The Ikigai Podcast
The Ikigai Podcast
Ikigai Musing With Rock Legend Sunplaza Nakano Kun
Ready to let ikigai rock your world?
In this episode of the Ikigai Podcast, Nick speaks with Sunplaza Nakano Kun to explore how his music captures the spirit of ikigai and inspires his fans.
Sunplaza Nakano Kun is a Japanese musician, writer, and singer for the band BAKUFU- SLUMP (爆風スランプ). Beyond his music career, he has also worked as a radio personality and author—a man of many talents.
My guest today on the Ikigai podcast is Sanplaza Nakano-kun, a Japanese musician, writer and the singer of the band Bakufu Slump. Beyond his music career, Sanplaza Nakano-kun has also worked as a radio personality and author, a man of many talents. Please note that this episode was recorded mostly in Japanese and I provided on-the-spot translations. Some of my translations might have been incomplete or slightly off the mark, so please keep this in mind. And now let's get started with the episode. Ikigaitribe.com. Thank you very much for your time today nakuno-san honjitsu wa ojikan itadaki arigatou gozaimasu you're welcome so you have a very unique name and I'd like to hear about the origin of your name san plaza nakuno-kun wa totemo unique na onomai desu ne アマチュアバンドコンテストがありまして、 and there was an amateur band contest that evaluated us.
Speaker 2:The amateur band contest was held in Nakano Sun Plaza Hall in Nakano-ku, Tokyo, in 1981. Then, at the contest held at the Nakano Sun Plaza Hall, I won the award and was able to participate in the after party. In the after party, the introduction of myself came in. The introduction of myself came in. I thought, what should I say? I asked the woman next to me. I asked her. 何を言ったらいいんだろうと思って、隣にいた女性にですね、聞いてみました。 私は何を言ったらこの人々が笑ってくれるでしょうか、受けてくれるでしょうかっていうのを。 そしたらその女性が大変聡明な、スマートな方だったと思うんですけれども、 あなたの本名は中野でしょ? 今日やったホールの名前は中野サンプラザホールでしょ? だから中野サンプラザホールをひっくり返して、 サンプラザ中野って言ったらきっとウケるわよって言われて、 それでちょっと私は半信半疑だったんですけど、 I was a little disappointed, but when the order came around, I said, I'm Nakano Sanplaza. I was very impressed when I said that. I thought this was amazing, so I changed it to my stage name. それで20年ぐらい経ったときに、私の友人があなたの名前を声明判断したけどいまいち良くないと。 サンプラザ中野っていう名前がいまいちであると。 今一つ良くないということで、じゃあどうしたらいいんだって言ったら、私が解明するから考えるって言ってですね。 その方が送ってきてくれた名前がサンプラザ中野くんってついてまして、 それであまりの面白さに、じゃあこれを採用しようということになって、 それからサンプラザの中の君となりました。 もうとても、その女の人たちが言った通りにやっています。 I see.
Speaker 1:Okay, so from what I understand, you were part of a competition, and you won the competition and it was at a place called Sun Plaza. A lady next to you suggested that when you introduce yourself, you use Sun Plaza and your name, because I think your name also had a connection. And on the spot, you thought, ah, her advice is a good idea. And she said it would sound good and probably get a good response. And so on the spot, you said, hey, I'm Sanplaza Nakano and was obviously received well. And then later you added, I think years later many years later you added kun maybe to make it more friendly yes yes yes please thank you Thank you. ご友人たちは普段どのように呼んでいますか?
Speaker 1:中野くんあるいはサンちゃん。 サンちゃん。 サンちゃん。 面白い。 All right. Let's move on. So let's get a bit of history about you. 少し経歴を聞かせいただけますか?
Speaker 2:はい。音楽に関する経歴でいいですよね。デビュー。 そうですね、はい。 バンドを初めて、初めてバンドをやることになったのは、 初めてバンドをやることになったのは、先輩たちが作をちょっと文字ってスーパースランプというバンド名になりました。 そのスーパースランプで、 1981年の中野サンプラザでのアマチュアバンドコンテスト、 I was in the 1981 Nakano Sun Plaza Amateur Band Contest. I think I said I won, but it was the second prize. The band that was the top at that time was a band called Bapgun. その時のトップだったバンドがバップガンっていうバンドで、将来的にこのバップガンとスーパースランプが、 なわけですよ。 AP、AP、APじゃなくてなんだっけ? Combination.
