Tender Strength in the Valley: Stories of Hope with Carol Evans

Caregiving can start with a few check-ins, then turn into a full-time reality before you even have words for it. We sit down with Carol Evans, a mom, business owner, and fellow podcast host, as she shares the tender and difficult story of caring for her mom through a short, intense battle with pancreatic cancer. When symptoms looked like ordinary aging until a stage four diagnosis changed everything, Carol found herself balancing love, urgency, and the painful truth that an adult parent can still refuse help.

We talk honestly about the day-to-day stress of family caregiving: the “push or pause” decisions, the discomfort of advocating to medical professionals when your loved one says “I’m fine,” and what it feels like to manage updates, appointments, and end-of-life care while trying not to lose the relationship. Carol also reflects on palliative care and hospice care, how resistance can tie a caregiver’s hands, and why having a knowledgeable support team can make the difference between panic and steadiness.

Faith is woven through the whole journey, especially when spiritual routines collapse under exhaustion. Carol shares how Lamentations became a lifeline for grief, and we explore the reality of dying that movies rarely show, plus the healing that can come from hospice education and grief counseling after loss. If you’re walking through caregiver stress, anticipatory grief, or the guilt that sometimes follows death, you’ll find language, perspective, and hope here. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review telling us what part of caregiving you’re in right now.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Rayna Neises 0:06

Hi. I am Rayna Neises, your host of A Season of Caring Podcast, where we share stories of hope with family caregivers pushing past the busyness and loneliness of caregiving to see God even in this season. Today I'm excited to introduce you to Carole. Carole Evans lives in East Tennessee with her husband and two boys. She is a podcast host, a business owner, and loves talking about the Bible every chance that she can. Welcome Carol. It's so glad to have you here today.

Carole Evans 0:31

Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be a guest today.

Rayna Neises 0:35

So tell us a little bit about your caregiving.

When Loved Ones Resist Help

Carole Evans 0:38

Thank you. Just for the honor of talking about this topic, it's a topic that is, I feel like more emotional, more sensitive, and, uh, I wish I had had this podcast as a resource. When I was a caregiver, so I was a caregiver for my mom through her journey of pancreatic cancer. She was diagnosed in August of 2024 in the passed away in February of 2025. So it was a brief battle with pancreatic cancer. She had symptoms for months before, but they were symptoms that probably every 71-year-old experiences. Joint pain, a little tired stomach hurt from time to time. And then by the time we went to the doctor and got the CT scan, she was already at stage four, was already in her liver and spread. And so those liver markers were already pretty high in every lab. After they just continued to climb higher. So that caregiving, at first, it started out as, kind of some cautionary things because she was getting really tired. So I would go check in with her from time to time, but she didn't feel like she needed help yet. She did need help, but she was very resistant to it at first. And that was hard because you're in this weird balance of she needed help. She didn't want the help and, she didn't love the fact that she had cancer and it was hard. And so that was a really difficult journey of me trying to decide when do I push and when do I just let her win? And that was hard. Mm-hmm.

Rayna Neises 2:13

Yeah, it's a real balancing act, and I think that's true. Anytime we're caring for someone an adult, right? Because they have rights and they have the ability to have control of their own person, at the same time, their perspective is probably not clear. And I think that's true even as I look at caring for people with dementia, which is where my background comes in, is that there's a term, actually, it's just a medical term called Agni oea, where they actually don't know that anything is wrong

Carole Evans 2:46

Oh, wow.

Rayna Neises 2:48

Up to 50% of the people who are living with dementia actually never understand

Carole Evans 2:54

Wow.

Rayna Neises 2:55

not cognitively functioning normal.

Carole Evans 2:56

Hmm. Did you think that's easier or harder?

Rayna Neises 2:59

harder

Carole Evans 2:59

Hmm. Really?

Rayna Neises 3:02

They will fight with you on every

Carole Evans 3:03

Oh, okay.

Rayna Neises 3:05

Because they don't think that they're impaired, so they think they should be able to do everything,

Carole Evans 3:09

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 3:10

they're doing is completely normal. And so when you're trying to step in, take the car away, those kinds of things, they don't, there's nothing wrong with me. You're just being mean.

Carole Evans 3:20

Hmm

Rayna Neises 3:21

And I think sometimes that denial can very much look like that

Carole Evans 3:24

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 3:25

diagnosis as well, because it's, it just, I always hear caregivers almost always say, well, they were just so stubborn.

Carole Evans 3:34

yeah.

Rayna Neises 3:34

I really haven't met a person who isn't,

Carole Evans 3:36

Yep. That's

Rayna Neises 3:37

you know,

Carole Evans 3:37

so true. Mm-hmm.

