McCartney In Goal
McCartney In Goal is a monthly podcast that debates and dissects the greatest albums of popular rock music. Hosted by David Hughes, and fellow judges, Brett and Steve Sumner, each episode the McCartney In Goal team pick a rock or pop music album that they love and put the songs through an imaginary competitive style-knock out format to find the best song on the album. At times, they may be uninformed, biased and they are often a bit unruly. Come and listen in on the fun - and if you enjoy it, TELL A FRIEND!!! Twitter - https://twitter.com/mccartneyin Website - https://mccartneyingoal.com
McCartney In Goal
Remain In Light (Talking Heads)
What if an album recorded over four decades ago holds the secrets to navigating today's musical landscape? Join us as we untangle the fascinating complexities of Talking Heads' "Remain in Light." From the Bahamas to New York City, we track the album's creation under the guidance of producer Brian Eno.
The energetic dynamics of the album reveals the democratic spirit driving the band's creative process. We dissect the collaborative tensions among members, spotlighting Chris Frantz and Tina Weymouth's contributions and the pivotal role they played in keeping the band alive.
As we explore originality and influence in music, we highlight the Afrobeat inspiration that threads through the work of bands like Vampire Weekend and The Clash. From the spoken-word style of "Seen and Not Seen" to the iconic "Once in a Lifetime," we celebrate David Byrne's genius and enduring impact. As our music tournament heats up, these tracks exemplify the album's mesmerizing brilliance and the rich tapestry of sounds that define Talking Heads' legacy.
Twitter - https://twitter.com/mccartneyin
Website - https://mccartneyingoal.com/
wagwan fam, that's what the kids are saying. Don't question me on it, um, so are they not saying that? Don't show me anyway oh well, anyway, well, wagwan fam, anyway. And uh, hello and welcome to mccartney and goal. This is the podcast that takes a wonderful album, utter brilliance, that puts it through a sporting knockout format and sees what's won. That that's the basic gist, isn't it Brett? It's basically the gist. You got it. That's basically the gist.
Speaker 2:I don't want to make it any more complicated than it needs to be. That's a great rundown of the gist. Excellent, yeah, that was the gist Gist summary.
Speaker 1:Can you tell us what album we're doing this evening, mr Brett? Oh no, actually do you know guests like a proper host would?
Speaker 2:so so with me on on this exciting episode we've got brett's wrong album.
Speaker 1:Sorry move on like what you did there, clever and guy. How did I get here?
Speaker 2:on the, wasn't it in?
Speaker 1:73, but I'm sure is that yes was that blocked? Yeah did you come out? Did you have to go on the the underground?
Speaker 5:yeah, I had to uber it. In the end, it was just a nightmare are you having short-term memory issues again?
Speaker 1:Me, no, guy, you can't remember how you got here. Oh no, Beautiful, lovely.
Speaker 5:Sorry, I'm warming up.
Speaker 1:Very poor. This evening we're talking about Talking Heads. Slash the Talking Heads. Absolute 1980 classic. Die-hard, unassailable classic. Absolute 1980 classic. Die hard, unassailable classic. Remain in Light Brett. Tell us about that.
Speaker 2:Runners and Riders on Remain in Light. Steve, thanks for handing over to me. Remain in Light is the Talking Heads.
Speaker 2:Fourth, studio album it was produced by Brian Eno and recording began in 1980 at Compass Point Studio in the Bahamas. Mmm. Lovely with later sessions at Sigma Sound in New York City. Lovely with later sessions at sigma sound in new york city. Talking heads are ostensibly tina wayne of bass, chris franstrom's, jerry harrison, lee guitar keyboards, david burn, vocals and guitar. The album got to number 19 in the billboard charts and the album sold approximately 1 million copies.
Speaker 1:So those are your runners and riders okay, I'm going to take you up on one thing there. Well, two things actually. One why, ostensibly, surely?
Speaker 2:ah, that was good, wasn't it? Yeah, I put ostensibly in because of this album. None of them really just stick to those instruments on this album and we'll get to why, but that's why I teased you with the word ostensibly yeah, but talking heads are actually those four people no, no, what they play. So the ostensibly was the instrument, so so obviously, tina Weymouth ostensibly plays bass, doesn't?
Speaker 1:she.
Speaker 2:But she plays pretty much every instrument on this album as does the drum.
Speaker 1:You've passed the ostensibly test. Thanks Well done Right Also. And then the grammar police, just to have a quick grammar police issue here on the the.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wasn't sure about that.
Speaker 1:The eternal question of the definite article so as ever, there are bands like oasis and blur which are categorically you're never going to say the oasis or the blur it's not going to happen. It's very clear with them. And then there's bands like the beatles and the rolling stones. You're not going to say beatles or rolling stones, that's wrong. They definitely have the definite article. Then there are indeed bands like pixies, who are definitely pixies, but a lot of people get it wrong and say the pixies.
Speaker 1:Then there are also bands like pink floyd, who were the pink floyd originally and then dropped the. There are also bands like the verve, who were originally called verve but then got sued and became the verve, as discussed in previous episodes. However, the talking heads are probably the most ambiguous of all bands we've ever done regarding the definitive article, because they are referred to both as talking heads and the talking heads by people even within the band bravo beautiful that was awesome.
Speaker 2:What that was? A tour de force? What about the, the? Could they be called the by accident?
Speaker 1:yes, sometimes people do call them the, and then, when drunk, call them the, the, the, the, which becomes problematic for all. Let's be honest. Right, shall we jump into the opening round? Chaps the first two songs upon this. Let's just talk about how you feel about this album, brett. How do you feel about this album? What's your relationship with this album?
Speaker 2:Well, my relationship with this album was non-existent before we decided through this podcast and we decided about six months ago to do it for a various number of reasons, this record has been delayed and delayed late, which has been really useful, because the first time you listen to this album, you're like what, what is going on? And it takes a while to understand it and to process it. And I'm probably I probably still am and I've listened to it a lot. So that's where I'm starting with this album so you're total heathen?
Speaker 2:then it's what you're not even I, just I just didn't know it, I hadn't heard it so just an uneducated failure?
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not music listening.
Speaker 2:Well, it's not like an easy earworm drop in to go. Oh, that's that really catchy album. The other day, the first time you it.
Speaker 1:You're not going to be able to hum the tune back to someone, are you? I love all those hits.
Speaker 2:All those big hits upon it.
Speaker 1:Guy what's?
Speaker 5:your relationship with this album. I'm quite similar. I'm a huge Talking Heads fan, but much more of, probably, the albums before and after, and it's always been a bit of a blind spot, mainly because it's always been lauded as this kind of I was going to say it's their most iconic album by some margin.
Speaker 5:Well, yeah it is, and at the same time it's the one that I've struggled to get into the most. Even as a kind of fan of the alt-left kind of indie, post-punk kind of world it's still. It's a fascinating album for many, many reasons. I love their early Phoebe Gibi's sort of sound and their beginnings. I also love how they kind of slowly progress. They are sort of so ahead of the curve. No pun intended, a great pun.
Speaker 2:You can't help it. Steve didn't do the puns and you've just beautifully dropped one in. That is quality.
Speaker 1:The reason I didn't was because I didn't want to overload you with puns.
Speaker 5:Way. But you know what, Steve? There's only time for that once in a lifetime.
Speaker 1:No Tremendous, but also to the guy just very quickly, the chap on the internet who listened to the first five minutes of one of our episodes and then left the feedback. These guys don't even know what puns are. I lasted five minutes. I think you're probably right a lot of the time. On reflection, a lot of them aren't puns. They're just us trying to get the song titles into conversation in some way that we find amusing nonetheless, fuck you.
