The Ikigai Podcast
The Ikigai Podcast
Expanding Your Inner Capacity: The Utsuwa Philosophy with Shigeki Nishimura
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What if the key to better work and wiser leadership isn’t adding more tools but building a bigger vessel? Shigeki Nishimura—author, cross-cultural leadership coach, and former global executive—joins us to introduce Utsuwa, the Japanese concept of inner capacity. Drawing on two decades in Germany and a career bridging Japanese precision with European efficiency, Shigeki shows how a clay tea bowl can rewire your approach to stress, focus, and team culture.
We dive into a powerful triad: ikigai as the engine (purpose), kintsugi as the mechanic (repair), and Utsuwa as the chassis (capacity). Instead of sprinting toward bigger goals with a fragile frame, he explains how to grow stability, increase margin, and keep a low center of gravity—so you can hold success without arrogance and failure without shattering. The result is spacious leadership: decisive when needed, humble by default, and relentlessly human. Expect concrete practices, from tidy-desk resets and shorter meetings to one-on-ones that create trust and autonomy. You’ll hear how emptiness—yohaku—is not a void to fear, but the space where insight lands and innovation begins.
Shigeki shares a four-question diagnostic to test your capacity, plus three habits to expand it: accept your cracks, lower your center, and practice the void. We also connect these ideas to modern overload—constant notifications, social feeds, and AI—and map out how to remove noise so your best thinking can surface. If you’ve ever felt like you’re pouring an ocean of complexity into a teacup, this conversation offers a sturdier bowl and a calmer hand.
If the ideas resonate, follow the show, share this episode with a friend, and leave a quick review—what will you remove this week to make room for meaning?
From Ikigai To Utsuwa
SPEAKER_00So for me, Ikigai is like a engine, main engine. It's a source of demotivation, source of driving yourself. And then kintsugi is like a mechanic. It is used when the utsuba is once broken, but it's repaired with some uh gold and then attached to the broken part. And then Utsuba is like the frame or shachi's. It's their main part of the automotive.
Shigeki’s Germany Years
SPEAKER_01My guest today is Shigeki Nishimura, an author and a global leadership thinker who has spent decades working at the intersection of Japanese precision and German efficiency. In January of 2026, Germany's leading weekly newspaper, featured his work with the headline Nishimura teaches his compatriots what they can learn from the Germans. Work less, achieve more. With over 30 years of experience in the semiconductor industry and more than a decade in automotive, he has led multicultural teams through high-pressure environments where quality, speed, and trust all mattered. He has worked closely with Japanese headquarters and European subsidiaries, helping bridge very different ways of thinking about work. After stepping away from the corporate world last summer, he now serves as a consultant specializing in cross-cultural leadership and organizational development. Today he travels the world sharing the concept of Utsuwa, teaching leaders how to expand their inner capacity. Welcome to the podcast, Shiger. Hi Nick, thanks for inviting me. It's my pleasure. We met in November last year along with Kiki, who was a guest on the previous episode of this podcast, and we all met in Okinawa. I experienced a taste of the digital nomad lifestyle. And I met you and I quickly discovered that you had been living in Germany for almost two decades and that you're an author, a best-selling one, in fact. So we might start with Germany. What moved you to live in Germany?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, actually, I was working for a Japanese company, and that company has European subsidiaries. I was working in the office as an engineer, sales, as well as marketer, and also the head of the office.
SPEAKER_01I see. And almost 20 years, so I think 18 years. So how was the lifestyle for you, and how is your German?
SPEAKER_00That's a good question. So my lifestyle in Germany is like uh not to live in the foreign country because I lived in Düsseldorf in Germany, where the many Japanese people, and also we have a big Japanese community. It was very convenient for me to live there. This is the first point. That's why, and also, of course, I was working there with a European customer, but not so many German customers. That's why my German was not so improved. So my German level is like a survival German level. I could survive somehow, but not fluent.
SPEAKER_01See. Well, your English is pretty good. So where did you learn English?
SPEAKER_00Oh, good question. Of course, most of all Japanese learn the English, at least from the junior high school. However, most of Japanese cannot speak English because uh we are put more importance on their grammar and writing and reading, uh not for speaking. That's why my English speaking level uh was uh improved since I was I started working. And at that time I was assigned for developing the product for European customers. That's why I had to speak English.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so did you speak English more often in Germany than German? Yeah, exactly. That's interesting. So now you're in Auckland and you seem to travel a bit. Are you still based in Germany or where are you based now, really?
