Cultivating Identity and Purpose with Jonathan Cohen (EP 117)

Have you ever felt the spark of inspiration flickering within you, urging you forward, yet found yourself grappling with how to channel that energy into action? This week, Jonathan Cohen, a seasoned attorney and Host of Inside the Inspired, joins us to unravel the intricate dance between motivation and inspiration. As we navigate his world, where discipline and purpose are the compass points, we uncover how these forces shape our lives and propel us toward our true north. Whether braving the biting cold for a morning run or embracing the potential we each hold to make a lasting impact, Jonathan's journey is a testament to the power of living aligned with our deepest values.

Strap in for a voyage into the heart of identity formation, where the steps we take are both the map and the terrain of our personal evolution. Our conversation takes a deep dive into the role of actions in crafting the self, exploring how adopting the traits of the person we aspire to be can cement our sense of self and aid in healing past wounds. Jonathan sheds light on the transformative nature of mindful breathing and presence, offering a beacon to those yearning to navigate their way through life's tumultuous seas. And as we reflect on the path of our own podcast, it becomes evident that these exchanges are more than mere dialogue; they're the building blocks of metamorphosis, for both host and listeners alike.

To cap off our exploration, we extend our heartfelt gratitude for the communal learning that has blossomed from this platform. Our dialogue on the art of inquiry and the sharing of personal stories underscores the vital role that authenticity plays in resonating with our audience. As we consider the profound connections forged through shared narratives, we celebrate the symphony of voices that have joined together in this auditory odyssey. With each episode, we reaffirm our dedication to not only our personal growth but to nurturing the growth of our listener community, united in a journey toward enlightenment and empowerment.

Follow Jonathan Journey:
https://www.instagram.com/insidetheinspired/
https://linktr.ee/insidetheinspiredpod

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

All right, Welcome to another episode of playing injured. We have Jonathan Cohen, Mr Jonathan Cohen, who isa an attorney, executive coach and then host of the Inside the Inspired podcast. Jonathan, how we doing.

Speaker 2: 0:23

I'm doing very well. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm a big fan of what you're doing and you know a lot of love for the mission, so keep it up.

Speaker 1: 0:31

I love it. I appreciate that Well, you know, always start to show with who is Jonathan and how does he spend his time. Today I know we got a chance to kind of chat a little bit about what your day looks like and kind of what life looks like. But love to share with the audience.

Speaker 2: 0:50

I appreciate the question. I ask a similar one at the top of my podcast in terms of the mission, so I'll try to answer it in the lens of the US. Who am I? I am. I am someone who's very value-driven and focused on making an impact, trying to leave the world in a better place than he found it, and I do that by sharing my experience working with individuals in the realm of public service in two different countries over the course of five years, both as a criminal prosecutor and special victims and as an infantry combat commander in the Israeli military. Through those experiences I learned a lot, and so how I translate those experiences into today is through the discipline and the structure that I learned through the military.

Speaker 2: 1:44

I channel that through my training and the values of being a good person. There's a saying right the benefit of being a good person is that you get to be a good person. So I do my best to live in to that sentiment on a daily basis by leveling up myself and, in turn, the people around me the best ways that I know how by sharing and spreading positivity, inspiring and motivating where I can, hyping up people, letting them know that they belong in this world they're worthy and being of service in many different ways, sometimes using my body, sometimes using my mind and philanthropy is a big pillar in that as well. We could talk about some of the things I've done philanthropically, but in a nutshell I'm a family man, a father and a husband. First an athlete in there, performance coach as well, podcast host, musician, among a few other things. But we'll kind of leave it at that. How I spend my days is, like I said, just trying to make the world a better place, one day at a time.

Speaker 1: 2:50

Yeah, I love that man. I was just telling you before the show and before we hit record. I love the content that you post and you do add a lot of value to folks and you add inspiration to folks, and it's not just through this is my fancy car, this is my fancy suit but through example. I remember I think it was a yesterday or this morning, 17 degrees outside and you're out in the cold, running right, and I got inspired. I put my shoes on, let me come outside of Chicago. It's a little different, though. It's below zero. I said whoa. But no, just examples like that. I think that's how you inspire folks and I was listening to a podcast. I went to kind of get some inspiration kind of for this episode and was listening to a podcast a few weeks ago, turned it back on today to kind of get your perspective on it.