Speaker 2:I think that was a Bob Dylan episode, wasn't it? You can tell the Bob Dylan fans might be slightly more commotionally than others.
Speaker 1:Who knows, I don't care what episode it was.
Speaker 2:Beautiful, beautiful, that's a lovely, measured riposte.
Speaker 1:Really good. Yes, yes. Well, I wanted to give both sides of the award.
Speaker 2:No, that was nice, I enjoyed it a lot.
Speaker 1:Good, good, right round one.
Speaker 4:Round one. Two songs that we are pitting against each other this evening are the overload and seen and not A terrible signal To we to even recognize. He would see faces in movies, on TV, in magazines and in books. He thought that some of these faces might be right for him and that through the years, by keeping an ideal facial structure fixed in his mind or somewhere in the back of his mind, that he might, by force of will, cause his face to report, right, ok.
Speaker 2:so I mean, how do you start describing this album to somebody who's not heard?
Speaker 3:it before.
Speaker 2:It's just so dense, isn't it? There's so much going on. There's just a huge.
Speaker 5:Do you guys find the album an album of two halves?
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 5:The first four tracks are just like breakneck Bangers. Yeah, 100%. The first four tracks are just like breakneck bangers kind of amazing. And then the second half is really weird.
Speaker 5:A lot of spoken word, and again this goes back to the spoken word yeah, and that goes back to what I was saying about when I was struggling to kind of, like you were saying, to digest it. I guess it's like the second half is a real weird one and these two tracks, I think, highlight that. The the form of the overload is. That's a joy division song, right?
Speaker 2:that's the whole point, isn't it? Did you hear the? Do you know the reason of that? He?
Speaker 5:he, I know loosely, but I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2:It's extraordinary imitate, david 1980 or 79, 80, david burn read about joy division, read all about them and wrote a song in the style of Joy Division. But he'd never heard Joy Division. Oh wow, because it was 1980, and you had to buy a physical album. They were hard to get hold of and he hadn't got it.
Speaker 1:How did he nail it? To that extent, though, it's incredible.
Speaker 2:He just read about them and then wrote it from that Insane.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that, yeah to Talking Heads.
Speaker 5:It's like it's so dour.
Speaker 2:It's a one note vocal, isn't it as well? It's just like it's hard, it's a hard, listen the overload.
Speaker 5:Cause this album, I guess, is the the way I listened to it is like it's rhythm is melody, right, that's kind of that's. That seems to be the approach and we, with this era of talking heads.
Speaker 1:I had Felicuti on very, very loud while I was painting all afternoon to get me in the mood for this.
Speaker 5:Nice Did you paint very fast. I'm assuming you got the job done pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:I didn't paint fast. I sort of shook my ass a lot while I was painting. Was a brush?
Speaker 2:attached to your ass, and if so, obviously how. That's more.
Speaker 1:Twerk painting, that's more oferk painting that's more than R&B. No, I'm going to cut all of that out because no one wants those images in their head ok so yes.
Speaker 5:So yeah, overload has that sort of very dour sort of. Again it doesn't gel with what I think of. And then Seen and Not Seen has a kind of slightly more rhythmic approach. Obviously it has that hip hop kind of spoken word rap flavour to it which I know they were sort of experimenting with at the time.
Speaker 2:There's so many influences in this album. I mean there's so many, so many. But I mean, yeah, these are both from the second half of the album and it's kind of almost like the end of the party.
Speaker 1:It opens on a massive couple of bangers and like real dance tunes and then it's kind of like it made me, uh, think of the acting baby conversation we had when we were doing the u2 and, and you know, bono kept doing that thing of. Ah well, you know, it's a party for the first half and it's come down for the second half and I absolutely wasn't buying it. But I'm sorry to cut you off, brett, but if you're pitching that idea for this album which but david burn wasn't it?
Speaker 1:it sticks far better with this exactly as you said word for word than it did with any of those.
Speaker 2:You two albums a hundred percent, okay, uh, so how are we voting? Let's again. Do you want to talk about? I mean, it's hard to know what's going to go through. Um, I I just the overload is the only one that disappoints me in this album. I've listened to it a lot and it's very hard to get into and it takes a while. Certain songs you'll get into quicker than others, and pretty much all of them I've started to get into now. Even, funnily enough, see, not Seen was hard to get into, but the Overload is the only one I just can't. I wouldn't listen to again, I'll be honest.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're voting See, Not Seen, seen and not seen. Yeah, I am. Well, I'm going to vote the overload, simply because I think it's it wins out of them. Those two are probably my two least favorite things on the whole album, but I think that the overload wins, uh, by being the more atmospheric of the two, by some considerable margin. So that's one each there. Which guy gives you?
Speaker 5:the deciding vote, sir. So I well as I might have alluded to, this isn't my favourite end of the album, but I think seen or not seen feels more in keeping with the sort of talking head spirit of assimilating. Okay, I guess they are both assimilating different cultures and different sounds, but I want Joy Division to do the Joy Division stuff I don't want talking heads to do it because it doesn't sound, it doesn't quite sound as good as From an article he read yeah, yeah heads to do it because it doesn't sound.
Speaker 5:It doesn't quite sound monastically red, yeah, yeah, I don't know it. Just it just sounds like a sort of a bit of a spoof, um, or a prestige I guess. But yeah, it's, it's splitting hairs, but uh, scene and not see, I think has the more experimental fun talking heads twist all right scene and not seeing goes through it takes us to round two.
Speaker 1:It is seen, it's feeling seen.
Speaker 2:How many more bad jokes can we make using the word seen?
Speaker 1:I'm just saying. Don't want to cause a scene.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying hey God, yeah, that's a hyponym. That's not the same word. Never mind, that's fine.
Speaker 1:I don't know what hyponym means. I think I made up that word.
Speaker 3:Please, no one look that up I was just trying to impress Brett.
Speaker 2:Move quickly on.
Speaker 1:Move on Quickly on round two is Listening Wind, listening Wind versus the.
Speaker 4:Great Curve Softly he glides among the streets and alleys, up comes the wind that makes them run for cover. He feels the time is surely now or never recover.
Speaker 6:He feels the time is surely now or never. The wind in my heart, the wind in my heart. Dust in my hair, dust in my hair, the wind in my heart, the wind in my heart, the wind in my heart. Drive them away. Drive them away, moving on, moving on, moving on, moving on, for the night is gonna rise up. She's not going to describe the world. She's got messages for everyone. She's moving the remote control.
Speaker 2:The hands that guide her are invisible. Oh, that's very easy for me. I do like Listening Wind. It's got a kind of plaintive feel to it, but the great curve is just phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Do I see a pattern developing here which is going to be a bit concerning in terms of any narrative tension building here? I feel like all three of the three people present in this recording are leaning towards the first half of this album very strongly in the early stages which is something, something of a concern. I'm gonna be honest it's, it's possible.
Speaker 2:I mean let's go to guy, let's see what he says oh yeah yeah, absolutely zero tension.
Speaker 3:Top heavy album, I think I'm not gonna lie about it's like it may be.
Speaker 5:It may be seen as a classic and there's there's many elements of it. Mean, I think I'm not gonna lie about it's like it may be. It may be seen as a classic and there's there's many elements of it that I think are so ahead of its time. But I just find it as a listener, I want to listen to the first half and not the second half.
