McCartney In Goal
McCartney In Goal is a monthly podcast that debates and dissects the greatest albums of popular rock music. Hosted by David Hughes, and fellow judges, Brett and Steve Sumner, each episode the McCartney In Goal team pick a rock or pop music album that they love and put the songs through an imaginary competitive style-knock out format to find the best song on the album. At times, they may be uninformed, biased and they are often a bit unruly. Come and listen in on the fun - and if you enjoy it, TELL A FRIEND!!! Twitter - https://twitter.com/mccartneyin Website - https://mccartneyingoal.com
McCartney In Goal
1989 (Taylor's version) (Taylor Swift)
Episode 49: 1989 (Taylor's version) (Taylor Swift). McCartney In Goal is the podcast that debates the great albums of pop music, using a competitive knock-out format. Today we’re discussing, 1989 (Taylor's version) which was a re-recording of the fifth studio album by Taylor Swift. It was released on 27 October 2023.
Unlock the story behind Taylor Swift's pop transformation from country darling to pop royalty with the latest spirited debate "track by track" by the McCartney In Goal team. The album includes loads of hits including "Welcome to New York", Blank Space, Wildest Dreams, Shake It Off, Bad Blood and Style.
At the end of the showdown, the team will crown the ultimate 'best song' of "1989." Will the infectious beat of "Shake It Off" claim the top spot, or does the timeless elegance of "Style" reign supreme? Tune in and listen as we declare the definitive anthem of Taylor Swift's pop conquest, all the while weaving in playful trivia and humorous asides that guarantee to entertain Swifties and music buffs alike.
Twitter - https://twitter.com/mccartneyin
Website - https://mccartneyingoal.com/
Welcome to McCartney and Gold podcast, where we discuss an awesome album, take its songs and pick them against one another in a knockout style format. What album are we doing this month? Well, I'm kind of imagining a lot of people will be coming to this podcast for the first time, drawn by the bright lights of Taylor Swift. So welcome to new podcast. It's been waiting for you. If there's been a blank space in your life, hopefully we've got the style to help you shake it off. I mean, all you had to do was stay and after that terrible set of puns, I wish you would Tonight we're going to party like it's 1989. I'm your host, brett, and I'm joined by my three guests sitting in Contrary Corner. The man who puts the cons into Contrary it's David Hughes. Hey, hey, hey. Next to him is the fellow who puts the rant into intolerant it's Stephen Sumner.
Speaker 3:Good evening to you all on the same note Lovely.
Speaker 1:And lastly, our special guest, one half of GXL Music, genius producer and also the youngest person on the pod tonight, the man who puts the pert into expert. It's Guy Langley. Thank you very much. So tonight we're going to be doing Taylor's version of 1989. We're going to be doing the songs up until Clean. So it goes from New York to Clean those 13 songs. So, chaps, are we excited to be doing an album from the 21st century?
Speaker 4:It's very rare for us.
Speaker 1:So I won't get a vote tonight. Dave, guy and Steve, you're going to have the vote, so I'm just going to be hosting. Okay, so we're getting into our first round. You ready, yep. Yes, welcome welcome to New York versus I Know Places. I Know Places.
Speaker 2:For me it's a very easy decision. They're both Ryan Teder tunes. When I say tunes I mean produced by Ryan Teder. I think this album is quite as I'm sure we'll get into is quite infamous for taking a country artist and going the full on pop route and it was really interesting to see who she kind of employed the services of really to kind of enhance her songwriting. And when I say they're Ryan Teder songs I purely mean, you know he co-collaborated with her. She's very much a driving force and actually always has been.
Speaker 1:But there were a lot of producers on this work. There she works with a lot of different producers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there were kind of four main different groups really. Ryan Teder is his own kind of entity, there's Max Martin and Shellback, and then there's Jack Antonoff and there's also, I think, nathan Chapman, her long-running sort of country buddy.
Speaker 1:I think Imogen Heep as well. Oh yes, Imogen Heep.
Speaker 2:I forgot yeah, which is kind of a bit of an outlier, that track.
Speaker 4:But so of all of them, which were the Swedish heavy metal influences that are all over this album? Well, yeah, funnily enough.
Speaker 2:Max Martin and Shellback are both. You know. They come from a world of power, ballads and rock. That's their kind of upbringing, and what they've managed to achieve is nothing other than sort of incredible. Really, since they came into music in the late 90s through to now, they're involved in every big pop artist.
Speaker 1:In the producer WhatsApp groups that you must be long to guy, I'm presuming there's just like a big WhatsApp group for all the producers in the world. I mean, we're not that organised to me yeah what's the kind of opinion amongst all those producers that? How successful is Max Martin? Are they like? Is he one of the? Yeah, he's the best.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he is the pinnacle really. He's probably the most successful songwriter of our generation. For sure there might be one or two that have had a similar kind of hot sort of minute really for a couple of decades, in places like there's Dr Luke and there's Timbaland. There's a couple of other people like Pharrell as well, I think have had long careers in different ways, but Max Martin is just a different animal in my view. He continues that legacy of Swedish melodic pop.
Speaker 1:A fine legacy from ABBA to the Hives, to Max Martin Exactly. Dave, what are you thinking about these two songs?
Speaker 4:I mean welcome to New York is intended consciously to be like a statement of where she wants to go. I know places. It's not one of the stronger ones for me on this album. It's about, lyrically, it's about running from unnamed predators trying to pursue a couple in a relationship, so it sounds like a paparazzi song to me. It's good. It's good, but not the most interesting thing on the album.
Speaker 3:Oh, I mean, I hate to say this, but I agree with everything Dave said.
Speaker 1:Oh, you didn't agree with Dave. I did agree with Dave. Come on, that's a USP.
