Kevin Palmieri
(0:00) There are things that you can do forever. (0:03) You can do them every single day. (0:05) You can be really good, really consistent.(0:08) You can make them a habit and you still won't win because the things that you're doing aren't actually the things that are going to bring you closer to success. (0:14) But how do you know if you've never done it before?
Alan Lazaros
(0:17) Do you remember the scientific method from school? (0:20) You have a hypothesis. (0:22) You do an experiment.(0:25) You see the results and you draw a new conclusion. (0:29) I think life is a lot like that. (0:30) However, how long do you run the experiment?(0:33) How long till you decide whether to can it and try something else or to keep running the compound effect? (0:38) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:41) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.
Kevin Palmieri
(0:43) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazaros. (0:46) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.
Alan Lazaros
(0:52) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.
Kevin Palmieri
(0:59) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.
Alan Lazaros
(1:15) Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:21) Welcome to Next Level University.
Kevin Palmieri
(1:27) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,576, Patience vs. (1:32) Pivot. (1:33) We have a client.(1:34) She's amazing. (1:34) She is a bestselling author. (1:38) No, sorry.(1:38) She's not a bestselling author. (1:40) She is an award-winning author. (1:41) She would want me to get that right.(1:43) International keynote speaker, super successful. (1:45) Awesome. (1:46) Awesome person.(1:47) I was with her in person getting content and she asked a question. (1:51) She said, I have this event coming up. (1:53) What do I do to fill it?(1:54) I'll just throw out a couple of social media posts and that should be it, right? (1:57) I was like, that's not going to work at all. (1:59) She's like, we can do some paid ads.(2:01) I said, you definitely can. (2:03) That also is not going to work at all. (2:04) Not like you think.(2:06) She said, there's only 20 tickets. (2:08) I said, yeah, okay. (2:09) Between now and the event, I need you to message 100 people and that's a good start.(2:15) One fifth will come through. (2:16) That's a good start. (2:17) The event is being canceled because that did not happen.(2:21) Again, I kind of predicted that. (2:24) This person was almost too patient in a way and then it got to the point where they threw sheer pain and what probably feels like embarrassment to them ended up pivoting. (2:35) But my goal with talking to them six weeks ago was, hey, the strategy that you currently have is one that you're going to be patient for and it's not going to work.(2:48) You need to pivot now based on the understanding that this isn't going to work. (2:51) If she didn't have somebody in her ear, she might not have that awareness, right?
Alan Lazaros
(2:54) Did you tell her you've done nine events? (2:59) Yes. (2:59) And I said also- It's not just talking.
Kevin Palmieri
(3:01) No, no, no. (3:02) And we've been doing social media for a long time.
Alan Lazaros
(3:04) I know a lot of people- We've also been doing, we did group coaching for 23 groups now.
Kevin Palmieri
(3:08) We sold hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tickets to events and or coaching. (3:13) Dozens of things.
Alan Lazaros
(3:14) Hundreds of tickets to dozens of things.
Kevin Palmieri
(3:16) It's not what you think it is. (3:17) So my goal with that was to say, hey, I know you think you're going to be patient and this is going to work out. (3:22) I think we need to pivot.(3:23) We didn't end up pivoting based on the decision that she made and now she's canceling the whole thing. (3:29) It's a good lesson for her. (3:30) She's somebody who's very focused on learning lessons, but it could have been avoided for sure.
Alan Lazaros
(3:35) Yeah. (3:36) We were pretty ignorant to that at the beginning as well.
Kevin Palmieri
(3:39) Well, that's how I was like, hey, listen, I know.
Alan Lazaros
(3:41) Yeah. (3:41) I've been there.
Kevin Palmieri
(3:42) I know. (3:43) Right now, you are bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. (3:46) You're like, this isn't going to work.(3:48) The ship's sinking. (3:49) I'm telling you, the ship's sinking. (3:51) Follow the mice.(3:52) For sure.
Alan Lazaros
(3:53) The rats know.
