also a shortage of bamboo tea whisks and other utensils and again, it's okay. But I think people need to know you don't want to use a bamboo tea whisk for your lattes. You know it's not meant for milk and it just ruins the whisk much more quickly. So you can use maybe some other material whisk. That's okay. But I think from our side we haven't been speaking out too much and there isn't really access to real knowledge. Unfortunately, people just watch what's on the social media and just think that's the proper way.
Speaker 2:Yes, we tend to. I guess Western influence either adds a new angle or a sort of modern take. We are concerned to origin or practice and in that process I think, yeah, there is this essence that's lost. All this no understanding, there's not this full understanding to appreciate it. We just we don't. Oh, matcha cool, make a latte with it, make an ice cream with it, add sweetener to it. I guess one could argue. There's a sort of pros and cons, but it kind of the essence of tea of matcha is this idea to slow down. It's always fascinating to see matcha whisk and the sound. It's like this unique tea that's turned into a powder. And yeah, how did this, this evolution of serving tea, come about? From straining tea leaves to turning it, to drying it, to turning it into a powder? So I do have a question on that why, how did it evolve? Or how did japanese work out our tea? This type of tea leaf is best served after it's dried and essentially crunched into powder form. What's the history behind that?
Speaker 1:there are, uh, ancient records, but again, tea itself is not a native plant to Japan. It's a type of camellia, it's called Camellia sinensis, and this is said to have been brought together with Buddhism because Buddhism also is not a native thing, of course. Originally it comes from india, then it went to china and we learned buddhism from ancient china. So, anyways, uh, when when tea was was brought into japan, this method of powdered tea existed. But they say it's not like the one we have now. So the one we have now, the color is much more bright green and this is a unique evolution to Japanese, I guess, tea farming technique. So we shade the tea bush, we even cut 90% of the sunlight and what it does is the tea leaves start to collect as much sunlight so it starts to grow a little bit more wide and soft and that actually increases the chlorophyll and the other health benefits actually increase. So this was kind of, I guess, kind of experimental thing. Which tea more soft, so then it's easier to make it into fine powder at the end and it has this more green color. So that is the big difference between tea grown for matcha it's growing in a shade, whereas regular green tea or sencha. It just grows in the sun and we still kind of of course with that.
Speaker 1:Scientifically we do a lot of research about what gives the umami. Umami is kind of a taste. It's kind of like a salty taste, I guess, but it's a taste described for often like kombu broth, like seaweed broth. So green tea has a lot of umami and this is due to the amino acid increase of amino acid. So the farmers try to make the soil more adapting to this certain, to bring out this flavor. So I think these are really the unique points in Japanese tea growing this kind of shading technique and this idea of umami and this idea of umami.
Speaker 2:And is it true, the brighter the powder, the brighter the grain, the better quality it is, or it's assumed.
Speaker 1:So I think we have to be careful because there's a trend in this tea world and this kind of bright green trend. One farmer said it just developed in the 70s and in the 70s tea kind of was marketed for its bright green color. I think you know now people are looking for the more organic and not really talking about this kind of color. So the system is how we judge the quality of tea is really based on color, smell and taste. So it's really that current qualification color is very important, but that doesn't really mean it has the most health benefit, because that really also depends on the soil quality and other elements. But I think for us tea practitioners it's really about the health benefits, because we're offering medicine to the guests.
Speaker 1:And for me, this type of quality matcha a fresh matcha has a high level of L-theanine. So L-theanine, it makes one calm and it kind of also helps deal with anxiety. So this is important because that is why the Zen monks have matcha, because they feel more relaxed and that assists meditation. Of course we also know matcha has the antioxidants, so-called EGCG. So I think that's why there's a matcha craze worldwide, because people want these antioxidants. But again, this is only in the fresh matcha leaves. It's not in the matcha sweets.
Speaker 2:So, wow, people probably should be drinking matcha in the morning instead of coffee. What about the shelf life of matcha? So when you acquire matcha, how long is it good for?
Speaker 1:So what is recommended by tea producers is, if it's first of all, matcha is very weak against temperature and oxygen because it oxidizes very quickly, so you want to keep it in the refrigerator. So it doesn't do well in room temperature. So always keep it in the refrigerator, not in the freezer. And again, if it's unopened, you can leave it for one year, I would say. But once it's opened, you want to consume it relatively quick because again, it's something raw and fresh. So you know you want to keep it in the airtight can, but once it's opened, maybe you want to consume it within one month. You know, one or two months, I guess. Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll keep that in mind. My wife's trying to buy some good quality matcha and she's waiting on a shipment, so it's hard to get here in Melbourne. So, dairiku, you recommended the book of tea by Kakuzo Okakura, and it was first published in 1906. It's a short but dense book and I'd like to quote from it.
Speaker 2:Great as has been the influence of the tea masters in the field of art, it is nothing compared to what they have exerted on the conduct of life, not only in the usage of polite society, but also in the arrangement of all domestic duties. Do we feel the presence of tea masters? Many of our delicate dishes, as well as our way of serving food, are their inventions. They have taught us to dress only in garments of sombre colours. They have instructed us in the proper spirit with which to approach flowers. They have emphasized our natural love of simplicity and shown us the beauty of humility. In fact, through their teachings, tea has entered the life of the people. So that's quite amazing. Is this your hope as a tea practitioner to have this influence?