Speaker 1:Combined.
Speaker 2:そうです。 それがですね、1982年の年末に我々、爆風スランプっていうバンドになりました。 だからバップガンっていうバンドとスーパースランプっていうバンドがくっついて、 スーパースランプと、爆風スランプとなりましたね。 それがアマチュアバンド活動が2年ぐらいあって、 それがアマチュアバンド活動が2年ぐらいあって、レコードデビューが1984年の8月です。 1984? Yes.
Speaker 1:それで、ちょっとヒットしたんですけど、スマッシュヒット。 we had a smash hit called you cannot do that 無理だ ちょっとヒットして テレビとかには出してもらってたんですけど まあそんなに ビッグヒットではないんで お金は 儲かってませんでしたね ビッグヒットが出たのが お金はもう買ってませんでしたね。 で、ビッグヒットが出たのが1989年、90年ぐらいですね。 その時にランナー出て、それで知名度がアップして、その後いろいろヒットして おかげさまで でまぁ今に至るって感じです Okay when you were a first year university student you were in a band called Super Slump yes and then you entered this competition and the other band that won was called, what were they called? Bapagam. Bapagam. Bapagam, yes. And then you joined the band. Yes. Two bands became one and then you became Bakufu Slump. Yes. And then a few years later you you had a hit with Murira. Yeah, Murira. And then in 1988, you had your big hit with Runner.
Speaker 2:Yes, but 1989. Ah, 1989. Okay. Yes. It's published in 88, but hit in 89.
Speaker 1:So it was recorded and released in 88, but hits the big time in 89. Yes. Wow. Nakano-kun, did you always want to be a singer? Did you always want to be a singer?
Speaker 2:Yes. In elementary school, I wrote my opinion. Dream? Yeah, dream, yes. Dream? Yeah, dream, yes. Dream job. Three dreams. Singer. Actor. Actor. Singer, actor. What was the other one? Singer, actor. I forgot.
Speaker 1:アクター 忘れた シンガーアクター だけか that's amazing so when you were young you wrote out three things that you wanted to become Two were a singer and an actor so, Young, you wrote out three things that you wanted to become. Two were a singer and an actor. And I think you've done both.
Speaker 2:You have done some acting, yes? No, no, no, no, no. That's very. Acting, not good at acting.
Speaker 1:I see. Okay, but great singer. So, no.
Speaker 3:Acting, not good at acting. I see. Okay, but great singer.
Speaker 1:So congratulations on your success. Thank you so much. I guess when you were a teenager, I'm thinking, what were your influences when you started your band? So, did you no goro ni eikyou wo ukete artist ya ongoku arimasu ka?
Speaker 2:Eto ne, boku no ongoku taiken wa, motomoto ongoku ni mezametana wa roku sai gurai nan desu kedo, sono toki wa nippon no非常 ni ureta kyoku de I was about 6 years old when I first started listening to music. At that time, I was very drunk from a very popular Japanese song, Kaette Kita Yopparai. This might be a bit difficult for foreigners to explain. It's an interesting but very social theme. It's a song that I used to handle.
Speaker 1:面白いけどすごい社会的なテーマを扱っていた曲でもあったりして でもその両面性をやっぱり未だに追求してますね 面白いユーモアエンダー社会性 社会性ってなんていうの?よくわかんないけど I might bring in my friend Shinji here so this is obviously a popular song. Nakano-kun heard when he was six years old? Yes. And what was the name of the song? So I got home drunk.
Speaker 3:Is that what I mean? Yeah. If I translate directly, drunk is back.
Speaker 1:And it was an interesting song and also representing society.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Ah, okay. So like a drunken salary man or something? Yes, yes. Yes. Ah, okay. So like a drunken salaryman or something? Yes, yes. Yes. Ah. And that song inspired you?
Speaker 2:Ah, yes. Ah. He went to paradise, tengoku.
Speaker 3:Ah, tengoku.
Speaker 2:Paradise. Heaven. Heaven, heaven. Heaven. And he drank too much and had great beautiful girls and everyday party and God said to him beautiful girls and every everyday party and God said him no no no you back to your your on earth earth so he back to he he came back as a drunk uh uh uh a character so he came back. As a drunk. Uh-uh. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:A character, he goes to heaven, he's drinking, lots of girls, having a good time. And then God says, no, no, no, no. I'm sending you back to normal. Yes, yes. Okay. Yes. So what kind of music?
