Say Yes! Vannesia Darby Shares Uncommon Steps to Creator Success (and Shondaland)

Have you been unknowingly saying 'no' to the creator opportunities you are praying for  - because they don't show up the way you expected?

From classical pianist, to music industry intern, to becoming a sought after consultant and eventually the digital marketing director of Shonda Rhimes' production company, Shondaland, Vannesia Darby's uncommon path proves that God positions you when you're faithful and available.

In this episode, Vannesia shares the pivotal decisions that helped her utilize her skills in each chapter of her creator life. She breaks down the "uncommon steps" that took her from independent creator to working within one of the most prestigious entertainment networks in the industry—without a hookup, without connections - just faith in God and the unique skills she brings to the table. 

Connect with Vannesia Darby

 Website: VannesiaDarby.com

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You'll discover:

• How to recognize when a season is ending (and the courage to walk away)
• Why your identity in Christ matters more than your accolades
• The power of saying "yes" to opportunities you can't yet see
• How availability and faithfulness position you for influence
• What to tell yourself when you're afraid of making the next move

Vannesia also addresses the faith creator's unique struggle: navigating success, managing imposter syndrome, and remembering that your purpose isn't about you. 

Don't Build Your Creator Lifestyle Alone. Join the Community! 

In our 360 Creator Community, you get focused encouragement, guidance, and training on how to thrive as a God-centered creator. 

Joining gives you access to our app, workshops and community conversations, so you can stop being isolated and frustrated and start enjoying creative confidence! Join today!

GodandGigs.com/membership

Transcript

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:00)
Are you feeling insecure and confused by the path you're taking as a creator? Unsure of God might be taking you somewhere totally out of your comfort zone, but right into the place where you will finally be able to thrive?

In this episode, you're going to hear from Vannesia Darby, marketing consultant and founder of her agency Moxie Nashville. She's reached the heights of creative achievement as a digital marketing director for Shondaland, the production arm for legendary TV and film producer Shonda Rhimes. But Vannesia has explored so many other creative gifts that make her an incredible mentor for creators like you and I. She's been a musician, worked with major recording artists and music labels.

excelled in academic circles as she continues to grow as a speaker, writer, and thought leader. Her message isn't just about success and the creator economy. It's about discovering how your creative life can evolve, expand, and show up in places that stretch your definition of what's possible. In this episode, you're going to discover how to maintain your purpose in high level spaces, how to build a career that aligns with your values, and how to understand that you might be making an impact when you don't even realize people are watching.

Now, if you're new to the podcast, I'm Allen C. Paul, and this is The God and Gigs Show, where we help you to become the creator that you were created to be. And by the end of this conversation with this incredible creator and mentor, here's what I want you to hold onto. Your calling isn't limited to just one lane. It's about stewarding your influence wherever God places you.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (01:38)
Vannesia Darby, welcome to the God and Gigs show. How are you? I am doing even better now. As you know, I've been getting up.

Vannesia Darby (01:40)
Hey, hey, I'm good, how are you?

Good. Yeah, we have little issues.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (01:48)
It

took, this is how you know it's going to be a great interview. Whenever we have to fight through a whole bunch of obstacles to make it happen. So the enemy didn't win and you are going to share some incredible wisdom with our band of creators. And that's really one of the main things I am already going to say. Thank you so much for being someone who cares about creators. Like it is goes clearly into your DNA. So I'm going to try to unwrap the onion of everything you have to offer in just 45 to 60 minutes. I don't know if it's going to be possible. So I'm already going to pick.

Vannesia Darby (01:51)
Right, right.

Of course!

Okay? We'll give it a try. We'll

give it a try.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (02:17)
I'm already

going to pitch for a part two, but you know how this goes. So I do have to ask you at the first question. Usually people are meeting you sometimes for the first time, even if they know about you online. And so you understand that you have to give kind of like a little elevator pitch, but the way I like to phrase it is like this. If you're meeting somebody for the first time and they don't have a chance to read the bio, what are those two or three things about you, just the person that you'd want somebody to know upon first meeting?

Vannesia Darby (02:26)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

what I always say, because I feel like this is the best synopsis of who I am is that I am a daughter of a Pentecostal preacher slash Marine, U S Marine combat veteran and a probation officer. So my sister became a psychologist. I went to the entertainment industry, do the information what you will. Okay. But that's kind that's kind of, you know, where I came from, where, you know, we had this creative expression, but also very regulated. So I am.

definitely both right brain and left brain. ⁓ And I feel like that has been the through line through my creativity and also through ⁓ anything that I do personally or professionally. So I play piano, but I love a good spreadsheet as well. So yeah, it was hard trying to figure that out, but those are the kind of the two tent poles I would anchor myself in.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (03:33)
Okay, so this opens up a whole new world with the ministry and then the extra idea of the discipline and the military and then entertainment. Yes, this is going to be a fun interview. ⁓ You may know you're clear. It clearly worked. Whatever those ingredients were spiced in, they are creating an amazing recipe for you. So this is where I'd like to start with because you mentioned and I'm gonna try not to be.

Vannesia Darby (03:34)
I know it's Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. I made it out, y'all. Prayer works. Okay.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (03:58)
you know the both the fanboy and the person that thinks that you are just my spirit animal in the classical piano space. So let's talk a little bit about that because you're talking to a fellow pianist who started in classical. All right, so you were researching too. So starting in piano starting as a performer, tell me what was the thing that drew you and was there anything in that world in the world of performance or piano, especially in classical that you're still taking with you because that's a.

Vannesia Darby (04:01)
It's your podcast. Yes. Yeah.

I saw your bio, yes, yes, of course.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (04:27)
whole other world, not just the piano, but the classical world as well.

Vannesia Darby (04:28)
Yeah.

Yeah, I love this question. I love talking to musicians because it's like a different language, right? So when I remember watching, ⁓ and again, two sides of the same coin. So I used to watch BAPS every single day when I was younger, the movie with Halle Berry and Natalie Reed. And I would watch The Preacher's Wife. So very much so ratchet and righteous. And so ⁓ I saw Whitney Houston perform I Believe in You and Me.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (04:44)
Yeah.

cheese

Vannesia Darby (04:57)
And I just would replay it over and over and over. I was very young and I would replay that over and over again. And my mom had a little like 66 key Casio keyboard and she had like these stickers on there. And I was about maybe in second grade.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (05:10)
Mm-hmm.

Vannesia Darby (05:12)
And so she was taking lessons at the time and she eventually sacrificed her lessons because we couldn't afford for everybody to take lessons. So I took lessons and I already came in knowing like the C scale. I came in knowing very basic music theory. So I feel like piano was probably the one thing in my life that chose me, but I didn't choose it. And it became, you know,

for someone that's very like type A all throughout her life, that was always a place where I could be free, right? Because then I learned jazz and then I learned gospel and then I'm hearing different things in my ears just getting bigger. And so when you, when you go from strictly classical to learning how to do improv, right?

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (05:41)
Mmm.

Vannesia Darby (05:54)
you go from Bach and Beethoven to Thelonious Monk and like Dizzy Gillespie and then she slashes on the sheet music. You're like, okay, they just gave me, you know, the key signature or they gave me, you know, what key we're playing in, but there's no notes. And so it took me really like, it's like driving an automatic versus a stick shift. Like still a car, but how you get there is very different. The touch is different. The feel is different. And so that took me a while, but I feel like

Piano was one place where your expression was kind of like your own language, right? And so you didn't necessarily have to have words, but you were able to just express yourself and how you were feeling in the way you would play.

music. I feel like was always that one through line throughout my life where everything just made sense, like whether it was school or whether it was.

the entertainment industry, some of that stuff I didn't really get, like why am I here? Music was something I never questioned why I was there. It just made sense to me.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (06:51)
gosh, okay, so this is incredible because knowing the performer side and artist being an artist wanted to navigate that world. But then at some point, not just being the performer, but getting to the industry side where you are now working with people who are artists

Vannesia Darby (06:54)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (07:07)
So tell us a little bit about getting into the music industry versus being a performer or being someone that's on the creative side.

