235. First 100 Days as a CFO: Mastering the 60–90 Day Window as a CFO with Jeremy Earnshaw

 In this episode of the CFO 4.0 Podcast, host Hannah Munro is joined by experienced CFO and executive coach Jeremy Earnshaw to explore one of the most critical – and often overlooked – phases of the CFO journey: the 60–90 day window. 

In this episode, we cover:

• How to assess and ensure data integrity before making strategic decisions
• Signs of broken processes, bottlenecks, and weak control environments
• Building trust and alignment with your CEO, team, and peers
• Managing people issues and making tough but necessary team changes
• The importance of cash, liquidity, and long-term visibility in planning
• Avoiding early mistakes and setting the tone for your CFO leadership journey

Links mentioned: 

• Jeremy's Linkedin
• Learn more about Clarendon Executive Coaching and Mentoring

• Explore other CFO 4.0 Podcast episodes here.
• Subscribe to our Podcast!

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to CFO 4.0
• 5:13 60-90 Days: Focus on Data Integrity
• 13:14 Warning Signs and Evaluating Data Quality
• 27:10 Team Dynamics and Gaining Engagement
• 36:32 Justifying Your Role and Adding Value
• 43:00 CFO-CEO Relationship Dynamics
• 48:36 Working Effectively with Peers

Transcript

Ad 1: 0:00

Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance. The CFO role is changing rapidly, moving from cost controller to strategic visionary, and with every change comes opportunity. We are here to help you take advantage of this transition to win at work, drive your career forwards and lead with confidence. To win at work, drive your career forwards and lead with confidence. Join Hannah Munro, managing Director of ITAS, a financial transformation consultancy, as she interviews key experts to give you real-world advice and guidance on how to transform your processes, people and data. Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance.

Hannah Munro: 0:51

Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of CFO 4.0. And this is the final episode in our new CFO series. And you will be no surprise to anybody the name of our guest. If you haven't heard his name or heard his voice, you've obviously not been listening to enough episodes of CFO 4.0 podcast. I'd like to welcome Jeremy Earnshaw back on the show. Welcome, jeremy.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 1:17

Thanks, hannah. Pleasure to be here again and, as usual, looking forward to our discussion.

Hannah Munro: 1:23

As always, jeremy, the same here. So we are in the phase three of the new CFO role. So, looking at those 60 to 90 days, what does that look like typically, and what sort of things should you start to think about at this stage?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 1:50

this stage, 60 to 90 days, hannah. So I think at that stage for a relatively new CFO, I'm beginning to get far more of a picture about data integrity. So I probably had a couple of set piece month ends maybe three if I'm extending into that 60 to 90 days. So I'm beginning to get much more of a clearer understanding of the speed of the production of data, the integrity of data, the accuracy of forecasting, and I'm beginning to create my own views of how I can be feeling and how comfortable I am relying on data which the whole of the organization is using to make decisions. And that's really at the heart of it, in that the data is so important that before I'm ready to move on into value-added projects, I really need to create that environment of control that everybody can rely on.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 2:49

So I'm asking myself the questions in those 60 to 90 days. What's surprising me? Is there anything that is a shock to me? How are my team working in and around the process of the production of data? And it might sound a little bit basic, but until I'm really comfortable with the control environment, with the data integrity environment, it makes it difficult for me, let alone anybody else, to start making major, major decisions for the organization, and it would be great to assume that you're going into an organization or stepping up in an organization where there is a history of good and accurate data integrity. I do like to prove that to myself as well.

Hannah Munro: 3:42

So what if the science just let's talk specifically about data integrity at this stage what are some of the things that you're looking for to say we've got a problem here? What are the sorts of things that you would see as a CFO that would tell you actually we need to go back to basics. I need to get hold of this.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 4:00

And I think there's two ways of looking at it as well, hannah, because you could take the view that the control environment, the production of data, is somebody else's responsibility, and I'll work on a need to know basis. I'm personally not like that. I need to understand that I have really good integrity of data and, as I mentioned, I've proven it to myself. So some of the warning signs and I think you and I have spoken beforehand around the fact that I joined organizations and this may be particular to my circumstances as well I've tended to work for organizations which are in a growth phase, so they're either growing organically in a very significant way or we're embedding and looking to create mergers and acquisitions environment. So I'm in a rolling process anyway. So I can't stand still Going back to your question about what are the signs.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 5:04