Speaker 1:your hope, as a tea practitioner, to have this influence. So I read this book of tea when I was 19 years old, when I first began the tea practice, and of course at that time I desired to, you know, spread this art of tea or art of life. But now I've've been doing it for many, many years. I'm 37 now and I think for me it's not really about spreading it, but just setting a good example and just kind of doing what is for me right and not trying to over over exaggerate things. And I think if people are interested, you know they can come and experience. But I feel I shouldn't try to be like a preaching, you know. So, yes, that is my current thought.
Speaker 2:And what do you hope that people will get out of the experience of tea with you?
Speaker 1:so you know many people who visit me enjoy the quietness, especially now because you know kyoto is just crazy with so many visitors for the cherry blossoms and everywhere you go. You know you can't really find the the quietness. But when they come you know they really feel this, they feel maybe safe and that they feel there is, it's okay to be as they like, there's no need to act and I usually call it the state of happy boring. So you're kind of bored but happy. There's no need to expect anything, there's no need to desire anything, and again, just to be present and enjoy a simple cup of tea.
Speaker 2:So, as you know, this podcast deals with ikigai and there's this irony to the concept of ikigai in that Japanese really don't mention the word that often. It's usually something very private, they probably don't even really think about it that much. And then in the West it's become very popular and sort of associated to finding your one life purpose or your dream job or your bliss. Yet it's also a concept of study in Japan and there are many papers that measure ikigai and describe it. They try to understand it in the context of, you know, the elderly university students.
Speaker 2:So it is also an area of research and study, and I'm writing a book, a second book, on ikigai, and I asked about 30 Japanese to share you know what their ikigai is, knowing it's a little bit of an unusual question. So I got some people saying, oh, I really can't answer it, to some people finding it very easy to answer, and actually one man said, oh, it's learning tea. I really enjoy the time I spend learning tea, and now my son's also joining me to learn tea as well. So it's a very. It was, yeah, sounded like a very important source of Ikigai to him. You've been doing this for a long time, and so my question is do you think one can experience ikigai in a bowl of?
Speaker 1:tea. Yes, so, as you mentioned the word ikigai, you know I don't come across it so much in Japanese language, so from my perspective it's kind of it's not. It doesn't have a clear definition, because ikiru means to live. You know, like you feel alive. You know, that's how I would interpret it.
Speaker 1:For me, this idea of you feel alive is basically, you know, same as uh, aware and being present.
Speaker 1:Because I think you know when we are maybe doing something, uh, which is not with uh, enjoyment, let's say, or you know it's, it's, it's not really uh, you know you don't want to do it, but I think I don't know if you can feel ikigai in a bowl of tea.
Speaker 1:But we say you know putting aside all expectations and you know putting aside all desires and just kind of feeling yourself. You know how do you feel and it's, I think, a time to self-contemplate and self-reflect. So it's kind of a very personal time, it's not to chat about worldly things and I think giving that uh moment to yourself, one can feel that you are alive and maybe helps you feel ikigai. But I guess you know this is very, very difficult because the word is so catchy, just like, uh, the word Zen is catchy and it kind of has so many assumptions what it is and that creates expectations. And that's why we say it's difficult to transmit this, because people, their mind, is already full of ideas of what this is so first. That's why we say empty your cup. You first have to empty all pre-assumptions and then you can really enjoy the tea as it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that reminds me of the concept of beginner mind to go back to that state where you were open to learning, but also that you had the desire to learn and there's no assumption now that, oh, I know enough, I don't really need to learn this again. And so I guess that takes awareness, like, oh, I'm going to put aside my assumptions, what I know, and be present to learn again. And so, speaking of learning, would you like to tell us about Totosha? Is that correct? So I imagine that's a place of learning.
Speaker 1:Yes, totosha is the name of my tea house and it is a place to learn and to experience, so it's where I teach my students about what we were kind of talking about, and it's basically situated on temple grounds. It's on Daitokuji. Daitokuji is a Zen Buddhist temple. You know. Right across we have historical tea rooms where tea masters have and also samurai lords have been doing tea, so I've been here since 2013. It's also a place for my own practice, but it's basically open to anyone who is curious.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm curious, so I'd definitely like to meet you and maybe experience tea at Totosha. Another way that just came to mind was Ibasho. So would Totosha, or even a Chashitsu, be like an Ibasho for you, where you can just be yourself?
Speaker 1:Yes, ibasho is, I think, for me, the tea room is Ibasho for the tea practitioner. But we would often say it's an extension of of your body. I would say it's kind of like the secret base that, as kids you know, we would make a tree house or make a secret base using cardboard boxes or whatever you know. So it's kind of a place that you can be yourself and feel comfortable. It's also your own little cosmic world.
Speaker 2:Nice. Well, I'd love to visit your cosmic world, so how can people contact you?
Speaker 1:So I mean you can of course always look up my name and look up Totosha. I mean I don't have a webpage or anything, so somehow people who are searching find me. So yeah, if you keep on searching, we might meet.
Speaker 2:That is a frustration. I'm finding it's very hard to contact crafts people or priests, and then the most unlikely place seems to be Instagram. So I'm glad I sent you that message on Instagram because I was thinking there's no way this guy's going to reply. He's probably not even looking at his Instagram. You reply very quickly. So thank you for replying and thank you for sharing your time with me. So that's Dairiku Amai, so I might spell it out. So it's D-A-I-R-I-K and then A-M-A-E. We'll put a link to your Instagram page in the show notes and thank you so much for your time. And, yes, I'd love to experience tea with you, daeriku, in Kyoto.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you very much, so I look forward to serving you tea in Kyoto.
Speaker 2:Wonderful.