{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.51,"body":"Hello changemakers"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.51,"body":"Welcome to another episode of"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":3.51,"endTime":6.9,"body":"the hens accelerate health"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":3.51,"endTime":6.9,"body":"podcast. I'm your host, Carrie"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":6.9,"endTime":11.46,"body":"Amato. And within healthcare"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":6.9,"endTime":11.46,"body":"virtual reality applications are"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":11.46,"endTime":15.69,"body":"currently being used to control"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":11.46,"endTime":15.69,"body":"pain, decreased anxiety and"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":15.69,"endTime":20.34,"body":"reduce stress. And new research"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":15.69,"endTime":20.34,"body":"has demonstrated a strong case"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":20.34,"endTime":25.44,"body":"for its use and care both at"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":20.34,"endTime":25.44,"body":"home and in the hospital. How"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":25.44,"endTime":28.41,"body":"can this new effective therapy"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":25.44,"endTime":28.41,"body":"be scaled to a broader"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":28.41,"endTime":33.21,"body":"population of patients? And my"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":28.41,"endTime":33.21,"body":"co host today, john sharp will"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":33.21,"endTime":37.35,"body":"answer just that question. As he"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":33.21,"endTime":37.35,"body":"speaks with Dr. Brennan Spiegel,"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":37.62,"endTime":41.7,"body":"Director of health services"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":37.62,"endTime":41.7,"body":"research at Cedars Sinai and"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":41.7,"endTime":45.09,"body":"author of the upcoming book, how"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":41.7,"endTime":45.09,"body":"virtual therapeutics are"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":45.09,"endTime":48.54,"body":"revolutionized medicine. Over to"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":45.09,"endTime":48.54,"body":"you, john."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":64.47,"endTime":67.5,"body":"Dr. Spiegel, glad to"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":64.47,"endTime":67.5,"body":"have you back on the hims"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":67.5,"endTime":69.12,"body":"program. How are you doing"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":67.5,"endTime":69.12,"body":"today?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":69.39,"endTime":70.89,"body":"I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":69.39,"endTime":70.89,"body":"great. Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":71.16,"endTime":71.67,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":71.7,"endTime":74.13,"body":"so let's dive right"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":71.7,"endTime":74.13,"body":"in. There are a lot of questions"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":74.13,"endTime":78.96,"body":"about the use of virtual reality"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":74.13,"endTime":78.96,"body":"and other kinds of augmented"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":78.96,"endTime":83.43,"body":"reality in medicine. And"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":78.96,"endTime":83.43,"body":"obviously, you're one of the"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":83.43,"endTime":85.08,"body":"world's experts on this."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":86.49,"endTime":87.15,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":88.95,"endTime":95.31,"body":"in the past, or VR, really, in"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":88.95,"endTime":95.31,"body":"my view, came out of the gaming"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":95.31,"endTime":100.92,"body":"world, or is seen as a luxury"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":95.31,"endTime":100.92,"body":"for exploring virtual spaces."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":101.43,"endTime":104.7,"body":"How is VR gain credibility in"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":101.43,"endTime":104.7,"body":"medicine?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":105.72,"endTime":108.66,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":105.72,"endTime":108.66,"body":"VR, even before gaming, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":108.66,"endTime":115.59,"body":"was really advanced through the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":108.66,"endTime":115.59,"body":"military, for simulating, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":115.59,"endTime":120.18,"body":"know, aircraft, flight,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":115.59,"endTime":120.18,"body":"helicopters and so on. So a lot"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":120.18,"endTime":125.61,"body":"of the very earliest work came"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":120.18,"endTime":125.61,"body":"out of US military. As you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":125.64,"endTime":129.9,"body":"more accessible VR platforms"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":125.64,"endTime":129.9,"body":"became available, then certainly"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":129.9,"endTime":134.07,"body":"for gaming and entertainment, VR"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":129.9,"endTime":134.07,"body":"made a mark. But what we've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":134.07,"endTime":137.61,"body":"learned over the years long"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":134.07,"endTime":137.61,"body":"before I became involved, was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":137.61,"endTime":142.83,"body":"that virtual reality has this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":137.61,"endTime":142.83,"body":"tremendous ability to alter"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":142.86,"endTime":147.72,"body":"consciousness, our experiences"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":142.86,"endTime":147.72,"body":"of the world, but the world"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":147.72,"endTime":152.04,"body":"around us And the world within"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":147.72,"endTime":152.04,"body":"us. And if we use it,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":152.55,"endTime":157.26,"body":"effectively, then we can use it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":152.55,"endTime":157.26,"body":"to