Turning Worry into Winning: Dr. Eddie O'Connor's Masterclass on Performance Psychology (EP 120)

Discover how to harness the power of your worries and fears to catapult you towards success, with renowned clinical and sports psychologist Dr. Eddie O'Connor guiding the way. Unravel the complexities of worry, its evolution from a necessary survival mechanism to a sometimes paralyzing roadblock, and learn to use it constructively in preparation for life's challenges. Dr. Eddie O'Connor, a beacon of understanding in the realm of performance psychology, offers a refreshing perspective on how to navigate anxiety and critical self-talk to reach unparalleled heights of personal excellence.

Feel the raw energy as we tackle the immense value of embracing the full spectrum of emotions, with Dr. O'Connor leading a candid conversation about confronting fear to achieve your goals. Through personal stories and expert strategies, we explore the transformative power of facing discomfort head-on—a necessary step in the pursuit of growth. This episode is an empowering journey, designed to recalibrate your relationship with fear and anxiety, propelling you towards actions aligned with your aspirations, despite the trepidation that may accompany them.

To cap off this enlightening dialogue, Dr. Eddie shares his profound insights on the psychological significance of spirituality, the delicate dance with perfectionism, and the art of adding timeless value to every conversation. His personal transformation, from a relentless achiever to a proponent of unconditional love and fulfillment, provides a powerful framework for listeners seeking peace and self-improvement. This episode is laden with actionable wisdom, a guide for anyone looking to break free from personal constraints and embrace a life of imperfection and growth. Join us and let Dr. Eddie's unparalleled wisdom reshape your understanding of performance psychology.

Check Out Dr. Eddie's Course: https://dreddieoconnor.com/resources/psychology-of-performance/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

Welcome to another episode of Playing Ninja. Definitely pumped for today's episode. We have Dr Eddie O'Connor, who is a professional speaker, a clinical and sports psychologist and the author and host of the New York Times praised course the Psychology of Performance how to Be your Best Life how to be your best in life. Eddie, appreciate you coming on the show.

Speaker 2: 0:34

Yeah, looking forward to the conversation. Thank you, Josh.

Speaker 1: 0:36

Me too, eddie, obviously for me. I love speaking to clinical psychologists, sports psychologists. I'm all about the mind. I think that's where I guess life pretty much starts, because it's a powerful piece, right. But before we get into it, we'd love to learn a little bit more about you. Who is Eddie and how does he spend his time today?

Speaker 2: 0:58

Yeah. So Eddie is still trying to be an athlete or I say I am, I'm later in life, but I love CrossFit, I love football. I've been playing flag football every Sunday year round for the last 18 years, I think it is, so still stay super active and I love my job. I love the fact that I get to help people overcome their obstacles to excellence. That's my tagline. I've got a different view of what performance excellence is about. A lot of people talk about positive thinking and confidence and goal setting and all that's great, but I really think it's about overcoming the obstacles that are in the way of excellence. That's what really knocks people down. I'm a dad of four kids. I'm about to be an empty nester, so I'm looking forward to the next chapter and doubling down on career and helping the people out there when my last one goes off to college here in the fall.

Speaker 1: 1:46

I love that you can save a little bit more money. The grocery bill is going to go Right. Yeah, I can see that, dr Eddie. I can see that you are still an athlete. Your shoulders, I can see there's still the fine Things look great. But you said something interesting, right. The book, first book I read this year. I think it's a popular book in a space today. It's the first rule of mastery how to stop worrying about what people think? Right, going through some of your content, you talked about how us, as humans, have the best survival mechanism of them all, which is worry. Right, worrying about things is how we can survive. It puts us on the defense, right. Talk about that a little bit. Why was that necessary for us to have worry? But now that we're kind of, I guess, past those evolutional times, how can it be a hindrance to us from reaching our peak performance?

Speaker 2: 2:51

Yeah, man, I appreciate you doing your research and diving right into the biggest issue I have with the world and it really comes down to, I feel, for the people out there who I call it toxic positivity, where they feel guilty about the worry that they have, they're trying to control their feelings. And I don't know about you, but anytime I'm out there and if I'm mad, people tell me to calm down. Anytime I'm worried, they tell me everything's going to be okay. Every time I'm sad, they try to cheer me up.

Speaker 2: 3:17

We've got a real intolerance for three out of the basic four emotions. Four emotions happy, sad, mad and scared. Three of them suck and we are trying to force people into living into that. 25% of what it means to be human and even psychology so much of it is is being, especially in pop psychology all about like how you have to kind of change this force in your, in your thinking. So, as you bring it up, it's like one of the reasons we can't do it is because it is our survival instincts. I get this.