Speaker 1: 3:48

But motivation they talk about the difference between motivation and inspiration. Right, and motivation is more of an external push, meaning like, as a coach, I'm clapping you on, I'm pushing you right, and then inspiration is more of an internal pool, meaning like everybody has their own thing, that they're inspired by their own thing. That kind of gets them out of bed, and it's more of a cause, more of a purpose, right? What would you say? That is for you, your inspiration? What kind of pools you to run outside when it's 17 degrees outside out of New York? What gets you to do that?

Speaker 2: 4:33

Wow, what a question. Usually I'm on the other end of the mic, so to have these questions posed to me already too deep. I'm like man, I do not make it easy on my guests, so I know what you have to do on the other side of this mic is not easy. I think the way I'll answer that is kind of twofold. I think there's a big misconception around motivation these days. We talk about, you know, discipline over motivation, and something that I'm really doing my best to highlight recently is that motivation is the denominator in that equation. Right, discipline over motivation, and what I mean by that is motivation is made up of our values, what drives us, and purpose is one of those motivations. And so when we talk about the internal extrinsic versus extrinsic right, those internal poles versus you know the reasons that we do things for glorification what drives me. I think that's why I go out in 17 degrees to go find out right, like where are the habits, routines and rituals cemented in me as a practice? Versus like what am I doing? Because I want a six pack, and when I operate on a daily basis, I know that it's not the six pack that's driving me, because that's a little too extrinsic, to the point where it's not worth it to get up and run those miles in that cold. There is something deeper that motivates me, and so motivation can be categorized into like four main buckets.

Speaker 2: 6:10

You have advancement, which is, you know, that promotion that you want to get. You have purpose, which is, you know, that lifestyle or impact that you want to make. You have individuality, which is about the clarity around your lifestyle, the way that you want to live. And then you have madness. Maybe you're driven by competition, maybe you're, you know, driven by, you know, an enemy or something. And so, for me, purpose and individuality, or key motivators for me, they drive me. I want to make an impact right, and so I know that my word doesn't carry any weight, but what I do, compounded by what I say, may just make that, may just make that impact.

Speaker 2: 6:53

And so when we talk about, like, the fancy cars or the nice houses or any of those things, those are all really cool, but I think there's a big movement around redefining what success is these days, and you know, happiness versus fulfillment, and it warms my heart to see that. I think it's, you know, tough to distinguish between what people think makes them happy versus what actually makes them happy. And it's funny because, like I'll get a dopamine hit from booking a guest and having an awesome conversation or making a good amount of money or whatever it is, and then I'm like boom onto the next thing, like I almost don't take a second to relish in how awesome the experience that I just had actually was, and that's why I try to implement gratitude into my life as well. Right, like you got to take that time to reflect. So, to get back to the top of the question, it's like what is it that makes me want to do these things?

Speaker 2: 7:50

I think I'm still almost figuring that out. Part of it is I know that discipline is the vehicle that allows me to go do it, but I also am desperate to see what I'm made of. I think that is a massive aspect of like how far can I really push this thing? Being all natural, eating, for the most part, whatever I want, I don't really eat candy or, like you know, do stupid things. I eat a lot of calories, but I don't really mess with, you know, bad stuff. I don't drink alcohol besides, like a glass of wine here and there. It really is just a matter of seeing what I'm made of at this point, and for me that is. That's interesting, because when you're in that space you can meet a whole other side of yourself, and I really want to meet that other side of myself. So I think that probably answers the question as best as I can.

Speaker 1: 8:43

I love that. You know, you know what it's interesting, right, because I think, oh no, we can kind of help each other. I was watching kind of more interviews that you were a part of and mentioned that you had. You know you struggled in school growing up, right, me too, right.

Speaker 1: 9:02

So struggle really really hard in school, was always behind when it came to reading, was always getting pulled out of class to kind of work on my reading skills and pronunciation of words, and it was funny because it was just me and other kids that were just learning English for the first time, right, they were speaking Spanish, primarily at home, and so it had a crazy effect on myself image. Man, my smart, something is wrong with me. Now I look up and it's like whoa, you know, how far can I push it, how far can I grow? Right, I'm trying to turn a corner. I'm still thinking about that little kid that struggled in school, the little kid that was overweight, and it kind of drives me to some degree. How would you say that affected you growing up? You know challenges in school, the effect it had on your self image, how do you think that's affected you today?