promote positive cognitions,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":157.26,"endTime":160.62,"body":"about the world around us in the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":157.26,"endTime":160.62,"body":"world within us. So the idea of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":160.62,"endTime":165.63,"body":"using VR for healthcare is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":160.62,"endTime":165.63,"body":"something that has been tested"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":165.63,"endTime":169.11,"body":"now for decades in psychology"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":165.63,"endTime":169.11,"body":"laboratories around the world"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":169.11,"endTime":173.55,"body":"and elite universities. But"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":169.11,"endTime":173.55,"body":"until recently, we haven't had"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":173.55,"endTime":179.67,"body":"low cost, highly effective"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":173.55,"endTime":179.67,"body":"headsets that we could clean and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":179.67,"endTime":183.54,"body":"reuse and bring to the front"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":179.67,"endTime":183.54,"body":"lines of health care. Really,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":183.54,"endTime":187.5,"body":"that's where, you know, doctors"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":183.54,"endTime":187.5,"body":"like me step in is, we've taken"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":187.5,"endTime":190.38,"body":"all these years of research that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":187.5,"endTime":190.38,"body":"have been hard fought by a lot"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":190.38,"endTime":193.11,"body":"of other investigators over many"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":190.38,"endTime":193.11,"body":"years and taken these new"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":193.11,"endTime":195.93,"body":"headsets that have been created,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":193.11,"endTime":195.93,"body":"and brought them up to the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":195.93,"endTime":200.13,"body":"clinic, or into the hospital,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":195.93,"endTime":200.13,"body":"and tested to see how it may be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":200.13,"endTime":203.97,"body":"useful for a wide range of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":200.13,"endTime":203.97,"body":"conditions. And we can talk"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":203.97,"endTime":205.62,"body":"about all those different use"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":203.97,"endTime":205.62,"body":"cases."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":205.679,"endTime":210.719,"body":"Yeah, so what are"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":205.679,"endTime":210.719,"body":"the really most proven or most"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":210.719,"endTime":214.769,"body":"effective use cases you've seen"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":210.719,"endTime":214.769,"body":"so far? In terms of VR in"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":214.769,"endTime":215.309,"body":"medicine,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":216.36,"endTime":219.66,"body":"probably"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":216.36,"endTime":219.66,"body":"the most researched is pain,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":219.99,"endTime":225.9,"body":"starting with acute pain, and to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":219.99,"endTime":225.9,"body":"a lesser degree chronic pain. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":225.9,"endTime":229.86,"body":"the literature around acute pain"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":225.9,"endTime":229.86,"body":"has been expanding for years"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":229.86,"endTime":232.89,"body":"now. And there's now even meta"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":229.86,"endTime":232.89,"body":"analyses, you know, studies of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":232.89,"endTime":237.33,"body":"studies that demonstrate a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":232.89,"endTime":237.33,"body":"consistent benefit of virtual"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":237.33,"endTime":241.71,"body":"reality, to manage acute pain."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":237.33,"endTime":241.71,"body":"And of course, some of the most"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":241.71,"endTime":245.16,"body":"famous research has come out of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":241.71,"endTime":245.16,"body":"the University of Washington"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":245.16,"endTime":249.48,"body":"with hunter Hoffman and his team"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":245.16,"endTime":249.48,"body":"using virtual reality and in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":249.48,"endTime":253.95,"body":"victims of severe burn injuries."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":249.48,"endTime":253.95,"body":"And you know, this is one of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":253.95,"endTime":258.9,"body":"most severe experiences pain"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":253.95,"endTime":258.9,"body":"experiences a human can sustain,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":259.14,"endTime":263.19,"body":"going, having a, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":259.14,"endTime":263.19,"body":"advanced burns, and then having"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":263.19,"endTime":267.09,"body":"to go through a bandage change,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":263.19,"endTime":267.09,"body":"for example, and he and his team"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":267.09,"endTime":270.72,"body":"have shown over the years that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":267.09,"endTime":270.72,"body":"virtual reality can reduce the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":270.84,"endTime":275.31,"body":"perceived pain during a bandage"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":270.84,"endTime":275.31,"body":"change among people with severe"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":275.31,"endTime":278.1,"body":"burn injuries, and even"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":275.31,"endTime":278.1,"body":"demonstrated that in a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":278.1,"endTime":281.04,"body":"randomized control trial, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":278.1,"endTime":281.04,"body":"what he