Speaker 2: 3:48

My son made this turtle many, many years ago and I use this as an illustration that if you're going to scare a turtle, it goes into its shell and, like I said, what we have is we've dominated the planet. So we're far beyond these other coping strategies or survival skills. Ours is tremendous that we've dominated the planet, is tremendous that we've dominated the planet. And what it is is a brain that 24 seven, consciously and unconsciously is serving our world for danger and to bring it to our attention. There's nothing wrong with that and in fact, when you care about something, whether it be your kids or your sport or what have you, if something goes wrong in that area, it's going to hurt you more. So guess what you got to worry more about it. You's going to hurt you more. So guess what you got to worry more about it. You're going to have that alarm that goes off a little bit more now.

Speaker 2: 4:37

Now I'm going to do some therapy right here for everybody listening right away. So I don't want to just normalize it, but in my first session with athletes, for example, they get a lot of relief out of knowing that, look, if you're going to go into a game, if you're going to go into your first day on the job, if you're going to go into your first day on the job, if you're going to go into an interview, if you're going to go into a fight with your husband or wife, you know you're going to be scared about what you've got to do in there. You're going to have anxiety about it, but you should, because it's preparing you and saying, hey, there's something at risk here. Let's study more before that test. Let's prepare for that interview. Let's get calm and choose the words I'm going to say to my wife.

Speaker 1: 5:10

Right.

Speaker 2: 5:11

That anxiety becomes very, very helpful when you choose to respond to it. So, instead of fighting it and being positive, I find that it's much better to lean into that anxiety and say what's it trying to tell me? How's it trying to protect?

Speaker 1: 5:28

me and then take an action response to actually get the result that you want to get. Yeah, I love that. And so I think a lot of times we, like you said, we put a negative label on those thoughts of worry and honestly, this is kind of my first time of hearing it of like, wait, it's okay to have these thoughts, it's okay Right now. What do you do with it? Right? And so when we have these thoughts, is it possible to slow them down? Is it something that we just get better to better dealing with? Do we just let them go? What's the process of, I guess, having a better relationship with these thoughts?

Speaker 2: 6:11

relationship with these thoughts. Yeah, great follow-up question. And I want to be sensitive to the people out there that if you've got panic disorder or disabling anxiety, I don't mean to just be like, oh, it's normal, don't worry about it, because I think for everybody you've had times that the more you care and the more you worry, it can be quite disabling. It's horrible feelings. So I have empathy for that. As I say it, and for some people listening, you're going to get something out of this podcast, you're going to run with it and you'll be fine, and others, you're going to realize that, oh gosh, what he's saying sounds good but it's really hard to do, and so that's why I'm employed, that's why I have clients and there's training that can be done. So I want to reassure you that, while this can be a quick fix if you find it difficult, give yourself some grace and some time to develop these skills. So what skills am I talking about? Well, the first one is creating safety.

Speaker 2: 6:54

As long as you are tuning into these thoughts and you do have to tune into that anxiety and listen to it if it's a real threat, you have to pay attention. For example, if somebody tells me there's a bear in front of me and they're like don't worry about the bear, it's fine. Reass, yeah right, I see your face and like trying to push that thought away is never going to work. In fact, you're going to freak me out even more because I'm telling you there's danger and then you're telling me to just ignore it.

Speaker 2: 7:22

So when we're trying to ignore our own anxiety and be positive and push it out, it very often makes the anxiety worse because at the very reason reason I'd said, you're probably worried about something that you care about and what you're worried about is likely to actually be a realistic possibility. If you're going to be in a sport, you might lose. If you're trying to get that job, you might not get it. And all this positivity that everything's going to work out I don't know about you, but not everything's worked out in my life. A lot of things have not. Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2: 7:55

Running around overly optimistic is very dangerous, and when you try to cover up your anxiety with reassurance in that way, it can sometimes make it worse Again, quick, tangent. I still believe that confidence can work and when you can get yourself into that space where you believe it. But either way, you have to be safe in what you're thinking. Part two after you establish that safety, it can often. Then, when you validate that I have every right to be nervous here, I'm going, you know, in this big situations coming up at work, I've got all these stressors, I've got these deadlines, I've got these pressures, I've got this business thing that I want to take off and I don't know about it. Yeah, I have every right to be anxious. So, more than it just being okay and then move on when you can actually sit with it and be like, yeah, how else should I feel? Of course I should be amped up right now. Of course I should be a little bit nervous.

Speaker 2: 8:46

Then what you find is that then your brain says thank you for listening. Now, what are we going to do? Is that? Then your brain says thank you for listening, now, what are we going to do? And that's how you move. Once you get that safety in the thoughts or that you validate your emotions. That's where you create the space to then take action. The biggest mistake my athletes do is that they try to take action before they're safe and they just try to be positive or just do what they have to do. And the anxiety and the thoughts that are intruding in your mind they're still shouting because the more you ignore it, the more they're like you. Better, listen to me, there's danger.

