Owning Your Worth: Stop Shrinking Yourself for Others w/ Alan Lazaros (EP 134)

Alan Lazaros, CEO of Next Level University, joins Josh to explore the complex journey of self-acceptance and how our strengths can paradoxically create social challenges. Through personal stories and psychological insights, they uncover why success often makes life harder rather than easier.

• Understanding how other people's behavior reflects their insecurities, not your worth
• The three-step process: self-awareness, self-acceptance, then achievement
• Why success makes life more challenging, not simpler
• How our greatest strengths inevitably come with corresponding weaknesses
• Identifying what you tie your self-esteem to and accepting it as a starting point
• The paradox that being exceptional often means feeling like you don't belong
• Recognizing when you need to stop shrinking yourself to make others comfortable

Check out Next Level University podcast and website for more insights from Alan on holistic self-improvement.

Transcript

Introduction to Alan Lazarus

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to another episode of Playing Injured . We have an old friend here , mr Alan Lazarus , who is the CEO of Next Level University , also co-host of Next Level University , one of the top podcasts in the world , almost at 2,000 episodes . You guys will be there by next week , right ?

Speaker 2 0:19

Correct .

Speaker 1 0:20

Also , too , a business coach , and you've coached in other areas , right , fitness coaching , different things like that .

Speaker 2 0:29

Yeah , I started out as a fitness coach , and then it was mindset , and then it was peak performance , and then it was business consulting , and so I've been through the coaching gauntlet , so to speak .

Speaker 1 0:40

Yeah , but at the end of the day , you're a coach , right , and so love that . And very smart guy , computer engineering degree , mba as well , right . So just a great foundation . And , like I said before , we hit record . I've followed you guys from afar , so appreciate you jumping on the show .

Speaker 2 1:03

Josh , thank you for having me . I appreciate the humility , I appreciate the gratitude , I'm grateful to be here . Man , I playfully told Josh off the mics because Josh came to . We talked about a mastermind . We used to do a live podcast every week and we'd have guests come on and we had someone named Samantha Skelly come on and she did a live breath work where it was . She put on music and she we did this breath work exercise together as a group . I think there was like 23 people there and I think there was 22 people crying , and you were one of them , Um , and I was one of them , Kevin . Kevin said no , I just have something in both my eyes , you know , Um , it was really cool . That was back in 2020 .

Speaker 2 1:42

So , I , I playfully told josh before we hit record here . I said I uh , kevin , and I thought you hated us man . You just you just went away and did your thing and we're like I wonder what we did . And so it was so cool to hear that you interviewed him recently , so cool to come on here and hear that you listened to the show , and , um , I think there are some truths too . There are certain people from my past that I think maybe have an aversion to me .

Speaker 2 2:04

I'm glad to hear that you're not one of them , and I know we can go into some of that stuff , because sometimes it does have to do with rubbing someone the wrong way . Other times it has nothing to do with that and you were totally inaccurate in terms of your thinking . So I'm grateful I was wrong about you , man , and I'm grateful to be back .

Speaker 1 2:20

Yeah , 100% . You know your masterminds that you guys were having . I met you guys at a pivotal not a pivotal , a pivotal time in my life , actually . So one my first time getting fired , right . I got laid off from the first company I was working at it was a tech company here in Chicago got let go . So then around that time I was starting this podcast thing , right . I didn't even know how to get started , right , but I saw you guys . It's kind of like a North Star for me .

Speaker 1 2:59

I can't remember how we got in touch , but I think either reached out I can't remember but reached out to you guys and just wanted to get around that fire . Also , too , it was the pandemic , right , and so we were inside a lot , and then it was a lot of things going on in the world and so it was an opportunity for me to get a part of an environment that was positive , right , and I'm already a part of different . You know masterminds and mentors in my life who kind of put me on this journey to be more positive and different things like that . But I want to get around as many groups as possible and you guys really fit that for me . So the timing was perfect and then gradually , things start to open up .

Speaker 1 3:47

Hey , I get a new career , new job , I move . Life kind of happens right , you get into a relationship relationship , I break up . So a lot has happened over these last five years where , if I would have known , you guys thought I had a version to you , I would have reached out and so you know , if I could , if I could ask you . You know , and I don't know if this is something that you still take , you still struggle with or not , but how do you not take things personally , right ?

Speaker 2 4:21

Yeah , man , yeah , that's the . So I love the name of your show playing injured because I think it's a metaphor for not only athletes that are listening and how a lot of us have to push through pain , but all of us are injured in terms of past traumas .

Speaker 1 4:40

Yes .