Speaker 3:It's very upsetting because not only do I have the same opinion of the songs, but I agree that it does. I know places comes across as a bit of a sort of paparazzi whinge. It's perfectly acceptable, but I'm a big, big sucker for welcome to New York on a couple of levels, again irritatingly agreeing with Dave about the whole statement thing, and I mean that's well known to be fair. But yeah, I know places has to go here, surely?
Speaker 1:Guy hasn't been waiting for you. Yeah, welcome to New York for me and Steve, is that a three?
Speaker 3:It is a three-nil.
Speaker 1:That's uh, welcome to New York. Goes through to the quarter finals. So the next round is Wildest Video Game Dreams versus how you Get the Girl.
Speaker 4:Wildest Video Game Dreams. So that must be a reference to.
Speaker 1:Lana Del Rey. There we go. It sounds a bit similar to me, is it not? To anyone else?
Speaker 2:It's very yeah, it's very much of that world Cinematic swoon to it.
Speaker 1:It's got that whole thing he even talks about dresses. Both of them got reference to summer dresses and summer they kind of.
Speaker 3:Oh, taylor Swift does love a summer dress reference, though, doesn't she? She really does that's, so that comes up a lot. It's, it's. I'm fascinated endlessly by how much sex there is in Taylor Swift songs, and yet it's always kind of all-american sex. It's very nice, wholesome. I've got red lipstick on and that nice dress. You like sex rather than like filth, but there's loads of it. It's like a really interesting juxtaposition.
Speaker 4:It's like rather than AC DC sex, you mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or like really, really wholesome, without you ever sort of coming out the end of an album thinking, oh, I feel a bit dirty now.
Speaker 1:Is this a love album? I mean, a lot of the songs are about love, aren't they?
Speaker 2:I think it's a bit of that. I think it's also her playing with the perception of her quite a lot lyrically. There's a lot of talking about press and where she is, what people write about her, and that's why I think it resonates and why she's always resonated.
Speaker 1:She's almost airing her dirty laundry in coded little ways, there's a lot of self-consciousness about it, which is redolent of modern fame, isn't it?
Speaker 3:I would say self, not to correct you, but just I think it's self-awareness rather than self-consciousness, because self-conscious feels like she's uptight about it, but I think she's not. It's beautiful, she's like self-aware Good.
Speaker 1:Thanks, sir. By the way, new listeners. Steve is an English teacher, so I've just been, I've literally been schooled. But how you get the girl is probably the least modern pop of all the songs in this album. It just feels more bubblegum pop to me.
Speaker 4:Yeah the beat. It sounds like sort of 80s, 90s pop. But that's fine, I like it, it's nice.
Speaker 2:And wildest dreams. That, for me, is my yeah, I love that song out of those two. I think that's her trying something different vocally. I think it's really cinematic and it's really. It really stands out, it's really refreshing. Whereas how you get the girl sounds, yeah, it sounds like a Swedish pop song Insert artist here kind of almost. It sounds a bit like a One Direction song to me. It's kind of got that sort of energy and that drive.
Speaker 4:Well, early Brit, which was Max Martin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and as a result it sounds a tiny bit dated almost, whereas Wildest Dreams kind of, doesn't it? It sort of sonically sounds great and as a song and hearing a thing like that, I think it really stands up, okay, steve.
Speaker 3:I think how you get the girl is probably going out here. So I would like to talk for the first time about a Taylor Swift signature thing that happens a lot in this song, which is the which I reference in my introduction Hello, which is the same note melodies, which is a massive Taylor Swift thing and I'm endlessly fascinated by it. It's like again, it's like if you sort of use any technique, whether it's in literature or music or anything else, if you use repetition because you can't think what else to do, your audience will know. But if you use repetition as a deliberate tool, that also you know your audience will feel it. And she seems to, because I dug into this quite a lot. She seems to use the single note melodies and that's how you get the girl goes up a little bit, but I mean, you know it's the start of that really really close, almost single note melody and in some other songs, but it really is all on the same note and it seems to be a thing that she does to try and get the lyric across so that you focus on the lyric rather than on the melody. And also she fixes it a lot of the time, fixes inverted commas by doing harmonies around it so that you listen to the lyric, because the lyrics on the same note but the harmonies give it a sort of lushness.
Speaker 3:I'm endlessly fascinated by it. I think it's a really interesting technique and again, the comparison, weirdly, is that I always come back to a synaptra because she seems to be doing this thing of I want the lyric to be heard and to be foregrounded. And I want to tell you a story. I'm not doing a Mick Jagger exile on Main Street, muddy, you know, mix it in the background Doesn't really matter what I'm saying, it's absolutely a Frank Sinatra. Here's a story. I want you to hear it and I think that's what the same note thing seems to be about. But I'm really fascinated by it.
Speaker 2:Is that that is indicative of modern pop. The lyric has become really front and center, especially in American artists, where hip hop is such a huge influence in contemporary pop, I think it's it's become even more relevant and powerful and impactful to have the lyrics as a as a as a star of the show, and that in Taylor's been an artist that's really taking that to the next level. And you know, like Steve said, it makes you listen and it makes you explore. But I'm waiting for Wilder's Dreams.
Speaker 4:Dave, yeah, I'm voting for Wilder's Dreams.
Speaker 3:Oh, lots of consensus this evening.
Speaker 1:This is this is wildly exciting with three, three, three nils going through, okay so. So the next round is this love a ballad versus all you had to do was stay a pop banger.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it is, isn't. It is a pop task, it is a lot of pop bangers.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is. I didn't ask you at the start, so I'm going to ask you kind of halfway through how does this album sit for you? I mean, it's a huge pop album, is it not? It's got such strength in debt.
