ELLEN ANCUI: Granny Dumping, Storytelling, and the Fight for Dignity in Aging

What happens when society looks away from its most vulnerable?

In this episode of Love Conquers Alz, hosts Susie Singer Carter and Don Priess welcome WGA, AWD, award-winning, neurodiverse, bi, writer/director, and podcaster, Ellen Ancui, who specializes in traumadies—darkly funny stories where (mostly) women dig their own graves, then complain about the landscaping. Ellen writes about caregiving, sex, and the 2nd act of a creative life. She co-hosts the pod FILTHY MILFS with Sophie Levine, about women’s health, desire, and aging fearlessly. 

Ellen wrote, produced, and directed the Oscar-qualified short film, SAVERIO, that sheds light on a shocking and often invisible issue: elder abandonment, also known as “granny dumping.”

Through a powerful blend of humor and humanity, Ellen’s film tells the story of a young woman forced to confront her own values when an elderly man is abandoned in her care—an all-too-real scenario happening far more often than most people realize.

This episode is both a wake-up call and a reminder of what’s at stake if we continue to look away.

Because aging is not someone else’s story.
It’s all of ours.

And change starts with awareness.

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If someone you love experienced neglect in a nursing home…Then you know how desperately the system needs to change.  History has shown us that It takes people power to change anything worthwhile. That’s why we we’re launching something that’s never been done before. On September 27, communities across the country are coming together for the first-ever National Long-Term Care Reform Day.This is a peaceful national walk for dignity, accountability, and change in long-term care.We’r

Transcript

Love, Loss, And No Cure

Susie SInger Carter 1:07

When the world has got shut down and Alzheimer's sucks.

Don Priess 1:13

It's an equal opportunity disease that chips away at everything we hold dear. And to date, there's no cure. So until there is, we continue to fight with the most powerful tool in our arsenal. Love. This is Love Conquers Alls, a real and really positive podcast that takes a deep dive into everything Alzheimer's, the good, the bad, and everything in between. And now, here are your hosts, Susie Singer Carter and me, Don Priest.

Susie SInger Carter 1:47

Hello, everybody. It's Susie Singer-Carter.

Don Priess 1:50

And I'm Don Priest, and this is Love Conquers Alls. Hello, Susan.

Susie SInger Carter 1:55

Hola. How are you, Donald?

Don Priess 1:57

I am terrific. And uh, how are things in your life?

Susie SInger Carter 2:01

Well, you know, I stabbed I stabbed my eye last week, not on purpose.

Don Priess 2:06

It's looking so much better.

Susie SInger Carter 2:08

It is, but it still looks really dark. It looks like I I like I didn't sleep well. But it's it's yeah, I'm making excuses because I'm so vain this way. I have so I cannot cover the bruises. Well, but it it's such a freak accident. I just have to share it with you guys because if you I was going to bend over and pick a weed out of my beautiful garden that I've created, and did not notice that there was a stalk, an iris stalk that is like literally a sword, hadn't opened its flower yet, it went directly in my its stiff, it went directly into my eyeball, like in the eyeball. And I was like, and my contact lens flew out, and I was like, my hand instinctively went up like this, and I was like, my eyeball is going to fall out. And I will be all the things, all the things. I'm gonna be blind. How do I do it? What how shall I look? What will I look like? What's gonna happen? Who how do I explain this freak accident? And um, so I went to the ER and thank God for Chat GPT because it talked me through it. It's like Susie, I'm here with you. Don't even worry about it. Here's what you need to talk to ask the doctor this, and it starts asking me questions, and it's like I was afraid to look. It had it was gross.

Don Priess 3:23

It was you literally like look like if, you know, in a in a horror film in a horror film, science fiction film. I mean, her eye was black with and black. I mean, it was blood red, but it was dark blood red, and there was no white of her eyes. Everywhere, the all over bubbling and it was really cute. It was bubbling and no one's eating right now.

Susie SInger Carter 3:42

Yeah, don't eat, don't eat and listen to this. It's so disgusting. But it I thought that my eye was gonna fall out, like it was gonna be, and then my friend said, Well, Alison, my friend that's a mutual friend of our guest, that's said to me, Maybe it'll be maybe your eye will change color. You'll have two different color eyes because that happened to David Bowie. And then I was like, I like that. Maybe that would be very cool. And I would thought for a second it was, but it was hard to tell because the white of my eye was so swollen that the color part, the iris part, was sunken in. No, it was so horrible that I wore a patch. Patches are not good. You have no peripheral vision, so I'm pouring coffee to the side. It's not a good this is not good. It's not elegant.

Don Priess 4:27

New depth perception, yeah.

Meet Filmmaker Ellen Onsui

Susie SInger Carter 4:29

No depth perception. It's terrible. So now it's it's got that nice yellowy look like jaundice, and the blood is going. It's really lovely. It's I'm attractive right now. I could probably pull a bot, I could pull somebody, right?

Don Priess 4:41

Now absolutely, without question.

Susie SInger Carter 4:43

What do you think, Don? You're a goddamn.

Don Priess 4:45

Yeah, there's a lot of weird people on the internet. Say the right thing for it.

Susie SInger Carter 4:48

You better say Oh, thanks.

unknown 4:50

Thanks.

Susie SInger Carter 4:52

Thanks so much. I could wear, I can continue to wear the patch, it's a good look, I think. Yeah. I just won't I won't be able to walk well. Just sit me down and then I can look cool.

Don Priess 5:08

I can feel it. You're back, your energy's back.

Susie SInger Carter 5:11

Dancing. The first thing I asked him is, Do I can I still go to my hip-hop class? He said, Yes, you can do that.

unknown 5:18

Yeah.

Susie SInger Carter 5:18

So then therefore, life was still good because I can dance. And our guest that's going to be on in two seconds, she's supposed to come and dance with me.