Speaker 2 4:41

And , uh , you know two types of people . There's people with trauma and then liars right , I'm just kidding . But even if you don't have any trauma , that's your trauma , because now you don't fit in , because you're the only one or whatever

Trauma and Taking Things Personally

Speaker 2 4:53

. But and again , different frequencies , intensities , densities and durations . I've been doing therapy since I was 30 . I'm 36 now , even though I look 12 . And my therapist , carol .

Speaker 2 5:07

I've gotten confirmation from a statistical perspective of someone who's been doing therapy for decades that my trauma is substantial and that's honestly putting it lightly . And I think on the soul level I kind of knew that . But when you say , how do you not take things personally ? To bring it back to your question , I think that my past self always felt like I don't easily fit in . And as I've gotten older and I've leaned into sort of the engineer math modality of thinking very much systems , structure , principles , priorities , very calculated , playfully , more Spock-like I think that I've come to understand that I'm never going to be the fun guy at the barbecue like I used to be , and I think that in hindsight I used to drink more frequently and more often , because I think that we all live in two worlds . The first world we live in is the social world 's the barbecue , that's the wedding , that's the uh cafeteria in school yeah , what'd you say ?

Speaker 2 6:11

the club yeah yeah , yeah , yeah , exactly the social world , and that's where there's social status , there's social hierarchy . There's who's the athlete , who's the nerd , who's the hot girl , who's the who's the hot guy , who's who's the popular , who's the nerd , who's the hot girl , who's the hot guy , who's the popular , girls or guys , or whatever . That whole social world , instagram type of world . And then there's your real fucking life .

Speaker 1 6:35

Yeah .

Speaker 2 6:36

And the best metaphor I have for the social world versus the real world is everyone's wedding looks beautiful , not everyone's marriage is , and some people's marriage is magnificent , and then the wedding can be a beautiful representation of that , versus the other way around , if some people have a wedding that looks gorgeous but the marriage is atrocious behind the scenes . And so I got in a car accident when I was 26 . That really helped me understand . Okay , you know , went from you know , middle , popular as hell , high school , absolute loser . Just hit puberty late . You think I look young now .

Speaker 2 7:09

Imagine me at 14 , right Pity dances from my sister's friends . She was a senior when I was a freshman . Stepdad left at 14 . We go from boats and ski trips to I'm broke . I get free lunch at school . My mom trades in her BMW for a little Honda Civic and I don't even know how I'm going to afford college school . My mom trades in her BMW for a little Honda Civic and I don't even know how I'm going to afford college . Straight A's nerd , get all the scholarships and financial aid . Go to college , computer engineer , master's in business , and then I'm in corporate and now I'm very successful externally and at this point I had hit puberty and actually gotten some popularity and that kind of thing . But what I've come to understand now is that the social world and the real world are completely different and I think that in the past I unconsciously took being treated poorly personally yes and so to answer your original question of how do you do you take it personally ?

Speaker 2 7:55

how do you not take it personally ? I think it's just understanding this fundamental truth that the way in which other people are behaving is a response and reaction to , yes , maybe you , but but also their relationship with themselves . So let me give you an example . So if I have , if I'm coming up on 2000 episodes and you celebrate that , that shows me a couple things . Number one either you do feel not good enough and you have humility to celebrate others anyway , or you're actually confident and can celebrate someone else . Or there's the third narcissist who only celebrates it because I'm on your show and I know you're not that one . But when you're young you don't know the fucking difference . So you just get ripped a new one repeatedly and you don't understand boundaries and you don't understand you know your value .

Speaker 2 8:47

And so in the past this was my cycle . I was running unconsciously Be treated unjustly , because I'm definitely . I trigger other people's insecurity in their intelligence . I've always been very sort of straight , a student intellectual . Get treated unjustly because I have low self-worth . No dad , stepdad left that kind of thing .

Speaker 2 9:08

And then my trauma response to that fight flight freezer fawn . It was fawn socially , social world , fawn appease , don't get abandoned . But then , behind the scenes , it was fight , aim higher , work harder , get smarter . And when you aim higher , work harder , get smarter . Now you trigger people even more , so it gets even worse . And then my response to that is aim higher , work harder , get smarter . Now you trigger people even more , so it gets even worse . And then my response to that is aim higher , work harder , get smarter , which gets even worse . And then eventually you find self-improvement at 26 , 10 years ago for me . And then your response to everything becomes what can I learn from this ? How can I get better , not just externally , but internally ? And then it gets even freaking worse in the social world , because now you actually are aligned , you are virtuous , you do have clear goals , and I sent this to my girlfriend yesterday .

