First Meeting with a Financial Advisor: What to Expect

Thinking about meeting with a financial advisor for the first time? It can feel intimidating... but it doesn’t have to! In this episode, Austin, Josh, and Chase break down everything you need to know before your first meeting: what to look for in a financial advisor, which documents (if any) you should bring, and exactly what the process looks like. They'll also tackle some common fears people have going into their first time meeting a financial planner, and explain why you can leave them at the door! By the end, you’ll feel confident, prepared, and ready to take the first step toward your financial future. 

Watch the video version, read the show notes, or check out resources at thewealthmindsetshow.com/s2e32

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Transcript

You're listening to The Wealth Mindset Show, where Hixon Zuercher Capital Management's team of finance professionals, portfolio managers and a life coach come together to tackle complex topics in finance and retirement planning so you don't have to. From investment strategies and wealth management to tax planning, retirement income and aligning your money with your values and purpose, The Wealth Mindset Show offers the tools to thrive.

Austin Wilson:

All right. Hey. Hey. Hey. Welcome back to The Wealth Mindset Show where the Hixon Zuercher team helps you manage wealth, navigate retirement, and make smart decisions for a secure, meaningful future. I'm Austin Wilson, Chief Investment Officer at Hixon Zuercher Capital Management.

Josh Robb:

I'm Josh Robb, Director of Wealth Management at Hixon Zuercher Capital Management. Joining us is Chase Rose, one of the advisors at our firm. And, today, we are talking about your first meeting with a financial advisor-

Austin Wilson:

The beginning.

[0:49] - Life Updates: Olympics, Curling, and Ice Cream Shops

Josh Robb:

... what should you be asking, what to expect, all that stuff. But, first, just update on life?

Josh Robb:

Nothing real big. We're-

Austin Wilson:

No?

Josh Robb:

I'm wrapping up a couple of sports seasons, so basketball's winding down for my kids. Wrestling's getting there, and so we get a short break before that, all the spring stuff, track and softball and baseball and all that stuff.

Austin Wilson:

I mean, as of the time of the recording, it is the Winter Olympics in Italy. Curling? I hear you can go curling in Bowling Green.

Josh Robb:

Yes. I've done it.

Austin Wilson:

And I want to go.

Josh Robb:

You need to go.

Austin Wilson:

We got to go.

Josh Robb:

Mm-hmm.

Austin Wilson:

It sounds like a fun thing.

Chase Rose:

I'm down. Yeah. So -

Austin Wilson:

Ask Chase. He's the athlete. He's got to be going, "Oh, it's great." 

Chase Rose:

Not on ice I'm not.

Josh Robb:

I went for my birthday. We brought a group. And they have special classes where beginners can come. They spend a little time showing you and teaching you, then they let you play. And it's so much fun. They have these, I'm going to call them, crutches for better term. It's a PVC pipe, and it's designed so, as they slide out on the balance, for anybody who's not done that before, you use it as you're leaning on so you can slide out. So it makes that easy because it is... They make that look easy just sliding out there and-

Austin Wilson:

Oh ya. No, it's not.

Josh Robb:

It's not.

Josh Robb:

Yeah, but it's a long sheet of ice. And getting it to stop, like just a little bit of difference, I mean, their precision is incredible. Yeah, so fun thing to do, brooming the ice and all that stuff.

Austin Wilson:

Fun fact, those block or those-

Josh Robb:

All the stones.

Austin Wilson:

Only from one island in the entire world.

Josh Robb:

Yep, all the rock, completely.

Austin Wilson:

Completely. I know, it's pretty crazy.

Chase Rose:

They have a monopoly, if you will.

Josh Robb:

They do.

Austin Wilson:

Maybe that's why we're taking over Greenland. So we can-

Josh Robb:

Is that where it comes from?

Austin Wilson:

It's one island. I don't know where it's from.

Chase Rose:

The islands are very much sought after.

Austin Wilson:

And, Chase, you're about to reopen the [Dairy] Whip.

Chase Rose:

I'm not. My wife is.

Austin Wilson:

Exactly.

Chase Rose:

I'm there to help though.

Austin Wilson:

You're family.

Chase Rose:

Yes, of course, yeah. So we're about a month out. March 4th is the tentative opening date.

Austin Wilson:

Get your cream.