Vannesia Darby (07:10)
Yeah.

So I was in college during college. I became a leader, right? So I had no idea that leadership was a field, right? There's an industry, there's theory, there's all these different things with leadership development. And I was just kind of tapping into that personal development world.

I had naturally been able to help people, but I didn't know there was a whole industry that revolved around public speaking or development. I had no idea. So I had a professor in college and she was like, I think you'd be really good at researching. I was like, girl, no, I'm going to be a music producer. I'm going to do hair. Like that's all I wanted to do. Like you're doing a lot. And then even in high school, I had a friend that eventually passed away, but he would make beats. So we had a music, it was called music technology and keyboarding.

And I had, that was, think we were on Garage Band back then. Like we taking it back, right? And so he would skip lunch to like make these beats, you know? And I was, I was just enamored. I was like, what are you, what are you doing? Like what's, and I had no idea how music actually got made. I didn't know how music got on the radio. I just knew like, I want to be in the studio. And so there were all these little seeds that were planted. And so when I was graduating college,

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (08:01)
Okay.

Vannesia Darby (08:22)
I didn't know what I wanted to do and there was nobody hiring and so at that time I really want to work at a label I had done an internship at EMI gospel and I wanted to work in gospel which is a niche of a niche of a niche, right? So you have inspiration then you have Christian then you have gospel And so you talk about slim pickings, right and ⁓

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (08:35)
Hmm?

Vannesia Darby (08:42)
I saw this article that was tweeted. ⁓ There was a music group that tweeted an article about this woman named Tracey Artis and how she broke all these artists like Kirk Franklin and Kirk Carr and Byron Cage and Dorinda Clark Cole and Trin-i-Tee 5:7 And I was like, okay, in all my searching, I've never heard of this woman, respectfully, right? And at the time her agency, she was a radio promoter and her firm had gotten like, I think 23 stellar award nominations in total. Like it was a crazy, and she's...

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (09:08)
Oof.

Vannesia Darby (09:10)
Like her walls are decorated, you know, but ⁓ so she had gotten all these awards and so I saw the article went to her website sent out a general inquiry didn't hear back and I Ended up finding her on Facebook and DMing her and I said, hey, my name is Vannesia. I'm gonna graduate from college I just want some advice because I keep getting told no or like we're not you know We're not hiring right now and I've done an internship. I don't tune in internships. I don't know where to go from here

And I said, can I have your email address? Just so can ask you a couple of questions. And she said, sure, sweetheart. And she sent me her email and I emailed her and I attached my resume. I thought it was the lamest thing. I was like, this is going to be so whack. I'm in the school library. Right. Literally. And so ⁓ she ended up looking at my resume. And when I entered at EMI Gospel, she knew the VP GM over there for like 20 years, because nobody ever leaves the industry.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (09:50)
Shoot your shot, shoot your shot.

Vannesia Darby (10:04)
So she knew the VP, she gives him a call, does this unofficial reference check, like who's this Vannesia girl? And he was like, no, she's dope, her. Like we had her as an intern. And literally turned around and was like, I'm hiring for a marketing assistant. ⁓ You know, do you think you would want to move to Cincinnati? I was like, mm, okay, well maybe. And you know, I didn't have any money. I was graduating school, didn't have a job, had all these accolades, but no money.

And I said, all right. And I told her yes. My dad helped me negotiate my deal. And two weeks later, I was working in her office. Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (10:36)
Wow, gosh. But the

fact that you were willing to take that chance to reach out to someone, and I also saw one of your reels where you talked about the reciprocity, the fact that you had already done good work in that internship and That that person remembered your work, that remembered that you were a good person. It also speaks to always showing up as your whole self and giving your best because you never know who is that person in the room, right?

Vannesia Darby (10:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. you know, at the time, as an intern, you you are, you're the bottom of the ladder, right? And so I have this kind of ego battle because I'm a high performer in college and I'm doing all these different things and I'm getting these scholarships and I'm leading these organizations and you want me to go to the mail room? Like, we don't have Dropbox by now.

And so, you know, there is a humbling process that you gotta go to if you really want it, you know? And I'm not saying everybody has to start from the bottom. you know, some people, they do go and transition into like a mid-level or senior-level role. There's plenty of people in the industry that have done that. But I am grateful that I was a marketing assistant

I know a lot of the ins and outs because I was the one that you had to send your bio to. I was the one trying to hunt down a headshot for you. I was the one that had to go get the food and then go pick up the kids and then go make sure you're at the event and that you look like you're presentable. Right? So when you come up the ranks, you understand every single level. And I think that as a leader, you can respect every level, even if you haven't been there. But when you've been there, you can tell people, yeah, the assistants are the real gatekeepers. yeah, you may want to be, you know,

besties with that manager real quick. You like you get it. You get the nuance of the industry. And so I built it brick by brick.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (12:16)
Yeah.

But the fact is is that by building from the bottom up, like you said, You've seen it from the management side. Now you're in the marketing side when you got this job as a performer again, you got to see in terms of actually practicing and presenting. And so I'm just curious, what were the things? And this was one of the questions, by the way, that we asked our 360 creative community. Shout out.

Vannesia Darby (12:26)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Hey y'all!

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (12:44)
Shout out to our membership who's watching right now, I'm sure, because

they were the ones that were like cheerleading to get this interview. So one of them asked Because you got to work on some of the biggest projects, some of the biggest artists as you worked your way through the music industry on that side of the aisle, right? So what were the things that separated some of the artists, the creators, the people who came through who were talented?

Vannesia Darby (12:56)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (13:09)
but didn't seem to like make it over the fence. Didn't seem to make an impression like you made an impression, right? And we're talking about now like music artists, creator artists, whatever kind of art you want. So did you notice any patterns as you were on that side?

Vannesia Darby (13:18)
Yeah.

Yeah, I will say I'm going to separate that because I think that there is there's an industry side of the entertainment world, right? Where it's very mainstream. You go through the traditional route. And when I say traditional, it's like maybe you're I worked at Universal Music Group at Motown Gospel. So you may go through the label route, which is you're probably on like a two year cycle. Like there's a whole machine behind you. There's press, there's digital, there's ads, all these different things. Right. So that's like the industry side. There's also this creator side.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (13:39)
Okay.

Vannesia Darby (13:48)
which was budding at the time when I was at the label, but it wasn't as full fledged as it is now. So you barely had influencers that were just coming out. Like I remember Not Carlton Banks making a parody of Tasha Cobbs Leonard now, Tasha Cobbs Leonard. And I remember when that first came out and I sent him like a care package because it was funny. And I was like, let's get all the free stuff we got, right? But that was budding. But now they're, they're kind of parallel where you have this industry that has been

going on for years and then you have these creators who are building these audiences in an authentic way, but they may not get the mainstream looks like television or even some digital platforms. But what I would say to answer the question is that one thing across both is that you have to know who you are because money and fame and exposure doesn't do anything but magnify who you already are. So if you are insecure, you're only gonna be insecure with a platform.