Rayna Neises 3:38

truth is we're all stubborn, we're all see it our own

Carole Evans 3:42

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 3:42

and want it to go our

Carole Evans 3:44

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 3:44

And so when they're living with something like a terminal diagnosis, I can see not wanting to admit it,

Carole Evans 3:51

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 3:52

to slow down

Carole Evans 3:53

Mm-hmm.

Rayna Neises 3:53

it then, it's almost like giving up.

Carole Evans 3:55

Right.

Rayna Neises 3:56

So that's really tough balance, especially like I said, from the outside, our perspective is so much clearer because we're dealing with our own emotions, but it's not the same as losing that independence,

Carole Evans 4:08

right.

Rayna Neises 4:10

and that is one of the toughest things. When I think about aging gracefully, I just, I'm like, Lord,

Carole Evans 4:17

I know. please help me Yes.

Rayna Neises 4:19

To do that

Carole Evans 4:20

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 4:21

I know I'm stubborn.

Carole Evans 4:22

Yes, I know.

Rayna Neises 4:24

That's, that's, I'm not gonna be nice either.

Carole Evans 4:26

No.

Rayna Neises 4:26

I

Carole Evans 4:27

Oh,

Rayna Neises 4:27

it to be that way,

Carole Evans 4:28

no. For sure.

Rayna Neises 4:30

tough. It's really

The Daughter To Caregiver Shift

Carole Evans 4:31

Yeah, it is.

Rayna Neises 4:32

you able to talk to her about that or how did you handle that?

Carole Evans 4:35

We did, we kind of gently talked around the conversation. At first, one day she really was not at a place where she could drive herself anymore. Driving really wore her out. So she had the cognitive ability. That's what was really hard, is she cognitively knew where we were, where we needed to go, but driving herself, she would just get really worn out. I had left work early from a meeting and I went to the doctor's office. My dad had taken her there and then he had to go back to work. So I took her doctor's office and we went and got her medicine and then we went to her favorite Dollar Tree to get some thank you cards and I took her back home and I had a home office set up at my parents' house. So I worked from their house the rest of the day and I made sure she had lunch and we did all the things. And then I went to leave at the end of the day and I said, you good? You have dinner? Can I help you get? And she was just heating up some leftovers. So I said, can I help you heat those up? And she got really snippy and she said, Why are you here? And I said, well, just in case you need anything. And she said, is my diagnosis worse than what I think? And I wanted to say. Gee, mom, they gave you three to six months to live, so Yeah, it's pretty bad. And I, I didn't, yeah, I guess it's really bad here. And, and I said, Well mom, right now, you may not need me every minute, but you might tomorrow you might need me. So I just wanted to work from your house just in case you did. And in my mind, I wanted to get defensive and say like, I just drove you all over town because you can't drive yourself. And I just made you had lunch. you can't clean your house because you're too tired because that makes you so your body just working so hard to get defensive and defend, like how, look how hard I'm working here. Like I've adjusted my schedule at work. I've set up a home office here. And, she really was not at that place. That was about two months into it. She really was not at a place to accept that she needed the help. So it really wasn't until we were probably about a month before she passed away, maybe about two months before. She said, if you know some people that, have offered to help, maybe I could look at that list and I could approve some people to come help clean. And I said, okay. So we started just reaching out and I said, maybe after Christmas, as you said. Yeah. Not during the holidays, after Christmas. So we did, and then really that right after Christmas until February 3rd, it got really bad. But at that point, that was the first time that she was able needing help.

Rayna Neises 7:16

Yeah,

Carole Evans 7:17

and her symptoms,

Rayna Neises 7:18

her idea.

Carole Evans 7:19

was her idea.

Rayna Neises 7:20

Yeah.

Carole Evans 7:20

okay with it as long as it was her idea.

Rayna Neises 7:22

Yes.

Carole Evans 7:23

but we had started to see more and more symptoms every day there was more things

Rayna Neises 7:28

Sure.

Carole Evans 7:30

we were starting to Google a lot. Because we just didn't know what else to do. And so we had a really good conversation one night, she was laying in the bed and I went and sat on her bed and I said, mom, I can't take you to the ER because we're gonna be waiting for a while and you don't have the strength to go to the ER And she said, I don't wanna go to the ER I said, okay. But if we don't go to the ER, I don't know what else to do because you need some help. And I think it might be time to call hospice in, because I think we need active medical advice and we need someone to call and I don't know what to do and I'm Googling how to help you every day. And I don't know if I'm looking at the right Google sites because I'm not a nurse and I don't know what to do. And she thought about it and she said, let me think about it. And she thought about it for a couple of hours and then she came back and she said, you can call them. And so we finally started to do that. But up until that point, from really August, September through January, it was, uh, it tricky.

