The Ikigai Podcast
The Ikigai Podcast
Finding and Feeling Ikigai at Work with Kensuke Yamamoto
What if work wasn't something we simply endured, but instead became a vibrant source of meaning and purpose? Kensuke Yamamoto, senior consultant at Vanto Group, joins us to challenge the deeply ingrained assumption that work must be an obligation rather than a wellspring of fulfillment.
Against the backdrop of Japan's evolving business landscape—where 99.7% of companies are small and medium enterprises facing unprecedented demographic challenges—Kensuke reveals how the concept of ikigai (life purpose) can transform workplace cultures. Drawing from his experience implementing high-performance initiatives across Japanese organizations, he explores the striking contrast between Western individualistic approaches to job satisfaction and the Japanese emphasis on finding meaning through relationships, harmony, and contribution to others.
Delving into Vanto Group's groundbreaking methodology, Kensuke illuminates how changing the way situations "occur" to people fundamentally shifts their actions and engagement. Using the powerful metaphor of three bricklayers—one merely laying bricks, another building a wall, and a third constructing a cathedral—he demonstrates how vision and purpose elevate ordinary tasks into meaningful contributions. The conversation weaves together Japanese concepts like yarigai (sense of meaning in tasks), hatarakigai (fulfillment from the work environment), and ibasho (psychological belonging) to paint a comprehensive picture of what truly enables people to thrive at work.
Whether you're leading a team, reimagining your organization's culture, or seeking greater meaning in your own career, this conversation offers profound insights into creating workplaces where both people and results flourish. Join us as we explore how intentional dialogue about purpose can transform obligation into opportunity, and how the integration of ikigai principles might just be the key to sustainable business success in our rapidly changing world.
I believe the biggest barrier is the deeply ingrained, often unconscious, assumption that work is something you just endure or something you do out of necessity to make a living. When this mindset takes root, people tend to close off their own potential and accept a sense of obligation as the norm. Potential and accept a sense of obligation as the norm.
Speaker 2:My guest today on the Ikigai podcast is Kensuke Yamamoto, a senior consultant at Vanto Group, a boutique global consulting firm serving corporations, organizations and institutions in a variety of industry and fields and institutions in a variety of industry and fields. Kentsuke specializes in creating new relationships with prospective clients in Japan to support them in implementing high-performance initiatives and enabling them to achieve unprecedented business results within their organizations. Prior to joining Vanto Group, kinski held sales roles in active pharmaceutical ingredients and has extensive experience in the pharmaceutical industry. Kinski holds a bachelor's degree in economics from the University of California Davis, and Kinski is a three-time Ironman triathlete finisher and winner of the Ironman Bittan in his age group in 2012. So that's very impressive. Welcome to the podcast, kensuke.
Speaker 1:Hello. Thank you very much for this invitation, Nick.
Speaker 2:My pleasure. It was good to meet you, so let's share that story. We met through our mutual friend, ken Moggi, at a dinner at the University of Tokyo in I think it was in May. Ken is a fun, playful thought leader. He's also a celebrity neuroscientist and you connected with Ken through Ikigai. So do you want to share how that came about?
Speaker 1:Yes, so do you want to share how that came about? Yes, so there's a magazine called Nikkei Top Leader, and last year they held a commemorative event for their 40th anniversary. Professor Mogi Mogi Sensei was a speaker at the event and I attended as a participant. He spoke about Ikigai and business management, and what he shared was highly compatible with the Bantam Group methods. That's how our connection began.
Speaker 2:I see, when I arrived, you were talking to Ken and so I met you. We had a good chat and we got to know each other and we've stayed in contact. So, yeah, it's really good to have you on the podcast today. So let's talk about your background. Would you like to share some background?
Speaker 1:Yes. So regarding my family, so right now I live in Kawasaki City with my wife and two-year-old son. I'm originally from Takasago City in Hyogo Prefecture, a town with a rich history that's also known for the no-play Takasago. I spent 18 years there before moving to Osaka at age 18 to study chemistry at Kansai University. So in the first year, in the fall of my first year, a friend recommended that I read Ryotaro Shiba, very famous writer Shiba Ryotaro no Ryomagayuku that's the title. That book had a profound impact on me. I strongly felt that I wanted to break through the stagnation of the times, just like Ryoma did. At the time, japan was in the aftermath of the bubble, economy collapsed and although global relations were being widely discussed, there was a sense of inertia and lack of progress Amid the atmosphere. I dared to broaden my perspective by going abroad. I began to grow and I made the decision to study up overseas.