Speaker 4:It's massively important, this album to me and my life, because I've got teenage daughters, which I've mentioned before on the podcast, and this is something that we can share together this album. We played it a lot in the car as they were growing up, and particularly this album, yeah, particularly this album. Reds as well, and I think this is so poppy, this album, that no matter where you fall on the music spectrum, whatever your personal preferences are, almost anyone can get into this album because it's so catchy and accessible. So my girls love it, I love it, their mum loves it, and we all come from different musical preferences, but we can all converge on this album.
Speaker 3:Her record company sort of said oh, please, please, please, put at least two or three, maybe just even two country tracks on this.
Speaker 1:Get a bit of fiddle on there.
Speaker 3:You're a country artist, but what are you doing? You're going to alienate your whole audience. And she said this brilliant phrase. She said if you chase two rabbits, you lose both of them.
Speaker 2:Having said that I think this love is is a country song that they've tried to just add a couple of synths to it. I think it sounds like it.
Speaker 3:I completely agree with that. I think it sounds like it was written as a country song. I still think it's trying to remove the country from it.
Speaker 1:We've passionately argued for her being an absolute superstar and saying Fuck it, don't worry, let's do it. And then you've just said but actually, having said that, this love is a country song.
Speaker 3:Yeah, amazing In structure. It does feel like one. Yes, but any country instrumentation has been removed from it. Okay.
Speaker 2:Apart from the acoustic guitars. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:I love this love. I think it sounds like another cinematic one, a bit like Wilder Streams, and I feel like this love could have finished the album.
Speaker 3:Yes, agreed.
Speaker 1:This love? Are you voting for this love, dave? Is it that love that you're voting for?
Speaker 4:I am.
Speaker 1:We might have some dissension. Finally, vague Possibility of excitement, guy, what you're voting for.
Speaker 2:What's our ship against?
Speaker 1:Oh my, goodness, all you had to do was stay, guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all you had to do.
Speaker 1:Please, please, stay.
Speaker 2:We need to finish the podcast You're getting this, this love from this, this love for me. Like I said it, I just it feels a little bit hedging your bets as a Production and as a song.
Speaker 1:Okay, steve, you've got casting vote. This is almost exciting.
Speaker 3:Okay, all you had to do is stay. Is is again another classic example of the one note thing. Except she fixes the one note thing here by going all you had to do was and then goes up to the octaves day. It's like, oh okay, you're doing the same note but you've gone up an octave for it, which is it is an interesting one. Again she's playing that game. I'm interested in it, I like it. But I have to say this love gets my vote here, much as it sickens me to agree with Dave over guy.
Speaker 1:I was hoping to go with guy here, but you know you were trying to be down with the kids in a bit cool, but you've had to go with Understand.
Speaker 3:About it, but I just love the melody, I love the lyric, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:I'd voted with guy, obviously. But yeah, sorry guy, I've invited you into my own personal nightmare, which is having to deal with these two on a on a monthly basis and their outrageous decisions for someone. I just needed to set up a self-help group, really, so you're just been invited on To go through this process to then empathize with me. Okay, next, that goes through. So this love goes through to the quarter finals. So the next round keep it clean. It's clean versus the massive banger that is out of the woods. Oh, oh, oh yeah, I think I'm finally clean.
Speaker 4:Oh Well, clean is what actually finishes the album. It is a great way to finish the album. I think it's a great song.
Speaker 1:I thought you would.
Speaker 4:I think it's very confident lyric writing in it as well. So in it she's comparing getting over a relationship to recovering from an addiction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the teaming up with image and heap is a is not only artistically great, but it's also quite shrewd and clever in terms of positioning her and giving her a bit of depth and a bit of artistry.
Speaker 1:Really, that she's a very who's image in heap Imaging here.
Speaker 2:I mean I'll be. I'll be frankly honest, I don't know that much about her in terms of her story. I know obviously the big song Hide and Seek, which has been sampled many a time, very famous for using vocoders and harmonizers and being a kind of electronic influence sort of folk artists, I guess you say on a very yeah but that's, that's doing it probably a disservice, because I know a lot of people that you know Obsess over her stuff and she has such a plethora of work.
Speaker 2:It's she's, again, someone you would not expect a pop artist to be able to collaborate with On the same album at this time. Anyway, as as max martin, it's a kind of it's very much two ends of the spectrum, which is quite interesting, I think, and I think Cleanser great, the great result of that.
Speaker 1:Okay, steve, what are you feeling? Are you out of the wood yet? Are you loving? Being again loving some forest bathing.
Speaker 3:Again out of the woods. It's happening again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but the backing vocals are immense. On that it's absolutely. Again, it's not me.
Speaker 3:It's not me complaining. I am not.
Speaker 2:I am not making good complaint, I think well.
Speaker 3:I'm just endlessly fascinated by it. I mean, I'm fascinated by how much she's prepared to use it and how much she does with it it's, it's and how you can still make something so catchy. This is really hard for me. I like both of these a lot. I'm gonna go out of the woods because I like clean. I think clean is a good ending, but it occupies a similar space to this love, which I just voted for, so I'm gonna take clean out of there and, yeah, go out the woods.
Speaker 1:Nice. Oh god, dave, what are you voting for? I'm voting for clean, of course you are. That's why I waited to get what's went to you first, and now I'm going to the decider. Guy, that's good hosting. Give it to me, guy, your vote.
Speaker 2:So, as much as I love clean, I think it's it's got a real depth to it.
Speaker 1:Out of the woods is just If you had never brought the words, I have come running.
Speaker 2:I know, I think you would have suffered.
Speaker 1:I know, I know of course you're voting for out of the woods. It's immense, it's absolutely huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they have the albums of. You know she wanted to make this 80s big pop. You know reference album, which is, you know, an era where people ditched traditional instruments and picked up you know, weird ones and new technologies and layering of vocals and I think this song in particular is this one where she's really re embracing that and playing with vocal layering and yeah, just, it's just yeah.
Speaker 1:Adam and would be proud of this, wouldn't he guy? He'd absolutely love it.
