Playing Injured
Playing Injured reminds us that life challenges us all—athletes aren’t the only ones who play hurt. Whether it’s setbacks or unexpected curveballs, our response defines who we are and how we grow. This podcast explores the universal journey of resilience and perseverance, inspiring listeners to face adversity head-on.
Ranked in the top 2.5% of podcasts globally, hosts Josh Dillingham and Mason Eddy—entrepreneurs and former collegiate athletes—deliver over 100 episodes featuring diverse voices. They explore mindsets, uncover strategies, and motivate listeners to thrive and play through anything.
Playing Injured
Owning Your Worth: Stop Shrinking Yourself for Others w/ Alan Lazaros (EP 134)
Alan Lazaros, CEO of Next Level University, joins Josh to explore the complex journey of self-acceptance and how our strengths can paradoxically create social challenges. Through personal stories and psychological insights, they uncover why success often makes life harder rather than easier.
• Understanding how other people's behavior reflects their insecurities, not your worth
• The three-step process: self-awareness, self-acceptance, then achievement
• Why success makes life more challenging, not simpler
• How our greatest strengths inevitably come with corresponding weaknesses
• Identifying what you tie your self-esteem to and accepting it as a starting point
• The paradox that being exceptional often means feeling like you don't belong
• Recognizing when you need to stop shrinking yourself to make others comfortable
Check out Next Level University podcast and website for more insights from Alan on holistic self-improvement.
Follow Playing Injured on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/playinginjured/
Welcome to another episode of Playing Injured. We have an old friend here, mr Alan Lazarus, who is the CEO of Next Level University, also co-host of Next Level University, one of the top podcasts in the world, almost at 2,000 episodes. You guys will be there by next week, right?
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:Also, too, a business coach, and you've coached in other areas, right, fitness coaching, different things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started out as a fitness coach, and then it was mindset, and then it was peak performance, and then it was business consulting, and so I've been through the coaching gauntlet, so to speak.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but at the end of the day, you're a coach, right, and so love that. And very smart guy, computer engineering degree, mba as well, right. So just a great foundation. And, like I said before, we hit record. I've followed you guys from afar, so appreciate you jumping on the show.
Speaker 2:Josh, thank you for having me. I appreciate the humility, I appreciate the gratitude, I'm grateful to be here. Man, I playfully told Josh off the mics because Josh came to. We talked about a mastermind. We used to do a live podcast every week and we'd have guests come on and we had someone named Samantha Skelly come on and she did a live breath work where it was. She put on music and she we did this breath work exercise together as a group. I think there was like 23 people there and I think there was 22 people crying, and you were one of them, Um, and I was one of them, Kevin. Kevin said no, I just have something in both my eyes, you know, Um, it was really cool. That was back in 2020.
Speaker 2:So, I, I playfully told josh before we hit record here. I said I uh, kevin, and I thought you hated us man. You just you just went away and did your thing and we're like I wonder what we did. And so it was so cool to hear that you interviewed him recently, so cool to come on here and hear that you listened to the show, and, um, I think there are some truths too. There are certain people from my past that I think maybe have an aversion to me.
Speaker 2:I'm glad to hear that you're not one of them, and I know we can go into some of that stuff, because sometimes it does have to do with rubbing someone the wrong way. Other times it has nothing to do with that and you were totally inaccurate in terms of your thinking. So I'm grateful I was wrong about you, man, and I'm grateful to be back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. You know your masterminds that you guys were having. I met you guys at a pivotal not a pivotal, a pivotal time in my life, actually. So one my first time getting fired, right. I got laid off from the first company I was working at it was a tech company here in Chicago got let go. So then around that time I was starting this podcast thing, right. I didn't even know how to get started, right, but I saw you guys. It's kind of like a North Star for me.
Speaker 1:I can't remember how we got in touch, but I think either reached out I can't remember but reached out to you guys and just wanted to get around that fire. Also, too, it was the pandemic, right, and so we were inside a lot, and then it was a lot of things going on in the world and so it was an opportunity for me to get a part of an environment that was positive, right, and I'm already a part of different. You know masterminds and mentors in my life who kind of put me on this journey to be more positive and different things like that. But I want to get around as many groups as possible and you guys really fit that for me. So the timing was perfect and then gradually, things start to open up.