Speaker 2:I see Ryoma Gayuku translates to Ryoma goes his way. Is that correct?
Speaker 1:I'm not sure, but there's an English version, I believe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've just checked it, so that's what I think it means. So, in a way, you decided to go your own way and you went to the USS. So how did living in the US influence your life?
Speaker 1:Yes, what I'm most proud of is that for nearly five years, I fully committed myself to both academics and triathlon. While living abroad, I studied from a place where I could barely speak the language, constantly faced the reality of my own limitations and still never gave up. I stayed true to pursuing both intellectual and physical excellence until the very end intellectual and physical excellence until the very end. By the way, in Japanese culture we have a concept called Bunbu Ryodo, which literally means the dual path of pen and sword. It comes from the way of the samurai, not only mastering academics, but also maintaining strengths in martial arts, and in my interpretation, that includes modern sports as well. That way of life, striving in both mind and body, is how I choose to live.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love Bushido philosophy. So Ryodo means both paths.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Ryodo means both pathways.
Speaker 2:Bun means literature and Bu means martial arts.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So that's very inspiring, kensuke. You went to a different country, you couldn't speak the language and you excelled academically and also did these triathlons, which are very challenging. Do you still exercise today?
Speaker 1:Yes, not much, but yes, I do swimming a few times in a month and also for a week. I do convict conditioning.
Speaker 2:Convict conditioning? I think you told me so. Is that what they do in the prison system?
Speaker 1:Yes, something like that. So in the prison there's no you know, waiting machine or everything equipment. That's why they use their weight to do push-ups, pull-ups, leg raises and et cetera.
Speaker 2:Largely body weight activities. Body weight exercises, yes, but you're not a convict, are you Not convict? Okay, so well, let's talk about the business landscape in japan. That's where you are, you're in, in business, and I think when people think about business in japan or business brands, they think of brands such as sony, toyota, yamaha and nintendo. All these brands come to mind, but I recently discovered that most businesses in Japan are small to medium enterprises. Would you like to touch on that?
Speaker 1:Yes, so, as you said, yes, in fact, small and medium-sized enterprises SMEs make up 99.7% of all companies in Japan. This is a reference to the 2024 white paper by the Small and Medium Enterprise Agency. So this is the official data. So, from manufacturing to service industries, they play a vital role in supporting regional economies. That's why SMEs are absolutely essential when discussing the landscape of Japanese business.
Speaker 2:That's amazing 99.7%. So that's like almost all yes and I recently watched a documentary about this and discovered that japan's small and medium-sized enterprises, so smes, face a multitude of challenges, including an aging workforce, high operation costs, difficulty financing, a lack of digitalization, all which threaten their sustainability and growth. So would you like to touch on this?
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly as you said. Japan's small and medium-sized enterprises SMEs are currently facing numerous challenges. Among them, labor shortages and aging populations are particularly serious. Looking at the labor shortage from a broader perspective, a recent report showed that only 680,000 babies were born in 2024, which is last year. 30 years ago, that number was 1 million, so this gives us a clear picture of how declining birth rates will impact the future workforce.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is interesting. I think everyone knows Japan has this aging population, declining birth rate. Then there's also obviously this small to medium enterprises where there's no ascension or no inherit, like no one's inheriting these businesses because a lot of children take on different jobs. So it's quite a significant problem. I think there's something about. Is it called the seller's job market?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So let me explain the currently the job market situation. So right now, Japan's job market is sellers. So Japan has a unique hiring system known as Shinsotsu Saiyo, which is the new graduate only new graduate recruitment, and the job opening to applicants ratio for 2025 university graduate is now 1.75. Just the other day, I heard from an SME owner who said that preference for big-name companies among job seekers is growing. Large corporations are aggressively hiring, taking in SMEs, and they are competing over a very small pool of candidates. So in this environment, building a truly attractive company and communicating that effectively to the public is more important than ever to the public is more important than ever. I believe this is one of the key challenges SMEs must tackle.
