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Welcome to the Freak Show podcast, hosted by Sam Thurmond and Jacqueline Steele Thurmond. Sam is an Air Force Academy graduate and veteran who, after his service and two deployments, escaped the nine-to-five grind by building a real estate investing business that has, to date, accounted for over $50 million in real estate transactions. Jacqueline is an award-winning musician, former owner of boutique branding agency Steele International, and We are

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so excited to welcome you to the Freak Show podcast, where we center our content around the frequency of belief.

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Why? Because when we overcome fear and self-doubt, basically by getting out of our own way, we can make the impossible possible.

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And in this podcast, we are going to share our favorite mindset tools and life lessons that have completely transformed our lives and businesses. So without further ado,

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let's get freaky.

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Hello and welcome to episode 13 of the Freak Show podcast. I'm Jacqueline Steele Thurmond, joined by my wonderful husband.

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I'm Sam Thurmond.

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And today we are going to talk about surrender, which is a subject that both of us have really, really struggled with. But as we adopt the practices that we are going to share with you, it has... really changed how we approach our life and the way we approach our business. And so we wanted to share that with you guys and hope that it would encourage you.

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Yeah, I think this is perfect timing too because we literally, without even thinking about it and remembering what the episode was this morning, we talked about it a little bit on the drive over here.

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Yeah. Yeah. Well, surrender is part of our daily regimen lately because of the circumstances that we are in. And so we keep surrendering over and over and over. And there's such a peace that occurs when we put that surrender into play.

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Yeah. Yeah. It's always so funny how we can complicate things. And myself, specifically, I can... take something that is as simple as surrendering, letting go. And I want to be the best at surrendering.

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I love that about you, though. I think it's great that we both want to be the best at what we're doing. Yeah, sure. But surrendering in its essence is a simple practice. And I'd say it's an active practice. word, right? It's like putting something on the altar and letting it go. And it requires you to release expectations and outcomes. And I think that is the stickler for both of us is releasing expectations and releasing outcomes. But in the process, as control is relinquished, we have experienced things that I would say are so beyond what we would have imagined Otherwise, and I can give an example of that, but are there any examples that come to mind for you? I love real-world examples to show people just how possible this kind of stuff is.

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As far as surrendering and then the result being greater than what we would have expected ourselves? Yeah. is an example of that in a lot of ways. And there have been ebbs and flows. Obviously, surrender doesn't mean, okay, God, I give it up, and then we just kick back and

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wait

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by any means. So you're definitely still active in that. We can go into that process a little more. But I think in a lot of ways, just in our life in general, Those periods when we're able to release control and just do the actions that are in front of us that present themselves as this is what needs to be done and not worry about what's going to come or where we're going to be in

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a certain amount of time. Can I give some specific examples? Because I do like specifics. I agree with you in general. Yeah. Surrender has served us well, but I have three very specific examples.

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Well, you're locked and loaded, so go

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ahead. Locked and loaded because, well, I'm a woman, but I think examples really drive a point home. The first one that I'll mention is our son, Roman, and getting pregnant with Roman. I completely surrendered that project. But I remember we had said we would love... for me to be pregnant by December of 2021. And I wasn't tracking anything. I wasn't actively trying to get pregnant. I just said, you know, God, I'd love to be pregnant by December. And I was pregnant in May.

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That

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was a total act of complete surrender and prayer. And now we have, I could cry just thinking about it, but the most... incredible son that we could ask for. He injects joy into every ounce of our lives. Yeah. Second example is when I got pregnant with Roman and we had just moved into our little rental, it was like 1,400 square feet. So compared to our RV, a giant upgrade.

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Massive.

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Yeah, it was massive. But for three people and three dogs... we started to feel a little bit cramped. And I felt God say to me, a Spanish-style house is going to present itself, and the act of getting it is going to be so easy, and it's just going to happen. And maybe eight months to a year later is when we found our house and got it owner-financed. I think we closed within three to four weeks. And then renovation wasn't easy, but that whole process was seamless. And we got a Spanish style house, which is exactly what I had been wanting for years and years and years and years. And now we're living in our dream home.

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Yeah.