If you are ⁓ limited in your scope when it comes to your thinking, you're only gonna be limited when you have a platform. And so, you know, we talk about the lights, right? The lights can burn you up and the lights can expose you because light can see through a lot of veils once it's on a platform. And so sometimes people really want it, but their integrity isn't there. So the people that I saw that really rose through the ranks, they didn't care if they had two people in the audience. They didn't care if your blog was a mom and pop blog. I remember when I worked with ⁓

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (14:59)
Absolutely.

Vannesia Darby (15:13)
We worked Erica Campbell's first solo project coming out for Mary Mary. She worked that project. was a brand. She was a brand new artist. She was on everybody's radio show. She was doing everybody's interview. And so I would say that's the first thing is that you have to know who you are. Number two, don't be afraid to do platforms that may not have a lot of notoriety. Like it's okay. You need to practice getting your message out there. You need to practice making sure that you know what to say. ⁓ And then also you have to have, if you are a creator and it comes to music,

Or I'll just say in general, you have to have a good product. And I think that people, like people skip that, right? And so like, some people they know their songs, not, they're not fit for the industry, right? I'm hearing crackling in the back of your music or it's not mastered or your levels don't sound right or the product, the instrumentation is off or you don't have your lyrics, you don't have your ISRC code, you don't have your UPC codes. Like all that, if someone were to sue you, they taking you for everything you got.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (15:48)
Now that-

Vannesia Darby (16:14)
You don't have your split sheets, none of this stuff, right? And so a lot of people like, I just want to be famous, but you don't have the foundation when it comes to your business. You don't know how to read a contract. Go to a junior college, take a business class, take take an entertainment law class, right? And just learn some of these terms like in perpetuity, learn what that means, learn what an invoice is, learn what net 15, net 30, net 90 means, right? So a lot of people, they just lack a fundamental, and I'm not saying it to be rude, I'm saying it to be real.

Like lot of people lack a fundamental understanding of what it means when you are the product. That means you have to have your business set up. That means you have to know who you are. You have to have your integrity set up. And if you are working in a faith-based genre or faith-based industry, you gotta know who you are when these lights cut off.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (16:57)
Say it. This is such good stuff.

Vannesia Darby (16:59)
Thank

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (17:00)
I love that the fact that you're bringing it back again to being responsible and knowing the business and being willing.

Vannesia Darby (17:05)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (17:05)
to learn

and clearly you were willing to learn in those years in the music industry. But at some point now you're not in, you're not specifically in the music industry anymore. So what was the transition? Because you eventually opened your own agency. You eventually stepped into yet another thing. You're doing so many things. I don't know. I don't know how you squeezed all these things into one lifetime and you still look like someone that could, who just graduated from college, but

Vannesia Darby (17:19)
I did. Come on, bio! ⁓

Yeah. I did. Yeah. Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (17:30)
At some point you managed to get into a whole nother world because the marketing was obviously helping you work with people like Tasha Cobbs Leonard. But was

there was there another pivot point? There was a pivot point from college to getting into the industry. Was there another pivot point that like where you were even challenged again?

Vannesia Darby (17:42)
Yes, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I kept bumping my head on these glass ceilings, right? And so I'm not good, just a personal note. I'm not good at people telling me no over and over and over, right? And so when I was at the label, Love Them Down, right? They were great. But there was a lot of caps of what I can do when it came to budget and creativity and...

I knew, and this is why it's also important for you who asked that question from your membership community, you have to know what you're doing well too. So I was in digital, digital marketing, but my degree was in management. I didn't know nothing about no digital marketing. So I was cutting my teeth. I knew, I'm telling you, I told my boss, he said, do you want to come work for me? And I said, I don't know how to work Photoshop. He said, it's okay, just come down.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (18:23)
says the digital marketer. I love it.

Vannesia Darby (18:35)
That's the music industry. Okay, it's a vibe so but I at that point I had started learning i'm sitting on webinars i'm sitting i'm watching podcasts, you know back then and so I started realizing like ⁓ i'm actually getting quantifiable Metrics that are doing well. I'm actually noticing that okay. Well, I took a negotiation class. ⁓

And I'm going to say this for the sake of the conversation. I took a negotiation class with white men, which changed my life, right? Changed my life. I'm a black woman for those of who listening, if you haven't noticed. Changed my entire life. What they ask for, their disposition when they're negotiating, completely different than me coming in being green and being passionate. Like as you could tell, I talk fast, I'm very animated. It's always been me. That can be looked down upon when you are typically the youngest person in the room coming straight out of college.

Right? And so I learned like, ⁓ okay, this is, know, maybe this, maybe you should try this approach. Right? So I ended up, one of my assignments in my negotiation class was to pitch something. It could be, you know, a new product, a new service. I decided to I pitched my promotion and I created this whole new position. And I said, this is what you need to do. I went, I went to FedEx and got everything laminated. Okay. Your girl put the business degree to work. Okay.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (19:41)
Okay.

Vannesia Darby (19:51)
And they kind of sat on it, right? And they were like, this is great. This like, we've never seen anything like this. This is amazing. And about six months go by and my review comes up. And I remember waking up and thinking like, I'm going to quit my job. I don't know when, I don't know how, but I'm going to quit my job. And at the time I had a roommate and I started just guest blogging. I was just blogging on certain outlets like Blavity, but I was getting traction, right? So.

Teen Vogue did a crossover with Blavity where they took one of my blogs and they published it and then like thought catalog. It was starting to get a little like people were listening, right? And again, I don't have a personal brand at this point. I'm just I'm just talking on the internet and trying to express because people are asking me questions like how are you into the industry? like, okay, what's the best way to do this? All right, let's let's go write a blog. ⁓ And so anyway, I sell that to say that ⁓ that was the point when there was really nothing else I could do there. ⁓

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (20:27)
Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (20:47)
because I had to think about financially what I was gonna do with my future. And so I remember telling my boss, like, yeah, I'm gonna have to get off this good train. And he was like, are you gonna go to our competing label? And I said, no. But that's also when I knew like, ⁓ I may have something here. And ⁓ so I started my business called Moxie Nashville. At the time it was a social media agency. Didn't have the language for consulting. Didn't really know what I was doing, but I knew that...

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (21:04)
Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (21:16)
I knew some people that would need some help and I knew enough people from college that knew how to do flyers that I felt like I could do a little something. And it was supposed to be a year to finish up my master's degree and we'll be 10 in July.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (21:29)
Wow. So wait, so let me make sure I heard that correctly. So you said you were considering this almost like a temporary kind of to kind of tide you over to get another position. And it turned out to be the position or the company that you founded everything else around.

Vannesia Darby (21:31)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, I never wanted to be an entrepreneur. I never wanted to be. And this is a fun fact. Never wanted to be an entrepreneur. Never wanted to be marketing. Hated marketing. Hated marketing. Because I didn't know, like it wasn't tangible for me. Right. Management. You can see if people are getting better. You can see employee performance improve. Marketing was very much so a vibe. Like, we're just going to do this for awareness. I'm like, what is awareness? How does that make us money? Exactly.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (22:11)
How do you quantify it? Yeah, this is so

interesting that, I love this, so I'm gonna have to stay on this rabbit trail because you just opened up a huge area, which is you are working with creators, right? Who oftentimes don't care about the metrics. Now they care about followers, and of course they wanna be famous and they wanna have impact, but they're not looking at spreadsheets, right? Like as you mentioned earlier. So, and this was not according to you,

Vannesia Darby (22:14)
Yeah.

Go ahead.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Right. Correct. Right, ⁓ correct.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (22:40)
I mean, God brought this out clearly that this was your calling and something you're amazingly good at. But I just want to know in terms of balancing that right brain, left brain, now you have to not just steward your own vision, but now you're looking for clients and trying to convince them that the metrics matter. How do you handle that balance not only in your own life, but

Vannesia Darby (22:41)
For sure.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (23:06)
in your own company, should say, but

for other people and creators who don't really understand that back and forth between metrics and creativity.