Speaker 2:So all the talent, new talent or all these university graduates end up competing for positions in larger companies in major cities, and then these SMEs are missing on, I guess the best graduates or the most knowledgeable graduates, and then what's left over they're competing with. But SMEs make up 99.7% of business, so it should be the opposite. All these graduates should be going to SMEs. But I guess the allure or the attraction of a big company is exciting for graduates. They want to work for a big company, get a good salary. I guess there's brand value if we talk about Sony or Toyota, and so I think this is where you help in your business, and maybe we'll talk about that a little bit later. Over the last decades, I think, Japan's workplace culture has dramatically changed. So how has workplace culture?
Speaker 1:changed in Japan in the past several decades. So over the past few decades, japan's workplace culture has undergone significant change. In the past, lifetime employment and seniority-based promotion were the norm and era when people were expected to dedicate their lives to the company, but today, more and more individuals value their own time and seek meaningful work. This shift is especially evident among younger generations, who tend to prioritize dialogue and empathy over rigid hierarchies. I feel that if organizations don't adapt to this cultural change, they'll struggle to retain talent.
Speaker 2:So this is interesting. Younger Japanese are wanting work that's, I guess, more meaningful, where they have dialogue and empathy and not this rigid hierarchy of, I guess, what was tradition, especially seniority-based promotion, where simply because you get older you get promoted rather than your skills or contribution. And so you think this. You know businesses must change with this cultural change. So yeah, Japan was famous for lifetime employment. That was like the trade-off If you work for our company, we'll give you lifetime employment, so work hard, and then, when you retire, give you lifetime employment, so work hard, and then when you retire, you can enjoy retirement. But that's changed. Traditional aspects of long working hours, I think, still remain in Japan, but there is this growing emphasis on work-life balance, flexible work arrangements and a focus on employee well-being. And I know this change is driven by government initiatives evolving employee attitudes and companies adapting to attract and retain talent in the competitive market you just talked about, but I'm not sure I believe it. So is it really true? Are Japanese working fewer hours?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's true. Japanese working hours have definitely decreased over the past few decades. Let me explain. Back in the 1970s, the average was over 2,200 hours per year, but now it has dropped to the 1600-hour range. This shift is largely due to work style reforms and efforts to correct long working hours. So, interestingly, the US still averages over 1800 hours a year longer than Japan, despite the persistent image of Japanese people work too much. The fact that Americans now work more is not widely known. So, that said, japan's workplace culture still tends to value being present at the company, even if productivity isn't necessarily high. So while total hours may be decreasing, the unspoken expectation to stay late still lingers, making it hard to judge everything purely by numbers.
Speaker 2:I remember when I first worked for a company in Japan it was for an izakaya chain. The company was called Daisho Corporation and they had the Shoya izakaya chain, which is still think it's a pretty big chain of izakaya restaurants in Tokyo to the head office to meet the president's wife for Japanese lessons. And yeah, there was this sense of presenteeism, like the staff would just stay there and maybe not really work, because sometimes we'd stay there, we'd have lessons in the afternoon or the evening and yeah, they just weren't working, but they had to stay there until the boss went home. And once the boss went home, and then once the president went home or the president's wife went home, everyone else could go home. But that was in the 1990s, so hopefully that's changed.
Speaker 2:I recently told you about Australia's new law of right to disconnect and so now in Australia, once you go home, your employer cannot email you or they're not really allowed to text you about work. So there is this kind of hard stop at five o'clock Once you finish work, that's it no text, no emails. But I don't think that happens in. Probably it doesn't happen in most countries. Maybe Australia is quite unique. So do you think a lot of Japanese work after hours at home. Do you think they're doing emails and stuff after hours?
Speaker 1:It depends on the people, but in my sense I don't think most people, especially young people, don't work after this time, then no more, until the next day they go.
Speaker 2:So they're still doing a bit of work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Before this interview, I looked into your LinkedIn page and you wrote the following on LinkedIn Recently, Dr Ken Moggy's bestselling book Ikigai has been very popular in the world. Our methodology enables people to have Ikigai at work, which attributes to sustainable growth and unprecedented business results. I want employees to have their Ikigai at work and enjoy their work. This is what I'm committed to causing or to bringing about in the world, so that's great. I think everyone should feel ikigai at work. Work should be meaningful, and so when we talk about work, finding or feeling ikigai at work, we can also use terms like yarigai or hatarakigai, and I know yarigai is the most common of these words. I remember living in Japan and always hearing of these words. I remember living in Japan and always hearing yarigagarune and very conversational. I never heard hataraki gai and then I rarely heard ikigai. So would you like to touch on the use of these terms?
