Hot Stove(John 10:7-18)

𝐇𝐨𝐭 𝐒𝐭𝐨𝐯𝐞(𝐉𝐨𝐡𝐧 𝟏𝟎:𝟕-𝟏𝟖)

Contact: amazedandperplexed@gmail.com
Music by: Heavensense
https://soundcloud.com/hvnsen 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, my name is Connor, and I'm Jason, and you are listening to the Amazed and Perplexed podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

So we are walking behind uh the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ, and we're in book, in book, in book John, in the book of John, uh, chapter 10. And uh Mason Perplex, uh, we're just we haven't spent a lot of time studying. We are just jumping in as a kind of model for how you might study the Bible. And so we're also trying to contextualize it as best we can in an incredibly brief uh way to give us something, at least give Connor and I something to kind of be watching for, kind of to sharpen our thinking. Um, and so we started this context, Jesus is talking to the Pharisees, answering them. Uh, it began in chapter 9, spilled over into chapter 10, and is kind of introductory thoughts are given, and and it ended with the Pharisees didn't understand what he was telling them, and so which is not atypical, it's pretty common. Um, and we talked a little bit about the idea of here's Jesus' identity in this good shepherd role. Um, what else could you give us uh just that might help us take in these next verses that Jesus shares?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Yeah, as people like you and me who have been kind of steeped in uh Christianity basically our entire lives, uh the symbolism or the idea of of God or Jesus as as shepherd is not um shocking, it's not hard, it's not um we are very familiar with this. Um on the same hand, on the other hand, um the people hearing Jesus speak right now are the people who are hearing Jesus speak about this understand it on a whole other level. Uh you and I do not have any sort of direct connection with any shepherd near us. Um we do not have anybody in our lives that has to deal with predators attacking their livestock. That's not something that um we really encounter all that often. Um my life is not lived on the rager's my life is not lived on the razor's edge that the people that are hearing Jesus say these words are living, um where the seriousness of protecting your flock, um the uh the gravity of of a wolf getting in or a predator getting in, um, or a sheep getting lost. Um we live in a an incredible day and age where there is a lot of a lot of failure in our society and a lot of struggles. Um, but usually it's pretty hard uh for people to like go hungry. Usually it's it's pretty hard to face the little level of destitution that some of the issues that would have been on the minds of the hearers of Jesus um could have could have experienced if they were a shepherd um and they lost their flock, or if their family were shepherds and and they had these issues. And so um these like it's it's a pretty metaphor because like in my mind, I don't know about you, Jason, I'd be interested to hear when I think of shepherd, I think of like uh children's play, I think about petting zoo, I don't think about like serious profession, I don't think about necessarily like oh, like this is this is incredibly important, um, incredibly important serious business. I think of kind of child like child plays.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

What about you? I I I think that's pretty accurate. It it's fascinating to me because honestly, when you talk about shepherd or sheep, I'm as likely to think about the Bible as I am about the profession of shepherding or you know, the way sheep show up in my life every day through, you know, my clothing or whatever, you know. So it is fascinating, and it is interesting too, if it was a different time, different culture that Jesus came to, would we be like, I can't even, I'm so unversed in this, but it's like if he had elevated pigs or if he'd elevated, you know, uh camels, you know what I mean, that kind of thing. If the if he was in a culture that that were like, man, those aluminum collectors, they are the salt of the earth. And it's like, oh man, aluminum collectors, I want to be aluminum collector, you know. Um, and again, I'm I'm not suggesting apples to apples here. I'm just trying to get into that mindset of he picked something that I would not be paying attention to that would have been much more obvious to the people of to the listeners, including the Pharisees, and because they probably all knew a guy that was a shepherd, um, or knew a guy that knew a guy, you know, and and they would see the sheep more. You know, I mean they'd see these uh things. These are all out of sight, out of mind. I'd have to go to a farm to see this. Usually it's a novelty, petting zoo kind of kind of thing for us. And so, and then the picture, and that's the real uh thing you're getting at, just that relationship between the shepherd and the sheep. I read a if I'm recommending anything, you know it's either short or I was forced to read it. Just that's to close that's my full disclosure. There's no honor in it, I'm just telling you. But there is a book called Like a Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23. It's a really small book. Um, but it's this guy, he was a shepherd and uh or is a shepherd, and really walks through it well in a concise way. And that was super helpful to me. Before that, I didn't think about it. I didn't think about, and there are there are things he like, my rod, the Lord is my shepherd, and then later he's like his rod and his staff, they comfort me, and how how a real shepherd uses a rod and a staff, you know, kind of thing, what the difference were, what the differences are between those things. Anyway, the point in all that is there is a context, and so I'm wondering when you think about this off the cuff, so you may or may not have anything, what's a parallel in our culture? Like, if Jesus were to come today and say, I want to give you a picture that is like it, if this was done with divine power and wisdom, you know, this would be like me. What's a job in our culture now?