Rayna Neises 8:30

Yeah, so I would assume from that conversation, the doctor didn't point you towards palliative care or even mention that

Carole Evans 8:38

they did, So they recommended that we do palliative care a lot earlier and she declined. They recommended pain medicine a lot earlier and she declined. And so

Rayna Neises 8:48

I.

Carole Evans 8:48

she really wanted as little medical intervention as possible. And she was just not comfortable with it. So it was a big struggle because even when they would ask her questions, she would say, no, I feel great. I feel fine. And they would leave. And you're like, I'm trying to call. I'm like, that's actually not true. She's not sleeping. And when she sits up, she's outta breath and she's not good. And I would go on to describe all the symptoms and that was difficult as a caregiver..

Rayna Neises 9:16

That you're behind her back,

Carole Evans 9:18

you know, am I in any way, like taking away, if she's like telling me how she really feels,

Rayna Neises 9:24

right?

Carole Evans 9:24

And she's trusting me, is this okay that I'm like tattling on her to the medical personnel that was a weird balance as a daughter to

Rayna Neises 9:32

sure.

Carole Evans 9:33

have this weird relationship and you shift from a daughter to a caregiver. And that was a change in our relationship, that just happened so much faster than I thought it would.

Rayna Neises 9:44

Mm-hmm. Well, and it's one that we don't really know how to do, and I always encourage people to add the hat,

Carole Evans 9:51

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 9:51

Not subtract a hat. So it's stacking it on top of

Carole Evans 9:55

Yes.

Rayna Neises 9:56

but it's difficult

Carole Evans 9:57

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 9:57

Is that line of, and sometimes even just using terminology like that, I'm

Carole Evans 10:02

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 10:03

Daughter hat off right now and I'm putting on my caregiver hat, and I'm really worried. I'm really concerned, so sometimes that can help a little

Carole Evans 10:10

Yes. Yeah.

Rayna Neises 10:12

Other thing in hearing your story that we had was the support of a concierge doctor. And that made such a big difference. I know exactly what you're talking about. You're out of your league,

Carole Evans 10:23

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 10:24

you have no idea,

Carole Evans 10:24

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 10:25

Something isn't right and you're just like, what do I do?

Carole Evans 10:27

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 10:28

gonna listen to me? And we found a, she was such a godsend, an amazing doctor that was private pay.

Carole Evans 10:35

Hmm.

Rayna Neises 10:35

And so she was on call. And so from things like he fell,

Carole Evans 10:39

Mm-hmm.

Rayna Neises 10:40

could call her and say, okay. He fell, and she would ask all the questions and then she would say, you can take him to the emergency room. If you do that, this is what it's gonna look

Carole Evans 10:50

Yep.

Rayna Neises 10:51

And this is what they will tell you. And if you don't, then this is what we'll

Carole Evans 10:56

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 10:56

an eye on this, and this, and you need to let me know if any of these things change. It just was so comforting to

Carole Evans 11:02

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 11:02

that feedback.

Carole Evans 11:03

Yes.

Rayna Neises 11:04

never forget he was constipated.

Carole Evans 11:06

Hmm.

Rayna Neises 11:07

he had, we tracked, we always tracked,

Carole Evans 11:10

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 11:10

so we knew how long it had been. So we called her and we were having this conversation with her. She's like, it's time for a suppository. And we're like, okay, so can we go to the emergency room? She's like, no, they will send you home. And I'm like,

Carole Evans 11:24

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rayna Neises 11:26

who can we call to do this?

Carole Evans 11:27

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 11:29

no, this is,

Carole Evans 11:30

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 11:30

what you're, you know, this is an expectation of a caregiver. And you're like.

Carole Evans 11:35

Like, are you sure? Like, is there anybody else? Yeah.

Rayna Neises 11:38

That doesn't make any sense to me at all. This seems like this is way out of our

Carole Evans 11:42

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 11:43

not have to do this. But

Carole Evans 11:44

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 11:45

I'm so thankful I had my sister and we were able to. She walked us through what to get and how to, you know, get

Carole Evans 11:51

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 11:52

And just all of those things that we needed to, to experience that. But it is you, it is so overwhelming and to not have any medical advice just feels, and that's one of the other things that I loved about day stay with dementia. We were able to have my dad in a day program. You had nurses

Carole Evans 12:11

Yep.

Rayna Neises 12:11

people that saw him also. So when we ran into something or if he, whatever,

Carole Evans 12:16

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 12:17

have that professional advice

Carole Evans 12:18

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 12:19

So I always talk about building that team because it's so important, but what I'm hearing you say is that mom was so opposed to it,

Carole Evans 12:28

Yeah,

Rayna Neises 12:29

that your hands were really tied. And that's a really hard place to be.