Speaker 1: 9:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:17

Right, you have this experience. So once you validate it and you say I understand where I'm coming from, you give yourself that self-compassion. It's not a soft skill, it's something that actually says thank you, now I feel safe. Now let's take some action to be sure this terrible thing doesn't happen. And then you refocus onto what I like to say, what's important now. If you want to win, you focus on what's important now and there is some action you can take right now to move you in the direction you want to go. If you're worried about a test, you study. If you got a game tomorrow, you get to bed early. If you've got a project that you have to do, you can spend time on the computer and do the research. Like I said, there's always something that you could do to put yourself in the best position to succeed. And then that's a double win Not only does your anxiety go down, but now you're actually preparing to get the outcome that you want.

Speaker 1: 10:03

Yeah, 100%. I think that's something that a lot of people don't do because they're not aware of it, right? And I think I heard you say something else about worry is just saying, hey, worry is this is what could happen, not what will happen. That's what your brain is telling you, right? And so you want to be able to just understand that, be aware of it and also say, hey, yeah, this is important to you, this is something that could happen, but let's go ahead and do it.

Speaker 2: 10:34

Yeah and not, but let's change the word. But to end Cause then but kind of says let's forget that. But is that inclusiveness? And that's what's important, because nothing I'm going to tell you on this podcast is going to make you feel better. That's not my goal. I'm out here to help all you are listening to be better, to act better, to play better. If you feel better, you'll feel better after you're doing better, but you got to do better before you sometimes feel better. So when we're prioritizing how we feel, like I said, one out of the four emotions that we could possibly feel is pleasant. So we have to have a tolerance and an acceptance of the other three, because they're useful. And the anxiety can be useful if you choose your response to it in the right way and so creating that space where it's more than okay, it's actually necessary, it can be useful even though it's unpleasant.

Speaker 1: 11:23

Well, I love it. I'm sitting here thinking because I've talked about this in other podcasts is that for the last three months or so I haven't had any alcohol, and what I've realized is that it is those moments where I think I I am in my thoughts a little bit more. I'm actually more aware of it, and I've realized that a lot of folks they don't understand that this anxiety is natural. It is something that us as humans do, like you said, consciouslyly, and so we use substances to kind of drown those thoughts out, right, and and try to get past it. Um, so I think this is so key to actually work on this and and actually have some, some insight on this.

Speaker 1: 12:06

Um, what about? You know, actually, you, you, you know we go through these steps, but we still feel that fear to do some type of action. Right, hey, you're at a networking event and you're looking to make some connections, but you're nervous to put your hand out to just say hello, right, you're worrying about how people might perceive you or you're worrying about stumbling up your words. Whatever the case may be, how can folks kind of feel that fear or have a better relationship with it right, to still do the action after they've showed themselves empathy, after, like, the brain is like yes, this is something I'm scared of. How can they feel that fear and just still continue to act?

Speaker 2: 12:54

Yeah, so one will be practice this. So I'm going to give you a strategy, but everybody listening, please practice, just like your sports skills. You need to be practicing. You can't just listen and what it comes down to is really deciding what's the priority, remembering that you're going to be genetically and biologically wired to run away from danger, like to protect yourself, that fight or flight response. Right, you're not going to want to stay in that. So when you're tuning into it and you give yourself that compassion, that validity, it's not going to go away. So here's the magic question I want everybody to write down Is this feeling, is this thought that you know I don't want to mess up?

Speaker 2: 13:34

Is it helping or hurting me? Is it moving me towards who I want to be or is it moving me away? And even if it's true, for example, it's a big risk I could fail, even if I like to say, for the example, I, I, sometimes I beat myself up in the gym be like man, I'm, I'm too old for this, or um, you know, it's like I'm out of shape and I'll, I'll be critical, and it doesn't even matter if it's true or not. Is that helping me or hurting me? Well, sometimes, when I do it. I beat myself up in the gym and then I feel discouraged and I don't lift as well. But, like two weeks ago I did it. I gave myself a real thorough tongue lashing about like what I was doing to pick it up and stop being a this, that and the other thing a friend of mine was like you're a sports psychologist, aren't you supposed to be more positive? I said, first of all, I'm saying this with loving kindness. Second of all, I'm saying it because I know I am a lot better than this. And then I went down and I lifted and I hit a pr. Yeah, so it's not about being positive or negative or right or wrong, should or shouldn't. It's about in that moment.