Speaker 2:He would indeed he'd love a bit of vocal layering he does.
Speaker 3:What do you think of her as a singer people? I think that's a fascinating discussion as well.
Speaker 1:Well, I've got a producer here, I've got a singer also, that's you, steve, and then I've got Dave.
Speaker 4:So let's go to Dave first, would you reckon her voice has changed over the years and that's shown up in the tailors versions where you can literally compare young Taylor singing to Modern Taylor singing and it hear the difference in her voice.
Speaker 3:I prefer the new voice. By the way, I think she sounds like a woman of the world, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think Taylor sits in a position where she's not the biggest powerhouse vocalist, but she doesn't need to be, because that's not what she's about and that's not what she's singing about, and that's not.
Speaker 1:No, but she probably has the most powerful connection with her fans, doesn't she? Which?
Speaker 4:is absolutely how do you describe her voice? It's a good question really, because I think that is it. Is it even that distinctive?
Speaker 2:not, not necessarily, but it is only only in the sort of what she sings about, a when and how she conducts herself, not only in the song but in her personal life. It's, yeah, it's not. It's not a very distinctive, you know on paper, distinctive vocal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 1:By. Imagine she'd be a joy to work with as a producer. She just turned up be super pro, oh yeah almost zero on to rise, just nail every take.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think she, you know she, she knows what she wants, I think she'll. She'll know harmony, she'll know Arrangements, she would know like everything in a career. It's her driving it. It's not, she's not riding on other people's coattails. They're there to sort of improve what she's already thought of coming to the studio to work on.
Speaker 2:And you know, I think that's a good example is the bonus tracks on this record actually, which I think is, without going on too much of a tangent, is quite incredible really, because when the original album came out, there were three bonus tracks and they were all the voice memos from the writing sessions and they were her presenting the songs to like Max Martin and Shellback and singing them. You know, singing blank space pretty much in its entirety. It's you know all. And they were adding little bits of, you know, backing vocals and little kind of Embellishments. But essentially it was her debuting this song to them and it's, it's, it's all her really. It's her driving it and it's them Feeding off that and but giving us some more ideas and some more colors to play with. But it's, it's her outline, it's her drawing that they're sort of, they're filling in really.
Speaker 1:Wow, do you?
Speaker 3:realize that I have to say that the the bit where, the bit where we were joking about it before, with a bit where he said that she's not got a very distinctive vocal, that's the sort of shit you would have shut down if I'd said it. It's like when, I suggest Ringo Stowe isn't an amazing drummer, it's like, and everyone goes to pieces.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I would never say that the world ends.
Speaker 3:Yes, and you know it's like. You know, I would definitely said not a distinctive vocal, perfect for what she's doing and she's distinctive in like a hundred other ways. But but that is not a particularly distinctive vocal. So I agree with you guys. Well done for reading out my script.
Speaker 1:It's alright, yeah, the last qualifying round. Bad blood versus. I wish you would. Wish you right here, right now, oh, oh.
Speaker 3:Oh, that was that was. It's one of the few songs now that's about a different kind of relationship, isn't it? Because she had a? Falling out who's it is. You have a falling out with another female singer. Wasn't I forget the Name?
Speaker 1:Katy Perry? Was it Nicki Minaj? Was it a Katy Perry?
Speaker 3:It was Katy.
Speaker 1:Perry, I thought you were guessing it. That was your guessing tone. Your wife actually just kept saying Nicki Minaj didn't know how much longer.
Speaker 3:It was just my assessment of your tone of voice, but so now look like a knob, so let's move on. Yeah, I like that blood. I think that blood's good, so I think it's.
Speaker 1:It's got a good beats. It's one for the dance floor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I don't think. I don't think I wish you would is as strong I think I wish you would. I think is it in the second half of the album tracks seven yes, I think the first half of this album is pretty much unassailable. And then and then second half is really really strong.
Speaker 3:But not quite as strong, and I think I wish you would is An example of that. You know, is it still really strong? Yes, it's just. There are things that are in strong. I like bad blood. I'm gonna write for bad blood just because I think it's interesting to have you know. It's still a relationship album, but it's a different type of relationship. So, yeah, I like it Okay.
Speaker 4:Dave, well, yeah, obviously, obviously bad blood If that's one of the big things.
Speaker 1:obviously this album they're so good.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a great Pop song, very catchy, very memorable. Very good pop song.
Speaker 1:Which one is your favorite guy? We've already got two for bad blood, but I need it just for official.
Speaker 2:Oh I do I do really like I wish you would. I love the fact that it's got the sample of Finding cannibals for the snare. Drive me crazy.
Speaker 1:Nice and what? What year was that recorded? 1989?
Speaker 2:I'm gonna guess there we go top of the class. I didn't know that a little bit of meta knowledge there but that that again it's a kind of that's a jack Antonov production and that's kind of that's slightly more tonative, where she kind of goes on to next really. But I do really like it. I love it for that. I mean, I love that snare sound and I love that sort of that. It really goes there to the 80s kind of world. But yeah, bad blood for me.
Speaker 4:Dust it's a 3-0. Okay, yeah, and here's a. Here's a quiz question for the swifty's listening at home what connects this song? I wish you would, with her other songs, breathe the way I loved you, mary's song, and enchanted.
Speaker 3:Is Jeff Beck playing on all of them? Oh?
Speaker 1:apart from that, that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 4:It's not that it's. It's because she mentions the time 2am in all of those songs. 2am is a frequently used time in Taylor Swift songs.
Speaker 1:Welcome to New York. Versus worldest dreams, it's our quarterfinals songs about New York.
Speaker 4:It seems to me that aren't songs about New York usually about bragging how awesome you are? Because the chorus of this song is the lights are so bright, but they never blind me. New York by Frank Sinatra. New York, New.