Respecting Wishes Near The End

Carole Evans 12:33

And early on I remember telling my husband when she was first diagnosed and I said, we know we don't have a lot of time, so whatever she decides here. We're just gonna go with it. We're gonna be respectful of whatever she decides. So we talked about that in the beginning and he was like, babe, of course. But that was harder. The longer the journey got,

Rayna Neises 12:54

Yeah.

Carole Evans 12:54

harder, it was harder not to push back on things. So she really wanted to do as much, all natural as she could.

Rayna Neises 13:01

Yeah.

Carole Evans 13:03

but she really believed that if she went the natural route, it would cure her cancer.

Rayna Neises 13:07

Hmm.

Carole Evans 13:07

I think it just made her feel like she was doing something like she's gonna her part to help her body and I do think her diet helped of a lot of her symptoms.

Rayna Neises 13:16

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 13:16

was never cure her from pancreatic cancer,

Rayna Neises 13:20

Right.

Carole Evans 13:21

but her, she was doing something,

Rayna Neises 13:23

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 13:24

but that was to hard to respect when she wouldn't eat certain foods. So someone brought over a delicious thing of like chicken noodle soup.

Rayna Neises 13:33

Yes.

Carole Evans 13:33

Hey, I'm gonna bring you some soup for dinner tonight from the fridge. Someone made it, a friend of yours made it and she said, oh, I can't have it. It's not organic chicken, but your dad can have it.

Rayna Neises 13:42

Hmm.

Carole Evans 13:43

You know? And so it was just so hard, to see her cling to that so tightly and she clung to that organic diet probably until. Two to weeks before she died, she was still really, really trying hard to do that. Um, right. Just maybe two weeks before she died, they recommended a tilted pillow to use, because she was coughing and she started coughing up blood and it was just not good. And she had some blood clots and it was just all, all the things that with the end of life.

Rayna Neises 14:18

Yeah.

Carole Evans 14:18

And I had really, up until that point, never been that close to someone and watch them daily die. And there is a grief that comes from watching someone die a little bit every day. And when the doctor recommended a tilted pillow. We bought one online we went to Walgreens and found one, and she hated it so much, and they said, we can bring you a hospital bed. And she said, I'll absolutely never sleep on a hospital bed.

Rayna Neises 14:45

Hmm.

Carole Evans 14:45

And so she went back to the tilted pillow and she used it on the lowest possible setting. And, they said, well, the next thing we can do is to start to give you morphine because your lungs need to relax a little bit and that'll help you take a deep breath.

Rayna Neises 15:00

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 15:00

She said, okay, I'll do that. And in my mind I'm like, you would rather have morphine than to sit up in a hospital bed. And she would not do it. And so, I remember sitting in the other room thinking like, this is ridiculous. But we had to go back to like, this is her journey. She's the one dealing with the diagnosis. She's the one who, her body die a little bit every day. This is not me. And selfishly I wanted to be like, this is. So, ugh. You know, and I wanna just,

Rayna Neises 15:28

Yes.

Carole Evans 15:28

I wanted to really impede my view on her, and that really wasn't my place. And so we never, I never crossed that line, except in my head, but I wanted to, every day, every day I wanted to cross that line. And I would come home and cross that line with my husband. I'll be like, David, you know what she did today? You know, and I would do that with David, but with mom, I am relieved and I think God just gave it a grace because there was a patience that I had and a grace that I had, but I honestly I didn't know that it was even in me to do that. I'd never been a caregiver before. Other than when my kids are sick, but really end of life care, it's just a different level. And I'd never done that before and I felt totally outta my element. And so really respecting her wishes, respecting what she wanted to do, respecting how she wanted to do it, was something that was very difficult. But it was a daily decision.

Rayna Neises 16:24

Yes. And I think that's a great way to put it. And I think we, even if we do cross the line as caregivers, we can still ask for

Carole Evans 16:31

Yeah,

Rayna Neises 16:32

We can still, to that person just

Carole Evans 16:35

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 16:35

sorry. It's hard for me to see you like

Carole Evans 16:38

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 16:38

We hear you.

Carole Evans 16:39

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 16:40

do what you want.

Carole Evans 16:40

right.