So, lateness of production of data. So we, as heads of finance, will have a timetable around month end or the leading into the production of data for a regulatory submission or a compliance submission, or leading into a budget process or a year-end process if there are issues around people submitting data late or having to work really extended hours to meet timetables and deadlines and there's a significant element of variation to the time that the data is produced. That feels like a warning sign that we have single points of failure. We have too many manual processes, we have a creaking environment that is just about managing to cope with where we are in the organizational phase, but is absolutely not able to cope with further growth phase, but is absolutely not able to cope with further growth. And I'm asking myself the question again if I was to join this organization right now and I had a completely blank sheet of paper, would I set up that control and structured environment the way it is now? And if the answer is no, then I'm trying to think about what actions and developments I can put into place to make it more routine. So I'm looking for routine no shocks, no surprises. It's like a bit of a utopia, but anything that punctures that balloon in terms of shocks, surprises, missing forecasts both ways as well Missing forecasts in a good way can sometimes be as bad as missing forecasts on the negative side as well.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 6:54

It just means that we can't be totally in control of our forecasts. And I'm looking at the historical data. Is what I've been told two to three months ago? Is that being borne out, or is it something that is now, something that I heard two to three months ago and it's now irrelevant because I'm making my own view. So it does sound as if I'm focusing very much on an inward-looking part still, but I think at that 30, 60, 90 day phase of joining or stepping up in an organization, that integrity of data is just so important because you're representing the numbers and the financial performance of the organization to the rest of the stakeholders and then we're making decisions on that. So I really need to understand that I'm in control of that we're making decisions on that.

Hannah Munro: 7:46

So I really need to understand that I'm in control of that and I guess at that 60 day mark, you're now almost taking ownership for the information that you're putting in. You, kind of that window of being able to say, oh, that's because of things that happened before I joined. It is kind of disappearing at that stage, isn't it? It's, it's now. You're, I guess, within your remit and you will be held accountable if those aren't right.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 8:07

I think that's from day one anyway, but I absolutely understand the point that you're making and I won't go into. I'll keep this apolitical, but we're a year on now from the last general election.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 8:22

And I'm sure it would have been the case, with the two main parties changing sides as well, but we're still hearing the it was all somebody else's fault and I think there's a very limited window for that and I'm not a big fan of that anyway. But you're accountable from day one and I think that's the challenge is that whatever happens, it's down to you, and that's one of the challenges and I know we've mentioned this briefly before about that ability to step up, which is it's just on you now as an individual and your team, and you're expected to deliver, no matter what the challenges are. You're there to fix it so that that that responsibility of you can't deflect you can't. You might be able to deflect tax tasks and delegate tasks, but you can't delegate that responsibility as a director of the company and this is in the company's act. You can't delegate that authority and responsibility. So so it's on you.

Hannah Munro: 9:33

And the quicker you get to the stage of making sure that you're in control of that data, the better. And so we talked about obviously you know the importance of data because you're wanting to kind of shift into that forward looking part of the role. At this stage of your new role, what kind of key decisions are you thinking about or preparing to make? What do you need to be able to make decisions on in this stage of your role cycle?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 9:57

As you and I have spoken before, and if you're not in this position. And if you're not in this position, it's a great, you know that's great, but I always try to focus upon liquidity and cash, and that might involve having two different forecasts, for example. So if I'm in an indebted business which many of our organizations will be or if I'm in a strategic phase of a three to five-year program, maybe working for private equity or venture capital backed organizations, I'm thinking about liquidity and cash. So all of the decisions for me come down to liquidity and cash. If I've got a suite of lender covenants, if I've got a suite of covenants or performance indicators that I have to achieve for my investors, I'm thinking about how I'm comfortable in delivering on that and I need to have complete visibility on that. So I'm thinking about all of those impacts that can have an influence upon cash and liquidity and lender covenants and investor metrics, and that's my starting point. I'm then thinking about the information that we are using as a group of people, not just finance people, but as a member of a board and being responsible for the entire performance of the organization, not your particular discipline.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 11:28

A really strong concept for me, which is if you're in that position of being a CFO I think we've mentioned this again before you have to be a director of the organization, not the director of the bit of the organization that is your subject matter, not the director of the bit of the organization that is your subject matter.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 11:45

So being able to make decisions based on that data to create value, to deliver value for your stakeholders and shareholders, is really, really critical. And similarly, again, if we're working in a slightly different environment and I've worked in a regulated environment there are some particular events in the year. So submissions to regulators, being prepared, for example, to be the subject of an in-depth assessment in the housing sector, for example, all of those being ready to present your data and recognize that somebody is about to scrutinize it. So really critical for me to be able to get to that stage of using the data to make value added project decisions going forward and to set the tone for the next ratings, the annual review, that part of the plan that is creating a three-year or a five-year strategy. At what point do the investors take a review, whether maybe we've got fundraising event coming up. So all of those are in my mind as to what's happening in the next 12 months. But I really need to get control of the data integrity first.