SPEAKER_01 6:02

So this is this is the first thing that popped in my mind, and I'm sure if we we ruminated on it, uh we could we could summon uh a maybe a better picture or a better analogy. But I I drive by every single day this uh this daycare um and they have like their their fence, you can see through the fence, and they've got this big playground, and you have the the the caretakers watching these kids run around and and um yeah, trying hopefully not get seriously injured. And I guess uh my picture uh in my mind I'm kind of I'm kind of picturing the job of what a what a daycare worker is, which is to physically make sure these dumb little I mean sheep, dumb little, you know, these humans don't uh don't hurt themselves. Limited wisdom, yeah, limited what don't uh don't hurt themselves, don't hurt each other, um, don't get lost, don't get out of the pin, don't uh, you know yeah. And that they uh they make sure that the people that uh those little humans belong to are the only ones that have access to them, that there are not people from the outside, wolves, predators, you know, however you want to say that, who can get in. Um so I I do wonder, you know, if Jeez would, you know, come by and be like, yeah, um, I I I I am the good daycare worker.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yeah, yeah. And and I think that my mind went to, man, it's almost like you have to go to mom, but that would be, you know, it without because then mom, you have other reasons why a mom does what she does, including this, her offspring. But yeah, that kind of thing, the the commitment that even your your part-time, I don't mean that negatively, but it's like, yeah, this is just my job to get through college. My my daughter worked at daycares and the level of responsibility she had, you know, maybe teachers, maybe, maybe that would be another parallel, you know. But whatever it takes you, and and the reason I think this is a useful piece of the discussion is uh oftentimes you'll read scripture and be like, man, that didn't land with me at all. And I believe all scripture is God given and um and understanding, you know, we don't get into hermeneutics like like what is the context here and who are the people, and that we're we're just you know, surface in that way. But I do think the more you get in, the more it'll matter to you. And so for you to kind of conceptualize while I'm reading this, that's you know, so this is the Lord talking about how he took care of me when I was in daycare. Or maybe if you had a kindergarten or teach kindergarten teacher that was like stellar, like just man, I still remember the way he or she cared for me, you know, that that might be a good picture. So I'm gonna start in verse seven. Therefore Jesus said again, and I think it's interesting, again, um yeah. So he's like, hey, I've already told you this. Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. I'm the gate. Whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they might have life, they may have life and have it to the full. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he's a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, I know my sheep, and my sheep know me. Just as the father knows me and I know the father, and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen, I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my father loves me is that I lay down my life only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I receive from my father. Man, that is that got very deep.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

So, Connor, what amazes you about this monologue have you ever uh read or heard the stories of of teachers in school shootings who will save the life of their kids or will they'll find that the teachers have been shielding uh the kids kids from bullets with their own body. Right. Um I I don't know why. Like that that um for whatever reason that popped into my mind and I was thinking about the Jesus laying down his life here. Um and I and I I I guess maybe I'm just experiencing a little bit more the visceral reality of it. Um the idea that you know Jesus was torn apart by wolves, Jesus was um brutalized. Um and ultimately what what's so profound and what's so beautiful about what Jesus does, or you know, say one of these teachers, what the teachers will do, um that you know teacher will make that decision in a split second to give up to give their life to lay it down. Um and Jesus has this for that, he knows what's coming, um, and he knows what he's about to experience, and he knows that uh um he knows all this, and yet he he is allowing himself um he is allowing himself to be to be brutalized. And and I think, yeah, there's no grand point, there's no um eloquent way of saying it, but I just find myself feeling it a lot more this morning, which I whenever you can hear something hear something like this that you've heard a thousand times and you can feel a little bit more. I I think that's pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

