Imagine living in a world where you're not defined by societal expectations or driven by the need for external validation. How liberating would that be? Well, that's the world we're exploring today with our special guest, the author of The Courage Circle, Sandy Stream. We examine the damaging cycle of external validation, and how the point system we often live by, can cloud our self-perception. Sandy's insights into self-compassion and self-worth, devoid of societal pressures, offer a refreshing perspective on self-acceptance that could shift your entire outlook on life.
We touch on a realm many shy away from - our emotions, and the fear of confronting painful ones. With Sandy's guidance, we navigate the oftentimes treacherous landscape of our feelings, and dissect the idea of being "decorporeated"- our tendency to disconnect from our bodies and rely on our minds. We talk about the power of therapy in understanding triggers and emotions and emphasize the bravery it takes to face our pain head-on. We also share a common fear of disappointing others and the constant pressure to always appear strong - a sentiment many of us will find relatable.
Lastly, we delve into the often intimidating topics of detachment, ego, and the courage to face the unexpected. Sandy beautifully illustrates how letting go of expectations, trusting in life, and welcoming change can lead to fulfilling experiences. We highlight the importance of accepting reality over clinging to expectations, and how it aids in managing inner conflict. And as we wrap up, we touch on how our personal choices can lead to peace and truth, highlighting Sandy's personal journey of sharing thought-provoking ideas. So, come join us on this transformative journey to explore the depths of self-worth, courage, and self-acceptance. It's a conversation unlike any other.
Follow Playing Injured on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/playinginjured/
Imagine living in a world where you're not defined by societal expectations or driven by the need for external validation. How liberating would that be? Well, that's the world we're exploring today with our special guest, the author of The Courage Circle, Sandy Stream. We examine the damaging cycle of external validation, and how the point system we often live by, can cloud our self-perception. Sandy's insights into self-compassion and self-worth, devoid of societal pressures, offer a refreshing perspective on self-acceptance that could shift your entire outlook on life.
We touch on a realm many shy away from - our emotions, and the fear of confronting painful ones. With Sandy's guidance, we navigate the oftentimes treacherous landscape of our feelings, and dissect the idea of being "decorporeated"- our tendency to disconnect from our bodies and rely on our minds. We talk about the power of therapy in understanding triggers and emotions and emphasize the bravery it takes to face our pain head-on. We also share a common fear of disappointing others and the constant pressure to always appear strong - a sentiment many of us will find relatable.
Lastly, we delve into the often intimidating topics of detachment, ego, and the courage to face the unexpected. Sandy beautifully illustrates how letting go of expectations, trusting in life, and welcoming change can lead to fulfilling experiences. We highlight the importance of accepting reality over clinging to expectations, and how it aids in managing inner conflict. And as we wrap up, we touch on how our personal choices can lead to peace and truth, highlighting Sandy's personal journey of sharing thought-provoking ideas. So, come join us on this transformative journey to explore the depths of self-worth, courage, and self-acceptance. It's a conversation unlike any other.
Follow Playing Injured on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/playinginjured/
Welcome to another episode of Playing Injured. Definitely excited to have Sandy Stream on the show. She's the author of the Courage Circle and she actually sent the book to me in advance, which actually most people don't do, so I appreciate you being gracious enough to do that, but I'm excited to have you on the show.
Speaker 2:I'm really happy to be here, Josh. Thanks for having me and giving me space to share these ideas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it, and I can't wait for you to share it. First, though, I love starting a show with who is Sandy? How does she spend her time today?
Speaker 2:Well, if I introduce myself in the typical way people do, then I would say that I'm a lawyer, I'm a graduate from a prestigious university and I have two kids, blah, blah, blah. But that's not really what I feel is each person's essence, and so those things put aside titles, careers, jobs, kids, dogs, cats. Who is Sandy? And a human being like everybody else, with walking around with my heart and doing what I got to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. And early on when I started the podcast I started getting the side hustles and different things out of my typical nine to five and I just realized that, hey, I'm more than just an IT project manager. I have so many different facets to me and, like you said, the essence of who we are. And in your book you kind of put it kind of in a way that I never heard it before, where we kind of have this point system in society Great job, perfect body, tall, perfect spouse. In a way, we kind of just broadcast that on social media. We try to get our points on social media followers. It's a lot of different ways we can have this point system. And so for you to put it there of like, hey, let's kind of drop this point system, this make believe that's right, talk about that, the idea of that, how did you kind of come up with that and how do you see that?