Vannesia Darby (23:13)
Yes,

yeah, and this is why I know it was God that did what he did, right? And so one thing is that you, and we kind of talked about this earlier, ⁓ is that you have to be you, right? So to your point, a lot of creators didn't have those analytics, like the analytic side, right? They didn't have that strategy side. They had a gut feeling of what they would do that would perform well, but they couldn't necessarily tie that back and speak the language to the label.

to where it mattered, right? So that's where I came in. Again, didn't know what consulting was back then, right? But I'm like, ⁓ you should do this, this and this because I had done it so many times at the label. I knew exactly what to do. And when I sent my like, kumbaya, thanks so much for these great years email out, people are like, where are you going? And I was like, I don't, I don't know. I don't know where I'm going. I didn't have a plan. I just knew I had to go. ⁓ And so like by literally by God's grace.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (23:42)
Okay.

Vannesia Darby (24:12)
my phone started ringing like immediately. And I was like, I just need to chill. Give me like a month. Like I just need to calm down because I was in grad school at the time and we had, ⁓ you know, we just came out. Did we come out for, I think Tasha had released her record. We dropped a Motown Christmas album that came out. So like we had done all these great projects. I was tired, right? And I think that's another part of being a creative person is that your wellness is important. I hadn't learned that yet.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (24:40)
Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (24:42)
And so I would go through these peaks and valleys of having all this energy and then coming down really bad and then going back up and coming down really bad. And so I hadn't stabilized yet when it came to just managing a big personality or managing being gifted, because no one talks about that either. ⁓ And so I just needed a break. And so I know it was the Lord. ⁓ From a tactical answer, I will say, do great work wherever you are, because that is your resume. ⁓

I remember when I launched my business, didn't even have services. didn't know to have services on the website. was like, people just talked to me and then I solve problems. Yeah. But I couldn't turn into a service at first because I didn't know, right? So looking back on it.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (25:18)
You saw OK, that's huge though. The fact that you solve problems is the number one thing on resume. The only thing they care about.

Got it.

Vannesia Darby (25:30)
I wish I would have gone to the library and just got a book on consulting, but I didn't, cause I didn't have that language of like, what's a deliverable, right? Like, how can I do this? And actually, cause people are like, well, what am I getting? And I'm like, well, you're getting to talk to me. And they're like, well, I can just talk to you. Right. And so, okay, how do I turn this into a service? How do I turn this into a service? And that took a while to learn ⁓ and to be able to say, okay, this is strategy. This is execution. Right. So you can charge for this.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (25:55)
Got it.

Vannesia Darby (25:58)
and you can charge for this or you can bundle that together. So if you're a musician or if you're someone who even performs, maybe you're a barber or whatever, right? You have your service that you offer, but you also have your expertise and you can charge for both. But I didn't know that. I didn't know that. So if you are considering, and even still like even being a musician, you can charge for lessons, you can charge for performance.

Or you can charge for ⁓ even people asking you questions about maybe their music or how do you interpret music. That's very important, especially if you're doing classical, because interpretation of the piece is just as important as the performance itself. And so if you don't know every dynamic, if you don't know, you know, like, what does this Latin word mean? Like, if you don't know all that, you got to ask somebody, which is why teachers are important. Right. So I took that from my music side. I took some of the structure from church.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (26:42)
Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (26:51)
and like, you know, come and check to God in Christ. There's the local, jurisdictional and national level, right? Like there's, there's all these different things. And I took structure from school and I kind of put it together and say, okay, how can I look at this creative world and use my analytical side to make sense for me as someone who naturally manages that, but may not market. And so that was God. And I will tell you this just because it is a faith-based podcast. I remember the Holy Spirit told me to put all of my awards away.

So I'm starting my business and I had these awards and ⁓ because you you have to hype yourself up every day when you're an entrepreneur. I don't know if that's not right. And you do, you do. And sometimes you don't have it. Right. And so you'll look back at past success and say, OK, if I did this before, I could do it again. If God did this before, he can do it again. And God said, put him away. I was like, OK. And so I remember putting all of my awards under my couch.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (27:28)
Yes.

You gotta be, you gotta be your own hype person.

Vannesia Darby (27:50)
in my office and he just let me know like we're gonna we're gonna build it again like we're gonna and I was like when you say we you mean me and you right am I included in that and it was hard like it was hard right and I think I don't want to gloss over that it's hard ⁓ and so for the first four years four or five years I didn't have to pitch any client everybody came to me it was referral based ⁓

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (28:00)
Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (28:18)
And then I wanted to try my hand at comedy, so I pitched to some influencers in the comedic space, and then they pitched me to another influencer that was in the financial space. so that's literally, like Moxie is a referral-based business. So yeah, but it starts with doing great work where you are.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (28:36)
Well, the Bible says that a good name is better than apples of gold, right? You had a good name because of every single time you stepped into a place, you just said referrals are just people referring your good name and the fact that you're good work and understood it. Now, apparently at some point, now I got to get to this part. How in the world does a someone that doesn't consider themselves a marketer become the digital marketing?

Vannesia Darby (28:40)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You're fine.

I know.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (29:02)
lead for Shondaland. Like now you have to fill in some gaps where God made that happen because now I'm just saying, this is just incredible. And I know it has something to do, has to be something to do with your name. has something to do with the work ethic and it has to have something to do with you being willing to ask or talk to somebody that some people wouldn't be willing to like take that step. So talk us through that and how that happened.

Vannesia Darby (29:06)
Right.

Yeah.

So about year six or seven, I think it was year six in my business, I remember getting an email from a client and saying that they weren't going to renew their contract. And I just had like this audible exhale and I was like, Ooh, what was that? Right? Cause your body will physically let you know sometimes, especially if you're a high performer. So I don't necessarily process stress mentally, like I can handle it. Right. But physically my body will respond.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (29:43)
Okay.

Vannesia Darby (29:46)
And so I had learned to kind of listen to my body at that point. I was like, ooh, that was weird. Do I not want to be here anymore? And so I remember I was just playing around the internet. And I was like, OK, if I were to go back to work, at this time it had been six years since I worked for anybody. And I had done everything I wanted to do. I did merch. I got awards.

hired people, like really done everything. And again, Moxie was only supposed to be a year. Like, so me at the time going on seven, I was like, woo, okay, girl, we've expired our time. And so ⁓ I said, you know, what would I want to do? And I think you always have to give yourself room to imagine, right? Like to really think about like, okay, where can I really take this? And the world had changed so much. This was post pandemic. Like this was new to everybody. ⁓

And so I started saying, okay, I think I would love to work at like a really dope company that either had a great name or that just did really dope stuff that I am a fan of, right? Because I love, again, artist side. I let them people do great productions.

And I saw a role for a social media manager job at Shondaland, which was a remote position at the time. And I was like, ain't nobody finna be a social media manager. And I clicked out.

because I again I hated marketing sometimes I gotta stump you on the forehead ⁓ so yeah like I was like you know and so he was like open it back up and I said okay so I go and I read through it again and I was just like I don't want to I don't want to get out of social to go back in social like we're this is supposed to be a pivot I don't see the pivot here

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (31:12)
I guess so, I guess so.

Vannesia Darby (31:30)
And so I said, okay, well, let me look at it with different eyes because my life has been a series of things I don't want to do. So perhaps this would work out. And ⁓ I kept making it through the interview rounds and I was like, think, I think I'm going to get this job. And again, I said, I'll do it for a year just to see if I like it. Right. And that's clearly my plan doesn't work. And so ⁓ I ended up getting the job and I remember thinking like, what does that mean for me as a creator?