Speaker 2: 10:10

That's another great question. I had a guidance counselor that we were paying to help me get into college College counselor will call her and Harvard educated, really smart, you know, helped with the personal statement and you know the applications and the whole process. And I had a guidance counselor at school who recommended that I apply to Muhlenberg College and where I attended for four years. And when I told my college counselor where I wanted to go with my parents there so I was like, hey, this is a school that may take me, it's a bit of a reach, but I got a shot she audibly laughed. I still vividly remember it. She audibly laughed in front of everyone and said if you want to go there, your parents will have to buy a building.

Speaker 2: 11:12

No-transcript, it still stays with me but it's important, I think, to remember that at some point you have to outgrow those moments, right Like the same moments that motivated you to get to a certain place aren't necessarily going to be the same ones that motivate you to get to the next. So when I think about who I was as a kid struggling with learning disabilities and reading comprehension, people thinking, structure of my thoughts I feel like I always aim to be kind to that child. I always aim to give myself as much love in those moments. And there's a great book called the Body Keeps the Score, and I read it because when I was a criminal prosecutor in the Bronx, I dealt a lot with victims who suffer from trauma. I specialized in domestic violence. So you meet a lot of victims that deal with heinous crimes and things that happen to them, and when you're taking out the inf, distilling the information, getting the facts from the witness, you're re-traumatizing them to some degree. They have to live into that experience over again, and so I wanted to address it from a more informed perspective. And so that book I still actually have it with me, it's on my bookshelf somewhere and it taught me the value of presence. And it also taught me about inner child work and the value of being kind to yourself, to your younger self.

Speaker 2: 12:52

And when I think about what that experience was like growing up and how it motivates me now, like I read voraciously, I try to be a sponge, I try to have humility, I try to always I comment things from a place of yes, I'm confident, but only based off of this wild trail of evidence of things that I've done, that I'd be crazy if I didn't appreciate where I'm at. And then, at the same time, there's a whole bunch of humility that's like, well, even though I got all this evidence Goggins calls it the cookie jar how do I leverage all of that into this new experience? Right, like it's proof that I could do something, but like I haven't done this new thing yet. So how do I know that I can?

Speaker 2: 13:41

And so I think inexperience can be leveraged to your benefit, because you have, like this blind naivete. And so that little boy sometimes when I'm driving on my hour, commute each way to work, I pretend he's in the passenger seat. I'm like how you doing, man, you feel good, things are okay. I try to give him, I try to you'd be proud of who you turn out to be, and you're still not done yet. And so, like those moments give me a sense of self and a sense of accomplishment only look back to see how far you've come kind of mentality.

Speaker 1: 14:20

Man, I love that All right. First of all because I've been doing that work recently and I would say because you wanted to. When you go back and you look at kind of your childhood traumas and like for me to go back and look at, okay, yeah, this is where some of these insecurities have happened from kind of childhood, and like you go back to re-experience it, right, and you want it to happen quick, like, okay, I went back, I re-experienced it, I want it to heal fast. But it takes time. And I think what folks don't realize is that the work of going back and kind of looking at past childhood traumas and different things like that can take you a long way.

Speaker 1: 15:10

Talk about that a little bit. You mentioned a little thing, right of, hey, a little kid in the backseat, right, that's an exercise, right? Who does? Have you kind of gone through to kind of, I guess, heal those things, kind of continue to grow the work. I know it doesn't stop, right, I know you're probably still learning, but what have you done to continue to get that growth on that path?