I I do too. And and I think you know, that idea, you know, the word is living and active uh out of Hebrews, it it is that dynamic. So then why was it not living and active when I read it the other day? You know, and I think it's not a shame thing, it's the realization of this word, and it will cut you, it says literally down to bone and marrow. Um, it's that idea of, oh, I had an opportunity for it to be living and active to me, and it wasn't. So how that's just a good question for every listener to think is how do I read scripture in a way that it man, it really does affect me. I feel it, you know, and that is I think it's really valuable. God made your feelings, it's a it's a valuable lens to look through to say, hey, how's this connecting with me?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah, well, and and like ultimately, this is what my belief of of what um being a follower of Jesus is and what like what what's what the Holy Spirit can do inside of a believer and what the Holy Spirit has come to do inside of any of any any given believer. Um it's so that so the Holy Spirit being inside of me and me choosing to follow him and choosing to to to listen to him as best as I possibly can and and to do what he would do, um what Jesus would do, um allows me to begin to have scripture and the law um and God's commands written onto my heart um in a way that pre-Holy Spirit in my life I I had no access to. Um and so like for me, when I when I when I when I study scripture, what I see what what I see the whole coming of the Holy Spirit and what Jesus is doing is Jesus is solving this problem. Um I mean he's doing a lot of things, obviously. Jesus does a lot of things, guys. Um but one of the things I know, he's he's a cool guy. We'll we'll come come back next week for more steaming hot takes. Uh but when Jesus comes, he is providing a way um to actually fulfill fulfill the law, not not just himself, yes, that too, but for for to allow us um to live out the commands that that God has laid out, um, to allow his scripture and to allow uh his law to be written in our hearts and in our minds. And so I think that for me in this moment, like when I think about like, man, how do I allow scripture to be written into my heart? Like I think that that's that's a piece of what I'm trying to get at. And what I want for this specific verse, and I want what I want for the thing I read this afternoon and what we study next week or whatever, maybe I I want I want it all to be written into my heart and deep into my bones. Um, and not just for me to be able to cite, oh yeah, that that had that that little riff that Jesus does happens in John chapter 10, verse whatever. But like I want to know it. I want to know it like I know my wife. I want to know it like I know that stove is hot. I want to know because I've experienced it and I felt it.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

That phrase, right? It just how you express that, I really love that. It's it's helpful to me. I was thinking, so I'm going to an elementary school right after I'm done here. We have a work day coming up. Uh, and uh I they had a tree come down, and so we're gonna go out and cut it up, whatever. And uh, and I'm like, what if there's a school shooting? You know, like will I look back on this day and Connor has set up, you know, my heart that I'm like, okay, this is my day that I'm willing to lay down my life for the other people. And I'm not a teacher, and I would not deserve that kind of I not deserve that kind of experience. Like, like it wouldn't be I'm imagining to my glory, by the way. I'm not imagining the real excruciating decision of laying down my life, but it but it is that that part of man, I want to know it like I know a stove is hot. You know, it's just like I don't have to think about it. And I often think, you know, when they say uh crisis doesn't create character, it reveals character, and I think that's true. And it's like, okay, so what am I internalizing today? And I want to distinguish that from what crosses my mind. Um, but what am I choosing to really let affect me and say who I am? You know, that well, and man, that's just good.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