Rayna Neises 16:41

I think you can do that as a caregiver. And It is very hard. I look at, not my parents not having a voice, and I know that

Carole Evans 16:50

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 16:50

degree that was easier

Carole Evans 16:51

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 16:52

we could take the decision making out of it. We had to honor them in other ways. But as far as a lot of those decisions,

Carole Evans 16:59

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 17:00

My sister and I were able to come together and make those decisions on their behalf,

Carole Evans 17:03

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 17:04

When the person has, like you said, their body's failing and their brain is there

Carole Evans 17:08

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 17:08

Those really distinct ideas, that's part of what we have to do is honor

Carole Evans 17:13

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 17:14

that's really difficult to do.

Carole Evans 17:15

Yeah.

Caregiving Is More Than Tasks

Rayna Neises 17:17

So what would be one thing that surprised you most about caregiving?

Carole Evans 17:20

One thing that surprised me most, I think how fast it all happened, I think it just happened immediately. There was the immediate need of caregiving was, they needed someone to communicate with family, we started a Facebook page to give updates because she was getting inundated with text messages and phone calls and everyone wanting updates, and she said, can you just take this from me? I said, sure. And so I took that part. We put updates and she wanted to read all the updates that were on there so she could approve them. She wanted to make sure that I didn't put anything too negative or put any bad news, even though it was. It was a lot of bad news and so we had to put bad news framed in a positive light, which was hard because I wanna just be honest and say, we had a really tough doctor's appointment today. Here's what happened. And she was not comfortable with that. And so we really had to reframe some things. And so that caregiving journey, even though physically she didn't need me, that journey to communicate for her and advocate for her started immediately, and then it changed every time. I would go down, but they used to live right on our property.

Rayna Neises 18:29

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 18:29

so it was just a walk down the road, which was such a blessing, that I could go down there and be with them as much as I needed and then kind of come back and sleep at our house. But every time I would go down there, the caregiving journey, and that hat changed just a little bit. Some days it was communicators, some days it was, can you call the doctor for me? Can you pick up my medicine? And then it was being down there all the time, and then it was sleeping down there and then it was, it just changed a little bit and a little bit and a little bit every day. And that, I think that really surprised me because I always saw caregiving as, you help change diapers for somebody, you help give 'em the bath, you help get their food ready. And it was so much more than that. It was that and so much more. And I really, I just had no idea.

Rayna Neises 19:17

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 19:18

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 19:20

It is surprising. How quickly it happens at the same time, how slowly it

Carole Evans 19:27

Yeah. Yeah.

Rayna Neises 19:28

A very strange process of, as a caregiver, you're always advocating, you're always trying to do the best that you can for that person

Carole Evans 19:37

Yep.

Rayna Neises 19:37

My goal was always happy and healthy as long as possible, but at the same time, that as long as possible was there. But when it actually got to the end, it was like, oh, wait a minute. We can't be there already. You know? It just felt So, fast.

Carole Evans 19:50

yeah. So fast.

Rayna Neises 19:51

same time

Carole Evans 19:52

Mm-hmm.

Rayna Neises 19:53

it was a long journey.

Carole Evans 19:54

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 19:55

very confusing.

Carole Evans 19:56

Mm-hmm. It was,

Lamentations As Spiritual Fuel

Rayna Neises 19:59

So share with us one time when God really just showed himself to you in the middle of your caregiving.

Carole Evans 20:04

Before we found out about a diagnosis for mom. I was reading, in the Bible one Saturday morning, and for some reason I was just drawn to the Book of Lamentation and I'd never really read it before. And I thought, well, that's interesting. I'll just, I'd heard of it, knew what it was, but never really studied it. And so I started studying the book of Lamentation and then started studying Jeremiah and started really into this text. And I thought, Lord, why do you have me studying a book of lament? Everything's fine. I'm good. My family's good. I'm good.

Rayna Neises 20:37

Hmm.

Carole Evans 20:38

And I just, it was so good and it really, like the book just really spoke to me about Jeremiah because most teachers believe that Jeremiah wrote lamentation as well so I started studying and he was left in the city, and you go through chapter one and chapter two and chapter three, and in chapter three he says, but then I remembered and he remembered the goodness of God. Even though, and you can look at the stages of grief that we know. And our culture, and you can see those outlined in the book limitation. And it's a beautiful and sad communication as he's talking to God and he's pouring his heart out to God. It talks about his, literally his guts being poured out and your stomach turning. And if anyone has walked through that grief journey, you know what that's like for your stomach to kind of be torn out from you. And reading that book, I just thought, Lord, why do you have me in this book? And then mom got diagnosed with cancer and I thought, that's why you have me in this book.