Speaker 2:was it rock or pop so this name donna pop pop pop music okay yes and uh my um Junior high school. Japanese folk song. I loved. I loved. And high school student. When I was high school student, I had a little bit rock. A little bit Japanese. But only Japanese rock. So I didn't understand English. I like Japanese. Japanese music, Japanese rock. Japanese music. And I like Japanese words.
Speaker 1:Words, language. Yes. Words, language yes だから 外国の歌をあんまり 全然意味がわからないから聞かなかった I see Okay, so you can understand foreign music the lyrics and about 20 years old, punk rock.
Speaker 2:Ah, yes. And I don't know. New Wave? Yes, New Wave. Yes, right. I see. Oh, yeah, Queen. I love Freddie Mercury.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's great. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Gorgeous performer.
Speaker 1:Yes, he was the consummate performer. Great, great performer.
Speaker 2:Yes, great test, great test. Yeah. あと日本だ called RC Succession. I think that Kiyoshiro Imano is a great teacher. Master. My master. So I really respect and love Freddie and Kiyoshiro. I really respect and love Freddie and Kiyoshiro. Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, really?
Speaker 1:Oh and you had their photos and you would greet and thank them every morning. Yes. Yes. Wow. Wow. That's amazing. Well, maybe that helped you become a singer. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yes. Wow.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Well, let's talk about your band the members so band member no no maya mo totemo unique desu ne so the guitarist is papara kawaii yes and the drummer is Funky Tsuyoshi. Yes. And the bass player is Barbecue Wasuda.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Very, very unique names. Did you make these names for a special reason? Or was it just like a playful kind of idea? A playful kind of idea. So, did you intend to give him a special name? Or was it born from his playfulness?
Speaker 2:My name was given to me by someone like that. Another person, Funky Sueyoshi, the drummer Funky Sueyoshi, originally liked funk, so he, で、もう一人、ファンキー末吉、ドラマーのファンキー末吉は、もともとファンクが好きなんで、ファンクミュージック、he loves funk music. So he、自分で、俺はファンキー末吉だって、自分で名乗ってたんですね。 yes. So the barbecue Asada っていうのは bassistとして 二人目なんですね Second bassist?
Speaker 1:Yes, second bassist 彼はね ハンサムなんですよ Good looking man ちょっとねヒゲとか生やしてて Good looking man.
Speaker 2:He had a beard. How do you say that? Mexican.
Speaker 1:Like a Mexican. I've seen the photo. Yeah, I saw the photo. He looks like a Mexican with his small mustache. Thin mustache. で、最初、俺はタコス噂だ。 タコス。 タコス。 タコス噂だが、いいって言ったら、 本人がタコスはやだって言ったんです。 タコスの。 no, やだね。 no, thankada ne. No, thank you. I don't want to be tacos.
Speaker 2:じゃあ自分で考えてみろって言ったら バーベキューがいいって 本人がバーベキューならいいって言ったの。 Thank you.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting. それでそうなりました。 Okay. Alright, so the drama Funky Suiyoshi, loved funk, so he decided, I want to be Funky Suiyoshi. Yes. And then Paparak Kawai, someone in the music industry said, oh, you need a unique name. The music industry said, oh, you need a unique name. So something that's like, I guess, stands out or explodes. So Papara. And then you suggested to the bass player, who was your second bass player, he looks a little bit like a Mexican with his moustache. He had a thin moustache. So you suggested he should call himself taco, tacos wasada. But he said, no, I don't want to be tacos. So you said, think about it. And then he came up with barbecue. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Very good. Very interesting. You went on to have great success. So I'm wondering, your dream came true and people loved your music and still love your music. This was between the 80s and 90s. So 80s to 90s. How did it feel to have the success and have people love your music?
Speaker 2:Let me see. もういっぱいいるんで、もっと売れたいなって思ってました。 I see. で、それと同時に仕事がものすごく忙しくて、ちょっとね、メンタル的にやられました。 oh, really? Stress? Yes, stress. So, too stress. Too much stress. Too much stress. Too deep.
Speaker 1:Too deep, I see.