Hannah Munro: 13:02

So we've talked about not just the robustness of data but almost the speed of data and using that to dig into bottlenecks and processes. And obviously there's an element of team. If we keep internally focused for a little bit Now, you know, what sorts of decisions around team culture etc. Would you start to be considering at this stage of your new cfo role?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 13:30

I think, looking into the role of the number one in finance, whatever that's called, I think, whether you're stepping up or whether you're new in post from a different organization, I think your team's looking at you to demonstrate values and behaviors. So it starts from you and everybody has weaknesses and gaps in their armory when doing that. So I think a good way after, say, 60 or 90 days is to almost repeat what potentially you would have done in the first few hours and days, which is to say, almost take a coaching approach. How is it for you? What are you finding in the last 60 days? What are your frustrations? A really good one, as in any discipline, as I'm sure you know, hannah, ask people to lay out all their frustrations. You get a really good set of answers. People are very happy to tell you what's frustrating you, what is preventing them from doing their roles to the best of their ability, whether it be process, procedure, investment, their role, description, all of those things and try and gauge that and summarize that into feedback. So after 60, 70 days, I'm repeating that information with the team. I'm asking them the frustrations, I'm asking how it can be improved, and I think that gains engagement, of course, with the team, but it should give you a really useful set of criteria about which to structure that next 12 months. So, are the roles right? Are people in the roles? Are they delivering?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 15:16

I start from one premise which is for everybody, not just in the finance team but certainly particularly if I'm head of finance question to ask ourselves how do we justify our salary? So, if we add up how much we're paid across you and your team, bearing in mind that many people potentially wrongly see you as just a hindrance on the bottom line because we're back office functions and we don't necessarily produce any value, recognize that and start from the premise of how do I recover my salary for the organization? How do I recover the salaries of the team? What projects, what actions am I going to take that at the end of a period I can say this function has cost us, however, many thousand pounds, but we've delivered project A, b, c, d. We've recovered our salaries through margin improvement, through better working capital management, through better actions that we've taken, through streamlining processes, through automating processes. Am I on the debit side or the credit side at the end of the year? And it's a really good starting point for anybody, I think. Going into that number one finance role or any role of responsibility. How do I justify my presence in an organization? And if you approach each day like that, then you can get some real value-added projects from your team around you. I think.

Hannah Munro: 16:54

Yeah, I think there's loads of things to unpack in that.

Hannah Munro: 16:57

I think the first thing you said about kind of doing a go-back round to revalidate what you heard in the first 30 days because I see this a lot as a consultant when you first go into a project you're still building that trust and you know that connection with with the team that you're working with and what you get told in the first 30 days of a project is very different to what you start to hear in, say, the 60 to 90 days of a project.

Hannah Munro: 17:24

You know, because they've they've tried, they've got, they've built that trust with that team that you're, that they can tell you things, perhaps when, when they didn't know you, they're a bit more uncomfortable to say so. I think that's such a critical thing to consider is go back round of not just evaluating what you've you know you've already spoken about and asking how it's gone, but revalidating these are the things you told me are a problem. What else haven't you told me that I need to know? Now you know, now we've had more time to get to know each other I think that's really critical.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 18:00

I think that's a really good observation. It's like some of my coaching sessions as well, in that people come to you with an idea about coaching, whether that be and that can be all sorts of different reasons to come to the coaching environment. I think in almost all of the cases that I've been coaching in the last six or seven years, three or four sessions in the agenda's changed, and for the for good reason, in that you again you begin to, or the, the coachee and the mentee begin to unpack themselves because of that relationship, because of the rapport that's hopefully increased, and they're able to have slightly different and maybe sometimes completely different conversations. I think it's the same in that position of responsibility in the team as well. I think up front, in the first few days you might have got a very neutral response, not quite sure about you as an individual. So why would I go off on an extreme, saying what's terribly wrong about the organization or what's terribly right? I might just be very neutral if I'm responding to questions about what is it? What it is about that's keeping you here, what do you enjoy doing? What frustrates you?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 19:18