And ultimately, uh what I what I love about you, Jason, is you you have a lot of knowledge and a lot of experience, um, and just a lot of biblical knowledge in general. Um, and things that like if we were to sit down and like listen all out, it'd be really helpful for me to know. But it's like I love talking to you because like I I know that you have seen um God do things and felt him, and you felt you felt the hot stove. Like you have um you know it. I think the the Hebrew word is yedah, like you know it. That's when in in the Old Testament when um we translate like you know uh and Abraham knew her or whatever. You know, that that that's that's the idea. It's it's not a um that yeah, that's what we trans, that's what we we that's how we translate it uh into English, but it it doesn't just mean it's a it's a full encompassing knowledge, it's an experiential knowledge. And why I love this conversation with you is like not because like you have so much more intellectual knowledge that I want to pull out and I want to use and and and gain it, although if that happens, great. It's because you have you've experienced um you've experienced things as a follower of Jesus. You've experienced things as a follower of Jesus, um, and there are things about God that you know and that you've seen, and you can speak to how these things of God both taste and how they how they feel and how they what they sound like. Um and so ultimately for me that that that is what I'm after in life is like you you can encounter somebody um with a lot of biblical knowledge and like that's really good. I'm fascinated with that stuff. I consume a lot of that stuff, but like ultimately I want to, I want, I want to, I want to hear and I want to learn, I want to talk to people that have that don't just know intellectually that the stove is hot. I want to I want to I want to talk to people that have felt felt the stove and know it.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Thank you. I I thank you. Um I I want to say that you know, with with me, uh thinking about what amazes me is the level of depth. Uh Jesus hits on so much here, and I'm just gonna generalize with a level of depth. I mean, he talks about spiritual warfare in verse 10. Um, how many people are experiencing Christianity and they're like, oh, I'm supposed to have life and have it to the full, or in other versions they'll say, have life abundantly. It's like, oh, yeah, I don't feel like I got an abundant life going here, so something's off, you know. But he talks about his death already, his death and resurrection, his um he's talking about um oh yeah, the universal. I'm gonna I have other sheep, which is, I mean, you're you can get stoned for that kind of talk. Like this is you're gonna get murdered for that because there is a clear delineation of here are the people of God. And see, I hope we, as you know, 2025, you know, disciples of Jesus, we immediately think, who's it for? It's for everybody, everybody, no matter what limitations, I might naturally feel that there is no limitation to God. God's gospel is for everybody. But this would be so controversial. I mean, there's so much he says here. In to me, if you're asking me, oh man, tell me the stuff, you know, if I only have one passage from Jesus, I mean, honestly, I'm like, whoa, this is a lot, you know what I mean. But I didn't think that before we started reading, you know. And and it's just, wow, this is super impressive. Even the nature of God, they didn't think it's interesting because David writes, you know, the Lord is my shepherd, but I don't, they didn't have a an intimate name, they didn't have a knowing, like you were describing earlier, relationship with God. God was distant and they they had to handle the relationship carefully, is the way many Jews thought about things and and with reverence and sobriety that that I could learn a lot from. But it wasn't this idea of him being my father and the gentleness and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

And my my perception is that there there would be moments, right? Because like I I do think, I think even non-believers in Jesus will experience this. Like I think they'll experience moments where like they touch the hot stove and maybe they don't know, they don't know exactly what it was, but they know that something was different and something was was higher and greater um than things they've experienced before. And like for me, like I'm so moved. Uh you know, just one of the things you touched on the idea um that you have you will have that he has come so that you will have life and have it to the full or have abundant life. Um I I think about you know, I I hear so many people who who come to accept Jesus um in like in real crisis, um, in real moments of like their life has just completely hit the fan. And Jesus comes and he rescues them and like they have this newfound hope. Um and praise God. Like I think that's really beautiful. Um the part that like I I I want more people to see um is is not just that God has come or Jesus has come so that once you die you will know him, um, that you will recognize his voice. It's like that right now, like the God of the universe has made himself known to you in the person of Jesus, and once uh wants to have wants to in you to intimately know him and also wants to dwell inside of you, and wants that abundant life for you, not in some future far-off world where you die, but once you to experience it um here and now. And like I think about how how compelling that would be to somebody hearing this for the first time of like, hey, not not necessarily once Rome is figured out, maybe not once whatever empire of your day is figured out, or whenever people stop sinning in the way that you want, or that your group figures it out, or whatever, but like right now, the Good Shepherd wants to help you live life to the full. Um, like that is man, it's so compelling to me. Um I mean, there are many reasons, many reasons I keep following Jesus. But like again, you just said that was one piece, and it's like that is that is so good. And it's like, man, I I want I want to scream that from the rooftops for for a long time. And that was just a couple of sentences, and he breezes on past that, and like it I uh it'd be an interesting battle one day. Battle is the wrong word, an interesting uh thought experiment to be like if you could just sum up, if you could only have one one thing to uh to preach on or to speak on or to take uh uh from Jesus, what would the 20 verses be, you know, in any particular book? But uh yeah, no, I I just want to echo so much of what you said. The depth here. Um this is one of those areas where you know, okay, for whatever this whoever the cheatest guy is, whether he's a liar, lunatic, or he is or he's as he is, like he has some he knows some things.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