Speaker 2:Well, I guess I see that there's just a constantly comparisons, we're always comparing this and that and I need to achieve this and that. And it seemed like people are chasing some kind of points, like, ok, I'm going to get a certain amount of points if I get this law degree. I get points if I get this size house. I get points if I do this and that. And so it got me thinking well, what if I'm like someone's like really depressed and they managed to get up and take a shower, Like do we give points for that one? You know? Or you smile to your neighbor today like where's my point? The whole thing.
Speaker 2:Just all of a sudden it fell apart for me this whole idea of giving people points that way. And I think the underlying tone of that point system is that if you're not doing all those things, then you're not anything right. You just get some 60 or 80 or something to be of some kind of value. And so if you take that away and just look deeply inside, and whether you do it through meditation or journaling or breathing or whatever, a lot of ways work for different people. And if we come to feel I don't say realize intellectually, but you come to feel yourself in a deep way. You might come to see that you're actually good.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Simply that. And so when you have such a deep compassion for yourself and you see all that, then this kind of chasing points it just falls apart Like there's no need, you can do nothing and you're completely fine. And then the way for me to test if you feel okay about yourself is to be able to sit down and do absolutely nothing and feel good about yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. And you also talk about this idea that a lot of us have is, like, what is wrong with me, you know, like, oh, I'm not good enough. It's all. These kind of projections were put on us at, you know, infants, adolescents, even as adults to some degree. Right, it's always some type of limitation or whatever the case may be, where we think something is wrong with us, of why we can't accomplish something, why we can't do certain things in life. And I think we try to get it through this point system, right Through external validation. Oh, you know, you know, people say I can dress, people say I can do these certain things, people think I have a great job, I live in a great place and a great part of the city and all of a sudden you kind of lose yourself to some degree, right, yeah, yeah, it's understandable, right, that this feeling would arise of what's wrong with me, if I believe it's constant, adult and child, that we are getting this message right.
Speaker 2:So it could be literally people telling you and I've heard many people in the circles say they've had parents say literally what's wrong with you, Like all the time. It could be more subtle, like you only get love or validation if you do well in sports or do well at school or do well at whatever, and otherwise you're less or you're kind of something not good about you. So that could be a lesser and it could be constant in adulthood. Let's say you know you share like, you know I really feel sad about this, and you'll get a tone of like what's wrong with you. You should be grateful, Like it's just all the time. I think it's actually constant.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I hardly not encounter it, and so it's really probably hard to say I don't buy it and no, and I don't agree with that. That's not what I have found in my research and my research. What I mean is that I've researched inside and I don't believe it, and it's very hard to do without at least somebody having you know open that possibility and not just to be good enough, because even that word you must have read. I really don't like it because it makes it like I'm just good, you know, I can get to 80% and that's, that's good enough, and it still makes you feel a little bit like well, it could have done better, but I'll just like settle for 80. I don't even buy that. For me it's 100. Like we're all 100. Yeah, we're doing that with doing nothing.
Speaker 1:Well, and this idea, you know, like I said, kind of you can get lost, kind of trying to get this external validation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's great, it's sad.
Speaker 1:It's sad and I think a lot of people end up realizing when they do have all the external validation in the world, they have an amazing job, amazing house, car, marriage or whatever case may be, but something inside of them doesn't feel satisfied Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's starving.
Speaker 1:It's not, it's starving, right, this idea of finding yourself, though, right, because I think a lot of times that's what happens. We chase this point system. We chase kind of this external validation, not really following our heart, following what's inside of us. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so. So I think we're doing great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we catch up and we're in the next round.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is this idea of kind of finding yourself? How do people do that in a world where you're kind of glorified for having this amazing point system?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, like you saw, we were mentioning before, like the book has so many small chapters, because I do think it's many little pieces, it's not like okay, meditate for a minute a day, you're gonna find your. It's like you have to. There's many weird pieces that just will. That, for me anyways, came together.