Speaker 1:Hey, I get a new career, new job, I move. Life kind of happens right, you get into a relationship relationship, I break up. So a lot has happened over these last five years where, if I would have known, you guys thought I had a version to you, I would have reached out and so you know, if I could, if I could ask you. You know, and I don't know if this is something that you still take, you still struggle with or not, but how do you not take things personally, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, yeah, that's the. So I love the name of your show playing injured because I think it's a metaphor for not only athletes that are listening and how a lot of us have to push through pain, but all of us are injured in terms of past traumas.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And, uh, you know two types of people. There's people with trauma and then liars right, I'm just kidding. But even if you don't have any trauma, that's your trauma, because now you don't fit in, because you're the only one or whatever. But and again, different frequencies, intensities, densities and durations. I've been doing therapy since I was 30. I'm 36 now, even though I look 12. And my therapist, carol.
Speaker 2:I've gotten confirmation from a statistical perspective of someone who's been doing therapy for decades that my trauma is substantial and that's honestly putting it lightly. And I think on the soul level I kind of knew that. But when you say, how do you not take things personally? To bring it back to your question, I think that my past self always felt like I don't easily fit in. And as I've gotten older and I've leaned into sort of the engineer math modality of thinking very much systems, structure, principles, priorities, very calculated, playfully, more Spock-like I think that I've come to understand that I'm never going to be the fun guy at the barbecue like I used to be, and I think that in hindsight I used to drink more frequently and more often, because I think that we all live in two worlds. The first world we live in is the social world 's the barbecue, that's the wedding, that's the uh cafeteria in school yeah, what'd you say?
Speaker 2:the club yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly the social world, and that's where there's social status, there's social hierarchy. There's who's the athlete, who's the nerd, who's the hot girl, who's the who's the hot guy, who's who's the popular, who's the nerd, who's the hot girl, who's the hot guy, who's the popular, girls or guys, or whatever. That whole social world, instagram type of world. And then there's your real fucking life.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the best metaphor I have for the social world versus the real world is everyone's wedding looks beautiful, not everyone's marriage is, and some people's marriage is magnificent, and then the wedding can be a beautiful representation of that, versus the other way around, if some people have a wedding that looks gorgeous but the marriage is atrocious behind the scenes. And so I got in a car accident when I was 26. That really helped me understand. Okay, you know, went from you know, middle, popular as hell, high school, absolute loser. Just hit puberty late. You think I look young now.
Speaker 2:Imagine me at 14, right Pity dances from my sister's friends. She was a senior when I was a freshman. Stepdad left at 14. We go from boats and ski trips to I'm broke. I get free lunch at school. My mom trades in her BMW for a little Honda Civic and I don't even know how I'm going to afford college school. My mom trades in her BMW for a little Honda Civic and I don't even know how I'm going to afford college. Straight A's nerd, get all the scholarships and financial aid. Go to college, computer engineer, master's in business, and then I'm in corporate and now I'm very successful externally and at this point I had hit puberty and actually gotten some popularity and that kind of thing. But what I've come to understand now is that the social world and the real world are completely different and I think that in the past I unconsciously took being treated poorly personally yes and so to answer your original question of how do you do you take it personally?
Speaker 2:how do you not take it personally? I think it's just understanding this fundamental truth that the way in which other people are behaving is a response and reaction to, yes, maybe you, but but also their relationship with themselves. So let me give you an example. So if I have, if I'm coming up on 2000 episodes and you celebrate that, that shows me a couple things. Number one either you do feel not good enough and you have humility to celebrate others anyway, or you're actually confident and can celebrate someone else. Or there's the third narcissist who only celebrates it because I'm on your show and I know you're not that one. But when you're young you don't know the fucking difference. So you just get ripped a new one repeatedly and you don't understand boundaries and you don't understand you know your value.
Speaker 2:And so in the past this was my cycle. I was running unconsciously Be treated unjustly, because I'm definitely. I trigger other people's insecurity in their intelligence. I've always been very sort of straight, a student intellectual. Get treated unjustly because I have low self-worth. No dad, stepdad left that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:And then my trauma response to that fight flight freezer fawn. It was fawn socially, social world, fawn appease, don't get abandoned. But then, behind the scenes, it was fight, aim higher, work harder, get smarter. And when you aim higher, work harder, get smarter. Now you trigger people even more, so it gets even worse. And then my response to that is aim higher, work harder, get smarter. Now you trigger people even more, so it gets even worse. And then my response to that is aim higher, work harder, get smarter, which gets even worse. And then eventually you find self-improvement at 26, 10 years ago for me. And then your response to everything becomes what can I learn from this? How can I get better, not just externally, but internally? And then it gets even freaking worse in the social world, because now you actually are aligned, you are virtuous, you do have clear goals, and I sent this to my girlfriend yesterday.
