US Seizes Venezuelan Oil Tanker

Latin America Correspondent Jon Bonfiglio speaks to Kate McCann for Times Radio Breakfast. 

Transcript

Kate McCann: 0:00

Good morning. It is 6.27 on the front of the Times app and online this morning. You can see a video of American troops rapelling down from a helicopter onto an oil tanker. It's the start of an operation to seize a ship which the Americans say has been illegally taking oil from Venezuela to Iran. There's a massive American US military build-up in the region, including an aircraft carrier, fighter jets, and tens of thousands of troops. Latin American correspondent Jon Bonfiglio joins us now from Mexico. Good morning.

Jon Bonfiglio: 0:30

Hey, good morning.

Kate McCann: 0:31

So what exactly is going on here? I mean, the US doesn't usually seize tankers in this way. What's the justification? What's the argument behind doing it this time round?

Jon Bonfiglio: 0:40

So, yeah, the justification is that this is part of that this tanker is uh part of Venezuela's so-called ghost uh fleet. Uh the vessel appears to be a uh a tanker called the Skipper, which had previously been highlighted as moving oil between Venezuela and Iran, avoiding international sanctions imposed on uh on Venezuela. And that's the justification that that's being given is that this is an illegally operating uh vessel without proper permits, and as a result, the uh US, in what obviously was designed as being characteristically prime time footage uh uh yesterday released by the US administration. That was that's the the rationale behind the boarding and the seizure of the uh of the vessel. And actually, when Donald Trump was asked what he planned to do with the oil, he replied to keep it, I suppose.

Kate McCann: 1:25

Is he is he legally justified though, even given what you've said there? Can can he make an argument for this legally?

Jon Bonfiglio: 1:32

Um what is legal and uh uh extrajudicial in uh in the as regards the US justification is obviously a really big grey area, uh, and what the US says is uh its actions are and can be based uh judicially, both uh nationally and internationally, uh does not necessarily uh there's not often cross-reference to what international exports experts would say is legally justifiable.

Kate McCann: 2:01

And America, I think, had put sanctions on this same ship back in 2022.

Jon Bonfiglio: 2:06

Yeah, there's a whole interesting um uh series of aspects related to oil in Venezuela. Of course, Venezuela has, as we know now with this standoff, has the largest known oil reserves on the planet. But at the same time, it's subject to wide-ranging international uh sanctions, of course, primarily on its its its oil. Now, these sanctions are imposed by the US, the EU, and a number of other countries. Notwithstanding, US oil giant Chevron continues to operate in the country uh on a new restricted waiver license, which was issued in the summer by the Trump administration at the same time as the military buildup uh began. There's a whole series of conflicting actions and behaviors that we are we have now seen for a number of months being enacted by the US administration based in and around Venezuela.

Kate McCann: 2:55

So I suppose that you know people listening to this, John, uh will ask, is that really what Trump is doing here? I mean, he's talked a lot about trying to tackle the drugs trade, the drugs routes, that that's what he's doing in Venezuela. But a lot of people really believe that this is an American sort of ambition to take control or to have more control over a country that has significant reserves, which could be really useful to America.

Jon Bonfiglio: 3:25

Yeah, um I think there's a couple of things to say that actually um to some extent yesterday's play actually allowed Venezuela to um to sort of reach an international audience in saying that the act revealed the true motivations for the military standoff, which they said was not migrations, not drug trafficking, not democracy, not human rights, but Venezuela's natural wealth, it's oil. I think it's pretty clear that Trump's motivation, actually, as evidenced by his actions elsewhere across the Americas, whether it be the recent Honduras election interference, the sort of suggestion that there's going to be a forced takeover of Greenland if it's not handed over by Denmark, um, the proposed annexation of Canada, etc., that that all indicates a sort of an enforced regional political realignment of favorable administrations, and basically in order to do two things. One, remove Chinese influence from the Americas. That's undoubtedly a point of obsession for uh for the Trump administration, and secondly, to open up the hemisphere to uh what you what you might term US extractivism and generate preferential markets for US companies, and absolutely Venezuela is at the apex of those uh of those interests and markets.

Kate McCann: 4:33

It'll be really interesting to see whether that has helped Venezuela make that argument publicly. What with this seizure of this tanker or whether it does embolden Trump to go even further still. John, thank you very much for giving us your take this morning.

Jon Bonfiglio: 4:46

No problem, take care.

Kate McCann: 4:47

Thank you. You two, that is John Bonfilio, their Latin American correspondent in Mexico.

Stig Abell: 4:52

Not entirely irrelevant to our conversation at the beginning of the program about the ECHR. It strikes me that there's a spectrum here where there's a country that's completely locked into the ECHR, where its politicians uh make decisions but they're they're constantly checked by the rule of law. Some people would argue to it to it to an impossible extent. All the way to the other side, which is Donald Trump, who seems to have no regard for the rule of law but acts purely politically. He wants to get into the Americas. He w he's happy to kill drug dealers, he's happy to have his ice people go after anyone in any circumstances, unshackled by the rule of law. And clearly, there's probably a part of the spectrum you want to hit which is happy and sensible, but they are to opposing ends where you're over shackled by the law and you're not even restricted at all by it.

Kate McCann: 5:34

Well, I suppose technically Trump is shackled by the law, he just ignores it. And that's the argument here. I mean, there are some people who say you know, this country should just ignore the law.

Stig Abell: 5:41

Or just be a little bit be ten percent more Trump without being full Trump.