Speaker 1:York, basically bragging, isn't it? Oh, he's king of the hill. I'm not even a humble brag, dave. Empire State of Mind by Jay-Z.
Speaker 4:That's just bragging about everything, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Massive.
Speaker 4:And Englishmen in New York by Sting that's bragging about drinking tea.
Speaker 1:That's an Englishman bragging which is so out of character for the English people to brag outrageous. We're gonna take your passport back, sting. How dare you brag Bragging about drinking tea? So I'm gonna smoothly move. That's nice. There's a lot of bragging in New York songs, dave, but why was it important for her to move to New York? Come back to that original quote.
Speaker 1:We usually, which you told us the you can't chase two rabbits or you'll lose them both and that's what she decides to do this is why and welcome to New York is the way she opens this album and it's kind of like, yes, I'm here, it's pop Magnificence, right here but it's synth pop and that's the thing.
Speaker 3:It's not because so, because she was doing pop before, but it's like it's. I'm not going to put an acoustic guitar anywhere near this. This is like totally electronically fabricated, genre-specific late 80s pop and that that's that. That's the difference between this idea of her going oh, she's getting more poppy with every album, but then it's like 19 and 29. She's like screw you, this is like I'm all in and I think that's. I think that's the difference. There's still a, there's still a watermark between the two.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I'm going to push all for a vote, because we've been wanging on for ages. We've we've not really talked much about albums in New York, but I'm hoping that's because it's going to go through. It's going through surely you can never be sure, dave's in the room.
Speaker 2:Every movie that you watch on Netflix that has a scene where it's like wide shot of New York. It's this song and it's someone crossing the Brooklyn Bridge, zoom out of a taxi cab and it's just Yellow cab.
Speaker 1:I'm walking here.
Speaker 2:someone says that Exactly, there's something about Taylor Swift and Rom Combs and that's sort of like that.
Speaker 1:You see Sting in the corner having a cup of tea. Yeah, you know New York Basically. Yeah, exactly, it's the office.
Speaker 2:It's an advertiser's wet dream, so you're voting for. I'm voting for Welcome to New York, just because it sounds like that first day in a new life, basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great opening track for any film or any album. Dave, what are you voting for?
Speaker 4:I vote for Wilder's Dreams. Of course you are, Because it's moody. It's got great melody. I really like it. I think it's a better song.
Speaker 1:And also, everyone would have expected you to vote for. Welcome to New York, so it's perfect, it's perfect.
Speaker 4:Why would you expect me to vote Welcome to New York, and not me? Everyone, everyone?
Speaker 1:else listen. Of course this guy is going to vote for Welcome to New York. It's one of the best songs in the album, but I know you better than that.
Speaker 4:You keep telling us it's one of the best songs on the album.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't have it in my top five. No, I know you wouldn't, but it definitely is one of the best songs on the album. Yeah, it is so, steve, we're coming to you for the deciding vote. Welcome to New York versus Wilder's Dreams.
Speaker 3:Okay. So the thing I like about Wilder's Dreams particularly is those lovely bits where, again, she uses vocals so interestingly to make points and to get lyrics across. And it's when she does the. She's so tall but handsome as hell. And then you get that echoed background behind it which sounds swoony. It's, he's so tall but handsome as hell. And then you get to Wilder's Dreams and it's so emotive. It's so I'm overplaying this swooning thing, but I'm doing it consciously. It's completely brilliant. There's no way I can vote for it. Welcome to New York. In here, though.
Speaker 1:Well done, okay. The second quarter final is this Love versus Making Its Debut on the podcast Blank Space.
Speaker 3:Oh that's a big song. Oh, it's big what's?
Speaker 1:the name of the album.
Speaker 2:I mean, if I'm going to keep this up, for me that's a very easy conversation. Blank Space is a pinnacle of her songcraft and I think it's, I think it's one of her best ever songs. So I mean, sorry to spoil any tension, but that's, that's a favorite of mine, so that's a spoiler alert. It's an easy conversation.
Speaker 1:It's not a spoiler alert guy, unless someone else of one of these two agrees with you, and then we kind of have ruined the podcast. It's dramatic tension. Okay, so this Love versus Blank Space, dave, what are you saying?
Speaker 4:Well, this love is another cinematic one, and I think it could have finished the album. I really really like it, but it's up against Blank Space and I will be voting for Blank Space.
Speaker 3:Again, I have to not only vote the same way as Dave, but I have to literally, just basically, just agree with everything he just said. You know, I think I think this, I think this love is, is brilliant. I think it should have ended the album, could have ended the album, but it's not Blank Space, is it? No, it is. It's had a tough draw there.
Speaker 1:Okay, so her fame now has just grown and grown as it's since this album, which was almost what nine years ago? Yeah even more famous now. I mean, who is more famous in Taylor Swift? I mean it's difficult to think of. Is she in the top 10 most famous people in the world? We're talking about that kind of level now of insane fame. How can you cope with that? Could you cope with that, dave?
Speaker 3:Dave love it. David, just cruise through it.
Speaker 4:Smooth, yeah, but you do think, don't you? If you were suddenly transported into the body of Taylor Swift, what would your next move be? Oh, I like some kind of weird episode of Quantum League.
Speaker 1:So you've. I haven't thought about it actually, Dave.
Speaker 4:I haven't thought about it much, but you seem to have given it a lot of thought.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of thinking. If I was, if I was moved into the body of Taylor Swift, what would my next?
Speaker 1:move be no, no, what would my next move be? I've given it a lot of thought. Yeah, Haven't you Question mark. Surprise face, no, what would you do? I love it. It's a great. It's a great question.
Speaker 4:It's a great question, Dave. I'd stop recording and I'd become a recluse.
Speaker 1:Fucking hell. I mean, that's the worst episode of Quantum League ever, isn't it? I mean you just destroyed yeah.