He has some deep knowledge. Yeah, yeah, and that's yeah, I've everything you You just said I could talk about another thirty minutes. So to not do that, let's shift directions. What perplexes you about Jesus' uh speaking here?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah, so I would I would need I would want to do some some word study on on seventeen, but just as it as it's translated in the IV, I find myself very, very perplexed by it says the reason my father loves me is that I lay down my life only to take it up again. Um and so like man, that's just a really, really weird way of phrasing it. And it's in it's in a whole mix of other things that he's saying. So I don't want to like cherry pick it out. And yet I I still can't help but say it, like, man, that is that is a very that's a very loaded saying again. There's so much here. Like e even when I was reading through this thinking, I mean what perplexes me. I found like five other things that amaze me that I was like, oh I should jump on and talk about that. Or the man that perplexes me. But yeah, 17. Uh I'm perplexed. Jason, do you have it do you have it solved for me? Do you have a some insight? Or do you even understand what I'm saying? My per you understand my perplexion? Say it one more time so I make sure. Okay. So Jesus says, The reason my father loves me is that I lay down my life only to take it up again. That is such a weird like if you were to make a statement. The only to take it up again. No, it the the the part that really perplexes me is the reason my father loves me. I gotcha. So like if you like, let's just again strip it down. Let's let's not uh use our super brain powers, but like let's just think like I'm thinking about your own your own dad. You just spent some good a good amount of time with your dad. Um if you're to be if you were in a moment to sum up like the reason my dad loves me is because you'd be like, okay, what is it? What let me let me hear because I you know did this one thing for or yeah, whatever. And again, I I think what she is speaking about encompasses so much more, but yet like I'm like, that's still like that is a lot to hang on in this one sentence.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

It is. I I find it it's the way it in our common language today, we would say, oh, that's really unhealthy. Like if somebody came and said, the reason my father loves me is because I give him rights to the doctor's office, or I mow his yard, or when he talks politics, I always agree with him, or or whatever. It's it's this conditional contingency that we think of as weakness or low-hanging fruit, or that's not very mature, you know, because he's saying, My father loves me because he told me to die for him, because he ends with this command I received from my father. I, you know, I and I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. And and so, yeah, I get that. I think I think it's interesting, as you said, in in context, it probably has a different feel on its own. It is a perplexing way of framing it, you know. Um then I flip it and I'm like, okay, what happens if he doesn't do it? What happened if it is a command he doesn't do it? Does that mean God won't love him? And how does God using love maybe differently than I do? You know what I mean? Why do I love my kids? And I would respond, because they are my kids. But then what if they were murderers? You know what I mean? What if they didn't live as respectable citizens, you know? What if they didn't hold my values at least to some degree? I mean, I expect them to be very unique humans, but you know, there there's a scope. Sure, you know what I mean? And so, and you know, so it's like, okay, how would that feel? I would still say I love them, honestly, because I don't want you to judge me for saying I don't love them now. But the nature of that love would be different. Yeah, you know, and uh, this is not necessarily even where your mind was going, but it but it is. I'm just I'm just owning this is where my head goes. If I was just given that sentence, I'm like, well, that's really conditional.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