I had these real thoughts because again, when you de-emphasize what a lot of these titles are, you recognize them for what they are and you appreciate them for what they are, but they don't define you. So I genuinely was like, what does this mean for my brand that I've been building? But this time I'm blogging, I'm speaking, I'm doing workshops. People know Vannesia Darby owner of Moxie Nashville. had an internship program at that point. So people knew who I was. I was like, what does this mean for the brand? ⁓

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (32:10)
Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (32:28)
I said, okay, I have to position this in a way that up levels my brand and my visibility as well as do great work for the company. and I think I waited probably two weeks before I said anything online. Like I was not changing the LinkedIn status, nothing. Post was still going out. And I told my clients and they were like, what? You know, and

It was literally one of the best moves I could have made in my career. And I say that not necessarily because of the name, but because it allowed me to brush up against other marketers that I hadn't done in a long time. know, at Motown, I was the only digital marketer for the whole department. And so I was doing everything. And at the time I was learning. so starting my agency, I was a top dog. So if I didn't want to do something, we didn't do it. So now I'm in this incredible creative hub.

and around some of the most talented people I've ever met in my entire life. And I was like, ⁓ this may this may be a thing. And balancing the personal brand was different, right? Like it was different having to have more visibility on the platforms that you're on and, know, where you're speaking at, like those sort of things. I hadn't done that in such a long time. was like, ⁓ I forgot what this felt like. OK. And so ⁓ so then ⁓ there ended up being some transitions. And now I'm the digital marketing director.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (33:47)
All from a social, from a post that you closed initially.

Vannesia Darby (33:51)
Literally,

yeah, no, I definitely shut that browser down. I was like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (33:54)
And then God said, no, this is the door for you. So I'm going to read this question from one of our members, verbatim, because you literally just walked right into it. And I love how these things are in alignment. Because

she asked, how can a creator build influence and ownership at the same time? So their platform grows. And you literally, I feel like just answered that. So I'm really just kind of like tagging that on, because I feel like you addressed it so well that you, even though you're connected to big names and you've been around big names,

Vannesia Darby (34:06)
Yeah, yes.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (34:19)
you

didn't lose the fact that you still had to have some ownership in how this benefited you. And I want to quickly add on a quick question, which is what are the lessons you're taking from these great creators that you are applying to your own platform?

Vannesia Darby (34:30)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. I think one thing I love about people that are like 10 toes down in what they produce is that they believe like wholeheartedly in what they're doing. Right? Like sometimes, again, we talked about earlier, like you second guess yourself, you gotta hype yourself up. They don't. They are like, this is be the number one song.

Are you sure? They're like, yeah, it could sound like trash. It doesn't matter. So they just fundamentally believe in the gifts that God gave them. And then also too, the really good ones have teams. When I talked about balancing, like I had some health scares that went along with entrepreneurship because I was so busy and I was so visible and I was so accessible. ⁓ And so you have to build in buffer sometime, not to be Hollywood, but to protect yourself. I get a lot of DMs.

I get a lot of people that bypass a form, you know, and I'm like, go fill out the form, right? And it's not to be, you know, the sage from the stage. That's not it. It's because I want to make sure that one, I have a process in place that I can get your request in, right? Because as someone who DM'd herself to a job, I want to make sure I review every single request. And number two, I want to make sure that we get you whatever we need.

So my friend was an artist manager. I said, you need to become a talent manager and manage me. And he was like, sure. I was like, really? He said, yeah. So every request that comes in for me, he sees, he handles, he gets back to the person. Or if I feel like I can handle it, I have the bandwidth at the time, then I handle it. But something as simple as a Google form, right, to handle your request. So there's no back and forth. So you don't miss an email. Those sort of things I did learn from what we call in the industry, their camp.

So that's so-and-so's camp. That's so-and-so's camp. But that's usually their manager or their business manager or ⁓ maybe their photographer or their lawyer. You don't have to know everything. You do have to have a working knowledge of your business, but you don't have to know every single thing. And so what these creators and working in these systems have allowed me to see is that in order to scale, in order to not be tired,

you do have to have some system of some sort and whatever that means for you. that's automation and technology, that's one thing. Like I schedule my own posts. I had a social media manager for myself at one point when I was really, really busy. I had a copy editor to help me with my emails that go out. ⁓ I have a website editor. Like I don't do my own stuff. I'm going through website edits right now. my website developer, she's sick of me. Right. And so.

You have to make sure that you do the same due diligence with your art that you do for other people if you're in the service industry too.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (37:19)
Gosh, this is so good. And the fact is is that you are walking both lines and again, I saw one of your reels, but you talked about Not having a creative routine because your life changes so much So I think this speaks to all the creators because you have to do all these wear all these hats and at the same time you have to give some of the hats away because otherwise you do burn yourself out and I'm sure you've seen that in the creator economy where so many of us are trying to do all the things including

Vannesia Darby (37:31)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (37:49)
Create still be creative

right you have to balance the business side but I am curious ⁓ how do you find inspiration do you still feel like you have to pull it out of you know wherever to be able to be creative on demand you got deadlines you got all the same I mean your goodness you're right now as we're recording a PhD candidate like what's going like again you guys understand I cannot get to everything she does in one interview so how are you able to pull out you know that need to

Vannesia Darby (38:02)
⁓ I'm here. I'm here.

Crazy. Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (38:17)
Be creative,

to be on it, and at the same time, find the balance of rest and just being able to refill yourself.

Vannesia Darby (38:20)
I'm

Yeah, I love this. one I have a lot of content. Yeah, like there was people that wasn't watching my stuff for years like you know what I mean? So people see me like you just post this video. I'm like that videos from three years ago Right. So one is always keep your looks similar Right, I always keep your looks similar because you can pull content ⁓ and two ⁓ I remember one of my leadership professors said if everything's a priority nothing is right? So you should be good at certain things at some point

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (38:40)
That's smart. There you go.

Vannesia Darby (38:54)
I've been doing social media since GeoCities and MySpace.

So there are certain things that I'm just naturally good at and I've gotten good, I've gotten better at over time. And so for some stuff I naturally do. I record people all the time. I can cut my camera on and record myself too.

All right, so I can record, I can edit, I can shoot, but I had to do all that for my job for artists. So you don't know the skills that you're even building that you may use for yourself. Again, coming from someone who was editing on Windows Movie Maker, okay? You don't know the skills that you're building. And so when it comes time for God to reveal you to the Goliath, you was already doing that. You already got the bear, right? And so...

So I think a lot of people are seeing me now, but this has been years of work that people did not see. And that's why I can't also get too hype about it. Like I'm grateful. Don't get me wrong, grateful. I can't get too hype about it because I know, I know what I was doing in the forest when nobody was looking. Like I was, you what they say, you weren't with me shooting in the gym. I was shooting in the gym. I was getting the phones. I was being dismissed by managers, right? Like I was the one be like, go get somebody else. I'm like, okay, I guess I go get somebody else.

Right? was the one that was quiet. I was the one getting into it with artists. I was the one trying to talk artists into getting on camera. Right? So now in 2026 people are like, oh my God. And here's the thing. You don't know when it's going to hit. So just be faithful. You never know. You never know when your integrity and your skill are going to match up and God's going to open that door for you. You don't know. And so you just got to be faithful wherever you are. And if it never happens to the magnitude that you think it should happen, it's okay.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (40:22)
Hmm.

