CFO 4.0 - The Future of Finance

49. What does the future of AI look like for finance teams moving forward - with Raj Harash, Director of Sales at YayPay

• Hannah Munro • Episode 49

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Talking to Hannah on this week’s CFO 4.0 podcast is Director of Sales at Yaypay, Raj Harash. 

Raj is a whizz at simplifying and streamlining processes. He says that he can make collecting money fast, easy and highly predictable by using inbuilt AI technology. 

The issue of non-payment can be a sticky one, but Raj believes it can all be avoided if the right tools and software is implemented.

Topics Covered

  • AI and Machine Learning in Finance
  • CRM and ERP software
  • Integrating Credit Control into the business
  • CCJ and bad payers
  • CFOs and automation
  • Forecasting and predicting financial models

Links referenced in this episode
First 90 days as a CFO: Ultimate Blueprint
Raise your game with Sage Intacct
Raj's LinkedIn
Sign up for our CFO Briefing and Podcast newsletters

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Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance. The CFO role is changing rapidly, moving from cost controller to strategic visionary. And with every change comes opportunity. We are here to help you take advantage of this transition to win at work, drive your career forwards and lead with confidence. Join Hannah Munro, Managing Director of ITAS, a financial transformation consultancy, as she interviews key experts to give you real-world advice and guidance on how to transform your processes, people, and data. Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance.

Hannah Munro:

Starting a new CFO role doesn't have to be daunting. So whether you are new to the role or just new to the company, our 90-day master plan will help you get off to the best possible start with a shared collection of research, advice and guidance inspired by the CFO 4.0 podcast. So what are you waiting for? So hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of CFO 4.0. I'm your host, Hannah Monroe, and with me today is Raj Harash from Yepe. Now, Raj and I, I have to say, have been working together for a little while now, and I was really interested to bring him on to talk about the future of AR and what that means, and some of the recent developments and the shifts we're seeing because of COVID. So Raj, it is fantastic to have you on the show. Thanks for joining us.

Raj Harash:

Thanks, Hannah. Fantastic to be here. I'm really looking forward to this.

Hannah Munro:

Absolutely. And so are we, to be fair, or so am I, I should say. So tell us a little bit about yourself, Raj. How did you end up doing what you're doing at Yeapo?

Raj Harash:

Yeah, well, I've been very fortunate. I spent actually seven years at Sage. And I started there and kind of started in the accountants division. I've always had a keen interest in understanding business, understanding finances and, you know, 20 years selling, promoting, implementing finance systems, you tend to get to know the different elements of it. But anyway, I worked my way up within Sage and came across an opportunity with the APAY, which is where I am at the moment as the Director of Sales for EMEA. And I looked at what they were doing and thought, The industry now is moving away, particularly within ERP, finance ERP, where historically finance ERP was a jack of all, should I say, and like a master of many, but not a master of one. Whereas the industry, the past two or three years, has moved now as the finance function, being the finance function, but having the best of breed solutions around that finance function because the integration is so great. So to answer your original question, Hannah, long-winded it may be, I saw YayPay, an accounts receivable platform. I could see what they were doing within the market. I was super excited. And the opportunity came along, and they asked me, and I asked them, and here we are today.

Hannah Munro:

It's funny how that happens, isn't it? All the best ones happen that way. So when we look at sort of the shift, because obviously the last 12 months has been a massive shift for businesses generally, but what impact has COVID, remote working had on AR and receivable teams? What is the sort of the conversations that you've been having with customers?

Raj Harash:

So unfortunately or fortunately, there's been winners and losers within the COVID spectrum. Some companies have gone through, you know, COVID has really helped. If you look at logistics, as an example, during lockdown, there was so many, myself and my family, we ordered everything online, you know. So they were the winners. The obvious verticals, such as hospitality companies, because of the lockdowns of bars and restaurants, they have been impacted quite badly within this. But what have we seen on the back of that? So a number of things, really. When companies did return back and there was a form of normality, what normality looks like, we still don't know at the moment. The conversation that we are having is around automation. So there seems to be a big focus, an extra focus. There was a focus prior to COVID, but I think the companies that hadn't adopted automation, that it really bought into light that they need to adopt automation now. The role of our roles have changed. You know, we certainly prior to COVID, I would spend easily five, six, eight, 10, 12, 14 hours in the car, you know, Now, I probably spend equally the same amount of time sitting in front of the desk on Zoom or team meetings, which means that the way we're communicating with people has changed. And that too, in the AR process. We have found that it's difficult for people who are collecting or chasing, I would say, debt, for them to get hold of customers or clients. So they've had to revert back to email. Now, if you're reverting back to email, there's an opportunity there to automate. And the other thing that we're finding now, well, there's two other things, really, is the chief financial officer is now looking at the bottom line thinking, I need to get these monies in. I need to get these monies in quickly, you know, because of what's happened in the past 12 to 18 months. And we've also seen quite a big shift in... companies adopting customer portals where they can help their customers self-serve their own invoicing. So to kind of couple all that together, what we found is that the accounts receivable process, yes, it's got a bit shrewder, and yes, it's got, I wouldn't say the word aggressive, but they've become, the cadences and the sequences going out are more popular, should I say. But because of the customer satisfaction and net promoter scores that most companies rely so heavily on, long gone are the days where you pick up the phone and say, give me the money. Now, the collections are part of the customer service journey. And it has to be in line with the values and the behaviors of what the C-suite are trying to promote. So those are the things that we've seen. Did that answer the question?

Hannah Munro:

Yeah, absolutely. And it was really interesting. I was reading a stat yesterday, in fact, about how 48% of companies are looking to actually accelerate their adoption of automation. And 78% is not looking to increase their spend over the next 12 months. So obviously, automation and that piece is driving it. And I think there's always been that fear, hasn't there, with accounts receivable, certainly when I'm speaking to customers around, you know, if how much of um credit control can we actually automate and i think one of the interesting things about covid is it's actually driven some of those increases in that like exactly what you said is because obviously it's become more email based that that's actually accelerating um the ability to automate it rather than it all being um what's the word All being sort of phone based. Yeah. So there was always a percentage that we couldn't automate historically. And I guess there's always a place, isn't there, for that sort of one-to-one personal chasing. Nothing beats getting a phone call, you know, because emails are so easily ignored. But, you know, being able to focus their attention on that, you know, that smaller percentage, that's obviously helping to streamline and reduce, you know, the days that an invoice is outstanding. Yeah.

Raj Harash:

Absolutely. But what we're finding is that certainly our software or any AR software, it's not there to replace... Any artificial intelligence and machine learning is not there to replace humans. It's there to aid and assist. And it's there to predict what's at risk for the future. And there's always going to be... an element of someone picking up the phone and saying, look, you haven't paid the invoice, et cetera, et cetera, and understanding what's gone wrong in terms of paying that invoice and sympathizing and empathizing as to why that invoice hasn't been paid. I'm afraid a bot can't do that. That's what a human does.

Hannah Munro:

And it's hard, isn't it? I guess because we talk about, like you say, That disconnect. And I've experienced it before. I've been on the other end of it sometimes when you have an amazing experience with a customer service team and then you get this really harsh chasing email that doesn't quite reflect, like you say, the brand or the style. So that's, I guess, where you've got to balance out the need for automation and perhaps some good wordsmithing on those emails with obviously the need to gather that To cash in and get it in. And how are you finding that clients are managing that balance? How do they get it right?

Raj Harash:

So it's a very good question. Unfortunately, you're going to have clients that just don't pay you. And your niceness is kind of... taken for granted. And we always like to think that's 1% of the client base. That's not the majority of your clients. What we've personally found is with the use of automation, yes, you can absolutely automate the invoicing. You can automate the Dunnings letters that go out. It's how you automate them. So let me give you an example. Many organizations, the finance teams tend to be completely separated to the rest of the business. So the finance team tend to be, nobody knows who they are. If you want a query, oh, I've got to send it to finance, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What we're finding is a shift within that. So a lot of our customers, they want the interaction between sales and finance. So as an example, if I'm chasing you, Hannah, and saying, Hannah, this 30-day invoice is due now, et cetera, et cetera. It's not the right customer journey if Hannah turns around and says, I'm sorry, Raj, but I've spoken to the account manager and they've extended the terms. Whereas the finance team don't know anything about it. So it's that communication that we're looking at that allows that better customer journey. But also what we're finding is that wouldn't it be great that when a new customer comes on board, the sales team, The salespeople are great. You know, this is what we're going to do for you. This is how we're going to do it. This is how we're going to do it. But using AI and using automation, you can automate an email, a simple email to say, dear Hannah, welcome on board. You know, I'm your finance representative with that. It's a tick box exercise. And it adds, as we mentioned before, to the net promoter score or the customer satisfaction score that you're looking to bring.