Speaker 2:But, I think one super, super important thing is to stop demonizing our emotions, because what we feel is not just oh, it's a girly feeling, emotion and weak and whatever else. What we feel is a very strong indicator of our path, of what we need to do. So it can start off by just I feel sad. But if you throw that away or you don't listen to it, you don't have the guidance from it, right? If you feel sad instead of like, okay, I shouldn't feel sad, let me just go do it everywhere, let me just tough it or whatever, you don't look at it and feel it. So maybe you need to process some old pain and you need to literally process, like our bodies need to process and things pass. Or maybe it's gonna tell you some need you have. I'm lonely, okay, maybe I should get out there, meet people, maybe I need to talk to it Instead of criticizing yourself.
Speaker 2:And then, if you feel angry which is a very valid and healthy emotion which is often also demonized it might be telling you you know what I'm not feeling respected. And we're not talking about doing anything to anyone. We're talking about just feeling like, allowing yourself to feel we didn't do a thing to anyone, we're not gonna hurt anyone, we're not going to lash out, we're just feeling ourself right. And so when we start to at least feel our emotions and again, I wouldn't say feeling anger for the purpose of controlling people, that's a whole other type, but just your own anger it's so important to feel it and understand it and process it and everything like that so once we're used to processing and listening to our feelings and then hopefully also process all the old ones that we didn't get to process because we don't have space or time or help or whatever else to process, whether old traumas or whatever else so now you're in the feeling world, which can definitely look cuckoo and chaotic and all over the place for some time, but eventually they process.
Speaker 2:And then now you're in the feeling state, but without having constant things to process. So we can now feel life. Like you can feel music, you can feel the earth, you can feel the sun, you can feel, oh, I feel like it should do this next. Oh, I feel I should go up to talk to someone or just kind of follow it. Like you know, you start feeling life as opposed to just living in the head and thinking about things. So this cutting off of our body. I used the book, the term you saw it's called Decorpetated.
Speaker 1:Decorpetated yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which I don't even think it exists. I Googled it at some point and it was like a weird word, but it's like we're cut off from our body. We're not used to looking at the body to see what it feels. We're looking for answers in our head instead of what do I feel. And a lot of people in my circle and there's a lot of men, but not only men we literally had to learn what they feel Like, literally say okay, do I feel, what do I feel Like? You know, there's feeling wheels and all kinds of things and to figure out what does my body feel? Actually, it's so sad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really sad. Yeah, it is sad, and you know, for me, as a man, the best thing I've been able to do over the last year and a half or so maybe, yeah, last year and a half or so is go to therapy right, and start to understand triggers right In the body my chest sweat over my forehead right, sweat over the forehead okay, what's going on here? Usually, when I'm sweating in a uncomfortable situation, I know I'm being self-conscious, I'm thinking about myself instead of worrying about others. You know, tightness in the chest oh, this is anxiety, right? So you talk about feeling it in the body, in allowing yourself to say, oh okay, this is what I'm feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, starting to name it is the first step because ideally parents would have done that. When you're young, oh, you feel sad. Oh you look like you're mad. Oh you look like you're this confused. But a lot of people are not raised with parents who are doing that. They're just being told what to do or having their feelings ignored or whatever. So we don't even know, we haven't even put a name or a label to what feelings are. And sometimes we have to do start as adults, and it's possible. You know, we just have to. It's all possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you talk about sitting with the pain too. We talk about these emotions and different things like that and actually sitting with them, and it can be. I think in today's world it's so tough because we have so many distractions. If I'm feeling a certain way, I can always just scroll on my phone, I can always turn on a YouTube video. That's gonna distract. That's right, right, yeah. So it's tough, you know, and I think a lot of times in the past the other time, pure, as you were able to sit with the pain of using your day to day, yeah, so what are you looking folks to do to stop avoiding that and race sitting with that pain? I know it can be tough, you know.