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely so. Yarigai and hataraki gai are at the very core of what we call ikigai at work. Yarigai refers to the sense of meaning and personal value one feels in the work they do, while Hatarakigai is a broader concept that includes things like the workplace environment, relationships with colleagues and the feeling of personal growth. Our methodology focuses not only on generating breakthrough business results, but also on enabling individuals to feel that they are freely and authentically expressing themselves at work. And authentically expressing themselves at work. We believe that kind of workplace where people experience that sense of aliveness and contribution is what truly drives sustainable growth and meaningful outcomes. That's why I'm deeply committed to creating a world where people can experience their ikigai through the work they do.
Speaker 2:I think it's so important. We spend eight hours, maybe 10 hours a day working and our work should be meaningful, have a sense of purpose, challenging. We should grow, we should learn. It should have this balance of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. But a lot of people don't enjoy their work. It's just a job. They look forward to the weekend and they look forward to going home and maybe having a beer, watching TV. So I think it's important.
Speaker 2:What you're trying to do, yeah, you know what you're doing Creating a world where people can experience ikigai through their work. And, yeah, the nuances of these words so it almost sounds like yarigai is the practical, the immediate, what you do. And then hatarakigai, yeah, is this broader concept that includes all the elements of work, environment, relationships. So we want to have this. I mean yadigai is from the verb yaru, to do, so we want to do work that's meaningful. And then, if we do work that's meaningful, I guess we feel ikigai. This leads us, I guess, to the western interpretation of ikigai, which you know. So. So how do japanese, how do their cultural perspectives on work and ikigai differ from western ideas of job satisfaction or passion? Is ikigai more about service and harmony in the Japanese context?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what a fascinating topic. In Western cultures, values like passion and self-actualization often take center stage, and work with frequently viewed as a vehicle for fulfilling one's personal dreams. In contrast, the Japanese concept of ikigai tends to emerge more strongly from relationships with others and the sense of harmony. There's a deep-rooted joy in feeling useful to someone or sensing connection with the people around you. In that sense, japanese culture emphasizes contribution and wa, which is harmony over individual self-expression. Many people in Japan find meaning in work by knowing they are helping others, and that feeling becomes a source of ikigai. Personally, I find the greatest sense of fulfillment in seeing my clients or team members grow and transform. That's where the meaning of my work lies, and I believe it's also what connects me to my ikigai. In this light, ikigai might be better understood not as a form of inner satisfaction, but as a felt sense that arises within relationships, as Mogi-sensei wrote in his book Ikigai. Ikigai is the accumulation of small joys that arise from our connections with society and others.
Speaker 2:I tend to agree. I think ikigai is tied to your social world, your relationships, your roles. If that's work, yeah, it's how you support your colleagues, how they support you, and I guess that involves harmony, teamwork, working together to achieve business goals. And yeah, as you said, in the West there is this tendency for self-actualization or self-growth, self-development, self-achievement. In the West it's all about me, but in Japan it's kind of more all about we. You know us. So I think that's unique and I've always loved that about Japan. So, to talk about your work, you want employees to have their Ikigai work, as you just mentioned, and enjoy their work. So is this part of what you do at Vanto, where you work?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's exactly the essence of what we do at the Vanto Group. Our core competency lies in creating organizational alignment, so in other words, a shared sense of direction across the entire company. Through that process, each employee shifts from working with a sense of obligation or compliance to genuinely engaging with the organization's vision and goals as their own. So we are deeply committed to the idea that when conversations change, people change and organizations change, and we've seen this happen time and again. People who were once just doing the job begin to see themselves as active contributors to the company's success by becoming part of shaping the future of the organization. A natural sense of meaning and fulfillment in work begin to emerge. That's why I believe a workplace where people can feel ikigai is something we can absolutely create intentionally.
Speaker 2:It almost sounds like you're creating a e-bash hall, a place for employees to have a sense of belonging, they contribute. I guess the company's vision or goal also becomes their vision or goal and it's shared. And it comes with this intention and moving from just doing a job to living or working in alignment, feeling part of the vision, the process and that you, I guess you, matter in the work you do and in the company. So, with that in mind and with that vision you have, would you like to talk more about Vanto?