Hannah Munro:

There's an interesting piece there, isn't there, about where the role of credit control actually will sit in the future. Because from what we're talking about, so the that knowing that things are overdue and chasing things up and the credit controller just being that escalation point, is there, you know, and how important it is as part of the account management cycle as well. Is there a piece and have you seen a shift to credit control actually sitting with account managers within the organization?

Raj Harash:

Yes, we have seen a shift and we know several examples. So many organizations, they would, chase internally. And then when they don't get anywhere or they get to a certain point, they would ask the account manager to get involved. And it kind of, I wouldn't say leaves a bitter taste in the account manager's mouth, but the account manager is there to cross sell and upsell. That's what their role is. And they need, it is great when they can resolve the credit control issue. But if you use AI, artificial intelligence, correctly, you can mitigate the risk prior to the event happening. So as an example, certainly, I won't say yeah, but as an example, you've got within certain, so certainly within our system, you've got credit ratings based upon each company. So part of the artificial intelligence and machine learning capabilities is understanding payments. So let's take an example. Let's just say I've got company ABC and they pay me regularly on time as a credit controller. I know that, you know. The artificial intelligence, because it's learning the payment history, it may turn around and say, look, yes, ABC Limited does pay you on time, but be careful because the past 10, 15 invoices, they've slipped outside the 30 days and they're paying in 35 days. No major alarms, just pay. making you aware. Now, let's flip that coin the other side. Let's just say you've got a company that are constantly paying you sub 90 days, post 90 days. Now, for me, that's a decision needs to be made. So why do they pay over 90 days? Is it a process internally that we need to look at? Or are they just poor payers? It normally tends to be poor payers. So what do we want to do with that account? Do we want to ask 50% upfront? Do we want to remove that account? That account may be very strategically important for us. So what AI allows you to do is that it aids the credit controller as well as the account manager to make those decisions prior to that event happening and having data to back those decisions up.

Hannah Munro:

So I love that concept of AI. So for those that are listening, we talked a few times about AI and artificial intelligence on the podcast, and it's amazing how embedded it's becoming to day-to-day processing within finance without people even realizing. And that constant shift, that constant learning. What other uses is there for AI, particularly around accounts receivable? What other things could happen in the next couple of years that you think are particularly exciting?

Raj Harash:

Yeah, that's a great question. So with the likes of open banking coming in, companies tend to, at the moment, tend to wait three, four days before, at least a couple of days before the monies are being hit into the bank account. With open banking, that would be instant. So that's a really exciting opportunity. trend that's happening and how that relates to AI, you can then start forecasting what company's gonna, when the company's going to hit your bank account, when it's not, even though that data is already available. Another really interesting fact, particularly within artificial intelligence and machine learning, is that you can actually predict when the payment or when that invoice is gonna be paid. I can also fast forward 30, 60, 90, 120, 150 days. And I would say about 98% accuracy. I can tell you what's in your bank account, what's not, what's promised to be paid, et cetera, et cetera. So it's really exciting in terms of what artificial intelligence is unlocking. And in the future, I think a lot of decisions are going to be made based upon the intelligence that has been gathered that allows you to predict the future. And they won't be far off. I'd give a tolerance of 1% either way.

Hannah Munro:

Because it's based, and I guess that's the shift, isn't it? And a lot of it's based on past behaviors. So do you think there's a piece where more factors will start coming into AI? Because if you think about COVID and what impact that's had on a company's ability to pay their bills, do you think there's a wider implication, if we think just specifically about AR, about bringing in external data sets to change the way that we're actually looking at this kind of data?