Speaker 2 9:51

Literally I looked up on chat , gpt , the top 20 indicators that you're . You have an intimidating personality , top 30 indicators . When I was reading through this list I was going okay , clear goals , thinking logic more than emotion , but okay , so what's happening is I'm , I'm someone who apparently has all these character traits that indicate that you're intimidating people , and being tall and having a lot of muscle mass is one of them as well , which you obviously have now . But we didn't start there , right ? And so everyone is responding and reacting to who you are , but not necessarily authentically and they're not even necessarily aware of it either , right ? So insecure men have a really hard time being around me , and they would usually react in these sort of weird turtle up or puff up ways , and I used to take that personally , when now I just realize it's just a response to their own insecurity .

Speaker 1 10:57

Yeah , here's what I realized , though . It triggers something in you that either you can become more self-aware of yourself , right , when you take things personally , or you can see it as you not being good enough , or whatever the case may be . Right , in my early days , right , I used to feel you not being good enough , or whatever the case may be . In my early days , I used to feel , hey , not good enough , or something is wrong with me . Now what I start to do is like , oh , I'm feeling a little anxious . Why is that ? Here are some thoughts that are going in my mind . Why is that ? Then it's like , oh , okay , these are some , some wounds that I have .

Speaker 1 11:41

Right , like I'm telling myself stories that aren't even true , thoughts that go through my mind . It's almost like they're going through past trauma , going through past experiences , going through things that have nothing to do with today . Right , right , and my interpretation on those past situations weren't in reality either . Right , we have no idea what was going on with other people and why they treated you a certain way , and so one of the affirmations I tell myself is that other people's behavior is not tied to my worth . Right , it's something that I have to remind myself , right . It's something that to this day , you know , I still kind of have trouble with is

Physical Transformation and Social Reactions

Speaker 1 12:25

when I come up to meet somebody . Why did they turn their head ? Why did they not look me in my eye ? Why did they say you know , if I have a conversation with somebody , why was that so short ? Why did I , why did they do this right ? These are small thoughts that I'm getting better with right , that I try to ignore , but they're still there and I have to fight it . I have to override it , right .

Speaker 2 12:47

Well , josh , let me , let me ask you this and this is , this is awesome already , yeah , so so I , I went from and this was a very fascinating social experiment for me so I went from 160 pounds skinny fat to 220 pounds in literally six months . I gained 60 pounds in six months of mostly muscle definitely not all muscle , yeah , because I was hammering McDonks , but it was mostly muscle . I was weight training every single day , blah , blah , blah . And then I ripped it up and did some fitness competitions and stuff . But to see how differently the world reacted to me with that big of a transformation made me first of all , sad , but also made me realize that the way people are reacting to you is a byproduct of what they perceive you as and their own insecurity or lack thereof . So I don't know how tall you are , but you're , you're . Yeah , how tall are you ?

Speaker 1 13:45

Six four .

Speaker 2 13:46

Okay , so you're six , four , okay .

Speaker 2 13:49

African-american male for lack of better phrasing . Okay , and you're a bigger guy ? Yeah , right , statistically speaking , depending on what room we're in , right , but there , if anyone is insecure on any level about their size , they will react to you in a way that is not um their true self . Yeah , so my business partner , kevin , he's only five , six . He would have his old self , would have had a hard time around you , not because there's anything wrong with you , but because he is insecure about his being short , which now he talks about openly and .

Speaker 2 14:23

I have this client who , um , I , I , I've coached a lot of different types of people over the years and there's a lot of lessons and all this . So I'm not just flexing on this , but anywhere from , like you know , a supermodel in dubai To to a person famous in the greatest boss , greater boston area , all the way to people that that are not famous at all and and that kind of thing . So it's been hundreds of people over the years . But what I've learned is that the people that you think are the most secure , like the supermodel in dubai , so to speak , is actually wildly insecure . And this other person that I'm thinking of right now I'll keep it anonymous . I've been coaching her for five plus years . She is , statistically speaking , very , very beautiful , extremely in great shape , just very 10 out of 10 type of person .

Speaker 2 15:16

People won't look at her at the gym and I said you got to understand , it's not because you're not good enough , it's actually because the guys are trying not to be disrespectful and the women are jealous and they're not consciously jealous . It's not like they're consciously going oh I'm jealous , so I'm going to look away . It's just their trauma response to whatever you are , and the trauma responses are fight , flight , freeze and fawn and people think , okay , trauma response means there's a bear in the woods , I'm going to run . No , no , no . Trauma responses are happening , both micro moments and macro traumas . Right , so what ? My reaction to my car accident is a macro trauma , but when I first meet you , josh , and I shake your hand , if I'm on any level insecure about my physique or my attractiveness or my size , I'm gonna have trouble looking you in the eye and shaking your hand and you might internalize that as I'm not good enough , when in reality it's actually because you're fucking awesome and you're huge and you're good-looking and all these things .