Speaker 5:I might have an introspective mood and want to, you know, let it run on and hear that second half, but you know, when you, when you have the lyrical sort of I don't know the lyrical traits of David Byrne, I kind of want a certain thing from him and he does it really really well. I don't want to say that an artist should only ever do one type of thing or one type of sound, but for me I love it when he's just rapid and rhythmic and fast and manic, and when he's not and he's slower. With the odd exception of a couple of classic songs by Talking Heads, I will always favour the up tempos, just because no other band can do them, the mania that talking heads can do, yeah, I agree extraordinary, extraordinary but listening when we should say about the lyrics really, I mean it's the album listening wind is again.
Speaker 5:Look, I tried to, I tried to understand that second half and look into the lyrics of what he did and I I know there's a lot of train of thought and stream of consciousness, a lot of stream of consciousness. He was going through writer's block right.
Speaker 2:It comes down to the way the album was written, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Let's talk about that. It's so important the way it came together.
Speaker 2:I'm going to take it all the way back to a different album, which was the album that Eno and David Byrne were doing.
Speaker 1:Do you mean to say that Brian Flippin' Eno is turned up again on this podcast?
Speaker 2:Oh, Brian Eno is everywhere.
Speaker 1:Is he involved in?
Speaker 3:this somehow he's fast becoming the new Phil Spector, isn't he?
Speaker 2:He really is, he is he produced the two albums previous to this, and this is the third album. They weren't going have him, but then they kind of ended up doing it anyway he kind of he wasn't.
Speaker 1:He heard the demos, he had the demos and decided that he was interested wasn't?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah he was doing an album with um burn. They just went off because they're both I mean, if you listen to chris france and tina weymouth, who were the, the rhythm section of this band. Chris france is the drummer, the founding member, and they are also. They've been married for almost 50 years now, I think Maybe 47, 48 years, france and Weymouth, and I think they it's really interesting to listen to them because they're very careful to be no, no, we really like working with them and collaborating, but at points it was very difficult to work with both of them and they both have this ability to really be great collaborators and work really well with you and then go away and say, yeah, we wrote that.
Speaker 1:Can we put that? Are you talking about?
Speaker 2:you're talking about, you know them talking about you know, and burn. So chris france and tina weymouth would definitely say that, um, you know, they'd be great to collaborate with, but then brian, you know, and david burn would be quite bad at saying to the well they changed the writing credit. That's what I mean I'd just say to the art the cover designer put our name as the people that wrote it.
Speaker 1:The original pressings of the album say Brian Eno, David Byrne and Talking Heads and then subsequent pressings of the album has everybody's name on it.
Speaker 2:Because, I mean, talking Heads are really a very democratic band and they've all got a say and they've all got a lot of kind of ideas and this is the perfect album for that, because everyone is an equal. It's so, you know, so equal, equal, this band. And and they have got conceptually they're a very democratic band. Um, but so to put it back, you know and burn were making an album called my life in the bush of ghosts and it kind of ended a bit acrimoniously. Acrimoniously because I think both of them are quite in that sense slightly more angular characters and therefore it could fall apart because there's no one else in the middle to soften it. So the rest of the band think, shit, we might split up here, we might not do another album because it's all a bit disparate.
Speaker 2:So, um, tina Weymouth organizes a jam and she phones up Brian Eno. So, brian, do you want to come over and jam with us? And Brian Eno says you know, I don't really play musical instrument, which is an extraordinary thing for him to say, I don't really kind of play an instrument. And I said, don't worry, just come over. So because he was kind of obviously feeling a bit shy about that, they decided to all play different instruments than they usually play. So it just basically what happened was it was kind of like this kind of like childish enjoyment of just playing a different instrument and playing in a really different way. Um, and then it's got. The jam goes really well. They get over jerry harrison and then they phone up david burn and they go brian eno's here, do you want to come over?
Speaker 2:and he's like over within an hour because he doesn't want to miss out on what's going on, and that is, and they just, they just jam that night. And that's kind of one of the one of the inciting incidents to make this album, because they realise that there's some really interesting stuff to be done here, especially playing different instruments and playing them in different ways than they've played them before. So that's where the album starts off, the concept of it, and you get all this. It's very much an album that's just jammed out and then created in the mixing, in the mixing console, and and and overdubs yeah, he said, they became human um samplers samplers.
Speaker 1:That was it, yeah, because it was literally just. We're going to play this bit over and over, and over and over again, as if it's been sampled yeah, well, samplers didn't exist, so they had to no, and he did, but he did the lyrics in the same way and there's this footage of him sort of sitting there with like a tape machine and it's almost like he's.
Speaker 1:He is just free-forming because he was um struggling with such writer's block and and the things that he then drew from were were hip-hop was, you know, I mean even does a rap at one point I'm saying and, and particularly the one I love the best is, is the, uh, the preacher thing he does, you know, he, he takes so much from there yeah, several, several times.
Speaker 1:Definitely, you know from from, because he was listening to a lot of religious uh radio in the in the us and sort of midwest I think. He was in, you know, with a lot of preachers on the radio declaiming and, and so he took a lot of that, which which works absolutely brilliantly, I think. But, um, have you heard much of my Life in the Bush of Ghosts?
Speaker 5:No, I can't say I have.
Speaker 1:It's so odd because it's exactly like you know, if you listen to like a Radiohead album or something and they're probably not a good example because their B-sides are great but if you've had that thing where you listen to a band, you listen to an album, you love the album, especially if it was from the 90s.
Speaker 1:Listen to an album you love the album, especially if it was from the 90s. And then you go back and you find all the b-sides and it's not like oasis or radiohead where they did like you know, really like quality b-sides that should have been an album. It's like you know some like weird ambient thing that's just like, well, we sort of did half did this in the studio and it's, but it sounds like the main album. It's like an album even though it was made before Remain in Light. It sounds exactly like Remain in Light, except they're not really songs. They're sort of ambient noodlings with African polyrhythms and things going on in the background, and so it sounds like someone's made a Spotify playlist of all the sort of unfinished B-side material from Remain in Light.
Speaker 3:It's perfectly listenable.
Speaker 1:But it sounds almost exactly the same.
Speaker 2:It's so strange, okay it's very odd, because they started the recording of that before and then released it after Romanian light, so Romanian light happens during after that.
Speaker 1:It's very strange actually, I think, the other, the big influence that needs to be talked about before we move on is, uh, the track from the previous album called is imbra, is imbra is imbra? Yes, which is um the opening track, right opening track from fear of music, I think that's it and um that you can.
Speaker 1:You can hear, even though they sort of had to do all this thinking and all this changing, all this sort of manipulating to get where they were on remaining light. If you listen to it, you're like, oh yeah, that's how remaining light's going to be then. And you can hear everything's in that song that they're going to do. Yeah, uh, it's such a a pointer. It's like it's like a cliffhanger at the end of the comedy series about what's going to happen next, and you're like, oh, that's the direction they're taking now then.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's an extraordinary decision and they're just playing. They're doing kind of they're jazz ideas, aren't they? They're just playing. They're doing kind of jazz ideas, aren't they? They're just working on riff, working on grooves, working on, as you said, polyrhythms, and they don't really change chord much. There's maybe one or two chords in a song you know, yeah, the chords don't change much at all do they.
Speaker 5:But yeah, the bass lines are very, very often two or three notes, but it's just about the rhythm and the context. Yeah, it's polyrhythm, isn't it? It's polyrhythm which what is polyrhythm?
Speaker 1:what is? I was about to ask you that question, so we're both asking because I don't know it.
Speaker 2:I'd ask you first and then well my understanding, let's see if god goes my understanding. What's the problem?
Speaker 1:it's like poly. Anything like polyamorous is lots you basically you've got uh, you know, lots of different rhythms being played on top of each other, so you get a couple of songs. I think Once in a Lifetime would be an example where I think Eno is starting on the three of everybody else's one, because he's playing a totally different rhythm to what they're playing so it always feels slightly off because there are so many different people playing rhythms on top of each other. Am I correct, guy Langley? You are correct, steve.