Kevin Palmieri
(3:53) Yeah. (3:53) Follow the rats from Titanic.
Alan Lazaros
(3:56) Yeah. (3:57) The scientific method in its simplest form. (3:59) Number one, observe.(4:00) You notice something. (4:02) Number two, question. (4:03) Why?(4:04) How? (4:04) How? (4:04) Why?(4:05) Why? (4:05) How? (4:06) You notice that people have events online.(4:09) You ask, how are they doing it? (4:12) Ah, a couple of social media posts. (4:13) No big deal.(4:15) Hypothesis. (4:16) Make a testable prediction. (4:17) I bet you if I do five posts, I'll get 50 people.(4:22) Wrong. (4:22) No, it depends. (4:24) I have a client who's doing an event in 20 days.(4:26) I said, just so you know, we were on earlier. (4:29) The next 20 days of your life are going to be horrible. (4:32) Awful.(4:33) Just be in survival mode for everything else. (4:36) Tell all your friends and family that are used to having you at optimal levels that you are going to be unavailable, emotionally spent. (4:42) This is going to be horrible.(4:43) You got this. (4:44) You got this, but it's going to be awful. (4:47) Prepare right now.(4:48) It was really good. (4:50) She's like, we're seeing each other in two weeks? (4:51) Yes.(4:52) All right. (4:52) Number four, experiment. (4:53) Test it.(4:54) Do the five posts immediately so that you can tell whether or not it's working. (4:58) Number five, analyze. (5:00) Hmm.(5:00) Nobody signed up. (5:03) Hmm. (5:05) Conclusion.(5:05) I am the worst. (5:06) No. (5:07) Accept, reject, or revise the hypothesis.(5:09) And then seven, repeat. (5:11) Replicate and refine. (5:12) Listen, I know this is boring, but like for 10 years coming up in March, Kevin and I have been doing the scientific method.(5:19) Why do you know more than her? (5:21) Why? (5:22) Did you read a book or write a book on events or did you do nine events and 23 group coaching programs for the last fucking nine years?
Kevin Palmieri
(5:31) That and the majority of them went differently than I expected. (5:35) So I got a more, I got a deeper understanding over and over of like, Oh, this actually, Oh, that doesn't matter. (5:41) Yep.(5:42) Like that doesn't, people used to come to me all the time and be like, all right, so I'm going to start coaching. (5:46) I'm going to have like, I'll have my website set up. (5:47) I'll have all my email.(5:48) It's like, honestly, you don't need any of that. (5:51) No, no. (5:51) Like I need people who need to go to like a landing page, send them a message.
Alan Lazaros
(5:56) Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri
(5:56) Say, Hey Alan, long time. (5:58) No talk brother. (5:59) Uh, I know last time we talked, you were interested in blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.(6:03) I've actually started doing some coaching around that. (6:05) I'd love to offer you a free call. (6:07) Here's my calendar link.(6:08) If you're interested. (6:08) I wouldn't even do that. (6:10) No strings attached, but, but you don't need like, no, you don't need a fucking website.(6:14) No, you don't need a website.
Alan Lazaros
(6:16) But I, so that's the thing is like, here's the other thing too. (6:19) How many times would someone have to be rejected though? (6:21) What do you think would happen?(6:22) Like probably 10 messages. (6:24) You get three free calls, one client. (6:27) I always use a hundred people come to the mall, 30 people see, come into your store, 10 of them buy something.(6:36) Three of them come back next week. (6:38) One of them works there. (6:40) I got to revise that because I think it's a little off.(6:42) Yeah. (6:43) Um, I, I always use that in group coaching because Amy works with us, even though at one point she was just a listener, right? (6:50) The point though is a hundred people come into the mall and 70 of them don't even come into your store.(6:57) And, and that's a good metaphor for social media. (6:59) A hundred people see your post. (7:00) That does, that doesn't mean that they're like engaging with it or clicking on it.(7:04) We all swipe past most things. (7:06) I mean, it is a numbers game. (7:07) Yeah.(7:08) All right.
