The Legal Geeks

Spooky Legal Review of The Mummy 1999

• Joshua Gilliland, Jordon Huppert, and Kris Butler

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Join us for our review of The Mummy (1999), where we get wrapped up in Conspiracy to Assassinate a Pharaoh, Cruel and Unusual Punishment, workplace safety, just what crime justified a death sentence for Rick O'Connell, contract performance, and adequate warnings for curses. 

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Joshua Gilliland:

Hello, everyone. My name is Joshua Gilloland, one of the founding attorneys of the Legal Geeks. We are here to discuss the 1999 classic The Mummy with lots of legal analysis. With me for this adventure is Chris Butler and Jordan Hooper. Chris, how are you doing this evening?

Kris Butler:

Oh, I'm doing all right. I'm always up to talk the mummy.

Joshua Gilliland:

And Jordan back for more.

Jordon Huppert:

I wasn't gonna come back, but I really do love this movie.

Joshua Gilliland:

It was the when I was in my first apartment at Davis and finally got cable. This was the first movie that was on. And it was Halloween, and so was waiting for trick-or-treaters and had the mummy on. So it was fun stuff, but there's legal analysis to be had. Uh, but before we get to that, Chris, why do you love this movie?

Kris Butler:

Oh, it's just so much fun. Uh, you know, you have the the the whole, you know, sort of like fantastical plot of like, okay, well, you have this ancient mummy from Egypt that's coming back, and uh you have this, oh, like I don't I don't believe in the supernatural kind of character, you know, a la like Indiana Jones, and uh then you have the uh Benny who is just such a funny character, and I still think it's just the classic scene where you know the mummy is uh MOTEP is approaching him and he's going through all the different religions, and then he gets to the star of David, and he's like, the language of the slaves, and he's just like, Oh, this one it was just it just cracks me up every time.

Joshua Gilliland:

Jordan, how about you?

Jordon Huppert:

Um I don't know. I think I saw it in theaters when it came out, and uh every time it aired on TNT after that, or whatever station it was on, ended up watching it on TV. It is a hilarious movie. Um I love the action scenes in it. I love Brendan Fraser. Uh the the guy who plays Benny is truly just an acting genius to make that kind of a very believable con man, but also just really funny. I also love the scene with all the necklaces. That's one I've always remembered too.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yes, yeah, there's a lot here. So let's get into the legal issues. Um I like this because it's probably the only successful relaunch of a universal monster. So uh, you know, Karloff played Emotep in the original The Mummy, and he's terrifying and sinister, and the special effects and and makeup at that time were very impressive. And this movie does a really good job carrying that forward with a more enjoyable plot for the protagonists. Um, there's actually something there, and that's fun. Brendan Fraser is delightful, and also I just I think back to, you know, it's like, wow, I finally have cable in my college apartment, and here I go. Uh actually, by then it was first year of law school. So uh just had graduated college and was you know getting law school underway, and here was cable. So let's get into the legal issues, and we start back 3,000 plus years ago. There's uh uh I think somebody put in you you don't own people. Like there was you know the Israelites being used as slave labor to build pyramids for the pharaoh pharaoh. It's like there are epic stories told about why that's bad. And uh just a lot there. Jordan, did you add this section?

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah, I tacked this one in. I was watching it, I hadn't seen it in years, so I actually it's the first and only movie I've bought from Amazon. But uh I was watching it the other night again to prep for this, and I th thought you know, this whole thing, all of it could have been avoided if the Pharaoh hadn't had this like weird possessory thing with an ox and a moon as like an ownership thing of her. You know, people don't own people.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, and it's it's not stated that they're married, or am I did I miss that?

Jordon Huppert:

I don't think they're married, I think she's more of a um concubine, maybe yeah, it's kind of what it it seemed like.

Kris Butler:

Um I think she's maybe like a future bride is is my thing, and I think maybe they go into that in like the second one. Um, because they just say like her and and the the princess have like a rivalry in the in the next one. That's right.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, you need to rewatch that. It's been a couple decades, uh, but I can say all of that's bad, like absolutely not okay. And uh, I mean it's not alienation of a f of a faction, like we don't have that anymore. I think it's down to four or five states where that's still a cause of action. And even then, you know, the uh crime of that does not result in execution uh for those handful of states that still have that. Uh everyone else thinks it's against public policy to have such laws, and this is you know, bodily autonomy, free will, uh just there are all kinds of weird, creepy issues with it.

Jordon Huppert:

So, but for the lack of possessive policy, the progressive policies in ancient Egypt, uh, we could have averted the whole mummy disaster.

Joshua Gilliland:

Sure. Which then gets into the issue of conspiracy. Like, so we have uh emotep and on sun. Uh I've always struggled with with saying her name, uh, all the hyphens, uh and the vowels. Uh they have a conspiracy to kill the pharaoh, like that that is a capital offense, yeah. And so it's conspiracy and then murder, and their plan is I will resurrect you. So that that's a detailed plan, uh, as opposed to like, why don't we just leave? We can leave and go someplace else. We don't have to live like this, but no, no, there's like the clergy has a full-on conspiracy with the princess to kill the head of state, and and the clergy's people, like his men were in on it too, at least to some extent, because they were willing to defend him. It's almost like it's a cult, yeah. It's it's really weird behavior because you know, we're all friends, but none of us are gonna go like, hey man, can you help me with X? No, yeah, no uh.

Jordon Huppert:

I mean, certainly not on a recorded podcast, at least.