Speaker 2: 15:34

So I never really thought about the passenger seat aspect as an exercise. I think I might extract that and share it as some content later, actually in the future. But that's very interesting that you identified it is that I never really thought about it like that. But in terms of other things that I've done to reflect, I think building my body is a massive, massive, massive part of this whole process, because through strength, through body awareness, you gain mental awareness. So things that I've done to heal, I would say, is try to create as much proof for myself as possible by doing intense physical challenges or engaging in immense life experiences, or taking on important responsibilities, holding myself accountable, showing myself what I am capable of. For me, that is very, very healing, because you're not a prisoner to your past, right, like you don't have to sit there and say, oh, I lied to my teacher when I was in the fifth grade, or oh, I failed that exam, or oh, like I was mean to that kid, or oh, like I didn't understand what that happened. And those aren't all examples that pertain to me, but just for the audience, right. So when I look at for me, I'm an attorney, so everything is rooted in evidence and I remember I had a case when I was at the DA's office. You know I had to tell the victim we couldn't move forward on our case, and the reason was because I found out that she had lied. But she was one of those like pathological liars, and so I had to approach it in a way that was like how can I irrefutably present the fact that we can't go forward in a palatable way? And so what I shared with her came to me in the moment was what I believe in. What I can prove are two different things, and so sometimes you need to act your way into being a new person, even when people want to like get a six pack. Some people like Greg O'Gallagher he'll share like listen. You got to envision yourself, and you also got to act like you're already there. You got to stop eating those foods, right, because that's what a person who has that body would do. So I try to create as much proof and engage in the types of behaviors that I believe the type of person that I want to be would actually do. So the type of person that I want to be is able to wake up at four o'clock in the morning after he ran 20 miles a day before and get up train again, take on a flight, land, go to work and be there by nine am. Then he has a full productive day at work. He eats nutritious meals, he's adding value to the people around him, he's commuting home and then he's recording a podcast, he's working on content, value generating activities, winding down, going to sleep, waking up, doing again the next day right.

Speaker 2: 18:52

So it's about engaging in behaviors and following a positive thought pattern that I think ideally creates this again unreasonable trail of evidence that if I look at, it's like look, come on, everything you've done, you're out the field, you've kind of not made it, but that you are who you say you are, and that has definitely helped me calm my nervous system. And something else I think, just on the nervous system note, is learning how to breathe Learning how to breathe through my nose and be present in the moment and not think about what happened or what could be and just focus on what is. Those are some very, very important things and very, very important practices that have helped me level set my life and add value to the people around me and heal myself, if you will.

Speaker 1: 19:49

Well, I think that's some tangible breath and being able to breathe and taking your time. First of all, it makes you present, right To focus on your breath. But you said something. To kind of go back, you said some things that you did that are really interesting. Right, you literally changed your identity Right With the actions that you took. You, like you said, you have to act.

Speaker 1: 20:13

The best way to become a podcaster is to record a podcast. The best way to become a writer is to write, and I think a lot of times we say, hey, you got to fake it till you make it. And it's not necessarily faking it, you are actually acting. Your identity, you got it Right, and so I think that's huge to actually put action behind the identity that you want. And then, once you actually do the actions that you said you were going to do or that match that identity that you want, you create that trail of evidence, like you said, and you build confidence and now you grow and develop and eventually, in a way, you kind of become this new person when you look up five years later. I think that's huge. I love how you put that together.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Nice man, you phrased it perfectly right where you got to act your way into it. And it's just a lot easier once you stop putting the pressure on yourself to act as if you're pretending. Like you have to kind of give yourself permission to pretend that you are on this mission of getting that body achieving that mindset, accomplishing that goal, saving that money, building that business whatever that is for you, you're allowed to act your way there. You're not supposed to commit fraud. There's a difference between committing a crime right, there's an intent. A lot of things come down to intent. Intent, defined by the law, is a conscious objective. Like you actively know that you're making someone believe something that isn't true, you want to. There's an element of malice involved and, with this, acting your way into success doesn't mean that you're deceiving someone. It means that you're trying to level yourself up by positively speaking about yourself, viewing yourself and giving yourself a chance to do the things that you know that you're capable of doing.

Speaker 1: 22:19

I love that Inside the Inspire, right, you're over 100 episodes looking at the folks of you interviewing some really amazing folks from all walks of life, right, and people are always asking me this, they're asking me this question as a podcaster what have you learned out of all the podcasts that you've done? What have you actually learned the most? It's crazy when I get that question right, but when you start to realize that it is some type of theme that you get right, what do you think you've learned if you were to kind of write a book right or compile all these interviews together into one? What do you think is the main theme that folks can do to maybe get some more inspiration in their life? To learn from folks who are very much inspired in their day-to-day life.

Speaker 2: 23:16

Well, I appreciate recognizing that through line very much. I would say that just to give the audience a bit more context. The podcast is a show interview style for the most part, that features high performers that the guests range from entrepreneurs, authors, professional athletes, experts and more. I've interviewed judges, I've interviewed doctors and medical professionals and these authors that have sold millions and millions of copies of their books. Entrepreneurs that have made millions of dollars, and I would say that what I've learned is there is no one way. That is probably the number one takeaway, and we talked about redefining success, right? Is it a dollar figure? Is it a body? Is it a mindset? Is it a way of life?