Speaker 2:まあ、確かにね。 なので、いろいろやっぱバンドの中もうまくいかなくなったりして、 で、お休みになっちゃったんですけどね。 でも、その後もずっとね、 ランナーっていう歌に関しては、 とにかく、 エレメンタリースクールで、 スポーツイベントの旅にかかるんですよね。 日本中でスポーツイベントの旅にかかるんで、 みんなが知ってる歌としてですね、 たぶん僕は日本で一番知ってる人が多いロックナンバーなんじゃないかなと思っています。 Wow. Wow. まあせいぜい30代ぐらいにガーンって売れるんですけど、その後続いていかないじゃないですか。 続いていかないというか、この世代がブワーッと知ってるぞ、好きだぞっていう世代がどんどん年はとってしまうけれども、 この曲、ここで売れた曲はこっちの若い、幼い世代代には全然知らない曲になっちゃうんですよね。 だけどランナーっていう曲はスポーツイベントでかかり続けたことによって、 特にスクールもね、エレメンタリースクール、ジュニアハイスクール等々の学校でかかり続けたことによって、 とにかく知ってる人が増えていった。 だからそれに関しては本当に嬉しい、ラッキーだったなって思っています。 こういう売れ方してる曲ってなかなかないだろうなと思います。 Wow.
Speaker 1:So that's quite a story. So after your initial success, you were working, you were stressed, there was some tension in the band, and this impacted your mental health deeply. But your song Rana started to be used at sports events in all schools all over Japan. And so this song was not just like a generational song of one generation. Yes. It was actually became well-known and loved, I guess, by schoolchildren and teenagers and maybe, I guess, even the parents of the schoolchildren, yeah? And it became probably the most well-known rock song in Japan in the late 80s. And I think you sold 600,000 copies. 60 copies. Yes. And so you couldn't, you never imagined this success, this response to one song. So it made you very happy and very grateful.
Speaker 2:Yes インパクトを日本中にもたらすことができて、本当幸せです。 OK.
Speaker 1:So more than selling 600,000, the fact that it was used at schools all over Japan is what makes you really happy. Fantastic. Thank you. Once in a lifetime, once in a hundred lifetimes, that's incredibly rare and special.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:ありがとうございます。 so let's talk about one other song. もう一つの一曲。 大きなためにぎの下で so in English, under the big onion. This refers to the Budokan, which is one of Japan's most famous venues for concerts. And your song's title references, is obviously a reference to the Budokan. So, yeah, do you want to tell us the origin of this song? The story behind this song?
Speaker 2:Yes. お願いします。 はい。 大きなたまねぎの下でというのは、 もともと日本の子どもたち向けの歌で、 大きな栗の木の下でっていう歌があるんですけれども、 タイトル自体はそこから、 そこをちょっとパロディーしてつけましたが、 パロディーっていうところにポイントがあって、 この歌はそもそもとてもいい曲に仕上がっちゃったんですけれども、 そもそもはお笑いソング、コミカルソングとして作り始めました。 なんでそのコミカルソングが必要だったかというと、 私たちの武道館コンサートが企画されまして、 企画されまして、満員にしろっていうふうにレコード会社の偉い人から強く命令されまして、 でもその時我々はデビューして1年も経ってなかったんですね。 やっと小さいホールでコンサートができたその日に言われまして、 何しろそのホール1000人ぐらいだったんですけど、 武道館だと7000、8000、9000ぐらいの数字なんで、 最初はありがとうございます、頑張ります、満員にしますって言って、 プロモーション活動頑張ろうと思ってたんですけど、だんだん絶対無理なんじゃないかっていう思いに押しつぶされまして、 無理だわって思ったので、何か対策を立てなきゃいけないと思って。 空席が、お客さんの席が空いてると、応援して見に来てくれたお客さんがちょっとがっかりするじゃないですか。 なので、お前が今見た空席は、実はチケットは売れてるんだぞと。 チケット売れてるんだけど、相手がなんでだか知らないけど来てないんだよ。 それは、ペンフレンドの男の子がチケットを女の子に送ったけど、女の子がなぜか来てくれないんだ。 そういう物語がお前が今見てるその空席にはあるんだぞっていうのを歌で示せば、 みんな我々のコンサートの武道館が空席だらけでも、 みんな納得してくれるんじゃないかなっていうのをコミカルな歌詞で書こうと思ったんですよ。 OK, I think I understand.