Chase Rose:

Get your cream at the ice cream shop, Kip's Dairy Whip. Kip is our dog, by the way. He has no role in making the actual ice cream. So if you have allergies-

Josh Robb:

- won't exist-

Chase Rose:

Yeah.

Josh Robb:

... at this point. But that's okay.

Chase Rose:

Correct.

[2:59] - Common Fears & What the First Meeting Really Is

Austin Wilson:

So let's talk about it... meeting with an advisor. Maybe, the first time with an advisor, you could be switching, you could be starting a relationship, but there's a lot of fear and anxiety I think when it comes to, "Oh, my goodness, I got to meet with an advisor. I don't know what to do. I don't know if this is the type of thing I should be doing. Like people might think, oh, I'm not organized enough or, yeah, I just don't want to be sold or pressured into decisions or whatever or, hey, I messed up a lot back in the past. I wasn't so good with money. I don't want you to judge me on my past decisions." So those are some fears, but what are some things that we really should be focusing about when we're talking about meeting with an advisor for maybe the first time?

Chase Rose:

Yeah, so, I guess, to combat those fears, to try to convince someone to overcome those fears, if you will, we have a saying here that really started with Tony Hixon, our CEO. He has a saying. That is, "turning chaos into order", and so a good advisor really should be able to take the chaos that is your financial life and bring that to some level of organization or some level of understanding, because you might not even fully understand your situation yourself, but, as we take all that chaos and we ask all the questions, you should be able to bring all that into order. And, also, like regretting any past mistakes, I mean, anyone has past mistakes. We're primarily... And I say we, being financial advisors in general, the plan is built around focusing on what you can do in the future.

Josh Robb:

Where you're at.

Chase Rose:

No one's going to say-

Josh Robb:

And where you want to go.

Chase Rose:

Yeah.

Josh Robb:

It doesn't matter what's happened.

Chase Rose:

Unless we're like amending tax returns or something, there's nothing we can go back and change. So, while we certainly need to know what's happened in the past just to understand how you behave, we're going to plan on the future, so don't have any regrets. Don't have any anxiety about sharing information.

Josh Robb:

Yep. You're right, and worrying about the past or not being organized enough, the first start is sitting down and finding out what do I need to know. And so don't think you have to have it all together to show up. Having that introduction with an advisor is sitting down and saying, "Okay, what do you need from me? And can you help me get all that information?" So you don't need to be prepared necessarily for the first meeting. That first meeting is, in a sense, an interview is. Does the advisor do and have the things you need, and are you the right fit for that advisor?

Austin Wilson:

Yep.

Josh Robb:

There's a reason why there's thousands and thousands of different advisory firms doing it a thousand and a thousand different ways is what fits for you, and are you the right fit for them? We meet with clients who are great people, but how we do things may not be what they need or how they want things done. So it's not that there's any offense taken. It's the same as when you go anywhere and are looking for what you need is, sometimes, you show up and sit down and, "I don't know if that's exactly what I want." That's fine. It's not like, "Oh, no, I'm breaking up with somebody, and there's all this weird awkwardness." No. Sit down. And both parties should be seeing "are we compatible with how we do things and what you're looking for". That's always what you're looking at at the front end, but they should help you-

Austin Wilson:

Oh, for sure.

Josh Robb:

... on what to bring and what they need to make sure that that works out.

Austin Wilson:

And I think that, at the beginning, it's so important to get to know someone on a personal level to understand how they are, how they think. You alluded to that, too, Chase, where, like, "Hey, it's really important to know how you view money, how you view risk, how you view..." What do you want to do with your life now? What do you want to do with it in the future, your goals, your dreams? This is how we can get there. That's what we're helping you figure out. So it's really a lot at the front end especially about getting to know someone, getting to know what makes them tick. And everyone handles money a little bit differently, how they view money, how they think about money.

Chase Rose:

And a lot of those conversations can even be around, like, "What type of conversations do you have with your spouse about money? What have your parents taught you about money?" because a lot of the habits that those people instill in you is what you carry into the future. And that really dictates how you handle finances yourself, right, so it's really important to know those things.

[7:09] - What to Prepare & What to Bring to Your Financial Advisor

Josh Robb:

And when it comes to what to bring, that really just depends on where you're at in your life.