Kevin Palmieri
(7:08) So we have to challenge, we have to challenge ourselves here because the goal was to come up with the five ways to know, right? (7:13) The five ways to know it. (7:15) The hard thing is, and we've learned this 80% of the ticket sales come in the last 20% of time, usually.
Alan Lazaros
(7:20) Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri
(7:21) For an event.
Alan Lazaros
(7:22) Five ways to know.
Kevin Palmieri
(7:23) What? (7:24) Five ways to know.
Alan Lazaros
(7:24) Whether or not to pivot or to.
Kevin Palmieri
(7:26) Whether to be patient or to pivot.
Alan Lazaros
(7:28) Yeah. (7:29) Cool. (7:29) You go first.
Kevin Palmieri
(7:30) Oh, okay. (7:32) I think number one is you have to study the past. (7:36) So like, if you don't know anything about, if you don't know anything about events, if you don't know anything about marketing, if you don't know anything about social media marketing, if you don't know anything about human behavior, you're going to have no idea what to expect.(7:50) You couldn't possibly form in at all. (7:53) An accurate hypothesis. (7:54) Couldn't possibly.(7:55) Couldn't possibly. (7:57) Here's one. (7:58) This is my statement.(7:59) Number one. (8:00) If your hypothesis is based on what you hope happens, you're fucked. (8:07) You're in trouble.(8:08) I do love it. (8:09) You're in trouble.
Alan Lazaros
(8:11) Yeah. (8:11) A hundred percent.
Kevin Palmieri
(8:12) You know, like, yeah, I know Evel Knievel must've thought he could jump over the thing before he did it. (8:17) Yes. (8:17) But the dude broke every bone in his body.(8:20) So sometimes he was wrong.
Alan Lazaros
(8:22) A lot of times. (8:23) Actually, most of the time.
Kevin Palmieri
(8:25) Many of the times. (8:25) That's why he's famous. (8:26) That's why he's famous.(8:27) So that would be one. (8:28) Yeah. (8:28) If your hypothesis is based on what you hope.(8:32) Is based on your desires. (8:34) Hope is not a strategy.
Alan Lazaros
(8:35) No, it's not a good one.
Kevin Palmieri
(8:36) So that's number one for me.
Alan Lazaros
(8:37) All right. (8:37) Number two, you have to look at the data. (8:42) You have to measure something.(8:44) You have to. (8:44) So the person who's doing a very large event in the Bahamas on the 21st that I coach, we measured everything. (8:55) Here's how many sponsors.(8:57) Here's how many tickets. (8:59) Here's how many messages. (9:00) Everything's measured.(9:01) So when the data does not indicate progress, because with the scale, this is a good metaphor. (9:11) Sometimes the scale goes up, even though you're in a deficit. (9:14) So you got to have enough data to see a trend line.
Kevin Palmieri
(9:19) So that much, how much, what percentage of data on the runway do you need? (9:24) Two weeks minimum.
Alan Lazaros
(9:26) I got to go. (9:27) You got to go two weeks. (9:27) It does depend.(9:28) Obviously, like for weight loss, I usually say you got to give me two weeks before you completely change the for this specific events, the events in 20 days. (9:38) Oh yeah. (9:39) Well, so when does she change?(9:42) When does she pivot? (9:44) The moment she doesn't get immediate results. (9:46) And that is a good answer.(9:49) It depends on the timeline. (9:51) It depends on not my answer. (9:53) You're you're.(9:54) Yeah. (9:54) The point is, are you telling me? (9:56) Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri
(9:56) Yeah.
Alan Lazaros
(9:57) It's a really good answer. (9:58) This is a really good answer that I'm about to give. (9:59) No, this depends on the time perspective.(10:03) If the deadline isn't, if the event is in 21 days, which it is, you have to pivot way quicker. (10:10) You can't, you don't have the luxury of patience.