Don Priess 5:28

She will do that.

Susie SInger Carter 5:29

She's still threatening to, but she still hasn't come. I keep telling her.

Don Priess 5:33

She's very busy.

Susie SInger Carter 5:34

I she's busy, but come on. Come on. I want to see this team. Okay, I'm just setting it up. I'm setting up all the things, all the words. All the words are coming out right now. All right, so uh I know you usually do the introductions, but I just want to preface this by saying before you do everything, is that this is not only an incredible filmmaker and activist and uh a caregiver and um incredible human being that I really admire. Um that, you know, she's just a good person, she's talented, she's um, and by the way, I was looking at her bio. I didn't know she was neurodivergent, and I want to ask about that. So I'm very interested in that. See, she's very sexy that way. She has a lot of things going on. She's very, very like surprising, and surprising is sexy, right? I'm I'm leaning into the sexy because she also has a podcast called Filthy MILFs. And so I know, yeah. And it's really good, you guys. I was a guest, I was a little afraid. Like I can, but I guess I was okay. I did okay. I stood up. They're they're very funny. It's a great podcast, so putting the word out there. So, anyway, introduce her so we can get talking because we have a lot to talk about.

Don Priess 6:51

I'll do that right now. Ellen Onsui is an award-winning writer and director known for what she calls traumedies, darkly funny stories where women dig their own graves and complain about the landscaping. A neurodiverse storyteller from Long Island, Ellen has written for television, including Malcolm and Eddie, founded New York's solo arts group, and even gave the original Upright Citizens Brigade their first home. She's the co-host of the completely outrageous, outspoken, uncensored podcast, Filthy MILFs. Her directorial debut, Severio, shines a light on a form of elder abuse called granny dumping. It's now an Oscar-qualified short for 2027, has played dozens of festivals worldwide, winning multiple audience awards and a directing honor from New York women in film and television. And now she's developing the feature version of Severio. And in her spare time, she loves being a guest on Love Conquers Alls. So let's not wait another moment and say hello to the one, the only, Ellen Onsweek. Hello, Ellen.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Hello, Dolly.

Don Priess 7:59

Bless you.

Susie SInger Carter 8:00

Bless you.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Yes.

Susie SInger Carter 8:03

I am like I was I'm kicking myself like, why didn't I have you on even earlier to talk about this? This is where my I've been so busy thinking about, you know, nonprofits and and being like uh uh you know Jane Fonda and getting out there and advocating trying to to do do that thing. But you know, I'm I'm I'm settling down now. I'm getting a I'm getting my groove back. Got my groove back.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

It's a lot to start a nonprofit. My gosh. I mean, you're kidding me, right? On top of everything. It's just you just weren't busy enough. Yes, she didn't have enough to do.

Susie SInger Carter 8:42

It's I don't know, maybe it's a sickness. Like I just don't want to face that. I just need to keep busy.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Like, I know I think it's something um as we you know age gracefully and fearlessly. We are full of more, you know, ideas, life experience that we just want to put to to use. And so that's what's happening. I'm telling you. It's exciting.

Susie SInger Carter 9:04

I get excited. So we we saw your movie, we saw the short film last year. I I think I was like one of the first to see at your first uh screening, and I absolutely loved it. And I was like, uh this is audiences are gonna love it, the way that you framed it, the whole the whole story, this this sort of um unexpected uh journey, sojourn of this woman, this young woman who you would never expect. It's the unexpected, right? Of of having to pick up the pieces in our society that we're our society has uh disregarded and and it's left it to you know people who aren't really uh trained or or even know about these situations, right? They're not equipped to be able to to handle this and and so I know Don, you you gave a can you give us a little synopsis, short synopsis of the film because it's yeah, and then we'll talk because I have questions.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Well, I call it a coming of aging dramedy. That's my little play on the word. And uh it's about a young, very ambitious woman, she's in her twenties, she's on her way to a big networking party, and she makes a quick stop at a convenience store, but when she gets back in her car, an old man has been abandoned in the front seat. And now she has to grapple with, you know getting to this party that she's already late for and dealing with this abandoned old man. Um and it really tests her uh morality, her her priorities, and it's uh like you say there's a lot of surprises, her humanity, her empathy. You know, I also say it's a journey of empathy. And I do appreciate you mentioning you talking about the surprises because I try to build in a surprise every step of the way. Because that is uh uh uh one of the truths around caregiving. You cannot predict it. You do not know I mean you plan and plan and plan, and even if you don't plan, which many people don't and still there is just so many surprises and unknowns because you know uh uh we're dealing with the aging person and it's not something that we don't talk about it lived. We don't talk about it, we don't have enough information on it, there's not enough dignity around it. Um there is more shame than dignity around it, or you know, people must want it to go away rather than embrace it as a part of our journey. Yeah. So anyway, um that's that's the story. It does sort of grip the audience pretty quickly and um there is a lot of comedy in it, just in her behavior and how she responds to him and also how he responds. But um and and actually I did that on purpose because I wanted the audience to be entertained as well. It is film after all. Um I don't always love, you know, being uh taught things in movies, but if I'm taught things through an entertaining way without you know, learning without learning, then I I tend to really appreciate that. So I took it.

Don Priess 12:13

But it wasn't preachy, it didn't feel preachy at all in any way, shape, or form. You know, it's organic.

Susie SInger Carter 12:19

It's organic. I mean, I think I feel like my mom and the girl and and your film is so there's so many things that are similar in you know, that it comes from authenticity, and so it that when you're authentic with your storytelling, then it doesn't you really can resonate with everybody, even if it's not their story and they've not experienced it, when it's authentic, it it pings really well. Um right?