Rayna Neises 21:37

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 21:37

And I had studied it so much. And then in those seasons when spiritually, I felt so dry and I felt so drained of my time of either I've slept down here or I was down here until dinner. And then as soon as I get the boys out the door for school, I'm back down there again. And the schedule was so crazy and spiritually. for those 5 months I felt so dry. I felt like I didn't have any time to really pour into myself spiritually. And God used that book of Lamentation to speak to me because if you read the book of Jeremiah, you see Jeremiah as a i, an evangelist on the street corners, and he shouting those message to people. But then in the next book, he's the one that feels sad. And the next book, he's the one crying out to God. And he's no longer this bold teacher on the street corner. He is the one that needs help. And God met him there and God was not ashamed of his grief. He was not worried if his season of lament did not scare God at all and did not make God love Jeremiah any less. And when you see that story of lament and Jeremiah's life to me, I kept thinking about that over and over again. As I was with mom in these seasons of dry, I thought, God, you can be with me when I feel bold and you can be with me when I just wanna cry in the bathroom floor and, and I don't know what else to do. You're still here. You are still here in my stages of grief. You are here when my stomach is torn up. You are here when I'm mad and I want to tell her that she's doing things the wrong way. And you're here when I'm frustrated and you're here when I don't wanna give another family group text. I don't wanna tell anybody anymore bad news. I wanna be done with this part. I, I just wanna start healing and I can't heal because we're still in the middle of it and I can't even get there. And you're just, all the things, it's like a big bowl of spaghetti up there, you know? And you're just so frustrated. And that that book of Lamentation kept coming back to mind of God. Use that to feed my soul when I couldn't feed myself was a need. I didn't know how

Rayna Neises 23:43

So amazing. He's so faithful. It's so amazing to me when I think about what he knows

Carole Evans 23:49

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 23:49

Don't know and how he does prepare us. And that obedience that you had to dig in before any of it meant anything to you was so, profitable later.

Carole Evans 24:02

it really was.

Rayna Neises 24:03

Just, it, it multiplied his word, multiplied in your heart in the times that you really needed it. And that's just beautiful. He's so faithful. And I love that he reminded you throughout that, that even in the dry, even in the anger, even in the confusion, even in those times that he you before you were ever even there,

Carole Evans 24:24

right.

Rayna Neises 24:25

still there

Carole Evans 24:25

Yep.

Rayna Neises 24:26

And I think that's one of the most important things for us to remember because all of those emotions are a part of caregiving. And whether it be a short time or 14 years,

Carole Evans 24:37

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 24:37

Is a part of it. And he. None of it scares him

Carole Evans 24:41

Right.

Rayna Neises 24:42

and none of it surprises

Carole Evans 24:43

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 24:44

and he's right there with you. So just always

Carole Evans 24:47

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 24:48

And looking and finding those things that will speak to you because I think you brought up another point that basically my quiet time, my nurturing, my time with the Lord didn't look the same

Carole Evans 25:00

No. Yeah.

Rayna Neises 25:02

And sometimes I think we beat ourselves up over it looking different, but it's just different. As long as you're still seeking and as long as you're still trusting,

Carole Evans 25:13

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 25:13

just different,

Carole Evans 25:15

yeah, absolutely. There was some times early on, when we were really kind of still in shock, like, is this real? You know, and there was a lot of long walks when I didn't have the words. I didn't even know how to pray.

Rayna Neises 25:28

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 25:29

I never experienced, I know a lot of people experienced being mad at God. I did not experience being mad at God, but I didn't know how to pray. Like I felt like, God, this is our diagnosis. He gave me peace early on that even though he could heal her, he wasn't gonna, and I knew that her diet wouldn't heal her. I knew we would not see a miracle of total healing here. But then I didn't know what to say when I prayed. Like, if she's not gonna be healed, if this is not gonna get any better, it's only gonna get worse. So what do I say? Do I say gimme patience? Do I say gimme long suffering? Do I say this is really hard and I don't like this. Like, what do I say? And um, some days I would just, we, we live out in the country and I would just walk up and down the road and I would just cry. Slow tears because I didn't know what else to do. I, I just didn't that I'm out here, I'm in nature. I'm seeking you. I wanna be in your presence, but I don't know what to say. Some days it was worship music of I wanna sit here with you in this moment. I've three and half minutes and I, I need this song to help get my heart in the right place for a second. And you're right that there was that spiritual nourishment of the good days of months before that he used to nourish me. When I didn't have the time. I didn't have the mental capacity. He used that to really help during a lot of really dry days. Yeah.

Rayna Neises 27:06

I hope that that's so encouraging to those of you that are listening, because that's part of this journey. That's part of what this

Carole Evans 27:13

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 27:14

is being aware

Carole Evans 27:15

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 27:16

That he's still there and even when it doesn't feel the same or when you don't feel the same, that he's still there and he's still faithful. Even when that answer to your prayer is no. I can remember as clear as day praying for a couple of years that my mom would be healed

Carole Evans 27:34

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 27:34

and the day that the Lord just said, That's not my plan Rayna. And like you said, now what?