Vannesia Darby (40:38)
because you are going to be faithful regardless. So then to that extent, you're not tied to the result. You worry about your effort. You let God handle the results.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (40:46)
Well, there was too many mic drops for me to mention and for a social media manager, you have just given me so many things I can't wait to clip and to share because this is just gold nugget after gold nugget. I have to ask this one question. This is one is selfishly just for me. So I yeah, but no, again, could keep it to be careful. You be careful what you ask for. I have here for this will be the three hour podcast.

Vannesia Darby (41:03)
Yeah, you got time. I'm just, this is my interview.

I'm here. You can do part two right now. We can do

part two right now.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (41:12)
Okay,

so one of the things that I have oftentimes felt ⁓ as a multi-hyphenate you have just named all the different things in the multi-hyphenate world I'm half podcaster half worship minister half this half that half that and all the things of course in the most importantly I always start my bio with husband father creative forgiven right so those roles have to be first I'm just wondering in terms of your personal Feeling of where God has you moving in this area, and I don't want you to label yourself

Vannesia Darby (41:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (41:41)
But I do want to kind of say, cause especially with the PhD and where you're moving, like I do wonder if there is like a place where you're like, okay, God, I need to know in terms of like, said like not next step, but just where I'm at as a person outside of all these other roles. So have you ever had to struggle with the identity piece or do you feel like, Hey, I've got it. It doesn't matter what work I'm doing. I feel comfortable in my own skin in terms of, know, whatever that particular role is.

Vannesia Darby (42:07)
I used to feel like that a lot because I would always have like, what am I doing? I'm entrepreneur, right? I, you know, I would totally like, I would be a liar if I sat up here and said, no. I think what kind of softened that voice in my mind is realizing that I'm Vannesia and I just so happen to do X, Y, and Z, right? So I'm Vannesia.

Eating gluten-free food and going on her walks and hanging out with her friends and like I'm her anyway I just so happen to work at Shondaland I just so happen to be getting a PhD and here's another thing too, and I think this resistance comes when you're also moving to the next level ⁓ Some people their capacity is just larger Like and because I've had a lot of people tell me like well you do you do too much. I do too much for you

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (42:53)
Mmm.

Vannesia Darby (43:01)
for you, right? And so again, you weren't there when I was praying down thunder at 3 a.m. Okay? Right? You weren't there when God was getting me up and I'm like, okay, what you trying to say? And I'm not knocking anybody's prayer life. I'm not knocking, none of that. I just know what I've been through, right? So when I got hit with autoimmune conditions, I'm like, God, was this part of the plan? Like, I don't think this was part of the plan, right? So I would say like de-emphasize the roles.

and double down on what it means to carry all of them. I'm to sound real churchy, but what it means to carry this level of anointing, right? So Jesus knew full and well he was Jesus when he was walking on earth, right? It wasn't like somebody came up to him and was like, oh, well, you know, you was a healer yesterday, but now you a prophet today. No, no, no, no, no, no, right? know what I'm

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (43:52)
⁓ my gosh. No. Yeah.

And the people in his own hometown say, isn't this Joseph and Mary's baby? Mm-hmm.

Vannesia Darby (43:57)
It's like right. And they put them in a box there.

Right. And so if we are walking in these same footsteps, of course, like the enemy wants to attack your identity. Wants you to second guess like, well, if you're a podcast and you can't be a marketer, if you're a marketer, then you can't be. Right. And so I had to say, okay, because I used to also get caught up and say, okay, God, it doesn't matter. Like the end result is going to be that I'm going to be obedient. And he said, yeah, but how you go through is going to matter.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (44:22)
Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (44:26)
If you go through thinking that you're limited, you're gonna feel limitation as you go through every role that he reveals to you. If you go through and think that I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength, that I lack nothing, that like if you go through saying the Bible to yourself, you will look up and be, there's no one more surprised than me about my life. Again, I wanted to do hair and be a producer.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (44:48)
Hmm.

Vannesia Darby (44:52)
I hated marketing. I begged my professor to round my 89 up to a 90 in marketing so I could not kill my GPA. I never saw this. So obviously I'm not the one with the plan because I wouldn't be here at all. I'm a background girly. The fact that I got a personal brand, don't fool nobody else but me. So yeah, you totally deal with that. But as believers...

You have to know that sometimes God will platform you and give you this heart for these people that only can come from him. Because I'm naturally very selfish. I'm naturally, I try to mind my business. I drink my water. I go home. Right? Like I'm not too much in the mix like that. Right? But God will pull you out and say, okay, yeah. And I remember I had someone tell me that was like, I think the industry may need someone like you though. I'm like, ooh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (45:37)
Yeah.

for such a time as this.

Vannesia Darby (45:50)
Yeah, and I was like, no. And so once I stopped saying no, and I was like, perhaps, maybe, you know, ⁓ then then it was like, OK, well, if I'm here, right, like if I say, for example, being on camera, right, and we call that talent in the industry, say your talent, if you were talent and you were going to be on camera every day, what would you do? You would probably make sure you drink water.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (46:07)
Okay.

Vannesia Darby (46:19)
Make sure that you get rest. Make sure that your diet is clean or clean for you. So why aren't you doing that stuff anyway? Right? And so that's what I remember God checking me. He was like, if you want to go speak and you want to do these different things, why aren't you in a bed?

Why you keep hollering about you're tired? How come you're not going to the doctor? How come you're saying yes to everything? How come you don't have a system? Like we're asking God to give us these stages and give us these followers and take us to the nations, right? You don't even check your email.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (46:47)
Hmm.

Vannesia Darby (46:57)
give you a stage on South by Southwest and you don't even check your email. You're not even nice to people. You don't like people. No, you're fine. No, I mean.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (47:02)
Gosh.

I'm sorry. I've been trying not to amen you this entire time I probably look I probably have the worst face for on for for the video watches cuz I'm like y'all she is

pre like this is as close to as a creative preacher we're gonna call you the creators preacher cuz you straight no chaser I mean

Vannesia Darby (47:24)
I mean, because like

it doesn't when you when you actually like sit there, right? like I'm gonna speak and you know, God always tells me to speak life. I'm gonna speak life. Mm-hmm. Speak life and make sure your routine matches

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (47:29)
Yes.

Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (47:39)
You want to do all you want a million dollars. You don't even have a business bank account. You want to pay your taxes like I'm just I'm trying to break it down as simple as I can because like that's where you're at. That's where the identity struggle happens. Right. It's because you're actually not doing the things that could sustain you if you were to get everything you prayed for anyway.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (47:47)
You are breaking it down.

What would that that goes back to is a one of my favorite Psalms where usually we talk about in terms of you know messing up really bad David and Bathsheba in Psalm 51 but it's one of my favorite verses where he says that God you desire truth in the inward parts and the hidden part you will make us me no wisdom it's basically a call for integrity just be who you are and do what you say you're going to do in the inner parts and that

Vannesia Darby (48:08)
Yeah. huh.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm.

in the inner parts when no one's looking.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (48:25)
Exactly, because all that stuff that happened with Abashiba happened in David's heart long before he acted on it. And that's all that God was trying to say. Well, what showed up on the outside, done showed up on the outside. just, everybody, God already knew, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go here, but you took me here. God already knew what was in David's heart before David knew. And he's like, all right, I guess I'm going have to send Nathan to show you because.

Vannesia Darby (48:31)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Right!

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (48:50)
I know

what's in your heart. like you said, now that David had everything and lost almost lost it all because he didn't keep preparing himself. Like you mentioned him back in the lion and the bear, he was preparing for this thing. And when he stopped doing the preparation, whatever he stopped doing and staying close to God and making sure he did the same system, which would have him ready for anything, a temptation or be ready for the next battle, be ready for anything.