Austin Wilson:

Absolutely.

Josh Robb:

We've sat across the table from people who walk in with nothing, and it's either all up in their head or they don't even know.

Austin Wilson:

Yep.

Josh Robb:

That's okay. We have people that come in and walk in with a binder full of stuff. And they're very organized and they have everything. And I've had people walk in and say, "Here's every statement I've ever gotten. I saved them all." Like, "Thank you. All I need is last quarter's." And they're going to say, "Oh, I appreciate all that work, but I don't need to know 17 years ago what your holdings were." Like you said, it doesn't matter. I don't care about the past. So what do you bring? What are the stuff that, ideally, if you could organize ahead of time, what are some of the things that most advisors would like to see? What do you think?

Chase Rose:

Yeah, so we will primarily focus on the key financial aspects, which are income, so tax returns are great, pay stubs are really great, current assets, so any account statements you have. If you have real estate, just come, you don't really need like a deed or anything like that, right? Just come with some information, key information like mortgage statements. Things like that are really important, too, what you're saving. So that can come from a pay stub or an account statement. Like it can be a 401(k) statement. It's just to know like what percentage you're adding, things like that. I think I mentioned the tax return already, but any insurance statements can be helpful as well. Debt, yeah, absolutely, I mean, really just any key factor that would go onto like a net worth statement or an income statement. You should have some type of statement for that that would be helpful. If you don't, don't worry about it because we're going to ask the questions that will gather the data anyways.

So that's the big thing that people shouldn't use as a hurdle to meet with an advisor. All I have to... Take all this time and collect all this information. You will at some point. A good advisor should know what questions to ask to get the information they need, and they should be able to help you find the information like where should you go to look for it.

Josh Robb:

Yep. And you may be wondering, "Well, I'm just meeting this person. I don't know if I'm comfortable giving away all this stuff." There's a lot of personal information for sure. A couple of things, one, only give what you're comfortable with because, if you're going to build a relationship, you can build that trust and then provide that. And, two, in our industry, there's requirements. So if you're sitting across from an advisor and they're registered and supervised by either the state or the SEC, they have their own rules on keeping everything confidential and secure. So, first of all, if you're meeting with a legitimate advisor, you shouldn't worry because, whether you work with them or not, they have to keep all your information secure and confidential, so just know that. But, two, share as much as you're comfortable with on the front end and then, as you build that relationship and start working with them, you should get more comfortable and provide-

Austin Wilson:

And I would say that, generally speaking, share as much, again, as you're comfortable with. But the more that you do share, the better the plan is going to be, the better the game plan going forward.

Josh Robb:

Yeah, and just to elaborate on that real quick, a lot of people, we've mentioned this on other episodes before, but a lot of people talk about diversifying their advisor exposure. Right? I'm going to have one advisor for this, one advisor for this. And that's fine if you need like an insurance guy, someone for estate planning, someone for investments, all that stuff. I get that. But, as an advisor, having all the information that we need readily available allows us to do our best work. So, when you have different assets at different advisor platforms, that can be hard for any of them to do their best work because they don't have the full picture.

Austin Wilson:

Yep. Plus, it's typically more affordable to keep everything at one place-

Chase Rose:

Absolutely.

Austin Wilson:

... based on the way most fees work.

Chase Rose:

Absolutely.

[10:50] - What Questions Should You Ask a Financial Advisor?

Austin Wilson:

But let's talk about a couple of questions you should ask an advisor. Suppose we're sitting down and you guys are the advisor, well, we want to be able to say, "Here are the questions I need to make sure I'm asking so I know the answers I need to know right at the beginning." So, first of all, I would say you're going to probably be hit with a lot of information, so bring a pen. Hopefully, they'll give you a pen and a piece of paper. That'd be a really nice, classy way to do that. But take notes. Right? Take notes. They're going to be throwing a lot at you, but it's really good to understand, "Hey, how do you, Mr. Advisor... Mrs. Advisor," whatever, "help a client make decisions?" Right? That's a good one.