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah, I think so. I mean look, we always knew older people would relate to it either because they were caring for their parents or because they're an older person, you know, facing this now. But I more than anything, I wanted the young people to connect to it because I wanted them, they're our future. I wanted them to see themselves and develop empathy as well. And um, it has played so successfully on that level. I can't even tell you. That is the most gratifying thing. Um the young people, in fact, I think get more out of it than anybody else. And that's it's so important.

Susie SInger Carter 13:26

It it was my surprise too, because before we even did it, I mean I would tell the story about, you know, I thought these three disparate women who should have never ever met, you know, in in any other situation except that one had Alzheimer's. And and you know, I I was like, just what the world needs is another Alzheimer's film, no one's gonna want to see it. And then I thought, well, maybe this is an opportunity because it it is it's unique, it there's a lot of humor. My mom was just funny, so she fed it. It was like I I couldn't write the shit that I got from mom. And it was just a matter of like puzzling it together, and and it really gives people permission to laugh when you provide that for them, and it it gives them permission to lean in, don't you think?

SPEAKER_01 14:11

I do, yeah. I think that's really an important ingredient, just in storytelling in general. Um, so it is something that uh I I tr I try to do, I also I I feel like it gives me a little leeway to then go deeper, maybe get a little more uncomfortable because I've given the audience a little safety with I'll take care of you, I'm gonna make you laugh, I'm gonna entertain you now, I might drop you into something uncomfortable, but it's okay.

Susie SInger Carter 14:37

I got you. A hundred percent. And I and I I love that you're connecting with younger generations because that's part of our mission too with Roar is to connect with younger generations. So because this is it's equal opportunity, we're all getting older. It was a surprise to us when after a screening, we'd have young couples come up like that, you know, clearly in college age and saying, Oh, thank you so much, that's my grandma or that's my aunt, and oh my gosh, it so makes so much sense, and da-da-da. You know, it was just that's that's such uh those are the awards that you get and the letters I'm sure you get so many, so many people writing you and thanking you, and and you don't even realize how many people that you're shifting in their way that they look at things.

What Granny Dumping Really Means

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Well, it's only in the film festival circuit. So it's a limited amount of people, right? It's the audiences who are part of a community that's enthusiastic about seeing film and specifically short films, which you know there are some platforms out there um and and YouTube, etc. But um the idea, and that's why I want to do the feature version, is there's way more story to be told about the caregiving. Yeah, you know. I mean you did it with your documentary, you know. Um Yeah.

Susie SInger Carter 15:59

I was going to I actually wrote the script for my mom and the girl because people said, This is what happens after when they cross that street. Like, where are they going? And then I don't know what I got sidetracked with another job and whatever. It the point was is that I think they got enough out of it. I almost think it's better for me that they didn't know what happened after. It doesn't matter because what was important is that those three women significantly changed each other's life and made made you know a difference. Um talk about granny dumping because I don't think people really understand it, and it's such a problem, and it's part of you know that that this whole broken elder care system that we're live with and that we need to reform. But talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

So it I experienced it firsthand, and that's how I found out about it. I was at the Albertsons in Los Feles. I came out and there was a crowd surrounding uh an old man who had been abandoned, and I only found out, you know, from talking to the other people there, and the manager was very, you know, reassuring and don't worry, folks, and we've got this taken care of, and social services is coming. So I when I got back to my apartment, I started to research it, and then the term granny dumping came up, which is a phrase that was coined in the eighties by sociologists. So um it had been obviously a problem for a while. And the statistics are in just America alone, over a hundred thousand people a year are abandoned, and usually by fa family members or people who are just no longer able to or who no longer want to take care of them. And you know, you more often than not, they're people with Alzheimer's because as you know, it's a very challenging disease to be alongside. Um and so that becomes untenable for some people. They don't have the facilities, they don't you reach out to the various resources that are out there. They may not have uh the ability to afford certain resources that would make their lives a lot easier. In fact, uh I saw a film, a short film in the same block as mine at one of the festivals. Uh the flip side. And we get the fifty something year old son who's just at his wit's end with his, you know, eighty-something year old Alzheimer's mother, and she's rather abusive in terms of unappreciating him, comparing him to her other son, who's just the bee's niece, but of course he's not there helping to take care of things. You you realize that I mean, even though they have decent clothing on, they have no money, they have no resources, every they have no health insurance. And so he ends up in a park with her, they're just walking, and he's just taking the beating, the verbal beating from her over and over. And you know he leaves her there and he calls uh the the police and plays dumb. I don't know. There seems to be a woman in the park, she's all alone, I thought you should know. Um so it's devastating. And I'm not gonna say you um uh agree with what he did, but there is a side to it that you could see. Understand.

Susie SInger Carter 19:16

You can understand it. And it's really a statistics.

Don Priess 19:19

Oh, go ahead, Casey. Yeah.

Susie SInger Carter 19:21

Oh no, I was just gonna say that that you know i again it goes back to the system and setting it in the way the system's set up, it doesn't support people who have dementia, it doesn't support them their families properly, it doesn't give them the tools that they need to be caregivers that can actually survive caregiving. And also I just wanted to add in terms of granite dumping is that it it also often happens from hospitals. So somebody will, because if someone doesn't have Medicaid and they just have their Medicare and then they get and they have they have Alzheimer's or some form of dementia, they go into the hospital and they don't they they don't have their own voice, they have no place to go afterwards and nobody to care for them, and um and for it they there's no reason for them to go into rehab, so they don't know what to do with them, they put them on the corner. They did literally the hospital puts them on the street, and that is uh that is absolutely shameful that that this is.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Oh, it's disgusting and disgraceful and it's um shocking. And I um I I've been made to um understand that some of the homeless people or many of the elderly homeless people who seem crazy are these, you know, victims. And what's also interesting is I I mean it i it it's revealed in many different ways or it's expressed in many different ways, Granny Dumping. I as a result of doing these Q ⁇ A's on the film festival circuit have heard from many people who have either experienced it or seen it, or in one situation, one QA, there was a woman who said Um I need to tell you a story. This happened fifteen years ago, and I y uh this is a big like aha moment. We were in a theater in New York City and there was an old person there, and um they were there when we arrived sitting in the seat and they still were there when we left, and I'm realizing now that was a person who was abandoned. And she started bawling her eyes out and the whole theater just like you know. And then just this last film festival I was at, um a woman came up to me, she said, I'm a nurse, I've been uh at the State Run facility for about I don't know many, many years. We see people dumped in the back of our building all the time. It's just heartbreaking. It's just a human being.