Speaker 4:What? Just how long would you be a recluse for? I couldn't deal with any of that. I would. I would literally stop everything and hide away, but your short game would be amazing, wouldn't?
Speaker 1:it. I would use that to play some great courses. You couldn't, dave, you couldn't play golf, because you turn up and they go fucking hell. Taylor Swift's about to teal off on the fourth. That's amazing Good drive.
Speaker 4:Taylor. Well, it's not unprecedented though, is it? Because if we look at Taylor Swift, she is she is what she's about as famous as Michael Jackson was at his peak, yeah, or Britney Spears, I'd say she's above Madonna and she's above Britney.
Speaker 1:This is good. This is what I wanted an actual ranking. I like it.
Speaker 4:How newsworthy she is. I would say that she's. She's up where Michael Jackson was in mid-80s, but so it's not unprecedented.
Speaker 1:No, it's not, but I mean yeah none of those people have just stepped away from being famous, have they? Or just been able to go? Oh, do you know what? I'll hide away for a year and then I'll go to go down?
Speaker 4:No, because that's in their makeup, isn't it? But that's, that's answering your question. So that's totally the reverse of my makeup. I would have to hide away from it.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't be able to like for years and years and years. You'd have to be really, really dull, and I know you can do it.
Speaker 4:I've got to be really hot off.
Speaker 1:But you couldn't, but I don't think even you can be that dull.
Speaker 4:But that's the thing, that's where the money comes in useful, because you could use that money to you know buy your own island or buy your own property where you don't ever have to interact with you know concerts and fans and TV shows.
Speaker 1:I can see how you'd build a global fan base with this attitude there. I just want more, more more so, more so. Just like I said I want to fuck off, I never have to do anything. I'll talk to them. I mean, luckily I don't think anyone's going to get that famous.
Speaker 4:I mean, dave might make it If we do, yeah, you'll know. You'll know what I do next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll know exactly what the strategy is from you.
Speaker 2:A bond villain on an island in the middle of the Pacific.
Speaker 1:Okay so quarterfinal three two massive tracks out of the woods versus shake it off. I'm going to vote for shake it off.
Speaker 4:Right like it, Steve. Oh, shake it off.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 3:It's absolutely iconic. Oh, I love that it's a timeless pop song it's fun it's upbeat.
Speaker 4:It's near perfect from start to finish. Yeah, it's just a shame that she stole it. We'll get onto that, shall we Just?
Speaker 2:the lawyer there just dangling that little bomb shelf.
Speaker 1:All about the kick-drop. Oh my God.
Speaker 4:In my pursuit of fame, yeah, but you then run away violently so you can improve your golf game.
Speaker 1:I do really like it. I do really like out of the woods, I really do.
Speaker 2:I love the vocals, I just love the sort of atmosphere of it. But it's again shake it off just means you see that song performed at so many events and it just resonates with everybody. It's one of those melodies and those sort of rhythms and, like Dave says, that sort of maybe slightly familiar sort of motif or whatever.
Speaker 1:I think the kids would call it a sick beat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, maybe the kids five Guy.
Speaker 1:what were you voting for?
Speaker 4:I'm voting for shake it off.
Speaker 1:Shake it off. Okay, so it's three-nil. I would have voted for out of the woods, but I'm just the host tonight. What can I do?
Speaker 3:Nothing. You have no say in it, which I regret.
Speaker 1:Okay, final quarter, final. It's style versus bad blood. I think that you like it. We come back every time. We never go out of style. We never go out of style. You've got that long hair, slick back, white teacher, and I got that good girl face and a slight little skirt, and when we go crashing down, we come back every time. We never go out of style. We never go out of style. We haven't talked about style yet, have we no? Tell me about it, guy.
Speaker 2:I love style. I think it's in the top end of my favourites of this record.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Good. I just think it has that sort of arpeggiated synth. I love the Americana and the lyrics. I like the visual imagery it paints. I think it's brilliant. Basically, style just feels like a pure emotion and it's a carefree roof down on the Cadillac driving through America. Welcome to New York. It carries on that vibe for me. It's a vibe I really, really like and enjoy this record.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's very emblematic of the album. Dave, what are you going for?
Speaker 4:The same, I agree.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love it. Steve, what are you up for?
Speaker 3:I agree. Yes, it's 3-0. It's gone through 3-0. The semifinal the semifinal now.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we're at our first semifinal. Welcome to New York vs Blank Space. Steve, talk to me.
Speaker 3:Oh, I mean, that's the opening one-two punch, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Smashers.
Speaker 3:You know how I feel about bookending and I don't think this book is ever perfect. Yes, I don't think it's perfectly bookended because I agree with Dave. I think this level has been a better ending. A quality one-two sucker punch from an album is a big thing for me and that is a quality one-two sucker punch. So trying to put them up against each other, that's.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, I mean, I know which way I'm going.
Speaker 1:Gone Give me your vote.
Speaker 3:I'm going welcome to New York because I think it's, I love it. Well, that's gone through, because I know for a fact.
Speaker 1:Dave is definitely going to vote for that as well, so it's gone through.
Speaker 2:Guy just give us a commiserations for Blank Space.
Speaker 1:So talk to me about Blank Space.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I said before, it's like it's up there with her best really for me.
Speaker 1:It's phenomenal.
Speaker 2:I love that. It is essentially a really traditional chord sequence. It's a do what, it's that classic do what sort of unchained melody kind of you know it's the same chord progression. It's CA, minor FG, it's a real country sort of thing, but it's got all this hip hop and sort of reinvention and just just a mishmash of so many different things. It just feels like the perfect combination of her kind of country roots, her forward thinking sonics and the production and lyrically you know that high school drama kind of diary, really intimate, personal, you know sort of lyric really, and I think it's. I think it wins. For me in this semi-final. It's blank space that I'd like to put through.