Vannesia Darby (48:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (49:17)
So I love that this goes right back to creators because if we are not honestly following through with what we say we're praying for, you just said it. Even if we got it, we would lose it just like David lost almost everything.

Vannesia Darby (49:24)
Yeah.

Yeah,

and and he and God sent Nathan check him there's I was gonna say there's plenty of people ⁓ god, no But but there's plenty of people that check me There's plenty of people. yeah, you that ain't right or you misread that you misread that experience Or you were kind of nice nasty to them I'm like, what's yeah, it came off that way

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (49:32)
Yeah, yeah, and we need to welcome those people like you're doing right now. You're the Nathan right now, by the way, for a lot of us. You're the Nathan.

Hmm.

Vannesia Darby (49:58)
But that's their interpretation, yeah, but you're the one that had the control in the room, so you should have.

Stewardship, right? Stewarding your gift when you're the one on the platform. That's stuff that I'm learning now. It's like, ⁓ okay. I've had people that's been real mean to me. I'm like, I still gotta be nice to them? I was like, yeah, like, ⁓ Because you're gonna be the one to help change their heart and their perception about people.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (50:28)
Mmm.

Yeah. Yeah. gosh.

Vannesia Darby (50:31)
And because you're

not committed to people's opinions, you can handle that. Someone else may not be able to handle it like you can handle it.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (50:37)
or even I guess you said their opinions or their validation, because it could be on the opposite side where you just become that yes person that wants to try to get everybody to see things your way and like you, when you do have to be the person to say the uncomfortable things. I'm sure you've had to do many times.

Vannesia Darby (50:40)
Exactly.

Yep.

Yeah. Oh

yeah. Yeah, I had someone this past weekend look me up and down. It's like, okay, that's weird. You know, before I would be like, oh, did I do something wrong? You know, like, and then some people just, they, they, they don't understand it, right? Like a lot of people don't get me and that's okay. That's genuinely okay. Maybe God put me in your life to show you a new perspective. Maybe. All right. So then it becomes.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (51:06)
Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (51:19)
you as a creative praying for your village, praying for people that you can be accountable to and those will be few and far between. You don't have to be accountable to everybody. Right? Yeah. So exactly. Exactly. Praying for the village that surrounds you and then praying that you are still integral in everything that you do. And one thing I pray, thank you Lord. One thing I prayed when I left Motown,

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (51:30)
Right, right, for sure. The right community.

Vannesia Darby (51:47)
Before I started Moxie, I didn't want to work in the industry. I didn't want to work in the gospel industry for sure. And it wasn't that I was like anti-gospel. I was just tired of it. And I said, and then I think Sony called me and the RCA inspiration. And my old boss called me, the one with the plaques on the wall that broke her Franklin co-car. She was one of my first clients. And I remember sitting on my floor and I like, I just laid down. I said, God, I said.

I don't get this. said, you pulled me out of the label. I don't have any insurance. I technically don't have any clients right now. Only to go back? Like what? Only to go back as a business owner, which I don't want to be anyway. Like y'all gotta remember this is pre award. This is okay. Remember God had me put my awards under the couch. And so he said, yeah. And he took me to the scripture.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (52:24)
Mm.

Yes.

Vannesia Darby (52:45)
That basically says I'm gonna send you back to the land that you were exiled from. And he told me, said, when you go back into this industry, you're gonna go back with more sense of self, you're gonna go back with more integrity, you're gonna go back with you knowing who you are. Because you would have acquiesced yourself to that industry had you stayed.

And said, okay. And then I prayed, God in everything. And I remember getting a potential movie that ended up being a big movie. I didn't work on it. And I remember something about the deal was just shaky. Couldn't put my finger on it. And I was like, I'll pass. Right? Didn't want to pass. But I passed. And I remember praying. said, God in everything that I do, let my motives and my intentions be pure. That didn't know the magnitude of what I was praying when I prayed that. ⁓

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (53:28)
Hmm.

Vannesia Darby (53:34)
Cause there's a lot of nos that had to come. A lot of like, Ooh, I don't know. All right, let me think about this. And then I became known as, Nessie just don't say yes to everybody. I'm like, that wasn't the goal, right? And I will say this just about your platform. Funny enough, I had seen you online before and I was going to reach out to you. I know I wanted to wait till we were on camera to say this. No, I'm still rolling.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (53:52)
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. ⁓ okay. Stop the tape. kidding. Wait.

Vannesia Darby (54:01)
And I saw, think, cause I saw, I know you use Kit. So I used to work with Kit. I used to be one of their webinar.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (54:08)
I saw

you spoke as you were at Craft and Commerce. saw this. Again, we pay attention. We pay attention over here.

Vannesia Darby (54:11)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

And so I saw and I was like, God and get I was like, that's a really catchy name. Right. And I had seen you like, and I remember I'm go I have I have certain brands that I'm going to work with this year. And I remember putting God and gigs on there. And I did. I I'm telling this on camera. So you I say all this to say and then you end up reaching out to me. I was like, absolutely. It was already in the making. But I say that to say you never know who is watching.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (54:27)
NO!

Vannesia Darby (54:41)
You never know you, like you didn't have to introduce yourself to me at all. And you did and you were so kind, but I already knew who you were. I absolutely knew who were. And that's what it, when I say be as good steward you don't know whose desk you're going to slide across. You don't know whose feed you're going to come across. When you, and I started and I said, okay, let me look. Okay. Cause you know, all right, all right. And I saw your tech and I saw your community and I saw your posts and I saw all of it. And so hats off to you.

for being faithful over what God gives you because you don't know who you're impacting, who you're inspiring, and the people that come to you who crave and who need ⁓ spiritual instruction as they are having vocational success. That is so important. And so for you to feel that need, the people that need that or the people that resonate with that, they're gonna see it. You just gotta be faithful.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (55:40)
It is very hard to make a podcaster speechless.

Vannesia Darby (55:43)
Yeah, I remember I told my sister I'm gonna tell him this on it

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (55:46)
And yet, and yes, you managed to,

gosh, I have nothing. I've forgotten my closing question. This has become the most awkward ending because I am either blushing or crying. I'm not sure which one it is, what emotions going through my head. I see. guys, no. Okay. All I can say is that it is clear because of this connection that number one, that God is faithful, that there are no coincidences.

Vannesia Darby (55:54)
No, it's fine. It's fine. Don't edit this part out either, y'all.

You can do what you want, it's your podcast.

Okay.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (56:16)
And that every, even when the Bible talks about that, the rain falls and that every single seed that comes, it goes back exactly where God intended it to go. The seeds that you have planted and the seeds that I have planted, they grow together. And I didn't know they were growing together. I didn't know that my seeds were running, were headed over in your direction. But it's the same thing that you said. And what's hilarious about this entire thing, to come back to you, because I'm gonna continue to just feel so all.

Vannesia Darby (56:31)
Yeah.

And just, because it's your podcast.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (56:46)
So, so, so

crazy. The fact is, is that every time you had an opportunity, even though you might've initially thought it wasn't for you, you still ended up saying yes. So if you hadn't said yes, I couldn't have said yes. Right? Like you wouldn't have been there for me to be stalking you at the same time you were watching my content. And then you and I couldn't either be both really speaking to this tribe of creators who love God, who wants, as you just mentioned, they're being successful, but

Vannesia Darby (57:02)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (57:15)
If they lose their soul while they're getting that vocational success, what's the point? If they don't have people around them that will check them, that will give them that good business advice, what good is it? What good is a man again who wouldn't lose his soul? And so that's really, yeah, yeah, real success, real success, yeah.