So is the nature and wow, this could get very, very dangerous. People got people got killed for these sort of things because you can so easily touch into heresies. Uh I don't I hate to break it to you, Jason, but the church has some spotted history.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Uh it's not like you've gotten fired for this.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Come on, man. So the here's here's the struggle that I have I have I have with this, because like we talk about this all the time with the um the temptation in the desert with Jesus. Like there had to be moments for Jesus where there was like there was legitimate temptation to not follow through, to not get down in his life, to not take up and follow the commands of of the Father immediately. And again, like what to what degree what that looked like, I mean, I you know I I don't know, but there had to be some level of temptation that was truly real, otherwise he we otherwise a lot of the things that Jesus has are not true. Um and so with this, the idea of like Jesus does have uh the ability, the authority to not follow the command of God here. And so I'm just I I'm I'm struggling because I think for Jesus to know Jesus to not give give up his life would mean that he is like he isn't he isn't the Jesus we know. And so that's what I struggle with. Like when somebody in in in it turns out uh a couple you know, husband is actually just like a dirt bag loser, really bad guy, and and nobody knew and he was doing this whole bunch of almost a classic serial killer, yeah. That's that sort of thing, like man, dad, that sort of thing, and and the person's afterwards gotta like deal with like I had this love for a person that is actually not there, like who I thought he was, yeah. Not even thought he was, and it's like was like how how do you how do you quantify those relationships? How do you think about it? And it's like is that a piece of here of like where the father like maybe wouldn't love Jesus because like for Jesus to not give up his life is so not that that's so far out of who Jesus is, right, and the the self-sacrificial nature of of the Trinity that um that for for Jesus not to do this would be the equivalent of like like that's not the same person, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Well, and is this the does it would this and I'm you know there's so much I don't understand about this, but would this be like, yeah, everybody thought the devil uh was doing an awesome job until he didn't, you know what I mean? And he changed this God who knows everything, certainly then he would have known this, and and then it gets you into this part, it's like, oh, what a shame my brain isn't God-sized, you know, because then I know how to think about this. I I think I'm just kind of coming out a little bit from the actual guts of the discussion and saying, I think this is really healthy to to have the question. And sometimes I'll ask a question, I'll be like, Man, I'm really perplexed, and then you'll offer something like that. And now I'm not. And I think it's really healthy for me to go, man, I'm really perplexed, and you go, Yeah, me too. All right. You know what I mean? Because it it it reminds us when I come up with answers, I'm like, praise God, God gave me a mind to understand this part of him a little bit better. But when I don't, it reminds me, oh yeah, my salvation, my relationship with him isn't dependent on me understanding him fully, you know. It's dependent on me trusting him with this. And honestly, it's easy to trust God when he makes sense to me. It's when he doesn't make sense to me. And I've seen a lot of people's faith are like, oh man, I really trust God, I really trust God. I'm like, well, I'm betting everything you know about God is agreement with you up to this point.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