Speaker 2: 14:37

I want you to tune in and saying is what I'm thinking right now helping me be the person I want to be, or hurting me? So if you're at that networking event and you're terrified and you don't want to make a mistake and you've had some social issues before and your hands are all sweaty and you don't want to give a bad impression and your head is telling you, maybe I better just bet it back off and I'll just send them an email That'll protect you. But you're listening to your emotion and so you ask yourself is that going to get me where I want to go or not? Now, if you're drenched and you really are not fit to be presenting, then it's helpful. Then send that email instead, because you're not ready. But most of the time it might be like you know what. That's just an excuse and I'm just afraid. So I'm going to feel the feeling, acknowledge it and then I'm going to dial in to doing what I need to do, which means in a very uncomfortable way, just like you took that first ride on your bike scared, you jumped off that high diving board scared. You got on that line of scrimmage and took your first play scared. We do things when we're scared and it's never easy. But you're making the choice because you want to be this particular person, you want to achieve this particular goal, and so we I don't want to say we suffer, but we feel these feelings in service of that.

Speaker 2: 15:46

Going back to sport, analogies like if you're an athlete or a former athlete tie back into it. Are there days that you didn't want to go to practice 100%? There are days that you were forced to. You wanted to stop, but then the coach kept you going and you kept sprinting. When I work with my swimmers, and my runners in particular, I remind them when they're coming in and they're talking about the pain they're feeling and they have to get over this, and I'm like, no, you don't. It's a pain tolerant sport. If you want to run, you have to feel more pain than you've ever felt before. And that's a great metaphor to think of it, because the pain means progress. Yeah, I think a lot of us know that. Well, that's no different in your family and your spirituality, with your kids or in that job interview. Pain can mean progress as long as you're doing the things that it takes. So sometimes you just have to be willing to feel it.

Speaker 1: 16:34

Yeah, and I think you know, I think when we talk about personal development, self-development, we think about just reading the books, listening to the podcast, different things like that. But it's actually the development is leaning into the pain, right, actually going through that fear, experiencing it and realizing that, oh, it wasn't that bad, right? Or you know, hey, maybe it was bad, but I did find out what I can do better next time, Right.

Speaker 2: 17:01

Yeah, josh, thank you. Like that is, you're hitting a key, key point that people forget because we can very much. It's one of the other traps that we get. We get caught up in learning and getting more education and I'm not ready to write that book or take that job. I need to know more, know more, know more. But like we say in my success stories, community, it's a community I have of people overcoming their obstacles. One of our mantras is knowledge without action is worthless. Yeah, so I encourage them to like put down the book that I wrote or that I'm like, and just do chapter one. Do chapter one before you do chapter two. So I'm glad that you hit that point out there. There's nothing more valuable than the actions 100%.

Speaker 1: 17:39

I think you mentioned something else too, right? I remember having a psychologist on maybe a year back and she talked about you're a sports psychologist, you should be talking to yourself more positive. But she said, hey, it's a thing of resourceful self-talk and unresourceful self-talk, where something that's resourceful can be you calling yourself a wuss, like you are not performing to your standard, and a lot of times I think self-talk is very important when it comes to things like this. Right To remind yourself who you are, remind yourself who you are. I think sometimes we forget who we are and what we value, and you know our mind can really play chicks on us and make us feel like we're not capable of amazing things. Talk about that, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Yeah, you're hitting a great point, then I don't want you to want to skip over this, this opportunity, because I know, I know, when I was growing up, before I got into this, I thought all my thoughts were mine. Now, I'm not going to create multiple personalities in people's heads here, but I do want you to understand that you have a minimum of two voices. You've got you and you know who you are and what you're saying. You're the one that wants to do this great podcast and do this thing in the future and etc. Etc. You, you, cetera.

Speaker 2: 18:54

You know your voice, but then it sounds like you when you're worried or you're doubtful, or you have fears, and that's the primitive you that's. It's a part of your mind that is automatic. And I'd like you to consider that when you have these automatic thoughts the ones that you're not intending to do, the ones that you hate, the ones that you want to get rid of, in a sense they're not you anyway. They're this biological survival instinct that, remember, is biased towards looking for problems and we're never going to cure it. I can't pull a turtle out of its shell without killing it, so we can't get rid of this negative thinking, but you can also understand that it's not you doing it so you can just respond to it.

Speaker 2: 19:36

Like if you walk down the street and let's say there's this homeless guy who reeks of alcohol and he just starts yelling at you and Josh will be like your podcast sucks. It's the worst I've ever heard. You might be a little angry, you might be annoyed, but I don't think that you're going to be devastated about his review. You'll be like how did this guy even hear my podcast? He doesn't have credibility. So you will just let him keep yell and he might be annoying, but you'll just walk by and you'll hear it, but it won't affect you.

Speaker 2: 20:02

We want to start to develop that relationship with our automatic mind, knowing that it's got a negativity bias, knowing that it's trying to protect us from everything but that that protection can actually hurt us. So you don't have to fight with the homeless guy on the corner and tell him that he better respect your podcast. We don't have to fight with ourselves about that, we just have to recognize, like the other psychologist said, hey, this isn't helpful and you know what? This part of my mind doesn't have credibility, so I'm going to let it do its job in the background and safely let it fade into the background when I focus on what's important now.