Raj Harash:

Yeah, so again, you know, it's a great point that you make there. It's already happening. If you have a look at any mid-size organization, the role of the business analyst is becoming more and more demanding, you know, and it's becoming more and more common as well. With the use of artificial intelligence, that helps them and aids their job within that. So what we found is certainly through our development is We can now understand if a company has got a CCJ against them, how we can alert our users to say, look, ABC Limited have recently had a CCJ. What do you want to do? We won't do stuff for you. What we do is give you options. Or what AI does, it gives you options. It gives you options as to say, this is what we recommend that you do. But ultimately, the decision is yours. And the decision that you make is based upon meaningful data.

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Hannah Munro:

and I think that's it is that a lot of times decisions are made on conversations and feelings, aren't they? And I've read a crazy stack, we talk about it a lot, something like 48% of CFOs actually make decisions based on gut instinct rather than actual data purely. And it's not because they don't want to. And I think that's the interesting piece. It's the lack of availability. And I think that's a really interesting point. It's about surfacing that information so that, you know, those that are making decisions can make better ones and in a quicker timeframe. Because you'd have to go out searching for every single customer for a CCJ in this example, wouldn't you? If you wanted to know about it, it's not something that's easily... surfaceable unless you're using technology to do it.

Raj Harash:

No, and with the AI and, again, we talk about AI and ML, you tend to get a picture in terms of if you've got a new customer that you're bringing on board, what their payment patterns are prior, you know. So, again, decisions can be made upfront whether you want to offer 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, or, indeed, you want 50% upfront or seven days net, you know. It's a conversation, and it's something to put your foot forward on. Look, we've seen historical evidence that suggests that these are the terms that we want to offer. Then it's down to the business to decide, no, we'll take that risk, fully knowing that they've done their due diligence on the back of it, and they can justify their decision that they've taken that risk purely because of They needed the account for strategic reasons, or it could be as simple as they're best friends with the CEO.

Hannah Munro:

Yeah, but at least you know why they're making the decision, hey? And it's made on good data. So if we go back to a point, a really interesting point you made earlier about almost like the rise of self-serve credit control, because this is a big shift, isn't it? We're so used to, you know, and some people apparently still send paper-based invoices, which I've always been amazed at. So I'm sure there's stacks of paper-based invoices sitting in people's letterboxes over COVID. But tell us a little bit about the rise of sort of customer portals and how those are being used with AR teams to support growth and to drive improvements.

Raj Harash:

Yeah, so we've, again, another big shift that we've seen. If we take our own, you know, if we ignore the business-to-business market, just a business-to-consumer market, take my own personal situation with myself, again, Historically, I always used to pay my electricity bill. It used to come through the door. It was a paper-based copy. I'd either bring them up, pay it via credit card, debit card, or give them a fax transfer. It was really interesting. About 18 months to 24 months ago, when they said, we'll give you 5% discount if you move online. And we're finding the same shift with business-to-business customers. So the customer portal, customers are actually... Dare I say it, customers don't like to speak to people now, or I don't say they like to speak to people. If they can do everything on a click of a button, they will. And that aids back into the CFO's automation piece. So customer portals we're finding, it allows the person who's providing the service, the company that's providing the service, it allows their customers to self-serve. So Again, we've done so much research on this, but the majority of time spent, a majority of credit controllers' time spent was sending out duplicated invoices. Now, via a customer portal, they don't need to do that because they can go into a customer portal and download that invoice themselves. They can make the payment via a customer portal. So what we're finding, those touch points before, it was an excuse not to pay. But with a customer portal, you are eliminating that excuse. But also, it's helping the customers as well because they may have lost the invoice. Something may have happened within that, but they know they've got their own dedicated portal to go into and view within that. Also, what we're finding is... certainly via the use of the customer portal. If there is a dispute, it's all logged and you've got the complete audit trail without searching through all of your emails. Which email did I send it through? Did I send it through a personal one? Who did I copy in? Et cetera, et cetera. So that's what we're finding certainly within the customer portal. We're finding that companies are increasing their net promoter score and their customer satisfaction score based upon that.

Hannah Munro:

So And I guess there's a piece around speed of response, isn't there? Whereas, you know, if we think about the world of flexible working, where we might not be working nine to five, we might be working from anywhere in the globe. I guess that adds another piece in that it's an always-on service. You're not actually having to wait for somebody to rock up at 8 a.m. in the morning to get a response.