Efficiency Habits And Kaizen
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's also a good question. Actually, I already left Germany uh because uh last summer I left the company and then now I'm independent. So I could live anywhere uh in the world for the moment because I'm currently working uh mainly online. It's like a digital nomad style. However, next month in March, I will go back to Japan and then I will then finally fix the place in Japan. So I will be based on the Japan in near future. And any idea where you will live in Japan? That's also the good question. Many people or many friends ask me. Yeah, most probably not in the city side, more in the countryside. So maybe Nick, you know, the the the Nagano Prefecture, the center of the main island. Yeah, that would be the one of the candidates.
SPEAKER_01Sounds good. I'll probably be close there when I go to Japan in May, so I might try and catch up with you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sounds good. Please contact me.
SPEAKER_01I will. Okay, so in addition to living in Germany for almost 20 years, you've sold quite a few books. Over a hundred thousand copies, in fact. So what do you write about?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, actually I love the two books. First book is about the uh working efficiency, and then second book is about leadership. My first book is to introduce uh efficient working style of Germans to Japan. Because from my experience to work in Germany, I learned a lot to work with the high productivity from my German colleagues. For example, they clean up the desk every evening before they go home. That actually leads to the the higher productivity because that avoids the uh wasting time to start something next morning or so. And such a small tips are written in my book.
SPEAKER_01And the book title is The Incredible German Way of Working. Yes. And so what language is that published in?
SPEAKER_00So far only in Japanese language. Uh however, translation version for Thailand, uh, Thailand language, and also the German is ongoing.
SPEAKER_01Thai. Wow. Any chance of it being published in English?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what I also would like to, but I'm currently waiting for the request from the uh any English book publisher. I see.
SPEAKER_01Well, I can relate to that habit or ritual of cleaning your desk. I I know when my desk gets messy, I I feel a little bit stressed. And I usually clean my desk before recording a podcast, so I feel grounded and clear. It almost sounds like a little bit of a Kaizen habit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So kaizen habit means there's no radical changes, but some small step improvement. So continuous improvement. Yeah, such kind of the fundamental way is the source or the importance of the German efficient way of working.
Rethinking Work And Overwork
SPEAKER_01What sounds good. Now, your current work involves publishing, lecturing, training with the aim of promoting true work style reform, perhaps influenced by your experience in Germany. So, what is true work style reform?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a good question. So, Japanese worker is, I think, famous for overwork. I mean, the word of Kalosi, Khalosi means you work too much and then you may come to the sudden death. And then in Japanese companies, even nowadays, a lot of people doing their overtime working. And yeah, of course, one reason is too much work for each people, each employees. But on the other hand, I see there's a lot of space to improve it. You know, the cleaning up the desk is one example. Uh, another example is the uh very, very long meeting time, and then so many meetings. I think there are uh lots of room for improvement or such things.
SPEAKER_01I think so. I think many people who have long meetings would agree with you. So at the heart of your philosophy related to work style reform and perhaps life in general, is the concept of utsuwa. So, what is an utsuwa?
What Utsuwa Really Means
SPEAKER_00Before I talked about utsuwa, let me talk about the uh basic concept of my introduction to my working style. So most of the Japanese people working is the center of the life. So working is called life kind of these things. But I want to change the such a uh mentality or such a lifestyle to the uh working whole life, means working is uh just part of the life. So that's why I need to change completely the working culture in Japan. And then in order to introduce the new concept to Japanese workers or employees, I introduced the metaphor of Utsua. Yeah, that's the uh one background. I see.
SPEAKER_01That's helpful. Actually, just before you explain Utsuwa, I had an interview with someone else who is Japanese and worked in the corporate world. And recently in Australia, we passed a law. Basically, it involved the right to disconnect for employees after work hours. So after work hours, employers legally can't demand that employees respond to emails after work hours. So we have this clear cutoff of work. We're not checking emails after work. And yes, my guest was quite surprised saying Don't you want to work after you've finished work, or don't Australians want to work after they've finished work? And I'm saying, well, no, not really. So yes, Japanese tend to overwork. And even he felt that his approach to work was fairly modern and involved, you know, having work and life balance. But he still felt it was reasonable to check emails after working hours. So I guess your work involves maybe that idea of having space or capacity. So, yeah, do you want to explain what utsua is?