Speaker 5:Hooray, yes yeah, no, absolutely there's. There's lots of that and it's all about the um, the fact they go in and out of alignment and they kind of weave in and out. Actually a really good example when we get onto it. Um, uh, which one is it now? Let's just try to remember now yes, so the great curve, the great curve.
Speaker 5:There is a video on YouTube called anatomy of a track. Yeah, it's a visualization of the track, with all the poly rhythms and the lyrics going off an African sort of trap tapestry. It's really fascinating. If you want to get an idea visually of how these, what these work, it's a really good way of looking at it. Um, because it is all about texture and weaving lines in and out to make a bigger picture what was the extraordinary process to do that with no computer's guy.
Speaker 2:Like this is all done analog, like the effort and the work that goes in there. It must have had like loads of hands on the mixing console just to get this done well, I, genuinely I I used to always that this album was in like 1985 or something.
Speaker 5:I always used to think it was later than it was. It's when we, when we came to do the research for this, and realised it was actually 1980, 1980 for some reason yeah, it's. It is remarkable if you think what else was coming out around that time and how sort of primitive that sounded. This sort of sounds otherworldly.
Speaker 2:It's extraordinary so much. I'm going to sit a question now and I'm going to let you answer it. I'm going to give you up until the semi-finals to answer it. Who was recording Next Door?
Speaker 1:to them in 1980? I know this, oh, okay. Well, go on, then it's ACDC doing Back in Black.
Speaker 2:Back in Black is going on.
Speaker 1:Next Door.
Speaker 2:Incredible. And they said, by the time they'd done four tracks, acdc had done a solo and that was about it.
Speaker 5:I mean extraordinary, isn't? It Couldn't get much more contrasting apples. No, it's just an amazing.
Speaker 2:Totally different those landscapes, aren't they? But apparently a lot of the engineers the first engineer went fuck this, this workload is way too much.
Speaker 1:I'm off yeah we're going too quickly.
Speaker 2:So he just left, so he had to get another engineering.
Speaker 1:No, no no, who also thought it was too quick, but then just shut his mouth and get the gig.
Speaker 1:I'm being paid, I've got nothing else lined up. I need to do this. Listen. My question. I know we need to move on, but my question is if this album came out today, would cultural appropriation be on the table?
Speaker 1:Because, as much as you know, white artists have taken black music uh, right, left and center, and that's literally what rock and roll is is based on half the time. Um, this is quite specific in as much as it's you know. Yes, they take, I mean everything, everything they're influenced by other than perhaps white preachers in the lyrics is is a direct ripoff of black music. In as much as you know, there's hip-hop, there's r&b, there's funk and particularly the one I think which would, would raise the most eyebrows if they did it now, is af, is afro beats and and sort of. Because it's one thing sort of saying, oh, we're taking the blues, which was sort of already here, because the you know black fella down the street was playing blues and I'm sort of I heard it so I got excited. This is like we're lifting this from africa now, in the same way that paul simon got slightly raised eyebrows when he did graceland. You know so, but at the time I don't, I don't think it was part of the conversation no I think.
Speaker 5:I think no. Well, I think, if it came out now, I don't think it would either. I think. I think there's an ongoing conversation around originality and art and inspiration versus plagiarism.
Speaker 2:It's such a difficult thing to delineate, isn't it? It's a huge debate to get into, but I mean, what about Vampire Weekend?
Speaker 5:you know that's a very Afrobeat influence, 100% only 10 years ago I think it just it brings a new audience and it's I think it's amazing that you know. You look at artists like the Clash and what they've been inspired by. It's an era of music where I think a lot of Western audiences are exposed to brand new generations of music and culture. That just shows you that it can transcend a particular location or culture or generation. I think that's to be celebrated. And that's what I love about music, especially this time.
Speaker 2:Exactly that's what's amazing about music it brings people together, it unifies them. I think where it becomes probably more like cultural appropriation is when an artist will nick a very specific idea, not credit the other person for it, and then take the money and stop that person earning money for their work if you want to look at the led zeppelin episode for the amount of outrageous plagiarism on that album. Then check out um episode, whatever it was, 37 mccartney.
Speaker 1:I have to say the one, the one well, the episode that that, uh, that this brought to mind. For me, though, is again, we will move on in a second, but I just want to finally on this point. Is Band on the Run? Because, of course, mccartney famously goes to Lagos? I think it's Lagos has to set up the studio, because there's really no studio there set up the studio because there's no studio.
Speaker 1:And Fela Kuti gets wind that McCartney's ripping off African music. So he turns up in a very threatening way with you know, machetes sort of on his you know hip and bounces and and just, he's utterly terrified listens to bound on the run through the mixing desk. He realizes that it couldn't, couldn't be further from the truth and everything's fine. Imagine if talking heads would turn up, record remaining live and fellacuti had turned up to the studio. That would have been a very different story very different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's really interesting. Yeah, no, I mean, band on the run was never going to be too threatening in that sense of no, still pretty flipping white anyway.
Speaker 1:I mean lennon and harrison could have turned.
Speaker 2:I said, listen, you're appropriating the sound of the Beatles there. But yeah, that would have been, you know. Yeah, that's a whole different discussion.
Speaker 4:Right, let's move on.
Speaker 1:So round three is Houses in Motion versus Once in a Lifetime.
Speaker 5:Did we vote on the last round?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Great Curve won 3-0.
Speaker 2:Oh did it. Oh God, why haven't we yammered on?
Speaker 3:for ages there, didn't we?
Speaker 1:Well, let's just assume for some reason that me, the best host of all time, actually forgot to actually tally that vote. Let's just double check what are you voting for Guy?
Speaker 5:Great Curve Listening Wind. I'm going for the Great Curve.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are you going for, Brett?
Speaker 5:The Great Curve.
Speaker 2:That's a shock. I'm going for the Great Curve as well. I think it was pretty obvious.
Speaker 5:Smooth edit.
Speaker 1:But that's fine, guy, you can pick me up on that, it's not a problem.
Speaker 5:That's all right, I just like to be, you know, by the book.
Speaker 2:I mean to be honest, it was very vague. If it had gone through and we had taken at least 10, maybe 15, minutes.
Speaker 1:We were discurs. I think it was all on point. Though, to be fair, we didn't sort of ramble off into non-point territory, so it's fine.
Speaker 4:Anyway. So, to reiterate, round three is Houses in Motion versus Once in a Life. I knew I'd be able to do these things. As we watch him digging his own grave, it was important to know that was where he's at. Can't afford to stop.
Speaker 6:That is what he believed He'd keep on digging for a thousand years. I'm looking at that alone. I'm thinking about hey, take caution, I'm walking alone, just barely enough to Get through everything, and you may find yourself Living in a shotgun shack. And you may find yourself Living in a shotgun shack. And you may find yourself In another part of the world and you may find yourself Behind the wheel of a large automobile and you may find yourself In a beautiful house With a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself Well, how did I get here? Letting the days go by. Let the water hold me down. Letting the days go by.
Speaker 2:Water flowing underground Into the blue again After the money's gone. Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground. Well, I mean this is. I mean it's against Once in a Lifetime, isn't it? So it's a massive, massive track, not only on this album but in the canon of Talking Heads. So that's an obvious vote. For me, it's going to be Once in a Lifetime. What I would say about How's His Emotion is it is interesting. You've got John Hasselhoff on trumpet.
Speaker 1:That's the best thing about that track is that bizarre, exceptionally avant-garde trumpet solo.
