The Ikigai Podcast
The Ikigai Podcast
Japanese Wisdom for a More Meaningful Life with Saori Okada
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What if the words you use could change the way you breathe? We welcome author Saori Okada back to share the heart of her new book, Wisdom of Japan, a collection of 60 concise concepts designed to calm a rushed life and rekindle everyday meaning. Saori opens up about crafting short reflections that still feel true, and the painstaking process of pairing each idea with a ukiyo‑e print so the art deepens the lesson on the page.
We journey through kokoro—the Japanese view of mind, heart, and spirit as one—and how that unity reframes courage, intention, and integrity. From yutori (spaciousness) to the proverb isogaba maware (hurry slowly), we explore practical ways to escape the spin of constant busyness. Saori brings tenderness to setsunai, the ache of nostalgia that proves we have loved well, and shows how kachou fuugetsu—flower, bird, wind, moon—invites nature to become a daily mentor for perspective and creativity.
The conversation also traces wisdom from martial arts. Bushido’s yu (courage) and gi (righteousness) remind us that strength without ethics is empty, while ki (energy) threads through language and training alike—think genki as “foundational energy.” Principles like shin‑ki‑ryoku‑no‑ichi (harmonizing heart, energy, and strength) and judo’s flexibility over force offer a humane blueprint for leadership and personal growth. Along the way, we unpack shoshin (beginner’s mind) and shoganai (acceptance) as tools for resilience that don’t require hardening your heart.
If you’re craving a gentler pace with more clarity and depth, this conversation offers simple practices: a page each morning, a breath under the open sky, and a renewed respect for the space that makes meaning possible. Grab Wisdom of Japan at Waterstones, your favorite indie bookstore, or Amazon. If the episode resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review—what concept will you practice this week?
Welcome Back & Life Updates
SPEAKER_00On this episode of the Ikigai podcast, Saori Okada returns to talk about the wisdom of Japan, which is the title of her new book. In December 2021, Saori joined me on episode 35 to talk about what it means to speak Japanese. So can you believe it, Saudi? That was four years ago.
SPEAKER_01I cannot. Oh my goodness. Oh, time flies, but I'm so excited to see you again.
SPEAKER_00Likewise, it is good to see you. And it is wonderful to have you back on the podcast. And you've had a few significant life changes. So would you like to give us an update?
How The Book Came To Be
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure. Well, I am Mary Nell since we've talked, and I'm pregnant with my first child, and so she's coming early next year. And um yeah, I'm excited for this next chapter.
SPEAKER_00I think you'll be a very loving, caring, playful, wonderful mother. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the journey of motherhood. I wish you lots of joy and happiness along the way.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's so kind. Yes, I will try my best.
SPEAKER_00So we have connected to talk about and celebrate and promote your new book, Wisdom of Japan. How did this opportunity to write the book come about?
SPEAKER_01Yes, that's a great question. It came about actually from the publisher. So Michael Amara is the independent UK book publisher that reached out and you know the editor really actually wanted to produce something that was more introductory in nature. So it meant that you didn't have to be an expert in Japan, but it was really meant to be something that anyone could pick up and it could be um interesting to read. So, you know, we've actually included like 60 core concepts that are in various types of um, you know, Japanese culture. The idea is that these are timeless wisdom concepts that can empower you through your mind, your body, and your soul. So that's really how it came about.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I've been reading it and I know you're inviting the reader to reflect, and you're offering uh, I guess, these small moments of reconnection to oneself and others and to what matters. And I think we need that. We need to pause and reflect. And these 60 Japanese words and proverbs, I think really encouraged that. Was this book a challenge to write?
Writing Simply With Authenticity
Pairing Concepts With Ukiyo‑e Prints
SPEAKER_01Yes, it was. I think it was a challenge because the goal was really to, you know, make it simple enough so that anyone can understand it, but also make sure that it is authentic and it provides value. So um, if you go through the page, you'll see that there's actually not more than you know, 150 words for each concept. And so um, this was like a different type of challenge where um I had to really try to get down to the core of each concept and try to explain it in a way that resonates with people. But then I always wanted to make sure that it wasn't just, you know, re-read a concept. So um at the end, I've always tried to weave in some sort of action or some reflection moments. And um, I think that was a different type of exercise that I've never done before. I think that was really uh a meaningful challenge. Yeah, and I think the other thing I would say is that I you'll see that each concept has a corresponding like um ukioi print, like a Japanese traditional print. And um, I pick that for each concept. And um, that took actually so much more time than um the writing itself, I would say, because I I really wanted to make sure like the visual cues aligned with the concept and it resonated and it helped enhance the concept. Um, so I I hope people take some time to read the words, but also appreciate the pictures as well, because I feel like they they go hand in hand and hopefully enhance the concept.