Speaker 1:Absolutely yes, so I'd be glad to introduce our work. So Vant Group is a boutique global consulting firm founded in the US 30 years ago. Our focus isn't on crafting strategies. It's on executing them and delivering results. Achieve breakthrough business outcomes by transforming the behavior of people and teams. What we value most is enabling people to feel that their interests and passions are being expressed through their work, but in reality, many people feel they are just going through the motion, working out of obligation or compliance. We believe that if each employee can find alignment between what they truly want to do and where the company is headed, their work will naturally become more energized, and that energy will drive organizational success. Organizational success why? Because that overlap becomes a source of Ikigai for the individual simultaneously holds growth for the organization. At Bant Group, we are 100% committed to unlocking the human potential. We support companies in building workplaces where people can be themselves, in building workplaces where people can be themselves, work vibrantly and truly experience Ikigai in what they do.
Speaker 2:How long have you been working for Vanto Group?
Speaker 1:So seven years past. So right now, yeah, beginning of eight years.
Speaker 2:I think the founders in business is the founders Steve Zafron, Is he well?
Speaker 1:known, I think so, but in the US yes.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I know he's internationally respected leadership authority. He's also an author. I guess he's quite strategic, and he's led large and mid-sized organizations worldwide for more than 25 years. I have a few notes here, so I know the Vanto Group's about increasing performance along with employee well-being. This idea of Yadigai is this organizational performance to increase sales and profit, engagement and then quality of work life. So, yeah, do you want to touch on Vanto's methodology in more detail?
Speaker 1:Yes. So our methodology is outlined in detail in the book the three laws of performance. So, to put it simply, it's an approach that dives into the core question why do people take action? So we've seen countless situations where people have the knowledge and motivation, but still don't take action. So we've seen countless situations where people have the knowledge and motivation but still don't take action. That led us to focus on one key factor how a situation occurs to a person. I'll give you an example Right now. You know, take the current exchange rate of 145, maybe 147, 8 yen to the dollar. So for Japanese, you know, it occurs as a crisis for one person, while it occurs as an opportunity for another. This occurrence how things appear, show up to someone is what ultimately shapes their behavior. So if the current crisis transforms to opportunity for someone, his or her action naturally shifts. It's a simple yet deeply fundamental principle, and our work at Bantuk Group applies this to organizational transformation and performance breakthrough.
Speaker 2:I see. So it's really about how we see or interpret or understand a situation. If we can shift perspective, we find opportunity. So what are some common barriers that prevent people from finding or living their ikigai at work, and how can these be overcome at an organizational level?
Speaker 1:I believe the biggest barrier is the deeply ingrained, often unconscious, assumption that work is something you just endure or something you do out of necessity to make a living. When this mindset takes root, people tend to close off their own potential and accept a sense of obligation as the norm. On the organizational side, when companies focus too narrowly on short-term results as long as the numbers are good, it's fine they often leave no space for employees to find meaning or fulfillment in their work. So one helpful metaphor is the well-known Aesop's proverb about the three bricklayers. You probably heard it Three men are laying bricks and when asked what they are doing, the first say oh, I'm laying bricks. The second said I'm building a wall for living. The third said I'm building a cathedral.
Speaker 1:That third bricklayer is the one who envisions a large future and is inspired by it. When people are connected to such a vision, they work with energy, clarity and purpose. On the individual level, the key is whether someone can see and define that bigger future for themselves. At the organizational level, it's equally important for a company to engage in open dialogue about its purpose, why it exists, what contribution it's making to society, how employees can connect to that vision. That means clearly articulating a shared purpose in language and creating opportunities for employees to resonate with it, not just as a message from leadership, but as a conversation throughout the company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a fascinating idea the way we see things with the fable I'm just laying bricks, or I'm building a wall for a living that's my job or no, I'm building a cathedral and it's purely vision. And then, once you have the vision, you take the appropriate action. And so, yeah, this organizational level vision, where everyone's involved, there's a shared purpose, it resonates with everyone. Yeah, it would probably result in better results and better well-being and sense of purpose for everyone involved. So I think we're talking about not just vision, but we're also talking about workplace, like what's an ideal workplace? So, if you could design the ideal workplace where Ikigai is present at every level, from leadership to frontline staff, what would that look like?