Speaker 1:So first, it was inspired by a popular children's song, at least the title, under a big mushroom, I guess.
Speaker 2:A big marron?
Speaker 1:Chestnut. Chestnut, chestnut. And then I think once you had some success, a manager basically said, you've got to write a song quickly. Song quickly, in your mind you had this image of performing at the Budokan and there would be some empty seats. And the idea was that you had actually sold out, but all the guys had invited their pen friend girlfriends and sent the ticket, but they had not shown up. And so it didn't matter because you felt it doesn't matter. We sold all the tickets, so it doesn't matter if there are some empty seats and that's that's the lyrics of the song is that is the right shinji yep yep you're right okay so it seems your songs have a story in them yeah many of your songs yeah 段々段々書いてるうちにいい歌になってきちゃって これお笑いの歌じゃないよっていうふうに周りの方に言われて どんどんどんどん だんだんそうかと思って いろいろ武道館にまで行ってですね 現場をロケ版して ここのお堀のほとりで I went to the studio and recorded it.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, this is the place where the man is crying. I kept writing and writing, and it became a really good song. I didn't know why I could make such a good song, but I think it was probably written by God. I think it's probably the most famous Gotochi song in Japan. I don't think it's being sung. It's really strange. I thought I'd make a song that would make people laugh, but I don't know if it's a song that makes people cry. I see.
Speaker 1:Your intention was to just write a comical or funny song, and you did, but it was received by people as, no, this is a good song. This is a good song. This is a meaningful song. And you did perform at the Budokan as well. So it became like reality. And then I think I've lost everything else, Shinji. So do you want to help me out? Yeah, what else did Nakano-kun say?
Speaker 3:What else did Nakano-kun say? So he said he didn't understand why the song became the serious good song. So it may be God gave him the idea and lyrics.
Speaker 1:So God was giving you a helping hand.
Speaker 2:Yes you a helping hand. Yes, yes. So, you know, what does a big onion mean? It's on the hall called Budokan. It's on the hall. It's called Giboshi. It's a Buddhist decoration. It's not onion, but it's a 仏教のいわゆる飾りで、玉ねぎではないんですけど、ネギの花だそうです。 花から来てる。ネギ坊主ってやつですかね。から来てるらしいです。 OK.
Speaker 1:So the Budokans are often referred to as the big onion, and there's some reference to Buddhism. Is it the bud of an onion, the beginning of an onion? Is that what it looks like?
Speaker 3:The flower of an onion.
Speaker 1:The flower of an onion, yeah Onion, negi.
Speaker 2:Negi no hana nan. Sorry.
Speaker 1:Spring onion.
Speaker 3:an onion. Yeah. Onion. Spring onion. Spring onion.
Speaker 1:Ah, spring onion, yeah. Okay. So the flower of a spring onion. Okay. And so sort of philosophically, there's this maybe connection of the song to the Buddhokan to Buddhism. Yeah. I see. Well, that's amazing. And then it's been 40 years since you, or 41 years 41 years, I guess now that you started your band. So last year you released a song called Ikigai that got my attention. So last year, in commemoration of the 40th anniversary, the band finally came together and released a song called Ikigai. 年を記念して バンドが 再集結し 生きがえという曲を レディーされました I love this song, I love the video I watch it every day あの曲と ミュージックビデオ 大好きです、毎日見ています で、ノリが ノリがいいよ Thank you so much. It gets me in a good, very good mood. So, yeah, and it's my favorite word, ikigai. Yeah, why did you write a song about ikigai? Na ze ikigai wo teime ni kyoku wo kakou to omattu no desu ka?
Speaker 2:Hai. Yes. I like to research about health. I like to research about health. So, on Netflix, there are a lot of healthy documentary videos. And one of them is. What was it? Blue Zones. Blue Zones, yes. And when I watched it, there were five Blue Zones in the world. And one of them was Okinawa. That's right. その中のブルーンゾーンズが世界に5つあって、一つが沖縄だったんですね。 そうですね。 沖縄の老人たちが、長生きしてる方たちが、生き甲斐っていう言葉を語り出していて、日本人にとっても生き甲斐っていう言葉を久々に聞いたなって思ったんですよね。 で、その生きがいについて、そのブルーゾーンズの中で言っていることに対して、 あ、生きがいって改めて必要だよな、素晴らしいなって思ったんですね。 で、この生きがいをやっぱり今の日本に、生きがいなんて言葉すっかり忘れてたよっていう、今の日本にぶつけたら、きっとみんな何かお金以外の目的で働くんだっていうのと、お金以外の目的を持ってるから健康にか生きる目的というか生きる哲学を歌をぶつけてみたいなと思いました。 I see. Okay, great. Butsu kete mitai na tomo imashita.