Speaker 2:It could be really tough. Especially we don't have very supportive environments sometimes to help us, sometimes with pain. So maybe you're not ready, but I mean, if you're ready, right, and there's a bit of trust in the body, the body will actually guide you, you know, if we listen to our body. But for me, you know, my I don't know how exactly it happened, but I had real blinder, not blinders, but like a serious, serious focus that I just wanna know the truth, like I don't wanna know what's nice or painless or uncomfortable or comfortable or fun or not, just what's the truth. And the truth is sometimes that we have pain, and so that's the truth. The truth is that it's there. So, yeah, you can go watch YouTube or you can go whatever, but the truth is that it's still there, right. And so what I started to realize is that if I listen to it and let it process, after pain comes peace. So you literally have to go to it, feel it, deal with it, process it, learn from it, listen to it, whatever, and then you then it's done. And if you don't, then you're just always living in pain, basically right. And so it's hard and I really commend you for starting therapy, or anyone who does, because what that shows is immense courage to face pain. Basically, right, that's what you're doing.
Speaker 2:If you're going to therapy, it means, okay, I wanna see pain, right, I wanna see what's going on with me, what hurts me and why and what did I go through. And for me, it's definitely like a very beautiful step of loving yourself and showing yourself that I matter. I matter enough to go and deal with this, because if you don't get help, for me it's the opposite sign, right, like I don't deserve to be happy or I don't matter enough to get well. So for me, asking for help is an extremely, extremely powerful move for a human being to make. It's the step out of I don't matter into. Hey, I matter enough to like, do stuff to get myself well, which is what I did as well. Like, no, I wanna get myself well, I wanna feel good, I wanna take care of myself. So good for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I appreciate that and I think it's the courage to face the truth.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:You know a lot of things that I've also learned. We talk about sitting with our emotions. A lot of times I am not. I don't want to disappoint people or I don't want to. I wanna please everybody right. And so these emotions are hidden. You know they are deep inside, to the point where I was tough for me to even get them out. You know it's art for some. You don't wanna be seen as weak. You know you don't want to show these negative emotions because you don't want to, like I said, kind of disappoint people. You always wanna feel like, hey, I'm strong, I'm okay. That is a true Wrong with me, you know, in terms of emotion, I'm fine, I can keep going, but it's not true.
Speaker 1:It's not true right?
Speaker 2:No, it's not.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So if it's not true, then why? You know better to live in truth and make decisions based on what's true than make decisions based on something that's not true. So if it's true, then for me it makes more sense to make choices from that spot. And in terms of what people think, or people please and again, it's not like I speak about things as if, like I know, I know If anything I wrote about or think about is because I was probably doing the opposite, right? Otherwise it wouldn't be a lesson for me, but for me what I came to realize in terms of what people think, right. So let's say you know, I decide that for the next 10 years, josh and Mary, they're the two people who are going to decide if I'm a good person. They're going to decide whether my decisions are good, whether to approve of me or not, whether I'm stupid, whether I make good choices, whether I'm a good achiever. Those two people, josh and Mary, here you go, take it.
Speaker 2:So that is literally. It's not an opinion, it's factually giving them the power to make all those decisions instead of me, right? And so people use those words a lot in power. I'm going to take your power back, but it literally is no, not Josh and Mary will decide these things, I will decide these two things, and if you don't do that, then you literally have given that to other people and so you're not even making choices anymore. They are making your choices in life. You're not doing them because you're basing every choice based on whether they approve or not approve or anything else. So it really is a question of taking back your humanity and making your own choices that come from the inside, and not giving that most important power, the power to choose, to other people. But it's hard, it takes courage, but then, when you get used to it, it takes no courage. It's obvious, but at first I think it's a huge change to make. Psychologically it's very hard, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is hard. I'm speaking from myself of. I think I grew up most of the time as a people pleaser and having a fear of actually being seen as maybe a bad person or rude or whatever the case may be. Yeah, that was a huge fear of mine and even, to some degree, it still bothers me, right yeah?