Don Priess 21:51

Are there statistics as to what what how many are either have dementia, Alzheimer's, and how many are just physically disabled? Uh it's or it just runs the gamut and you know, because obviously somebody who's who's still got their mental capacity, they can go and ask for help. Or if somebody with you know with dementia, that's not going to be an option. And now nobody knows, you know, they at least those other uh people I'm not gonna say that they're positive, they know where they came from. I would assume it's more people with dementia Alzheimer's because it's less easy to trace.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

They say that, and they say that um and it might also be people who are either schizophrenic and untreated or undiagnosed and or some other type of yeah, mental illness. Um yeah, so it's it's I don't know how many statistics there are around that, but when I was uh learning about it, they they did say the majority of people have Alzheimer's or dementia.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Yeah.

Susie SInger Carter 22:52

Right. And then and the problem is that in a certain stage of Alzheimer's and dementia, you can unless you really know the signs, you can they can be mistaken for you know mental illness. And a lot of people, like my mom, got locked up in in 72 hours.

Calling 911 And System Failure

SPEAKER_01 23:07

hour lockup when she was having being she was agitated on her way to the doctor's office when they were taking her from her facility and instead of understanding that she has Alzheimer's they just thought she was having a psych you know psychotic break and this is what happens too so they you know we just as a society we just don't have uh enough knowledge about this and we also people with dementia are so stigmatized that they're even in the healthcare system they are the bottom of the of the you know yeah of of the res of the what's the word um food chain she they're at the bottom of the food chain it's like they have Alzheimer's they have dementia and they're old let's push them out so yeah so what's the big deal right they're not gonna know anyone's attitude right that's that's the attitude no I think I think that's it that's right and um and even from the family members who may feel bad about it but probably ultimately feel unburdened and um and that's the other sad thing that they haven't been supported in a way that they could you know again empathize and move through this with dignity all around. I mean I to me the word that I use over and over again is dignity around it and I don't know how we get that in our society or how we encourage people to figure it out regardless of uh income and you know social socioeconomic status.

Susie SInger Carter 24:39

It's humanity it again it comes down to like we we have our priorities and what we what we covet as you know valuable is not is not a human being anymore. It's what they can bring to society. And at a certain age you know we've decided that that they are the only thing they're worth is is how much you can bill off of them until you can't bill off of them anymore. So they become a commodity a you know and and a bottom a bott yeah or they or you can bill off of them. So that's like you know they become a warehouse a something in a warehouse until they don't until they're not worthwhile at all. So and and because we are an age society I'm gonna get on my soapbox now but because we're on an age of society we can't you know it's very difficult for people to look at that as as actually happening and that that that that we should actually care about it and why does that happen? Because we're afraid because everybody's actually afraid to look at it. It's scary.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

So I and that's I mean also I don't know that um we're teaching enough about caregiving in general and what that looks like and what that means. And I think people think they hear the word caregiving and they think changing diapers or the you know what I mean it just like goes right to something horrible versus showing up you know just being there. And I and I don't know I mean that's another thing that I'm hoping you know we can impart to certainly to these young people but to everybody that just show up you know and just be there. That's the first and most important thing.

Susie SInger Carter 26:22

And community it's community.

Don Priess 26:25

Yeah it is kind of a two part question. If you were to come upon somebody that you suspect this has happened to uh d do you go to the police you know what what is what steps do you take and does our system is there are there penalties for dumping your loved one and you know leaving them abandoned is what what is the Yeah there are it's not legal to do that.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Um you know you they they create safe havens for babies fire stations you know if people want to abandon their babies but they don't really for I mean people will leave them outside of a nursing home. Um so I mean I guess that's their best you know effort. My daughter is adopted and she was abandoned she was left outside an orphanage. So maybe it's no surprise I have a kinship to this subject matter. Totally totally yeah I mean she was abandoned she was left in a in a box you know and uh wrapped in wool and cotton and it was you know like something ridiculous like ten degrees below zero. She was hospitalized for three months um she couldn't stay in the orphanage because she was on the verge of death for a long time. Right and uh pulled through it. Yeah she's awesome.

Susie SInger Carter 27:46

Um very empathetic actually no doubt no doubt she she just is yeah that has nothing to do with me that was just her for no but just he yeah yeah but you never you know I think that I mean I I I can't even fathom people that leave cats and dogs in boxes and I've I've come upon bo I mean I found a box of kittens like years ago coming out of a restaurant and I was like horrified like how I can't I don't even know like how people can actually go, yep, this is the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah but we do more we do more for those animals than we do for an old person. That's why she even says in my short, I don't know if you remember the line when she's so frustrated by um the 911 operator telling her you have to take him to you know just take him to the nearest hospital it'll be a faster way to process him. She's so pissed off about it when she gets in the car she turns to him and says why couldn't you be a cute little lost dog or something?

Susie SInger Carter 28:48

Exactly much easier.