SPEAKER_00Yes, uh Utsuwa literally means a besar, but uh beser is not like uh a factory-made besar, it's like uh homemade or uh craftsman made clay besar. Um Japan is famous for tea ceremony, and then the for the traditional tea ceremony, such a clay beser is used. Maybe you can imagine that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was I I shared with you earlier my father makes pottery, Shinoyaki pottery, traditional Japanese pottery, and he specialized in machajawa. And what is interesting is how in tea ceremony they use a bowl, a quite a large bowl rather than a small cup. And that's a fascinating aspect. It's like, oh, why is the vessel or container so large in tea ceremony when really you're only drinking three sips? So that's probably tied to the philosophy you're going to share with us.
SPEAKER_00Yes, uh that's exactly the point. Uh if you hold uh uh Utua, it's heavy, uh that means uh it's very stable. And then even if it's a large capacity, we don't fill up the T. There are always lots of spaces. Uh that is we say yohaku, that means a kind of margin or extra space. So as a metaphor, Utsua showed some kind of the margin or extra space would be also necessary for our life.
SPEAKER_01It is fascinating. Japanese have other concepts related to Yohaku, so I think the general idea of Ma and then uh Utori, and they all have this emphasis on room or space, which I think gives us comfort, freedom, and the capacity to be present.
SPEAKER_00Wow, we need to understand our Japanese culture more than most of Japanese culture.
Warmth, Craft, And Emotion
SPEAKER_01I lived in Japan for a while and I meet people like you, so uh I always learn a lot. Oh, actually, I'd like to quote you. So you describe it as the earthen vessel of the human soul. So would you like to expand on that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um compared to like uh let's imagine uh the sometimes steel steel better or made better. It's uh uh feel like a cord and not so uh we don't feel any emotion to that, but such a grey made besser, or it's up, it's kind of warm and we also feel kind of the emotion which is coming from the Kraftman made uh style of the uh the besser. That's the uh difference.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I think you you're right. When I used to look at my father-in-law's pieces, it was almost his flow was captured in the clay and you felt this human connection or almost connected to nature. Oh, you understood, oh, this is Macha Jawan, this bowl. Clearly, it comes from nature, like the elements of nature clay, water, it's been fired. But yeah, I think when we just get a regular cup, it lacks that uh emotional connection. Yes, I agree. That's also one of the important parts of tea ceremony is the guest or the host will choose a matchawan or a a vestal or otua for their guest based on maybe their personality. And then during the tea ceremony, the guest will actually take time to look at the matchawan and appreciate its design and texture. So a lot of effort goes into choosing the macha jawan for tea ceremony, and then the guest will appreciate the host's care in choosing that. And so this is the beauty of Japanese culture, like the emphasis on presence, but also appreciation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh, and also the I think respect for the individuals. So each of the uh the people has our own characteristic. Uh so according to that, we should select here our own utsuwa. That's yeah, uh thinking behind.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love it. And you've basically taken this idea of utua, which is this physical container vessel, and you see it as a a philosophy, and you describe it as the missing third element of Japanese philosophy, connecting it to the concepts of Ikigai and Kinsugi. So, would you like to touch on that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I also introduced a new metaphor. Think about the uh the the car or biko, uh, because I was working for the automotive industry for a long time. So for me, Ikigai is like an engine, main engine. It's a source of demotivation, source of driving yourself. And then kintsugi is like a mechanic. Uh kinsugi is used when the utsuba is once broken, but it's repaired with some uh gold and then attached to the broken part. It's like a mechanic. And then Utsua is like the frame or shashis. So it's kind of the main part of the automotive. That's why uh depend on the uh shashis, utsua, uh your capacity uh be decided, or your and the size of engine is decided. That's the uh idea behind.