Vannesia Darby (57:24)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's okay to have success, right? Yeah. It's

okay. It's okay to, well, I think it's also okay to, to be successful in the world in the sense of like, because I think sometimes we get humbleness mixed up with, ⁓ being less than in the sense of like, we don't have, like, I see people like, no, I don't, you know, I won't take the money. And I used to be like, yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (57:45)
yeah.

I wanna give all the glory to God, don't want any, right,

right.

Vannesia Darby (57:52)
Yeah.

And also like you worked hard, right? Like, because you also got to tell people the real, like I got to tell you, yes, God bless faith and works though. Right. So, so it's okay to go and get awards. It's okay to submit yourself for awards. It's okay to have a press package. It's okay to have a fee and to maybe not take the client if they can't meet your fee. Maybe you have a free tier. Maybe you give out content for free.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (58:02)
Mm-hmm.

Vannesia Darby (58:22)
⁓ Maybe you make something that can accommodate people who can't afford your prices. That's okay. And I think that sometimes in the faith-based communities, we don't talk about how strategic success can be. Because how are you gonna also be able to reach other people if you're not on those platforms? Right?

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (58:38)
Mmm.

Yeah.

So you just put something in my head again, we're just flowing here because I have no idea how they even close this out because it's so good. The fact that we are worried about, number one, if you're worried about being big headed, getting the award, you're like, God, don't want to, like you said, you were a background, I'm a background guy as well.

Vannesia Darby (58:50)
Hahaha!

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (59:04)
People get mad at me because as a accompanist, I never wanna be the front man. I always wanna be accompanying. I never wanna say I have my own work, I haven't promoted my own EP in 10 years. You know what I mean? Same situation where I was saying no where God was saying yes. But it just hit me when you were speaking, why would God even offer us the idea of mansions and crowns?

Vannesia Darby (59:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓

There you go. Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (59:25)
If he didn't want us to think about rewards, he wouldn't have presented them. But he literally says that God is a rewarder of those that diligently seek him. So the fact that he likes rewards and wants to give them to us means he's okay with us receiving accolades as long as we know where they come from.

Vannesia Darby (59:30)
Yeah, they'll do the least they can.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Exactly. And that's literally it, right? It's not lost on me where my help comes from. Ever. ⁓ I'm good, but I ain't that good. It's not lost on me. And so I think, again, going back to the whole identity question, you know, about like, do you ever feel...

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (59:47)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (1:00:00)
You know, like, am I doing here? Yeah, all the time, but my identity is not in the things. My identity comes from Christ. So if Christ says I'm here, and even with the Shondaland thing, you asked me, like, how did I get there? I didn't have a hookup in TV. I came from music. So I went through the application process like a candidate. And so I remember saying, if I get this, it's because God wants me to be there and I got it on my own merit. Because I don't have a hookup here. There was no one that knew me on that side.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (1:00:16)
Right.

Vannesia Darby (1:00:30)
And everybody that knew me, they weren't a part of networks or streaming platforms, they were independent. So I couldn't even have picked up a phone and made a phone call if I wanted to, I didn't have anybody. And so the question then becomes for creators, especially when you're in these different positions of influence, one, what do you me to do while I'm here? Two, why am I here? Like for me as well, because it also develops you. Why am I here? And...

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (1:00:55)
Yeah. Right?

Vannesia Darby (1:01:00)
I wouldn't necessarily say you have to focus on how long you're going to be there, but make sure that you understand when the season comes to a close.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (1:01:08)
That's so good.

Vannesia Darby (1:01:10)
So my time at Motown, it was incredible for my career. It was incredible for me to meet the people that would eventually become clients, right? That I didn't know was coming later on down the road. I didn't see that. ⁓ But I knew when I woke up that one day, I was like, yeah, I feel it. I'm gonna leave. I don't know where I'm going. But it wasn't scary then. But that comes with you being in tune with Christ. And so if I could...

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (1:01:37)
Yeah.

Vannesia Darby (1:01:40)
leave you all with anything is to make sure that you always know where your help comes from. Make sure that you are in so much lockstep with God that whatever opportunity that you get, you know that it's not solely for you. You will benefit, but it's not solely for you. ⁓ And as believers that are here to make more people in the kingdom, don't be shocked when you get places and you got a minute to the people. Cause a lot of my

A lot of my work comes with, it's crazy. I think it's crazy now, but a lot of people, I remember even in my PhD program, I was trying to wait till everybody left because I had to make a phone call. I was getting ready to dial the phone. The last person left out and they shut the door with them still in the room. I said, why are you still here? And they look at me and say, do you believe in prophetic utterances? I said, oh my God.

I'm trying to make a phone call. said, I guess I'm not making this phone call today. And we had a whole conversation about them and what the Lord was doing in their life in the PhD program. How they were able to pick that up, know, spirit, recognizing spirit, I don't know, right? And we had a whole conversation and then other people were coming in and then other people were believers as well. And one of them was a minister. So you never know.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (1:02:50)
Wow.

Yep.

Vannesia Darby (1:03:06)
where you're gonna link up, where someone's gonna need you. But just stay faithful and God will position you and ⁓ you'll be able to make a difference while you're there and it will fuel you because God will give that desire in your heart as well.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (1:03:19)
Well, I'm telling you, you may not have had experience in TV and movies, but your life reads like one. So the fact is that God took you from classical pianist to ⁓ not wanting to be a marketer marketer, to becoming a person again, who's literally in rooms where people need you in every single space you've been available. I guess that would be the thing that we'll close this off with, that you were available and willing to be faithful.

Vannesia Darby (1:03:24)
Yeah. ⁓

I know.

Thank you.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (1:03:47)
And so I guess we've already given such a great benediction to everyone in terms of how they should approach the rest of this life. But I guess I should ask you last question. If you could say something to yourself back when you were about to send that DM inside the Facebook. Now, did you know what you know? What would you tell somebody else who's about to do the exact same thing? Who's that exact same pivot point? What would you tell them just in the just in the nutshell ⁓ that would help them make that next step?

Vannesia Darby (1:03:51)
You

Yeah.

I would tell them that they're good enough. just because people can't help you right now doesn't mean they're not good people.

Yeah, I think.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (1:04:31)
That's so good. I am

so blessed. mean, like I said, we have to do a part two. We're going to have have you in the community. be here forever,

Vannesia Darby (1:04:36)
I'm here.

Yes.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (1:04:40)
This

has absolutely been a blessing. And I know that again, the seeds that you just planted fell on good ground. Whoever's listening and watching right now, this is because the heart of the woman that you're talking to is a hundred percent authentic for creators. This is the old school thing. You've been a marketer, so you know how it goes. They probably already tapped the button. They've already got the things, but just quickly tell them if they're old school and they want to write it down, how do they keep staying in touch with you?

Vannesia Darby (1:04:56)
you

Yeah.

Well, first of all, thank you for having me. Thank you for creating this platform for ⁓ people that are producers of content and creativity, but also are believers. ⁓ And so that intersection, I've been kind of on this lonely road for a long time. So it was great to bump into a whole community of us. You can find me at anywhere at Vannesia Darby That's two N's, one S, I, and an A. Vannesia Darby.com. At Vannesia Darby across socials on YouTube.

Anywhere that got an at sign and hashtag I'm there.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (1:05:31)
Yep, and I am absolutely sure that every single one of our community members is now linking up right now so that they can also be a part of speaking life just as you have. So thank you so much for being a part of our show and I'm sure and I pray it will not be the last time.

Vannesia Darby (1:05:37)
you

Awesome, thanks for having me.