Speaker 2:Well, it makes sense. Well, did you if, for any reason, like, were you only giving love or approval or acceptance if you're nice to grandma, oh, then you're a nice boy, and if you're not nice to, oh, you're not a good as opposed to just saying, look, this behavior is good or not, but I love you. No matter the love. What is it? Constant? No matter what that's very rare. I don't really see that no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't just say it doesn't happen, but, like you said, it is rare and I know it didn't happen For me. It was performative based. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the good news is, josh, that I can assure you this unconditional, unconditional approval and love is something we can give ourselves, and you likely will never get it from anywhere else in the world. I think, mathematically speaking, it's unlikely to ever get from another person unless you meet people, unconditionally love themselves, and then maybe they can offer that. But otherwise it doesn't make sense, right? How would you expect someone to unconditionally love you if they don't even unconditionally love themselves, right, right, that would be pretty unlikely 100%.
Speaker 1:And you know, that's what I've noticed. I've noticed that we kind of put projections and stuff on other people's our own kind of mess.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just been that manner. So how about this idea of trusting life?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, we talk about loving ourselves and having the courage to go out and get out of our comfort zone, and just trusting, just allowing things to happen and knowing that everything is for our benefit. Right, and how can we see life that way?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, there's a beauty and a perfection to life that exists, and it's not just perfect if, again, I guess, it's unconditional, so that doesn't exist. Only if this one behaves this way and this one behaves that way, there is, I think, an order or a perfection that exists. That being said, back to the feeling aspect, right? So if we follow our feeling and not worry about where it's going to take us and just follow it, that's really, in my view, the best bet. We have to take the right path, like what else would we follow? And so if we follow that, then in my view.
Speaker 2:We are going with life because we are life. Right, our feelings are life. That is what we are. If we follow that, then we're like I don't believe anything. I just want to go this way.
Speaker 2:But if you believe in yourself, for me it's like believing in life and if life is somehow feeling like you should try this or go here and you trust and hope for the best. So for me it's not like sitting there, do nothing and let me see what life does Absolutely not. For me, it's listening and actually acting, doing whatever it seems like we should do and then not worrying about what happens. So, for example, okay, I felt that I'm going to talk to Josh today and I'm going to Josh and I have no idea what's going to happen after that, and that's fine, because we cannot, absolutely cannot, predict the outcome of this show. I can't predict the next two sentences. You're going to say Like we can't know who listened to what and goes off in their life and does this or that. So just follow and trust that life has some way that it follows itself, and just realize that we are life. We are not just a nothing. Each person is a walking life, like a wind, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's just letting it flow and allowing things to unfold. And if we can have, I feel like, if we can have that mindset, it would be easier for us to be courageous, right To take that step, knowing that we probably can't control the outcome anyway, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the first leap or the first time I started saying okay. I'm going to be courage. You know, it was like it was literally like jumping on top of a trainer, like really felt like that at first, and now I don't feel it, because it's like a constant way kind of, but at first to just like follow something that I don't know if it's a good idea or not, or should I leave this?
Speaker 2:or you know or whatever else. It was super hard to do. I think now, with time, I realize that, like you're not necessarily comfortable where you are, it's just that you know it, but doesn't mean it's comfortable. It might be actually super uncomfortable, it might be miserable, it might be in a miserable relationship, but I know it right. So what we're really afraid of is not discomfort only, but just that we don't know what's going to happen If we do something right. But not knowing. If we start to twist that around, you could see that that means, oh, there's a billion things that can happen. That's awesome, right, like you couldn't see it as like, oh, there's like a million possibilities, not just one.
Speaker 2:So one example if it's okay that I mentioned, I was like, okay, let's say you go on a bike ride and you get on your bike and you think, okay, I'm going to do 10K, I'm going to go over that mountain, I'm going to do whatever, I'm going to do a good workout, whatever. You have in your mind that that's how it's going to be your one hour bike ride. And then you know, 20 minutes into it you get a flat tire. So now you can spend the next 60 minutes thinking how life didn't meet your expectations or who knows what, and you know busy wondering how is it that everything doesn't work the way I think it should, and controlling it and whatever, and disappointed because you had expectations and all that. Or the other way is like, oh, okay, flat tire. Okay, now what am I going to do? Oh, you know what? There's this coffee shop. I felt like trying that's like two commerce. I'm just going to go walk in there and see what happens.