SPEAKER_00I was actually gonna ask you that, and I might ask you that later. So that they're beautiful pictures, and they do, I think, highlight uh the message of each page. So well done. Yeah, it's not easy to write a book, and I I think you're right, it's it's far more challenging to write less and convey more when you have this restriction of so many words per page. But I think it's nice to have one of those books you can pick up and open up a page and read something and have this reflection, and these Japanese cultural concepts are so unique, and you seem to have this endless lexicon of words that are so inspiring. I learned a few new words which I'll I'll touch on. Oh, you did, really? Yeah, I want I wanted to read the introduction of your book. You write, in Japan, wisdom often lives quietly, tucked into daily rituals shared through age-old phrases or felt in the turning of seasons. These lessons aren't loud or grand, but gentle, balanced, and deeply human. So shall we share some of these proverbs and cultural concepts?
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So something I noticed quickly was that there were several proverbs that included the notion of shin, which can also be understood as kokoro. And and one of my favorite words, kokurozashi. So can you explain shin or kokoro and how significant the word and concept plays out in Japanese culture and in daily life?
Kokoro: Mind Heart Soul As One
SPEAKER_01Yes, no, I I love how you picked up on that. Um, and I I think kokoro is such a fascinating concept. So when I try to describe it, I always say that in Japan, when if we think about someone, we say they have a karada, and that's their physical body, and then we have their kokoro. And um their kokoro encompasses their mind, their heart, their soul, and it's really all of that, and it's not separated, which I think is really interesting, versus perhaps in the West, like we use words such as mind, we use such as heart. So they're very separate. And um, I think when we go back to the root cot, you know, root connection of what that means in kokoro is our mind and our soul and our heart are all interconnected and they all are one and the same. And so um, you know, the words that you mentioned, it shows how we really emphasize the idea of kokoro in Japanese culture. And um, for example, kokurozashi, which is you know, moving in your heart's direction. That's really the word for intention. And so I think that's all about moving with your heart. Um, it also extends beyond yourself. Ishin is about having that soul-to-soul connection. So it's not really about the mind, but it's when you have that really deep connection with someone. When we think about Japanese culture, a lot of the times it's not mind-driven per se, it's more like kokoro-driven, which encompasses the mind, of course, but there's that spiritual side, there's also the the heart connection that um I feel like sometimes we don't talk about enough.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love it. I love the word. It took me a while to sort of get it, and then when I explain it to people, I'll often say in the West we have this notion of you think with your mind, feel with your heart, and they're separate concepts. And then kokoro is more like they're in unison, and you you can't really think and feel without both working together. And when they do work together, that's when your spirit or soul seems to come alive. Um so that's also your your idea that we have a karada and we have a kokoro, that's that's also a really nice way to explain it. So I might steal that.
SPEAKER_02Feel free to, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Another one of my favorite words in the book, and a word I think will be a theme for me next year, and maybe it might be my um kakizomi, is yutori. Yes. I think everyone needs yutori in their life. So, do you want to explain what that is?
SPEAKER_01Yes, oh, such a great pick, Nick. Um, so yutori is this idea where you live with spaciousness. And um, I think this is especially important. And this is actually one of the concepts that I do really talk to my friends a lot about because I think in this day and age we all need yitori, but um, it's really almost the solution or the opposite of I feel like what we are doing right now, where we are constantly doing more, more and more. We are trying to cram things, we are constantly moving versus yitori, I think is more about do you have room in your life? And this is not just time, it's about your mental spaciousness, your physical spaciousness, your spiritual spaciousness. Um, and it when you have yitori, it's that feeling where you have room to breathe and reflect and grow. I think unfortunately, we really have to be intentional in today's life, or you will not have yitori just because of how much we are um given in terms of exposure, in terms of social media, or you know, all the distractions that we have today. And so um, you know, it's about being intentional with the spaciousness that we want to have in our day-to-day.
Yutori: Creating Spaciousness In Life
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree. We're I think we're overwhelmed, we're distracted. It's as if we're becoming addicted to distraction. And when we do have moments to pause, we still have this urge to pick up our phone because we're so used to doing that. And interestingly, the the psychometric tool, the Ikigai Nine Scale, has Kokoro, I think it's Kokoro no Yutorigaaru as one of their measures.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And that is the one most people score low on. Um so it's very relatable to Ikigai. Having Utory would obviously give you this sense of uh life's worth living when I have this spaciousness or I have the room to have peace of mind.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Nick, you mentioned like this is something that you are um thinking about for your 2026. I was just curious, like, um, you know, are there certain ways that you want to try to implement that, or can I ask like what um what why you want to make that your intention?