Kevin Palmieri
(10:12) Mm.
Alan Lazaros
(10:13) And so the answer is it completely depends on the timeline. (10:18) Okay. (10:19) Okay.
Kevin Palmieri
(10:20) My number three, which would be my number two. (10:23) What am I going to get to? (10:24) You're going to get to, and then we'll do one combined.(10:26) It's usually how we do it, right? (10:27) To make it fair. (10:29) I don't care.(10:30) I care about fairness.
Alan Lazaros
(10:31) Okay. (10:31) Sounds good.
Kevin Palmieri
(10:32) I'll do number, I'll do all three. (10:33) No, I remember it. (10:35) Go ahead.(10:36) There you go. (10:36) Hammer him off. (10:37) Number two for me, number three in totality, you don't actually want more of the result that you said you wanted.(10:47) That's dude, how many people, I don't know what episode we did recently. (10:52) You have to at least be willing to stay on the treadmill. (10:56) That's delivering the success to you.(10:58) Give me an example. (10:58) What, what, why would you not want the result? (11:01) I don't get it.(11:02) Because the result makes life harder, right? (11:04) So for me, like I dude, there's only so many clients I can get that I have to travel to. (11:09) You're going to be, I got to be very careful.(11:10) I can't have 15 clients that want me to travel to them. (11:12) There's no way I can't do it. (11:14) Can't unless, I mean, you can, right?
Alan Lazaros
(11:17) It's like, well, I got to charge you more if you want to swap it, but yeah, but that's why that doesn't land. (11:22) What is she going to get 500 people at the event? (11:24) That's going to be somehow a bad thing.(11:25) Not for her. (11:26) No. (11:27) Okay.(11:27) No, no. (11:28) That's why that's a sucky one.
Kevin Palmieri
(11:29) If she, okay. (11:31) Let's say this goes amazing and she's like, I don't, that was fucking terrible. (11:36) I missed my kids stuff.(11:38) I wasn't present with my partner. (11:40) I can't be doing that for a month every year. (11:43) And people are like, you got to put this event on again.(11:44) And you don't want to that time to pivot. (11:47) Sometimes you can be successful at the detriment of your success yourself. (11:50) If it's not a lot.(11:51) Okay.
Alan Lazaros
(11:52) If the results become time to pivot, if the results you're going for end up being misaligned, misaligned and unsustainable. (12:00) I think that one always is a blind spot for me. (12:02) Cause it's like, did you not think that through?(12:06) You know? (12:06) No.
Kevin Palmieri
(12:07) Cause everybody's it's like, um, dude, you want to make it to the top of the mountain. (12:10) You don't worry how you're going to get down. (12:11) Did you fucking wake?(12:12) Let me make it to the top.
Alan Lazaros
(12:13) I want the dumbest shit I've ever heard. (12:16) I'm not saying it's not, it's not great, but what are you going to stay at the top of Mount Everest and be like, I did it. (12:20) And then die.(12:21) You've got to worry about the trip back.
Kevin Palmieri
(12:23) I concur. (12:24) I yeah, I concur. (12:26) I concur.(12:26) But I'm just saying like people think about the apex, not that they think about the top that is because usually the top is the way out of where you are. (12:35) So it's like, well, I need to get a client. (12:36) It's like, awesome.(12:36) I got a client. (12:37) Amazing. (12:37) Oh fuck.(12:38) This is way more work than I thought it was going to be. (12:40) Well, I'm going to get, I'll get 50 clients and then it's like, oh shit, I can't even there. (12:44) My calendar is full.(12:45) I can't even pee in between my coaching calls. (12:46) Like, oh shit. (12:48) You know, you might not want to think that through happens.(12:52) Sometimes it happens not faster than you think, but you got to think it through.
Alan Lazaros
(12:56) But yeah, I think a lot. (12:57) So you do think a lot.
Kevin Palmieri
(12:58) Yeah.