Speaker 2:It sounds like an elephant being harassed by a flea. It really does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he's not pleased about it. No, that elephant is well pissed off. He's browned off. And then some, I'm walking along.
Speaker 6:It's great.
Speaker 2:It's really good, but it's, you know, and that was the most Fela Kuti inspired one, apparently, yeah, from they were listening to Afro Diz Yak a lot, so they were very inspired by that, but it's, you know, it's a game once in a lifetime. I'm not going to tell you. I don't know that's what I'm going for. I don't know what Guy's going with surprise.
Speaker 1:Uh, once and once in a bloody lifetime, it's in a lifetime, one of the most parodied parodied songs of all time. But we'll come back to that right. That was nice, and so, once a lifetime goes through, three we've we've all voted for it, and I can't be picked up on it. Let's move on good right well, just a bit of auditing that um right round four. So it's cross-eyed and painless.
Speaker 2:Quarterfinal, four, quarterfinal this is the easiest one you've ever had to do, because only eight songs on this album, so they're all. It goes straight into a quarterfinal. Everything straight into the corner.
Speaker 1:So simple, well done, okay, fine, yeah so I can't say so round four, all the quarterfinals, depending on how you're feeling, or quarterfinal four I don't know um. Cross-eyed and painless versus born under punches. Who did this? Put those against each other. That's deeply offensive. That's upsetting. Thank you, back to living, turn and sign out, back to getting the best of them.
Speaker 6:Back to nothing but a fix Stay away, stay away, stay away, not the government man. Oh oh, oh, it's to breathe. Oh oh, oh, it's to breathe.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, oh, it's to breathe. I know which way I'm going because, even though I adore both of these, one of them is on my all-time tracks of all-time favourite. It's literally one of my favourite records of all time, oh, really. Yes, one of these two tracks.
Speaker 5:Oh really.
Speaker 1:Yep, I have my favourite song's Ever, ever, ever playlist and it's on there.
Speaker 2:How many Evers is?
Speaker 1:it Ever, ever ever.
Speaker 2:And is it written as that on your favourite playlist?
Speaker 1:Yes, but the third ever, is in caps with an exclamation mark.
Speaker 2:Oh, obviously an exclamation mark, so it escalates yeah of course it escalates towards the end, just in case there's any doubt. Oh yeah, in brackets, hopefully, I would imagine.
Speaker 3:I can add that All right.
Speaker 2:Well, you've let some kind of cat out of the bag there, because, unless you've got another fricking song on your favourite songs, ever, ever, ever exclamation mark we know what you're going to vote for all the way through to the final. So, Guy and I are going to have to pretend to like other songs more strongly than we do.
Speaker 1:I just occasionally like to drop a truth bomb, mic drop Off, I go. So now you know, except you don't, because you don't know which song it is yet.
Speaker 5:No, I was going to say, do we need?
Speaker 2:to guess. Well, we're going to know when he votes.
Speaker 1:Oh, we can guess, I'm going to guess Born Under Punches. You're guessing Born Under Punches. Okay, here's a clue. The version on something else that we need to talk about, on the live utter piece of genius that has stopped making sense is possibly even better than the version on the album.
Speaker 5:Okay well they're both on it.
Speaker 1:And in fact ends that concert and has a false beginning that goes slowly and then hypes into the mania of the real thing.
Speaker 2:Wow, guy, what's your guess?
Speaker 5:he's really thinking about this. Born under point. Born under? Yeah, well, I thought you might go for cross-eyed and painless, because it sounds like a pink floyd song, but uh, born under punches, I think you both think born under punches.
Speaker 1:You're both wrong.
Speaker 2:It's cross-eyed and painless yeah, it's all the vocals, isn't it? It's an amazing amount of vocals just um it's.
Speaker 1:It's a remarkable piece of music. I, I the rap, what's all of it? It's just uh. The paranoia that comes through the lyrics. It's one of the most coherent once you, once you've worked out what the hell's going on. It is one of the most coherent uh lyrics on the album in terms of a sort of a paranoid man who, who? You know where even facts are are turning against him.
Speaker 1:You know um but yeah cross-eyed, cross-eyed and painless is amazing and genuinely, if you, if you, if you listen to that version, that ends stop making sense. They do this, this big sort of false slow beginning, and then kick into it and it's just, it's so good, it's ridiculous and, but I do love both I like. I think born under punches is fabby do's as well.
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah, I mean born under punches has the amazing glitchy guitar, synth guitar. Is it a guitar? Is it a synth? I don't know. Oh, even I've got this written down somewhere.
Speaker 1:Hang on, because I think it's a synth. It's a synth and it's a very specific synth and it was played by. It was played by uh burn and not adrian bellow, who uh baloo, who we need to talk about. Um, what was it called? It was called a lexicon prime time delay unit and was recorded piece by piece, with each part speed manipulated upon playback uh, but adrian baloo played it um live, right?
Speaker 5:yeah, because it's that sounds like a johnny greenwood solo from sort of, but Adrian Ballou played it live Right, right, right. Yeah, because that sounds like a Johnny Greenwood solo from sort of the early 2000s. Yeah, kind of messed up, cut up, delay. It's an amazing sonic texture.
Speaker 2:Well, radiohead, very influenced by Talking Heads, they're named after a Talking Heads song. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:No, completely.
Speaker 5:I've always thought if you get the Beatles and add Talking Heads, you get Radiohead that's the two sort of that's my little, nice, that's your.
Speaker 1:Then if you, add, you add, like all of everything on. Warped Records about halfway through as well. Yeah, of course, take a left turn. Yeah, take a left turn, but initially. Yes, for sure, turn the lights yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 5:And then Crosshead and Painless. I mean, all I know about that is just the influence of the Breaks by Curtis Blow. Wasn't that the song that they played David Byrne, to kind of give him a vague idea of how to phrase things.
Speaker 2:It's an early hip-hop record. Yeah, it's an early hip-hop record, the Curtis Blow one which Chris France had played drums on. So that's why they knew it yes.
Speaker 3:They had just read about it. They actually, they'd just read about it, they'd actually heard it and everything not just read about the artist.
Speaker 5:They'd actually heard the song so that I'm going to vote earlier. I'm going to go for Born Under Punches.
Speaker 1:Oh no, please, please, please you can't put Cross-Eyed and Painless out, oh fucking hell, you can't put it out.
Speaker 5:I can and I just did. Oh, brett, brett, okay, brett, you've got to do it. Two words Steve Eleanor Rigby.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, is this payback? You were going to vote for Cross Island Painless. This is payback, ladies and gentlemen, for an episode that he listened to as a listener, and he's still upset with me for getting Eleanor Rigby out.
Speaker 5:Round one, round one. It went out round one. It's not even a.
Speaker 1:Beatles song. It's just him and some fucking cello. Honestly, I don't want you talking about it.
Speaker 5:Fuck me. Anyway, that's my view and I'm sticking with it.
Speaker 1:One for Born Under Punches, then, as good as it is, it ain't cross-eyed and painless.
Speaker 2:Yet the beat goes on, because I'm voting for it as well. Oh, I hate you. I hate you.
Speaker 5:I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:Why did I put those against each other? I don't know. Oh, why did I put those? I didn't think for a second that that would happen. Oh my God.
Speaker 5:Look. I don't do it in jest, it's a really good song and I love it.
Speaker 2:Those three songs are amazing.