shown is not only does"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":281.04,"endTime":285.81,"body":"it reduce the physical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":281.04,"endTime":285.81,"body":"experience of pain, but also the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":285.81,"endTime":290.1,"body":"emotional experience of pain,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":285.81,"endTime":290.1,"body":"and the cognitive experience of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":290.1,"endTime":294.27,"body":"pain. So it seems like virtual"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":290.1,"endTime":294.27,"body":"reality works by tamping down"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":294.27,"endTime":297.21,"body":"both the physical and emotional"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":294.27,"endTime":297.21,"body":"pain circuits in the brain and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":297.21,"endTime":299.82,"body":"he showed that even with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":297.21,"endTime":299.82,"body":"functional MRI scans of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":299.82,"endTime":305.25,"body":"brain Have people first without"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":299.82,"endTime":305.25,"body":"VR and then with VR. And so as a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":305.25,"endTime":307.62,"body":"result, you know, it's been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":305.25,"endTime":307.62,"body":"studied in a number of different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":307.62,"endTime":311.1,"body":"acute pain conditions. Our group"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":307.62,"endTime":311.1,"body":"has looked at this and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":311.1,"endTime":314.52,"body":"hospitalized patients and found"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":311.1,"endTime":314.52,"body":"benefits in a randomized trial."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":314.91,"endTime":318.6,"body":"We also recently looked at this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":314.91,"endTime":318.6,"body":"in labor and delivery, women"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":318.6,"endTime":322.11,"body":"undergoing childbirth, were"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":318.6,"endTime":322.11,"body":"randomized to experience a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":322.11,"endTime":328.8,"body":"Lamaze style VR treatment,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":322.11,"endTime":328.8,"body":"compared to no VR and recorded"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":328.8,"endTime":331.53,"body":"less pain. So there's a wide"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":328.8,"endTime":331.53,"body":"variety everywhere from"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":331.53,"endTime":337.83,"body":"dentistry to physical rehab, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":331.53,"endTime":337.83,"body":"lots of pain syndromes where VR"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":337.83,"endTime":338.94,"body":"seems to work quite well."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":340.26,"endTime":344.22,"body":"That's amazing."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":340.26,"endTime":344.22,"body":"What. But what are some of the"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":344.22,"endTime":349.26,"body":"challenges in trying to do"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":344.22,"endTime":349.26,"body":"research using VR and healthcare"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":349.26,"endTime":352.2,"body":"or even on the clinical wards?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":352.59,"endTime":355.38,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":352.59,"endTime":355.38,"body":"there's a number of challenges,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":355.38,"endTime":358.38,"body":"many of which we've been able to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":355.38,"endTime":358.38,"body":"overcome. I mean, the first is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":358.38,"endTime":361.95,"body":"just having availability of the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":358.38,"endTime":361.95,"body":"headsets themselves. And I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":361.95,"endTime":365.88,"body":"always say that the headset is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":361.95,"endTime":365.88,"body":"kind of like a syringe. And what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":365.88,"endTime":369.45,"body":"I mean by that is, it's not the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":365.88,"endTime":369.45,"body":"syringe that matters. It's the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":369.45,"endTime":373.2,"body":"medicine that goes through the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":369.45,"endTime":373.2,"body":"syringe that matters. And VR is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":373.23,"endTime":376.23,"body":"as a syringe in that it's like a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":373.23,"endTime":376.23,"body":"it's just a platform. What"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":376.23,"endTime":380.91,"body":"matters is the software that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":376.23,"endTime":380.91,"body":"we're using, what software are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":380.91,"endTime":384.21,"body":"we using for which patients What"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":380.91,"endTime":384.21,"body":"are people seeing and hearing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":384.21,"endTime":387.57,"body":"and feeling and experiencing? So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":384.21,"endTime":387.57,"body":"the first challenge is getting"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":387.57,"endTime":391.11,"body":"the right headsets, getting the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":387.57,"endTime":391.11,"body":"right software. And then you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":391.11,"endTime":393.54,"body":"know, there's a whole issue of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":391.11,"endTime":393.54,"body":"making sure we can clean these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":393.54,"endTime":398.1,"body":"headsets, decontaminate them,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":393.54,"endTime":398.1,"body":"which was always important even"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":398.1,"endTime":402.27,"body":"before pandemic, but COVID just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":398.1,"endTime":402.27,"body":"puts a point on that. So we've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":402.27,"endTime":407.28,"body":"developed a number of