Speaker 1:Oh no, no, no, Steve, if I could jump in into someone else's body, jump into David Hughes right now, only briefly, I will not outstay my welcome for everyone's benefit, but I would vote for welcome to you. I can't. It's over to the real, actual David Hughes, who's just come off the golf course dressed as Taylor Swift. No one knows why. What are you voting for, dave? I agree with Guy.
Speaker 4:It's blank space. The production is so well put together. I love all the little flourishes of noise that you get in the background. The attention to detail is brilliant on that song and misheard lyrics. What are the? The lonely Starbucks lovers? Yeah, I think I think it's a lot.
Speaker 3:I've got a lot of Starbucks lovers, isn't it? But I see it's one of other of those. But it's like one of the most brilliantly misheard lyrics of all time. And it's interesting as well because on the Taylor's version re-record, I suspected she might sort of try to clean it up so you don't mishear it, but it's like they've advised her to sing it exactly the same. So if you wish to continue mishearing it as Starbucks lovers, you can, which is brilliant.
Speaker 1:What is the actual lyrics? It's all like in here as well. What is the actual lyrics?
Speaker 3:Got a long list of ex-lovers. Got a long list of ex-lovers. Wow, I mean it's like yeah.
Speaker 1:When you say it's like even close, it's crazy. Okay, so, Dave, you're voting for blank space, so it's going through to the final. Our second semi-final is Shake it Off versus Style. Yeah, this is a really difficult one.
Speaker 4:This is the most difficult one, I think, so far. Shake it Off against Style. They're just both great, great pop songs. They're up there both. What top three for me on this album.
Speaker 2:Yeah, same I think I think genuinely do think this album is basically akin to that of like a thriller, in terms of it's got so many singles, it's so strong and sort of it came out. You know it was invented for her and I think also Michael Jackson as well. You know there was a reason why Beater has rock guitars on it, because it was a time here he was deliberately trying to corner the MTV market that wouldn't play R&B and Soul. They wanted to play rock. So he kind of sort of adopted those sonics to kind of get him into that world.
Speaker 2:And I think Taylor's doing a similar thing. You know she's aspirational, she wants to be bigger than ever and you are limited as a country artist from a global perspective. So getting into a pop sphere opens up. You know it is the mainstream, it is a bit of everything. It's not, you know, only going to be on a certain radio station. The amount of singles and the just consistency of the record, combined with her status and her sort of rise. It's very similar. I think it's. It should be talked about in that, in that kind of conversation.
Speaker 1:Okay, so come on, talk to you about these two songs. What's going through?
Speaker 4:Or shake it off great, great pop songs upbeat. It's fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with you, lightning on your feet, dave, when you dance do you never miss a beat.
Speaker 4:No, the reverse of that.
Speaker 1:You always miss a beat.
Speaker 3:Are you?
Speaker 1:thunder on your feet.
Speaker 4:Style. You know that feeling that invokes it. For that reason I'd go for style and style. I mean, I've heard both of these are gazillion times, but style just never gets old.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. I think style has a more of a sophistication than than shake it off. You know. I think it's a more grown, mature sort of sonic and feel, you know, we should probably talk about shake it off in terms of what you were looting too early. It has that very hey Mickey, kind of 60s sort of pop throwback vibe to it.
Speaker 2:It's even got a little bit of, a little bit of beat it in there in the brass, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, kind of that sort of repetitive stab thing and it's. You know, you do anything where you had that boom kind of that sort of vibe and you've got. You've got kids, you've got parents. It gets played at weddings, it gets plays at office parties, it gets played on the radio all the time. It's a sync song that every brand is going to want to do because it's such a feel good record. What's a sync song? A sync song is where you synchronize the audio to visual. So you could do that.
Speaker 2:That could be under an advert, that could be in a movie, in a famous scene in a movie. But it is also her kind of, you know, a very call to arms kind of song. For, like we've talked about those, those sort of more outcast people who make feel you know they're not the be all and end all at school or you can't not hear that song and feel good. It's like. It's like that Pharrell song, happy, you know it's a similar vibe, it's just it's a song that just, you know it's primary colors and it just goes straight for the jugular really. But but yeah, style for me, yeah, starly's, just that slight. I could listen to style anytime, anywhere, and I think it would probably be my favorite out of the two that I had to pick.
Speaker 2:Okay which you do, which you do.
Speaker 1:I'm lucky that guy and Dave, you've got style. Steve, have you got a style?
Speaker 3:I was struggling with this because I was so completely sure that Shake it Off was just utterly iconic and unassailable. And then I listened to the Taylor's version and I was like, oh, they've put on this like really bad Casio keyboards, sort of towards the end in the background, and I thought, god, that's a terrible decision. I'm going to get back and listen to the original only to realize that it's in the original as well. However, I think I've still got to vote for it because it's just totally iconic and again that I love the fact, like in Welcome to New York, it's such a statement, slightly different type of statement. It's that thing of okay, if you're going to say all these things about me and the press dating people, then I'm going to, I am going to absolutely full on, totally address this in a way that you know. It's like when you know people bully you and you just laugh at them and then they can't do anything anymore. It's so potent. Yeah, it's got me shaking off. For me it's got to be nice, Okay.
Speaker 1:well, unfortunately, I think Dave and Guy style has pushed it out.
Speaker 3:All good.
Speaker 1:So we reach a final. What is next for Taylor Swift? Want to ask that question, do you think, dave? What is next for? Is she going to run for president?
Speaker 4:What's next for Taylor Swift? Well, after she's finished the Euras tour, which will be like sometime in 2025, I think by the time she's got around the whole world.
Speaker 1:Five continents, yeah, the whole world, yeah because she's.
Speaker 4:She's done America now, hasn't she? And next is she's on to South.
Speaker 2:America isn't she.
