Colombia Election Preview & Mexico's Law to Reject Election Interference

Latin America Correspondent Jon Bonfiglio speaks to Henry Bonsu for Times Radio.

Transcript

Henry Bonsu 0:00

Now to another election, this time in Latin America in Colombia, which will go to the polls on Sunday in a vote that's been billed as a referendum on outgoing President Gustavo Petro's policies. During his term, President Petro has broken with previous leaders in Colombia with an approach to foreign affairs that's challenged the United States on drug policy and immigration. I'm delighted to say with me in the studio is Jon Bonfiglio, Latin America correspondent. Jon, welcome to the program. And indeed to the studio. Now, this election is being framed as a referendum on outgoing President Petro's policies. What have his historic PAC policies, the agenda, actually done to Colombia during his tenure? Would you say?

Jon Bonfiglio 0:43

I think it's been a crucial sort of point of inflection for Colombia over the last years. Of course, you can't understand this presidency without understanding the peace plan that started about 10 years ago. And so this has been a sort of a point of uh shift in policy because Petra has been the first president, I mean the first leftist president in generations in in Colombia, but also the first president who has taken on an entirely different tack as regards the de facto civil war which took place in in Colombia and said we cannot pursue peace through armed, ongoing armed conflict. So this his signature policy is the so-called total peace policy in which he's attempted uh to bring in all stakeholders, which is a highly complicated landscape. You've got you know paramilitaries, uh you've got um sort of political splinter groups, you've got uh transnational criminal organizations, you've got indigenous groups, the government, and so on. So to bring all of these parties, all of whom are responsible for different levels of atrocities, into the center and to try and generate a project which moves Colombia on as a sort of a as a unitary entity beyond the horror.

Henry Bonsu 1:52

Yeah, I mean he speaks, of course, from experience, he's a former member of the M19 guerrilla group, which dates back to the 70s, or 70s, 80s.

Jon Bonfiglio 2:01

It was in the 80s where they sort of gave up their arms. They were the first group really to sort of renounce violence. Um they were the most sort of, I guess, sort of socially cultural, culturally, intellectually active group amongst the others, and they were the first to come in from the fold, and he was a key figure. So I mean, you know, I'm not um taking a political position by uh by comparing him to Nelson Mandela, but I do think it is an interesting um case point in history where uh people who have taken up arms against other groups or the state then realize that actually that there is ultimately uh a point of incoherence in in armed conflict.

Henry Bonsu 2:34

And given what uh Petro has achieved uh during his term of office, I'm wondering how much appetite there might be for more of the same from his heir apparent, uh the three-term senator, uh Ivan Cepeda. Mm-hmm.

Jon Bonfiglio 2:50

Um I think it's a really interesting question because that there are different perspectives on it. If you look at the uh from an outsider's perspective, from an international perspective, at the international um at the peace process in Colombia, it is almost universally regarded as being a sort of a high watermark of uh incredible success. Now, if you look at it from within Colombia, uh Colombians who have uh uh almost every Colombian knows somebody who's who has been affected by the violence over that sort of three generation period. So this this this policy has again tried to sort of bring peace to the center, but what you've basically got on both sides is on one side you've got sort of individuals who say who believe that former um individuals who've involved themselves in sort of mass atrocities and violence are actually being uh sort of permitted a level of impunity. And then others on the on the on uh on the other side would also say, well, actually, the imperfect nature of the peace process would suggest that uh that actually it's not been 100% successful, and there's a sort of a scratching around for uh for a ch for potentially a change in in in policy.

Henry Bonsu 3:50

Um one wonders how much of a change, and just considering um how different is the vision presented by Paloma Valencia from the Democratic uh centre, and that's the party led by the former president of Alvaro Uribe. Um, what would her attitude uh be towards that? What um is her prospectus to the people of Colombia?

Jon Bonfiglio 4:12

She is uh uh fairly fervently against the total peace plan. She wants to militarize, she wants to bring back uh sort of harsh uh responses to transnational criminal organizations. Yeah, it's it's interesting because you you know the two figures, of course, economically you've got, um I guess in Latin America these days from the right, the the key ones are Javier Miei with the sort of slash and burn economic policies, and then you've got the the punitive um uh uh jail and sort of pursuing of gangs that you see with Nay ib Bukele and El Salvador. So those are probably the two sort of clear example points. Um uh Paloma is is clearly a more traditional candidate of the center right. She comes from a long-standing political uh family and uh and has political uh power, historic political power uh behind her. But to some extent, we've seen this internationally, right? Um to some extent, the fact that she comes from that traditional background, has that traditional power and strength, actually invalidates her presence, her candidacy, uh given the fact that, again, internationally, but specifically in Colombia, there is this ongoing sort of uh sort of social need to tear up everything that's gone before historically and to move on to something else.