Alan Lazaros
(12:59) I think you got to think about the downsides. (13:00) Yeah. (13:01) Uh, okay.(13:05) This is when to pivot versus be patient. (13:08) Yes. (13:10) Same episode still here.(13:11) You got to pivot.
Kevin Palmieri
(13:12) Yeah.
Alan Lazaros
(13:13) When, when the success is at the detriment of another goal or core value you value as much or you value more. (13:28) So for example, I was aging really poorly in my early thirties and I was like, oh my God, oh my God, I have to fix this. (13:36) This is not good.(13:37) Right. (13:37) I look like hell. (13:39) Uh, I pivoted and I'm much better now, but there was a moment where I was like, I don't like look well, this is not good.(13:47) Right. (13:48) This is, I need to play the long game. (13:49) So I, so I would say that when, when your success or failure, whatever you're doing is detrimental to what you value longterm, you always have to prioritize the future over the present.(14:03) You have to, uh, there's very few exceptions to that unless you are actually in the woods, actually fighting a real bear. (14:12) Like you have to prioritize the present for that because you're going to die if you don't. (14:17) Uh, but otherwise, I mean, for the most part, you really do need to prioritize the future.(14:21) Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri
(14:22) All right. (14:22) Number five combined.
Alan Lazaros
(14:27) How do you know when to stick in that's a good one. (14:31) Like when you see any evidence of progress whatsoever, if you see any evidence of progress, most likely you should keep doing that with one caveat. (14:46) I think the reason why this episode is sucky from my perspective, uh, seriously, is because the scientific method, you're supposed to improve it at all times.(14:59) Like this episode in real time, I would do better next time. (15:05) So how do you know when to be patient or when to pivot? (15:10) It's always both.(15:11) And that's why I think I didn't like it from the very beginning because it's always, you have to pivot and be patient. (15:16) So a better episode would have been, uh, if we go back in time is like, how do you know what part to pivot on and what part to be patient on because weight training, be patient, pivot your workout though. (15:28) Like pivot the way you train every time a little bit, a little bit, a little bit too patient though.(15:35) Yeah. (15:36) And you can pivot too much. (15:37) You can exactly.(15:39) Yeah. (15:39) I think so. (15:40) Meaningful progress in meaningful time.(15:41) That's why this is so hard because there is no, it's all an optimal stopping problem that has to be recalculated. (15:46) It's like, uh, the GPS and the self-driving car metaphor. (15:49) It's, it's like, Oh shit, we got to take a left because there's a detour.(15:53) Oh, turns out that store, we email and I, we went to a REI. (16:00) There was apparently one in Millbury, according to Google. (16:03) Nope.(16:04) Doesn't exist. (16:05) Not there. (16:06) Drove no store.(16:08) Okay. (16:09) We got to pivot. (16:10) I just, you have to be constantly updating data and then pivoting based on data at all times.(16:17) There has to be a feedback loop. (16:18) That's where I'll end. (16:19) I'm done.(16:20) Feedback loop. (16:21) There has to be inputs, outputs, measure, adjust in everything, dude, you and I, what are you not taking feedback on? (16:27) I'm, I told you recently, it's like, dude, I got to dial in the expenses every day.(16:31) Again, the business expenses every day, because I need that feedback loop every single day so that I can send it to you so that you and I can make better choices and I can have you stop getting Starbucks on the road. (16:41) I'm joking. (16:42) But for all I know you are hammering Starbucks.(16:44) I don't even fucking know. (16:45) I'm obviously joking.
Kevin Palmieri
(16:46) Feedback loops. (16:47) I have, I have some Starbucks when I'm traveling. (16:49) I try not to, but I do.(16:53) Well, now I know why the, uh, my little inner girl is like, hey man, get some. (16:58) Uh, the fifth one, this is the one I would say you have yours always, uh, adjust and all that. (17:04) Whatever it is you said.(17:05) I wasn't really paying attention.
Alan Lazaros
(17:07) Adapt and overcome.
