075 Coaches as Father Figures: How To Identify Great Coaches & Sports Mentors

Fathers Day Episode! This weeks episode the tables are turned and Austin takes over the podcast and interviews me, so buckle up! We talk about my experience with my various coaches and mentors and how those relationships shaped my athletic career and impacted my personal development.

In this episode Austin and I discuss:

• Red flags to look for in a coach or mentor
• How to tell if your relationship with your coach or mentor is healthy
• My journey with dysfunctional coaches vs healthy coaches
• The long term impact of having a healthy coach/player relationship for an athlete

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Kerri

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Transcript

 I'm Kerri Bicskei, professional athlete, licensed therapist and mindset coach. I created Ready, set, mindful as an online mental health resource for athletes and high performers like you. And this is the Ready Set Mindful podcast.

 Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Ready, set Mindful podcast. I'm your host, Kerri Bicskei. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold up. I'm your host, Austin Bicskei RSM crew. What's going on on. Okay, so for this so episode, I have a special guest, my lovely, amazing roommate. What's going on everybody?

Austin Bicskei. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Pleasure to be here. Pleasure to be back. At the cabin? Yes, we're doing it. Doing it live. We are at favorite place. We're at upstate the Lake Cabin in Vermont. We are here for the month. We are super excited to be here. It's a very relaxing, beautiful place to be.

So yeah, really excited to do the podcast. From here, my best rocker ready to ask questions. Let's go. We figured that this would be a fun change of a style of episode for you guys. So this episode, Austin, is gonna be tables turned, asking me some questions. Um, we're gonna be talking about coaches as mentors.

This is our Father's Day special addition. , since coaches, male coaches in particular have played such a.  Influential role in my  athletic career, and my personal development.  And they really impact athletes, , in their athletic careers. So I really thought that we would take this opportunity to focus on coaches and the impact they have for athletes for this episode.

So, get ready, buckle up. All right. So I think this will actually gimme good perspective, uh, some insight to you as well. Maybe things I don't know, so, ooh, we'll find out. Let's, let's see. The relationship may develop in here from roommate too. Maybe I'll get a ring. Maybe I'll upgrade from roommate to boyfriend official.

Here we go. We'll see some cards. Yeah, so Father's Day coming up. First off, don't forget your father's. Don't be that last minute planner. Go out and buy something, or better yet, make something. Or take your dad out for an experience. Yeah, there you go. Or if you want some merch or if you want some merch to make your dad look good, feel good.

And be good RSM shop. Yeah, we do have a Father's Day promo. 15% off for dad's this Father's Day. So it's dad 15, , at ready set Mindful slash Etsy. So make sure to go check that out if you haven't planned anything for your pops just yet. So, all right, let's get into it. All right, let's dive into it. So I think it's really important, you know, father's Day, uh, everybody starts reflecting, right?

So we think about. All the, the fathers in our life. And, and I want to caveat that for some people, a father or a father figure may not be their, their blood father, right? It may be somebody that, uh, just is a huge aspect of their life. We're talking just that male model figure, that role model, right? Um, so that's really where we're gonna focus on, and I think it's important to give the audience a background overview of, you know, How you grew up and your fatherly experiences and what you experienced as a child and how that evolved into, uh, your later on playing career.

So I think if you're open to it, we'll give the audience a, a background overview of your father's situation. Yeah. So my. Situation was that I was raised by my mom. There were four of us kids, five of us now, , but four of us growing up, and we were all raised by my single mom. So I actually grew up without a father figure.

So I really relied on my coaches, my male coaches in particular, to have mold. My idea. Of what a healthy male figure looked like for, for me in my life. So I would,  frequently go to dinners at my, my friends, my teammates, places, and I would watch their interactions with their dad and kind of got my idea for what a male role model should be like from them.

And then also from. The coaches that I grew up with. So I grew up doing gymnastics and, uh, basketball. I didn't do volleyball until way later on. So I had, , one basketball coach in particular, Mr. Bonilla, David Bonilla. He was an amazing guy. , kind of a hard ass, and he really took a, a liking to me.

And, , , I was in eighth grade. I think that was my, my first. Really initial introduction to what a healthy male coach looks like. I knew that  coaches yell at you, they demand a lot of you. , but they're also really kind and they care about you and they support you. So, so would you say, , eighth grade is really, you know, when your athletic career kind of started, I guess, when you started taking things a little more seriously?

Yeah, I would say so. I had a gross spurt. In fifth grade because up until then I was doing gymnastics. I was pretty serious. Competitive gymnast from eight to from eight to 12. And then I had a big growth spurt and they kicked me outta the gym and they told me that I was too.

That's right. Too much of a liability and goofy car. Could be a gymnast. I know. It was so sad. I fought so hard to, to stay in the gym that they said, you know, get this girl basketball or volleyball. I was devastated, of course. And then I picked up a basketball and that's when I kind of had my introduction to this, this other coach, David Bonilla, and he taught me some, you know, some basketball skills that were much needed at my height.

I was just like a gumby, you know, awkward kid and needed a lot of guidance and, growing up my, my mom worked,  so much. She had four of us kiddos to support.  Yeah. So that, that's really my next question is, , it sounds like eighth grade was your first exposure to kind of a male role model.

Mm-hmm. Father figure type of person. Yeah. But up to that, I mean, how were you, how do you think you were affected by not having, Presence in your life to kind of oversee, you know, your athletics and your, , morality and your drive cuz your mom was so busy trying to just keep up with Yeah. , keeping a roof over four kids' heads.

I mean, goodness, that's task on its own, but Yeah. You know, you didn't have a lot of supervision growing up, so how do you think that affected you up until your eighth grade exposure? Yeah, I mean, Again, I think, yeah, my mom was such a strong, independent woman and super capable and did her best to provide for us, but she wasn't around a lot.

And so I would frequently be unsupervised and that's when I would, I, I really craved going over to my teammates houses and, , my friends' homes and having family dinners with, with their dads and with their moms and with their siblings. And I craved that. That engagement, still trying to fill the, the family norm there that fill that gap?

Yeah. I knew something was missing. I knew that I wanted a little bit more of a holistic, , structure and routine. I've always been really, really big on structure and routine. I knew that I, I thrive in that environment, and so being unsupervised when I was younger, I was always, just seeking that out.  Some kids would be  excited about the chaos, but I really didn't enjoy it that much. I was, I was really wanting to be connected and engaged with, and so, yeah, I think I latched on to a lot of my teammates, friends, families, and was just out of the house a lot when I was unsupervised and trying to connect.

, and get guidance and molding and, and coaching and, you know, you're not running the streets at 7-Eleven. Yeah, there was, there was that too. You gotta take advantage of some of that. You look fun. Oh my gosh. I told Austin what, some of my childhood staples were not, you know, we grew up with no money.

We were. Super, super poor growing up and I, we didn't grow up with a ton and so I, I was joking slash serious. , we'd go to the 7-Eleven and then get Fun Dip and Mountain Dew. I've come a long way now that we're pretty holistic and, you know, organic with what we eat and put in our bodies, but I'm like, oh my gosh, this stuff I used to put my body.

It was disgusting. But what are you to do? Do you, do you think that made you more of a competitor? Not, you know, kind of growing up like that? You know, you had to compete for everything. I mean, nothing was really handed to you. Do you think it molded you in that way? I mean, you don't really.

Fully understand what that means. When you're younger, , I just knew that something was missing, that I wanted more. Yeah, I knew that I didn't really have the insight to be able to understand how it was impacting me long term. I knew I just wanted more, but as for the competitor piece, what I will say is that joining the game late, As far as my introduction to basketball and volleyball, , cuz I had been a gymnast and yes, those skills really helped me and helped develop me as an athlete.

But I started behind in basketball and volleyball and it was my ego slash my. My drive that really like, really impacted my, my competitive, , my competitiveness because I was like, it's not fun. Anyone who's an athlete listening to this, it's not fun to feel like you're in a deficit starting the hole.

It's embarrassing. You want those skills, you know, you need to catch up. So I was constantly just, Grinding, , trying to, trying to catch up, asking my coaches for one-on-one time after practices after games, what can I work on? I'd, I'd go to them with like my journal and they'd be like, oh my God, here she comes again.

But like, I was desperate for coaching and for, for mentorship,  at such a young age.

So, yeah. Yeah, that's where, that's where the competitive nature comes from. Constantly feeling like I was behind, , and needed to catch up. , and not only catch up, but to get ahead. I was like, okay, I'm at a, I'm in the hole a little bit. , and I feel like I. I'm at a deficit from not only having the skills basketball and volleyball skills,  but I have a single mom and less resources.

We have a ton of money, like how can I kind of compensate for these lack of resources with some of the skills that I can maybe, you know, provide and maybe I can provide for my family in some way and help them out at some point. Sure. So you're, you're striving, I mean, you're, you're hungry for mentorship, right?

So we fast forward to the eighth grade. What does that look like for you? So your first mentor puts a basketball in your hand. I mean, talk about him, talk about the next mentor. Let's start popping up in your life and how that affected you. Yeah. Yeah. David Ette, he was, yeah, he was the basketball coach. As I said, he was, he was the first mentor that made a really big dent, really big impact in my life.

, and then, From eighth grade, you know, I started playing volleyball in eighth grade. , and then I entered high school and my freshman year I had a male coach who really impacted me. His name was Mike Soko. You've met him. He's an amazing man. , yeah, my freshman year it was kind of interesting because I had switched high school, so it was, I don't know if I've ever talked about this before.

I think you know this, but I started at, at one high school, Pullman High School, and I was on varsity, and then I had transferred to Gonzaga Prep, , where I ended up graduating from. But as I transferred, I. , I went from varsity to the sea team, which is, , so you go from the very top to the very bottom.

So it, cause I missed tryouts, so it was, I mean, a devastating blow to, to my confidence and, and it was just, man, it was a really like, trying year for sure. , and so I met Mike Soko. He was, he was a coach. , volleyball coach at that time, and he kind of took me under his wing, saw that I , had a ton of potential, was maybe frustrated with being on the C team.

, I was really coachable and so he really, yeah, he, he just, he was always giving me feedback. I was always asking him for feedback, coming to him again after practices and asking what else I can do to become better and, , We started having coffee. After school, 

like he was just such an amazing like mentor and coach and, and still to this day, like, I am so grateful to have him in my life. He's been, such an amazing resource for me. So these, these two individuals were, were role models for you throughout high school? Throughout high school, David, coach Bonilla, he kind of ended in eighth grade.

I didn't have much contact with him, but Mike has been someone who's throughout, you know, I've known him from 15 to like 37 now. So he's okay. Yeah, he's been in my life for a long time. So then what do you, what did you see in Mike, like from the beginning all the way through? What were some positive attributes that made him a good role model in your life?

Yeah. , he always talked about meditation at that point. You know, it's kind of funny, uh, at, at that point I didn't really know.

 What mindfulness was or meditation. I'm just thinking like, oh, there's this guy, he has this journey, and he is always talking about how helpful his spiritual path is to what he does on the daily. , now looking back, I'm like, oh my gosh, if I only would've listened to some of the shit he was trying to talk to me about and encouraged me to do what I was.

Younger, I'd have such a head start, but that's the way it goes. Right. , but I really appreciate it. He was, he's such an active listener. He was so engaging. He was super invested in my dreams of wanting to get a college vo, you know, get a college volleyball scholarship and play professionally. I knew I wanted to do that when I was 14 years old, and he was really the only one that would listen to me.

I had really, to be fair, I didn't bring that up to many people. My mom didn't really have a ton of time to go to my games or talk to me about my dreams and goals. And he was really like that person to ask me that question, Hey, what do your goals look like? What, what do you think you can do with this sport?

Where do you wanna go? You know? Okay. So he kind of guided you? Yeah. He asked the questions, you know, he, he asked the questions and he laid out a framework for. That's always been my thing. , I thrive on routine and structure and, and framework, and then I could fill in the gaps with grinding out hard work.

Yeah. You know? But it helps to have somebody with you supporting you, listening to you, keeping you accountable. And at that age, especially like 14, 15,  I needed that framework. I couldn't quite see what I needed to do to get to that point. And so he was super helpful in, you know, he's, he's, he had helped other girls get college scholarships.

He'd seen the trajectory, like what you would need, what it would take to get to that point. So he kind of knew that path. Mm-hmm. And, but he let you figure it out. Yeah, he did. He, he listened. He was supportive. Yeah. I, I really admired his spiritual and admired his spiritual.  Life and commitment like that was really cool to me.

 The way that he incorporated mindfulness into his daily life and now I think it's even cooler cause he is done it for such a long time. He's like lifelong meditator, just the coolest guy, triathlete at like, I don't even know how old he is right now.  68, 70.

Just a badass. So kill. Yeah. He's so great. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, if you don't have a, dad in your life and I didn't, I was really just craving that male mentorship and like that kindness and that engagement and yeah, that leadership that I just wasn't getting at home at that time. Okay. Okay. That's good.

So going through high school, you had two really good role models. One that kind of stuck with you out throughout high school mm-hmm. And then you're on to the next step. Right. And you get picked up for, you won volleyball heading off to Eastern. So tell me about your experiences there. I mean, Mike's not gonna follow you to college, so He did, although I'm sure he kept, yeah.

I'm sure he came to games and, uh, kept in touch and always checked in on you as a good, uh, you know, mentor and role model. Does. But, uh, what'd you run into in college? I mean, young, wild and free carry from the streets of seven 11 playing division one volleyball, young and reckless. I mean, what goes on, what happens?

Do you find more mentorship there, your coaches and players? What happens? Yeah. No, to the mentorship in college. Why at Eastern? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So when I went to Eastern, I. Entered into this world where it's obviously really scary for any high school athlete, , to go from big fish, small pond into, , small fish, big pond.

And that was, that was a trip for me. So it was already, , some anxiety with that. , and my coach there. Was not a great mentor. He was a very manipulative,  emotionally abusive. We're talking from freshman to sophomore. Freshman to sophomore, yeah. I did end up transferring.

So this is from 2004 to uh, 2007. Okay, so let's hit on that then. I think it's important. So, you know, your, let's hit on your first experiences with this coach and then. All these talk about these red flags that maybe started popping off that the sky was just not a great mentor, not a good, , person to be in your life as a fill out role.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.   One of the first things I noticed when I. Entered into my freshman year, we had this triathlon, which is ironic now because I love triathlons. But at that time I was terrified to do a triathlon. It was a mini, it was a mini try.  And it was to kind of see who, who was in shape over the summer and who wasn't.

So it was 18 of us coming in and there was like a top 10. And then if you were in the bottom eight, you had to do 5:00 AM you know, conditioning.  So there was a big incentive to  do well in the triathlon. And so that was my first introduction. I had known this coach, , a little bit.

He came to some of my club, some of my club tournaments,  but I, I didn't know him too well. But yeah, this triathlon was my first introduction to him. So I saw how he was interacting with all of the girls and he was very,  demeaning in his comments and that was definitely like, Now that I look back on it, yeah, it was a, it was a red flag, okay.

Of the comments he was making toward the girls.  If you weren't doing well, less encouraging, more humiliating and demeaning, which is definitely a red flag when you're looking at coaches, right? You want coaches to hold you accountable. Allow you to have ownership, but also there's a difference between accountability and just embarrassing somebody for sure.

Especially when you're a freshman who's already nervous to be there. Oh, 100%. Yeah. So that, that was my first interaction, , with him. And then f fast forward to a few games later my freshman year, , I remember we had lost to. Sacramento State, and they were our rival at that time. And it was a really close game.

We'd lost in five sets by two. , it was, one of those Heartbreakers. So obviously everyone on our team was feeling devastated that we, we lost such a close game to our rival. Um, and I remember our coach made us, we would always bring these harnesses on our away games, and we had 'em at home too.

Equally devastating Harnesses for what? Harnesses like, like you'd put on, so you'd grab a partner and you would have a bungee that clicked, right? Like little seatbelt bungee. And so you'd click in and then one partner would start on the line and your other partner would be behind you, like you were a horse.

Like so your, your one partner who's behind is resistance, playing resistance, and the other partner is doing a sprint. So we would do those. 10 times, you know, to the net back to the net back, you know, 10 times. And then we'd switch partners. So mind you, we, we did that right after, like, immediately after we slapped the other team's hands, um, you know, did the words and all that.

And then we would, you know, he'd say harnesses and we'd get on the line. So that's before fans had left. The other team hadn't left yet. So everybody's out there, everyone's walking fans. The other team's out there, like, he was humiliating. He's like, you gotta suck. Get the harnesses on, get line, get the harnesses on it.

Just, that's pretty humiliated. It was totally demeaning, very humiliating, scare tactic. So  there were certain words that we. Were, that we were cud to, to respond to. Right? Like you're kind of conditioned as,, to have this fear of getting on the line and harnesses and these keywords, which are, it's so terrible for an athlete to, you know, To have that.

, so amongst those red flags were other comments he would make. So the, the demeaning and humiliating comments aside, there were really sexually inappropriate comments. He was, again, like this man in his early forties and we were 18 to 22 years old and he's making comments about our bodies and what our underwear we were wearing and super inappropriate stuff.

Yeah, that, I mean, looking back at that, It makes me so angry and so fired up because you've totally taken advantage of his position of power. And if you're an athlete and you're in that position, your playing time is being held over your head. No one else is wanting to say anything. You haven't quite found your voice yet, your confidence.

It's a male versus a younger female. , so there's a big power, , discrepancy there and. This fear of if you said something, would, would anyone have your back or would he just bench you or, so, because, because of this coach's, um, essentially his ethics and morals and his coaching style that affected your ability to play volleyball.

Oh, all of us. Yeah, absolutely. To an ef uh, to an effective level. Right. So you're not mm-hmm. You're not really able to maximize your ability as an athlete. Yeah, absolutely. I think, I mean, as an athlete, when you are. When you're playing in the constant state of fear, right? Um, fear of the harnesses coming out, fear of, I mean, he would also make subs, you know, substitutions one and done.

You make one mistake and you, you're, you're done. Right? So it's, it's challenging to, to play free and play relaxed and to not have a ton of anxiety at that level when you're just kind of always looking over on the, on the sideline to see his reaction to things. It was like we were a bunch of,  scared girls. So you're, so, you're feeling, I mean, you've seen both sides of the spectrum, right? So you grew up no father figure at all, right? No male, no role model, nothing, right? Mm-hmm. And all of a sudden in high school, you come into this, this guy Mike, who is just the best guy ever, he fills that need for you.

And you learn what's kind of right in, in that, , That figure, right? So he's kind, he listens to you, he motivates you in all the right ways, and he makes you a better person, right? He's respectful. Respectful, he's respectful, and then all of a sudden you leave that and you go to college and you see all these red flags of what wrong looks like, and, and that male role model, figure in the sky and braiding you guys, , inappropriate sexual comments.

Innuendos, whatever coaching styles are not helping you be a better person. Mm-hmm. Um, so you're really seeing all sides of it. So, yeah. So what happened after, uh, did you have any other experiences you wanted to talk about in college or? Yeah. You know, it ended up as I, you know, I ended up transferring, a few of the other girls ended up transferring due to his behavior.

He eventually ended up getting, transferring to another school as well. Getting fired for inappropriate conduct and  so eventually things worked themselves out there for sure. ,  so from there I went to University of New Mexico,  came in as a junior 

had a really healthy, , coaching staff there. So again, it was nice to be like, oh my gosh, breath. What were the automatic differences that you saw? Boundaries, respect,  healthy communication patterns, just the, the boundaries and the clarity with the coaching roles. Right. It's really confusing for athletes and for kids too.

Just in that instance when your parents or your coaches try to be your friend or they try to be like, too cool. And it's very confusing when those lines are blurred because ultimately they have this authority over you. They, can take your. Your, your car away or ground you, or you're playing time, right?

Like there's this power differential there. So it's, it's so helpful for athletes to have that clarity in that coaching role. So when I got to New Mexico, , we had our assistant coach, we go to her for any issues with our,  relationships. School-wise, like that's her anything with our position,  our position-wise, we go to our assistant coach.

If it's a really big issue, we go to our head coach. That was all really clearly laid out for us. So I think,  athletes respond really well to boundaries and clarity and structure. You have to tell them what you know, what to do and what's expected of them. In order for that to.  Be followed, right?

But I think that coaching staff at Eastern was so disorganized, so chaotic, and so, Inappropriate and dysfunctional that I just had none of that. So it was just a breath of fresh air when I went to University of New Mexico and it was, you know, a lot more money, a bigger school,  bigger conference.

So everything was just more stakes and so more organization. It was really nice to get that, , contrast. So as you, as you as an athlete, you had a more stable environment. And that enabled you to perform better. Oh, for sure. Have the, a better state of mind. Yeah. And be a better athlete. Right, right. And eventually that led you into playing professional sports, right?

 As an athlete, you can't. Perform when you're in a constant state of fear or panic or anxiety. Yeah. And so you have to, in order to have a chance of you performing well, you have to figure out how to regulate your, nervous system. Right. And so when you're constantly being,  in fight or flight, , you're just never able to, to really thrive.

You're just trying to keep your head above water and not piss someone off essentially. Right? Yeah. When you have a coach like that, so that. Man, it's, it's, , having a coach like that can really drive athletes away and turn athletes, , off from their sports. And I know a lot of girls that I played with that just stopped playing altogether, kind of ruined, ruined the sport for them.

And me and one of my other teammates continued to play for. 10 plus years. My other , teammate Brittany Page  she was treated very poorly on this team, , and really picked on by this coach and, and told she was terrible and she ended up being the, captain of the Canadian national team.

Like she's a badass. So  Brittany and I ended up having these amazing careers. Despite this really dysfunctional coach well, that shows some resiliency to those athletes, but it also shows, uh, how much it can affect your, the outcome of your life, of just having somebody, right.

Uh, a role model in your life that is, is toxic or negative. Mm-hmm. Um, which unfortunately a lot of people are in. Right. So what advice would you give to people that are in that type of, or. Situation or maybe are younger and have a role model in their life that is negative, how can they approach that?

Maybe get out of that or overcome that? Yeah, I think that's a good question. I think trusting your gut is really important too, and it's really important to have somebody in your, , network. Of support that you can bounce things off of like, Hey, this didn't feel right to me, or this felt like it was inappropriate,  just putting,  things out there.

Cause I think sometimes we. Suffer in silence a little bit and just kind of take, take comments and normalize comments, , and behavior that, , isn't cool, it's not appropriate. Right. And things are way, way better and way different now today than, than when I was, you know, coaches got away with a lot more 2004 for sure.

, but yeah, I would say.  Have somebody on your team that you can go to for support. Put up a boundary. Sometimes it's really hard to talk to your coach one-on-one, especially if there's like a big age gap or power differential. You're,  younger athlete, they're in this position of power.

Is there someone a go-between that you can have kind of mediate that maybe you can let them know what your concerns are?  What you're experiencing and they can go to that person. So that's, that would be my recommendation because, , I do see a lot of athletes where they have issues. They,  have trouble setting boundaries and it's because they're very intimidated by the presence of their coach or consequences, what might happen to them if they do speak up.

For sure. Yeah. Right. I mean, it's a very intimidating position to be in when you have, uh, when you're younger, first off, you don't have the life experience to deal with problems like that. Right. Yeah. Um, So definitely a challenging situation to, uh, confront a person like that, , a coach because it can affect your life, your playing time, all of those things.

Right, right. Um, but I think it really needs to be done because if you think you really have to think about the long term, how is this going to affect me, this coach's negative influence on my life, or this male role model's negative influence on my life, how is that gonna affect me for the rest of my days?

And do I need to get out of this right now? Yeah. And it's a really tough position. I mean, I talked to a lot of parents about that too, like my club coach or my, you know, my coach hates my daughter or my kid, or we don't get along with this person or that person. And so I do really wanna meet, make very clear, like the situation that I experienced in, in college was, was very,  extreme,  And there are other variations of that that happen absolutely.

Where yes, you should exit a club or you should,  leave a team, you should transfer. Those are, those are big decisions, but that there's oftentimes like pretty shitty behavior that, that, that makes you make those big decisions. Right. , so on the other end of the spectrum, you. Have to know when to ride something out and to have a little bit of resilience as well, right?

Because if there's absolutely, if there's a coach that's not talking to you in the way that you wanna be talked to, or like he yells too much or like he is, , I feel like he picks on me, or this, or that, you really have to, that's, that's where it's really important to, maybe not talk to a, a parent or a teammate, maybe like a journal, see something more in you or.

Recognizes, uh, talent there that he wants to expose, and he's just a little harder on you for that. Well, yeah. I think in, in order to get clarity on it, I think. Journaling, making a list, uh, and really holding yourself accountable  is this something that truly does have evidence behind it?

 Or am I leading with my feelings here? I feel like he's being mean to me. I feel like he's picking on me. I feel this. Okay. If you can kind of step outside of that, cuz you're always gonna feel like, Your feelings are, are in the driver's seat when it's happening to you. Cuz you're just kind of seeing red.

No one likes to go picked on or embarrassed and practice . But outside of that, give yourself some space. When you're at home a little bit further removed from the situation, then you can truly have the, the clarity of like, okay, this feels shitty. Why?  What is happening here?

Is it just me and did I just not get a ton of sleep that night? Like what other factors could there be?  That can be happening where  I'm experiencing this,  insert feeling here type thing. Um, cuz that's important too.

Cause I do think a lot of athletes, , expect their coaches to adapt to them and it's really hard for coaches to,  treat each and every player very individually. Absolutely. I mean, that is definitely one thing you have to recognize is you're in the coach's system mm-hmm.

And you're a part of their program and you gotta fit into that program. Right. Right. You have to listen to the coach and he's gonna be hard on you. So that's a great, that's a great point. Of knowing how to recognize, is a coach just being hard on me because it's his program and he has that admission to win?

Or is he genuinely a bad person being inappropriate? Right. I think your, I think your college coach at Eastern is a great example of that. You know for sure. Uh, you have an individual who not only his coaching methods were, were not great, but he was being, you know, sexually inappropriate. Yeah. Um, and exhibiting a lot of other red flags outside of just being hard on you.

Yeah. Uh, yeah. So many, yeah, so many red flags. Yeah, so, so pay attention to those. I mean, the obvious red flags that you, you, you wrote that out for two years. I wrote that out for, for three years. So you, so seriously. Yeah. Three years. Three years. And shout out to, yeah. I mean, shout out to my teammates who also wrote that out with me.

I mean, Chelsea Cross, my dear friend, she was a man. She, she, She was an amazing support and resource for me during that time, um, because she did come from a really stable home and she,  was super grounded and she knew who she was and she had great morals and values and ethics and she was always the one to say it.

This is wrong. Simon was pretty, probably pretty automatic for her to pick up on, you know? Absolutely. Because she had that foundation of knowing how her dad was and her dad was a standup. Guy. Yeah. And her mom was amazing and she had this foundation, she was like, so it was even more clear to her, like, oh my gosh, this is so not right on so many levels.

And so I was always leaning into her. And we joke about that a lot actually. Like why we were attracted to each other as friends, because I was just like wild and free, like, you know. Friend, and she was like, my stability, my rock, , my foundation,  I was always like, Chelsea, what do I do?

You're my compass. , because she had such a stable upbringing and so I really trusted her. And so, yeah, we all had such a rough time with that experience. But I think like when you're a part of a team that really makes you, it bonds you and makes you stronger, you know? Um, but I, I never want anyone to have to go through that experience cuz it's terrible.

But yeah, as, as much as you're coaching, you know, coaches can be terrible. It's on the athlete to really question what's happening, build clarity around that, um, figure out. What's happening and how it's affecting you and what your action step is to, you know, to get out of that situation or to maybe you need to endure it.

Maybe that there's a lesson in, in staying and adapting to a system that's uncomfortable. Um, but obviously if it's inappropriate and you know, and the behavior is unacceptable, um, for all the red flags we listed, then yeah, you need to leave that situation. Yeah. So, In the moment though, what were some things you did to deal with those situations?

I mean, how did you, how'd you manage that? Yeah, I think I took, uh, I always recommend this to my clients that I work with too. I'm like, take a bathroom break, like take as many as you need throughout practice, because I remember using saying that little outlet. Yeah, it's a little outlet, like, I need to just go and breathe right now because yeah, I'm getting too worked up.

Like he's, you know, he just threw the ball over there. He just swore at me or did this, and I'm just like, I, myself was about to walk out of practice. Um, and you know why I was like, I need to go to the bathroom and just collect myself. I didn't really know what breath work was at that time for mindfulness.

I wasn't using that until my first year playing pro. , well I saw my sports psychologist my, my sophomore year actually at Eastern. So I was learning some things, but  yeah, I would go to the, I would go to the bathroom and, and do some breath work and then come back and try to, Be neutral and be able to get through practice.

And then after practice, I mean my teammates were everything. Like we would just kind of commiserate with each other and build each other up. , give each other confidence and pep talks. And we never really told anyone else what was happening. Cause it was just so, you know, you didn't feel like anyone would believe us really.

You know? Yeah. So you lean a lot on your friends as your support system, your teammates. , and just try to take those breaks during practice and prior to practice. I remember pumping myself up like, okay, you got this. It's okay. , whatever happens, you're a good person. Like, because he would diminish our, you know, your, our character.

Which is one thing I just. Talk about so much with my clients. Like separating the athlete from you as a person, right? Like, yes, maybe you are having a shitty practice or a shitty game, but that does not mean that you're a shitty person. Yeah. , and  that coach would constantly connect your performance, your shitty performance, your shitty practice to you being a shitty person.

And once that happens, it's messy. That's dangerous. Cuz then that leaves with you long after. You're off the court. Right. And you start to internalize I'm a shitty person. Yeah. Not good. It starts to affect your personality. That's, that's not good at all. No. So you had all these experiences through college and, and then you graduate somehow miraculously Gary graduates.

Yeah. But you're off to play pro sports. Mm-hmm. I mean, what happens there in the mentorship game?

Does somebody fill the role? Is it just kind of a business relationship with you and your coach? Does an old mentor come out and fill that, or are you. A molded talent now to where you're, you're ready to be set free on your own. Yeah. I wouldn't say I'm molded talent. Oh, Lokey wants to come and join the podcast.

Shes Lokey. Hello? Oh, there she is. , yeah, my first year playing and.  My relationship with my coaches was more business, I would say. I was getting paid to play.  I was trying to keep that relationship very professional. ,  there was really only one coach, two coaches that were. You know, pretty tough to, to deal with.  But  other than that, I think I had a pretty good run with coaches, more of a professional relationship.

One,  coach in Spain was very, we had public weigh-ins. I think I've told you this before at the time, it's, I joke about it. Perhaps a cultural, cultural difference. Oh, goodness. Something. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. In Spain , before every practice on Monday, ,  it was called an accountability weigh-in to see how your weekends went.

So we publicly, one by one step on the scale, and so that. Already it was not great for girls who struggle with body image playing in spandex and, , it's, , encouraging a full culture of disordered eating. It was really, that was definitely a red flag with that coach. But other than that, , I would say I kept my contact with Mike Sacko, would kind of lean on him at times when I needed his help or mentorship.

Yeah. You and Mike have remained close for a very long time. Still to this day. . I just text him the other day, so he's, he's been great. But yeah, I think I kind of figured some things out from. My high school experiences with coaches going to two different colleges, kind of seeing the difference in coaching styles.

And then, um, I kind of wanted to create some space for my coaches at that point, uh, moving forward and just wanting more of a professional relationship with them. But it kind of worked out for what it was anyway, cause I was getting paid to play and. , that was pretty clear and the relationship piece I could get with my teammates.

I didn't need to have that with my coaches. So you weren't ready, I mean, you, you had had mentorship. I could've probably used more, for sure. I could always, I could've always used more. I think especially , my first year playing pro,  I was 22 and so I really leaned on my older teammates.

For mentorship and guidance. So although, although they weren't my,  male role models, like we're, we're, talking about here, they were older and were seasoned in playing professionally, and a lot of them were from other countries. And so I really leaned on them for, for mentorship and they guided me.

So I, I've really never been shy about getting mentorship or being a sponge and getting. You know, asking questions about things I didn't know. Like I've always been really craving that feedback and mentorship, um, from anybody. So they've, thankfully, yeah, I've had some really awesome teammates that have, have guided me through my career too.

All right. So what advice would you give to everyone that if there's somebody that maybe. Already has a stable mentor and is going out to college or going out on their own or somebody, let's, let's focus on somebody that needs that mentor, right? So what, uh, what exactly should they look for in a person, , to fill that kind of bodily figured gap to our younger audience?

Out there are younger athletes. Yeah, younger athletes. I think. Whether it's a friend's, a friend's dad, or a coach you've had in your past, , think of somebody who's made you feel heard, valued, listened to, respected, supported. You know, who's that person? Are they male or female? Maybe they're male, maybe they're female.

Maybe it's a past coach or maybe it's a teacher.  Right, or yeah, teachers, a former teammate, maybe. Um, there could be that too, like teammates. As you're a freshman, maybe you have a junior, senior teammate and that person could provide mentorship for you too. But yeah, are whoever makes you feel supported, you know, valued, respected, listened to, like those people are invested in, in you for the right reasons and, and care about you.

And so check in with them, seek them out, you know, shoot them a text. Absolutely. And if someone, you do have someone like that in your life, just shoot them a thank you text or, I'm so grateful for you because, um, those people need to know what an impact they're, they're making in, in your life. So that's a great point.

Let 'em know that they're loves and that you appreciate it. And I would also say, uh, don't let go of that, because that's such an invaluable thing for. Younger individuals, young, high performers and athletes, they need that in their life. They need that stability. They need the mic in their life. Yeah. Um, through the hard times and to help 'em get through and develop.

Right. And, and kids, younger people take that for granted. Mm-hmm. You know, they're like, a lot of times they, uh, that's always gonna be in my life or that person will always be there. Or I can get that anytime I want. Right. So I'll just go. Back to my TikTok or the, or the gram of Vita or whatever. It's so, yeah, like Carrie said, thank that person, you know, keep that in your life.

Develop that relationship because it is a two-way street too. Like, you know, as a mentor, two-way person, I'm not gonna sit there and waste my time if the other person's output in the work, right? Yeah. So if you pick up on those signs that Carrie just talked about, you know, hold onto that person and put in the work and effort.

And in the long run you'll be a better performing athlete. Really just a better person, right? Yeah. I think never stop growing. I think that's something that's, that's I've held onto. So even though I am in a very different stage of my athletic journey, kind of funnily enough, Mike is a such a seasoned triathlete, and so I've gone to him for some triathlon training tips, right?

Like I'm still trying to find a way to. Connect with him and for him to mentor me, um, because he is just, you know, he's, he is just such a great person. But I think, yeah, it's also invaluable to just never stop seeking that, that mentorship and to stop growing. Cuz we're constantly evolving and we can always be doing better, you know, so try not to be scared if you're an athlete who is having a hard time with the way that you're being coached or, um, maybe you're.

Yeah, you're having a hard time with, with feedback and, and hearing things that are hard and uncomfortable. Take that in journal about it, kind of reflect, get some clarity about why these feelings are coming up for you. , and then lean into that discomfort cuz it's not always good to quit the team or to transfer or to go away from the hard thing.

So you wanna make sure that you're making good decisions there. , cuz the hard stuff is the stuff that's gonna grow you. That's right. Adversity. Yes. Okay. Carrie, last question. I think you know what I'm gonna ask. I don't, it's the fa, it's the famous RSM question. Oh, here we go. Here we go. 18 year old self.

Oh goodness. So yeah, 18 year old self. Would you do anything different advice, change anything in terms of where you were at? With your mentors who you were seeking advice from? All of the good things.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a tough question cuz everything on one hand shapes you, right? So I wouldn't be sitting here with you if I wouldn't have gone through all of that back then when I was 18. But I would say to speak up when something feels wrong, crush your gut probably is wrong. And let somebody know who can drive some action behind that.

I, I think it would've been, it's my only regret is just looking back, I, I wish that I would've. You know, filed a complaint or we would've done more as a group to push that. Push that coach out. Yeah. So other people maybe didn't have to deal with him. Right? Yeah. You're just trying to sur you know, I was just trying to survive, and that's what I tell myself anyway.

I was just trying to tread water and. Get through that situation and like at that time, you just don't have the clarity or like the wherewithal to really know how that decision is impacting you for other people. You're just trying to get through. Yeah. And you're just, I mean, at that point I was just trying to get away, you know, to transfer, to go away.

Yeah. And, and without really thinking about, you know, future incoming girls and that they would have to deal with that too. Yeah. I think that's a great point too, is, uh, recognizing that. If you are taking a stand and we got our, our number one guest here, come here. Come here. Hungry puppy. Hey, I think that is a great point to bring up though, is that, , if.

You don't deal with it, you know, you gotta think about the ripple effects, right? Mm-hmm. If you're, um, being strong in that case and addressing the problem, you're potentially saving a lot of people down the road from having, uh, a, a bad influence in their life, eroding another person's life, you know? For sure.

So that's an admirable thing to do as well. Yeah. But it's also, I mean, it's totally understandable to just flee the situation if you recognize it. Uh, As an, as an unhealthy relationship. Yeah. So for sure. Yeah. Yep. 18 year old Carrie. Oh God, this would've loved to known her. I wanna give her a hug. Do you think it would've worked out between me and you?

18 year old me. 18 year old, and you, oh, well there's an age difference. 

You were 13 when I was 18. Yeah, I was, that's crazy. We'll end on that. Oh my gosh. But on a, on a serious note, if you do, I would've gotcha a 13. Oh my gosh. I think I would've had, okay. So for the Father's Day special, if  you're lucky enough to have a dad, a coach, a mentor, get them a shirt, get them the merch telling ya.

But send them a text, send them a gratitude text. Make them a card. Yes, of course. Send them a text. Take them, but also send them a shirt. Take them somewhere to show them how much you care about them. , because people deserve to know. What they mean to you and the positive impact that, that they have on you.

So I wouldn't recommend sending the, the negative hate messages to the coaches that have done you dirty, but for the good ones, let's, , focus our attention on the gratitude and to Yes, hope it says I care more That a beautiful, ready, set, mindful T-shirts. . Help people learn better. Okay.

Thank you so much everyone. Love you guys. Thanks for the support. All right, we will see you closing out from the cabin on the next episode. All right. Take care.

 Thanks so much for joining us on this episode of the Ready Set Mindful Podcast with me, Carrie Bisch Gay. If you like what you hear, make sure to like, comment and subscribe to the podcast. You can also follow us on Facebook and Instagram or visit ready set mindful.com for free resources, courses, and other ways to work with me.

Until next time, be well. Stay mindful.