Joshua Gilliland:

If someone had a breakdown and they were on the side of the road, I'd I'd drive out, but you know, there's uh that's nuts, that's a big ask. And uh the fact that they all go, sure, boss, we're we're with you 100%, is just bonkers that that was their plan, and they went for it.

Jordon Huppert:

We will kill the pharaoh, then they succeeded, so you know, yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

What's weird there's there isn't a continuity of government plan, but there's definitely we will exact revenge for you killing the pharaoh, uh, which opens up the next issue of there's no trial for emoteb, they go straight to executing him, and the execution is cruel and unusual punishment for mummifying someone alive. Yeah who would like to jump into the uh legal issues on what is cruel and unusual punishment?

Kris Butler:

Yeah, I can I can hop in on that. Um, you know, um you know, we can talk a little bit about the the process of of mummification and and how it kind of fits that. Um so when when you look at uh cruel and unusual punishment, you know, there has to be an intent to inflict punishment, which we we can see here, but you have to show that there will be a substantial risk uh that the person is going to suffer unnecessary pain, and it's it's a high degree. Um, and then you know, there's a standards of decency, which you can argue maybe they were just like, well, no, this was considered decent back in that time, but you know, maybe you know, I feel like at that time they had a lot quicker ways to kill people. This one was definitely inflicted, like, we're gonna make sure you suffer on your way out, and you know, the process of mummification involves like removing organs and you know, sometimes removing uh other body parts so that you know it like sort of halts the process of decay. There's dehydration and desanguination, and it's a very long and arduous process, and for him to have lived through even part of that would be terrible.

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah, they're pretty explicit that the reason they're doing it is to cause him great suffering. Yeah, they've only ever done it once, and you know, it is a punishment so terrible that they can't imagine doing it to anybody else, I guess.

Joshua Gilliland:

Well, then and so there are a couple things. I don't think they do the organ removal on him, even though there are sacred jars. So that makes it sound if you start removing body parts, you kill the person. And so again, the heart, brain, like you're done at that point.

Kris Butler:

At that point, murdered, as opposed to other org, other organs, you know, that you can possibly live for some part, sometime without. I mean, yeah, like a liver force magic curse of immortality, yeah. Yeah, that too.

Joshua Gilliland:

The the other part of this that's uh a little weird for those enacting the punishment is you're gonna make him a supernatural monster. Yeah, that doesn't seem like a good idea. Like if you don't want him coming back and you don't want him being a problem, maybe find another way for the administration of justice for this dude to get executed that doesn't involve him coming back as a supernatural being that could end all of humanity. That that seems like uh counterintuitive uh to the point of you know, uh a sent a a sentence, a capital sentence for killing the head of state.

Kris Butler:

Yeah, maybe they're just like, ah, that's not gonna be our problem. We'll be fine.

Joshua Gilliland:

It's we don't need to recycle here.

Jordon Huppert:

Putting off catastrophic problems on future generations, who would do? Who would do that?

Joshua Gilliland:

I don't know. But so just for those curious about the legal standards, an execution is cruel and unusual under the US law. If the method presents a substantial or objectively intolerable risk of serious harm, it's from a 2008 case. Uh, other courts have articulated the legal standard for determining whether a form of execution violates the cruel uh the prohibition of cruel and usual and unusual punishment, as one presents a substantial risk that a prisoner will suffer unnecessarily and want and pain in an execution, violates the evolving standards of decency that mark a mature society, minimizes physical violence and mutilation of the prisoner's body. So I recognize that we're applying our standards of the 21st century to 3,000 plus years ago. So you could say the society was still evolving, but it's ancient Egypt, which was an advanced society that goes through its ups and downs. And uh, but I think all three boxes are checked here. So the prisoner will suffer unnecessary and want and pain. Yep, done.

Jordon Huppert:

Whole point.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, you that uh that was the point. Uh violates the evolving standards of decency that mark a mature society. I don't think anyone wants to argue we have an immature society, so therefore this was okay. That seems to be a bad argument.

Jordon Huppert:

And then minimize buying someone alive doesn't violate the evolving standards of decency.

Joshua Gilliland:

No, uh where was decency at all in the story?

Jordon Huppert:

Got that one checked.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, and then minimizes physical violence and mutilation of the prisoner's body. Uh done. Like, yep, we got it. He's been, you know, there's violence and there's mutilation. So from dumping the beetles on him to just sealing them alive and letting them suffocate uh to expire, all bad. Uh so uh either of you want to chime in with that?

Jordon Huppert:

I don't know if I would say it's minimizing the physical violence and mutilation. I think it seems to be more reveling physical violence and mutilation of his body.

Joshua Gilliland:

Let's crank this up to 11.

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah. Fun fact, apparently the beetles that they poured in with him were supposed to eat him alive, and then since he couldn't die, he would be starving and have to eat the beetles in a weird, never-ending cycle of life and death. Huh. Gross.

Kris Butler:

Yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

That's messed up on all kinds of levels. So uh, next note, creating an invincible plague as a punishment seems like a terrible idea. Who who picked that?

Kris Butler:

Oh, I put that in there. But no, like who who really thought that was a good a good idea? Like, I know they're just like, oh, we well, we have the um the the Magi that are gonna, you know, keep him under wraps, but it was just like, okay, all right. Maybe you know, you you think of a scenario where the the magi fail, you know, they're just people, like you didn't give them supernatural powers. Like, if you're gonna give the the person you're trying to lock up supernatural powers, maybe give the people that are supposed to protect, you know, the two supernatural powers. Yeah, just a thought, yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

Or maybe there's somebody in the magi that would like to be an artist or go to film school or be a doctor, and it's like, no, son, this is your birthright, this is your job. We're gonna stand guard over this dead city to make sure a terrible monster doesn't come back. Thanks, Dad. And what great, great, great, great, great grandpa said we had to do this because that seems like I I don't have free will in the story.

Kris Butler:

And it'd be like, but it's your dream, son. No, dad, it's your dream.

Joshua Gilliland:

It was great, great, great, great grandpa's dream, and we're stuck with it. So, I mean, they went from the Egyptian gods to Islam at some point over the generations. That's a big switch. Because he's at the end, he says, go with Allah. It's like so you change generational faith change.

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah, fascinating. Still keyed to the mission.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, like and that was the other part of this. It's like okay, that's a big switch.

Kris Butler:

Because when and and for them, like it'd be one thing if they said that prior to him being unlocked, and then afterwards, they're like, huh, maybe the Egyptian guys were on or they were on to something. Because if you just saw that and they did that while they were under the Egyptian guys, you might be like, huh, maybe we need to go dig out some old family heirlooms to figure out what's going on.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, it also it also raises the the question of um Moses and the Exodus out of Egypt. Because, like, how did that play out? And if you have historical evidence of actual Egyptian gods people coming back from the dead, that's how religions start. And and people would take note of what just you this is the book of the dead? Okay, a lot to unpack there. Uh a lot of theses.

Jordon Huppert:

Although I don't know that the Egyptians had proof that you could come back from the dead, they just believed it.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, but I think all the dead mummies coming out of the ground would be exhibits A through F of that it worked.

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah, but how many people saw that?

Joshua Gilliland:

And survived? Yeah, like that's uh good question. Uh, but it's it's it raises all kinds of theological issues as well. So I here so at the beginning we see you know our hero with Benny, and it's in secondary material that says they're in the French Foreign Legion. So I I was watching, I was like, who who are they? Like they're in uniforms. Who are these guys? And who are they fighting? And so we have the French Foreign Legion fighting against who in the 1920s. And do do either of you did did either of you have a reaction to that?

Kris Butler:

Yeah, I was I was confused. I I looked it up to try and find out like who they were fighting, and they weren't really in Egypt at that time period, you know, they were like a couple maybe like 30 years prior, and then maybe you like helped out a bit during World War II, but I I don't know who they were fighting. It's like, are they actually the French Foreign Legion, or did you know like a battalion say, like, hey, let's go on holiday real quick and go steal, go, you know, grave robbing down in Egypt? Like, it's possible.

Jordon Huppert:

So O'Connell does say later in the movie that his whole battalion believed so much that they followed whoever through the desert to find it. So I don't know that they were there officially.

Joshua Gilliland:

Off book. Okay. But but still, it's like this looks more like something Napoleon's men would have done, which would take it out of the 21st century. So there would be no airplane. Uh, but that would also be a fascinating film to watch because again, different tech, different beliefs. Uh, but you don't have cars or airplanes if we're dealing with you know Napoleonic invasions. Anywho, um idea who they were fighting, though. Yeah, yeah, not a clue. Yeah, so we then get introduced to Evelyn, who's in the library and ends up on a ladder and knocks down monster-sized bookcases. They they go over like dominoes, and it raises the issue of damage to the library by by an employee, and this raises OSHA issues and others. Who wants to jump in?

Kris Butler:

Well, you OSHA wouldn't have existed then. No, but even even missed it by about 10 years, by about 10 years.

Joshua Gilliland:

So that's that's the 30s when we get safe, yeah.

Kris Butler:

The occupational uh safety and health act.

Joshua Gilliland:

So FDR time frame. Okay, so we're in the it's post-Theodore Roosevelt's square deal, you know, with trying to minimize child labor and some of the other, you know, bad things that were happening to employees. With what do you mean you don't want to work seven days a week, 14 hours a day?

Kris Butler:

What do you mean we can't lock you in a building even if it gets you know the fire breaks out?

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, yeah. Who needs that? Um, but again, OSHA does say that you have to have safe working conditions, and I think there were safe conditions. It's her taking a ladder for a walk. That's the problem. Now, there could be an issue with that should have been a two-person job with somebody holding the ladder so you don't end up dying horribly, or have the ladder hook onto the shelves, yeah.

Kris Butler:

Yeah, and then you know, have a wheels on the bottom so it can roll.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, there are other ways where this isn't dangerous.

Jordon Huppert:

So I'm she improperly trained in the use of the ladder, Josh.

Joshua Gilliland:

It's well, it's the wrong tool for the for the job, and so I mean that'd be might be fine for painting the bookcases or the walls in the library, but for going along the bookcases uh seems bad. I so John Quincy Adams had the first presidential library, and I went to it and it was cool because it's actually a library, and it's one of those with the you know, the the ladder that rolls along, uh dream nerd. You know, again, it's it's like small bar, and it's like, yep, this literally is a library.

Jordon Huppert:

One of my friends built one of those. I'm super jealous. Rolling ladder hooks onto the bars of the sh everything.

Joshua Gilliland:

Is is it weird that I want one?

Jordon Huppert:

No, I want one too.

Joshua Gilliland:

This is my library, and I come here and study and do work, and we'll have nice paintings and other fun stuff. It'll have tea. Uh, but again, it's weird to have that as a goal, I think, because you see that that'd be pretty cool. But those bookshelves in this movie aren't like bolted to the floor, it's easy for them to go over like dominoes.

Kris Butler:

Yeah, that that makes it really unsafe because you would think that even with a bunch of books with that amount of weight, they'd be kind of either not necessarily bolted into the ground, but they would have such a weight that they would be maybe bottom heavy.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, so you don't I I don't know if they get earthquakes in regularly. I mean, any part of the planet can get an earthquake, but if it's prone to earthquakes, is I think the more important question.

Jordon Huppert:

I think Egypt's particularly prone to earthquakes.

Joshua Gilliland:

Don't know, can ask. It's a noble fact. Uh, but yeah, you would want the bookshelves to not go dominoes. Um, but again, it looked like it was a practical effect. Stunt looked practical, good for them.

Jordon Huppert:

Apparently, it was all done in one take.

Joshua Gilliland:

It would have to be. So it's it's uh oh, God bless them. All right, so Rick's in prison and gonna get sentenced to death. How? I mean, like, I just did anyone hear any rationale for what he did that got him a death sentence?

Jordon Huppert:

He had a very good time.

Joshua Gilliland:

That's that's generally not a capital offense.

Jordon Huppert:

It's the only rationale they give. Yeah. Uh capital offenses for us are murder and murder and maybe treason. I'm not sure treason is a good one. Yeah, treason's offense.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, yeah, but it's yeah, highly specific.

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah, I I career public defender, we don't get we don't get to that level.

Joshua Gilliland:

I I would hope not.

Kris Butler:

Um that's a rough afternoon if that's the client call of you did what I think there have only been 30 cases of treason in in US history, and the last one I think might be in the 40s.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, there were some World War II ones.

Kris Butler:

Yeah, there was Kramer versus United States, and I'm totally not doing uh a treason video on Star Wars at all. Uh, but uh I I can I could pull up that document. But no, I think uh yeah, so I think treason is under there and it is not highly charged. Sedition, oddly enough, is like treason light.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, there so during World War II, I looked at this like a decade ago, so I'm going off memory. There was like aid and comfort to the enemy cases. There was an American citizen of Japanese descent who was in Japan at the start of World War II and got stuck there and like ended up working for the Japanese, either as like helping do interrogations with POWs, the bad things that that got him, I think might have been his citizenship removed. Uh again, knowable fact. Uh, but uh it's some of those type of cases. And I think there were, I think, some attempted treason cases with people of German descent in New York, and some of the German spies were dropped off via submarine, like looked up their buddies, and it's like, hey Klaus, how did how did you get here? And you know, and it was like, Hey, can you help me go blow up a factory? And it was like, No, no, I will not. I like it here.

Kris Butler:

Um, so there was one guy who his son uh was um a spy for the Germans, and he was helping his son do things, but he was doing it because he's just helping his son, whereas that that was the defense he took, and he got convicted of treason. Now he didn't get the death penalty for it, he got life in prison. But yeah, that was like house fee something.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, there's uh not good, not good. Uh I'm curious to see what the the guy who the former sailor, there still might be sailor, you know, who ended up burning down one of our you know a uh attack ships, uh, you know, the one of the baby aircraft carriers, and it was something about his mom, who's also of Chinese descent, thought it'd be a good idea for him to be able to get a job with the Chinese government if he you know turned over US state secrets. Um, what's how's that trial play out? Mom said I should betray my country.

Kris Butler:

Hey, if you have the intent to betray your country to an enemy, there it is.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, and and do you how long mom now needs to be lumped in as part of the of a conspirator?

Kris Butler:

So uh again could be co-defended at that point, and there's and there's a witness. You need two witnesses.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah. So there's a whole bunch of issues with O'Connell getting the death sentence by hanging. Like we don't I don't think any state still allows hanging unless it's some weird one that's uh we still have a firing squad, at least we Utah still has the firing squad. Yeah, isn't Utah you can select the way your menu of of how you want to be executed, and that's that's why someone picked firing squad.

Kris Butler:

Yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

Okay. Which feels awful to me, but it's again, it's there there aren't a lot of good ways to die, uh, besides like old and in bed.

Kris Butler:

Um the last hanging took place in Delaware in 1996.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, I don't think that's something we've got to do.

Kris Butler:

Not as long ago as you want it to be. Yeah, I was like, I was surprised it said that you know, I would have thought it would have probably gone out, I would say, the 70s.

Joshua Gilliland:

At the latest or 30s, like you you think that's the sort of thing that would have stopped during World War II? Like, we would have just not done it anymore post Roosevelt, like definitely not Truman or Eisenhower, but okay, if it's during the Clinton administration, yeah. Okay, well, that's upsetting. All right, so we have abuses of a prisoner, they they do not treat uh O'Connell well.

Kris Butler:

So that's the other thing is is this a State-ran prison or like a government-ran prison, or is this just, you know, there's been some person just appointed in charge of this area and he's just doing whatever he wants. He just sort of given unchecked power.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, I I thought it was unchecked power, and I don't know if it's state sponsored, or if this is like a like warlord or corporate ruled area where it's, you know, again, there's negotiations with this leader uh for Jack to, or excuse me, for Rick to not be executed and ordered in and like there there's negotiations on like 25% of what we find, and we need them alive in order to do so. I mean, like that's warden. Okay.

Jordon Huppert:

That's his credit.

Joshua Gilliland:

So a warden deciding I'm not going to carry out an execution order because I want to go treasure hunting. The warden doesn't have the power to grant that kind of clemency.

Kris Butler:

Nope.

Joshua Gilliland:

Nor do we want warden to not legally. No, we nor do we want a warden to have that kind of power uh to to do that either. Like that's just that's bad mojo.

Kris Butler:

Public corruption.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah. And yeah, and yeah, easy motif of the corrupt warden of like, well, we can pay him off from Sha Shank to other movies as well and TV shows. All right, we have sexual battery. Uh O'Connell kissing Evelyn. Uh, that's that's a sexual battery. That's just wrong. And when he's confronted by it, it's like seemed like a good idea at the time because I thought it was going to die. That um Evelyn did not like hearing that.

Jordon Huppert:

No.

Joshua Gilliland:

Just just say no. Just just don't. All right. So we have a performance contract that's entered for Rick to lead everyone to the city of the dead. And it's a multi-party contract. So the contract's technically between Evelyn and the warden, but it's to be performed by Rick. And that's how Rick gets out of jail is by this performance. Does that make him a third-party beneficiary? But he has to perform. Is he a late party to the contract? What do you gentlemen think?

Jordon Huppert:

He does presumably agree to it at some point.

Kris Butler:

Yeah, but then you have the issue of unequal bargaining power because it's like do this or die.

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah. Pretty clearly duress. Yeah. Agree to take us there, join our contract, or we'll kill you.

Kris Butler:

Is there extortion here?

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, there's a yeah, that's pretty intense because uneven bargain bargaining power, and he's not part of the original deal. So, you know, his he gets a stay of execution and effectively told, take me to the city of the dead to go find treasure, and you get to go free.

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah. Or is there an argument that Eevee is acting as his agent? He says, Get me out of here, and I'll take you to Haminoptra.

Kris Butler:

Mm-hmm. That's true.

Joshua Gilliland:

That's good catch.

Kris Butler:

Or is it a work release program?

Jordon Huppert:

I mean, if the warden could commute sentences, then why not give him full authority over work release?

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, that's that's a lot of power for a warden because now it's it's like the governor granting clemency. It's it's normally an executive that gets to do that, as in like the leader of the state or the city or no country.

Jordon Huppert:

It's not so pretty sure you're not allowed to do that in exchange for 25% of a treasure.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, ultra virus. Like that, this is well outside your job duties. I mean, I don't know.

Kris Butler:

It seemed to work out for Nick Cage in National Treasure. He donated uh, you know, like 98 or 99 percent of the treasure that they found, and he got away with committing a litany of crimes. That was after the fact, that's just plea bargaining.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, it's a little presidential pardon, you know, action there, but it's it's not like the the head of the Smithsonians like we're gonna go on an adventure. I mean, first off, that would be cool, like if that were let's call Hollywood.

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah, side note idea for a movie.

Joshua Gilliland:

Everyone, we're we're going to Mount Rushmore, and it's like yeah, that that doesn't happen. Fun idea.

Jordon Huppert:

They're closed right now, they might be willing.

Joshua Gilliland:

We're gonna fund this baby one way or another. Uh let's go find the lost Dutchman mine and uh off the gold country. Okay, so those are all things that happen. Uh we have uh Benny shows up alive. Now, an earlier issue with Benny is if Benny and Rick were on a joint venture to find treasure, did Benny breach his fiduciary duty to Rick by abandoning him at the beginning of the film?

Jordon Huppert:

I mean you'd have to go through the other layer of the first person to run is the captain. And then Benny tells Rick that he's the highest rank or whatever he says, and that Rick's in charge now.

Joshua Gilliland:

And then Benny goes and like seals himself off and leaves Rick and everyone else to die. Is that yeah, I mean, there there are weird issues that if they're off book from the French Foreign Legion, like they're they've gone rogue at this at this point. So from a public policy standpoint, we wouldn't say that's a joint venture, we'll say it's a conspiracy, and conspirators do not have a duty of loyalty or fiduciary duties to each other because we don't want to encourage that conduct. If they were operating under the French Foreign Legion, then there could be issues of dereliction of duty, conduct unbecoming, and this is where we need Thomas Harper to help us understand what exactly is the French Foreign Legion, and do they follow some version version of a military code of justice? Or are they mercenaries? Like that's something I've we we talk about the French Foreign Legion like we all know what it is, but what is it?

Jordon Huppert:

So well, I think given that their their stated purpose is to pillage a city of treasure that they have no particular right to, I'm not sure the military code of justice for desertion is going to be their big problem.

Joshua Gilliland:

Probably not. Probably not. I mean it's not like they're stealing from the Louvre in broad daylight.

Kris Butler:

Yeah, who would do that?

Jordon Huppert:

That would never happen.

Kris Butler:

It was a low average crew.

Joshua Gilliland:

I mean, no ladders were involved in this operation, so I mean it was daylight, but there's where was Nick Cage at that point, by the way? Well, I mean, if he's a there's a theory he is a mortal. You know, he could have been someplace else. All right, so back to the boat or the river boat. Rick throws Benny off the boat into the channel because he's upset at Benny's basically existence because he's a weasel that can't be trusted. But I think throwing somebody overboard is attempted murder.

Jordon Huppert:

We also sold him out for the uh the route to Hamanopra, too.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, yeah. It's well, how much of that was Evie's brother like not keeping his mouth shut to the other, yeah.

Kris Butler:

I don't know. I I don't know if that's a uh uh attempted murder. I I think at least here in Michigan it'd be assault with intent to do great bodily harm because you know uh maybe uh Rick didn't care whether he lived or died, but at least here in Michigan with an assault uh with intent to commit murder, you have to have that intent to murder. I I think he just wanted to hurt him and wanted to get rid of him and didn't really care whether he lived or died.

Jordon Huppert:

Uncle I'm not entirely convinced you could even say he wanted to hurt him.

Kris Butler:

I mean he was fine, yeah, yeah. But I feel like if you throw someone off a boat, that's like a high enough thing. It's like if you push someone off of like the top of a car or the top of a truck, like it is it's reasonable to assume they're gonna get hurt.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, I there's a drowning factor, there's a hypothermia factor, there's you know, falling on water can be like falling on concrete, you know.

Kris Butler:

There could be there could be crocodiles since they're in Egypt, you know.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, I I do think that the uh it could at least be manslaughter. Uh well if Benny died, this is a different yeah, but but he does survive because again, he's a cockroach that keeps living.

Jordon Huppert:

Um which it does make alongside of the river, yes.

Joshua Gilliland:

Which brings us to the the boat fire, and we we have a fight, so O'Connell does notice that, like, hey, there are wet footprints, meaning someone came on board, goes to EB's cabin, a fight ensues, and apparently there's no fire suppression control system on this vessel at all. It's not like fire hoses hadn't been invented by 1923. And and apparently the entire boat's made out of kindling, and so you know, a fire starts and then engulfs the entire vessel with rapid speed. As a boater, it's like, okay, like that sort of thing could happen. There's generally no shortage of volunteers to fight a fire on a ship because you're all in the same boat literally. And when there's a problem of that magnitude, people are quick to fight the fire, but that spreads fast and is out of control quickly. Who's liable for it? Because it's the fire starts because of a fight in a stateroom where someone's trying to either harm Evie or kill her. Gentlemen, what do you think?

Kris Butler:

I don't I don't think it matters unless there was an intent to do it because the magi are trespassing. And so what uh Okano and Evie are doing are self-defense or defense of others, um on a place they're legally allowed to be. So I I think any harm that comes from it extends from the magi.

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah. There's the other layer to this that I was noticing, which bumps back to what Josh was saying about ships not being quite that flammable. Um, you do see a couple of s uh shots of magi throwing torches around and spreading the fire. So like there's an if they're not liable for the original fire, they are certainly liable for uh spreading it. Oh yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, because now they're it's it's the arson with the intent to kill. Yeah, because that's the other weird part of the you know the the gift of these magi. They're uh they're they're not shy in trying to kill people. All right, we now get to the treasure hunting theft of cultural artifacts.

Jordon Huppert:

So here's before we jump to that, here's an interesting question. The magi know that these people are on a uh an archaeological expedition to this uh ancient secret city. They know that at least two of the people on the boat know how to get there, and they know that if any idiot reads this book, uh the world is going to end. Do they have some defense to any of this? Like is there the necessary imminence to to run a self-defense?

Joshua Gilliland:

But the theory It's not like someone's intentionally or knowingly reading from the book yet.

Kris Butler:

Yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

And so you're trying to get it's it's trying to kill someone because of a state secret and saying that the home the the death is justified in order to keep that information from getting out.

Kris Butler:

Yeah, because they don't even know for sure what they're gonna do. They could just get there and just be like, huh, we found it, all right, and then leave. You know, they could, even though they have people that have the ability to find it, they could easily get lost and never find it.

Jordon Huppert:

Or, you know, they're very, very clearly there for for archaeological purposes. You've got an Egyptologist on the American team and Evie on the team who are very clearly there to you know study it. Plus, you've got Rick and the rest of the Americans who are there to treasure hunt. I think there's a decent argument that they have some foreseeability that bad shit is going to happen if they get there.

Kris Butler:

Yeah, but I don't know how much of a foreseeability can be a defense when you know you they're so removed from it at that point. Yeah, you know, like if they're not explicitly, I mean, I know they're tasked to defend it, but by defend it by who? Someone that's been dead for thousands of years, you know, where where how long does that imminence is definitely their problem, yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

And merely being on the joint venture to find this cultural artifact does not necessarily mean that someone has justifiable homicide, that we're willing to kill people to keep this a secret. I think that's a problem. Yeah, because it's one thing to go, they got the book and they're about to resurrect emotep, and things are gonna get ugly. There's there's a defense of others argument at that point when the defense of the other is literally the entire planet. We're not there yet. Because they could be talked down with like you you all need to stop. But that is an interesting question. All right, is the warning for the curse act uh adequate? Because the curse war excuse me, the warning states exactly what would happen to everyone involved. It says don't read from the book. And uh here we go.

Jordon Huppert:

Well, it is clearly adequate enough for the people who read the warning to go, I guess we better not read that book then.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, they stop, yeah, yeah. They literally, and the Egyptologist is like holding on to it, going, Nope. Yeah, um, this can go to a museum. We're not gonna trigger the end of the world.

Jordon Huppert:

This belongs in a museum, it does.

Kris Butler:

Um, and and then the other thing that I should have I should have put in there, we got booby traps. You got booby traps, booby traps are illegal, they're no go.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, it's no defense of property, no lethal defense of property. So it's one thing to have an alarm that goes off, but when darts start shooting or you get beetles coming to eat your flesh, yeah, that are thousands of years old. That no, no. Moreover, just from a practical aspect, like I get having treasure effectively in a bank because you want to protect it and you want to be able to use it, but if no one can ever withdraw it, it's useless at that point. That seems the the treasure vault always seemed like a weird concept to me because you've made it unusable. Are you just gonna visit and hang out in the gold, or are you gonna use it to you know put roofs on schools? We're gonna build new streets with this. We're gonna make sure everyone's fed with this. Instead, we're just gonna hold hoard the wealth.

Jordon Huppert:

I want to look at my pretty stuff, yeah, yeah, and take it with me to the afterlife after I'm dead.

Joshua Gilliland:

But it's multi-generated.

Jordon Huppert:

No one else can look at my pretty stuff.

Kris Butler:

Yeah, it's mine. It's I'll charge you to look at my pretty stuff.

Joshua Gilliland:

I get that I get because there's at least a profit being made, and others are going to see it. But uh, and I'm all for property being a bundle of sticks, and you get to control what happens to the sticks. I I remember that well from property, but this is from a I'm with you.

Jordon Huppert:

I've never understood the idea. Like, I get the bundle of sticks theory, but I've never understood the idea of taking your bundle of sticks and putting it somewhere where it is entirely useless to everyone but you and largely useless to you.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, yeah, it's not like Scrooge McDuck going for a swim in the in the gold, it's everyone who got it's dead.

Jordon Huppert:

And the future generation Scrooge McDuck swimming in the gold, but yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, it's like everybody else is dead. This is of no use to the current citizens of that country because it's supposed to be national wealth. And I again, if if it only benefited pharaohs, and the pharaohs only added to it, they didn't take it out with we're we want a new boat, we need a new aqueduct system. It just it just seems weird to me that just that concept. I know I'm dispelling the entire concept of of the movie by attacking it because of principle. But again, it's like Lord of the or um uh the Hoppet. It's like smog is just gonna hang out on a room full of gold.

Jordon Huppert:

And I think the principle of the movie is different. I mean, you do want to hide your weapons of mass destruction that you have made a person into, and the ostensible keys to that in the books you have. That seems worth hiding in a very secure vault, not burying in the city, surrounded by random people, but yeah.

Kris Butler:

I'm I get that just go toss it in a vote volcano. Let's just be be done with it.

Joshua Gilliland:

We're gonna be very sure he's not coming back. Yeah, yeah. Fill them full of concrete, dump them off uh the continental shelf in 3,000 feet of water, we're good.

Kris Butler:

Like he's not it's only an issue in Transformers, yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

Again, only like 5,000 guys died on the aircraft carrier getting sunk. We're just gonna skip over that part. All right. That's a deep cut.

Kris Butler:

So all right.

Joshua Gilliland:

So uh after the the escape from the first escape from the city of the dead, was Jack's or excuse me, Jack, why do I keep doing all? Um, was Rick's contract performed because he makes a con you know comment about like, I'm done, we're getting out of here, which I think is the right answer. Answer time to go, bye-bye.

Kris Butler:

Got him to Haminoptra and got him out.

Jordon Huppert:

Yep. He performed. I'm not entirely sure the contract was even to get them out. I think it was just to get them there. That's true.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah. The you know, uh the the guys on Monster Party talked about event horizon, you know, and and there's the scene where you know the the the boarding crew watches you know camera crew footage of the prior crew all dying horribly, and the captain's response response is we're leaving.

Kris Butler:

That's yep, that's the right move.

Jordon Huppert:

Yep.

Joshua Gilliland:

No. Uh uh, but the problem pay me enough for this.

Jordon Huppert:

Bye.

Joshua Gilliland:

I'm going to London. So yeah. Uh but here, yeah, I do think his contract was performed. And now it's, you know, he's a team player with Evie and her brother, and good times, good times. We next have so apparently there's an RAF pilot left over from World War One that's just hanging out waiting to die.

Jordon Huppert:

And he's he seems to be staffing some random garrison that's still there. But he's the only staff.

Kris Butler:

Which I think I it kind of makes sense given that uh the last time that uh France was in Egypt in any kind of combat was 1890s, and this guy seems like he's in his like late 60s or early 70s, that you know he would have been left over from that.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, yeah, but it's he's supposed to be from the UK.

Jordon Huppert:

Yeah, he's very distinctly British.

Kris Butler:

Oh, yeah, he was. I forgot about that.

Joshua Gilliland:

And and so if you're a World War One pilot, which is the teens, so let's just say 1914-15, and airplanes were new. So he's been there for let's just say nine years. Like he would have been an old pilot to begin with, so you know, with airplane technology being new, and uh, and maybe that happened again. We're far enough away that there are I I don't I think all the World War I vets are now gone.

Kris Butler:

Oh British troops started in Egypt in 1882, so he could have been in there from any time after that and just spent chilling and became a pilot, and which is again weird for you only got one guy at the garrison.

Joshua Gilliland:

What dances with wolves bonkers-ness is that we're sending one guy, um yeah, uh the British maybe it was a just we need to maintain our our presence here, but that's but that seems inadequate. It's like why not four or five? Like, because then the one dude's always on watch, the one dude's maintaining his aircraft by himself, so there's no ground crew, there's no support staff, it's there was nothing to do, they weren't expecting him to do anything.

Jordon Huppert:

But I mean, you still left him an airplane is somewhat of a mystery.

Kris Butler:

Maybe, maybe he pissed someone off. No, like this is gonna be your assignment. Yep, this is where you're gonna die.

Joshua Gilliland:

Whoops, uh sure. But again, it's weird that I'm my own air crew.

Kris Butler:

Yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

Um, because it's like here's the jobs for multiple people, and we just got Lenny stuck there, you know, in the desert, waiting for the day he can finally die in peace. That that's a that's a lot for King and Country. So we get to the you know, the big fight. There's uh that's too weird to get into with it's self-defense and and defense of others in order to save the day. Uh there's the the age-old issue of is you know fighting a mummy desecration of a corpse.

Kris Butler:

Probably I don't know, the corpse can fight back.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, that's the thing.

Kris Butler:

It's like only if you lose because the other thing is, I mean, technically, when the corpse like throws a punch, technically, it you know, it's an old corpse, it could be breaking just by hitting me. That that's the corpse's fault. But also, if he's alive, doesn't he get culpability back because he's still living and he's you know, uh how isn't he more alive than dead at a certain point after he takes enough organs and body parts from people?

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, so there are multiple mummies at at play here. So we have emotep, which is super being dangerous, killing people, and and in gruesome ways. You then get his priests popping out of the ground, and they're loyal to him. And then when you get the other book opened, the the good guys are in ultimately in control of those soldiers who've been reanimated, but it appears they don't have free will anymore, they're just puppets, which is weird. But again, like if they're dead, it's like okay, so the soul isn't there, so you're just dealing with a corpse at that point that you can command. It's weird. The law's not designed for fighting mummies. Yeah, nope. We don't have a mummy. Yeah, we don't have a mummy epidemic, you know.

Kris Butler:

The uh I'm calling my congresswoman.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah. Uh uh, governor, you know, there's California. We just had a bunch of laws signed into effect and a you know, bunch vetoed because the legislature was busy. I don't want to get into what was approved and what was not, but there was a lot of everything that that was on the table.

Kris Butler:

None of I'll write a memo for Big Gretsch. That's what I'll put the intern on in my office.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, it's like she, Madam Governor. We want to talk about the mummy problem. Yeah, I see.

Kris Butler:

This is what uh a law professor needs to do for you know uh constitutional law or something like that. Just be like, all right, what constitutional rights do mummies have? Write a memo on it, convince me.

Joshua Gilliland:

It's if they're dead, they're like a cultural artifact and there's desecration of corpse rules that kick into play. Um like you shouldn't take them from another country and bring them here as an exhibit. It's one thing if that country does a world tour with said mummy. I always felt that was in weird poor taste, but that's my spin on it. And we we don't again we don't want uh Native Americans put on display. I mean, like that's just sick and wrong and would violate our desecration of the corpse laws in various states, like that would not be acceptable. But this but when they get up and they start fighting, that's a new one, and luckily not one we have to deal with yet. There would be people to develop practice areas, yeah. Were you a loved one injured by a mummy?

Kris Butler:

Like mummy thelioma.

Joshua Gilliland:

Well done, dude. Bravo, you you win tonight. You win check mate, all you clear the board, all you. Um brilliant.

Kris Butler:

This is just

Joshua Gilliland:

be the title like have you or a loved one suffered from a mummy thelioma you may be entitled to compensation I mean we know where the deep pocket is we want some of that okay so anything else from this 1999 classic uh legal no but uh it does uh make me laugh every time I watch this movie that um the curator character uh when Evie and Jonathan walk into his office and he's got the map and he's uh looking at it and he's talking about how he doesn't speak in ancient Egyptian he is uh the same actor uh Eric Avari plays Kasuf in the Stargate franchise speaks ancient Egyptian and it makes me laugh every time because there's only what four years difference between those two movies um yeah I think maybe uh the movie Stargate may have been 92 no no I show Stargate was coming on right around when this movie came out and he's in that too got small world have either of you been on the mummy ride at Universal Studios yep classic ride uh Jordan I have not okay I think it's one of the best roller coasters ever it's it's fantastic a backwards drop you expect it to go forward and it goes backwards and I I went with a bunch of friends after a legal conference in Orlando and one of my colleagues was so terrified as soon as that happened her hand came down on my thought uh like leg as a claw and sunk in oh man uh um she apologized afterwards but blood curdling scream like it was it was worth it but wow uh I haven't been I don't know if they have that the California one uh it's been a long time since I've been to to Universal in California so I'm due for a trip but uh yeah it's an incredible ride it costs 40 million dollars to make wow wow for location or just uh I uh let's see uh this retrieved article uh da da no yeah they uh I think to to repurpose the old ET uh ride they spent forty dollars on like building it out and uh doing all the effects fascinating so when I did Orlando we also did et so I think Orlando still has both yeah um but yeah it's worth a trip to Universal to to go do that oh yeah and then now you got Epic Universal is there it's even more but oh I would so love to go do that um I will do it but uh I will fortunately get to do it a month from now Orlando or California Orlando nice very nice so well that's a lot for this movie and uh a lot of good legal issues and uh it was again it's a fun movie there are I I've seen social media posts of people doing photo ops with uh Frazier at cons and people in different cosplay from the mummy movies and it's just like that's adorable I like it just uh yeah it's just a lot of love for for the actors and and the story so again it's just it's just fun so yeah yeah so it's a fun franchise yeah I like I wasn't a fan of the third one as much just because of yeah but uh the second one is a is a good time uh second one is amazing yeah you can't have the lead actress go like there's no way I have a 20 year old son no I'm out and she was right yeah um that's silly you're gonna give me a lot of gray hair uh make this like the 1950s no that's weird uh on the flip side uh yeah the second one's a lot of fun and we'll need to do that too so so that for everyone thanks for tuning in uh this again continues our spooky season analysis there's a little more coming and uh uh Chris and Jordan thanks for helping tonight and for everyone out there uh wherever you are stay safe stay healthy stay spooky

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Joshua Gilliland

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