Speaker 2: 24:18

I'm very big on customization and I was talking to Mike Ivar earlier today, a world-renowned performance consultant that works with Olympians and world-class tennis players, nba players, and I asked him about his training philosophy and he distilled it into a way that, in some instance, was about customization, like customizing it to the person, because everyone has a different body, has different skills, and I'm very much about that. When it comes to developing a lifestyle and designing your life living your life by design, not by default I heard that today by Sahel Bloom. To give credit. I don't want to take credit for anything that's not mine, ever. So I think part of it is that, when I look at what has worked for all of the over 100 guests that I've interviewed, is that their mindset is really their governor their open mindedness to take on new opportunities, being more interested in the person than trying to be interesting, having insights to share, but also being curious about what else is out there, never thinking that you know everything, and always being willing to change your mind if there is enough evidence to the contrary, but obviously still rooted in your values. So what I've learned is that there is no one way. Anyone who tries to tell you that it is like an extremist, in my view has a fixed mindset. I can't really trust someone who has a fixed way of thinking. It's not something that I align with it, just it doesn't speak to my soul and you know there's a disconnect there. So what I've learned is maintain an open mind and a growth based perspective and inspired mindset, because what's inspiring about the people isn't what they've done. It's that they never stopped. It's that they kept going when things were completely against them.

Speaker 2: 26:56

Stephen Pressfield tore up his first book and now he's a global bestselling author with millions and millions of copies sold, Dr Edith Eager. She survived the Holocaust and then she went on to go sell millions of copies of her books around the world. It, david Meltzer, made hundreds of millions, went back to zero, made it back Like. There's different ways of achieving success or suffering or enduring in these different headspaces, but the key theme is to never stop, and I've noticed that in year four of this podcast and this venture you know this year already the level I've had the best booking days that the podcast has ever experienced. In the first two weeks of this year I've had more recognition in the things that I've done on all my content in the last week that I probably had like in the last six months before. That Like, it's really been like there's a momentum shift, you know. So I would say never stop is probably the and keep going, no matter how bad it gets. This is probably the biggest takeaway for me 100%.

Speaker 1: 28:20

I love it. And people don't realize that. I think people think, ah, this happened to me, it's not meant for me, when a lot of times, those are the moments where that purpose is found or, you know, that story can actually help somebody else along the way who will go through that same struggle. Right, I would love. I love going back and talking to kids who are struggling in school because I can tell them, hey, this is what can happen on the back end. Right, the struggles we go through today are not just our struggles. It's somebody else that is going to go through it and we can battle through it, we can tell our story and it can help us. So I love that. I love that. Where can folks find you? Where can folks continue to follow your journey? I want to contribute to this momentum that inside the inspired, the wave of inspiration that is given to the nation right now. How can we add to that momentum?

Speaker 2: 29:26

I appreciate that very much. You can follow the journey on our website at insidetheinspiredcom, on all handles, effectively on all mediums. You can find us at inside the inspired. I have X. I just started doing that. That's John Z Cohen, I believe, and I think that kind of covers all the channels that the inspired and you'll find us. We're there, I love it.

Speaker 1: 29:55

I love it. Well, I can't wait for folks to hear this man you just have graceful you are right, Super graceful. The value that you added today has been invaluable, so I appreciate you.

Speaker 2: 30:12

Josh, I appreciate you your platform. It's awesome to see what you're building. I don't take the opportunity lightly. I'm excited to see what's next for you. If there's anything that I could help you with, obviously don't hesitate. Keep doing what you're doing, because I mean, you know and all the people that you've interviewed, there's always something more to learn. But I think one of the main takeaways is you know you have an awesome perspective. You ask really dense questions and meaningful questions. Don't make the same mistake of other people that just because we're interviewing all these awesome humans, our voice carries just as much weight. It's not more.

Speaker 1: 30:59

I love that. I love that and I think that's something that I've learned is giving folks, still giving folks a piece of me right Like on the way on the journey, right, can they hear me growing as the podcast grows as well? So I appreciate that. No, that's key. 100%, 100%, man. Well, I appreciate you. I know you got to run tomorrow too. No, I'm just kidding. No, I appreciate you. I appreciate you, of course, man.