Maybe a couple of months in you've maybe got a little bit of evidence to say, I saw you working late for two days before the end of a month, for example. I saw you having challenges in dealing with external stakeholders or the production of data. Tell me what's behind that. And some of those observations are just. They're just coaching and mentoring and human nature observations, really nothing to do with finance. So how are people managing on a day-to-day basis in terms of their structure?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 19:50

We all work in a different environment now, after five years after COVID. So how are people engaging and working with the way that you're working? Is that compatible, the way that you're working? Is that compatible? Um? And if it's not, then there maybe need to be some quite challenging conversations around. I suppose in the old phrase, it would be you know how do? How does it work around here? And people need to get to know you a little bit more and people need to understand what their role is a little bit more from you. So again, after two to three months, hopefully there's the opportunity to do that and to try and cut through a bit more.

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Hannah Munro: 20:58

And from a team perspective. So very often you know you might be going in. If you're lucky you'll be going into an established team, everything running beautifully and it's you know. Know you can really focus on your old cfo. Just for instance, say you go into a challenging environment where processes aren't right, technology is not right, the team aren't right. What would you prioritize in that instance?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 21:22

I think you hit the nail on the head there about prioritize. I'm trying to think of a good example in that if I'm joining an organization, I have to say I've never really joined an organization, whatever size, where everything's been okay In each case. I've probably been given to be led to believe that everything is fine from a data, integrity and a balance sheet and a control environment. It's never really been like that and I can imagine listeners and viewers sort of smiling when they hear that as well. But people like to do things their own way anyway and clearly it would be nice to think that you can add something to an organization, no matter how successful the function's been in the past. So priority for me is just understanding the roles that the team members are having and trying to get to the heart of their frustrations as well. And that's number one. You can't do anything without having. If you're a leader, you have to have some followers. If you're a leader, without followers you're not a leader. So you need some followers, you need to be embedded with the, and I'm having a bunch of individuals. Then there's no team. Is there a social identity? Are people wanting to have a social identity in and around the organization. It's not for everybody. Lots of people are quite content to perform their role to the best of their ability and to not necessarily engage in the whole social identity. I think that's fine, because there's a role for everybody in a team. So, starting with the team and what's frustrating them in delivering what's required.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 23:17

And again I go back to the objectives of the organization as well. Start from the top. What's the vision, the mission and the values of the organization? What's the vision, the mission and the values of the organization? And if we've got a set of KPIs within the organization that demonstrate how we're going to get to that mission and achieve the vision, then we can frame all of our conversations, in whatever discipline, around what are we doing today that is helping us achieve our objectives as an organization?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 23:49

If we can't relate what we're doing one way or the other to the objectives of the organization, then we can deprioritize that because we need to think there's a tangible or indirect link to what we're trying to achieve as an organization and we should, one way or the other, be able to link that to the overall culture and the mission and the vision and the values of the organization. Same can apply for KPIs, and if we're producing information, where does it feature in the KPIs? If it doesn't really have any impact on that, then what are we doing it for? So I think that's the way I would approach it. Prioritization I've mentioned cash. No apologies for mentioning it again. So I prioritize cash, I prioritize liquidity, I prioritize integrity of data, the the way that the team works together and how we can do things on a more streamlined basis going forward.

Hannah Munro: 24:53

And do you think that 60 to 90 day window is too early to start making some fundamental shifts in either team? Or, you know, like almost like big, impactful decisions? Is it it too early? Is it when you need to start thinking about them? What's, what's your gauge?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 25:11

I don't think it's too early. Um, what I am in favor of is if, if, as if you're in a position of again either stepping into an organization or stepping up within an organization. I'm personally not a great fan of just changing things for changing sake, to demonstrate that you're the leader. I think you are in danger of making some ill-conceived decisions just for performance sake or physical appearance sake. So I think, as long as you've got a business case behind every decision that you're making, whether it's day one or day 1000, if there's a business case behind it, I I use this approach, particularly from a finance background, with any organization. What's the business case? And I do this now as a non-exec as well, in that if there's a business case behind it and you've demonstrated the evidence behind the business case, for example, if I don't necessarily agree with it personally as a non-exec, but the executives have demonstrated the business case, I'll back the executives on that, because it's not my basis to run the organization as a non-exec.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 26:25

I think the same kind of thing can apply never too early to make a decision. But why are you doing it? Who's going to benefit from that decision? Same would apply in any discipline. Who benefits? What are the risks? What are the rewards? Am I working within my investment criteria? For example, is it in line with the vision, mission, values and objectives of the organization and who's going to benefit, and similarly, who may be disadvantaged, by this kind of decision making?