Speaker 2:Literally I looked up on chat, gpt, the top 20 indicators that you're. You have an intimidating personality, top 30 indicators. When I was reading through this list I was going okay, clear goals, thinking logic more than emotion, but okay, so what's happening is I'm, I'm someone who apparently has all these character traits that indicate that you're intimidating people, and being tall and having a lot of muscle mass is one of them as well, which you obviously have now. But we didn't start there, right? And so everyone is responding and reacting to who you are, but not necessarily authentically and they're not even necessarily aware of it either, right? So insecure men have a really hard time being around me, and they would usually react in these sort of weird turtle up or puff up ways, and I used to take that personally, when now I just realize it's just a response to their own insecurity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, here's what I realized, though. It triggers something in you that either you can become more self-aware of yourself, right, when you take things personally, or you can see it as you not being good enough, or whatever the case may be. Right, in my early days, right, I used to feel you not being good enough, or whatever the case may be. In my early days, I used to feel, hey, not good enough, or something is wrong with me. Now what I start to do is like, oh, I'm feeling a little anxious. Why is that? Here are some thoughts that are going in my mind. Why is that? Then it's like, oh, okay, these are some, some wounds that I have.
Speaker 1:Right, like I'm telling myself stories that aren't even true, thoughts that go through my mind. It's almost like they're going through past trauma, going through past experiences, going through things that have nothing to do with today. Right, right, and my interpretation on those past situations weren't in reality either. Right, we have no idea what was going on with other people and why they treated you a certain way, and so one of the affirmations I tell myself is that other people's behavior is not tied to my worth. Right, it's something that I have to remind myself, right. It's something that to this day, you know, I still kind of have trouble with is when I come up to meet somebody. Why did they turn their head? Why did they not look me in my eye? Why did they say you know, if I have a conversation with somebody, why was that so short? Why did I, why did they do this right? These are small thoughts that I'm getting better with right, that I try to ignore, but they're still there and I have to fight it. I have to override it, right.
Speaker 2:Well, josh, let me, let me ask you this and this is, this is awesome already, yeah, so so I, I went from and this was a very fascinating social experiment for me so I went from 160 pounds skinny fat to 220 pounds in literally six months. I gained 60 pounds in six months of mostly muscle definitely not all muscle, yeah, because I was hammering McDonks, but it was mostly muscle. I was weight training every single day, blah, blah, blah. And then I ripped it up and did some fitness competitions and stuff. But to see how differently the world reacted to me with that big of a transformation made me first of all, sad, but also made me realize that the way people are reacting to you is a byproduct of what they perceive you as and their own insecurity or lack thereof. So I don't know how tall you are, but you're, you're. Yeah, how tall are you?
Speaker 1:Six four.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you're six, four, okay.
Speaker 2:African-american male for lack of better phrasing. Okay, and you're a bigger guy? Yeah, right, statistically speaking, depending on what room we're in, right, but there, if anyone is insecure on any level about their size, they will react to you in a way that is not um their true self. Yeah, so my business partner, kevin, he's only five, six. He would have his old self, would have had a hard time around you, not because there's anything wrong with you, but because he is insecure about his being short, which now he talks about openly and.
Speaker 2:I have this client who, um, I, I, I've coached a lot of different types of people over the years and there's a lot of lessons and all this. So I'm not just flexing on this, but anywhere from, like you know, a supermodel in dubai To to a person famous in the greatest boss, greater boston area, all the way to people that that are not famous at all and and that kind of thing. So it's been hundreds of people over the years. But what I've learned is that the people that you think are the most secure, like the supermodel in dubai, so to speak, is actually wildly insecure. And this other person that I'm thinking of right now I'll keep it anonymous. I've been coaching her for five plus years. She is, statistically speaking, very, very beautiful, extremely in great shape, just very 10 out of 10 type of person.
Speaker 2:People won't look at her at the gym and I said you got to understand, it's not because you're not good enough, it's actually because the guys are trying not to be disrespectful and the women are jealous and they're not consciously jealous. It's not like they're consciously going oh I'm jealous, so I'm going to look away. It's just their trauma response to whatever you are, and the trauma responses are fight, flight, freeze and fawn and people think, okay, trauma response means there's a bear in the woods, I'm going to run. No, no, no. Trauma responses are happening, both micro moments and macro traumas. Right, so what? My reaction to my car accident is a macro trauma, but when I first meet you, josh, and I shake your hand, if I'm on any level insecure about my physique or my attractiveness or my size, I'm gonna have trouble looking you in the eye and shaking your hand and you might internalize that as I'm not good enough, when in reality it's actually because you're fucking awesome and you're huge and you're good-looking and all these things.