Speaker 2 16:20

So some of the people that are the most attractive externally actually have the least self-worth internally because of this sort of human pattern that we have in the social world . So what I try to do with my clients , I try to help them win in the real world and figure out what their self-esteem is actually tied to and then win in those couple areas and then allow that to ripple out into the social world , versus trying to get validation in the social world to try to fill something in the real world , which definitely doesn't work . I've tried .

Speaker 1 16:53

It doesn't work doesn't work 100% and you're talking about even just size . This happens with a lot of different areas of life . Right , somebody realizes that you are a real quality person . Right , and they're not used to dealing with somebody who is , like you said , goal-oriented . Right , they get involved with you as a friend . Right , let's say , me and you meet each other and we start to hang out and I'm realizing that you are man , you are on it , and I'm like I'm not really on it as much as he is . Right , and I start to kind of not respond to you . Right , or I stop calling you , I stop hanging out with you , right ? It's not that anything is necessarily wrong with you . It's that , hey with you . Right , it's not that anything is necessarily wrong with you . Is that ?

Speaker 2 17:39

hey , you're making me feel a certain way about myself being around you is uncomfortable for me on the ego level , and it being around you is a reminder of how outside of alignment I actually am because , dude at 26 , when I got in that car accident and I really found self-improvement , personal growth , personal development .

Speaker 2 18:00

That was my main sort of transformational moment . I started to say , okay , I'm gonna work on myself every day and I thought when I became a better man that I would have more friends and people would like me more and and things . But that is , I mean , comically not true . Yeah , I'm talking like it's ridiculous . How untrue that is .

Speaker 2 18:22

Like I , you know I track metrics and habits and priorities , but it's the the better I I've become as a man physically , mentally , emotionally and spiritually the actually more people seek you out but don't really want to be around you . It's , it's so interesting . You feel more sought after in terms of your uh , perception and social status and value , but you actually feel like people don't actually like being around you but that at the same time , they're also fighting to be a part of your life . It's such a fascinating thing and I think that anyone who's ever dealt with any level of fame , fame and ke Kevin and I are not famous by any means , but we have experienced enough of it to realize that it's a lot of . It is the social statusy stuff , and in sports I don't know how high you went in it , but these athletes , your value is so predicated on your , your contribution to the team winning and anything outside of that lane .

Speaker 2 19:17

You're pretty much not of value and and that's just not only economically true , but it's also true in the social status world and and we all wish that wasn't the case because when we our head hits the bed at night , you need to feel of value as a man or as a woman or whatever you identify as , and if you don't have that unconditional love in your real life , oh , you are so fucked and and and I I didn't realize till my 30s how much I didn't actually have that . And a past girlfriend , for example , wanted to date the fitness model but didn't , didn't love because I was a fitness model . 43 photo shoots and fitness competitions , you know , got stomped at two of them . Now , well , I placed every time but I won one of the three . But I was definitely the like fitness model , abercrombie model looking , you know , definitely not , as I was way more in shape back then . Let's just say that , unfortunately , the only thing . That's gotten worse , you know .

Speaker 2 20:18

But I remember being in a relationship with this woman and I remember thinking like you don't love me , like you love the idea of me , you want to be with the hot guy on Instagram who's got 30,000 followers and who is a model and who's ripped a pack and who who is an achiever , but you don't actually want to date that dude because that dude has to get up at 5 am and go to the gym like you want the shiny shit and but you don't want what comes with that .

Speaker 2 20:47

And , by the way , you don't get the fitness model eight pack guy without also the workouts , the foam rolling , the sleep , hydration , nutrition , mobility , breathwork supplementation , like you have have . You have to want everything underneath that iceberg too , and if you can't fall in love with beneath that iceberg , you don't get to be with someone of that caliber . And what I've come to understand is that nobody wants to be around someone who focuses on sleep , hydration , nutrition , training , mobility , breathwork , supplementation , metrics , priorities , habits , structure , calendar , like seriously , it's just not what most people want to do . Everyone wants to be around Michael Phelps , but no one wants to get in the fucking pool .

Speaker 1 21:28

Yeah .

Speaker 2 21:29

And that's so hard for someone like him , who is like why does everyone love me and also not want to be around me ? It's such a fascinating thing .

Speaker 1 21:37

Yeah , it's a very fascinating thing and you have to do the inner work , inner personal development , to understand human nature right and understand that it's not personal .

Speaker 2 21:47

Yeah , it feels .

Speaker 1 21:49

It's tough

Self-Esteem and Internal Validation

Speaker 1 21:50

.

Speaker 2 21:52

It does feel personal right .

Speaker 1 21:56

But you also mentioned something very key , key . You said the , the internal work right , the self-esteem um . What do you do to to grow that , to um be a little bit more in tune with your self-esteem and how you feel about yourself yourself ? So the ?