Hannah Munro: 27:01

So, having the evidence behind it to make any decision, I think can apply day one or day a thousand and I think it's an interesting piece, isn't it about how the decisions you make in your first 90 days almost sets the tone for your? For the rest, you know for who you are as a leader. So you know, are you particularly careful, not just about the business case, but what decisions you kick off? It's always like does your first decision, set of decisions, define you as a CFI?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 27:36

I'll give you an example. I use this as a case study when I'm delivering executive education and I use it in some different forums as well. So I work with an organization in the dim and distant past and a new COO came in and it happened to be when one of my organizations was acquired by a major US organization and I had to stay around the enlarged organization for a period of time and I thought this was going to be very interesting because this was an organization which was huge huge compared to the one that I worked for, global organization. I was very interested to see how managers and leaders behaved in an organization that I probably would never be part of if I was an individual aiming to get a role. It was a huge, great global organization.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 28:28

Coo came in and great guy, really interesting guy, and made some categoric failures in making some decisions very early. So in order to demonstrate his role which is sort of a new role across the whole of the organization, he launched a strategic project which was aimed to take around nine months and all of the basis behind the project was correct. It was about streamlining the branding, it was about streamlining back office systems, integrating Europe with the US and North America. All of the bases were correct, the execution and the operation of the project were a disaster. So it was very much a vision, but with nothing behind it. So the incentives weren't there, the risks hadn't been covered, the resources weren't there to deliver that. To cut a very long story short, the idea of almost a huge Big Bang style project. Nine months later, this individual didn't have a job because it failed so spectacularly and failed visibly as well and wasted a ton of money in the organization. And, as I mentioned, I do use it as a case study because the criteria for a successful project were not there. What were the measures? What were the measures? What were the incentives? Where are the resources? Did you have the skills and did you have an action plan? You had a vision. You had a vision, but nothing else, and that project was a spectacular failure. So I just think having to think about all of those areas is quite critical. Whether it's a project or whether it's a transformation program or whether it's just an improvement program. Have you got everything in place to make it stick and a useful way of thinking about things?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 30:54

I think viewers and listeners would be familiar with the kind of decision you make on people and sometimes it just doesn't work between you and some people around you for a whole variety of reasons, many of whom listening and watching will be familiar. Maybe there's some people who thought they could be in your role and that's not really working out. Maybe you just have different ways of working. Maybe the roles are too close in terms of the differential, or rather lack of differential, and maybe those people are part of the problem or part of the solution. And that's maybe a question to ask again. Is the role keep individual personalities out of it? Is the role that's being performed? Is that part of a problem or is it part of a solution? Going forward, if you can change the role for that individual, great. If you can change the role, but the individual doesn't want to fit into that role, then you have a problem. So I think in almost all cases it's been around people issues, and what a surprise that is that you have to get your people right around you. So I think, revolving around people again, making sure that you are responding to the brief with your CEO and stakeholders as well, you're beginning to get much more of an understanding of how your stakeholders act and behave and lead in an organization.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 32:32

If we think about the time spent with your CEO as a new CFO going through the process of being appointed even in the longest processes two, three, four stages perhaps and I'm not sure there's too many organizations that have three or four stage interview programs to get through to this stage of receiving the invitation to take on a role how long have we spent listening and talking to our CEO or chair or stakeholders Less than half a day, maybe, and maybe that's something we should think about around accepting a role as well. And how much time have I spent with the person who I'm going to spend six to eight hours a day with, if not directly in contact, indirectly in contact, with five days a week out of hours, potentially as well, on stressful projects, on challenges within the organization? Am I going to get on with my CEO and my stakeholders, because that's such a fundamental relationship? You should be the right-hand person to the CEO. You should be what I would call a CFO plus or an FD plus, which does mean that you have to have your elbows out and your arms out and stick your oar in basically to things. Are they going to accept that as an individual or is that going to be seen as impinging on their authority? You'd like to think that as an individual? Or is that going to be seen as impinging on their authority? You'd like to think that everybody would welcome challenge. I think lots of my CEOs and I see this in the coaching angle as well lots of people will say I absolutely want my CFO to challenge me, but in practice some people don't.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 34:27