SPEAKER_00I'm quite ambitious and I I like to do things. I really realized that this year when I went to Japan in May, and I was writing, I was finishing off a book, and then I was there to promote a book, and I was there to find new activities for future Ikigai leadership retreats, and I was miserable. I was stuck in a hotel trying to finish off this book, I was all over the place, and then I I felt oh I'm I'm doing everything half-heartedly, um, like Chuta Humper. And I yeah, I actually felt quite lonely and almost depressed, like, oh, why do I do this to myself? I realize ambition has this sort of double-edged sword. You know, it's exciting, you grow, you learn, you create all these opportunities, but then of course there's the work. And if you if you're too ambitious, you end up doing nothing well. And you're I I found myself constantly stressed. And then interestingly, last month I I went to Japan just to be a participant for a leadership Japan experience with uh Katie Anderson, who's been a guest on this podcast, and that was great. I didn't have to, you know, plan anything, worry about anything, and I cleared my schedule, I didn't have to take any calls. So I had a a really good taste of not having UTory and having UTory, and I thought, uh, I really need to have more U-Tory. Um and obviously other areas. Um there's you know, financial, I guess I wanted to move to Japan to live again, so there's that that goal and need a certain amount of money. Um so I think you yeah, you mentioned UTory is it's not just a mental construct or idea, it's it's also financial relationship, Utory having enough space in your relationships, even um physically, yeah, you can have this sense of space. You strike me as someone who has a lot of UTory. Is that true?
SPEAKER_01Maybe I'm just covering up. Well, no, I'm kidding. Um no, I mean, I mean, first off, thank you so much for sharing your story. And I mean, I will say too, where, you know, I think um I can fall into those um cycles with myself. You know, I always say that like I'm never perfect. And when I'm writing these concepts, I always feel like they're just as insightful to me as as I'm writing them. I can absolutely agree with you in the fact that when you're writing a book and um you're doing everything that is tied to it, sometimes you feel like you don't have that spaciousness because you have certain deadlines that you want to meet and you want to make sure that it's reflective of, you know, the your the best work that you could write. So um I will absolutely say that that I felt that for myself as well. But um actually something that I've been doing since um this book has come out is I do flip a page in the morning to a certain concept um and I reflect on it myself. For me, I always say that this is like a continuous journey myself. And I think that is part of having that discipline. Um, because if I'm not careful, I know that I will fall back into this um non-itori life. Because it's interesting. I found that sometimes when I um try to do more, and that's actually a concept in the book, like Isogaba Mago Mawade, which is you know, yes.
SPEAKER_00That was my next question, actually. Yes.
SPEAKER_01If you know, if you that means like, you know, if the more you try to hurry things, it's actually just not gonna work out. And I think that's something that probably I you know I've done many times. And what I found is when I try to create ytori, um things will actually come into place more naturally. That's not just in projects, but that can be just with relationships as well. When you give it the space to breathe, to you know, nurture it in a way that's not rushed. I found that it actually is so much more beneficial to both of us than trying to force something when it's not going to help anyone.
SPEAKER_00Well, that is interesting because I did notice that you and I beg I'm assuming this was intentional. After you taught it, you do have that proverb, isogaba maware. Do you want to break it down for our listeners?
Hurry Slowly: Isogaba Maware
SPEAKER_01Yes, so isogaba means like if you rush, and then maware is like when you it means you'll turn in circles. Even like the photo that you pro that's on the concept is really with the wind blowing and someone trying to rush through things. And that was really like the visual that I I had in mind. I feel like when you're trying to do something, it's it's actually just more, it's not gonna help you in any way. It's this idea that it's like, well, in that state, let's actually take a step back. Um, what if we didn't move? Say you're going running through a storm and everything is moving really fast. If you're moving fast, it's actually going to accelerate yourself, right? But you're going to be pushed more by the wind. Um, say if you actually took some time to stay still underneath something, you're actually going to have that stillness, and that's actually going to be helpful for you. Hopefully that visual um enhances the concept. But um, I do think it's important. And I don't I don't think that's the natural instinct. You know, I think sometimes if you think you're like thinking that you have to do something, you're like, okay, I have to do it faster, I have to do it faster. That's probably a very natural feeling that we get. But it's more like, okay, what if we actually just stood still and took some time to breathe? Like, you know, then we could actually probably take a moment to figure out what it is that we really want to do or what's going to help us.
SPEAKER_00You know, you you write this, it leads to repeated mistakes and unexpected setbacks and wasted time. It reminds me of the word chant or sort of like when we slow down to do things properly, and then we complete them, we have the satisfaction that oh, I've done it properly, I can move on. But when you're rushing about, you do things half-ass, you make mistakes, you get even more angry, and eventually you you have to stop. Yeah, anyway. So you must all stop and pause before you create all this madness, uh, before you're running around in circles. Yeah. That was new to me, so I like that one. Oh, I'm glad. The book is full of these amazing words and proverbs. Another one that I was so happy to see, and I had forgotten this word, and it is so unique, is Setsunai. Ah, yes. I love this word, and it's it kind of reminds me of Natsukashi, this this idea of nostalgia, but even setsunai has this subtlety to it. Um, so do you want to explain Setsuna?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Oh, this is such a unique word that I'm so glad I was able to include because I feel like it really does explain this feeling. But it's it's basically like when your heart tugs with bitter sweetness. And it's it's you know, that ache of nostalgia. So that there is that element of, you know, natshi, like you mentioned, but it's almost there is this, you know, combination of joy and sadness when we cherish a memory because it gently slips away. I always feel like rather than resisting this feeling, you know, sometimes people try to resist feelings of sadness. It's actually, if we could genuinely feel this, those feelings of sitzenai, it actually helps us understand that we have lived so deeply. So I always think it's not about trying to push those away, but can we hold those moments really true to our hearts? Because um, you know, I think uh sitzenai is like the most beautiful feeling that we could have in a way, because it means that it mattered to us, you know, that moment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I gotta say the first line, Sitsanai is the ache of nostalgia, the pull of the past, transient moment that touches your heart. It's like, ah, you encapsulated it so well just in the first sentence, especially the first six words. Sitsanai is the ache of nostalgia. So it is a beautiful word, and I think it's good to go there more often.