Speaker 2 22:15

oh sorry , you have powerful pauses so I didn't know if you were .

Speaker 1 22:18

Yeah , I'm sorry don't be sorry .

Speaker 2 22:20

Powerful pauses are good man it's good , it's real good .

Speaker 2 22:24

So I used to believe I'm also so excited , like my excitement is sometimes come off , it comes off too much . Uh , I gotta channel my passion , channel it , calm down , it's all gonna be fine . I've been waiting for years to be asked this question . No , uh , so the self-esteem piece . I used to believe that you could change . So when I first found self-improvement I was like , okay , this is it all the stuff people hate about me . I'm gonna change it . And then you change it and it gets worse and people don't even like you even more , right , uh . And you realize , okay , I can't change who I am , but what I can do is uncover who I actually am and then grow from that place .

Speaker 2 23:09

So I think a lot of people like myself start in self-improvement and personal growth and personal development going okay , well , I don't like that . I'm tall and lanky , so I'm gonna get jacked . And then you start working on yourself and you do fitness and all that stuff . And then it's well , I'm a computer engineer and I'm a math thinker and everything is structure and equations for me . But I'm going to try to be more social , I'm going to be more extroverted , right ? And then you go out and you try to change who you are and it's , it's atrocious . It's terrible , yeah , because you're not fulfilled , because you're never going to be fulfilled when you're not in alignment with who you actually are . So I don't do any of that anymore .

Speaker 2 23:47

What I now do with clients is they come to me and they say , okay , here's where I am , I want to try to be this person and achieve this thing , and I used to try to help them do that , and then it would never work because they'd go on that journey . The process was never aligned with who they really are . They have to mitigate every weakness and , basically , and avoid any strength and every strength comes with a weakness , by the way , and it was like trying to get kevin to beat lebron james at basketball . It's , it's , it's impossible . You can't . You're not naturally gifted in that area .

Speaker 2 24:20

So what we do , I think all of us have a really negative relationship with our weaknesses and our gifts , and every gift comes with a weakness . So I'll give you one of my gifts . One of my gifts is math . I adore . I think in exponentials , I think in equations . I don't think I've ever gotten below an A in math in my entire life . With minimal effort , I mean , I could party all night still , you know , show up just to the tests and get an A . And I'm not saying that to brag , I'm saying this because it comes with a massive weakness .

Speaker 2 24:51

So when it comes to goals and metrics and reverse engineering , finish lines and helping people measure the right things and achieve their goals very , very good finance , easy science , technology , engineering , mathematics , business and finance all strengths they come naturally . Guess what doesn't relationships ? That dude is not gonna be good at relationships because he doesn't understand that no one thinks like he does statistically . So if you're at the very far end of any statistical bell curve , you have an opportunity to do something very unique and very special , but it destroys your relationships . Why ? Because if you're naturally awesome at football and you play against me and we're friends , if I don't feel good enough and I'm insecure , I'm going to treat you poorly , unless you're on my team , and that's where all this stuff that we already talked about comes in . So what do we do ? We hide our strengths to fit in .

Speaker 1 25:47

Yes .

Speaker 2 25:48

And then we also hide our weaknesses to fit in . And , by the way , the weaknesses come as a result of the strengths . So for me , high self-belief , math modality of thinking , high levels of certainty , great external achievement . I have to hide all that , pretend I'm humble . Now I'm not saying I'm not humble , but I have to pretend to be less certain than I actually am .

Speaker 1 26:09

Yeah , you got to shrink yourself .

Speaker 2 26:12

A hundred percent to fit in Make other people feel , yeah , in the world of the insecure , the truly secure person has to shrink , otherwise they don't belong , and they get rocks thrown at them and all that kind of stuff . So we're all afraid of failure and success . Success is if I'm too successful , I'm going to get ostracized from my peers , and or they're going to start treating me weird . If I get to failure , I'll be ostracized from the group , because no one wants to play basketball with the worst player either , right , so no one wants to be Michael Jordan , but no one wants to be a bench player either .

Speaker 2 26:47

So and again , insert sports metaphor here sports podcast , great . The truth is , though , is we're all in this little box between floor and ceiling of success and failure , so it all comes down to who you associate with , which is why our reference group determines such a huge there have been so many studies on this . Our reference group determines such a huge amount of our success because it's almost like all of us . If our number one need is belonging , social belonging , need is belonging , social belonging , and all your peers make 60 grand a year and you start making 160 , all of a sudden things get weird and you don't understand what's happening .