And trying to perhaps get a framework of how you would work together is maybe worth spending just a little bit of time in that appointment process by saying thanks very much for the job offer. Why don't we just go for a walk for a couple of hours and just get to know each other? And it could be good for them as well. All of a sudden they might think actually, do you know what? We're not going to be able to get on, and hopefully it doesn't get to that stage too many times and that's why we use recruitment organizations as well to try and minimize the risk. But all appointments are a risk for everybody. At C-suite level in particular I've made numerous posts about this more than 50% of people in a C-suite position are not in that role within 18 months after appointment and some of those are for positive reasons, but not many, and the rate is higher in the role of CFO. So it's not long. It's not long for those roles to be missing what they're trying to achieve. So how can we minimize the risk of doing that?

Hannah Munro: 35:39

So what should that CEO-CFO dynamic look like at 90 days? How do you know that at 90 days, you're on the right track? What are some of the warning styles? Because if you've got, say, an 18 month window, you've kind of got to get it right within the first six months to be there in 18 months, haven't you? So what, what does a good dynamic look like? And then, what's the what's the opposite of that?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 36:07

I think I think one where you can. You can accept feedback both ways. So again that that question how, how is it? How is it for you after the first, you know, month, two months, three months? Has it changed in the last 30 days? Um, am I, am I achieving the expectations of what you wanted from the role? And, of course, you can plan for this by saying in the interview process, in the appointment process really good question, no big surprises, not original.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 36:38

But the question of what does success look like? It sounds quite a generic term but you can really get that through your appointment process what specifically does success look like for you? Because that's my template for my behaviors and my approach in the first 90 to 100 days in an organization. So I think again, like the coaching angle, revisit that. What is it looking like? And we all know that it's great to have a 12-month plan and life isn't like that because we have crises, we have challenges and things happen. So that might be old news three months ago. So what is it that the CEO and the stakeholders are looking for? So revisit that, reframe it if necessary. What's working for you, what's not working for you, what can I do better? And similarly a good relationship. You'll get that on the other way around as well.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 37:40

So I'm thinking about the, let's say, a combination of the best bits of CEOs that I've worked with, the, let's say, a combination of the best bits of CEOs that I've worked with. And I've had that in not necessarily all at once, but that framework where I remember one negative example which turned into a positive, which was working with my CEO and I think I was running late and I was 30 or 40 minutes late and we'd agreed to have a discussion about something. And this is going back a few years. But my CEO said just at the end of the day, said I was really annoyed and I'll just tell you I was really annoyed because we'd set the discussion. He didn't let me know in advance and, yes, you were kind of running on something which was important, but that's not quite the way that I work and it was perfectly pleasant and sensible. But I did go away from that day thinking, yeah, you're absolutely right, I could have just said I've got a problem and basic business manners, which I didn't do on that occasion, and it didn't happen again and I worked for that CEO for the next eight years. So that worked really really well and don't have to be best pals.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 38:58

But what I'm looking for for a CEO, in the appointment process and ongoing, is somebody who is willing to be challenged, willing to accept a different point of view as an option, willing to take on board, not just from finance but other disciplines, great advice, because we can't all be great at everything. So how can we make the CEO's role easy, Because that's in everybody's interests as a leader, to make sure that he's on the right track or she, of course, that they're on the right track, that your investors and stakeholders are getting what they want out of the organization and, if we have a regulatory oversight, that we're compliant with what the regulator wants as well, so that that CFO plus role, mutual respect don't have to get your own way all of the time. And again, I'm not sure any of these things will be unique to people listening and watching, but worth reiterating about that's how it can work really really positively and having an environment where people take some criticism and react to it positively.

Hannah Munro: 40:12

And so we talked about, obviously, down the chain, the team and what's happening there. We've talked about up the chain, the CEO and that relationship dynamic. What about at a peer level? What should your relationships with your key stakeholders within the business look like? What sort of things? You mentioned obviously elbows out, arms out, getting involved with things. What are some of the signs that things aren't going well?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 40:41