Speaker 4:And then she comes to the rest of the world in 2024. I mean, she must be where. She's definitely got two more albums to release. So she's got Reputation, taylor's version, and the debut Taylor Swift Taylor's version, to re-release, which I guess will be some point next year. I don't know when do you go from here.
Speaker 3:Another album who knows, have to wait and see Some sort of very meta sitcom where she plays herself, but an evil version I think it'll be a sitcom where Dave is in the body of Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2:Re-launched Quantum.
Speaker 1:League with Ziggy. Call it Turning Taylor or something like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly that's. Amazing.
Speaker 4:I call it Swift Exit.
Speaker 3:Oh my god, let's pitch it, let's pitch it.
Speaker 1:Netflix was definitely green. If we can get Taylor on board, I reckon I think no one's expecting it. Steve, what's next for Taylor Swift? A sitcom when she swaps bodies with a middle-aged man who refuses even to make small talk, let alone be famous? It's amazing. I'd watch it. I do you know what? I think, taylors, people are gonna pass on this guys.
Speaker 2:It's niche, I agree but I know, make what you'd love to watch and I'd love to watch it.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Okay, so we're getting to a final. We've got final of 1989, yes, dave Woo. Um, hey, by the way, 1989. We've done three albums on this podcast from 1989. Do you know what they are?
Speaker 3:Uh, stenrose's first album.
Speaker 1:Correct, uh.
Speaker 4:Disintegration yes From 1989?
Speaker 3:1989?.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, go on. Then what's the third one? Then go on.
Speaker 1:It's a it's a least popular podcast. It's Do Little by the Pixies.
Speaker 3:Ohhhh, it's Do Little.
Speaker 2:So, unpopular and blanked it from my mind.
Speaker 1:There you go bit of.
Speaker 2:Just as for Do Little.
Speaker 1:Let's take this with fans a bit of McCartney and Goldchat. Okay, our final is blank space versus style. Talk to me, guy, a special guest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is hard, man, this is um so hard. This isn't hard, but this is the beat of this album. It was always going to be a hard Least. Semi-final.
Speaker 1:Whatever from the semi-final it was incredibly hard. There's so many.
Speaker 4:Was it always going to be these two?
Speaker 3:I don't know no it's not what I expected at all.
Speaker 1:What did you expect at all?
Speaker 3:I expected um shake it off to be here and I, if my final is Shaking off and welcome to New York. Yeah, I would go. I did not expect uh.
Speaker 4:Well, steve, shake it off and welcome to New York. Are in the third, fourth playoff. So which one would win? Welcome to New York. Okay, gets the bronze medal. Shake it off. Finishes fourth.
Speaker 1:But this, I think, is Dave and Guy's final.
Speaker 2:I think you're both Well, yeah, I think shake it off was was literally picked. I mean, I've been, I've been Tying with which one was going to win out of those two, probably all day and I have to stress, it's very close to shake it off and style, but, um, ultimately with yeah.
Speaker 1:Mine if you're interested. No, I'm not is, but it would have been out of the woods and welcome to New York. I think they're brilliant, absolutely. I really love out of the woods. I'm surprised it went out when it did.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's going to be. Can't see the woods for the dream. It's going to be a difficult one. Um, yeah, I genuinely, as of this moment, I do not know which one I'm going to pick and I think that Well, that's great.
Speaker 1:That's exactly the type of tension we want to build on. Steve, talk to me.
Speaker 3:I am genuinely surprised that I've got this far.
Speaker 1:Wow I like it a lot, less tension.
Speaker 3:Um well, no, I can guess where you're going, I'm not going to vote, I know. I do love the chorus. It's very summery. But I'm slightly surprised to see it here Because it's not, I don't think, even in my top five on this album. Um, so it's got to be blank space, which is just unassayably great.
Speaker 1:Our first vote has landed blank space and it is an absolute banger. I think this is one of the most dream songs I've ever heard. Yes, it's the stonker. It's no surprise that's got to vote Dave.
Speaker 4:Blank space is the best pop song among these two, probably the most well produced. It's the one I could imagine Quincy Jones producing. Style gives me a warm glow, so I'm going to vote for style.
Speaker 1:Oh, he's made it exciting. Guy, the as a guest, it is perfectly right that you should have the deciding vote. I feel honoured, uh, okay, so.
Speaker 2:Are you full of?
Speaker 1:style, or are you just a blank space?
Speaker 2:Having thought about it and I've actually just been looking at reminding myself of some of the lyrics actually, because there's a part in blank space where I genuinely get goosebumps. It's when that sort of gang vocal kind of comes in and you love the game. It sort of launches into that sort of post chorus part and uh, I think there's a trick on this album. I think you hear on many songs where there's layers of vocals and there's gangs and there's a lot of this sort of like crowd vocal sort of sound which I find really I just love that sound. It's a really euphoric sound. Style has it in places as well, and I think, if I'm going to have to pick, you do.
Speaker 1:Let's help with this podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm going to fill in blank space with the word winner Because it has won my vote in this competition. I think it is the pinnacle of her being self-referential. The Americana imagery, the production, as Dave said. I have to second that. It's like it's insanely brilliant. It's blank space, you know.
Speaker 1:It is you listen to that.
Speaker 2:I go back to that demo that you listen to. On the bonus I know we're not doing the bonus tracks, but like there's that version of her playing it and you can just hear the excitement of Max Martin here in the song In the voicemail though. Yeah, just going, you can tell he knows that is that something special and that she's brought in at the right time in her career. He's been the person to receive it. And then they just built on it and made it sonically something that's just perfection, pop, perfection.
Speaker 5:Hey, hey, I'm going to go down in flames. This is like an early 2000s Nelly track. Now.
Speaker 1:It wins. So it's filled in the blank space on what is the winner of McCartney Go 1989.