Speaker 2:So, with that mind of not getting stuck when things don't go your way and thinking okay, like okay, maybe what am I to learn from this? Or just being open to things not going as you think they need to go, this openness when the flat tire happens literally changes your life, because now, all of a sudden, you're like maybe I'm going to have a nice walk and reflect and you get this amazing idea for your next project. Like, who knows right, there's a billion things that can happen in those 20 minutes if we are open. But if we're closed and like, oh no, it didn't go what I thought, it constricts life and it's not even realistic, because it is unrealistic to think that you're going to go on a bike ride for an hour and that it goes as you plan. You don't control life. There's a million factors that come into play in every moment. We don't control that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and basically detaching from an outcome not being attached to the way something should be yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, when it comes then, being open to it. Maybe it's a lesson, maybe it's something to learn from, maybe it's I mean, it's there, so why fight it? It's here, okay, so, okay. So like, instead of being upset at it, you're basically upset at reality. You can be open and accept reality and hopefully process it quickly, instead of processing it for the next 10 years, except, okay, this is the situation or this is my feelings, or this is whatever is real, right, the truth, and then making a choice from the truth. The truth is I got a flat and it didn't go as I would like. That's the truth, and maybe process your feelings right away. I'm really upset. I really wanted to go on this by-ground. I'm upset about it. Process it instead of fighting it, and then looking at what's possible or what to learn from it or something, instead of being upset at life.
Speaker 1:Right, no, what is ego right? I think a lot of us. First, I want to hear first your definition. What is ego for?
Speaker 2:you. Well, first of all, almost nothing in the book I would say is just mine, because I probably picked up pieces from anywhere and everywhere. Maybe what I was really able to do is just a good compiling or something. So I don't want to say anything. Exactly mine, because who knows where and what things come from.
Speaker 2:But for me, what worked, for me to really understand that is to look in myself. Again, everything was looking inward, of looking at anything, that is, feeling superior or inferior to anyone else in anything. So this feeling of superiority and inferiority, to look at that and then to realize, for me at least, that at the heart level there is no such thing. At the heart level there's the same kind of equality between all human beings. We may not like behaviors, and that's fine. I can definitely, and I have very strict boundaries, by the way, very strict about a behavior that's happening, but it's not deep, it's not in the person, because at the heart level I think there is no distinction as people might think there is when they're dealing at the inferiority, superiority level, which is hard to look at at yourself. So forget what other people are doing, it's always look at me, what am I doing? What am I doing? This, am I doing this? So am I looking at others as if I'm superior to them or inferior to them?
Speaker 2:That's what we need to look at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and is it true, as always.
Speaker 2:That's the question. The question is is it true? What's the truth? Am I actually superior or inferior to somebody? Deeply, and my answer that I found was no. Yeah, that's the truth that I found in myself, but I'm not going to tell others what to find in themselves.
Speaker 1:You're right. But you know and I remember hearing this first time I heard this was maybe, probably about five years ago it's like you know, you can't have it inferiority complex. If you don't have in superiority complex, so have a superior to others, you'll feel inferior to others as well. Right, and from then on out, I've done my best to try to not allow kind of, like we say, the external, this point system I love that phrase this point system. Hey, I have this amount of points, we have this amount of points. Therefore I am superior. It's nonsense, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's absolute nonsense. And you know I can't tell you the courage that I see sometimes in the group because somebody has been in a certain situation and managed to do some move, of whatever kind. How can you compare that to somebody else's move in a totally different life? They've had a whole other life and they do another move and they do this move and we're now like doing some comparison. It's nonsense.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's absolute nonsense 100%, and I am from my belief. It does make you wimpy to some degree. It makes you the opposite of courageous when you are so hell bent on this external validation because you don't want to ruin it, you don't want to lose points. So I don't want to step out and kind of maybe trip and fall and yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, because it's hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's super hard. I mean, most society probably operates on that. So, yes, people are going to think this and this and this and that, but they will anyways. That's how people yeah, if somebody's judging, they're always judging anyways, no matter what. So you're not going to escape it by behaving this way or that way. So, yeah, but it's not easy. If you've lived your whole life. No, I wouldn't, and it's not easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so courageous courage. When I think about courage, I think about that. You still feel some type of fear.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Otherwise it wouldn't be courageous, right.