Chase Rose:

Yeah. Yeah. And what you're really asking there is, "What are you offering? Some, which there's all different ways in our industry and all different styles, if you're more of a broker, maybe you do some advice, but maybe you have to... You can give recommendations, but you don't actually do actions until the advisor approves. Or maybe you are taking the ability to make decisions and doing that on behalf. So understand levels like what is it that you do? What is it that you don't do? And that's the questions that you're asking. What all do you cover? Maybe they say, "I give advice on this and this, but not this." So that's what you're asking "on how do you help". What are the things you cover? And there's, again, no right or wrong, how much are you looking for? Do they provide those?

Austin Wilson:

Absolutely.

Chase Rose:

Yeah. It's key to have an understanding of what the financial planning process looks like because, really, there's a lot of different ways that advisors get paid. You can be a commission advisor. You can be a fee advisor, fee-based. There's different ways of that happening. But if you want the best advice, you need an advisor that's what we would call product agnostic so they're creating value through the advice, not through any product. That doesn't mean that someone who sells products is a bad advisor. No. They should give you value through the advice that they're giving you, not through the product itself.

Josh Robb:

And that'd be the key. The term is fiduciary. And the determinant means is do we have to do what's in the best interest of the client or suitability? Are we only obligated to give you something that's suitable? There's two different levels. Fiduciary says, "No matter what, it has to be your best advice." Right? And that's the highest level that you want, and that's what you should look for for advice. How and what they do transaction-wise is separate, but are they acting as a fiduciary when they're providing that advice is key.

Chase Rose:

And, also, it's important to know how advisors get paid, so make sure you're asking that question as well. Managing risk is a really important part. Like how do you manage your portfolios during certain market environments?

Austin Wilson:

Absolutely.

Chase Rose:

How do your portfolios change, how do they adapt, things like that, and really just what the meeting process looks like, because you're in your first meeting and like where are we going to go from here? Those are really big things.

Austin Wilson:

And then any additional things that you can give me as an advisor outside of just my investment management. Maybe it's life insurance assessment, estate planning assessment, tax planning. There's a lot of different factors that are in addition to just typical investment management.

[13:59] - What You Should Expect from a Good Advisor

Chase Rose:

Absolutely. And another thing that you should know of, you should know leaving the first meeting, "What does this advisor expect of me?" because we outline this really well at our firm. We call this our client engagement standards. It's a two-way street for a client-advisor relationship to be successful. Advisor has their role. They're administering the advice. They're collecting information. They're following up in a timely way. But the client also needs to be able to provide that information to the advisor, so it is a two-way street. Understand what's expected of you.

Austin Wilson:

Yeah, I think a couple other things that you should expect also from the advisor is, yes, clear expectations, clear explanations. That's, of course, very important there. But, also, they should be really listening. So maybe if you're finding someone who's driving the conversation and just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk and not letting you get words in, maybe not a great fit because they're trying to understand you and what works for you, and that's probably more important. And then, of course, you should never feel pressure when you're in those meetings to buy a product or to get into X, Y, Z thing you can't understand or get your mind around.

Josh Robb:

Hope that there's no timeframe, like, "This expires at-

Austin Wilson:

Tomorrow.

Josh Robb:

"... midnight if you don't."

Austin Wilson:

Yep.

Josh Robb:

Yeah. You shouldn't be rushed. It's a big decision, to decide someone that you trust to work with you with your finances, so, yeah, make that... the other one, and we kind of... Referrals. You can always ask for some sort of reference or referral. "Hey, is there someone I could talk to that's worked with you that I could get their experience?" Right? That's big. Most advisors should be able to provide you with a list of references on that.

There's, again, going back to industry regulations on things we can and can't do with that, one of the nice things is we can't know actually what they're going to say, but, as long as they've given us permission to be on our reference list, we can provide that contact information. We don't actually know and nor are we allowed to coach them or know what they're going to say. They couldn't be a negative, but they've offered their name as a reference, so that's the nice thing. Don't be afraid to ask for that because they could at least give you an idea from someone who's gone through the process of what to expect.

Austin Wilson:

And I think one more final thing that you should expect from the advisor is someone who really helps you focus long term, because anyone who's trying to say, "Hey, we're focused on short term performance, quarterly performance versus whatever," like that's really not helping your overall thinking of, "Am I meeting my plan or am I not?" They should be focusing on, "Hey, what happened?" We can talk about what happened in the quarter. But did what happened in the quarter keep you on track to meet your 20, 30, 40-year goal or your long-term way of thinking there? So I think that's key, too.