protocols,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":402.27,"endTime":407.28,"body":"which include UVC, exposure, UV"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":407.28,"endTime":413.52,"body":"light exposure, and specialized"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":407.28,"endTime":413.52,"body":"boxes, and topical, surface"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":413.55,"endTime":417.57,"body":"decontamination and so on. And"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":413.55,"endTime":417.57,"body":"then there's other challenges,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":417.57,"endTime":421.08,"body":"like just explaining it to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":417.57,"endTime":421.08,"body":"patients so that they're, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":421.08,"endTime":423.45,"body":"know, understanding what it is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":421.08,"endTime":423.45,"body":"that we're doing. And when we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":423.45,"endTime":426.45,"body":"first started doing this, some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":423.45,"endTime":426.45,"body":"patients were a bit hesitant to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":426.45,"endTime":430.23,"body":"use VR as part of their"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":426.45,"endTime":430.23,"body":"treatment. Over time, those more"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":430.23,"endTime":432.96,"body":"people become familiar with the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":430.23,"endTime":432.96,"body":"technology, we don't see as many"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":432.96,"endTime":437.25,"body":"barriers on that level. But"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":432.96,"endTime":437.25,"body":"that's just a sampling. There's,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":437.25,"endTime":440.04,"body":"you know, a number of other"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":437.25,"endTime":440.04,"body":"challenges, but we've been"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":440.13,"endTime":441.63,"body":"largely able to overcome them."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":443.19,"endTime":445.23,"body":"That's great. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":443.19,"endTime":445.23,"body":"it's"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":447.45,"endTime":451.68,"body":"I think, as you mentioned, you"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":447.45,"endTime":451.68,"body":"know, a number of highly, highly"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":451.68,"endTime":455.85,"body":"respected universities and"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":451.68,"endTime":455.85,"body":"hospitals are beginning to use"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":455.85,"endTime":462.54,"body":"it. And I've heard you recommend"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":455.85,"endTime":462.54,"body":"the idea of establishing a VR"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":462.81,"endTime":468.63,"body":"pharmacy or headset pharmacy,"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":462.81,"endTime":468.63,"body":"and you recommend that this"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":468.75,"endTime":473.04,"body":"would be more broadly used in"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":468.75,"endTime":473.04,"body":"hospital and medical practices,"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":473.13,"endTime":477.6,"body":"in that they make the investment"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":473.13,"endTime":477.6,"body":"both in the equipment and"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":477.6,"endTime":478.17,"body":"training?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":479.37,"endTime":481.8,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":479.37,"endTime":481.8,"body":"you know, I say, if VR is a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":481.8,"endTime":485.88,"body":"therapy, then we need a VR"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":481.8,"endTime":485.88,"body":"pharmacy. In fact, that's sort"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":485.88,"endTime":490.65,"body":"of the title of my new book,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":485.88,"endTime":490.65,"body":"which I call VR x. So you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":490.65,"endTime":493.89,"body":"Rx, like a prescription, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":490.65,"endTime":493.89,"body":"know, VR x or virtual"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":493.89,"endTime":498.27,"body":"prescription. And the whole"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":493.89,"endTime":498.27,"body":"notion is that, you know, as a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":498.27,"endTime":500.97,"body":"doctor, I wouldn't be a very"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":498.27,"endTime":500.97,"body":"good doctor, if I gave everyone"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":500.97,"endTime":504.0,"body":"the same medicine, I need to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":500.97,"endTime":504.0,"body":"pick the right medicine for the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":504.0,"endTime":507.15,"body":"right patient at the right time."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":504.0,"endTime":507.15,"body":"And similarly, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":507.15,"endTime":510.42,"body":"think about digit cuticles,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":507.15,"endTime":510.42,"body":"whether it's VR or otherwise, we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":510.42,"endTime":512.76,"body":"need to pick the right digit"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":510.42,"endTime":512.76,"body":"suitable for the right patient"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":512.76,"endTime":517.59,"body":"at the right time. And when for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":512.76,"endTime":517.59,"body":"VR, ideally, we would have a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":517.59,"endTime":523.5,"body":"library of, you know, 10s, if"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":517.59,"endTime":523.5,"body":"not hundreds, of different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":523.56,"endTime":527.73,"body":"evidence based therapeutic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":523.56,"endTime":527.73,"body":"programs that are specifically"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":527.73,"endTime":532.2,"body":"designed for different"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":527.73,"endTime":532.2,"body":"conditions. So you know, VR, for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":532.2,"endTime":535.35,"body":"example, has been used for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":532.2,"endTime":535.35,"body":"stroke rehabilitation, the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":535.35,"endTime":538.17,"body":"totally different experience"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":535.35,"endTime":538.17,"body":"than somebody using it for pain"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":538.17,"endTime":541.92,"body":"management. And even within pain"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":538.17,"endTime":541.92,"body":"management, it's very different."