Capacity, Burnout, And Kintsugi
SPEAKER_01I love it. That's a good metaphor. You also write, we have tools for purpose, ikingai, obviously, and repair kinsugi, but we lack the tool for capacity. And I think this emphasis really makes sense in a world where we're encouraged to buy more, we're encouraged to be more, you know, be the best version of yourself. And success is often equated to material success, having you know more than one car, um, having more than one home, and we're always pushing ourselves to be more or have more. So I did have the question: is this the reason we break? Is this the reason why people are burning out?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Uh sometimes, yeah. Kinchi is necessary when the Utsua is broken. But I personally think it's a kind of necessary process for people to grow up or improvement. The reason is that as far as you stay only in your comfortable zone or comfort zone, you cannot improve yourself. So sometimes you need uh new challenges and then you bring yourself to the edge of your limit, and then even the expand your limit. In that case, sometimes it's kind of the uh broken of the Utsula, but you can always repair it. So before you go the uh burnout, I would recommend to make a kinzeki. Yeah. Then you can make a better or more capable person. That's the idea.
SPEAKER_01I like that idea, and I think you're right. In our life, if we overcome adversity or have some form of trauma, it can make us understand I guess the deeper meaning of life. We get a stronger sense of identity, uh, we understand we're capable of more, and maybe despite reaching a breaking point, we do recover and then we're a fuller, stronger person. But I guess we don't want to do that too often, or we don't want to be in a constant state of stress.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Uh that's why you need uh your hakku, extra space.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I like it. I like space, and I'm really trying to embrace more space in my life. And I think it's quite hard to balance ambition and space. Ambition usually it's always future focused. You're sort of driving and you want to get to the future quite quickly. But I think this idea of utsua and capacity grounds you to the present. Would I be correct?
SPEAKER_00Uh yes and no. Actually, to determine your utsuwa size, you need your life purpose, like your life mission or a life vision. So I mean the precondition of fixing the size of the utsuwa. Uh you need to uh define your uh life mission first. That's my idea. Yeah.
Mission First, Capacity Follows
SPEAKER_01Can you go into that a bit deeper? My life mission?
SPEAKER_00Yes, for example, my previous life mission was the uh I'm gonna be a bridge between Germany and Japan. This was my life mission. Uh when I set my life mission, I had no idea what kind of action I should do. But in the end, now I published my book in Japan. And then also now German uh newspaper, the site, uh interviewed me and then it's uh on the German newspaper. So it's it's like a kind of the uh the bridge between Germany and Japan. So always uh your mission first and then the your act is next. And then eventually your Utsula, uh its size, it's determined. Uh if the your Utsula size is not big enough compared to your mission, maybe you have to make your Utsula larger.
SPEAKER_01I see. That makes sense. So if we do decide to have a life mission, we must also have the capacity to pursue it. And you're not saying one life mission, are you? You're saying we can have multiple missions during our life.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I I would say you can upgrade your life mission. In my case, my previous life mission was to become a bridge between Germany and Japan. But now my current life mission is to bring Japanese harmony to the world and then bring back the world's uh uh study to Japan. So it's kind of the uh bridge between Japan and the world.
The Three Pillars Of Utsuwa
SPEAKER_01I can relate to that. I I guess I feel I'm a bridge, and I I've often been told uh Nick, you're you're a bridge between Japanese culture and and Western culture. I also see that as a role, and tied to that role, I guess goals or opportunities. So, you know, writing a book or starting the podcast, etc. So often our mission is not really a goal, it's a role. For us, it's being a bridge. Yeah, it's interesting. You said you upgrade your mission, and maybe that's because of life experience, and maybe because yeah, you've been broken a few times and recovered with kintsugi. That's right. Yeah, it's an interesting philosophy. Up upgrade your mission as you learn and grow as a person. So you actually have a model of Utsuwa, and there are three pillars. So would you like to share those three pillars?
SPEAKER_00Uh okay, thank you very much for asking. So, as I already briefly explained, the one part is uh the groundness or utsua is so heavy. So you need some kind of the grounding part. That means you should be a kind of stable person, even if nowadays, like a chaos world, uh you yourself should be stable. This is the first point. And then the second point is the uh the size of the utsuwa. And then the size of utsuwa reflects your capability. So if you want to make more influence to the world, you need to make your utsuwa size and become bigger. And this is the second part. And then lastly, the third part, uh, by enlarging the utsuba size, you get more capacity inside the utsuwa. But uh you should never uh fill up the capacity because you should always keep some uh space, your haku. Otherwise, you cannot challenge new things, you cannot get new knowledge uh experience. That explains the utsua concept.