Setsunai And The Ache Of Nostalgia
SPEAKER_01Yes, I agree. Um I was just thinking that like sometimes with my husband, we go for a walk in the morning, and um his he used to always say like his grandma loved like red robin. So whenever we see a red robin, um we like we think of her, we say it out loud. Sometimes it could be those moments that are bittersweet, but um in a way I always feel like that's how we remember certain people, we remember what they meant to us. Um, and it's It's a great way to, you know, give life purpose because sometimes I think we're very surface level, and um it is easier sometimes to ignore those feelings of Sitsanai because it's not necessarily a happy or easy emotion per se. But um I think there is that element that is, I think, part of you know Japanese culture or different words that can remind us that um it's not a bad feeling to feel that sense of Sitsunai.
SPEAKER_00The ache of nostalgia or heart tugging. You you mentioned that. So reflect on what moments in your life hold the heart tugging weight of titsunai. And speaking of uh birds, uh you have several words and proverbs that uh talk about nature. And one is katsho fu getsu.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00I knew this word, so I want to sort of ah, great choice. And this has significance because of the the kanji characters used in the word. So do you want to touch on that one?
Kachou Fuugetsu And Moon Words
SPEAKER_01Yes, of course. So this one is really about letting nature inspire you. And if you look at Kul Fu Getsu, so like the first character is like flower, the second one is bird, fu is for wind, and then getsu is like for moon. And so um it's really about um having nature is both an experience and an expression, and um, it's really about letting nature invite you um to shape your perspective, but also creativity. And I think that's actually really beautiful because um, you know, I believe like nature is the most beautiful gift in the world, and um it can inspire so much of our creativity. And um, back to this idea of kokoro, you know, I think creativity actually is really coming from our heart, our kokoro. Nature is what touches us. I always think that it's a really great word that encapsulates many of the elements of nature. You know, you have your flowers, you have the beautiful birds, you have the wind that you feel, and the beauty of the moon. Um, to me, it gives such a beautiful like visual. When you read these words, you're like, oh my gosh, like I just want to be of nature.
SPEAKER_00That's it's I mean, it's beautiful, but it's so cool. When I I remember when I first saw it and I worked out, oh, the kanji. And it's oh, this is um uh a Yojijukor, this is like a four kanji character word, and it's just it's not the same, it wouldn't be the same as writing out flower, bird, wind, moon in English. There's this beauty to the the obviously to the kanji characters, but whoever thought of this and wrote it, just brilliant because it does convey all these different elements and the beauty of nature, and maybe in the Western world, like we we wouldn't maybe consider the moon to be a significant part of nature, but you seem to in Japan you even have um you even have moon bathing and you have haiku related to the moon. So I love how nature extends to the moon.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Oh, that's uh actually that's such a fascinating point because um I was looking into the moon for like my my next book actually, more and um I was realizing the differences like you mentioned where it in Japan there's there's over there's hundreds of words actually that are used for certain um words about the moon. Um, you know, it's not just a full moon, even like there's basically like five, six different ways to say full moon. There's also an a word for like the 16th moon, the 17th moon, and it's actually very fascinating. For example, in Japan, like rather than the full moon, like the day after the full moon is is considered more beautiful because it's not perfect. Um, a lot of people like this idea that you know it's missing a little bit of something, and yet it's so beautiful. And um, I do think that there is this celebration of of moon viewing that I guess perhaps you're right, right. I I guess in in Australia, for example, like are there are there words or like days where you celebrate the moon?
SPEAKER_00Not really. Only if we hear all the news. It might be a full moon or the moon's at its closest to the earth, and you'll you'll get this striking image of the moon that does look significantly closer or an eclipse, but we don't well there it's nursery rhymes like the man on the moon is about the only thing that comes to mind. So we certainly don't tie it to um yeah. I mean, Japan has this the subtlety to observing things, and this is obviously why you have all these different words just for moon. And it's like, why is that? Why does your culture you know, why has your culture had this presence to notice something that's quite subtle, and then a word becomes evolves out of it, someone obviously coins a word to describe it, and that gets used so much it's like a common word. The learning of Japanese words never ends. If you write this book about the moon, I can learn all these new words, so it's it's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Um, I'm learning every day myself, you know. It's even if you're Japanese, I feel like you're continuously surprised at you know different elements.