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":542.22,"endTime":546.54,"body":"If somebody's going through, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":542.22,"endTime":546.54,"body":"know, childbirth, compared to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":546.54,"endTime":551.22,"body":"somebody undergoing a spinal"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":546.54,"endTime":551.22,"body":"tap. Lots of big differences"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":551.22,"endTime":553.71,"body":"there. We have to think about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":551.22,"endTime":553.71,"body":"everything from what people are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":553.71,"endTime":556.47,"body":"seeing and experiencing the how"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":553.71,"endTime":556.47,"body":"much mobility Do they have at"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":556.47,"endTime":559.17,"body":"the time that they're undergoing"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":556.47,"endTime":559.17,"body":"VR? So that's the idea of having"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":559.17,"endTime":560.07,"body":"a VR pharmacy."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":560.64,"endTime":563.94,"body":"Yeah, so it's not"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":560.64,"endTime":563.94,"body":"just the equipment and the"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":563.94,"endTime":568.62,"body":"training, but it's also the"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":563.94,"endTime":568.62,"body":"software programs. And what what"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":568.62,"endTime":575.73,"body":"they're going to view once they"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":568.62,"endTime":575.73,"body":"put it on and having, like you"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":575.73,"endTime":579.96,"body":"said, a large enough library"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":575.73,"endTime":579.96,"body":"that's really specific to"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":580.71,"endTime":587.37,"body":"specific needs in health care."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":580.71,"endTime":587.37,"body":"Yeah. So So how can we scale"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":587.37,"endTime":592.17,"body":"this if it is as effective as"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":587.37,"endTime":592.17,"body":"you said, and the research is"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":592.17,"endTime":597.09,"body":"out there demonstrating that how"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":592.17,"endTime":597.09,"body":"can we get this to more"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":597.09,"endTime":599.94,"body":"patients? Do you think it's"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":597.09,"endTime":599.94,"body":"something that should be"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":600.0,"endTime":603.45,"body":"prescribed at home, for"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":600.0,"endTime":603.45,"body":"instance, as well as in the"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":603.45,"endTime":604.74,"body":"hospital and clinic."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":605.22,"endTime":607.59,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":605.22,"endTime":607.59,"body":"absolutely. So, you know, at"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":607.59,"endTime":611.97,"body":"this point, science really isn't"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":607.59,"endTime":611.97,"body":"the barrier to using VR. It's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":611.97,"endTime":615.36,"body":"it's all the other more mundane"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":611.97,"endTime":615.36,"body":"stuff that we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":615.36,"endTime":622.02,"body":"here, a staffing, availability,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":615.36,"endTime":622.02,"body":"insurance coverage, these sorts"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":622.02,"endTime":625.47,"body":"of questions that we need to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":622.02,"endTime":625.47,"body":"address now. And, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":625.47,"endTime":628.14,"body":"need more science, there's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":625.47,"endTime":628.14,"body":"always a need for more science,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":628.14,"endTime":631.77,"body":"but there's, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":628.14,"endTime":631.77,"body":"over 5000 studies now, and I've"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":631.77,"endTime":634.59,"body":"written a whole book about this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":631.77,"endTime":634.59,"body":"about, you know, the research"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":634.59,"endTime":638.1,"body":"supporting VR, I just to be"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":634.59,"endTime":638.1,"body":"clear, you know, VR isn't some"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":638.1,"endTime":645.72,"body":"miracle, it's, it's a way to, to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":638.1,"endTime":645.72,"body":"modify our consciousness, using"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":645.72,"endTime":651.48,"body":"basic principles, to move people"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":645.72,"endTime":651.48,"body":"from unhealthy perceptions to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":651.48,"endTime":655.32,"body":"healthy perceptions, or to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":651.48,"endTime":655.32,"body":"promote certain behaviors or"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":655.32,"endTime":658.44,"body":"certain motions, physical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":655.32,"endTime":658.44,"body":"motions, for example, in rehab,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":658.74,"endTime":663.24,"body":"it's not a magic wand, and ideas"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":658.74,"endTime":663.24,"body":"that should be used to augment"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":663.57,"endTime":667.56,"body":"traditional therapies. So