Speaker 1:I see. Okay, great. So you like researching health and looking up health. And then on Netflix, you were watching documentaries on health, and you saw one about the blue zones. And there are five blue zones, and one of them is in Okinawa.
Speaker 1:And you heard that the elderly Japanese, the very healthy elderly Japanese, say one of the reasons they live long is because of ikigai. They have an ikigai. And that made you think and you thought, in general, Japanese have kind of, they don't really use the word ikigai maybe they've forgotten ikigai and they work really only for money so you wanted to remind them or inspire them to have ikigai people, I guess, middle-aged and so that was one of the reasons you wrote the song, yes? Yes. That's great. Yes, that's inspiring. And so what's interesting, you had the idea of the song and the first version was reggae style and you presented it to the band. Yes. And I think, was it the drummer who said, no, no, no, this is not good. We should do it in a rap style. We should do it in a rap style. So they suggested to you to do it in rap, and you had never done rap before.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I did rap in 1984 or 1985. You knew about rap. You knew about rap. You knew about rap. You knew about rap. Yes. I didが流行って、今でいうところのオールドスクールラップ。 でもこの40年近くやってなかったんで、 俺がラップやっていいのかなとは思いましたけど、 いろんなラップももちろん聞いてたんで、いろんな人のラップをね。 I don't really listen to the other people's opinions. I wasn't really conscious of it. I didn't think I was good at it. I didn't think I was good at it. I pretended to do it. It was a difficult expression.
Speaker 1:I see. Okay. So in the 80s, you were aware of rap and you used to listen to Ram DMC, so old school rap. You didn't do rap for 40 years. And then, but you realized there are different types of rap. I guess you came up with a katarir up with a katarap, like storytelling rap.
Speaker 2:Katarap, yes.
Speaker 1:Yes. You decided, well, I won't worry about what people will say. I will just try and see how it goes. And you decided to record the song as storytelling rap but you said it was difficult yeah yeah so this this song looks difficult to sing so it's a fun song it's really fun Well, I'm nervous.
Speaker 2:I'm still nervous.
Speaker 1:I see. It's a fun song. It's really fun. Thank you. So what was it like to record the song with the band? So what was it like to make this song with the band? What was your experience making this song?
Speaker 2:It was a very happy experience. It was my 40th anniversary, so I had to think about how I would celebrate my 40th anniversary.
Speaker 1:どうやって40周年を迎えるかっていうことがあったんですけれども、 やっぱバンドを動かしたいっていうことを事務所の人にもずっと相談して、 2年ぐらい前からずっとお願いしてたんで、 really I see so it was a wonderful experience and the Jimshaw I guess is your studio or company or your representatives. And it was about two years of thinking about and discussing how can we look back on 40 years and create a song. And so it sounds like a lot of time and effort went into making this song. So congratulations.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:How was it received by your fans? So how did your fans react to this song? How did you like the response from the audience? The song's momentum.
Speaker 2:Yes. I've been given a very good reputation. Especially, in the early days of the Bakufu Slump, especially when I was influenced by Randy MCA and rapped a little, I liked a lot of his interesting songs. I really liked them.
Speaker 1:ラップをちょこっとやっていた頃の面白い曲をいっぱい好きだった、とても好きだった時代の人たちから、いい評判をいただいております。 well received people love the song especially people from the generation who loved run dmc yeah so connected with them well awesome so let's talk about the lyrics so in in the song you talk about love, family, work, even politics. So I'm wondering if this is how you see people's ikigai can be, family, work, and politics. Can these be the key to the survival of people?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:That's why I chose these four. ラブはいいとして説明いらないし、家族も説明いらないし、 それからなんだ? 仕事? 仕事も説明いらないし、 そしてこの生活と政治っていうポイントが、 社会性もやっぱり必要だよっていう 人間は まあ分かりやすい言葉で言うと 人との絆も必要だし 一人一人 身近な人との絆も大事だし 社会性全体とのつながりを 持っているんだよっていうことをちゃんと意識していくっていうのも、 社会からのレスポンスも受けるし、友達からのレスポンスも受けるし、家族からのレスポンスも受けるし、 愛する人とのレスポンスも受けるし、 I see.