That's good, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

You know, I'm that's not I'm not betting. I'm wondering, that's a better word. And then what happens when you cross that line? Because eventually, my friends, somebody dies that you think shouldn't have died, or somebody gets betrayed that you like that shouldn't be. And you're right. You know, a very bad thing happened. We weren't created to die. Um, and yet uh that happens all the time. We weren't created to experience this sinfulness, and yet here we are. And so that idea of being able to accept when it makes sense, and that's good, but also to accept when it doesn't make sense, there there's a part there, and man, so many disclaimers I can even argue myself about nuance here, but there is that idea. But I do love the thought of uh if anything, it it makes me amazed by Jesus because I'm like, I'm reminded he didn't have to do this. He did not have to do this, he had a choice, and that just amplifies how impressed I am by and by him. But yeah, it is it's a perplexing sentence for me.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Yeah, there's a oh, I want to get to what perplexes you real quick, but I think all oftentimes I'm very alarmed in in life, uh like where we are today as a culture, about where our society could go. Um there's a lot of different strains that seem to be like seem to be like just really toxic and really bad for human flourishing. Um and so like I find myself constantly not constantly worried, but I I find myself uh very concerned for lots of different people um and their well-being. And I think one of the things I always keep trying to remind myself um is that like my Jesus' job was was ultimately to def to save the world. Um But um for Jesus to save the world, it took him every single day choosing to trust God. It took him choosing every single day to make those little decisions on his way to the cross. Um the choice for the cross wasn't a singular decision to save the world in that single single moment. It was a lifetime of decisions, a lifetime of commitment. And for me, my job is not to save the world, I'm not Jesus. Um, but how I help be a solution for saving the world of of of bringing about his kingdom is that I I make these I make these small decisions every single day um that that do help God save the world, do help Jesus save the world. Um and in that way I believe one day it will be saved, it will all be redeemed and I'll be saved. Um and so um just like Jesus every single day had to make those decisions um that led him to the you know to the bit to the cross, I have to make this those same decisions that helped me pick up mine.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah, I I I want to jump into what perplexes me. Um, and it has to do with this is a common perplexion for me. Let me frame it this way. If you gave me the list of things, like just bullet pointed, okay, Jason, you're the savior of the world, and you're gonna have to not even the savior of the world, like I'm not dying on a cross at the end because obviously I'm not perfect, uh, or the son of God or any number of things, but uh, he's like, You you're the communicator of all these things that Jesus would say. I would do this so much differently. And a lot of it has to do with I was in a situation a few weeks ago where I ask the congregation who I love and respect, and I consider like the vast majority of them, not just disciples, but friends. I asked them a question that I thought would have been a slam dunk. Everybody's like, Yeah, yeah. And like nobody responded. And I was like, Does this mean it came too fast? Does this mean this? Does it mean that? And that right there, that self-concept as a successful teacher, as a uh, how do I know if I'm doing this right? And Jesus' ability to communicate, like these are very deep truths. And see, for me, I'm like, okay, when I said the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Now I'm gonna give you six hours on that. And now, when I said I'm calling people from everywhere, I'm like, the lack of clarity, and we've we've discussed this at other times with him saying in Matthew 13, where it's like, yeah, I tell parables because people won't understand. I'm like, that still is mind-blowing. And the the bigger perplexion, probably for me, is like, how do I, how am I satisfied? I do the best I can to communicate, even this very podcast. Like, how many people will listen to this, or of the percentage of people listen to this, and they'll be like, yeah, there was nothing good there, or I didn't learn anything there, or or this kind of thing, which on one hand it's like, okay, you know, that's fine. But if I had the pressure that Jesus had, I'm like, is this mattering? And maybe that's what he's praying, but he's such at peace to share deep truths and be like, yeah, you don't get it. Hmm. All right. You don't have the ears. That is mind-blowing. I just can't live my life like that. I can't be Jesus, is what I'm moaning.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

What a, what a what a what a revelation, what a bummer to come to. Ultimately, what what uh that would that makes me want to go on a uh diatribe about um all sermons have to have like three points that are all like bolted and it all leads up to that. Uh drives me crazy. I do wonder in life, whether it be in terms of a teaching podcast, whether it be sermons, whether it be our relations with other people. I I get the sense, I think I I do wonder Jesus with his teachings and his his parables will talk, you know, let let he who has ears hear, you know, or I've heard one translation of that is do you have ears? You should listen. I I do wonder sometimes like in our day-to-day life, like what is that a better, is that a better way of living? Is that a better way of existing in the world?

SPEAKER_00 34:36

I can't imagine it's not, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

And so maybe my maybe that is not at all what this passage was about, but I do wonder as like as as a sheep and as as we listen to his voice, um, he's trusting he's trusting me that I'm gonna hear his voice um and that I'm gonna respond to it. And maybe when I go out in the world and I'm trying to speak on behalf of Jesus, or you know, I'm trying to speak with his with his love, um, maybe I need to be more okay with the idea that, hey, somebody, some people are gonna have ears, other people are gonna be earless. Um, and my job is not to provide ears for the earless. And so, however that hits you, listener, grace, peace, and love.