what"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":663.57,"endTime":667.56,"body":"that requires is that we have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":667.56,"endTime":670.8,"body":"some kind of a service that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":667.56,"endTime":670.8,"body":"supports traditional medical"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":670.8,"endTime":673.68,"body":"therapies, we call this the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":670.8,"endTime":673.68,"body":"virtual list. And the virtual"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":673.68,"endTime":677.46,"body":"list is, you know, the clinician"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":673.68,"endTime":677.46,"body":"whose job it is to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":677.46,"endTime":681.3,"body":"use the VR in partnership with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":677.46,"endTime":681.3,"body":"other doctors, and that will,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":681.3,"endTime":685.59,"body":"over time require a VR type"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":681.3,"endTime":685.59,"body":"clinic. So at Cedars Sinai,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":685.62,"endTime":689.19,"body":"we're currently working on"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":685.62,"endTime":689.19,"body":"developing such a clinic, where"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":689.22,"endTime":693.6,"body":"outside of research, people can"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":689.22,"endTime":693.6,"body":"go to receive VR treatments,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":693.69,"endTime":696.24,"body":"both on the outpatient side"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":693.69,"endTime":696.24,"body":"answer that question, and on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":696.24,"endTime":699.21,"body":"inpatient side. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":696.24,"endTime":699.21,"body":"we're also working with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":699.21,"endTime":703.83,"body":"insurance companies to educate"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":699.21,"endTime":703.83,"body":"them about this therapy, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":703.83,"endTime":707.49,"body":"think about all the things"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":703.83,"endTime":707.49,"body":"insurance pays for that far"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":707.49,"endTime":710.97,"body":"exceed, you know, the direct"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":707.49,"endTime":710.97,"body":"costs required to use a VR"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":710.97,"endTime":714.72,"body":"headset, and it's just no"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":710.97,"endTime":714.72,"body":"comparison. You know, think"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":714.72,"endTime":719.28,"body":"about like a robotic surgery for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":714.72,"endTime":719.28,"body":"prostate cancer. You know, these"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":719.28,"endTime":725.01,"body":"are these are multimillion"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":719.28,"endTime":725.01,"body":"dollar robots that provide a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":725.01,"endTime":728.34,"body":"tiny bit of benefit over a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":725.01,"endTime":728.34,"body":"traditional hand-sewn"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":728.7,"endTime":732.12,"body":"prostatectomy, but insurance"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":728.7,"endTime":732.12,"body":"will cover it. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":732.12,"endTime":734.01,"body":"what we're talking about here"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":732.12,"endTime":734.01,"body":"are a couple hundred dollar"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":734.01,"endTime":738.87,"body":"headsets and software. And, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":734.01,"endTime":738.87,"body":"know, the business model around"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":738.87,"endTime":742.32,"body":"that I don't think is all that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":738.87,"endTime":742.32,"body":"challenging, as long as we can"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":742.32,"endTime":745.68,"body":"get insurance companies to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":742.32,"endTime":745.68,"body":"recognize the benefits of VR,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":745.68,"endTime":749.37,"body":"which is just requiring somebody"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":745.68,"endTime":749.37,"body":"read through the science. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":749.37,"endTime":751.74,"body":"these are the things we're"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":749.37,"endTime":751.74,"body":"working on now is how do we"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":751.74,"endTime":755.67,"body":"implement this at scale?"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":751.74,"endTime":755.67,"body":"throughout both inpatient and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":755.67,"endTime":757.02,"body":"outpatient environments?"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":758.49,"endTime":762.0,"body":"Yeah, and in terms"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":758.49,"endTime":762.0,"body":"of its effectiveness to there is"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":762.0,"endTime":766.89,"body":"some of the research around"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":762.0,"endTime":766.89,"body":"preventing dependence on"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":767.22,"endTime":769.26,"body":"prescription of opioids."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":769.8,"endTime":771.66,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":769.8,"endTime":771.66,"body":"that's another area of great"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":771.66,"endTime":775.62,"body":"interest, because this addresses"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":771.66,"endTime":775.62,"body":"the area of chronic pain, I was"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":775.62,"endTime":779.52,"body":"earlier talking more about acute"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":775.62,"endTime":779.52,"body":"pain, you know, labor and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":779.52,"endTime":785.01,"body":"delivery, you know, spinal tap,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":779.52,"endTime":785.01,"body":"you know, colonoscopy, these are"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":785.01,"endTime":788.97,"body":"all examples, you know, burn"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":785.01,"endTime":788.97,"body":"injuries, where VR is used for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":788.97,"endTime":794.1,"body":"short term management of pain,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":788.97,"endTime":794.1,"body":"but chronic pain, whereas acute"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":794.1,"endTime":797.43,"body":"pain is a symptom, chronic pain"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":794.1,"endTime":797.43,"body":"is a disease unto itself a bio"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":797.43,"endTime":802.65,"body":"psychosocial illness experience."