Reclaiming Culture Abroad
SPEAKER_00Well, that's an interesting experience because I have found the people who live outside of Japan begin to understand the incredible beauty and the incredible subtlety and the the depth and breadth of their culture because either you probably get asked a lot about it when people find out, oh, you're from Japan, they ask you all these questions, but also you you see this contrast of cultures and you discover, oh, this isn't talked about in the UK or this isn't practiced in the UK. Did you have that experience where you realized slowly or were there significant moments where you realized, oh, my culture is very unique and special?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I think when I was younger, I think I mentioned this when I first like four years ago when my first came on. But you know, I think it was about like um when I was in my 20s or in my teens, I ran away from my culture a lot. I thought that um I wanted to be more American, maybe, or um I wanted to be not Japanese. Um I think I tried a lot to push away my own culture, unfortunately. And then when I moved to New York and started a corporate job, I started to feel a sense of disconnect within myself where I felt like I wasn't really connecting with my my roots in a way. And so um that really started more of a journey for myself, really, about like trying to figure out what's important to me. Um, you know, what is Japanese culture and what are the things that I grew up with that perhaps I was unfortunately not listening to my mom or my dad about certain things. Um, and then I think from there that was really where um, yeah, I always say I have a New Yorker's mind and Japanese soul, and like I try to use that as a way to try to potentially like understand maybe oh, there are certain aspects of Japan that maybe are very different or it needs an explanation, or maybe people don't understand the nuances of it. Uh, and maybe I could provide some sort of um authentic definition or you know, some sort of uh meaning behind all these words. And so um I think that's really where this journey has started. And I think it continues to happen every day when even in in the UK, I've I found that you know there's a lot of interest in Japan at the moment where maybe Nick, you see a tour, there's a lot of people traveling to Japan, which is which is great. I think it's about trying to convey certain concepts authentically make sure that it rings true.
Shoshin And Continuous Discipline
SPEAKER_00Well, I think you do that really well, and I have a bit of a well it's not a confession. I think I shared this with you. But when I wrote my book, my first book, Ikigai Khan from our conversation, you said you you spoke about your father and you asked your dad, oh what's what's self-actualization like in in Japanese for you? And he said it was uh jibunashi, like just uh wanting to be yourself. And I wrote about that in my book, like um in in Japan, they just uh talk about jibunashi, and in in the West we we talk things up and we want to say, oh, I want to achieve this and do this and you know be the best version of myself and all that sort of thing. And I I was really uh grateful and happy you reminded me of that expression because it's such a a cool idea. Self-actualization should be obviously about the self, being your unique self and expressing that rather than trying to be this elusive best version of yourself that you can never really be. So I love that about Japan. There's no word for the best version of yourself, and Japanese don't talk things up and announce things and tell the world how they're gonna change their life or change um the world next year, it's sort of very humble and quiet. I'm officially thanking you on this episode.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, no, thank you so much for sharing that. I I'm so glad to hear it. And and you're right, where I do think that um, I mean, I think there's also in Japan there's this idea that when you become too potentially like overconfident in yourself, or you know, that's where actually troubles arise. And um I do think there is that continuous element of, you know, even in in the book I talk about, I was looking through more of like what are the martial arts, you know, what do they talk about, you know, in terms of continuous discipline. And it's never about once you reached a goal, you're done. You know, that's actually very much the opposite. I feel like they always say, like, once you think that, then um, you need to go straight back down to the bottom and start over because you're absolutely not getting this idea of continuous learning, which again is like beginner's mindset, is is Shoshine. You know, it actually tells us that when you become more of a master, you are more susceptible to the idea that you have finished, that you are good, that you have this best version. And um, it's actually more of a cautionary you know, reminder that we have to keep this in mind as we become better.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that one. Yeah, Shoshin. And does that also include the idea of having the same um kind of curiosity and excitement you you first had when you were learning something, and you try to go back to that as well?
SPEAKER_01Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah. Because it's true, where I feel like the more you do it, of course, you you probably may not get as excited because, say, you've done something for 30 years, you know the process. Um, but it's also, again, I think it does come back to this shing. Is shoshing is also with your kokoro. And um, it's not mind-driven, it's more this idea that you the feelings that you get when you started something new, you know, it's fun, it's exciting, it's different. You have this sense of joy, and um, it's also about that feeling that we don't want to forget as well.
SPEAKER_00I love it. So we could talk about hundreds of words, but I did make a note of a few words inspired by Bushido. I guess the Ware of the Warrior. And two were you and Gee. So, do you want to touch on those and like why did you choose those two words?