Community, Purpose, And Aging With Dignity

Don Priess 28:50

But that goes back to the question I was asking is there if you call the police are they going to do anything? Or will or do they're gonna just say go no just dump them off of the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

I mean if it's illegal it depends so there's different there I've I've researched different things. You can actually call certain social services organizations, elder abandonment organizations. If you call 911, my understanding is that they'll tell you to take them to a hospital for processing or the police might come but I don't know that it's an emergency type of situation. So I think it sort of differs um but you will if you are found to be the person who's abandoned another human being you you will uh there will be charges against you absolutely I don't know what exact they are but you will be but it just shows you where where they're it just shows you where our our elders are held in the society the fact that oh let that yeah you you deal with it you you know it's not and it's not even just our elders it's it's also disabled and and mentally ill as well like can I just share a story but before I do can you what does Severio stand for? Oh that's such a good question. So two things my grandfather is Sicilian was he's passed he's from uh his name is Severio and I've always loved it and um we they called him savvy which I always loved and so I just you know thought oh it'd be such a good name way to use his name and something and you know give a little homage to him. And then you know it's also a Spanish name as well and the Basque translation of that name is a new home. And then I thought oh my gosh is this perfect or what?

Susie SInger Carter 30:39

That's so profound. That's so profound. I just want to share a quick story that happened when I was I was hiking when we were living in Westchester in Culver City people don't know LA and I'm doing the stairs right there's these stairs that go up the mountain and um at the beginning of it it's like the path going up and I'm walking up there and I see a homeless person lying across the pathway like lying there face down. And I'm seeing people far away and they're they're like you know walking around them and just chit-chatting still just walking around them and then these three teen boys or they're they've got their basketball and they're way ahead of me and one of them like tosses the other guy and it misses and the basketball rolls all the way down the hill down the path and hits the guy lying the guy doesn't move and I'm thinking how how did we get to this like I go up to him and I I see he's like lying face down his shoes are off and people are just going walking around but keep talking you know like yeah so I saw yesterday and they're just walking around and don't sit don't even acknowledge a human being lying in the ground.

Don Priess 31:49

Amazing I called 911 and I and they said well is he dead and I said I don't know I'm standing right now and I'm a I'm a I don't know if I should touch him or if I should I said you know sir are you okay there's no answer and I said in any case you should come and collect him because if he isn't dead he's going to be and I said and then they said okay well we'll send somebody over there was like are you kidding like I couldn't believe like nobody stopped and called made a call and then the 911 was saying well do you should we come no I yes you should come yeah well she has a little bit of that in my movie too she's like you know I'd like to report a lost man when did he go missing well he's not missing he's here but you know he's been left and she's like well yeah we see this you know yeah we see this oh we've seen that before you just need to take him to the hospital like no no no I can't take him you know you gotta come get him oh no no you can't well and with our homeless problem you know we see people all the time you know who are either laying on the sidewalk or this you know it's like okay that's their you know either where they're living now we don't know so it's not like it's so unusual especially in you know bigger cities that we see this so it's like it it is not it's not so special that it's like shocking to either the police or to other people. And it's sad.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

It's a sad state of affairs really that's exactly right we are numb to it and um that is another we're very desensitized. And and that's the other thing that I uh wanted to do is to make people you know I shock people at the end a little bit. Shock's maybe too strong a word but it it gets people at the end when they see the statistic and when they read that over a hundred thousand are abandoned every year. It's not just that it's by people usually family members who can no longer or do not want to care for them. And that just breaks people's hearts.

Susie SInger Carter 33:53

So you know I mean it break it's heartbreaking it's heartbreaking and and we are I talk about this all the time we're living longer yes but we're not living better we're not living better at all so you know there's a whole industry behind longevity and living you know extending our lives but then how do we live a good life and those in that chapter and the in like Jane Fonda calls it you know in in your third chapter. So i it that it's just irresponsible it's also you know capitalistic and and and not humanistic and it's all the things all the bad things that that you know have created it to this point where we are desensitized where we can walk over a human being and not even think twice about it like not even think twice about it you know and probably it's like there's a thinking is I don't want to be involved in this exactly totally yeah because you will become involved you yes you will become involved you will like your character you know like your character who had somewhere to go and had somewhere to be and it really changed the trajectory of her life like it did the whole I won't give it away but I mean it really did change her her perspective and it it's huge.

Building Better Safety Nets

SPEAKER_01 35:18

It was huge. In in the feature version it does the same but over a longer period of time but it's much more about the relationship between her and her mother and her identity to both her culture and this idea of what success looks like and you know and fulfillment. I mean she you know people believe that being famous or successful is what is fulfilling in life what's important in life. So that changes but more more than that it's the way she sees her mother as a human versus as you know uh an impediment to everything she wants.

Susie SInger Carter 35:56

I love that so much Ellen I love that so much I I really do I think that's such a great a a great story to tell because it's so it's actually authentic and real because I got pulled out of my trajectory with my mom. Yes and you just do and you either go all in and my feeling was like I love this woman I'm going all in because she needs me and I want to be there. Yeah and um and it's not easy I'm not saying everybody's cut out for but I'm just but the point is is that it really does put things into perspective you know it like I'm thinking oh you know I've really got to get Vestal virgins out. You know this is really important and this you know and all these things that you're thinking that you're not attending to that you need to because that will make your life so much better. But honestly being a that this this trip that I took with my mom as hard as it's been and as heartbreaking as it's been has become a purpose for me and much more fulfilling than I can imagine.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Oh yeah absolutely of course it's taken you on quite a journey and you've yeah I'm sure you you struggle uh because as creatives and wanting to become you know paid and successful and have that next job I mean we're programmed right to base our identity on our you know last success. Um but your humanity has grown you know so much yeah and that has that will always be um apparent in your work and make your work that much better. It'll make your work less hollow in terms of chasing something. I mean to me anyway it feels like it it's been a I agree a pivot in terms of work how I look at how to use art and creativity to you know be better in and to Good it's a segue that's the segue about impact and and art and and storytelling yeah yeah let's talk about that because it you you you have that frame of mind now like don't you agree like even if you're doing a sitcom isn't it better to give something let some let people go you know when they when they turn it off think about something like give them a gift give them something that's that's worth it a takeaway yeah and you know I I'll I mean I always was interested in telling stories um about women's sort of hardships or point of views or wanting to be heard or being seen you know in their power but so it's it's just a slightly different you know evolution of that. It's seeing women and men as we age and I like to say fearlessly but really you know um for me the question is around how do we get caregiving to be just seamlessly into our society as just part of it you know the way everything else in soci you know it just needs to be in the fabric of how we go through our family lives. Um not something that people have to beg, borrow and steal for that's gonna put people into bankruptcy. Um and I don't know how that I I really don't know how that happens. It not doesn't seem like it's this country that will have make it happen.