Speaker 1:You still feel some type of fear. Yeah, you still feel some hesitation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like that's part of your past life that I would love for you to share with us.
Speaker 1:How do folks kind of see feeling comfortable as being uncomfortable and being uncomfortable as a comfortable place?
Speaker 2:I guess for me it's all about like inner conflict, right, to start to see that, you know, to start to notice when we are not at ease, right. So the example that happened to me recently, and it's actually true. So when all those wars started, I had felt deeply, like you know, I know I'm doing my circles and I did my book, but I feel like I'm going you know it's not my cup of tea and I get actually a bit nervous of doing these things but I thought, okay, maybe I can start a channel or on Telegram and start just posting and I haven't done, like social media posting and all that. And so here we have an idea that has come to me, right, that I feel I should do. That's all there is right now, right, and the other piece is I'm not doing it. These two are coexisting right now. I haven't done it and I feel I should do it and I'm a bit scared to do it. So they're now both inside me and that causes conflict, right, because I feel I should do something but I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's fear, but you see that inner conflict, and only when I do what I feel I should be doing is there a resolution or a resolving of this inner tension or the inner conflict that was going on. And then I started it and now I feel like, oh, I'm at ease because I'm doing what I feel like I'm supposed to be doing, right. So we have this message all the time. You know, I feel I should leave this relationship. Or I, you know, I feel like I should go travel a little bit or whatever somebody feels they must do in their life, or I should go get help with a therapist. And as long as it stays brewing in there and not done, you know there isn't the resolving and you are in dis-ease. You are unease, right, internally you're not at ease, and so it's something that I've noticed.
Speaker 2:The pattern in myself, like you know, when I do feel scared about doing something I want to do, I actually now reverse it in my head and realize I guess I better do it. That's why I'm nervous. If I wasn't nervous, it probably doesn't really mean anything. I wouldn't care about it if I wasn't nervous. If I was like I think I should do a telegram challenge. But if I'm like I should do it, but I'm so nervous to do it, it's almost more potent because it has that element which means that it's important to me. Otherwise why would I even be scared about it? It's because it's important that I get nervous, because I kind of feel I have to do it right. So the fear starts.
Speaker 2:So, that's maybe just one example, but I think it's a bit of a muscle, though. When you start doing acts of courage and they could be anything they could be calling a therapist or setting your first boundary, which I think is extremely difficult to do, setting boundaries if you've never done them it's terrifying. It's not only scary, it's like terrifying. But then again, what happened for me is there was once an event whatever family event and then I set a boundary at the event and there was chaos and everyone was upset and everyone disagreed and I don't know what. And then I realized the next morning, even though I was crying and I told my friend about it, but I'm like, oh, but I feel at peace myself because I did that Even though outside there wasn't peace, but inside I was like oh but I actually feel at peace about this.
Speaker 2:So now that's what I follow. I follow my inner peace. That is my job in my life. That's my job, yeah, that is my responsibility, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's huge, that's it.
Speaker 2:It is yeah. And if each person took responsibility I don't mean in a critical way, but if they actually took responsibility and said my job in my life is to find my peace, then don't think we'd have peace in the world. I mean, that is the way we would find peace. We're not going to self-peace by solving this country, that country. I don't think it's going to happen that way. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I think it is internal right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It could be hard to find peace, like we said, and when you know finding, you know setting boundaries. It can be hard when you have always pleased everybody, right.
Speaker 2:It's extremely hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he's like oh my goodness, yeah, you're scared, you're going to lose relationships.
Speaker 2:They're not going to like me and they're never going to talk to me again. They're going to think I'm a jerk, oh yeah, but your boundaries again, these are strong, strong indicators of you. Like boundaries are not rules, I'm putting on people and trying to control people. Boundaries is your body telling you this is not okay with me? Yeah, that's it. If you don't respect that, then you are saying no to your body. Your body tells you what to say and instead of saying no to them, you're saying no to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, You're saying no to something right To you. If you don't say it.