Speaker 2:So some of the people that are the most attractive externally actually have the least self-worth internally because of this sort of human pattern that we have in the social world. So what I try to do with my clients, I try to help them win in the real world and figure out what their self-esteem is actually tied to and then win in those couple areas and then allow that to ripple out into the social world, versus trying to get validation in the social world to try to fill something in the real world, which definitely doesn't work. I've tried.
Speaker 1:It doesn't work doesn't work 100% and you're talking about even just size. This happens with a lot of different areas of life. Right, somebody realizes that you are a real quality person. Right, and they're not used to dealing with somebody who is, like you said, goal-oriented. Right, they get involved with you as a friend. Right, let's say, me and you meet each other and we start to hang out and I'm realizing that you are man, you are on it, and I'm like I'm not really on it as much as he is. Right, and I start to kind of not respond to you. Right, or I stop calling you, I stop hanging out with you, right? It's not that anything is necessarily wrong with you. It's that, hey with you. Right, it's not that anything is necessarily wrong with you. Is that?
Speaker 2:hey, you're making me feel a certain way about myself being around you is uncomfortable for me on the ego level, and it being around you is a reminder of how outside of alignment I actually am because, dude at 26, when I got in that car accident and I really found self-improvement, personal growth, personal development.
Speaker 2:That was my main sort of transformational moment. I started to say, okay, I'm gonna work on myself every day and I thought when I became a better man that I would have more friends and people would like me more and and things. But that is, I mean, comically not true. Yeah, I'm talking like it's ridiculous. How untrue that is.
Speaker 2:Like I, you know I track metrics and habits and priorities, but it's the the better I I've become as a man physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually the actually more people seek you out but don't really want to be around you. It's, it's so interesting. You feel more sought after in terms of your uh, perception and social status and value, but you actually feel like people don't actually like being around you but that at the same time, they're also fighting to be a part of your life. It's such a fascinating thing and I think that anyone who's ever dealt with any level of fame, fame and ke Kevin and I are not famous by any means, but we have experienced enough of it to realize that it's a lot of. It is the social statusy stuff, and in sports I don't know how high you went in it, but these athletes, your value is so predicated on your, your contribution to the team winning and anything outside of that lane.
Speaker 2:You're pretty much not of value and and that's just not only economically true, but it's also true in the social status world and and we all wish that wasn't the case because when we our head hits the bed at night, you need to feel of value as a man or as a woman or whatever you identify as, and if you don't have that unconditional love in your real life, oh, you are so fucked and and and I I didn't realize till my 30s how much I didn't actually have that. And a past girlfriend, for example, wanted to date the fitness model but didn't, didn't love because I was a fitness model. 43 photo shoots and fitness competitions, you know, got stomped at two of them. Now, well, I placed every time but I won one of the three. But I was definitely the like fitness model, abercrombie model looking, you know, definitely not, as I was way more in shape back then. Let's just say that, unfortunately, the only thing. That's gotten worse, you know.
Speaker 2:But I remember being in a relationship with this woman and I remember thinking like you don't love me, like you love the idea of me, you want to be with the hot guy on Instagram who's got 30,000 followers and who is a model and who's ripped a pack and who who is an achiever, but you don't actually want to date that dude because that dude has to get up at 5 am and go to the gym like you want the shiny shit and but you don't want what comes with that.
Speaker 2:And, by the way, you don't get the fitness model eight pack guy without also the workouts, the foam rolling, the sleep, hydration, nutrition, mobility, breathwork supplementation, like you have have. You have to want everything underneath that iceberg too, and if you can't fall in love with beneath that iceberg, you don't get to be with someone of that caliber. And what I've come to understand is that nobody wants to be around someone who focuses on sleep, hydration, nutrition, training, mobility, breathwork, supplementation, metrics, priorities, habits, structure, calendar, like seriously, it's just not what most people want to do. Everyone wants to be around Michael Phelps, but no one wants to get in the fucking pool.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's so hard for someone like him, who is like why does everyone love me and also not want to be around me? It's such a fascinating thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a very fascinating thing and you have to do the inner work, inner personal development, to understand human nature right and understand that it's not personal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it feels.