SPEAKER_01So with your haku, is that what you translate to void? Yeah, void, yes. I have to think about it because we are using utsua, essentially some form of pottery, to describe this metaphor. So it's yeah, especially something like a t bowl. I like this. So tea bowls are very grounded because they're low and wide, so very hard to knock over. They can hold a lot, and even when you have the tea in the matchajaman, there's still a lot of there's still a void, there's still plenty. There's it's like 95% of it's still empty space. So we're touching on the importance of emptiness, and you write about this. You share with Uttuwa there is emptiness, and emptiness has a function. What is that function?
Emptiness As A Feature
SPEAKER_00Good question. So from the uh brain side point of view, uh, if you are uh full of the schedule, when you have some task, always uh some task to do, uh there's no space for uh new idea or innovation. And if you have Yohaku or extra space, you have a time thinking, think nothing. So in Japan we say bot through. Bots means you do nothing and just uh watching maybe I don't know the blue sky, and then suddenly you come up with your new idea or innovative development and so on. Yeah, that's the uh kind of the function for the Yohakka.
SPEAKER_01I mean you tie to ego, if if we're always full, especially of ourself or our own ideas, then we cannot learn or hold anything else. And I think it happens in those moments when you're not thinking and you're not focused, when you are almost switched off and you're just observing something lightly like the blue sky. You have this little realization or kizuki, maybe a little epiphany, like ah, that problem I was working on. I think I have the solution now. It's like an angel taps on your shoulder and gives you an idea. So I think you're right, emptiness space, we need it, and when we don't have it, our mind is over-stimulated, we're stressed.
SPEAKER_00I think such uh empty space is more and more important because uh we have tons of uh information uh from the internet, and then also now we have a new technology like AI, and then in this time of the era, we need to keep intentionally our empty spaces, otherwise you are just throwing like a device, and uh you cannot control yourself.
Spacious Leadership In Practice
SPEAKER_01Yes, you actually also write. We are trying to pour an ocean of complexity into a teacup. So it's like you're suggesting instead of being a teacup that we usually almost fill to the top. It's like you're saying, I'll be a matchauan, a traditional Japanese teacup, where there's far more space, even after when you add the tea, and we have this room to relax, to enjoy life, to reflect, to consider others, to consider life. And even when you drink tea in the tea ceremony, you do it with so much presence and intention. And so maybe because you have that space, you can do that. But in the West, or not in the West, but generally, I think when we drink tea, you know, we might do it in front of a computer and then we start working, and then we forget the tea, and before we know it, the tea is cold or the coffee is cold, and then we have to heat it up in the microwave or something. Yeah, that's right. So this is a reflection of life too. We get distracted, lose focus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so Nikki, have you ever entered to the chasu? It's a tea ceremony room, very, very small tea ceremony room. So what you can do is just uh drink tea, match tea, or uh talk with people inside the room. That's it. Nothing else.
SPEAKER_01I was I was gonna say, even the design of the tea room is very uh simplistic, and there's usually only one or two pieces of decoration: a hanging scroll and kakiju, and a very small decorative flower in a vase. Again, usually the scroll is chosen for the guest. And outside of that, everything else is very organic. Yeah, the the tools are bamboo, and obviously the pottery is made from clay. So, yeah, it's so much about Japanese culture that could be a metaphor for living a life with intention. You also wrote Utsuwa encompasses the earthen, quality, warmth, depth, and the ability to hold contradictions. It implies a low centre of gravity. Can you talk about the power of contradictions?
SPEAKER_00So it's somehow related to the leadership style. Let's say the typical Western leadership style is a very strong leadership. So to lead the people to the uh defined goals. On the other hand, what I imagine about different leadership style is uh so-called servant leadership. So that means the leader is not needing the member strongly, but uh the leader supports each of the members. And then that means the leader respects each of the uh members' characteristics and then find their strongness uh or weakness, and then the try to maximize their potential and then contribute to a team. That's why yeah, such kind of characteristic is necessary as I showed in the Utsua metaphor.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I like this idea of Utsua philosophy to help card leaders, and you basically sum it up as moving away from this traditional strong leader type to spacious leader. So do you want to touch on that a bit more? What does it mean to be a spacious leader?