Speaker 2:If you don't say no, I'm sorry I can't go tonight, I'm so tired, or if you don't say no, like I don't want you to yell at me, I'm leaving. Then you have ignored your own body's clear message to you that this is not okay. You have said no to you. Yeah, you said yes to them. No to you.
Speaker 1:You get to choose yourself and it's so empowering.
Speaker 2:Yes to you, yeah, yeah, you need to say yes to you.
Speaker 1:No respect, end up respecting you and end up you get a chance to either kind of lose folks that probably won't be able to, won't be great for you anyway, and you attract people who will be amazing for you in your life when you start.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and what I experienced and others have told me the same is that when you're doing that, you may find some periods of alone. You have to be able to stand alone for some time when you're maybe moving away from a certain way and going towards another way, and it's hard to be to stand on your own at some point. But, yeah, I agree with you that you may lose certain or transform certain relations and then new ones might come. But, for example, like if you told me Josh, you know, sandy, I cannot do this podcast today. I'm not feeling well, you know I'm sick and I'm not well and I'm like, oh, you should have whatever. I can't believe you. That's right versus a friend that might say, really sorry, you feel that way. Really, hope you get better. So someone who respects your boundaries versus doesn't respect your limits and your boundaries. So which one do you want?
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, and it takes courage, huge courage.
Speaker 2:It's so hard it's so hard, sandy.
Speaker 1:You've man, just your. You know you talk about essence in the beginning of the episode. I can feel that you have an amazing essence.
Speaker 2:And I can feel yours. You have like amazing, beautiful energy, josh. Honestly beautiful, beautiful energy.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that it's been it's, it's taken work. You know and you know. I think that's something that folks don't know. I think, naturally, we all have our own amazing energy in essence, yes, and I think it's important to embrace it and not just go with the flow of society and a flow of life and really sit with yourself and go through those periods of aloneness, go through those periods of being willing to change and being willing to develop your own life and kind of go against the grain of what you see everybody else do and enjoy it. And all of a sudden you've created or you found that energy that you were meant to have in the beginning of life, and you said it in a book perfectly. You said, hey, we are deeply perfect, that's how we start, and it's just amazing to be able to get back to that person again.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so beautiful. He said thank you so much for saying all that, 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1:Sandy, where can, where can folks find you? I would love I know you and I we chatted before the podcast and you talked, you talked a little bit about it, the first step of courage, you know, creating a telegram. I know you sent me the link so I'd be able to put that in the footnotes of this episode, but I would love to kind of give you the floor and share where folks can continue to find all things. Sandy.
Speaker 2:Well, I have a website called the courage circlecom, and that's where there's the link to my book or if you want to join the meetup.
Speaker 2:So if you come to Montreal, you can come in person. We meet every Sunday at a yoga studio, or online on Wednesdays, and they're free. And, as I mentioned, I took the step since the most recent wars to start posting every single day, and I will post every single day until I feel I shouldn't just any, you know, anything I can to encourage people to just find their own piece, because that's what I feel is the path to finding peace in our world. So that's the telegram channel I just started called the courage circle as well. So that's where I post anything. It could be all kinds of things.
Speaker 2:And yesterday I was posting how a simple idea that came to me about, you know, can you do a twirl in the park, just twirl in a public park, and all the emotions that might come up to do that, and can you do that, and why not, and whatever. So I get a lot of ideas all the time, so it's great for me to also have somewhere to put them. So yeah, all kinds of things pop up, and if they make people reflect on things, great. If they don't, that's fine too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. Well, I can speak for myself. The courage circle how to live in truth in there. It's an amazing book and, sandy, like I mentioned to you, I love the way this book is written, where it's multiple different ideas. That's about a page or two and it's so many things. It keeps you turning the page and I think that's what it's all about. Especially in today's world, we have so much short form content of TikTok and Instagram Reels and this book feels like that, where it's constantly new ideas that I'm able to read on a daily basis. So this is an amazing written book and I encourage everybody to get it. It's amazing. So, sandy, I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate you, josh. I think you're a wonderful example of, you know, men really making choices for themselves that are helpful to our world, so I'm super happy to meet you.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that, sandy. That means a lot. That means a lot. Thank you, take care.