Speaker 1:It's tough.
Speaker 2:It does feel personal right.
Speaker 1:But you also mentioned something very key, key. You said the, the internal work right, the self-esteem um. What do you do to to grow that, to um be a little bit more in tune with your self-esteem and how you feel about yourself yourself? So the?
Speaker 2:oh sorry, you have powerful pauses so I didn't know if you were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sorry don't be sorry.
Speaker 2:Powerful pauses are good man it's good, it's real good.
Speaker 2:So I used to believe I'm also so excited, like my excitement is sometimes come off, it comes off too much. Uh, I gotta channel my passion, channel it, calm down, it's all gonna be fine. I've been waiting for years to be asked this question. No, uh, so the self-esteem piece. I used to believe that you could change. So when I first found self-improvement I was like, okay, this is it all the stuff people hate about me. I'm gonna change it. And then you change it and it gets worse and people don't even like you even more, right, uh. And you realize, okay, I can't change who I am, but what I can do is uncover who I actually am and then grow from that place.
Speaker 2:So I think a lot of people like myself start in self-improvement and personal growth and personal development going okay, well, I don't like that. I'm tall and lanky, so I'm gonna get jacked. And then you start working on yourself and you do fitness and all that stuff. And then it's well, I'm a computer engineer and I'm a math thinker and everything is structure and equations for me. But I'm going to try to be more social, I'm going to be more extroverted, right? And then you go out and you try to change who you are and it's, it's atrocious. It's terrible, yeah, because you're not fulfilled, because you're never going to be fulfilled when you're not in alignment with who you actually are. So I don't do any of that anymore.
Speaker 2:What I now do with clients is they come to me and they say, okay, here's where I am, I want to try to be this person and achieve this thing, and I used to try to help them do that, and then it would never work because they'd go on that journey. The process was never aligned with who they really are. They have to mitigate every weakness and, basically, and avoid any strength and every strength comes with a weakness, by the way, and it was like trying to get kevin to beat lebron james at basketball. It's, it's, it's impossible. You can't. You're not naturally gifted in that area.
Speaker 2:So what we do, I think all of us have a really negative relationship with our weaknesses and our gifts, and every gift comes with a weakness. So I'll give you one of my gifts. One of my gifts is math. I adore. I think in exponentials, I think in equations. I don't think I've ever gotten below an A in math in my entire life. With minimal effort, I mean, I could party all night still, you know, show up just to the tests and get an A. And I'm not saying that to brag, I'm saying this because it comes with a massive weakness.
Speaker 2:So when it comes to goals and metrics and reverse engineering, finish lines and helping people measure the right things and achieve their goals very, very good finance, easy science, technology, engineering, mathematics, business and finance all strengths they come naturally. Guess what doesn't relationships? That dude is not gonna be good at relationships because he doesn't understand that no one thinks like he does statistically. So if you're at the very far end of any statistical bell curve, you have an opportunity to do something very unique and very special, but it destroys your relationships. Why? Because if you're naturally awesome at football and you play against me and we're friends, if I don't feel good enough and I'm insecure, I'm going to treat you poorly, unless you're on my team, and that's where all this stuff that we already talked about comes in. So what do we do? We hide our strengths to fit in.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then we also hide our weaknesses to fit in. And, by the way, the weaknesses come as a result of the strengths. So for me, high self-belief, math modality of thinking, high levels of certainty, great external achievement. I have to hide all that, pretend I'm humble. Now I'm not saying I'm not humble, but I have to pretend to be less certain than I actually am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to shrink yourself.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent to fit in Make other people feel, yeah, in the world of the insecure, the truly secure person has to shrink, otherwise they don't belong, and they get rocks thrown at them and all that kind of stuff. So we're all afraid of failure and success. Success is if I'm too successful, I'm going to get ostracized from my peers, and or they're going to start treating me weird. If I get to failure, I'll be ostracized from the group, because no one wants to play basketball with the worst player either, right, so no one wants to be Michael Jordan, but no one wants to be a bench player either.
Speaker 2:So and again, insert sports metaphor here sports podcast, great. The truth is, though, is we're all in this little box between floor and ceiling of success and failure, so it all comes down to who you associate with, which is why our reference group determines such a huge there have been so many studies on this. Our reference group determines such a huge amount of our success because it's almost like all of us. If our number one need is belonging, social belonging, need is belonging, social belonging, and all your peers make 60 grand a year and you start making 160, all of a sudden things get weird and you don't understand what's happening.