Speaker 1:Thank you. So I think you said, obviously, love and family and work are fairly common sources of ikigai, but you wanted to emphasise we live in a society and so politics is something we need to be aware of. And I think you said something more about that. Shinji, what am I missing? It's almost perfect. Okay. So let's talk about ikigai in the context or in a context outside of Japan. So ikigai is is very popular in Japan? Do you know that the concept of living abroad is very popular in Japan?
Speaker 2:That's a little. I thought that's what it was like to watch a documentary movie, but in fact, the, Funky Sueyoshi, went to the UK while making this song. From the UK, he sent me a photo of a place called Ikigai Cafe. As Nakano said, the name Ikigai 写真を送ってきたんですよ。 で、本当に中野が言ってる通り、 生きがいっていう名前がなんかヨーロッパでも受けてるぞっていう感じで、 あと俺の友達がインドのダラムサラっていう、 ダライラマさんが住んでる山の中にも生きがいカフェっていうのがあって 本当に生きがいっていう言葉は こんなに世の中で世界的に受けてるんだなっていうのが その生きがいっていう曲を作り出してから 情報として集まってきたんで 最初は半信半疑だったんですけど 今びっくりしてます。 OK.
Speaker 1:Alright, so your drummer was in London?
Speaker 2:Nearby London.
Speaker 1:Near London. Or England?
Speaker 2:England, yes.
Speaker 1:And he saw a cafe called Ikigai Cafe. And he took a photo and sent it to you. And then you have a friend in India who also saw an Ikigai Cafe. Yes. And you started to realize, oh, this word Ikigai has been received and accepted outside of Japan, and you were quite surprised. Yes.
Speaker 2:実際のところはどうなんですか、 生きがいっていう言葉は、 そんなに世界的に人気になってるんですか、 コンセプトは。 そう、人気になってるんですか?コンセプト。 まあ、そう、人気になってるけど、意味はちょっと間違ってる。 えっ?
Speaker 1:で、これから説明する。 I will explain how ikigai is perceived in the West or outside of Japan. Ikigai is perceived in the West or outside of Japan. 海外では、 生きがいは好きなこと、得意なこと、 世界が求めていること、 そして報酬を得られることが、 数なるスウィートスポットとして理解されている。 there's like a Venn diagram. 見たことある、見たことある、その絵は、イラスト。 そうね。 このような解釈についてどう思われますか?
Speaker 2:あ、えっと、だいたい正しいと思いますけど。 what do you think about the interpretation? I think it's pretty correct. Really? What do you think is wrong?
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, but I think it's hard for Nick to explain. I'll interrupt you. In other countries, if you do what you like, and make money, that's the best. That's what I mean. That's the nuance. Nick is Japanese, his wife is Japanese, and he's been living there for 10 years. When I think about how I feel about living there, I think it's a little different.