Speaker 1:If we were to design a workplace where Ikigai lives and breathes at every level, the most important foundation would be that everyone feels a deep sense of purpose in what they do. Leaders, for example, shouldn't just talk about numbers. They should speak to the future, to values, and serve as catalysts who draw out human potential. Middle managers should act as vital bridge, listening to the voices on the ground and connecting meaning to execution, and frontline staff should be able to see clearly how the individual roles contribute to the organization's broader vision. What ties all this together is dialogue and the felt sense that I'm making a difference to someone. When work becomes not just a duty but a source of pride and joy, then the workplace naturally becomes a place where both people and results can grow sustainably, and results can grow sustainably.
Speaker 2:So are we touching on the concept of Ibasho, what I mentioned earlier?
Speaker 1:Yes, of course. In fact, I believe a workplace where Ikigai is present is, at its core, a workplace where people have Ibasho. Ibasho isn't just a physical seat or title, it's the psychological safety of feeling I belong here. When people feel their opinions are valued and their presence is accepted. That's when they are able to thrive. On the other hand, if they are only expected to deliver outcomes and come to feel like it wouldn't matter if I weren't here, there's no space for ikigai to take root. So we need both the wheel turning, not only ikigai meaning, but also ibasho safety. One without the other is incomplete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really believe ibasho. I mean it's similar to ikigai. It's a common Japanese word, but I think from the 70s it sort of became a psychological concept, source of academic study, research, and now it has this different meaning. I think it used to mean whereabouts just you know the whereabouts of someone, where is someone? But now it's this idea of a place to belong, a place of safety, a place of purpose. So I think it really fits well inside workplaces as a structure for well-being. And then ikigai, as you mentioned, brings in the meaning, brings in purpose, brings in, I guess, a sense of significance. Another concept I think is used in business, something I learned from think is used in business, something I learned from Globus, japan's biggest business school, was kokorozashi Is that something you talk about in business in Japan sometimes?
Speaker 1:In my opinion, kokorozashi is not like in the business sense. It's more about like a private or individual perspective.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's like a personal mission.
Speaker 1:That's my opinion, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's always inspiring. Japan has these really interesting words that articulate a field of psychology. So ikigai, meaning purpose, ibasho, sense of belonging. So we've talked a lot about work. Let's end with your personal Ikigai Kinsuke. What is that for you?
Speaker 1:Yes. So for me, my Ikigai of work is witnessing people discover their own potential and begin to live and work from that place. When I see someone shift from a life of obligation to one where they are living with authenticity and strength, I'm reminded why I do what I do. And in my personal life, my greatest ikigai is parenting. So I have a three-year-old son and I just adore him. Watching him grow and discover something new every day showed me what the joy of being alive truly looks like. Growing alongside him. That's my deepest ikigai right now can certainly relate to that.
Speaker 2:I remember when my son was three. Really beautiful age, they're so happy, joyful. Now my son's 21 and I still adore him yeah, of course our relationship's very different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's very intelligent, very creative. He's far more intelligent than me, which I'm really proud of. We kind of have a very playful banter, I think, as a way to communicate love. But he's also honest, authentic and, yeah, he often says dad, you know, there's no point in worrying, just get on and do the work or just focus. So sometimes he gives me really good advice. So I'm sure, yeah, you'll have this incredible journey with your son. Yeah, before you know it, he'll be an adult, so you can have many sources of Ikigai work, family, parenting and obviously for you, I imagine, exercising is still a source of Ikigai. Yeah, well, it was really good to meet you in person, kinsuke, and now it was great to have a chat with you about the work you do and how you bring Ikigai to the workplace in Japan, and I'm sure we will meet again when I visit Tokyo again, which will hopefully be in November, and we can have another. Maybe we can try and grab Ken.
Speaker 2:Ken Mogi and have another conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, today I hope.
Speaker 2:So thank you very much for your effort you put into all your answers. I know you put a lot of effort into preparing them and thank you for your time today.
Speaker 1:Thank you, nick. It's my pleasure to attend this podcast show and also very good for me to look what I do and what is Ikigai. You know what is Yarigai or this kind of thing. It's very precious time to recall or study or etc. So thank you very much for this opportunity. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. I appreciate it too, so that means a lot to me. So I'm glad I could create that opportunity for you. So thank you.