Speaker 2 27:29

They're not happy . Some of them are , but some of them aren't . Some of them are pretending to be the whole thing , unconsciously , because I'd rather fit in and be mediocre than actually be truly great . And a good metaphor for this is to say and maybe they do , I'm not sure , I don't know them , but we all know the higher and this has been really hard for me the higher that Kevin and I climb for lack of better phrasing the harder it is for us to have meaningful relationships with people we went to high school with , and that's been really hard for me .

Speaker 2 28:17

It's been harder on me than him because I don't think he cares as much , but his , his core wound is different than mine . Um , but I've forgotten the original question because I've gotten off track . Do you remember what it was ?

Speaker 1 28:28

I can't remember . I know you shared a lot of oh self-esteem . We talked about self-esteem how to grow yourself awesome okay .

Speaker 2 28:37

So inside out versus outside in . If you're playing outside in , you're in trouble . Inside out versus outside in . So the old me used to say , okay , you're here , you want to be here , you can achieve this . No , no , I don't do that anymore . Everything has to start from high self-awareness . So I coach 26 individuals right now business coach , but I did fitness and mindset and peak performance a lot of stuff . So now what we do first is self-awareness . So step one is self-awareness . Step two is self-acceptance . Step three now it's you can go achieve . I think one of the reasons a lot of people don't achieve their goals and you can look this up the statistics on who has clear written goals that they actually achieve , whether it's New Year's resolutions or whatever it's very low , super low .

Speaker 2 29:23

Most people are stumbling upon results and then trying to hold on to it . Seriously , when it comes to premeditated goals that you write down in advance , a lot of times those goals are predicated on low self-awareness . So , legs though , I mean , I can run like the wind so if I want , but what do I care about ? I don't care about being fast , I've always already fast . Long legs , long distance running , no problem . What do I want ? To be jacked .

Speaker 2 29:56

So we all want to be different than we are exactly see , that's the problem , whereas I could just go all in on what I'm already naturally gifted at and then improve from that place . But if I do that , I get all of the upsides of success but all of the social downsides that come with that .

Speaker 2 30:15

And if my real goal is to belong , I'm not going to amplify my statistical advantage yeah right , and so as I've grown older and older and older , I've had to heal and to get back to self-esteem . I realized this . All of us myself , you , my business partner Kev , my girlfriend Amelia we just talked about this earlier today we tie our self-esteem unconsciously to a couple things . I did this with a client earlier . His name is Bradley . I tie my self-esteem to three things and I won't share his , but I used it as an example and we got clear on his .

Speaker 2 30:49

Number one is fitness being a freak athlete . So for me , I was pre-pubescent , didn't hit puberty till senior year of high school , definitely a nerd , overlooked by every girl , not attractive . Didn't become a man until way later . I care so deeply about being big and strong because I always felt lanky and weak and I got bullied a lot , okay . So number one tie my self-esteem to my athleticism .

Speaker 2 31:21

Number two is my relationship with emilia . That's where my belonging is . I belong with her to a deep , deep , deep level . It's the fucking best . I met her five years ago . It's the best relationship I've ever been in , by far Greatest gift of my life and , quite frankly , I wouldn't be here if I didn't have that at the core , because I would be still chasing for belonging and external validation . I get so much belonging from my relationship that it allows me to go flourish and sort of say goodbye to a lot of relationships that were holding me back . All right . The third one is my body of work . This is a little bit weird , but I can't stand when I do poor work . So if this episode is not something that I feel like I gave my all to make it as valuable as possible ,

The Paradox of Success and Belonging

Speaker 2 32:04

I will be unfulfilled afterwards . So those are the three things that I tie my self-esteem to .

Speaker 2 32:11

Kevin wouldn't mind me sharing his . I think his are a lot more relatable , quite frankly . Number one car he drives . Number two money in the bank account . Number three dude wants to be jacked and he'll admit this to all of you . I think he's just more honest than most people . I think most people do tie self-esteem to those three things , but they're not honest about it .

Speaker 2 32:35

And one of the ironies is when Kev was a kid , that's all he really wanted . He wanted to have enough money to drive his dream car . He wanted to have money in the bank because he and his upbringing didn't have any and , uh , he wanted to be jacked , which he was . He worked really hard in fitness his whole life because he felt short and insignificant . So when he was bigger , he felt better about himself .

Speaker 2 33:01

And what I've come to understand , the old me would have said well , you got to be careful tying your self-esteem to those three things . And there's truth to that , because as you mature , you really need to hopefully be more wholesome than just those three things . But what I've come to realize is that once those three things are actually winning , from Kevin's own internal perspective , that's when he's a better husband , that's when he's a better business partner . When we don't have money in the bank , dude , he is like , so scarce . I'm not Whether we have five or 25 or 55 cash on hand . I'm the same-ish person .