Josh Robb:

Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the complexities of managing your wealth? At Hixon Zuercher Capital Management, we specialize in helping affluent families and individuals navigate the complex challenges of managing their finances. Wealth management is all about combining thoughtful financial planning with active investment management to help you reach your goals. Our process is designed to guide you toward what truly matters because, well, it's a vehicle for something much more meaningful in your life. Achieving your dreams requires careful planning, smart decision making and access to high-quality investments. That's where we come in. If you're ready to take the next step, visit hzcapital.com/start to see if we'd fit in to your needs and to schedule a call. Again, that's hzcapital.com/start. Now let's get back to today's episode.

[17:24] - How Hixon Zuercher Capital Management Approaches Meetings

Austin Wilson:

Which brings me to, let's talk, Chase. Walk through our process here at Hixon Zuercher Capital Management and how we approach those meetings, and kind of how that process of onboarding new clients looks like, and why we do that as-

Josh Robb:

Yeah, so this process... Sorry. This process is our way, but you should see something general. It doesn't have to be exactly like this, but there should be kind of progress or our movement through this same style. It's not like we came up with this amazing thing that no one else does. It's actually based off of the CFP, Certified Financial Planners. They have kind of a framework of what a good financial planning process should be.

Chase Rose:

Sure.

Josh Robb:

This is it in our words.

Chase Rose:

Yeah, and so what we typically do is, if we don't already... Excuse me. If we don't already know the person who's coming in for the first time, we'll do what's called an intro call. That's just to get a feeler out there, right? Who are you? Where do you come from? How did you hear from us, or how did you hear of us? And we'll tell you a little bit about ourselves. We'll get a basic understanding of your situation. If you don't think we're crazy, if we don't think you're crazy, we might do the next meeting which we call a discovery meeting. That's where we sit down in-person, hopefully, or over Zoom if that's what we have to do, and we kind of dive deeper into a lot of the key aspects of a financial plan.

That's where you bring the statements and kind of try to elaborate as much as possible. We're going to ask a ton of questions. You should be asked a ton of questions in that first meeting with an advisor because, sometimes, it might take 10 questions for you to provide one recommendation. That's very common just as long as you're digging deep enough. And then how we do it is, after the discovery meeting, we just collected a ton of information. It's going to take us some time to digest all of it, to put it into a way that's presentable to you because you might have 15 statements, but you've never seen everything in one picture and how it all plays or how it just looks. How does your financial situation look? So we aggregate all that into a really great software that we use. And we produce a presentation for our clients that we give to them at the recommendations meeting.

Now, this is just a taste of the kind of work that we do. So we're showing them how we do our retirement planning. We tell them about the history of our firm. We're giving them their key aspects of their plan. We've identified their goals and, if they want to work with us, we propose to them what we would typically invest, how we would invest-

Austin Wilson:

Whatever it looks like.

Chase Rose:

... their portfolio. Yeah, what does this look like, what are the investments consist of, things like that. And then we give them a really hard sales pitch, and they decide before they leave.

Austin Wilson:

And lock the door. Yeah. Yep.

Josh Robb:

Now, we encourage every person who comes in our office to take some time and sleep on it. We have a process for following up if we haven't heard from you. But we genuinely want people to make a well-informed decision that was not rushed. So that is a key aspect. Our plan is sleeping on it, and then we kind of go from there, whatever the direction leads us. And, the reason we do that, we truly believe that it's hard to build trust in one meeting. Right? So we want to see you multiple times before you make a decision so that you get a feel of how we work, you understand who we are, and we understand who you are. And we hope after three or four meetings that there's some trust there that we can start building on.

Chase Rose:

A lot of times, we'll have that big discovery meeting. We're asking a lot of questions. The client or prospects are talking a lot. And then, when we follow up and we're giving our presentation on kind of how everything works, one of the things we ask is anything else... And they'll usually a lot of times have two or three questions that they thought of afterwards. And we want to make sure they have a chance to ask those. You're right, a couple of meetings gives you a chance to get comfortable. And then you usually draw out more questions because, as you start hearing and asking, "Oh, I also wanted to know that." You're right that it's very useful to have a kind of multi-step process to help get comfortable with what that looks like.