Speaker 5:The first four songs, yeah, the first four songs of this album, I think, are just phenomenal. So sorry, steve, I think are just phenomenal and you have to split hairs, don't you Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, just so you know, whatever wins, I will play Cross-Eyed and Painless as the play out track on the episode, anyway, as if it has won, because I'm editing this one. So stuff you both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fair do's. I'm so sorry. I just really love Born Under Punches. It's an amazing way to start an album.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is a brilliant way to start an album. Yeah, it is a brilliant way to start an album. There's no way around it, oh dear. Well, look, can we talk about Jerry Harrison for a minute? Don't fret, because I think, because Adrian Ballou was, I think he was King crimson at some point, but he, he was frank zapper's guitarist, I think, and and he, um, he sort of does a lot of the crazy weird stuff and I felt really sad and sorry for jerry harrison for a long time I thought either he's got.
Speaker 1:He's got like no ego and he's fine with stuff or he's just let someone come out, else come in and play all the fancy because jerry harrison's yeah, he's lead guitar essentially in talking, but he is, but he is the guitarist and keyboard player. So once I discovered that he was both of those things and also he wasn't really credited as lead guitarist, he was more credited as guitarist and keyboard player I was like, okay, that's a great. And apparently he's just the loveliest, easiest going chap ever.
Speaker 1:So respect to him for letting someone else come in and play all the fancy bits.
Speaker 2:Well, it was a great. This whole album was a massive collaboration. So they'd all swap instruments and everyone plays percussion, everyone sings. So I think that attitude of it, that energy, just allowed that to not be a thing, whereas in a lot of bands it probably would be a huge issue, wouldn't it? Just someone coming in? Oh, we're just going to get in another guitarist. Two of us play guitar. That's my main instrument. Yeah, fair play to him Right.
Speaker 1:Semi-final number one is Seen and Not Seen. How is I mean? Whoever did this draw? It was me.
Speaker 2:It was me, and if only I'd sent you a different draw, which you forgot I'd sent you, and you could have done that one.
Speaker 1:Cross-eyed and painless, is out and seen and not seen is still fucking here and that, ladies and gentlemen, is on my head anyway, why didn't you put cross-eyed and penis against the overload and you'd have been laughing? Because I wasn't trying to win through with what I wanted I was trying I was trying to create narrative tension for a good podcast experience for our listeners.
Speaker 5:Brett we've definitely got tension, definitely got tension.
Speaker 2:I'm feeling tense the look on your face don't tell the listeners, steve, don't tell the listeners, you've got to game McCartney in goal. You can't just let it happen, otherwise your favourite song might not win. Don't tell anyone. That's my little tip to you.
Speaker 1:I think that the listenership has been the winner, but I'm going to bed sad. Right semi-final, one Scene and also not scene versus the Great Curve More hooked nose, wider, thinner lips, beady eyes, larger forehead Well, that's easy, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Come on, we know what's going through. What I just want to say about Seen and Not Seen is it's very spoken word. The album kind of goes more and more spoken word, more and more kind of sparse and kind of, you know, disconnected. But I love it. It's like talking about someone's appearance and them thinking if they can change their appearance just by thought alone. It's such an odd set of lyrics. And I love when it goes beady eyes and it reminds me of the Steve Coogan sketch about the pool attendant.
Speaker 3:You know the one. Oh yeah, in 1984 nothing happened. 1982, yeah, someone died. It's just amazing. Well, I I would say this I've been working for 18 years in 1975, no one died. In 1976, no one died. In 1977, no one died. In 1977, no one died. In 1978, no one died In 1979, no one died In 1980, someone died In 1981, no one died In 1982, there was the incident with a pigeon In 1983, no one died In 1984, no one died.
Speaker 2:And apparently Coogan had a Talking Heads song on his Desert Island disc and said he wanted to play David Byrne in a biopic. And David Byrne said yeah, that would be awesome, so maybe Coogan's channeling this track on that sketch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who knows let's let's talk about burn for a second, because, uh, one of the most interesting. I don't know when he was um diet when he got a diagnosis, but david burn is is famously autistic yes, asperger's syndrome?
Speaker 2:I think isn't it. Is that what it is?
Speaker 1:well, yes, but asperger's is no longer a term in use, for whatever reason. I'm not there. I don't think that it's necessarily become offensive in the way that some terms pass out terminology and become offensive, but for reasons I don't quite understand, yet Asperger's has been taken off the table and now it's just all one big autistic spectrum again. However, yes, I suspect that it was probably labeled that way before, but, um, yeah, and I think I think that affects his, certainly his relationships with, with people around him and, um, the group, but certainly affects his sort of world view and well, this, this is a kind of interesting this.
Speaker 2:This song is kind of like a kind of a someone who struggles to present themselves in a way that other people can understand, or you can understand. It reminds a bit of masking, doesn't it? They're kind of the lyrics. It could imply that at some stage yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:But I mean even things like titles, like one of their albums is called, like more songs about buildings and food, I think you know, and it's that thing of that's not a usual title or things to write about in rock music. There may be genres of music where that's a thing but that's not really a thing, and and so much of that um comes through, I think, and makes him interesting, because he's coming at things from an angle that that you might not expect oh, completely.
Speaker 2:I mean, his brain's extraordinary. He's even written a a book, hasn't he? About music? He's written a number of books as well. I, I mean he's a completely searching soul. There's no doubt about that. Chris France said. You know they used to live in a loft together, the three of them, france, weymouth and David Byrne. I think they met at art school or something and they said, you know they really liked him.
Speaker 2:He was really great to collaborate with reverse charisma, like he would get really anxious and then he would like kind of sweat on stage loads and people thought he was having a nervous breakdown when they're playing a gig. He's just like you know. He really went through the middle of it and I think part of of that might be why they you know those issues with possibly, um, he'll collaborate and he's great to collaborate, but then afterwards he might not necessarily see that and that's what the issues that would happen with Eno and Burr when they just said, oh, we'll put our names on the credit for the album, they might have just processed it differently or not thought of it in the same way as Franz and Weymouth had thought about it well, one of the ones I enjoy is when they started it was Burr and Franz and they want, they were trying to find a bassist in new york and they couldn't find a bassist.
Speaker 1:So he's like well, my girlfriend tina, she, let's get her to learn the bass. And they're like amazing so they get her to learn the bass because they can't find a bassist. Despite both burn and and France asking her to learn the bass to join the band, Byrne still made her audition three times.
Speaker 3:Fucking hell.
Speaker 1:Absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 2:I mean, she's an amazing bassist and an absolute.
Speaker 1:She's such a great bassist An incredible kick-ass.
Speaker 5:It's a iconic figure.
Speaker 2:Because she was their early road manager. She was the one that organised stuff. She got them going, she booked the gigs. She would take a notebook with her, write down how many encores, how many songs played, did they get paid and would they want to go back. These are things she noted and she would love to go into, you know, the promoter's office and they've got like a shotgun on the table and she's either counting out the money and like the. The best story is when she went to nashville and the promoter was counting out the money and he counted out too much, and so she recounted out very delicately, pointing out the fact you've given me too much money, and he's like, oh great, when can you come back?
Speaker 2:I just loved him so much such rare honesty to do that so that's great yeah, I mean, uh yeah, an amazing, yeah great bassist, totally kind of interesting. And the the bass is probably the cornerstone of this album, in the sense that it's the most rooted thing in the album, because you've got all the poly rhythms going off.
Speaker 1:It's the bass that locks it, and if that wasn't, yeah, absolutely, and the two of them were brilliant together and of course they went off and formed their own band in one of those periods which was Tom Tom Club Tam Tam Band if you want what the fuck, did I just?
Speaker 2:say Tam Tam Band.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, that's spectacular. That is pretty impressive.
Speaker 1:It's not even that late, it's half eight.