Speaker 2: 20:36

So we do have a duality inside of us.

Speaker 1: 20:38

Yeah, I really hope folks understood what you just said. It's like not giving that second voice, that biological survival mechanism, credibility. It's not credible. Therefore, it should not matter the opinion of it. The thoughts that it sends you shouldn't matter, right.

Speaker 2: 21:00

Right, Josh, let me ask you are you going to let your mechanic do your taxes?

Speaker 1: 21:04

No, no way.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Are you going to let the guy doing your taxes give you a physical and tell you about your heart rate and things of that nature? No way, no. Are you going to let your doctor tell you how to play football?

Speaker 1: 21:15

No.

Speaker 2: 21:16

No, now, these people are brilliant in all their areas, but they have limited credibility, and so we have to do that with our own mind too, knowing where it's coming from and what it's saying. It's the power that we give not only to this part of our mind, but to the other people in our lives too. Like your parents sometimes they can be stressful. They've got credibility in one area, but not others. Your Parents sometimes they can be stressful. They've got credibility in one area, but not others. Your boss credibility in one area, but not others. Coaches, when they start yelling at some of my athletes about not trying hard enough meanwhile I know that they're grinding Remind my athletes that this coach understands the technical aspects of the sport, but they don't know anything about your heart. Don't give them the power to make those judgments.

Speaker 1: 21:55

It's not what's being said, it's who we're giving the power to 100%, and is there any boundaries that you put in place, right, to make sure that you have a healthy mind? I'm starting to think about hey, you know a lot of folks, you know, spend a lot of time scrolling. Maybe we spend a lot of times just not doing the things we should be doing. Is it any boundaries that you put in your day-to-day life to make sure that, hey, you have a healthy mind that is able to quiet these voices? Because I know for myself, when I'm spending more time on Instagram and social media, those voices get a little louder, right? What boundaries do you put in place for yourself?

Speaker 2: 22:37

Yeah, I've got some big ones and I'll admit to like they're hard to maintain because society just tears them down. And you know there's other stuff's attractive, like you know there's stuff that you know is not healthy on Instagram, but it's fun to watch. You don't want to miss out, you know. But there are a couple of big ones I'd say the first and the biggest one that I have is is that I'm in the Bible every day. So, just for me personally, I'm like I need, I need to know the truth and as a child of God, that's, that's my center and and unfortunately, jesus and God gets knocked away by a whole bunch of things in this culture for me.

Speaker 2: 23:12

So I have to be very, very intentional about my my spiritual practice for me. So I have to be very, very intentional about my spiritual practice. Number two is sleep. Because we are a sleep deprived society and I'll tell you some of the athletes I've worked with when I find out they're sleeping five, six hours, I don't do any mental training with them until I get them seven, eight at least, and 50% of their problems in a week or two clear up just because they're getting more sleep.

Speaker 2: 23:34

And I know that many of you out there listening, you're not getting enough, and I know you're also going to say that you feel fine and you're doing okay, but that's kind of like saying, hey, I have enough water to survive.

Speaker 2: 23:42

You're not going to thrive having the minimum amount of water or the minimum amount of food, so why would you want the minimum amount of sleep? I promise you, everybody out there, give yourself an extra 30, 60 minutes a night and you're going to write into josh and be like that was the best advice ever. My life is so much better. So the other boundary number two is protecting sleep and instagram and everything else that gets in the way of sleep, the late night scrolling and things of that nature. And I do limit my, my social media time. I actually have on my phone a time limit so that when I hit it it shuts off, and it's a because I'm not in great control of it sometimes, but I I say, okay, look, this is what I said in a rational mind. I want to limit myself here. So when the time limits go up, I'm done.

Speaker 1: 24:20

Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2: 24:22

Those are the. Those are, I say would be the three biggest as well. And also maintaining a regular physical routine and nutrition and hydration, because those are the foundational benefits to a healthy mind and body. And if you don't have the foundation, you know these other strategies aren't going to work 100%.

Speaker 1: 24:37

I love that and I love that you mentioned your spiritual walk and I've heard more and more psychologists are starting to go into that recently. I know Andrew Huberman has talked about his spiritual walk right and how it affects your mind. Why, as a psychologist, is that important? Why was that number one for you, not even just as a child of God, but even as a psychologist, your mind matters. Why is it so important? Why is it the foundational piece for you?

Speaker 2: 25:10

Well, I'm going to have to answer this as a just, as a man, as a person, because I mean, research out there says that spirituality can help, but then we're going to have to get into which spirituality and religion and all this other stuff. But I'll tell you this, for me personally, that part of the reason I became a sports psychologist is because I struggled with identity, with my identity being around my achievements, for whatever reason. Early on, I felt like I had to earn love and so I did. I, I achieved. I mean, it's part of the reason I got a PhD, which I hate to admit, but it was like. So I said, what's the hardest psychology to get into? They were like clinical psychology. Bet, that's what I'm doing, because I need to achieve, got honors, got a good job, got a raise, raise, got published, achieve, achieve, achieve.