Carole Evans 27:42

How do I, what do I do?

Rayna Neises 27:43

Yeah. And we had 10 more years, you know? And so for me, what was laid on my heart was, be here in the moment. Be here with her. not what we're gonna talk

Carole Evans 27:55

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 27:55

You don't need to focus on that piece of it.

Carole Evans 27:58

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 27:58

Focus right here in this moment. Let's wrap up with our question of what's one thing that you do to live content love well, and care without regrets?

Carole Evans 28:07

The first thing I did was I went to see, a grief counselor right after my mom passed away. And if anyone is wondering if that's worth it or not, I would always highly recommend that. As soon as my mom passed away, I felt really guilty.

Rayna Neises 28:23

Hmm.

Carole Evans 28:23

Because, my life immediately got easier. I wasn't looking at my phone in the middle of the night. I wasn't walking back and forth four and five times a day, or I wasn't working down there anymore. My home office didn't need to be down there anymore. So my life immediately got easier and then I felt really guilty. I thought I'm here. I am being thankful that I'm sleeping better, and my mom just died. How terrible am I, I'm a terrible person. And so I went to a grief counselor and I honestly, the session was mostly me crying and her out every couple of words and piecing together how I felt about it. But that was such a good biblical perspective of grief for her to say, here's what the role that you played in her story, and here's where she is now. It is okay that your life is easier right now. That's normal. And she said what you're feeling is normal, that you were a caregiver and that was a large part of your life for the last five months, and now it's not. And it's okay. And I knew that in theory. But if anyone is listening and thinking about regrets and thinking about those moments, I would really encourage you to talk to somebody. Because that helped me to just reframe the things I was feeling and to understand that it's normal. There was that, and then there was, something else that someone told me, that really, really helped me because for the first couple of weeks after mom passed away, I kept thinking about how she looked right when she died,

Rayna Neises 29:56

Hmm.

Carole Evans 29:57

And it was not good. It was rough. Her bone structure changed. Her body, her face had started to turn purple from just the lack of blood getting to her face and her nose had started to turn purple. Her ears were turning purple. Her toes were turning purple. She was someone who would barely go to the mailbox without makeup on. She always needed to be put together everywhere she went. And so for her looks to change so much and her facial structure, she had no muscle left. She was skin and bones when she died. She needed help going to the bathroom. She needed help sitting up. And so I just kept that image in my mind and it was so hard not to think about her laying on a bed. And I had 40 years of wonderful memories and of her thriving. And someone said, and they were talking about when their mom had passed away and they said, if we think about what do we really believe about heaven, then we believe that right now they're totally, completely healed.

Rayna Neises 30:55

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 30:57

And Mom really suffered at different points in her life from some anxiety and a little bit of depression. And so when I think about her being totally healed, I think about her being healed from cancer. She's not anxious about anything. She's not worried about anything. She has completely, totally healed. Her face looks beautiful. She is completely and totally healed. And that helped me not to think about her in that state right before she died, because that's a hard image to get outta your head.

Rayna Neises 31:28

It is.

Carole Evans 31:29

And I really had no, I kept messaging a friend who was a nurse, I said, is this normal? Is this okay? And she would say, yeah, girl, this is, this is part of, of someone dying.

Rayna Neises 31:39

Yeah.

Carole Evans 31:40

never seen that before

Rayna Neises 31:41

yeah.

Carole Evans 31:42

Very traumatic. It was rough.

Rayna Neises 31:43

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 31:44

and so that was something that helped me, was thinking about her completely, healed.

Rayna Neises 31:49

Yeah. My mom passed away on a Saturday night after six weeks of, a psychotic break.

Carole Evans 31:57

Hmm.

Rayna Neises 31:57

that was just a week that she went through,

Carole Evans 31:59

Wow.

Rayna Neises 32:00

for six weeks, just went through this

Carole Evans 32:02

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 32:02

chattering

Carole Evans 32:03

Hmm.

Rayna Neises 32:04

And screaming, and then sitting quiet and chattering again. And, they quieted it, but they weren't able to stop it. So as the medication wore off, it just came back. So there were, it was a very difficult,

Carole Evans 32:16

Wow.

Rayna Neises 32:17

of time at the end of her life. And I was, when she passed away on a Saturday night, Sunday morning, we sang, I Can Only Imagine.

Carole Evans 32:28

Wow.