Measuring Your Utsuwa
SPEAKER_00Yes. Actually, uh this kind of concept I already wrote in my second book, the leadership book. And then by learning different types of leadership in Japan and as well as in Germany, I came up with the idea of the kind of hybrid style leadership style. That means sometimes you need a strong leadership in case of the emergency or in case of the necessity of the laboration, depending on the company state. However, most of the case you need to educate the people. You need to make up the system for more efficiency. Yeah, such kind of the uh different uh style of the leadership uh would be necessary even in one person. That's why you need uh much more capability or flexibility. Yeah, that's what I showed in Utzua Metawa. Does it make sense?
SPEAKER_01It does make sense. Even the idea of spacious leader, to me, it brings oh they they have space for others. You're approachable as a leader, employees can approach you without fear, and you have more time, like you have more time for others, and as you said, the servant leadership approach.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and then uh in the end, such kind of leader gets uh complete autonomy in the team. That means you don't need uh any kind of micromanagement, it's because each member sink by themselves, but on the other hand, as a team, it makes a harmony. So it's kind of the ideal team style or leadership style. That's why I wanted to introduce.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I like it. I think it's creating obviously autonomy, but also agency. People can make their own decisions, and then I guess even authenticity when you have the space. So very helpful model and almost counterintuitive to some degree, I guess for Westerners. It's like off fill up the space, do more, uh, achieve more. I think it might take Westerners to hold back their initial impulse and think, okay, this idea of space.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just imagine about your personal computer, so Windows or a Mac. So we have an OS and also the uh fixed uh memory size and also the application software. Most of people try to increase the your application software by ignoring your hardware performance. Then in the end, memory is full and the your total performance is lower. I think in the most cases, people do that. That's why I recommend to always keep the extra margin for your memory.
SPEAKER_01That's a good way to describe it. Totally makes sense. So, somewhat related to that, you have a diagnostic tool to measure one's, I guess, personal utsua with four questions. Would you like to share them?
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, you mean the way uh how to enlarge your uh utsua?
Guidelines To Expand Capacity
SPEAKER_01Or the the four questions uh to measure one's utsuwa. So I think the first one is can you hold success without becoming arrogant?
SPEAKER_00So by developing your utsuwa concept, you might be promoted in the company or you might be a higher position in the society. Uh in the most of the cases, people are show that they are egoistic, and then nobody follows you. So you should be very careful on that point.
SPEAKER_01And then I think the second question is can you hold failure without shattering?
SPEAKER_00I already explained about the kinzigi and some repair work uh for utsuba. So you should not stay in the one-size utsuwa. You need to break the uh utsuva if it's necessary, and then the repair it. So by that you need to enlarge your utsuwa. However, in order to avoid the burnout, you should accept your failure or mistake and then try to repair it. Yeah, that's the second point.
SPEAKER_01I mean, on that, I guess we do break, but if we shattered, then it becomes much harder to repair ourselves because shattering would suggest many, many broken pieces, much harder to repair. I guess we've got to be careful to what degree we break.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Don't push yourself too hard. Maybe push your moderate.
SPEAKER_01The third one, the third question's interesting. You you ask, can you hold someone else's immaturity without judging? And judging is a behavior we almost automatically do as soon as we meet others. But if someone is immature, then we're going to be very critical of them. So, how do we do this? How do we hold other people's immaturity?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I know that this is a difficult uh question and diagnostic. However, without this, you cannot enlarge your uh Utsua because Utsua is uh always related to the other people around you. I mean that it's coming from the relationship with others. So if you uh exclude your judgment from the relationship, you could be grown up and then enlarged your utsuwa. That's the idea behind.
SPEAKER_01And then the final one is I think it's tied to discomfort. Can you sit with loneliness and uncertainty without panicking?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's also the challenging one. And so a reader is always alone and lonely because they need to make their decision by their own in the end, and then they need to take all of the responsibility. In that sense, every reader is lonely and alone. And then also the our outside world is quite unstable right now, so day by day the situation is changing, so it's like a storm. So even in such a storm, you could keep yourself and then you could judge by your own policy or by your own judgment. That would be the force point. Nice.