Raj Harash:

Yes, yeah, absolutely. So what we're finding, certainly, if you break down the tiers, as we call them, in terms of turnover. We are finding that the larger enterprises, they are centralizing a lot of their finance functions. So where it may be 9 o'clock in the UK, it's certainly not 9 o'clock where the centralized function is. So they need automation to help them do that. But also, they need to sympathize with the client that's requesting it. that as well. And that's where the polite automation kicks in. So in terms of larger corporates, we're seeing the centralization of accounts receivable teams. So Europe tends to be in charge of Europe. So somewhere within Europe, you'll have a centralized team. And then segmented again to Middle East, segmented again to Africa. So we're finding a lot of that. We're also finding... Companies that are looking to grow, one of the first questions I always ask, how are you growing? Are you going to grow by, are you growing organically or are you growing by acquisition? And the companies that are on a severe trajectory, they tend to grow by acquisition. So if you've got an AR process built in, it allows you to lift and shift that company into your process without adding to additional headcount, but still not compromising the in terms of the customer journey and the customer satisfaction that you want to give to your clients.

Hannah Munro:

And I think that's a really good shout out because obviously an acquisition can bring in a big outstanding debtors list that you need to scale up and get on top of pretty quick. So I guess what we're saying there is the ability to just literally plug and like you say, lift and shift that into your current process. It's going to have a massive impact. And we work with a lot of companies that are on an acquisition spree and they don't always think, they assume, I guess, that at some point they'll streamline. But I think what you're saying is there is actually the timeframe to all to make incoming acquisitions could be a lot quicker if you've got those pre-built processes rather than relying on people.

Raj Harash:

Absolutely. What we found is the CFO that understands having a good finance system and having best of breed around them tend to scale more quickly than the CFO that says, I'll deal with that later.

Hannah Munro:

And we talk a lot, obviously, about the concept of best of breed and how that impacts. And I think that's a really interesting concept because there is a fear of, what's the words, of having separate systems. But I guess that's another thing we've just got to shout out is that integration is not importing spreadsheets and passing stuff manually from one to the other. When we're talking best of breed, we're talking about API, direct integration, real-time information. So I think that's always an interesting point is that there is this lack of awareness of how integrated some systems really are.

Raj Harash:

Yeah, absolutely. So it's, I mean, coming from the world that I came from, as I mentioned before, I would say about five years ago, it was very much, you know, let's build this process into our existing ERP. But now it's not like that. And I think the market has matured and intelligence has come in. Salespeople are not finance people. Finance people are not salespeople. The best CRMs of this world are tailored towards salespeople. The best finances systems of this world are tailored towards finance people. So have the best of the breed use the best systems. Because the integration now is, well, it's second to none. So we've integrated many providers within that and we will continue to do so as well.

Hannah Munro:

Yeah. And I think it's that if you think about your phones, how many apps, it's crazy the amount of apps that you have on your, even just your personal. And isn't it interesting that finance and finance, like business technologies are only starting to get to the point where we're working on the same model in that, you know, we're not all using like the different apps for the different purposes. So yeah, I think we could probably do a whole podcast on the rise of best of breed finance. Very fair, Raj. But let's not get distracted let's get on back onto the reasons that we had today I guess my final question for you more from a sort of a practical perspective those CFOs that are looking to you know to revise their and streamline their processes what are the little hints and tips that you can give them regardless I guess of what technology they've got about how they can optimize that processes what are the must-haves that every every organization should have in place when it comes to credit control

Raj Harash:

That's a really good question. First and foremost, the systems that some companies have at the moment, they're not being used fully. I come across so many companies because of my background in accounts. I'm fascinated at how they do a bank reconciliation, and it's alarming that someone actually prints off a bank statement, then keys in those figures, into a finance system and then looks for the invoice and then marries them off, you know? There's so much easier ways of doing that. And I think what CFOs should look to do is to provide training for their staff in terms of just looking at ways they're doing stuff at the moment and see how you can get best of breed out or streamline or, you know, just get quicker at because I guarantee you that if you're doing something a certain way, that's the only way you know how to do it. They would not look outside the box and it's not their roles or responsibilities to look outside the box. That's the role and responsibility of the CFO. So that's the first thing that I found. Many of the systems are underutilized within that. Then you can flip the coin on the other side Some systems are so overutilized that they've developed processes around that system. So because the system doesn't do what it wants to do, they've developed a process around that. Take a look back, streamline again. A lot of the customers, you will know this, Hannah, many CFOs come to you and say, I want a vanilla out-of-the-box solution. As soon as you start talking about process... We don't do it that way. You need to go back to the original brief. You said vanilla out of the box. So let me tell you the process. You either adopt that approach or you adopt the minor bespoke approach. You don't adopt the fully bespoke approach because you're not fixing the problem.