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":797.43,"endTime":802.65,"body":"And so we're doing research"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":802.65,"endTime":806.1,"body":"right now supported by the NIH,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":802.65,"endTime":806.1,"body":"for example, looking at"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":806.1,"endTime":810.06,"body":"different forms of virtual"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":806.1,"endTime":810.06,"body":"reality, for chronic lower back"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":810.06,"endTime":814.02,"body":"pain, and monitoring people not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":810.06,"endTime":814.02,"body":"for just hours, or even days,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":814.02,"endTime":818.79,"body":"but for up to up to three months"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":814.02,"endTime":818.79,"body":"to see if there's sustained"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":818.82,"endTime":822.24,"body":"differences in the pain"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":818.82,"endTime":822.24,"body":"experience, stratified by"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":822.24,"endTime":826.14,"body":"different types of virtual"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":822.24,"endTime":826.14,"body":"reality. So you know, the goal,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":826.14,"endTime":831.12,"body":"of course, is to reduce opioid"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":826.14,"endTime":831.12,"body":"use, as well as reducing pain."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":831.84,"endTime":837.6,"body":"There is some evidence already"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":831.84,"endTime":837.6,"body":"that VR is similar to opioids in"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":837.6,"endTime":840.81,"body":"reducing acute pain in terms of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":837.6,"endTime":840.81,"body":"the effect size that it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":840.81,"endTime":844.5,"body":"achieves. A number of studies"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":840.81,"endTime":844.5,"body":"have shown that now, including"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":844.5,"endTime":851.16,"body":"one head to head study against a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":844.5,"endTime":851.16,"body":"vikan. But we don't have long"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":851.16,"endTime":854.16,"body":"term evidence yet that it can"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":851.16,"endTime":854.16,"body":"reduce opioids. That's one of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":854.16,"endTime":856.86,"body":"the studies we're doing with"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":854.16,"endTime":856.86,"body":"NIH. And hopefully we'll have"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":856.86,"endTime":860.31,"body":"more information to record over"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":856.86,"endTime":860.31,"body":"the coming years as well others"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":860.37,"endTime":862.74,"body":"as they continue to explore this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":860.37,"endTime":862.74,"body":"possibility."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":863.49,"endTime":865.41,"body":"Yeah, that would be"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":863.49,"endTime":865.41,"body":"great addition of"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":867.21,"endTime":872.37,"body":"that is proven effective. Right?"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":867.21,"endTime":872.37,"body":"Well, before we sign off, he's"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":872.37,"endTime":875.43,"body":"already mentioned your book"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":872.37,"endTime":875.43,"body":"that's coming out. Very"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":875.43,"endTime":876.75,"body":"exciting. And"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":878.31,"endTime":880.47,"body":"tell us more about what's coming"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":878.31,"endTime":880.47,"body":"up for you."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":881.219,"endTime":886.559,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":881.219,"endTime":886.559,"body":"the book is out now and just"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":886.559,"endTime":890.249,"body":"come out here in October 2020."},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":886.559,"endTime":890.249,"body":"As we're recording this, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":890.399,"endTime":893.999,"body":"this it's called a VR x and the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":890.399,"endTime":893.999,"body":"book really, it's about VR, but"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":893.999,"endTime":896.639,"body":"it's really about what does VR"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":893.999,"endTime":896.639,"body":"teach us about our own"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":896.639,"endTime":899.879,"body":"consciousness? What does it"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":896.639,"endTime":899.879,"body":"teach us about how the mind and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":899.879,"endTime":904.049,"body":"body are connected. And you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":899.879,"endTime":904.049,"body":"know, how can we use it as a"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":904.049,"endTime":908.159,"body":"legitimate tool within Western"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":904.049,"endTime":908.159,"body":"medicine to advance Mind Body"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":908.159,"endTime":911.909,"body":"medicine across a wide range of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":908.159,"endTime":911.909,"body":"different conditions, some of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":911.909,"endTime":914.849,"body":"which we've talked about