Speaker 2:It's not late at all.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's all good, but their most famous track, the name of which escapes me, but I will play here because it's one of the most Genius of Love. It's what's it called.
Speaker 5:Genius of Love.
Speaker 1:Genius of Love, because it's like one of the most sampled tracks of all time, I think.
Speaker 5:Yeah, Mariah Carey is the famous sample usage of it. Yeah, but I'm sure there's a couple of hip-hop ones as well.
Speaker 1:But yeah, the Mariah Carey one's huge, but it's yeah because they went off and did fascinating things. Just the two of them. We're on semi-final two and we're talking about Once in a Lifetime against Born Under Punches.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, okay, now we're talking-final two. We're talking about, once in a lifetime, against born under punches. Oh, wow, okay, now we're talking, aren't?
Speaker 1:we that's.
Speaker 1:That's getting hard now it really is I mean born under punches is a great way to start an album well, as much as anything, because I think it's there's a mission statement in all the weird sounds. Because it's like when, if you, if you listen to it loud enough, it's just like whoop yeah in the background. You're like what's happening enough. It's just like whoop Wah In the background. You're like what's happening now, and it's such a great mission statement for the album. It's like, oh, this is not going to be particularly normal, right, I see, okay.
Speaker 2:It's absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1:I mean, I literally had to go and check on the dog three or four times today because I was listening to the opening track on his album and I'd forgotten that burn is in the background, you know in between.
Speaker 2:It's almost as bad as fireworks night, isn't it really? Yeah, your dog remaining light that's great well, um guy, talk about both of these tracks a bit, because I'm still thinking about which one I want to vote through for me it's fairly easy.
Speaker 5:Um, my, I mean it's. It's weird if we're talking about once in a lifetime. Right, it's, it's. It's the rare instance of where a song is so big that I've turned into steve a little bit and it's like it's diminished its effect on me a little bit, and it's it's worn it down.
Speaker 5:However, that's it as I said to before, this album I've, even though it's a classic album and rightly so, I think for especially for its time, and I think you have to remember that when you're looking at albums that you might not necessarily get instantly, but you know, if you think of this as 45 years ago, 40 god, is it that long ago?
Speaker 2:it's, it's, it's so fucking timeless album, isn't it?
Speaker 5:it's just timeless, it's but once in a lifetime does something. Um, really, really well.
Speaker 2:It has a discernible chorus as well.
Speaker 5:That's quite rare for this album yeah, it's also kind of just got this kind of major key like brightness to it where it shifts between two real sort of pop chords and again it's got more than one chord, which again is unusual on this album especially when those chords come in towards the end and it really starts to move.
Speaker 5:They add three or four chords and it moves through, through the um, the chorus again, but it's like a sort of euphoric kind of yeah, we've talked about it, obviously the lyrics are based on a sort of us preacher doing his kind of sermon. It's a very sort of prophetic kind of uh, semi-religious kind of delivery of those sorts of realizations that, once you know, you do wake up at some point in your life and realize, oh my god, I'm this age, now look where I've come from and look what I've done, and you have this sort of above out-of-body experience of realizing these circumstances. And literally, how did I get?
Speaker 5:here like this is mad the fact that I'm now at this stage of my life and I'm very cognizant of that fact. Uh and it it does. What all great talking head songs do really really well is it does something batshit crazy sonically but does something really uniform and sort of uh, middle ground so that everyone can kind of understand and identify with. Um, and that's where I think, when, when bernie's at his best is when he does those sort of very arty deliveries of something that everyone kind of goes yeah, I can see myself in that. That actually makes total sense and it has a groove and it has a, uh, a sort of, like I say, euphoric sensibility. That I think is is really really great and it combines a little bit of that African polyrhythm sort of element. But then it also has this very sort of straight kind of pop ness to it.
Speaker 5:It's a nice halfway house and it is literally halfway through the album and it's like this sort of it is the combination of everything on this record all in one pretty much all at the same time with all the different things going on um, and even though I don't love this album particularly as much as other talking heads albums and I have had this song a lot that it's kind of it's not even in my top five favorite talking head songs, I still think it is, for me, my favorite song on this, wow so that.
Speaker 2:In that in mind, that was a beautiful summary, a very coherent argument. I really enjoyed it. I'm voting for born under punches good yeah oh, it gives me the very hard task then, because, yeah, I mean the lyric thing.
Speaker 1:I get the point, but again, when once you get to the chorus of once in a lifetime, it it sounds much more meaningful than it is, because I completely agree with your analysis of what he's perhaps saying, um, about life and where you've got to in in the verses. But but once it gets to once in a lifetime and water flowing underground and into the blue again and the mighty star and everything it that, it's just non-sequiturs again brilliant sound brilliant brilliant sounding ones, but um, they don't.
Speaker 1:They don't, but, and the same as it, all the same, as everyone's stuff is great I'm just trying to talk myself through it, so born under punches.
Speaker 5:I think well, yeah, go on, go on.
Speaker 1:Sorry, oh, this is really hard I don't want to vote for what's in a lifetime, because it seems really obvious. And I love born under punches, but I'm so upset with born under punches for taking out my beloved that I'm yes, I'm just on that basis alone. I'm so upset with Born Under Punches for taking out my beloved Rosalind Payne that I'm just on that basis alone, I'm going with Once In A Lifetime.
Speaker 2:You bitter bastard you say that as if you didn't know that about me like it's a revelation right which takes us to the final.
Speaker 1:Ladies and gents, how did we get here so quickly for such an incredible album, which is the?
Speaker 2:great, I haven't had my dinner yet. That's why we got here so quickly.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's just that you're just saying any old shit to get through to the end.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on.
Speaker 3:I want my burger I want my sausages.
Speaker 1:Right, it's the Great Curve versus Once in a Lifetime.
Speaker 2:Well, two fantastic songs, so dense. I mean the Great Curve we haven't talked about that much. I mean it's got so many vocals on it. It's ridiculous, it's just incredible. And it's got something. There's a term I learned today, a musical term I learned today, called Hockets. You heard that before?
Speaker 1:No, never.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's like it's where almost the same part is played by two instruments. So that's what a was, what a hockey is. It's not a call and response. It's not like one instrument plays a line everyone responds to. It's like it will be split over two instruments, so is this the bass lines where the bass lines, guitar lines, all those things they're like they're hockey. So there's just a couple of beats. They'll play on one instrument and another one will take over. So it's like a conversational thing. It's conversation it's yes, it's extraordinary so you got.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's so many layers in this album. I just can't believe they did it. It's such hard thing to do without computers and sampling and to conceive it. I think it must have just been a lot of hard work and a lot of pain. I know david burn had to go away to write a lot of the vocals, which is extraordinary to think because there's so many vocals going on. In this album, so many layers.
Speaker 1:Particularly great curve though, where I mean, you know, it sounds like they're almost doing doo-wop, stuff like going, but they're not. It's like literally, because you've got this line. She's moving to describe the world and then they're singing against it night must. She's moving to describe the world and then they're singing against it Night Must Fall. Now Darker, darker, and it's like what?
Speaker 2:And?
Speaker 1:I can't have told you without reading them off a screen, which I never do, but I'm doing right now. You can tell from my amazing delivery. That those two things, I know, thank you that those two things across each other end up somehow creating this bizarre thing where it sounds like they're doing which is not what they're doing at all, and it's literally just two very specific lyrics melding in an incomprehensible middle ground to create this sort of sonic soup, and that's to sacrifice the meaning or the specificity of the lyrics.
Speaker 1:to sound in that way is brave as much as anything else, or complete madness it's extraordinary.