Hannah Munro:

Do you know, it's really interesting the amount of conversations I end up challenging. Half the time, it's not even finance. It's actually some person saying, way of you know in a different department it's built this process that like everything else is hanging off of you know the amount of conversations i have about oh we can't send invoices straight out because we're not sure if the pricing is right well how have you got to a point where you're producing invoices and you haven't agreed pricing you know and actually like exactly what you said taking it that step back and challenging so what does good look like what does this how do we simplify these processes and where are the bottlenecks and actually challenging where you know where where they've come from. And sometimes it's just that they haven't sorted earlier parts of the process or people aren't willing to follow the right processes earlier on. Yeah, and there's a whole change management piece. But, you know, very often exactly what you said, what we'll find is that they've just done it all. They've always done it that way. And because they're so busy in the midst of coping with this massive volume that they've got, they don't have a chance to even sit back and think about it. And that's the crazy thing.

Raj Harash:

It is. They are drowning in terms of the admin. And again, it goes down to automation. And it goes down to artificial intelligence. It goes down to the bot. Let the bot help you. Let the artificial intelligence tool help you. They're not there to replace you because you're irreplaceable. But let the tools do the stuff. as in send out the emails for you. So as a credit controller, you come in in the morning, first thing in the morning, you know your accounts that you need to prioritize. The system has already done it for you, which makes you more focused, which adds to the NPS score, adds to you loving your employer even more because instead of working from eight to eight, you're now working from nine to five and you're having several coffee breaks and an extended lunch. In between, and they're still more efficient.

Hannah Munro:

Yeah, and hey, you know, this is the rise of the four-day week coming through. And that's, again... That's a whole different conversation about the rise of the four-day week in finance. So, well, thank you so much, Raj, for taking the time to talk to us today. And it's been, you know, it's been fascinating to hear your stories and what questions and challenges you're seeing out when you're speaking to customers. So if anyone listens to this podcast, wants to learn more about you, obviously yourself and YayPay and what you guys do, what's the best way to get hold of you?

Raj Harash:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you can email me directly. My email address is Raj. Sorry, let me go again. The email address is r.harash, spelled H-A-R-A-S-H, at Quadient, Q-U-A-D-I-E-N-T.com. And I'll explain what Quadient means in a minute. And also, if you'd like to know more about Yeapay, simply www.yeapay.com. The reason my email address is Quadion. Last year, YAPEI, two major things happened last year. First and foremost, the IDC granted YAPEI as the market leader in accounts receivable due to our artificial intelligence and machine learning platform. Once we were granted within that, there was inundated requests for companies to actually buy us. And we were bought by a company called Quadium. Now, just to give you a very quick background about Quadium, not many people know who they are, but Quadium was formerly known as Neopost. So everybody, most people know who Neopost are. They provide mailroom equipment to many organizations across the globe. And the reason why they bought YayPay was because part of that digital transformation. They want to digitize the mailroom. So Coding have bought us, who are an accounts receivable platform, and also an accounts payable platform as well. So we fit part of the family and we can give you a complete end-to-end solution.

Hannah Munro:

Hey, that's an interesting fact. I don't think I knew that one. So thanks, Raj. So to put this in context, obviously, as we've been working with Raj and the team at Yepe around AR solutions for the stage solutions that we work with. And hence the reason I sort of invited her on the podcast, because we do chat a lot, don't we, Raj, when we're talking about customers, et cetera. So it was great to have an opportunity to talk about it on the podcast. Well, thank you so much, Raj. And as usual, for any of our listeners who like to learn more we'll pop some links into the show notes um and would love any feedback you have on this session or any of the others we've done recently we're great to get any ideas or questions you might have for future podcasts so thanks again guys take care and we'll speak to you soon

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