Speaker 2:They're not happy. Some of them are, but some of them aren't. Some of them are pretending to be the whole thing, unconsciously, because I'd rather fit in and be mediocre than actually be truly great. And a good metaphor for this is to say and maybe they do, I'm not sure, I don't know them, but we all know the higher and this has been really hard for me the higher that Kevin and I climb for lack of better phrasing the harder it is for us to have meaningful relationships with people we went to high school with, and that's been really hard for me.
Speaker 2:It's been harder on me than him because I don't think he cares as much, but his, his core wound is different than mine. Um, but I've forgotten the original question because I've gotten off track. Do you remember what it was?
Speaker 1:I can't remember. I know you shared a lot of oh self-esteem. We talked about self-esteem how to grow yourself awesome okay.
Speaker 2:So inside out versus outside in. If you're playing outside in, you're in trouble. Inside out versus outside in. So the old me used to say, okay, you're here, you want to be here, you can achieve this. No, no, I don't do that anymore. Everything has to start from high self-awareness. So I coach 26 individuals right now business coach, but I did fitness and mindset and peak performance a lot of stuff. So now what we do first is self-awareness. So step one is self-awareness. Step two is self-acceptance. Step three now it's you can go achieve. I think one of the reasons a lot of people don't achieve their goals and you can look this up the statistics on who has clear written goals that they actually achieve, whether it's New Year's resolutions or whatever it's very low, super low.
Speaker 2:Most people are stumbling upon results and then trying to hold on to it. Seriously, when it comes to premeditated goals that you write down in advance, a lot of times those goals are predicated on low self-awareness. So, legs though, I mean, I can run like the wind so if I want, but what do I care about? I don't care about being fast, I've always already fast. Long legs, long distance running, no problem. What do I want? To be jacked.
Speaker 2:So we all want to be different than we are exactly see, that's the problem, whereas I could just go all in on what I'm already naturally gifted at and then improve from that place. But if I do that, I get all of the upsides of success but all of the social downsides that come with that.
Speaker 2:And if my real goal is to belong, I'm not going to amplify my statistical advantage yeah right, and so as I've grown older and older and older, I've had to heal and to get back to self-esteem. I realized this. All of us myself, you, my business partner Kev, my girlfriend Amelia we just talked about this earlier today we tie our self-esteem unconsciously to a couple things. I did this with a client earlier. His name is Bradley. I tie my self-esteem to three things and I won't share his, but I used it as an example and we got clear on his.
Speaker 2:Number one is fitness being a freak athlete. So for me, I was pre-pubescent, didn't hit puberty till senior year of high school, definitely a nerd, overlooked by every girl, not attractive. Didn't become a man until way later. I care so deeply about being big and strong because I always felt lanky and weak and I got bullied a lot, okay. So number one tie my self-esteem to my athleticism.
Speaker 2:Number two is my relationship with emilia. That's where my belonging is. I belong with her to a deep, deep, deep level. It's the fucking best. I met her five years ago. It's the best relationship I've ever been in, by far Greatest gift of my life and, quite frankly, I wouldn't be here if I didn't have that at the core, because I would be still chasing for belonging and external validation. I get so much belonging from my relationship that it allows me to go flourish and sort of say goodbye to a lot of relationships that were holding me back. All right. The third one is my body of work. This is a little bit weird, but I can't stand when I do poor work. So if this episode is not something that I feel like I gave my all to make it as valuable as possible, I will be unfulfilled afterwards. So those are the three things that I tie my self-esteem to.
Speaker 2:Kevin wouldn't mind me sharing his. I think his are a lot more relatable, quite frankly. Number one car he drives. Number two money in the bank account. Number three dude wants to be jacked and he'll admit this to all of you. I think he's just more honest than most people. I think most people do tie self-esteem to those three things, but they're not honest about it.
Speaker 2:And one of the ironies is when Kev was a kid, that's all he really wanted. He wanted to have enough money to drive his dream car. He wanted to have money in the bank because he and his upbringing didn't have any and, uh, he wanted to be jacked, which he was. He worked really hard in fitness his whole life because he felt short and insignificant. So when he was bigger, he felt better about himself.
Speaker 2:And what I've come to understand, the old me would have said well, you got to be careful tying your self-esteem to those three things. And there's truth to that, because as you mature, you really need to hopefully be more wholesome than just those three things. But what I've come to realize is that once those three things are actually winning, from Kevin's own internal perspective, that's when he's a better husband, that's when he's a better business partner. When we don't have money in the bank, dude, he is like, so scarce. I'm not Whether we have five or 25 or 55 cash on hand. I'm the same-ish person.