Kevin Palmieri
(17:07) You lost me. (17:08) Feedback loop, man. (17:09) You lost me when you said we're terrible and this episode's terrible.(17:11) We should do it all over again. (17:12) I was like, dude, that's fucking terrible. (17:14) I don't agree with any of that.(17:16) What I would say is, I think most people are probably on my end where they jumped too soon, but be patient with the lessons you're learning. (17:26) I think you, I think you're on the other end where you justify it. (17:29) It's like, I would come to you and be like, I don't know, man, it's fucking time.(17:31) Like, I think it's time for us to can this. (17:32) You'd be like, there's still lessons to learn here, brother.
Alan Lazaros
(17:35) Yeah. (17:35) And then you would always say we would learn lessons somewhere else too. (17:38) We don't have to learn lessons in the bottom of this cave.(17:41) We could learn lessons out on the ocean.
Kevin Palmieri
(17:43) But I do think I was of the mind of jump. (17:46) Yeah.
Alan Lazaros
(17:47) The quits too quick kid. (17:49) You stick with it in life. (17:51) Never quit.(17:52) Like with your mom. (17:53) Never quit in life. (17:54) But you quit stuff all the time.(17:56) What a paradox.
Kevin Palmieri
(17:57) Yeah. (17:57) Well, you know, we have certain people that we were around. (18:00) It's like, I don't know.(18:01) I think I've learned enough lessons from this person.
Alan Lazaros
(18:03) You were more optimal than I thought.
Kevin Palmieri
(18:05) But I do think that that probably is somewhat of a skill and, or I jumped too soon.
Alan Lazaros
(18:11) So I think you jumped too soon. (18:12) I jumped too slow. (18:13) That's a, I think we're driving to five and for the listeners, you got to figure out which end you're on.(18:17) Do you quit stuff too fast? (18:19) Come on, dude. (18:20) When I look back at my life, Alan, you didn't have to date her for three years to figure out that this wasn't going to fucking work.(18:28) You're like, I'm still learning. (18:29) Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri
(18:29) Yeah.
Alan Lazaros
(18:30) It's a lot to learn. (18:31) And then I invested that in my next relationship, but, but yeah, I stayed too long. (18:34) You quit too early period.(18:36) And we need to figure out what five is and drive to five and what is five represents optimal.
Kevin Palmieri
(18:42) Well, I think if you're very abundant, you have a lot of self-belief, you probably stay too long. (18:46) If you're very scarce and you don't have a lot of self-belief, you probably jump early because you're trying to save yourself.
Alan Lazaros
(18:50) Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri
(18:51) Blanket statement, but that's what I would go with. (18:52) That's what I would go with. (18:53) That's a good one.(18:54) All right. (18:54) Cool. (18:55) If you are out there and you are trying to figure whether you should be patient or pivot, you don't know the strategy or you don't know the scientific method, reach out to Alan.(19:02) Help you with all of that. (19:03) Literally that is what success is. (19:05) It is a system.(19:06) And if you don't know the system, Alan does, and he can help you with it for sure. (19:09) And if one of the things you're trying to get better at is fitness, you want to be more accountable. (19:13) You want to be more consistent.(19:14) There is a system for that too. (19:15) Public accountability is huge. (19:17) That is what the next level fitness accountability group is for.(19:20) It is a free invite only WhatsApp group. (19:23) And all that means is like, just message us and we'll let you in. (19:26) We have definitely turned people down because they weren't a good fit, but if you're a positive human trying to do good things in the world, you'll fit in just fine.(19:33) All right. (19:34) Cool. (19:34) As always, we love you.(19:35) Appreciate you. (19:35) Grateful for each and every one of you. (19:36) If you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we'll be here every single day to help you get there.(19:42) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential. (19:44) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (19:48) We love connecting with the Next Level family.
Alan Lazaros
(19:51) We mean it when we say family. (19:53) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (19:56) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(20:00) Thank you again, and we will talk to you tomorrow.