Containers For A Complex World
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there is a storm. I I guess we don't want to have a storm in our teacup. Do you know that um expression? A storm in a teacup? Yeah. So we we don't want that in our utsua. Yeah. And I guess Utsuwa gives us enough space. Yeah, it's an interesting concept. I'm really liking this metaphor of Utsuwa to encourage space and comfort and and room, but also that it can break. And if it does break you repair it, and from that you grow you you might even be stronger and more appealing because obviously Kintsugi has that very appealing aspect to it. And so you're relating it to leadership. Can you be a spacious leader? But you also have advice, general advice, I think, for anyone, how you can embrace and expand this concept of Utsuwa with I guess three guidelines or three pieces of advice. So would you like to share them?
Less Noise, More Meaning
SPEAKER_00Yes, exactly. I have a point to expanding your bestula. So Hotwan is the uh accept the crux. This show the imperfection of YSL. Some people cannot accept your crux because of uh your pride. However, the large Utzua person accept any kind of the imperfection and admit it, and then even show to the people around you. Yeah, that is one point. Okay, and then the second point is the uh lower the center. So when the stress, uh you are so nervous, and then you put your target very high. However, in such a case, grounding is necessary. So as I uh explained in the Utsua metaphor, uh Utsua showed you some kind of the heavy ground. You should be stable and you should be in the center, but on the lower position. That makes you Some stable positions. This is the second point. And then last but not least, the third point is uh practice the void your hacker. So when I was uh the leader in Germany, I spent a lot of time for one-on-one meeting. So that means uh one-on-one talking with each of every employees. So such kind of the uh conversation, uh such kind of the attitude to understand the people is uh quite necessary to enlarge your Utsua. This is a sad point. Nice.
SPEAKER_01I think that's really important. As a leader, you or just as a person, you you get to know others, connect and learn more about who they are. You you never know what other people are going through. So we live in a very transactional world. Yes. We need to live in a more human world. Exactly. And I I guess our leaders should create this space for that. And I think you kind of refer to leaders as containers and that the world needs containers or more containers. So, what do you mean by that?
SPEAKER_00More containers. Um that means of course it's also related to the communication. Even the you know, the think about the world pieces. We have a lot of war. So every war happens, mainly happens from the uh kind of misunderstanding of the people. That's why first of all, we need to understand the people as a world, and then the second point is we should show the a large acceptance of the people who have a different idea or different mentality. Such kind of the uh things is showing the container. That's the idea behind.
SPEAKER_01Nice. I'd like to end with a quote. You write, we don't need more information, we don't need more noise, we need people who can contain the complexity of this century without breaking. The world is seeking those who possess the earthen quality, resilient, warm, and spacious. And I think that's describing a human being.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's right. The most of people think to improve yourself to grow or do to grow up yourself, you need to get more information, you get more knowledge, you get more experience. Yeah, that is one side, but what I recommend is to not to add but to remove some noises, then you know the dear yourself, and then you can find uh any kind of dear truth inside yourself.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that's a perfect question to end with. What can you remove instead of add to make your life more meaningful?
Where To Find Shigeki
SPEAKER_00Okay, again, uh keep your time, keep your extra time, your hacker. And then I also recommend things like uh uh the meditation. Yeah. There's a lot of tools in the world.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I also like journaling. I think journaling is very helpful. So have have space for journaling. And I also think what you touched on earlier, having meaningful conversations. So having space for that. But we are living in a, yeah, as you said, a more challenging era with devices, social media, now AI. Uh yes. And the pursuit of more. But I think it's less is more, really.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's the exact uh phrase. Yeah, what is all of my thinking? Yeah, less is more.
SPEAKER_01Well, I love your theory or philosophy of Utsuwa. I'm glad we had the time and space to meet in Okinawa last November, Shige. And I'm looking forward to our next conversation. Yes, sure. Anytime. So thank you for joining me today. How can our listeners reach out to you?
SPEAKER_00Um, actually, I have uh Ohisha website, so maybe you can attach that URL uh on your podcast. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Sure, we'll add that to the show notes. And I think you're also active on LinkedIn. LinkedIn as well, yes. Awesome, Shige. So thank you so much for joining me today.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Nick. Thanks for inviting me. Uh, that was lots of fun to talk with you.
SPEAKER_01Likewise, my pleasure. We'll obviously talk again and hopefully meet in May this year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure.