Right Plate — Demystifying Carbohydrates and Fiber

The science behind carbohydrates and fiber and the role they play in a healthy meal plan.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi everyone, you're listening to A Right Plate Podcast. I'm Randi Gallinson, Nutritional Strategist on the MedChefs team. Now that you're learning about the MedChefs program, you'll notice that one of the advantage points in the MedChefs scoring system is fiber. specifically the goal to get 25 grams for women and 35 grams for men daily. And while people have known for decades that fiber is a good thing because it helps keep things moving through your system, there remains confusion on how to get more of it in your diet, its relationship to carbohydrates, coupled with sort of more recent fears about eating too many carbohydrates and the impact of that on our bodies. I'm here with Dr. Greg Quinn, founding partner of MedChefs, and in today's podcast, he's going to help clear up some of the confusion and tell us exactly why fiber is a key part of the MedChef's point systems. And later he'll speak to some of the newer data about just how beneficial it really is. Greg?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Thank you, Randy. You know, I think this is a really important discussion. And to put it in the proper context, these podcasts, RightPlate podcasts, are about behavior change around food. And here, we're going to go deep into the specifics of fiber. Not really a behavior issue, but yes, it is, actually. Because in my practice, I see a lot of misunderstanding, confusion around carbohydrates, fiber. And as a result, many people are taking actions that aren't helping their cause. They're avoiding carbohydrates, painting with a broad brush, And as a result, they're ending up on low fiber diets, which the data is clear. That is an unhealthy way of eating. So we're gonna talk about fiber, the value of fiber, and how can we incorporate it into our diet and affect our behavior.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Sounds like everyone needs to put their scientist hats on a little bit. I think we're in for a biochem lesson. So let's start with the basics. What are carbohydrates and their relation to fiber? And I've heard terms like simple and complex carbohydrates. What's the difference there? And what exactly is fiber?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

On the radio airwaves, I think I just heard everyone scramble for the doors. Radio airwaves, old technology. But I'm sorry, but you're right, Randy. This is unavoidable. We need to have a brief course in the biochemistry. And please bear with me, because if you really understand what fiber is, what's the role of carbohydrates in a healthy diet, I think the decisions will be clear. And as a result, the behavior will be clear. The body has three field choices. That's carbohydrates, fat, and protein. And let's ignore protein for the moment because the body really only uses protein to generate energy when in a pinch. Carbohydrates by far are the preferred choice of generating energy for most cells in our body and actually most forms of life.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

That's interesting. And I've heard that the brain uses an enormous amount of energy, particularly glucose, right? Which is carbohydrates.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, exactly. You know, the brain weighs only three pounds, which is about 2% of our body weight, but it consumes 20% of all the energy. And you're absolutely right. The predominant energy source for the brain is glucose, is carbohydrates. So again, let's dispense with the idea that carbohydrates are bad. The problem is too many of us in our society are eating too much of the wrong kind of carbohydrates. So here's where the biochemistry comes in.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Bear with me. Buckle up, everybody. I think I can do

SPEAKER_01 4:15

this in two minutes. Okay. Set the clock. Okay. So carbohydrates are basically units of sugar. Building blocks, think of a building block and each building block is a sugar molecule, okay? And we can divide carbohydrates into simple carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates. Simple carbohydrates are just one building block. So you drink a sweet drink or you eat a sweet meal and it consists of just these one building block sugar units. And guess what? The body from the gut can absorb only individual building blocks into the bloodstream. So when you eat such a meal or drink such a drink, the sugar is absorbed very quickly. Now, another form of simple carbohydrate are two of these building blocks linked together. And likewise, when you consume that, your gut has enzymes that can cleave that bond between those two sugar units, and each one of those individual sugar units can then be absorbed into your bloodstream. so when you eat or drink simple carbohydrates they are very rapidly absorbed into your bloodstream which causes a very quick insulin response from your pain

SPEAKER_00 5:36

yeah so so athletes use sometimes use that they'll drink goo or they'll drink they'll use that as a tool to get a sudden burst of energy

SPEAKER_01 5:45

exactly exactly because again Carbohydrates are an important fuel source, and you mentioned an athlete. An athlete who's generating energy in some form of aggressive activity needs that fuel, needs it quickly. And the insulin spike is what clears the carbohydrate, the sugar, from the bloodstream into the cell when it's needed. Think of insulin like the key. It opens the door and allows that sugar unit to go into the cell. Now, it's a problem when we're not talking about an athlete. We're talking about someone sitting watching TV or playing a video game. Now, they drink such an energy drink and they get this rapid rush of sugar into the bloodstream, a high insulin spike, and now the cell is flush with sugar. The cell is smart, says, we don't need any more sugar. You know what? We're going to change the locks. We're gonna change the, you need a different key. The insulin will no longer work. We call this insulin resistance. So the pancreas, which produces insulin, has to create more insulin.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

So that's really a setup for pre-diabetic states, right? Well,

SPEAKER_01 6:56

exactly right. We won't get into the biochemistry of that scenario, but suffice it to say, the insulin resistance is the beginning of diabetes, is the beginning of the expression of many genetic situations that are detrimental, such as cholesterol abnormalities, high blood pressure, hardening of the arteries, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

And weight gain.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

And weight

SPEAKER_00 7:20

gain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

So it all starts with insulin resistance. So those are the simple carbohydrates. Individual building blocks or two of these building blocks linked together by one bond that is easily cleaved. Now, complex carbohydrates. Those are the good ones, right? I want to stay away from good, bad, because as you pointed out with an athlete, the simple carbohydrates are very important. They won't have enough energy to complete their task, right? But complex carbohydrates are healthier for you, for most of the population, particularly if you're sedentary. So complex carbohydrates are... strings of these individual sugar building blocks linked together. So think of them linked together like a train with boxcars coupled together one after the other, or think of them coupled with some branching. So it looks more like a tree with many different branches going in different directions. But there are many different individual sugar units linked together. And it responds differently in the body. Because when you consume a complex carbohydrate, it takes longer for the body's enzymes, the gut enzymes, to cleave all of those bonds. So now each individual sugar unit is released slowly into the bloodstream.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

So that must have an impact on the insulin spike.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Exactly. Bingo. So because the individual sugar units are entering the bloodstream more slowly, the insulin response is not as robust. And so we avoid all those negative results of high insulin and subsequent insulin resistance. So those are the complex carbohydrates.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So we're starting to get a picture that not all carbs are created equal and that we shouldn't just be throwing them under the bus, so to speak. And I think fiber plays a big role in that. So tell us more about fiber.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

So fiber. First of all, what is fiber? Fiber is a complex carbohydrate. The only difference in what we already have discussed is that these individual sugar units are not cleaved. Why? Because our gut does not possess the enzyme necessary to break those bonds. So this complex carbohydrate goes undigested. It simply passes right through our gut. I digress for a moment here. Where does this all come from? So the complex carbohydrates come from plants. Plants take sunlight, carbon dioxide, and water. And through their alchemy, they produce complex carbohydrates and we consume them. Some of them we can digest and the fiber portion we cannot digest.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Okay, so I think that concludes our biochem lesson, and I did not set the clock, but I'm pretty sure it was more than two minutes.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Well, I will say this. You got a full quarter's worth of medical school biochemistry in, what, five minutes?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Yeah, that's pretty good. That's a pretty good deal. So we've heard about the importance of these different macronutrients, and particularly around carbohydrates and fiber. Let's talk about some of the benefits now, the benefits of complex carbohydrates?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

So there's old thinking and new thinking. When I was in medical school, the old thinking was that it was all mechanical, that this undigested carbohydrate, as it passes through our bowel, it adds bulk, it keeps us regular, we avoid constipation, we avoid diarrhea. And that mechanical benefit also resulted in an improvement of bowel health. We do not see the incidence of diverticulosis, diverticulitis, common diseases of the bowel. It was all thought to be a mechanical benefit. But now we know so much more with the advent of the microbiome.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Oh, yeah, that's just an exploding part of science now. Oh, yeah. I've got research.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

And absolutely fascinating. To get into that a little bit, first of all, the body consists of around 50 trillion cells, but there are far more bacteria in our gut than there are human cells comprising our body. And these bacteria in our gut are comprised by some 2000 different species of bacteria. And we live in a symbiotic relationship, meaning they benefit from us and we benefit from them. There's a communication going back and forth. As we are now learning, there are many diseases related to what is called dysbiosis or disruption of the bacterial population in our gut. Many diseases such as inflammatory bowel disease, colon cancer, asthma, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, autoimmune diseases, all may be related to an imbalance in our gut microbiome population. And fiber is the best way to keep that gut microbiome healthy.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

So the microbiome likes fiber.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

They flourish there. And we call this a prebiotic as opposed to a probiotic. Probiotics are solutions we can ingest to try to populate the gut with fiber. quote unquote, the proper microbiome. I say quote unquote because we don't really know what the proper balance is, but prebiotics, of which fiber is, is basically the food for the microbiome.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

okay you know as i listen to you i'm kind of in awe of the millions of biochemical processes that are happening in our body at all the time and they just it's just firing off it just knows what to do

SPEAKER_01 14:04

yeah there's there's this this wonderful symphony going on in our body and and we are really oblivious to it yeah but when we are functioning um in harmony Everything's working well. To just expand a little bit between that interaction between fiber and the microbiome, we now know as the microbiome digests this fiber, it produces some healthy compounds that can create a protective lining on the inside layer of our gut. And these bacteria belong in the gut, not in our bloodstream. Bad things happen when they get into the bloodstream. So as the microbiome digests the fiber, it creates a protective layer. And if you don't have that protective layer, these germs can get into the bloodstream.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

And now you're referring to leaky gut

SPEAKER_01 14:54

syndrome. Leaky gut syndrome, exactly. When one is eating a diet low in fiber and high in animal-based protein, there are byproducts from that, digestion that can get into the bloodstream through this leaky gut syndrome and wreak havoc with our biochemistry. So we could go on and on, but a high fiber diet is synonymous with gut health and health of the body. And it's largely manifested through the microbiome, which is an exploding science, as you have said.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

So some people experience discomfort when they add different kinds of fiber to their body and it can be a problem for some. It can cause bloating and gas and diarrhea and constipation. So is this right for everybody to pursue their

SPEAKER_01 15:46

fiber, the fiber goals? Well, here's where we need to introduce a disclaimer. And yes, a high fiber diet is beneficial for the majority of people. But there are populations, irritable bowel syndrome, where people are intolerant of certain food groups, food items. And you really need to make sure you're in conversation with your physician if you are suffering from such a condition. Fiber, complex carbohydrates are very broad category of foods. So in conjunction with your physician, It is not necessary to eliminate all of the items within this food group. But in conjunction with your physician, you can eliminate the offending items that are aggravating irritable bowel syndrome.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Let's talk about the various ways we can get more fiber in our diet. I know at the MedChefs program, you know, we're going for those 25 and 35 grams a day. But We don't always, you know, how do you keep track? How do you know? It's not like we're going to measure every time.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Right, right. So, you know, from this discussion, it should be clear that a plant-based diet is the best source for fiber. It is the source for fiber. So in following the MedChef's dietary pattern, you are encouraged to consume an adequate amount of fruits and vegetables. And if you do that, you're most likely going to be good with fiber. So yeah, you know, it's, it's a good idea to have the knowledge of the high fiber foods versus the foods that aren't. But if you're really putting your emphasis on getting sufficient fruits and vegetables every day, fiber is probably going to be okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Well, other things. as well are really high in fiber. So why don't we go through some of the ways that you can have a diverse diet, you can have a lot of different choices and still be hitting those goals. So you mentioned fruits and vegetables for sure. That's a great source, particularly berries and bananas and apples. Artichokes are amazingly high. Kale and spinach. Sweet potatoes are another good source. People think that that's because it's sweet that it must be bad. But in fact, they have a lot of fiber. So as you described, they really slow that process down and it turns out to be really beneficial. What about whole grains?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah, whole grains. So Can I talk a little biochemistry again? Well, if you, if you look at a, at a a grain, it consists of a fiber coat and then the simple carbohydrate is inside of that. And when carbohydrates are processed, they strip away the, the, the brand, the grain that they strip away the brand, the fiber from that seed. and you're left with a simple carbohydrate. So that's the problem with processed carbohydrates. They're taking away the good stuff and just giving you the simple carbohydrate. So yes, grains are a very important source of fiber but you need to eat whole grain and not processed grains.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

So this is interesting because a lot of the sophisticated labeling and the marketing says that things are natural or they'll say they're whole wheat and they're whole grain. And you can all look at the label of anything. Let's take a loaf of bread. And if you look on the back, you'll see that there is a reference to how many carbs, usually it's 20 to 24, somewhere in that range. And then you look at the fiber content. If that fiber is less than 10%, you are not even though it may say it's whole grain, it is not a whole grain, right? They've really processed it out. So ideally, when I shop for bread, I actually look for 20% fiber to the carb ratio.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Can you give an example? Not necessarily a specific brand, but just give an example of what you're looking

SPEAKER_00 20:08

for. Well, I don't mind giving an example like Dave's Killer Bread. That tends to be a really good ratio of carbs to fiber. And so that's consistently a good choice. And once you are are looking for that ratio, now you can begin to evaluate on your own other breads. Milton's bread tends to be good. And you can find those easily in the grocery store. So we encourage you all to read the labels because it's the big reveal. It lets you not have to buy the marketing campaign and then really be an informed consumer. So we've talked about whole grains and also popcorn. That's a great snack. It's really high in fiber. We've talked about whole grains. We've talked about fruits and vegetables. Nuts and seeds is a pretty good source, particularly chia seeds and flax seeds. That's easily added to your oatmeal or your yogurt, and you can get a nice fiber bump from there. But without a doubt, legumes. That's the king of fiber there, or the queen of fiber. That's the highest amount. Lentils, split peas, kidney beans, black beans, all of this is a great source of fiber. And they tend to be high in protein as well. So for those who are vegan and vegetarian, it's really kind of the food of choice.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

So absolutely, Randy. And it really is its core to the MedChef scoring system. So you get a point for eating adequate fruits and vegetables. You get a point for eating adequate vegetables. whole grain and legumes. So that's fundamental to the scoring system. And that's why I was saying, if you are following the meal plan and striving to get the adequate amount of points, your fiber is probably going to be okay. Again, 25 grams for a woman, 35 grams for a man at a minimum. You can track that, but if you just focus on the score, you'll probably

SPEAKER_00 22:20

be okay. Yeah.

UNKNOWN 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

And, you know, some of us are sensitive to gluten found in wheat, and you can balance that with other grains like quinoa and rice, brown rice. Others have an easier time digesting mung beans and lentils. Those tend to be easier for people. And... you know, other beings are difficult for people to get used to possibly, but, but, you know, the frequent complaint again is gas and bloating and that's understandable, but it's something that you can get used to over time.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

You know, I think this is a good time to really emphasize that. Yeah. If, if, if you are an individual who has been eating way too little fiber, way too much animal protein, to change your dietary pattern, it's going to be disruptive.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Even just eating more vegetables can have that effect. Eating more vegetables,

SPEAKER_01 23:18

yeah. And your microbiome is going to be in a transition. You're going to be growing the healthier population of bacteria in your gut. But that transition can cause some changes, as you're alluding to, more bloating, more gas. And I encourage people to to not be discouraged initially, to maybe move slowly, but be patient because that will most likely change. Now, again, there is a small population of people with irritable bowel syndrome that need to be in conversation with your physician. For just the newcomer beginning to eat in this way, yes, there will be a transition, but most people settle into a new pattern and are just fine.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yeah. And I think, you know, we're all looking for that harmony with all the different food types that gives us energy that we need and makes us feel good. But the goal of enough fiber in our food is really still a clear goal, even as you go through this transition.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah. You know, I've heard that there are some 20,000 edible fruits and vegetables. Think about how many different types of vegetables. animal product. There's 20,000 different edible fruits and vegetables. So if you have trouble with one type of legume, continue to explore. Don't paint with a broad brush. Don't throw everything out.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Keep exploring. There's a lot of choices there. And I think our gut's really happy with the diverse kind of array of foods.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yes, yes. And it's delicious. And I would like to add one other thing, and that is if you happen to be someone who is afraid of carbohydrates and trying to limit them as much as possible, please rethink that. And yes, restrict your simple carbohydrates, but really focus on the complex carbohydrates and especially, especially fiber.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Okay, I think that's enough biochem for today. Thank you, Dr. Quinn, for explaining that to us. And really, what's the takeaway? The takeaway is to dive in, explore all different kinds of foods, see what not only tastes good, but makes us feel good. I promise you, your cravings are going to change. And enjoy this transition and experimenting on your new journey.

UNKNOWN 25:51

Thank you.