Speaker 2:But ifelia and I aren't good. I would have canned this podcast. Yeah, yeah, I can't go serve when we're not good. So, and the reason why is because my core wound is unlovable and for him it's defective, not good enough. He never thought he'd be successful. I never thought I'd be successful in a relationship, so so of course, we tie our well-being to the thing that we thought we'd never have. Success for me comes fairly easy in terms of external success, even though you're not allowed to say that, but relationships never came easy. So for me I tie a lot of self-esteem and it's all linked to survival from an evolutionary perspective.
Speaker 1:Talk about that so needs, right. It sounds like you're saying that first of all, you need to be self-aware. Like what makes you feel good, right, even if it is external right, accept it. Don't try to be somebody else. Don't try to be somebody else. Don't try to be like others. Right, accept yourself of who you are. Right. But also, too, when you said, like these needs that we have, um, that's when I start to feel out of whack. Is, wait, I don't have food in the fridge. It's like when I under, when I start to feel a little bit out of whack, when I start to feel like I don't have things together, it's telltale signs that I'm kind of neglecting the small needs that I have. Right. But also, too, that bleeds into the needs of, like you said, of belonging belonging, love, um, you know, fitness, all of these areas that help me thrive, right? Um, is that similar for everybody, right? Or what's your thoughts there?
Speaker 2:I think that when, when kevin, for example, just using him as an example, my business partner, when he and some of your listeners will know him too, cause he's been on the show and he doesn't mind me, the reason I'm using him is because your listeners know him, you know him and he doesn't mind me sharing these things Right, so you always got to be careful, as a public figure, what you talk about. Um, but I have permission in advance to talk about all this, so it's good. But Kevin, for example, his need for he wants to be in great shape, he wants to have money in the bank account and he wants to drive a nice car. As long as those three things are good, he feels like he can be his best self. What's deeper than that are the needs you're talking about. It's not actually about the car or the money or the body it's about what his unconscious mind has connected.
Speaker 2:Those two and those are the base needs. The base needs that I think we're all going for are growth contra growth, impact fulfillment, really money, because, um, in the past it would be bartering, it would be, you know, assets, things like that, but now it really. I mean it really is money, currency, whatever your currency is, um, and then belonging. Belonging those are the ones we really need. Yeah, and kevin's always felt like he belongs and and I'm at the fear of sounding like a pretentious person I'm going to share this because I do believe it will help people and that is my sincere goal. If you are average in something, it's easy to belong, because most people are average.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Right Anything that you are not like. If you're way above average or way below average, you usually don't feel like you belong, because you actually don't. You actually don't and that's why you have to go. So, for example, the percentage of people that are in the NFL is extremely, extremely, extremely low, okay. And then the percentage of people that actually play consistently and start very, very low, okay. So if you play in the NFL, you belong with other people who play in the NFL and understand what that's like and you have similar challenges. Your life isn't easy, by the way, because people think biggest lie of all time, in my honest opinion, is that success makes life easier. No, no, no. Success makes life harder. You don't get to the NFL and go oh, nice, easier your life. No, no, no. Now you have to play against the best in the world.
Speaker 2:And if you get injured, you're gone right or whatever it is. And now you're competing at a level that requires more of you, not less of you, understanding, I think, ever. Unless it's generational wealth. That's a snowball that was built and created by someone prior to you and your family. When you reach a new level of success, it means life is harder. So it's great, right? 2000 episodes, 16 person team, 175 countries, 1.17 million listens. That all sounds awesome, and it and it is, and that's the goal. But my life is not easier. Kevin and I's life is actually harder now. We have more responsibility, more to lose, more to sustain, more to grow right. How do you grow from that place, right? So I think that that's a big breakthrough as well. But ultimately, it's all these needs that are unconscious, and I think we're all wired in a certain way to value our needs in a different syntax. So my need for belonging is higher than Kevin's, because I didn't belong more than Kevin.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:His need for money is higher than mine because I feel like making money comes naturally to me. So, of course, right, and that's why you have to sort of heal. But also understand this about yourself. And the paradox is, if you try to change what you tie your self-esteem to without actually meeting it first, you probably won't be able to have the abundance to actually change it. So, yes, me at 36 understands all this intellectually, but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly like oh yeah, it doesn't bother me at all that my friends talk to Kev more than me and comment on his stuff but don't like my stuff. The truth is it bothers me and I use it to motivate me with the chip on my shoulder a little bit, but I also know that I can't let it run me. But I also have to know that it it definitely affects me. Um cause, that's a need.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's so deep because I, I obviously for me it's very similar fitness, uh, money, and I think belonging is very huge for me.