Making The Feature And Partnering Up

Susie SInger Carter 39:31

I think I think it can be and I think that's why I I have this hope with with our movement is to educate people and and or re-educate them in some cases that you know it we've lost community and there's there and and that sense of individual individualism that we have here which is a Western kind of you know per perspective has permeated a lot of other cultures and a lot of other countries that used to have the community and and family taking care of family and that kind of communal living situation where people families lived like in the same block you know it's just the way my mom grew up that way her aunts all lived they were walking distance you know everybody took care of everybody um we don't have that and and this idea of being individuals and you know needing your your s your boundaries like my daughter's generation is all about boundaries you gotta have your boundaries you know which is fine people can have their space and their boundaries but and nobody can go on without community you know I mean you have to right well it's one of the most important things about to have in aging I think they say that connection with other people is the number one thing to keep you having a healthy aging process. A hundred percent do you know here's my statistic I say it all the time 2000 nursing home residents during COVID died before their time because of isolation failure to thrive. It happen it would happen to anybody it would happen to children we don't do that to children. And Don, to your point about what do you do when you find somebody you know you would think that you could call adult protective services like you would call you know children children protective services but it's not the same. They don't respond the same even adult protective services doesn't respond immediately. They'll say well we'll make a report and we'll follow up with it whereas with children if it's two in the morning and you report they're there.

Don Priess 41:41

Yeah yeah it's the way we value um well you call it an ageist society which I mean I guess children represent something different they're you know hope future beginning they're cute but that comes down to oh well he lived a good long life anyway so it's fine you know yeah he's eighty four yeah he lived a life so it's not that big a loss you know yet they're you know uh every you know for an 84 year old six months of living is I mean that's more valuable than it is to it is a a two-year-old you know so you know uh but but we don't see it that way unfortunately we're in the and it's okay it's okay to frame it that way too if someone has a nice long life and they pass away, God bless them and you know that's a wonderful thing.

Susie SInger Carter 42:32

But that's beautiful but nobody should be tortured. Nobody should be left like garbage on the street and nobody should have to live in a facility where there be that life yeah right yeah and that that's the dignity part that you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Yeah I think so and I just wonder like regardless of ethnicity or you know your social status your you know benefits things like that how can everyone be assured that transition to live out the their last years regardless of their situation if it's uh Alzheimer's dementia physical disability where it could be they could be as comfortable as happy as surrounded by caring people whether it's family or caregivers you know as possible.

Don Priess 43:18

How how does that comes with a system that that affords that financially meaning that if everyone knew that you know they're they're not going to end up on the street there is a place for them. I think you'd still would have people saying even though I can afford this, I don't want this person in my life anymore. It's too much of a burden. You'd still see stuff like this. But at least there'd be a place for them to go and then you'd see a lot less of it. But at some people like you say it doesn't excuse it but some people are like I don't know what else to do and our society and our and our system doesn't allow a solution for that.

Susie SInger Carter 43:56

Well that's why there's laws and that's why you know but they're not these these things need to be enforced there needs to be oversight that's actually real because there not everyone's gonna behave in a way that that you know you would want them to so that's why we have a society and a community to pick up the pieces and to have an infrastructure that does you know buoy that buoy the community to help them and and that's why we have it but you know every s every system gets gamed if you don't pay attention to it because there's bad agents and it just happens if you don't watch it you know then it will if you don't keep eyes on it it will get gamed by people that are you know out there. If there's money there it's gonna get gamed yeah if there's a then then it will so it's that's why that's why we need we need the community to watch out for each other. That's why you know we don't we don't let drunk drivers get away with things. We don't crimin we criminalize that but we don't criminalize you know people that are putting these people in harm's way or using them. So those kinds of things need to change because that that will incentivize.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Yeah. Well for me you know right now the power I have is in telling the story to start conversation around it. Um so having those conversations uh like at these Q ⁇ A's or here with you guys. It's um you know, it feels like maybe we're tiny tiny steps forward, moving the needle a tiny bit, just bringing awareness to it. Um but it's just like you know, we've gotta get it to the people in power to have way more uh interest and empathy in just creating safety nets for this process, this aging process.

Susie SInger Carter 45:44

We have to demand it, because unless we demand it, we have to demand it. We have to that's why we need to, like you said, we need to amplify the message however you do it through storytelling, which is to me and you I know that is powerful to the most powerful, and that really will activate people more than than anything else, you know. That's that's really I I know so. I know so because I guarantee you I'm not with you on all of your QA's, but I know that granny dumping no one really I mean nobody knows about it. Nobody knows about it.

Don Priess 46:22

And it doesn't sound real. It it doesn't sound real either. That's the thing. It's like when I I before we ever saw your film, I knew I'd never heard the term. And I'm sure you maybe hadn't either, until suddenly, you know. I mean, nobody knows that, and it doesn't sound like it's a real thing. And uh so nobody would do that.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Who would do that?

Don Priess 46:42

Let alone a hundred thousand people a year.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Yeah. That you know of, that you know of. And I I, you know, my friends and I, um, and my partner and I, we talk a lot about like how what's it gonna look like for us? How are we going to create safety nets and communities and you know, and we we've actually been starting to talk about like a whole group of people, we're all gonna take over this um facility in you know, Altadena that is, you know, supposedly okay. We're like, we're gonna take it over, we'll make sure we get a good chef, we'll have pickleball. That's that, you know, we're like trying to figure it out, like okay, 15 years. I've we've had that conversation too.