Speaker 2: 25:50

And then I started to get tired because nothing was enough, nothing was good enough and I had to keep going and I'm on this treadmill and my life fell apart and I was like all these things that I'm chasing and trying to earn this love and earn this accomplishment, and being okay and getting past the feeling that I'm not enough, I wasn't finding it, and everything that the world had to offer was not good enough. You know, and you know there's addictions out there. People find it in different ways, you know sweets, behaviors, activities, accomplishment, like as you were just trying to fill it in all these other ways. I could go on and on and have my own therapy session here, but let's just say I hit rock bottom, life fell apart. Have my own therapy session here, but let's just say I hit rock bottom, life fell apart.

Speaker 2: 26:33

And I had been spiritual up to that point, I was catholic, but then kind of came back and said I need to figure this out and started going to a bible church. And an amazing thing, because I came in and first a friend of mine gave me this book called, uh, the land between. It was really explaining where I was at and I was like, oh, this is really good. Oh, he's a local pastor, so went to the church and it was in the resilient life series. So I'm in there and I'm crying because I'm like, oh, wow, these are really good things. I'm like, but I'm gonna really buy into this god thing. I don't like I don't know how to, how to trust him like this is kind of a scary thing and they were like well, join us for the next series, trusting God. Wow, that was pretty cool. So another six week series goes in. I'm crying every Sunday and I'm like this is just like getting overwhelming. I'm like like my whole life has got to change if I'm really going to believe this and do this Like I don't know what I'm going to do. And the pastor says join us for our next series, the new you, what? So I did another six weeks of crying and being like this and I can't wait for what God's got for me next.

Speaker 2: 27:31

And then it was some other thing that it didn't necessarily hit me right at home, but it set me on the path. It took me five more years before I'd let myself get baptized, to accept the grace. Now, what does grace mean? You can take from the spiritual aspect of your sins forgiven. But for me it was this idea that I wasn't good enough and that I could be loved unconditionally by a God who created us. And then also the idea that I wasn't in control of my life because I was a control freak and that wasn't working, because my life was crap. At that point, everything had gotten destroyed. And so the relief that I had of submitting my life to him. Now, I'm not saying that being a Christian is easy. It is not.

Speaker 1: 28:06

No, way yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:11

But am I healthier? Am I better? Am I a better father? Am I better psychologist? Am I a better human being? 100 do I have more peace in my life? And is that void that was in my, my inside, that I couldn't fill, that I was there for as long as I could remember.

Speaker 2: 28:24

It got filled and god was the only thing that filled it well I thought I knew it all, and then more things happen and I'm like, oh man, I don't know anything, and so I'm going to spend the rest of my life, and probably eternity, just trying to get closer. But that's a personal answer, not psychology, but that's my experience.

Speaker 1: 28:42

Yeah, I want to hear your perspective because it's deeper than just the evidence or just the surface. Right, it's almost something that you have to go through and feel on your own. And, like you mentioned, hey, you were rock bottom. You needed answers, right, and I think, yes, in society we look for so many things to try to fill that void Me as well.

Speaker 1: 29:08

Achievements, performance, is the only way I felt like I could receive some love, some validation, the pat on the back that I really wanted, um, and so you keep going, you keep searching and then, um, you feel lost when it doesn't fulfill you anymore. You also start to feel lost when you don't get it right. And now you, now you've given this your, your, your self-worth, your self-image, conditional love. Hey, if I'm achieving, then that's when I'll feel good about myself as well. Right, and if I have those bad days, I don't feel that hot about myself, but through the grace of God, like you mentioned, you understand that you are loved, no matter who you are, no matter what you've done. There's grace, right, yeah, and that's the big thing too.

Speaker 2: 30:02

Like I'd known God for a while, but my dad was an immigrant from Ireland and so, god bless him he worked 80 hours a week to provide for his family and so I never saw him and I had some anger about that. But you often will have a vision of God is what your earthly father was, and so I always pictured this God in the sky that I knew loved me but wasn't present as a mirror of my father. And that's what was so hard was to actually learn how over years, but learn how to have a relationship with a God that I can't talk to Like. I'm talking to you, josh, like, but it and one of the other things I would have, these moments of loneliness, and I would always talk about being alone and how hard that would be until I and this was just a couple of years ago until I realized and I said, wait a minute, that's, that's a sinful talk, because I'm like God says in the Bible that we're never alone. So I have to decide as a Christian, do I believe what he's saying? Because if I do, and as we talk about the self-talk to bring a full circle, then I can't let myself keep saying that I'm alone.