Henry Bonsu 5:19

I mean, if uh she became the president of Colombia, would she be the first female president? Or uh because I'm trying to I'm trying to remember have they had a female president. I think she would be the first one. Right, because Mexico uh does have a female president, Claudia Sheinbaum, and um in that country they've had a vote on foreign election interference. Perhaps they are casting one eye on Washington. Um what what was the result of that vote uh and the concerns of some of the critics?

Jon Bonfiglio 5:45

It it absolutely is casting an eye on Washington. So if you look at the text of what's been passed, so the Mexican Senate passed a constitutional amendment to include foreign interferences as grants to annul elections. And the the specific text is defined as uh illicit financing, propaganda, the systematic dissemination of information, digital manipulation, and and here's a crucial bit, the intervention of foreign governments or agencies. So that's that's a pretty clear addressing of what we've seen Donald Trump engage himself in as regards Latin American elections, in sort of pursuing an anointed individual and using this sort of stick carrot method to try and enhance the possibilities of that individual being uh being being elected. Why it's a problem in in um in Mexico, why it's been heavily criticized is because Sheinbaum's party, Mexico President Claud Uh Claudia Sheinbaum's party, Morena, already has a sort of stranglehold on um on all bodies basically within within Mexico, uh has recently uh sort of uh uh reformed the judiciary as well for uh uh to to establish an elected judiciary. So the fear is that this policy or this bill is now going to be used to uh misused in order to maintain Morena in power and isn't specifically going to be used to uh to actually sort of temper Trump's tendencies as regards election manipulation.

Henry Bonsu 7:02

You're over here from your base in Mexico. Um, what do people in in the UK need to know, you know, broadly? I mean most of us don't kind of delve into uh Latin American knowledge, you know, very, very deeply. What do but I mean, w when people in this country look at um the African continent, they tend to think of misrule, bad governance, poverty, etc. And of course, that that's very wrong. It's a you know, 55 countries. And when it comes to Latin America, again, people have similarly got a sense of, well, it's that place over there, we don't really hear about it too much, or we don't really have to know too much about it. Well, what do they really need to know?

Jon Bonfiglio 7:35

I think the thing that I've realized about Latin America over basically a generation of being there is that, I mean, not only is it sort of uh unique, diverse, um uh hugely varied right across its its sort of uh landscapes and peoples and and society, but actually the you know, of course the signature, arguably the signature event was 1492. Yeah, you know, and that continues to oftentimes you have a uh a year or an event which repeats through history, and that clearly repeats through all of Latin America. But what I think uh has been sort of unique learning for me is how right across the region, Latin America and the Caribbean, there are sort of local, uh sort of indigenous social, political groups that continually sort of at a grassroots level, in a whole host of uh different ways, actually sort of fight back against that and have continued to fight back against that uh for generations. And that's actually, I think, uh it's it's something which is very rarely sort of mentioned. We don't see it because it doesn't make the headlines, but basically the sort of the baseline of existence across Latin America. I would say it's not in its cities, it's not in its economic centres, it is in right across the indigenous and rural spaces and the the incredibly diverse sort of levels of organization and resistance which continue to take place across the region.

Henry Bonsu 8:54

We also tend to look at Latin America through the through the lens of football, just briefly, because the World Cup uh starting soon and one of the centers is gonna be uh Mexico. Uh, which Latin American country do you tip? Uh is it Messi? Is it gonna be appearing for Argentina for the sixth time in the World Cup?

Jon Bonfiglio 9:11

I mean, uh so uh I'm not gonna tip Mexico because you know there is no the pedigree that the the obvious ones with uh with with Latin America would be um would obviously be Argentina and and Brazil. Brazil has had a sort of a fractured uh team for quite a long time. Argentina, they passed it, I don't know. But I would draw, again, going back to what we were saying before, I would say the real stories of this World Cup are in the the teams which are not qualified for a long period of time. So your your sort of uh your Haiti would be a sort of a classic uh example of that. I mean, them getting to the World Cup and the whole sort of political sort of ecosystem which surrounds that, I think, is an absolutely unique, sort of good news story.

Henry Bonsu 9:49

Jon Bonfiglio, Latin America correspondent, live in the studio. Thank you very much indeed for joining us on Times Radio.