I think you you frame that that question really well in that there is still that caricature of finance as just being a drain on the costs of the organization and maybe in certain cases it can be generically true. So I think what we're trying to do with other disciplines within the organization is demonstrate value, and I've seen it happen in coaching and in executive roles, where maybe other people within the organization need to be coached by the CFO into what that function and what that role can actually deliver. Because if you worked in an organization where the FD or the CFO has just been seen to be the producer of numbers, then they might just need a little bit of education in a very nice way. Say you know what? We're actually quite intelligent over there in the corner, speaking in our different languages and talking about acronyms all the time. Actually we can really help you, we can really help sales, we can really help marketing, we can really help IT, really help the development or investment areas.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 41:58

So being a real success trick, I suppose, is when people want you in their discussions because they want to have that validation from finance on whatever they're working on.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 42:12

So if you're beginning to get invited into those conversations, I think that's a really plus point.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 42:20

The reverse is true If you're not being invited into those and that's a warning sign for me where there's no requirement for a finance or a cash involvement in a discussion, I thought all those years ago I'm surely going to be involved in most of the really critical decisions of an organization and that's exactly true for me. So if I'm not being engaged by my customers, so my customers sales, marketing, IT, et cetera they should really want me or my team representing me in those kinds of discussions, to get validation, to get the challenge, to get the approval, so that when you get to the stage of approving actions, priorities, timelines, when somebody says, have you had to sign off from finance on that? Have you discussed that? Have you stress tested it? Have you looked at the different options, and you can say we've done all of that and we've got validation from the CFO or from members of the team. So, working with my peers, I'm thinking it will be really good validation if we're getting to be seen to be more than just number crunches.

Hannah Munro: 43:43

Lots of people will recognize that, I'm sure who are listening and watching so we've talked a lot about all of the things you should do, so what shouldn't you be doing in that 60 to 90 period day period?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 43:58

60 to 90 day period. What shouldn't we be doing? Um, I think we've mentioned some of them already, but I just think, again, making decisions for pure appearance sake is is just not something that sits easily with me. I think you can make some mistakes bearing in mind, um and sometimes you hear this going through an appointment process as well, which sometimes is frustrating. People recruit and appoint CFOs or FDs, number ones in finance with experience in a particular sector. I take a slightly dim view of that because, for people who've gone through the process of becoming qualified accountants and finance officers, I think there's some evidence there that people can pick sectors and organizations and business models up very, very quickly. So I think some of the things which you shouldn't be doing as with any role, not making judgments based purely on personalities you can all get to work with people who you wouldn't necessarily have a drink with, you wouldn't necessarily be friends with. You can have very structured business relationships with people who are valuable to the company, who do a great job for the company, who just are not necessarily in the same personality scale as you are. So I think making judgments based on personalities wrong. Making judgments based on roles and responsibilities yes, so other things shouldn't be doing. I'd be. I'd go back to the first thing. I just want integrity of data. I'm also beginning to think about making sure that we know what the longer-term plans are, so making sure that we are satisfying again.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 45:54

Going back to vision, mission and objectives of an organization, I'll give you an example. If, let's say, an organization has a three-year plan to exit whether it be sale, private organization or backed by private equity or seed capital or venture capital, thinking about things purely from a short-term point of view may hinder you three years in advance. Because if I'm coming in to buy a business in three years' time, one of the questions that I'm asking, particularly of the finance team and the CFO, is, for example, how accurate is your forecasting? How accurate is your budget data? Do you have a track record of doing what you say you would do? Because that's influencing me on whether I'm going to buy that business. So if, for example, you go in to buy a business, so if, for example, you go into buy a business or thinking about buying a business and the management team says here's a five-year plan. Sounds great, wonderful. Everyone's going to make tons of money and realize lots of shareholder value if you hit your targets.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 47:02

The question I'm asking is what's been your history about hitting forecast? If you then say, well, in the last three years I've had a budget or a forecast and we've missed it every year by 60%, but we just like to have a structured budget which was very, very aggressive, then I'm thinking you've just blown your five-year forecast completely away because you never hit your forecast. So doing something in that first 60 to 100 days may well have an impact three or four years down the line. So, thinking about what's the strategic objectives of the organization, am I going to be in a sell process? Am I in a public company environment where making decisions can have a real influence on a short-term share price or a long-term share price? Do I have some regulatory considerations to think about as well? So I'm thinking the context is important. So making decision in the context of what Going back again, having that direct link to the vision, the mission, the objectives and the strategy of the organization. A decision made today could well come back and have a problem three years down the line.