Speaker 2 33:45

But ifelia and I aren't good . I would have canned this podcast . Yeah , yeah , I can't go serve when we're not good . So , and the reason why is because my core wound is unlovable and for him it's defective , not good enough . He never thought he'd be successful . I never thought I'd be successful in a relationship , so so of course , we tie our well-being to the thing that we thought we'd never have . Success for me comes fairly easy in terms of external success , even though you're not allowed to say that , but relationships never came easy . So for me I tie a lot of self-esteem and it's all linked to survival from an evolutionary perspective .

Speaker 1 34:23

Talk about that so needs , right . It sounds like you're saying that first of all , you need to be self-aware . Like what makes you feel good , right , even if it is external right , accept it . Don't try to be somebody else . Don't try to be somebody else . Don't try to be like others . Right , accept yourself of who you are . Right . But also , too , when you said , like these needs that we have , um , that's when I start to feel out of whack . Is , wait , I don't have food in the fridge . It's like when I under , when I start to feel a little bit out of whack , when I start to feel like I don't have things together , it's telltale signs that I'm kind of neglecting the small needs that I have . Right . But also , too , that bleeds into the needs of , like you said , of belonging belonging , love , um , you know , fitness , all of these areas that help me thrive , right ? Um , is that similar for everybody , right ? Or what's your thoughts there ?

Speaker 2 35:38

I think that when , when kevin , for example , just using him as an example , my business partner , when he and some of your listeners will know him too , cause he's been on the show and he doesn't mind me , the reason I'm using him is because your listeners know him , you know him and he doesn't mind me sharing these things Right , so you always got to be careful , as a public figure , what you talk about . Um , but I have permission in advance to talk about all this , so it's good . But Kevin , for example , his need for he wants to be in great shape , he wants to have money in the bank account and he wants to drive a nice car . As long as those three things are good , he feels like he can be his best self . What's deeper than that are the needs you're talking about . It's not actually about the car or the money or the body it's about what his unconscious mind has connected .

Speaker 2 36:24

Those two and those are the base needs . The base needs that I think we're all going for are growth contra growth , impact fulfillment , really money , because , um , in the past it would be bartering , it would be , you know , assets , things like that , but now it really . I mean it really is money , currency , whatever your currency is , um , and then belonging . Belonging those are the ones we really need . Yeah , and kevin's always felt like he belongs and and I'm at the fear of sounding like a pretentious person I'm going to share this because I do believe it will help people and that is my sincere goal . If you are average in something , it's easy to belong , because most people are average .

Speaker 1 37:18

Wow .

Speaker 2 37:19

Right Anything that you are not like . If you're way above average or way below average , you usually don't feel like you belong , because you actually don't . You actually don't and that's why you have to go . So , for example , the percentage of people that are in the NFL is extremely , extremely , extremely low , okay . And then the percentage of people that actually play consistently and start very , very low , okay . So if you play in the NFL , you belong with other people who play in the NFL and understand what that's like and you have similar challenges . Your life isn't easy , by the way , because people think biggest lie of all time , in my honest opinion , is that success makes life easier . No , no , no . Success makes life harder . You don't get to the NFL and go oh , nice , easier your life . No , no , no . Now you have to play against the best in the world .

Speaker 2 38:09

And if you get injured , you're gone right or whatever it is . And now you're competing at a level that requires more of you , not less of you , understanding , I think , ever . Unless it's generational wealth . That's a snowball that was built and created by someone prior to you and your family . When you reach a new level of success , it means life is harder . So it's great , right ? 2000 episodes , 16 person team , 175 countries , 1.17 million listens . That all sounds awesome , and it and it is , and that's the goal . But my life is not easier . Kevin and I's life is actually harder now . We have more responsibility , more to lose , more to sustain , more to grow right . How do you grow from that place , right ? So I think that that's a big breakthrough as well . But ultimately , it's all these needs that are unconscious , and I think we're all wired in a certain way to value our needs in a different syntax . So my need for belonging is higher than Kevin's , because I didn't belong more than Kevin .

Speaker 1 39:14

Yeah .

Speaker 2 39:16

His need for money is higher than mine because I feel like making money comes naturally to me . So , of course , right , and that's why you have to sort of heal . But also understand this about yourself . And the paradox is , if you try to change what you tie your self-esteem to without actually meeting it first , you probably won't be able to have the abundance to actually change it . So , yes , me at 36 understands all this intellectually , but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly like oh yeah , it doesn't bother me at all that my friends talk to Kev more than me and comment on his stuff but don't like my stuff . The truth is it bothers me and I use it to motivate me with the chip on my shoulder a little bit , but I also know that I can't let it run me . But I also have to know that it it definitely affects me . Um cause , that's a need .

