Cuba: “For Donald Trump, Talks Are An Open Invitation to Submit”

Latin America Correspondent Jon Bonfiglio speaks to Carole Walker for Times Radio, + Extras. 

Transcript

Carole Walker 0:01

Carole Walker on Times Radio. Now, President Trump has said the United States could intervene in Cuba amidst U.S. negotiations with Havana over the country's future.

Donald Trump 0:15

You know, all my life I've been hearing about the United States and Cuba. You know, when will the United States do it? I do believe I'll be the honor of having the honor of taking Cuba. It's a big honor taking Cuba. Taking Cuba in some form. Taking Cuba. I mean, whether I free it, take it, think I could do anything I want with it. You want another two?

Carole Walker 0:40

Well, it comes as a US-imposed oil blockade has caused a total power blackout in Cuba. We've had a report of what it's like on the ground from Manuel, who's in Havana, and we voiced up his description.

Manuel 0:58

The situation is very difficult. Principally, there is no fuel, and where there is there are really long queues, and limits on what you can buy. And as regards power, it’s inexpressible. There aren’t power cuts; there is one great big power cut. People here know how to make do, but it’s difficult to remember having lived through times as difficult as this one. And what’s worst of all is that we know that there is no way out of this, we know that what’s coming next is even worse.

Jon Bonfiglio 1:56

Yeah, um definitely sort of stark and grounding hearing those those voices coming out of Cuba. Also worth saying, I think, that a lot of people in on the island are reticent to speak publicly. On the one hand, because they they're fearful of retributions from the government, but also because they're they're deeply concerned, actually, that um there is a sort of a sense of suspicion uh towards the international community um that makes them worry about how their voices are going to be used and misappropriated. As regards the fuel, the the the power cuts, um I think it is important to contextualize that power cuts aren't new in Cuba. In fact, it is an endemic problem across Latin America. There were national electrical grids that were set up um around a generation ago, sometimes longer ago than that, and those have been underfunded and require a lot of maintenance and an updating which has just not taken place, which Latin American countries have not been able to do, and which which Cuba, given the fact that it's lived on an economic edge for so long now, has certainly been unable to do. Now, when you multiply that with the current, well, with the fall of Venezuela as it was before January the 3rd, and the end of support from Venezuela, uh, affordable support, uh, cut price support uh of fuel to Cuba, to the Cuban island, um, uh uh alongside the new blockade now which the US has been enforcing on the island. That means that you have a um uh a significantly ailing infrastructure, electrical infrastructure multiplied by no fuel with which to run it.

Carole Walker 3:38

Yeah, and uh clearly the situation um on the ground for many citizens there is very, very difficult. And we're also hearing about food and medicine shortages. Uh we heard President Trump there saying how he could how he could take Cuba. I mean, it is always very difficult, I know, to interpret exactly what the US President means. But um, what is your understanding of uh of what is going on with President Trump uh and Marco Rubio, who seems to be playing a key role in deciding what should happen next?

Jon Bonfiglio 4:14

Well, I mean it's remarkable language, isn't it, by any sort of historical standards. One of the things that's interesting about the current um discourse between which is also very Donald Trump, it's very uh this administration is the mixed signals that are being sent. So on the one hand, you have this blockade around the island, but you also have the US sending aid to uh to Cuba. You also have talks which are taking place, which initiated, which are now agreed by both sides. The Cuban government had admitted for the first time towards the end of last week that this was happening, but at the same time, you have these ongoing threats from the Trump administration. Um, too. Uh what I would how I would contextualize the talks at the moment, because there's there's kind of pretty stark differences between what both sides are saying. On the one hand, the Cuban uh government is saying that there are open bilateral talks taking place um designed to resolve uh some of the most high-profile issues that the two countries um uh face, that differentiates them. But then on the other hand, you basically have a position taken by the Trump administration, which is which sees talks as being an open invitation to submit and doesn't actually regard talks in any way as reaching a sort of a point of mutual uh agreement. And of course, we've we've seen that with Venezuela, um, we we saw that very recently with with Iran as well, where talks can just suddenly become something else. And that's pretty much fully the expectation because a number of concessions have already been made by the Cuban government. But the expectation is, and again, it goes back to what Manuel from in Havana said at the start of this, is that the people um expect there to be some kind of action that for nothing to quite be enough for Donald Trump and then for a serious escalation to happen from one moment to the next.

Carole Walker 5:58

Yeah, indeed. And uh clearly very difficult indeed to assess exactly what President Trump's intentions are. Uh Marcus, who does like to get in touch on points of international law, says it's utter lawlessness from Trump. No, he cannot just take any country he wants. International law has clear rules about what is allowed and what is not. Using force against other countries is not allowed. You may very well be right on that, Marcus. I'm not sure that President Trump is necessarily listening. Um, Jon Bonfiglio, it's been great to have you with us. Thank you so much.

Jon Bonfiglio 6:33

Hi everyone, it was interesting that um last little intervention towards the end of that interview with um that slot with Carol Walker, because of course it's I mean it's illegal. Whichever way you you look at it, it's illegal. But it's a big difference between what is allowed and what is permitted. I think, and certainly Cuba is finding itself isolated and friendless on the international stage at the moment. Historically, the island of course has been a key figure in the region, especially as regards its soft power, historic strengths of health, doctors and education. But now the calculation, which is largely being made by other uh regional countries, is that standing alongside the island would be too high a price to pay for them for many, um, for many nations. And then um, just also a thought on sort of struck me as well during that piece that it's always very easy for us to forget um how dependent the modern world is on fuel. Uh, primarily, of course, it means a break in in all transport systems. I mean, for most of us, I think you know, we regard that as being uh the fuel pump of personal transport, but of course it also means the transport of anything that needs moving, which is pretty much everything in a sort of global society that we we live in food, medicines, products, all manner of products. Um in Cuba it also has implications, as it does in many parts of Latin America for water purification is uh has implications for waste disposal, means no electricity for fridges or fans to cool houses and keep mosquitoes away. A few months ago, in fact, nearly a third of the population of Cuba contracted a mosquito-borne um illness, chikungunya, which is a sort of a variant of dengue uh fever. It's um it's the the an absence of fuel in this world uh that we that we live in, where we are so dependent on on fossil fuels, um affects absolutely all aspects of daily life. I mean everywhere, but certainly little doubt in Cuba.