Speaker 2:Um sounds like that's the most important for you.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is right. Belonging and also being seen as somebody that people admire, right, admiration, right, which is something that is out of my control, right, even though I feel like I can control it. So that's where the fitness comes in. That's where making sure everything is in order and polished comes in right. That's when I you know, you know when I read a lot of books and be and make sure the way I think and express myself and I communicate is polished, is because it is a admiration piece.
Speaker 2:Do you think that it felt disrespected when you were younger and you feel like people maybe don't respect you so you're. So kevin and I had this discussion a while back. He, he, I. I think that I I had a big breakthrough when I realized that I was actually jealous of Kevin. I didn't know this consciously, but I was like everybody loves that dude, like everybody likes him. We would give a speech and I'm convinced my speech was more valuable and everyone would hate me and love him and he. So we realized something he is jealous of how much I'm respected and sometimes how much I'm admired. Yeah, I'm jealous of how much everyone just likes this dude. Everyone likes him. I don't feel like a easily likable, the regular, relatable guy that's humble, that everybody can relate to, and you're trying to be more like me to get admiration for people to look up to you.
Speaker 2:And here I am trying to be normal when I'm not, to try to be relatable. When I'm not to try to be relatable when I'm not, it's like dude. What if we just leaned into who we actually are Because I'm not naturally relatable? Right, no one does. No one tracks 13 metrics and 19 habits a day. Right, I mean, that's not a normal thing. Everyone in my team does. Everyone in my coaching program does Not that many, but tracks metrics and habits. So that's what I whatever you are be a good one, I think is the place to end here, which is again goes back to self-awareness first, self-acceptance. That's the hard part.
Speaker 2:You got to accept that you're not naturally gifted. If you're not, you got to accept that you are gifted. If you are, you're not allowed to say it. By the way, I'm risking ostracization by saying these things, but I'm trying to help.
Speaker 2:But, like I was the guy who was kind of gifted intellectually, not athletically- not athletically, intellectually for sure, and while you're not allowed to say that out loud, it is the truth. And the goals that I have are not going to work for everybody, and I think that everyone needs to understand their own giftedness, or lack thereof, and then work from that honest place. And if you do, I mean that's when you create fulfillment 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1:Well, Alan man, a lot of great value that we share in this combo. We could keep going, but definitely want to be conscious of time. Where can people find you? Where can people continue to follow your journey?
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me, josh. Seriously, this was awesome. It's cool to do this again five years later. I guess now, or four or five years later.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And keep doing what you're doing. For sure, thank you for having me and thank you for doing what you're doing in the world. Seriously, I think the world needs more of this. I do, and of course I'm biased, but I mean, if we all work on self-improvement, self-awareness, self-acceptance, the world becomes a better place because we stop hurting each other constantly. Right, we all sweep our own porch, the whole world will be clean, kind of thing. So, yeah, I'm a naive optimist, although the naive is being ripped out of me for sure. Okay, where can people find me? Next level universe calm.
Speaker 2:We have a podcast called Next Level University. Next Level you, not Next Level Me. Next Level you pun intended unique version of yourself. It's a place you go to help reach your potential 1% improvement every single day, from anywhere on the planet, completely free in your pocket. Holistic self-improvement, heart-driven, but no BS. Holistic self-improvement for dream chasers, and it really is for anyone who sincerely wants to chase their dreams. Maybe your dream is to have a villa on the beach. Maybe your dream is to have a great relationship. Maybe your dream is to be in great shape. Maybe your dream is to build a billion dollar business. Whatever it is, whatever that dream is whatever that vision is. Next Level University is there to help you become the version of yourself that actually can attract and sustain and earn. Earn that success. And the keyword is earn there, because kevin and I are tryhards who came from very little and we don't believe in the big rewards for minimal effort shit yeah, it doesn't, doesn't happen though it doesn't happen, you got to earn it.
Speaker 1:I've tried the shortcuts. I've tried it. It doesn't work.
Speaker 2:So let me be the example.
Speaker 1:Let me be the example, alan. We appreciate you and man can't wait to see the continued success.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Josh. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Love it.