Speaker 2: 31:01

I was like I might be sitting in my apartment you know my house by myself, my kids are gone, nobody's around, and I might be alone for a whole weekend. But I'm not alone. And I can tell you that the day I swore to myself that I'd never say that again because I believe the truth that God is always with me, even when I can't hear or feel him. That's faith. I don't hear you, god, I don't feel you. Where are you? But I'm still talking to you because I know you're there listening. And there was real healing in that, as I started to adopt the truth of these scripture verses and then putting them into practice. Because it's one thing to believe it. One of the verses in the gospel is great about how it's like. Well, even the demons believe in God. That's not really helpful, but to have that relationship with God, that's what I want to continue to nurture 100%.

Speaker 1: 31:48

And what I love about your tone is, like you say, hey, you are, it's still, it's a walk and nobody's perfect and we're all not perfect. But what I love for you is that you mentioned hey, I wanted love and I wanted to be fulfilled inside. It wasn't for, hey, you know, I just was looking right. It was the most natural tone. I love how organic it is and I think a lot of people can relate to your story, um, and so I love you sharing it. I love you being vulnerable and sharing that with us.

Speaker 1: 32:22

Um, one last thing, before we closed out, I was looking at more of your content, uh, about being a perfectionist and being a healthy perfectionist and an unhealthy perfectionist, right, yeah, reason why I mentioned this is because you, obviously, in your story you mentioned, hey, you know, you've been a high achiever, you always want to achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve, and so I'm sure you probably had some unhealthy perfectionism in your days, and so I'm sure you probably had some unhealthy perfectionism in your days.

Speaker 1: 33:01

But I think in today's world, right, we look at social media and everything looks perfect, you know, and we compare our lives to so many different people on social media, but I never heard the term healthy perfectionist, right, and I think Vince Lombardi has something like hey, we're going to. He has a quote where he says hey, we're going to strive for perfection, and on the way to perfection, we'll get to excellence. Right, and so that was the first time I heard hey, somebody is actually striving for perfectionism, but it also has a negative tone. So I would love to hear from you healthy perfectionism versus unhealthy perfectionism.

Speaker 2: 33:33

Yeah, still one of my favorite topics too, because perfectionism has gotten such a bad rap because it's unachievable. But I don't know about you, but when I'm out at restaurants and when I get stuff done and I hire people, I want perfection Like I want it in other people, I think, and the research shows that if you're perfectionistic you do get better grades, you do get better results.

Speaker 2: 33:51

So let's not lie and say that you know perfectionism isn't, isn't helpful yeah at the same time, that healthy perfectionist has a different relationship than with with with mistakes, than the unhealthy perfectionist. That's really the only difference. The standards are the same. Even the unhealthy perfectionist will chase it, knowing darn well that they won't achieve it. But here's the thing when I talked to my perfectionist, if you kind of try to tell them, well, look, everybody makes mistakes and nobody could be perfect it just agitates them. It agitated me because you were insulting me, because you're in the face, telling me that the standards that I have are too low, or rather too high. You want me to lower my standards. I'm not going to do that. You talk about athletes. You can't lower your standard of trying to beat everybody. You're telling me the mistakes are okay. I call BS on that, because why do we get fired? Why do we get yelled at? Why is the coach screaming at me? Why are our partners upset? Mistakes are not okay. They haven't been since we were learning how to walk and ride bikes when we were little infants and little kids. We got all cheers with that. We'd do some scribbles on a piece of paper and our parents would put it up on the refrigerator and be really proud. But as soon as you start getting into kindergarten, you started to learn that mistakes were not okay. You start getting grades on your paper and then you start to get coaches and teachers and all of a sudden everything has to be better. I'll tell you a quick tangent.

Speaker 2: 35:24

But when I'm raising my youngest son, when he he was young, he's right in the backyard. We're playing soccer, just training him like a good sports psychologist to not care about the goals and just the process. First game he goes scores the first goal. Just starts walking away. Everybody freaks out, parents are cheering, all the kids are running up, rubbing his hair and everything else. He looked at like what the heck's going on. He didn't understand what all the excitement was about, but immediately became addicted to it. So he leans over to his friend and says let's do that again. And then what happens 10 minutes later? Beehive, soccer, kids are running around. He takes another big kick and it goes sailing out of bounds, way wide left of the goal. What do all the parents do? And he's immediately confronted with the idea of oh, I made a mistake and all the people that I love the most are disappointed. But when I do well, everybody's happy and I get a lot of attention and he was instantly transformed.

Speaker 1: 36:16

Right.

Speaker 2: 36:17

And so let's not tell perfectionists that mistakes are okay and not to worry about it and to settle. I'm telling you that it isn't. But here's the other thing you don't have to like the mistakes. In fact, I hope you never like the mistakes, but as long as you're giving good effort. We need to understand that mistakes are part of the learning process. Now, this is a little bit cliche, but we have to really emotionally dive into this, because the only way we can learn, the only way we can become more perfect, is by trying something that we haven't been able to do yet.