Susie SInger Carter 47:22

We've had that conversation. Like, let's go buy this giant man, you know, like huge compound and compound.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

And like 20 years ago, I was talking with friends about okay, we're gonna buy pre- we're gonna put buy land and get pre-fab homes. And then we're gonna hire a trainer, and we're gonna hire a nurse, and we're gonna hire that's 20 years ago I was talking about that.

Don Priess 47:45

I mean it's a model, it's a it's a model. It is a model.

Susie SInger Carter 47:48

That's a great model. Yeah. Yeah, we should be able to live like that. I think it's that's that's I'll I'm in.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Hey, we made fun of my parents for so many years w about their little situation in Florida, you know, in Delway Beach, Boynton Beach. And boy, did it extend their lives between you know, all the intellectual stimulation, going to the different lectures at the nearby colleges and the theater and the music, you know, that they would see the comedians that would come, playing cards, doing the dancing every Friday, doing shows, living. Living. Living. Yes, tennis. My dad played tennis into his late 80s. I mean, insane. So all these different things kept them happy, healthy for the for the longest amount of time possible. And they died with dignity, both of them.

Susie SInger Carter 48:42

That's right. It's like we just watched, which is a really good documentary, Paul Inca, and um he was talking about like the l this love of his life, his first wife, when they got to a certain age, she wanted to retire, she wanted him to retire. And that actually broke them up because he knew instinctively, like, if I retire, that's like bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Yeah, retire to expire.

Roar, How To Help, And Goodbye

Don Priess 49:06

Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, he would have and he literally they they divorced because of it because she wanted him to not that they didn't like each other or anything, but she just said, you need to stop. Yeah, to what a man Yeah.

Susie SInger Carter 49:22

Yeah, and he is to this day he's still doing it. And he's really good. He sounds amazing, he's so funny and such a like I like I if I ever got to meet him, I would be so like just I would be a fangirl because he's so amazing and funny and lovely and all the things, and I just and w we would be missing out on so much if if he was to retire and roll up in a ball.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Yeah, yeah. No, we say it all the time, you can't retire to expire, and what is it gonna look like? You know, my partner on the podcast, um, Filthy MILF, Sophie, her husband's about to retire from teaching, and she talks about it all the time. I'm terrified, she says. What is he gonna do all day? He's just gonna putt around the house. She's like, I am gonna get a job. I'm never gonna come home because I can't stand to be around this guy. He's gonna take apart things and put them back together and just like do that all day. There's like he's got no purpose.

Don Priess 50:24

Well, you don't have to. Some people just want to retire. Some people just want to sit and rock on a rocking chair or golf every day. And that's fine. And that's good.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

Is it fine though? It is fine for them to want. It is a slower, it's a it's a I it's a faster way towards dying. I mean, we're all moving in that direction. You're just accelerating it by, you know, doing nothing. I I really believe that.

Susie SInger Carter 50:48

What's the point? Like this is a trip. This is our little gift. We get to live this life. Why not live?

SPEAKER_01 50:59

To bring people all this awareness. It doesn't mean you have to go out making films. It doesn't mean you have to but it does mean that you have to have a purpose in your life and you have to be active, physically and mentally active.

Don Priess 51:10

A reason to get up.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

A reason to get up, yeah. And you must have community. A lot of men in particular will just sort of dwindle away on their own in the lazy boy and and that's fine by them.

Don Priess 51:23

Yeah. So it's what happened with my mom, and she, you know, I mean, she's still hanging on not well. But when she went to finally when we had her, you know, she couldn't stay uh alone anymore, so she went to a beautiful commun a wonderful facility, beautiful, social this, that, and she didn't want and she's a very social person. She just decided, nope, I'm gonna just be in my room. And she went downhill so fast. So fast. We did everything we could to and they tried getting her involved, and whenever she did, she liked it, but then it was just back to no, I'm gonna eat and uh no, I'm not gonna go down to the dining room, I'm gonna just eat in in in my place, and just got worse and worse, and it builds on it, and it's uh and it's a it's just a it sped up her decline immensely.

Susie SInger Carter 52:10

Yeah, I don't know how you know I think talking about I think you're talking about I'm no, I'm sorry, you talk.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

This is your No, no, I don't know how you convince somebody to to have purpose or to think about it in a way of engagement. I don't know how you convince somebody, but what were you saying, Susie?

Susie SInger Carter 52:30

No, that's her choice, and that and you have to respect that. That's my opinion. But I think that it's also part of the way we are now that you start devaluing devaluing yourself because you've reached that point, and so depression sets in and uh uh shame, embarrassment, all the things like your mom didn't like it when she became incontinent and becomes embarrassed.

Don Priess 52:55

Exactly.

Susie SInger Carter 52:57

And like if we talked more about it and if we joked about it, and if many people knew that people in their 50s ha are incontinent and that it can happen, like it we would make it more normal to be human. And you know, there's so much, I think you mentioned in the very beginning, Ellen, is that people of a certain age have uh you know, get we they've aggregated so much experience, and like yeah, you were talking about it as us get putting it into filmmaking. We there's so much to learn from older people. Like I had I tell the story about this older man, Jack, who was at, I don't know, 94 or so at my mom's memory care, who had a crush on me, and he was such a a he was a simple war hero. I couldn't find out, but he was a lawyer, and he then he was a judge. Judge, and he flew planes and he was and he flew planes, he was like everything, and he and we and he when he wouldn't talk to anybody, he's curmudgeon, and he had this gorgeous white hair. He was really, you could tell he was good looking at one point, and he was like, Oh, he's wore his hoodie, he was in a wheelchair. But when I'd walk in, he goes. Then he said he goes, Susie Stinger Carter, I love you, you know that, right? And I go, I love you too, Jack. And he goes, You gotta write my story. I go, let's go. Stop teasing, let's do it. And then he he goes, I got a story. I go, I know you got a story. And he goes, Are we gonna have sex? I go, no. I go he goes and just I go, I'll scratch your back.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

Listen, you can just say you're gonna have sex to get the story.