Speaker 1 40:07

Yeah , yeah , and I think that's so deep because I , I obviously for me it's very similar fitness , uh , money , and I think belonging is very huge for me .

Speaker 2 40:22

Um sounds like that's the most important for you .

Speaker 1 40:25

Yes , it is right . Belonging and also being seen as somebody that people admire , right , admiration , right , which is something that is out of my control , right , even though I feel like I can control it . So that's where the fitness comes in . That's where making sure everything is in order and polished comes in right . That's when I you know , you know when I read a lot of books and be and make sure the way I think and express myself and I communicate is polished , is because it is a admiration piece .

Speaker 2 41:09

Do you think that it felt disrespected when you were younger and you feel like people maybe don't respect you so you're . So kevin and I had this discussion a while back . He , he , I . I think that I I had a big breakthrough when I realized that I was actually jealous of Kevin . I didn't know this consciously , but I was like everybody loves that dude , like everybody likes him . We would give a speech and I'm convinced my speech was more valuable and everyone would hate me and love him and he . So we realized something he is jealous of how much I'm respected and sometimes how much I'm admired . Yeah , I'm jealous of how much everyone just likes this dude . Everyone likes him . I don't feel like a easily likable , the regular , relatable guy that's humble , that everybody can relate to , and you're trying to be more like me to get admiration for people to look up to you .

Speaker 2 42:17

And here I am trying to be normal when I'm not , to try to be relatable . When I'm not to try to be relatable when I'm not , it's like dude . What if we just leaned into who we actually are

Accepting Your Strengths and Final Thoughts

Speaker 2 42:31

Because I'm not naturally relatable ? Right , no one does . No one tracks 13 metrics and 19 habits a day . Right , I mean , that's not a normal thing . Everyone in my team does . Everyone in my coaching program does Not that many , but tracks metrics and habits . So that's what I whatever you are be a good one , I think is the place to end here , which is again goes back to self-awareness first , self-acceptance . That's the hard part .

Speaker 2 42:57

You got to accept that you're not naturally gifted . If you're not , you got to accept that you are gifted . If you are , you're not allowed to say it . By the way , I'm risking ostracization by saying these things , but I'm trying to help .

Speaker 2 43:10

But , like I was the guy who was kind of gifted intellectually , not athletically- not athletically , intellectually for sure , and while you're not allowed to say that out loud , it is the truth . And the goals that I have are not going to work for everybody , and I think that everyone needs to understand their own giftedness , or lack thereof , and then work from that honest place . And if you do , I mean that's when you create fulfillment 100% , 100% .

Speaker 1 43:43

Well , Alan man , a lot of great value that we share in this combo . We could keep going , but definitely want to be conscious of time . Where can people find you ? Where can people continue to follow your journey ?

Speaker 2 43:56

Thank you so much for having me , josh . Seriously , this was awesome . It's cool to do this again five years later . I guess now , or four or five years later .

Speaker 1 44:06

Yeah .

Speaker 2 44:07

And keep doing what you're doing . For sure , thank you for having me and thank you for doing what you're doing in the world . Seriously , I think the world needs more of this . I do , and of course I'm biased , but I mean , if we all work on self-improvement , self-awareness , self-acceptance , the world becomes a better place because we stop hurting each other constantly . Right , we all sweep our own porch , the whole world will be clean , kind of thing . So , yeah , I'm a naive optimist , although the naive is being ripped out of me for sure . Okay , where can people find me ? Next level universe calm .

Speaker 2 44:43

We have a podcast called Next Level University . Next Level you , not Next Level Me . Next Level you pun intended unique version of yourself . It's a place you go to help reach your potential 1% improvement every single day , from anywhere on the planet , completely free in your pocket . Holistic self-improvement , heart-driven , but no BS . Holistic self-improvement for dream chasers , and it really is for anyone who sincerely wants to chase their dreams . Maybe your dream is to have a villa on the beach . Maybe your dream is to have a great relationship . Maybe your dream is to be in great shape . Maybe your dream is to build a billion dollar business . Whatever it is , whatever that dream is whatever that vision is . Next Level University is there to help you become the version of yourself that actually can attract and sustain and earn . Earn that success . And the keyword is earn there , because kevin and I are tryhards who came from very little and we don't believe in the big rewards for minimal effort shit yeah , it doesn't , doesn't happen though it doesn't happen , you got to earn it .

Speaker 1 45:47

I've tried the shortcuts . I've tried it . It doesn't work .

Speaker 2 45:51

So let me be the example .

Speaker 1 45:53

Let me be the example , alan . We appreciate you and man can't wait to see the continued success .

Speaker 2 46:01

Thank you so much , Josh . Thank you .

Speaker 1 46:03

Love it .