Bushido Virtues: Yu And Gi
SPEAKER_01Yes, so you is the Bushido virtue of courage, and and um I like this word because sometimes we think of courage as you know, outward bravery. You know, I think like when some people think of the samurai, they're like, oh yeah, they're strong, they could, you know, fight very like, you know, intelligently with courage. But I think the deeper meaning behind that was about how it's about not just that external fear that you have, but facing what scares you internally. Um, and to me, this is very important because I think true, genuine courage is is not about just being reckless and having aggression outwardly, but it's it's having that inner courage to face your your inner demons per se. And then um I think that's what's really important in in today's world because I I don't think it's a scary thing to do 100% to to face that inner um what scares you. But um I think that was a really important to me to include in the book because it reminds us that the samurai, a true samurai or b shidol, is like about facing both.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're afraid to face our own fears and face the inner demon. And when we can't do that, we we seem to resort to external violence, which obviously is not courage at all. Um then you mentioned ghee.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So ghee is about righteousness and um it's really about having justice and and fairness. And um, it is considered you know the most essential virtue of the samurai. And for me, I think it's about that deep sense of integrity that we have. I think it's important because sometimes when you think of the samurai, you could just think that they're just like strong warriors, but they actually are much more than that, that the virtues that are instilled is really rooted in integrity and making sure that we don't act in short-term gain for ourselves. Um, but it's rooted in this deeper sense of integrity. Um, and I think that's really important in today's world because we have to remind ourselves that it's not just us that we're thinking about. We have to make certain actions that are beyond just short-term profit and loss. And it's about really about the long-term sense of integrity. And so um I wanted to include that as well because I thought that um this is could be a really good reminder for people.
SPEAKER_00I think so. I'm beginning to believe this moral code of the samurai is the example we should follow for a modern leadership or just a personal moral code. You and Guy, they're not just like courage and righteousness. There's more to them. And this this is, I guess this is part of the joy of it really diving deep into Japanese words rather than just taking these superficial translations. So I need more time to learn these words, but then this is could this could be my U-Tordy problem. Where I'm thinking, yeah, I'm gonna learn more words. Um it could be also a case of energy, you know, need more energy to learn more words, which you talk about. So you you have a few words using the character ki, which is energy, so genki ki I. And then I guess this would be a proverb, which is Shinki ryokunoichi. Is that right? Shinki ryokunoichi, yes. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, do you want to talk about ki and then touch on the proverb?
Ki: Energy In Language And Arts
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. So ki is, you know, this Japanese word for energy. I think it's actually so interesting to see how often like ki is used in Japanese words. So um, you mentioned the first one, like genki. That's the word for, you know, how are you when we say how are you? But you know, the the characters is, you know, the first one is moto, which is your foundation, and then ki is energy. So we're actually asking, you know, oh, how is your energy? How's your foundational energy? You know, I will say Japanese people are not thinking that when we're saying that.
SPEAKER_00That would be funny if I did.
SPEAKER_01That would be funny. But I also I think it's so fascinating that this is the word for how are you, you know, in a way that to me, I'm like, oh, back when we were thinking about, you know, how we're talking. It's just so deeply ingrained in in the conversations that we have. So um I think it is really like a good example of of how ki is used. And then the program that you're talking about, Shinkirokuno Ichi. Um, it's really about when you have this connection between the unity of the heart, the energy, and strength. And this is from kendo, which is the Japanese martial art of swordsmanship. This is really when we learn to harmonize our and our ki, so our energy, and our chikara, which is our strength. So um, you know, it's this idea that when we're able to have that harmony and alignment, that's when we can actually have our strength strongest strength and really put down that sword with the greatest alignment. This is really one of the principles in in Kindle, but um, it also goes beyond martial arts and it says that when you want to really align yourself, it's really about keeping all of those elements in mind to really reach your full potential.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, energy and power coming together yet balanced. It's fascinating. This actually reminds me of another one from judo. I think it's uh Shingi Tai. Shin is obviously heart, uh, Gi is wisdom, Tai is body, and karakada, and it's like these are the three, I guess the three foundational elements of um judo as a martial art. And actually, for my my brand and my hunk or for my business, which I did not design, Japanese person designed it, and he used Shingitai, and then added you, like friendship, to that, and that became my brand, like the the brand values or my Ikigai tribe values. So wow, yeah, you know, your your kokorole using your kokorol, having this this wisdom, I guess karada would mean probably more more like health, and then this idea of friendship. So, yeah, these are so inspiring, these proverbs. And they can kind of change your life. Some of these words have changed my life.
SPEAKER_01So no, me too. Yes, and I I love that. I I think sometimes we think like more like it's just a sport, you know, for example, like. Judo, you know, like what can it teach us? But there's actually so much wisdom within that. You know, I think even the one that I put for judo in the book is like joko se su which means like flexibility conquers strength. And this is such a great, you know, lesson, not just in judo, but I feel like in in life, you know, I always say that like I try to be like a bamboo. That's like meaning they're strong, but they're also very flexible. And I think that's also a really important concept in in life that we could take because sometimes we think that pure strength is going to get us there, but a lot of times it's more about adaptability and and our ability to be flexible.