Susie SInger Carter 54:33

He would have given it to me anyway. He was such an amazing, and he watched out for my mom because he didn't have Alzheimer's. I don't know why he was there. I think his family just put him because he would go, I'm watching your mom when you're not here. So sweet. Uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

By the way, so you know I just want to go back to something funny when you talked about people in their 50s having continence. There, uh, we interviewed a comedian in her 40s, early 40s, and she says she pees a little when she laughs too hard. Starting in their 40s. See? Yeah. Um, but having conversations about it are making it, you know, not uh normal. Yeah.

Susie SInger Carter 55:14

I love what you guys are doing. I love your podcast, yeah. I want everyone to listen to it. It's really good. And there's like um a lot of sexy stuff too that you know if you're a prude like me, then I lear I learn things.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

It is too kind of again, it's about conversation. I mean, people, especially s for some reason, people seem to become more puritanical as we get older, apprude as we get older. I don't know why. It's sort of like we go as kids, it's like, ooh, then we're like, yeah, we're teens and we're like rebellious, and then we're like having sex. Yeah, and then all of a sudden we're like, oh, I don't want to talk about it anymore. You know, we sort of revert back. So we're trying to normalize conversations around it because it brings up aging in a way, you know, the different components of being a woman and aging and going through menopause and perimenopause on a lot of people.

Susie SInger Carter 56:03

But don't you think it's also like a perspective of people saying like it was like uh if you when you get hit a certain age, it's like, oh sh dirty old lady. Instead of being like a a sexy woman, she's a dirty old lady.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

But they don't say that about a male.

Susie SInger Carter 56:17

Yeah. And Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

But we're also Yeah. But we're all you're welcome. But we're also like we just had to be. Thank you. We just we just had on somebody around long-term care and talking about the nuts and bolts of that because he's the CEO of one of the biggest management companies for the long-term, for the very big long-term care companies. And you know, the truth is we didn't get into actual numbers, but we did understand the the various types of plans and what's you know in entails. It's expensive, it's a premium. Um, but you know, from his perspective, everyone should have it. Well, yeah, of course, but it's it's like, you know, an insurance policy that's almost prohibitively expensive for the majority of people. Anyway, we we we we talk about things that aren't sexy too. It's my point. No, they do, they do.

Susie SInger Carter 57:13

They had me on, they had me on, so you know, um I was not talking about anything sexy, although Jack did want to have sex with me. That was that was funny. So yeah. I have to pay I have to find these things in what I'm doing these days, so yeah. But um, is there anything we didn't talk about that you want to talk about? I know you're doing this, you're gonna make you're in the middle of d of writing or I don't know how far you've gotten in your script on on Severo for the for the feature.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

I'm you know planning to try to raise the money and and connect with um elder abandonment, elder abuse organizations and different organizations to try to not necessarily for money, but at least to legitimize the message of the project to partner with me in that way. Um so you know, I'm not sure when we're gonna shoot it, but I'd like to shoot it early next year if possible. So this is from about in about a month or two, probably when I get back from the Cannes Film Festival, that's when I'm gonna be start getting very active.

Susie SInger Carter 58:15

See, she said can she's going. See that?

SPEAKER_01 58:18

Yes, yes, we can.

Susie SInger Carter 58:21

Yes, you're going. That's right. That's right. You're gonna go with wear your ball dress all day long. Never take it off. And sneakers. And sneakers, you can wear that if I went if I, God willing, now get to go again, I will definitely sneak some sneakers in for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been amazing.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

I I think what you guys are doing, I mean, and I love that you're tag teaming each other and helping each other through all this, too. It's and your new organization, Roar. I mean, I'm so glad I'm on the list and I'm looking forward to doing what I can to help with that. It's amazing. I can't believe you're starting a new one. I love it.

Don Priess 59:00

It started. There's a board of directors, there's uh the whole thing, it's going. Oh, yeah. Many volunteers at the same time.

Susie SInger Carter 59:06

I'm fancy and organized now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

And it's so such a great name, be be be a roarrier. I love that. It's just really it's fun, you know. So thank you.

Susie SInger Carter 59:18

Thank you, Ellen. Well, I I love you. I'm I, you know, we're we're rooting for you all the way. And you know, we've been I just wanted you to know that because um I just think what you're doing is fantastic, and I'm happy, I'm glad that we're colleagues, and I'm glad that we're uh kind of on a parallel journey. So um Yeah, I'm like right behind you, right?

SPEAKER_01 59:39

You you're you but I'm not gonna start a nonprofit. I'm just gonna be part of yours. Don't do it. Don't do it, don't do it. Just help us with ours.

Susie SInger Carter 59:45

Yes, just help us with ours. Okay, I okay. Well, thank you for coming with us, and everybody, you know. Don't we just bring people that are so lovely? Just the we have the loveliest guests. I think.

Don Priess 1:00:00

They are lovely, they're filled with love, they're in, and you know why. I mean, we know why we have these lovely people on the city. But you didn't say it. That's because love is powerful. Love is contagious, and love conquers all. So we thank everybody for watching, listening today. If you like what you saw, please share, subscribe, do all those fun things.

Susie SInger Carter 1:00:19

Well, let me just give one last plug. Go to the roar.org and check out where have our uh walk for awareness, and we would love you to be a part of it. So check it out, and I'll keep reminding you. So until then, I love you and have a wonderful day.

Don Priess 1:00:38

Take care, everybody. Bye bye.