Speaker 2:10年ぐらい住まれていて 生きがい っていうことを考えたときに ちょっとそれと違うな もうちょっと精神的なものが 大きいんじゃないかなみたいな 心を感じている それはそうですね 好きなこと お金 そこに社会貢献 っていう 好きなことやって お金を稼ぐだけだと、じゃあ人に迷惑かけていいのかとか、地域コミュニティを乱してぶっ壊していいのかとか、そういう問題がはらまれてくるんで、精神的な高潔さみたいなのはそこ必要ですよね。 確かに。 何の言葉? でも俺も図を完璧に読み込んだわけじゃないんで、 こういう図ができてるんだなっていう程度にしか思ってなかったんで。 でも、つまり社会貢献っていうことに関してもお金が介在するのは えっとねこれ俺の考えか日本人全体の考えかわかんないけど結構あるんですよね あのボランティアして ちょっとお金もらってもいいじゃない っていうのは 僕の考えとしてはいいと思ってるんですよ でその外国人の というか白人のね あのボランティアの 考え方っていうのは もちろん一銭ももらわない 一銭ももらわないでテレビに出て ものすごいキャンペーンしてお金をもらうっていうのが 白人かなアンゴルサクソンかな 欧米のスターたちの考え方だと思うんですね アメリカの考え方と日本の考え、日本で現在行われている考え方の違いっていうのは、僕はちょっと、僕なりの説を持っていて、アメリカのミュージシャンって、ワールドワイドじゃないですか、マーケットが。 日本人のミュージシャンのマーケットって、 すっごい小さいんですよ。 アメリカに比べたら。 だから、儲かってるお金の量が断然違うわけですよ。 何十億円儲けてる人が、 買ってるお金の量が断然違うわけですよ。 何十億円儲けてる人が、 じゃあ何十万円もらってテレビ出ますって言ったら、 セコいなお前ってことになるけど、 日本のミュージシャンなんて、 本当にアメリカでバカ売れしてるミュージシャンと比べたらビビタルものなわけですよ、日本の芸能人なんてね。 だからそこにコマーシャルリズムが入ってきて、いくばっか ドネーションっていうことに対する 気持ちはあるわけだから いいじゃないかと そういうことを考えると 沖縄のおじいさんたちが 生きがいとして自分のできる 例えばおじいさんおじいさんたちが生きがいとして自分のできる、 例えばおじいさんおばあさんたちが自分ができる裁縫とかをして、 それを世間に、裁縫でも農業でもいいんですけど、 世間に買ってもらってやるっていう、 お金いただくっていう、これ現役としての喜びがあるわけですよ。 俺はもう終わった人間じゃないんだ。 俺は今現役として物作ってこれ売って、本当にビビたるお金だけどもらって評価してもらってる。 俺の野菜を評価してくれてるんだ。 私が作ったお洋服を評価していただいてるんだって、 評価が感謝の言葉だけじゃなくて、 お金も入ってくることによって、 その生き甲斐っていうのは成り立つんだなと、 私は思うわけです。 OK.
Speaker 1:私は思うわけです これはだからすごく小さい ソサエティの中で 成り立っていることなんで お金の循環も必要だし 愛の循環も必要だし ということですからね I see Okay, I think you said quite a bit, and I might ask for your help in a minute, Shinji, but I think what you're saying, it's okay for people to maybe grow their vegetables or make some clothing and maybe sell it at a market and not only get gratitude but receiving monies also, I guess, makes you feel good. So that can be part of the Ikigai experience. I think also Nakano Kun was talking about the big difference between American artists or popular artists from, I guess, English-speaking countries compared to Japanese artists, the difference in, I guess, wealth or sales is quite significant. And so maybe that's influenced his idea of ikigai or making music. Do you want to fill me in, Shinji?
Speaker 3:So he said, so Japanese market is really small for Japanese musicians. So the income is not so big. So if they had a volunteer TV program or something, something, but they can if they get money on the frontier, it's not a bad thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I guess it's context.
Speaker 3:But he's saying money is sometimes necessary for the Ichigai.
Speaker 1:That's the necessary. Yeah, yeah. For the rich guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but small, not in a big way, in a small way? Yeah, yes, yes, yes, that's right.
Speaker 2:And also, in the Blue Zones? Blue Zones.
Speaker 1:沖縄の人たちだけ現役なんです。 はい。 だから日本以外のブルーゾーンズでリタイアしてる人たちは、 生きがいっていう言葉の発想がなかったんですよね。 私たちは何十年働いてきた、お金も裕福にある、あるいは年金ももらってる。 だからこんなに体にいいものを食べて、体にいい気候の下で長生きできてますっていう。 そうですね。 沖縄の人たちは大してお金ないけど、ちょこちょこちょこちょこ現役として引退してないんですよね 現役なんだ我々はっていう そこに生き甲斐があるんだぞっていうことなので その生き甲斐にお金がついてくるのは当たり前 当たり前というかっていうことを言ってると思うんですよね I see but Actually we're getting A message here that we need to finish up so so yes there's many interpretations Of Ikigai and there's this idea that yeah if you make Some money from your Ikigai it's okay and in Okinawa that seems also part of it for some people. So let's finish up. Nakano-kun, Sun Plaza Nakano-kun, thank you so much for your time today. It was an honour to meet you. And if you have a good life, you can have fun, right? Yes. Yes. So thank you for your time today. Thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was a very fun interview. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for translating. Yes. Thank you, Shinji, for your help.
Speaker 3:Thank you.