Flexibility Over Force In Judo
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I guess that's the beauty of judo. I mean, it's often translated as the gentle way, uh, which seems like a contradiction to a martial art. Like shouldn't it be the stronger way or something? So this is the yeah, the really beautiful and deep wisdom from Japanese words and culture. Obviously, I was very happy to see Ikigai in your book. So I'm glad you didn't miss that one. Uh but what is your favorite word or proverb from the book?
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness, you are asking me to choose my favorite child almost. Uh I'm trying to think. Well, there's so many, and of course I had to include Ikiga, even though I it's it's hard to do it justice in 150 words, to be honest. But um, you know, I do think, let's see, I'm trying to think. Um something that I did like was this idea of, you know, ku, which is um, you know, the word for I put I wrote it as space like the open sky because it's actually the character for soda as well. Um and there's so much words that I all of them I love, but I feel like when I think about myself, what I try to do every day is I always try to look at the sky and take a deep breath in the morning. And for me, this is the best way to have that sense of emptiness. Um, because when we have that sense of emptiness, to me, I I think the sky is the most beautiful thing in the world. And so when I look up at the sky, I get this sense of peace and emptiness. And I could feel it almost like coming to me as well. And so um, I think it always um reminds me that we need this openness because when we have that sense, we could be um so much better as individuals. And I could also see the connection between nature. Um, and it's really it, I think it encompasses so much of what I hope people feel when they read this book is to have that sense of space.
SPEAKER_00It is quite beautiful to go outside and look at the sky. It is very calming when you can do that, and you're not you're not listening to music, you just go outside and look at the sky and the the clouds or the blueness and something so common, so every day can be so yeah, beautiful if we're present to to notice and feel it. So was it was it hard choosing 60? It must have been really hard choosing 60.
Choosing Sixty Concepts
SPEAKER_01It was hard, yes. It was really hard to try to. That was probably the first step I took, you know, was just writing down certain words that I liked. And and um I also wanted to make sure that it was accessible, so it's including some well-known ones, you know, like wabisabi ikigai, of course. But then I also wanted to make it, you know, things that people haven't heard of. So um it was about really diving into more of the martial arts and then the traditional arts of Japan. And then I also wanted to make sure it was about everyday aspects as well. So I tried my best to um honestly, I was just trying to pay attention to what I said when I was talking to my friends or, you know, talking to my parents. You know, what are some words that I we always say and we don't really think about because um they're actually so much more. Um, because one of them I another one I really like is Shoganae. Um and um I always I wanted to include this word because I think it is often mistranslated as it can't be helped. Um, and it's just this idea that we give up, you know, but it's it's actually so much more than that. It's it's about accepting that there's certain things that um, you know, are outside of our control. So it actually is this sense of acceptance that could give us a sense of freedom. And Japanese people, I say this all the time to my friends or to my family, sometimes to cheer them up or just to help, you know, convey the fact that, you know, it's it's out of side of control, but let's move on. Um, so it was really important to me to include things that, you know, if you read some of them, I feel like if you go to Japan, you'll probably hear that people saying it.
Shoganai And Acceptance
SPEAKER_00Well, that one's interesting because I remember when I was first interested in Japanese and I started making friends in Melbourne, and I'd I'd often be asked like something would happen, we've got a picnic plan and it rains, and we can't go, so we have to change our plans. And yeah, my Japanese friends would go, oh shogunai. And they'll ask me, Oh Nick, what's shogunai in English? I think what you said, like um can't be helped, or there's no way, and doesn't really sound natural. So and then later I realized, oh, it's more expressing yeah, this uh comfort with acceptance, or um but there are so many words that include uh this is the I guess the challenge often is there are so many words that convey acceptance or this this idea of space, like um ku, ma, yutori, yo, uh different contexts and subtleties, but we don't seem to have yeah, this sort of lexicon of words, even for one concept of space. Um so that's a challenge for me as a learner, getting the subtleties of oh, what's the difference between Yutori and Yo-Yu? Like uh I'd find that pretty hard to explain. So, yeah, would would you find that hard to explain? Something like those two like they seem like really close. Where where Mark would be, it seems Mark seems more cultural and philosophical, and it's it's like everywhere in Japan. Um practical. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, they're all you know, in a way they're actually so difficult because they're like just so different that it's it's like the subtleties are almost too like difficult to describe because it's like there's no words to translate that. Um, but I almost feel yeah, so it's just like a never-ending challenge. But when I think of, I think Yoyu is a I mean, it is similar to Yo-Yu is the word to having that sense of space. Um, but yutori, I feel like actually encompasses more of the heart element as well. And it's a little bit more like um, it's not just moment to moment, I would say. It's more about like the life that you have. You feel that sense of yutori versus yo-yu could just be in those specific moments that you have, and it's not necessarily as deep, I would say, in terms of having that element of you know, your spiritual spaciousness, for example, that would not apply to yo-yu as you would with yitori.