Hannah Munro: 48:19

Awesome. Well, we are rapidly running out of time, jeremy, and I have to say this has been a fantastic way to finish our series on the first 90 to 100 days as a CFO. I guess I'm going to finish on the question what's next Once we get through and we get to the end of that journey? How do we, how do we start the next, the next part of the journey? Well, what should we be thinking about? Moving forwards?

Jeremy Earnshaw: 48:51

I have a particular preference for at least trying to have a structured next 12 months with action points and priorities, roles and responsibilities, and I appreciate it's not as easy as that. We can all talk a good game in having a 12-month plan, but I still think it's good to have at least a plan that we can structure the next 12 months around. So I'm now in that role of thinking what can we delegate? What are our set piece events coming up? So, again, as the number one in finance whatever the title of that role is what's coming up in the next 12 months and how do I work back from that entity structure or the ownership structure? I might well have a half year and a full year to manage. I will probably, although I've worked with organizations huge organizations, who don't do this. There's probably going to be a budget process. There's probably going to be a review of the half year budget plus the next six months process. There's probably a three-year strategy in place, maybe even a five-year strategy. There may well be a fundraise coming up. There may well be an exit process coming up. So I'm trying to have in my mind what are the set piece events of the next 12, maybe even 18 to 24 months that I have to be planning for as the leader in the finance organization and thinking about the impact on my peers in other disciplines as well.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 50:30

So, for example, I'm thinking about from a commercial side, how much visibility have I got, which influences cash and liquidity, of course, of my recurring revenues. Do I have a very short order book? Do I have contracts running off? I have coaching clients at the moment who have great contracts with public organizations but they have cessation dates. So there are tender processes and these are businesses that these contracts might be 10 or 12 or 14% of their revenue. So I'm wanting to know my commercial exposures to change the customers. Which of my customers go through a regular tender? Again, I'm just opening up my sphere of vision, I suppose is perhaps how I should call it to what's coming up, what do I need to contend with, what do I need to plan for going forward? And I'm also thinking again and maybe this is a useful coaching kind of angle I'm looking at myself, hopefully in the mirror and saying what am I missing? What?

Hannah Munro: 51:55

should I be learning and how should I be motivating my team? Amazing, well, that is a perfect way to end our 90 to 100 days as a new cfo series. Thank you so much, jeremy, for all of your insight and value, and obviously you've shared a lot of insight and value, um and in your. Your day job is as a, as a coach to c-suite executives. So if we want to learn more about what you do in the day-to-day if they've got on value from this podcast and want to learn more about what you do in the day to day, if they've got on value from this podcast, and want to learn more about you and your organization, how can they find out more.

Jeremy Earnshaw: 52:29

I'm very accessible on LinkedIn so you can find my profile. There's not too many people, if any, with the same name on LinkedIn me there and my banner headline talks about my non-executive work, but primarily my work as a coach and a mentor with organizations and individuals and teams, and my coaching and mentoring website is wwwclarendoncom and all of my information about how to engage further is on there. And I do actually have my own YouTube channel for my own videos and video shorts and my own podcast, which is youtubecom forward slash at Jeremy Earnshaw.

Hannah Munro: 53:19

But again, you'll find it if you search for my name and and that's how people can find me amazing and, of course, guys, we're going to make it really easy for you to find those links and they will all be in the show notes for this podcast. Thank you so much, jeremy, for joining on the show, and if you're listening to this and you've got questions that we haven't quite answered, or perhaps a particular challenge that you'd face and you'd'd love to get some advice on that, please do send through your questions, ideas for podcast topics. I'd love to hear from you. Please do reach out to me directly on LinkedIn and I will add it to our ever-growing list.

Hannah Munro: 53:56

Thanks again for listening to this podcast. Please leave us a review, like and share, and we'll see you next time on the CFO 4.0 podcast. One of the hardest things, I think, is actually putting into words what it means to work with myself and the team here at ITAS, because not only are we a financial transformation consultancy, but we do it using Sage technology. So rather than me tell you how awesome we are, let me introduce one of our customers.

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Working with ITAS has dramatically made our lives simpler because there's just such a knowledgeable team there to help us. Before we felt the consultants were working with another company. It was always a challenge to get information out to them for them to understand the problem and it just didn't feel like they we were working with at another company. It was always a challenge to get information out to them for them to understand the problem and it just didn't feel like they were on our team. Working with ITAS it's almost we feel like you are all employed with us to work with us to do it. It's an absolutely fantastic relationship and it's just made it such a smoother process and an absolute fun process working in Sage Intact and coming on our calls. I look forward to it now.