Speaker 2:I mean it must have taken hours to mix this. Surely it must have done to all those vocal ideas going on yeah, I think it's Nona Hendrix who's the vocalist. They got in to do a lot of the singing on this, on this track. It's brilliant. Her vocals are absolutely amazing.
Speaker 5:You know, it's just yeah, I think it's also, I think it's probably engineered phenomenally well, so it's kind of it's just the fidelity of it is really what does that mean?
Speaker 2:engineered really well. What are you saying there to us non-producers?
Speaker 5:the mics, they've used the kind of quality of equipment they've used, the rooms they've recorded in. So the natural reverb, everything was probably going to be I mean, I don't actually know how much uh layering they did sort of outside of you know, it's not like a full specter thing where they're all going to be in the room and they're all going to be playing it live and that's the recording it's all about getting that room set up to sound right, like the record, like the guitar will be over there and the drums will be over the backs.
Speaker 5:It would probably be much more studio oriented, but still it sounds really high definition for its time.
Speaker 5:There's a lot of clarity around every instrument, there's a lot of spatial stuff going on and that's that's again. It's a form they're playing with, aren't they? You can you can do the sort of linear time thing, but then also you can do the sort of 3d thing with space on the record and um, and then you get things like the mad guitar synth at the end of the great curve which sounds like sort of hair metal yeah, it's again, is it?
Speaker 5:it's actually like another synthesizer, probably the same one, pretend perhaps, but uh it's, it's.
Speaker 5:That sounds like 1988 sort of hair yeah, rock yeah, and it's 1980 and it's just thrown in like some mad wig out and it's almost like they're just going through sort of demo, sort of presets, even though the sound doesn't change. It's like just sort of hammering different ways of making noise out of this thing, as the song kind of rambles on to six and a half minutes or whatever it is. Um, it's fascinating, it's just yeah, but at no point is it? Do I ever kind of listen to it and think, oh, I've had enough of this?
Speaker 2:it's hypnotic. We're probably the most hypnotic song on the album. There's a lot of like just songs that are totally kind of mesmerizing in that sense I mean, those three openers back to back are just it's just madness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's just full-on assault of your senses. I mean it's, I was trying to do so, I was listening to that. So listen to this album a lot, a lot. As I said at the start of the podcast, you asked us how, what's your journey of this album? So I might as well summarize it now. I mean, the first time I listened to it, I'm like fuck, steve suggested this album. It is wow, it is really out there. Um, but there was something I thought okay, no, this is interesting, it will challenge me to listen to it and it's, it's been fantastic. I've really enjoyed it. I mean, I admire it as much as I enjoy it. I think, like guy says it, it definitely that the start is stronger than the end, although latterly I have started to get into some of those later songs, um, and they're, they are compelling in their own way, but the first three songs are just oh. First four songs are just like phenomenal and you just cannot fail to dance to them.
Speaker 4:You have to. You have to move your ass to these.
Speaker 2:They're just incredible. Also, you just can't do anything else really when you're listening. You can't do anything like. Sometimes you'll put on music and send some emails or read something. Just no, you cannot. This music will not allow you to be distracted from it. It is fully compelling and demanding of your attention.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely well put yeah well put what you voting for Brett um yeah, I've got agree with Guy, like I mean, once in a Lifetime is a very popular song in in the canon and it almost didn't make the album because, until you know, developed a melody for that chorus, um, but I really, I really love the fact you can. This is one of those albums you can put on and it will change your mood.
Speaker 2:I've said that a few times with different albums. I think that's a remarkable, incredible piece of work, and the great curve will get me dancing, so I'm voting for that okay, well, I, I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna vote great curve because I think it's. It's just so hypnotic and incredible Just those first three had I not put Bourne and Underpunches against Cross-Eyed and Painless. I just wanted all three of them to get as far as they could in the competition. So that's on me. I'm voting Great Curve, almost out of respect for our fallen comrades at this late stage.
Speaker 2:Are you voting the Great Curve because it's closer in the track listing to cross-eyed and painless than once in a lifetime is that?
Speaker 1:I'm touching at straws, but that's what's happening.
Speaker 2:I'm touching at straws yeah, guy, what are you voting for?
Speaker 5:well, although it's somewhat moot now. Uh, I am going for once in a lifetime. Um, I love that the great. I'm glad this final, because they are my two favorite songs from this record in the final so.
Speaker 5:I'm very happy about that. We kind of ended up here. But I do recommend anyone listen to the outtake on the sort of bonus version of Remaining Light which is called Right Start, which is gives you an idea of how these songs kind of started and once in a lifetime again they were, you know, tina and chris making these sort of looped kind of backing tracks and that song when you hear it kind of where humble beginning on a guitar and some extra bits, it's fascinating to see, just from a songwriting perspective, where it kind of got to and where it started and you can hear the guitar that was in that part being looped in the actual final version and um, and there's also, you know, visually I can't get away from the video and the fact that it was. It was wasn't really a hit when it came out, but then the mtv rotation because they didn't have any songs to play back then they just hammered once in a lifetime and the video is iconic, the spoofs of the video are iconic.
Speaker 1:So many spoofs of it, so many yeah the muckers, one in particular. Yeah, the dancing is amazing the dancing is amazing.
Speaker 2:It's like the very, very weird pilates lesson. Isn't it the way he dances?
Speaker 5:yeah, I think it. Yeah, and it kind of feeds into that sort of what we think of as talking heads. We think of the big suit and we think of, uh, stop making sense perhaps which I would argue is actually their best album, um.
Speaker 1:Yes, I might argue that as well. Stop Making Sense is the film?
Speaker 2:isn't it directed by Jonathan Demme and it's a live performance?
Speaker 5:Yes, a live performance.
Speaker 1:And almost universally regarded as the greatest concert film of all time, and if you haven't seen it, see it.
Speaker 5:Yes, and it's also has the benefit of having all the best talking head songs in amongst the set list as well. Yeah, but yes, for me. I love the Great Curve For me. Once in a Lifetime is my favourite, but it doesn't matter anymore, because you buggers have voted the Great Curve to win.
Speaker 1:No, we haven't Brett's voted Once in a Lifetime, hasn't he?
Speaker 6:Do you?
Speaker 1:listen.
Speaker 2:Fuck me. What is going on?
Speaker 1:I voted for the Great Curve, the Great Nonny. I was concentrating on other items right, the Great Curveball I've actually crossed it out on my bits of paper once in a lifetime. That's because you're cross-eyed and painless. Fuck it that was brilliant.
Speaker 3:That was brilliant. You cross-eyed him painless. Fuck it Al I mean that was brilliant.
Speaker 2:That was pretty pretending as well, because I voted for the Great Curve and then you voted for it as well, killing the tension of the final. Which would have been amazing, because Guy was voting for the other song. I mean, I was convinced.
Speaker 1:Let's go back and do it all again. Let forget that bit. It's tension. I've literally crossed it out on a bit of paper and everything are you having a breakdown like once in a lifetime?
Speaker 2:this is not my house. Wow, steve, was it seen and not seen that final?
Speaker 3:my vote. Yeah, exactly yikes.
Speaker 1:So the winner surprise and complete shock it's only to your surprise, everyone else.
Speaker 2:That's a bit of an anti-climax. No one else is like that's a bit of an anti-climax.
Speaker 1:If you've been listening, you wouldn't be surprised by this at all, but the winner of Remaining Light is in fact the Great Curve. Obviously, that should be cross-eyed and painless, but it is in fact the Great Curve.
Speaker 5:Well done From the magic of life she is moving to describe the world.
Speaker 6:She has messages for everyone. She is moving the remote control. Thank you, bye.