Austin Wilson:

And I even think it's good to understand that, after that point when you maybe decide to or to not work with an advisor, that's the beginning. That's where the real work starts. Right? So you've just given information and you said, "Hey, this is going to be a good fit." The advisor agrees, "It's the same thing. We feel like working together." This is where the work actually starts, right? So we're just comfortable with each other at this point.

Chase Rose:

Yeah, you're just hiring somebody at that point. Yep.

Austin Wilson:

But this is where you're going to have, okay, now we have a whole list. And, specifically here at our firm, we've got a whole onboarding agenda that we're going to be doing over the next year or so which is very in-depth and probably more in-depth than a lot of people go just because there's so many different steps. But this is the beginning. And it's a great thing, but that's where we finally say, "Okay, well, we're comfortable. We have a plan, but now we need to implement the plan."

Chase Rose:

Exactly.

Austin Wilson:

And that's where it takes some work.

[22:04] - Ensuring No Financial Stone Goes Unturned in Your Life

Chase Rose:

Absolutely. Yeah. That's our way of making sure that no financial stone goes unturned in your life. Right? And it takes a lot of work, and it is a lot of work for us and the client. But after that first year, once we kind of get on a good trajectory, that's where the work really starts to pay off, you start to reap the benefits of the decisions that you've made so.

Josh Robb:

So, in summary, again, you're interviewing a prospective advisor who's going to really help you move forward with your financial plan, right? That's the key. So you need to feel comfortable with them. You shouldn't feel pressured. You should be able to ask any question and not feel like it's imposing. It should be an open relationship. That's what you're looking for. You want to make sure it fits your style. Do I like control? Do I like someone else to manage? You got to find the thing that fits what you're looking for. There's a lot of advisors out there. Find the one that you're comfortable with, that understands where you're going, understands your situation.

You may have unique things that you need to find advisor who knows that piece, right? So maybe you work for a specific company or have certain benefits, maybe you work for the government and you have pensions. Find somebody who understands that and can help you and just be comfortable. That's the key for all this. Understand what you're getting into and know that that's what you're looking for and what you need.

Chase Rose:

Yeah, you need to be aligned with them as well. Maybe you're interested in someone's financial planning work, but maybe your investment philosophy is on the total end of the other side of the spectrum. That might not be the best relationship. And I would say, I would hope, that if you're meeting with someone and you get to know each other and one of the parties determines that it's not a great fit, most often, I mean, there are plenty of advisors out there, you should... We have a couple of people that we know of that we would refer people to if we just don't think that-

Austin Wilson:

That do it differently than us.

Chase Rose:

That do it differently than us. Absolutely. We try to have an abundance mindset. There's plenty of advisors out there that do good work.

Josh Robb:

And I'd rather see you find the right person and be happy and moving forward than try to fit you into something that doesn't.

Austin Wilson:

Absolutely.

Chase Rose:

Exactly. Yep.

Austin Wilson:

Yep. Well, thanks for listening. Chase, thanks for joining Josh and I for this episode today. If you found it helpful, hit that subscribe button on whatever podcast player you're listening to us on so you don't miss the next episode. Also, we're pretty active on social media, so follow us on social media and connect with us there. And if you're interested in understanding more about what we do at Hixon Zuercher, you can head to hzcapital.com/start. And you can also find this on our show notes and stuff like that, but this would allow you to have more resources on how Hixon Zuercher Capital does this and onboards clients and works with clients. So we'd love to have you check us out there. And don't forget to check out some free resources at thewealthmindsetshow.com. Otherwise, have a good one. Stay warm, and we'll catch up soon.

Josh Robb:

Bye.

Chase Rose:

Bye.

Thank you for joining us at The Wealth Mindset Show where we tackle the complexities of finance and life planning to help you align your wealth with your values. We hope today's conversation provided value and clarity as you navigate your financial journey.

Your hosts work for Hixon Zuercher Capital Management, and all opinions expressed by them or any podcast guest are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of Hixon Zuercher Capital Management.

This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for investment decisions. Clients of Hixon Zuercher Capital Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast. There is no guarantee that statements, opinions or forecasts provided herein will prove to be correct. Past performance may not be indicative of future results. Indices are not available for direct investment, and any investor attempting to mimic index performance would incur fees and expenses that could reduce returns. Securities investing involves risks including the potential loss of principle, and there is no assurance that any investment plan or strategy will be successful.