SPEAKER_00You have a yeah, so yo-yu's like you have I have enough space or time or whatever in this moment. Um so this is the joy of learning and talking about these words. But as you mentioned, the book also has beautiful picture cards that do look like Ukio. So Ukyo meaning pictures of the floating world, is that's how they're translated.
SPEAKER_01Well, that is how they translate it, yes. And I think that's a beautiful visual. Um, it it I think it refers also to like a specific type of of print that was done during the certain time of Japan. Um, so but I think that that's a beautiful translation. So I think we could use that one of the floating world.
Nuances Of Space: Yutori vs Yoyu
SPEAKER_00So there those uh wood block art prints. Uh so I imagine that was a challenge that would have added a complexity of like, oh what can I find a picture for this word? And does it yeah, does it uh match and sort of articulate the essence of the word? And you did mention it took you longer to find the appropriate image for the word, but it's beautiful, it's visually stunning. So people, I think, will also enjoy just looking at um these full pages that do look like, although they are traditional wood block art prints in the book itself.
SPEAKER_01Uh oh, I'm so glad to hear that. You're right, it is it is really hard. And um, I mean, there's thousands of um photos and and potential options that um we could have had. And so um, you know, I almost felt like I was diving into like an art history class, um, you know, studying myself. And so I feel like I learned a lot during this process. Um, because you know, I would look at certain artists and then, you know, I would read into their history and you know, what kind of you know, symbolisms they had, and you know, and it's also just um it was really interesting for me too, because there's actually so many historical figures that people write, but they also represent certain things. And so, like you want to make sure that those align with the concepts as well. And uh so yes, I felt like it probably took me a little bit more, yeah, maybe just as much as writing or a little bit more. But um, no, I I'm so grateful because I have been hearing people appreciate the art form and it does help. So I'm like, oh, that's I'm so glad to hear that because uh yeah, I think it does add to it now. When now that I look at it after it's been some time.
SPEAKER_00Well, there you go, and that gives some insight into how much effort and work goes into the book because there's all these words or options or things you ended up not doing, not putting in the book that you probably still wrote. I'm sure you wrote more than 60 words, and you you you're working with an editor, and and you know, maybe there are decisions being made, and yeah, so there's all this unseen or unread work in a book uh as well. So it is a very challenging project. It it takes a lot of time, but you've obviously done this with a lot of with a lot of love and care. So congratulations. And I I think it makes for a wonderful uh Christmas book. So it could be a great book for our listeners to buy as a gift to themselves or to to someone interested in Japan or just someone interested in wanting to yeah, slow down and have these cues to pause and reflect on all these beautiful aspects of life. So, where where can people buy the book, Saudi?
Curating The Art: Process & Care
SPEAKER_01Yes, so if you're based in the UK, you could find it at Waterstones as well as a lot of independent bookstores. Um, but if you are international, it is on Amazon as well. So you could order your copy. Um and yes, I I'm so glad you couldn't have said it better than myself, Nick. So thank you for um wrapping that up so nicely. Um my goal was really, it's not really a book for to like rush through it. I wouldn't recommend like reading everything in one go. It's more about flipping to a certain page and then taking your time and sitting with it. And um I think that's the best way for us for you to enjoy the book.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it could be a good book to encourage you, Tory, and maybe you you read one page and you look at the print and maybe do that with your morning beverage and reflect and take it really slow.
SPEAKER_01Yes, love that idea.
SPEAKER_00So before we wrap up, any other news, any plans? Is there another book? I think you you've been mentioning there is this other book. Do you want to touch on that?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I am writing another book that's coming out next year. Um, yes, I don't know. I can I feel like I could share more information next year. I just know it's coming out. I did just submit the manuscript. Um, but it's gonna be very different. I think it's gonna be a little bit more expansive and um in the concept, but it's this idea that we want to um learn how to accept and celebrate being ourselves um versus comparing ourselves to others. Um, but I'm excited about that. But yes, I will say, yes, like I mentioned, I am pregnant right now. So I think the first half of the year might be a little bit slower for me, but I am going to practice what I preach and enjoy this moment. Um, I mean, I don't think it'll be slower. I think I'll be lack of sleep, but I think I'll be in a fun phase that's a little bit different from when I was doing this year.
SPEAKER_00No, you'll you'll love it. So yeah, I wish you lots of love and success. And uh we should not wait four years for our next conversation.
SPEAKER_01Yes, please. No, we have to do it sooner.
SPEAKER_00So thank you for joining me. And the book is Wisdom of Japan by Saudi Okada. And yeah, I recommend you buy the book and enjoy reading it and looking at the wonderful floating pictures. Yeah, I can't say this word. Thank you so much for joining me today, Saudi. Thank you for having me.