Rayna Neises 32:28

And the Lord just immediately gave me a vision of her with him

Carole Evans 32:32

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 32:33

Singing it to him and not having to imagine anymore. And so I think it does heal us in a different way where we can look at them, where they are now and not stuck with what we saw last, and that's a gift and definitely something that we have to receive and to be willing to look at and think about it

Carole Evans 32:55

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 32:56

because like you said, it's a reframe and there is death is not pretty and it is not easy, but it's also not the end.

Carole Evans 33:06

That's,

Rayna Neises 33:07

you said, the true theology of our beliefs are tested at

Carole Evans 33:10

That's right.

Rayna Neises 33:10

And if we don't look past their death to eternity with them again, him in all of us being healed, even healthier than we've ever been

Carole Evans 33:21

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 33:21

It's exciting and, it's comforting. It's a salve that can be on those wounds, but it definitely takes that perspective and it's hard to do that right in the raw.

Hospice Education And Closing Hope

Carole Evans 33:33

Yeah. I don't know why, but when you see death in movies, it's a little bit romanticized

Rayna Neises 33:40

totally. Yes.

Carole Evans 33:41

and they make it like where someone's actively talking to you and maybe they're talking slowly, but they're talking to you like in coherent thoughts and sentences,

Rayna Neises 33:50

yeah,

Carole Evans 33:51

then they just close their eyes and they gently fall asleep.

Rayna Neises 33:53

Yeah.

Carole Evans 33:54

and it was like. Who dies like that because this is terrible.

Rayna Neises 33:58

Yeah.

Carole Evans 33:58

There's the death rattle that we heard and all of that stuff, all of the throwing up blood, all of those awful, terrible symptoms that are normal we don't talk about. And, uh,

Rayna Neises 34:10

talk about,

Carole Evans 34:11

no, no. And I was so thankful for the hospice nurses because they told us, and the hospice material told us mom would emotionally detach herself. From a conversation. From a relationship. And everywhere in the hospice information they would say, this is normal. They're gonna pull back. They're gonna shut down and not talk. Not because they don't love you, but because they know that they're dying and they're trying to make it easier to leave. And that was like, ah, but she's awake and there's a couple more things I wanna say.

Rayna Neises 34:42

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 34:43

wasn't ready to hear those and she didn't wanna talk any about anything deep or emotional. She didn't wanna go there. And that was good to know that it was normal,

Rayna Neises 34:51

Mm-hmm.

Carole Evans 34:52

Also hard from a picture of death we have in our mind and the reality of what death actually is. That was something I had to reconcile in my mind, how I thought losing her would be, and then how losing her actually was.

Rayna Neises 35:06

Yeah.

Carole Evans 35:07

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 35:08

I think movies make me mad.

Carole Evans 35:10

Yes, I, yeah.

Rayna Neises 35:12

I love Downton Abby my sister and I went and saw the final

Carole Evans 35:14

Yes.

Rayna Neises 35:15

the matriarch passed away. And when she died, I was just mad.

Carole Evans 35:18

Yeah,

Rayna Neises 35:19

just,

Carole Evans 35:19

I

Rayna Neises 35:20

was like, that is not what it's like.

Carole Evans 35:21

I know. I love Downton Abbey, but the same, totally agree,

Rayna Neises 35:25

It just, it, it doesn't prepare us.

Carole Evans 35:27

no.

Rayna Neises 35:27

not sure that anything really can prepare you.

Carole Evans 35:29

Mm-hmm.

Rayna Neises 35:30

But I do appreciate, that's one of the reasons why I am a huge advocate for hospice, because of the education.

Carole Evans 35:37

Yes.

Rayna Neises 35:38

For the family, it really can make a difference. You have to pick it up and read it,

Carole Evans 35:43

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 35:43

have to have the conversations. And sometimes that's hard too,

Carole Evans 35:46

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 35:47

willing to have those conversations. But it really can help you understand because there's not gonna be anything that's going to make it easier. But knowledge does balance the emotion, so. Carole, thank you so much for being here today. We've had some great conversations. I know listeners have been really impacted by that. I just so appreciate you

Carole Evans 36:10

Yeah.

Rayna Neises 36:10

being honest and sharing your just a little piece of your caregiving story with us.

Carole Evans 36:15

Well, thank you for having me. It's been just a pleasure talking to you about this and a couple months ago probably couldn't have talked about it without, getting really up and crying through it. So, I appreciate you sending the questions earlier so I could get my head screwed on straight and kind of talk through all this. It was really good. Yeah.

Rayna Neises 36:31

Well, I appreciate it and I know listeners, you've enjoyed our conversation today, and we thank you for joining us for Stories of Hope with Carole on A Season of Caring Podcast where there's hope to live content, love, well, and care without regrets. If you have medical, financial, or legal questions, be sure to consult your local professionals and take heart in your season of caring.