today,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":911.909,"endTime":914.849,"body":"others, including, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":914.849,"endTime":917.609,"body":"everything from Post Traumatic"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":914.849,"endTime":917.609,"body":"Stress Disorder to eating"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":917.609,"endTime":922.229,"body":"disorders to dementia and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":917.609,"endTime":922.229,"body":"schizophrenia, and many other"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":922.229,"endTime":924.899,"body":"conditions. So the book tells"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":922.229,"endTime":924.899,"body":"the frontline stories of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":924.899,"endTime":929.369,"body":"patients, and doctors and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":924.899,"endTime":929.369,"body":"researchers who are using"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":929.399,"endTime":933.059,"body":"medical extended reality on the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":929.399,"endTime":933.059,"body":"frontlines of care and that term"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":933.059,"endTime":936.449,"body":"medical extended reality comes"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":933.059,"endTime":936.449,"body":"from the FDA. And that kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":936.449,"endTime":939.929,"body":"answers your question about"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":936.449,"endTime":939.929,"body":"what's next is the FDA now"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":939.929,"endTime":943.709,"body":"recognizes this really, as a new"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":939.929,"endTime":943.709,"body":"field of medicine is the way I"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":943.709,"endTime":947.849,"body":"think about it, they call it m"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":943.709,"endTime":947.849,"body":"xR, medical extended reality. So"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":947.849,"endTime":950.159,"body":"you know that when the FDA is"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":947.849,"endTime":950.159,"body":"looking at it seriously, and"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":950.159,"endTime":953.399,"body":"thinking about the regulatory"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":950.159,"endTime":953.399,"body":"landscape around this, this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":953.429,"endTime":957.269,"body":"field, that it's starting to"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":953.429,"endTime":957.269,"body":"become a real codified, you"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":957.269,"endTime":961.019,"body":"know, field of medicine, not"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":957.269,"endTime":961.019,"body":"just an area of research within"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":961.019,"endTime":964.469,"body":"psychology laboratories, which"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":961.019,"endTime":964.469,"body":"is created the foundation for"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":964.469,"endTime":968.279,"body":"what we're doing, but now a true"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":964.469,"endTime":968.279,"body":"clinical discipline. And my hope"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":968.279,"endTime":972.569,"body":"is, in the next, you know, five"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":968.279,"endTime":972.569,"body":"years, certainly 10 years that"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":972.599,"endTime":976.259,"body":"we're going to see this field"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":972.599,"endTime":976.259,"body":"expand, that we'll start to see"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":976.259,"endTime":978.479,"body":"virtual lists, who are really"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":976.259,"endTime":978.479,"body":"learning how to use this"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":978.479,"endTime":981.749,"body":"technology. And in the last"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":978.479,"endTime":981.749,"body":"chapter of the book, I, I sort"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":981.749,"endTime":985.349,"body":"of spell out what this might"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":981.749,"endTime":985.349,"body":"look like and what everyday life"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":985.349,"endTime":988.739,"body":"in the hospital might look like,"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":985.349,"endTime":988.739,"body":"and in the clinics with the"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":988.739,"endTime":993.689,"body":"availability of really high"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":988.739,"endTime":993.689,"body":"quality mixed reality technology"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":993.929,"endTime":996.809,"body":"to expand our capabilities"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":993.929,"endTime":996.809,"body":"beyond what we currently can do"},{"speaker":"Dr. Brennan Spiegel","startTime":996.809,"endTime":998.459,"body":"as doctors and clinicians."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":999.15,"endTime":1002.39,"body":"Well, that's great."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":999.15,"endTime":1002.39,"body":"It's very exciting to look into"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":1002.39,"endTime":1010.19,"body":"the future and seeing this in"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":1002.39,"endTime":1010.19,"body":"common practice. So well,"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":1010.19,"endTime":1014.72,"body":"thanks, Dr. Spiegel, and thanks"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":1010.19,"endTime":1014.72,"body":"for everyone listening today."},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":1014.72,"endTime":1019.49,"body":"Please subscribe our podcast"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":1014.72,"endTime":1019.49,"body":"drop every other Wednesday at"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":1019.49,"endTime":1023.78,"body":"noon. And join us for the"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":1019.49,"endTime":1023.78,"body":"accelerate health digital series"},{"speaker":"John Sharp","startTime":1023.78,"endTime":1026.69,"body":"go to hims.org slash events,"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":1027.079,"endTime":1028.999,"body":"and we hope you"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":1027.079,"endTime":1028.999,"body":"will join us for future"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":1028.999,"endTime":1034.369,"body":"episodes. Until then, be bold,"},{"speaker":"Kerry Amato","startTime":1028.999,"endTime":1034.369,"body":"be you and keep on accelerating."}]}