Speaker 2: 36:50

And again, I find it fun, funny with my younger athletes that want to perform like major league baseball players and stuff when they're in fifth grade and being like don't you think there's room to grow and learn here? Like mistakes have to be a part of the process, and if you in fact learn from every mistake, you find out why didn't that work? Why did I lose? Why did that go out of bounds? Or in your job or in your relationship? Why did she freak out that way? Why did I? You know, why is my boss mad? There's going to be something where you can learn from it and then make an adjustment and then get that much closer. And it's unpleasant, it's not fun, it is embarrassing, it is hard, but I'll tell you.

Speaker 2: 37:28

I can't tell you who I'd be right now if I learned from every mistake in my life. I I think I've learned from a lot of them, but sometimes it took me 10 years of making the same darn mistake over and over again before I got the lesson. So my friends out there listening, please, like mistakes suck. I'm with you and if you can lean into it and learn from it, have the humility to realize that you're not there yet, but you can become greater. And every time something goes wrong, learn from it. And you know what. I challenge you to make a mistake. Every day, another conversation, but if you can learn from it and make a new mistake, boy, that's going to just accelerate your growth and you're going to you're going to be well into excellence, yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:19

Yeah, 100%, it's going to give you direction right, and I think a lot of times we have to actually not be afraid to make a mistake and just and do and on the way.

Speaker 2: 38:29

Or I don't want to interrupt. You be afraid because it's a natural human feeling, and while you're afraid of making the mistake, go ahead and do it anyway.

Speaker 1: 38:38

Man, I love it. Yes, use that you know. Have the fear and continue to act right.

Speaker 2: 38:47

Yes, that's the key right there.

Speaker 1: 38:49

That's so, that's the key and, like I mentioned before, I've been, I've really I I can't tell folks how amazing it feels to have fear in acting and then, once you've done it with the fear, how um, alive, you feel right, and then, over time, you just get better at it, better at it and you've grown to capacity. And that was the next step where you need to, you know, feel that fear again. Fear will never go away. It always be new levels where you'll feel that fear.

Speaker 2: 39:24

Here's the other thing that you bring up a very good psychological point that again you're dropping dimes here. I don't want to miss them. But particularly with fear and anxiety, we know this is a basic psychological fact. When you avoid the fear and run away, you reinforce the avoidance, so the fear becomes bigger. So the other thing is that when you say that you're afraid and you lean into it, then you change the relationship that you have with that feared object or thought or feeling. It cannot stay the same If you run away from it, the fear is strengthened and you are reinforcing running away. If you lean into it, you change the relationship with what you're afraid of and you grow. There is no in-between. One or the other is going to happen. Which one do?

Speaker 1: 40:06

you want Wow, wow. Where can folks find more of your work? Dr Eddie, I know you mentioned. Hey, you had a free video that you want to share with our audience.

Speaker 2: 40:18

Yeah, I'll let you know, about that.

Speaker 2: 40:21

You've been hearing me say so, dreddieo'connorcom, d-r-e-d-d-i-e-o-c-o-n-n-o-r for spelling, and I have on there a couple of resources. One is my Mental Toughness in 60 Seconds YouTube channel link. So if you have a short attention span, if this, if my rambling was a little bit too long for you, I shrink it down to 60 seconds for quick tips. But the really the thing I would love for everybody to check out is the what to Do when Positive Thinking Doesn't Work free training video that I have for you.

Speaker 2: 40:47

If you've liked this whole idea that you don't have to have this, you'll be confident and be positive all the time. Or you've tried and it didn't work for you. I've got a really brief but effective training that I do with all my athletes on how to really develop that skill and relate differently to to the thoughts and feelings and anxiety that should be there, and I hope you get great benefit out of it. So you just jump onto dr Eddieoconnorcom. You'll get a pop-up thing there that says, hey, do you want this video? Just put in your email and you'll get it right away.

Speaker 1: 41:15

Dr Eddie, man, you know so much value that you added in this episode and this is something that folks it'll be timeless. Folks can continue to come back to this episode and really remind themselves of different things when they're in a rut. So many different components that we cover. Man, I can't appreciate you enough for having your energy set to to share and add value. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 41:47

Hey man, I had a lot of fun. I love your questions. I'm going to throw this out there to anybody who's listening. If you like something that I've said and you want to know more about it, if you've got a question, drop it into the podcast here and then maybe Josh will invite me back and we can do this again.

Speaker 1: 42:00

Oh, 100% no, I need to have you back. I would love to go into your story and how you even got to where you are today, but this is jam-packed with value 50 minutes of straight value. It felt like 20 minutes, but no, I can't wait for folks to listen to this.

Speaker 2: 42:17

Awesome. Thanks very much. Best wishes to everybody. Yes, sir.