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We didn't, I mean, we were looking on Zillow regularly, but we weren't saying, hey, we need to buy a house by this time. There was no deadline. There wasn't a lot of pressure. Even though our house was small, we were very happy in it. We are so adaptable. Then my third example is one that we have talked about on this podcast, but it was a real estate investing opportunity that we had last August. So almost a year ago now where you were gone and You were on a rafting trip. There was zero cell phone service. And you were like, okay, you're in charge of the business. I trust you to make good decisions. And I was presented with the biggest deal that had ever come through our ether, our pipeline. And you were gone. And I was like, can I spend a million dollars without my husband approving of this? And I surrendered immediately. I asked the guy point blank who had the deal. I was like, hey, here's my situation. My husband's out of town. He's my business partner. If the shoe were on the other foot and if you were in my position, would you take this deal? And I wanted to put him up against the wall and be like, I need you to be completely honest with me. And he said, point blank, this is a slam dunk. I was like, okay, I'm going to put the earnest money down and just hope everything works out. I'm going to surrender it. And a week later, we got an all-cash offer before we even touched the house. Maybe it was two weeks later. And we made almost six figures for signing a few papers.

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Yeah.

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And that was during a time where we seriously needed the money, too.

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Yeah. And it's kind of funny. I was forced to surrender on the other end because we were on the river in... eastern Oregon and northwest Idaho and like Jackie said zero cell service but we did have Like a little GPS that could receive text messages. But it was

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very spotty. This is in 2023. This is not in 2005.

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Very spotty, not a great form of communication. And we were trying to respond, but couldn't respond. And me and my buddies were just laughing because literally, I think the text message that you sent was like, ask Sam if I can... spend a million dollars, pay a million dollars for this property. And I have no idea anything about it or whatever. And I'm trying to respond, not that I could really give any feedback, but it kept saying message unsent, message unsent, message unsent.

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Yeah, but basically once I finally got a response from you, it was something like, Well, I don't know. I'd have to see it first. And I was like, I already did the deal.

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And I'm glad you did because it was a killer deal, like you said. But we bought it. We were there walking it to put our scope of work together to renovate it and got a call from somebody down the street that wanted to buy it from us. Easiest

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transaction ever. So let's talk about what surrender means to you. What does surrender mean to you? And I want to get really micro with this because we can all say like, yes, surrender. We can talk about Michael Singer and the beautiful book, The Surrender Experiment, which I highly, highly recommend. I've done podcasts and self-worth with Jacqueline Steele about surrender. And I like to get specific. What does surrendering mean to you? And what does that look like for you? When you say you're going to surrender something, What are the steps that you take to surrender?

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Yeah, so I think the best way to lay it out is from The Disappearance of the Universe.

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By Gary Renard.

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They talk about how you basically, through the Holy Spirit and through Jesus, go before God and set... set whatever is on your heart at God's feet as a practice, as a sacrifice. And to me, that's been the clearest way in my mind to go through that. So I will literally sit down, eyes closed. It's a prayer meditative state. And I ask Jesus to guide me, the Holy Spirit to guide me. And I literally, in my mind, am sitting at the foot of God. And I push forward my goals, my fears, aspirations, all of those. And I literally, with my hands, will push them before God. And it talks about in the book how that is your sacrifice

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to

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God, that you are... You are not going to, in this human form, wrestle with these things. You are going to put them before God as a sacrifice because you fully trust and you fully surrender these things to God. And then from that point on, It's less effort. It's less you trying to do something, and you're just sitting in silence and basically waiting for the voice of God. And so often that comes through in your thoughts. I think one thing that I've struggled with, and we talked about this the other day, is what does it sound like? to hear from God.

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Like,

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am I making something up in my mind

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that

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I think God is telling me, or would it be more clear? clearer than that?

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Or how does that work? I can tell you what I think about that, which I should probably apologize to you for what I said to you yesterday. I was coming at you pretty hard about your faith and if your faith was strong enough. And I think I was out of line. So I apologize.

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Well, I don't think you're out of line because I think that that's how

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we- I felt like I challenged you a little too hard though. I

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don't think so. Again, I have to be I have to be kicked in the butt. I have to be challenged really hard a lot of times in order to- It's

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exhausting. In

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order to recognize it. I'm not like, you can't coach me in a soft way.

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No, because you're so easygoing in life. In order for you to really get something, it's almost like I have to completely become a different character and proverbially slap you upside the head, which is not something that I do naturally.

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Yeah. Yeah, but I don't respond to nudges. Actually,

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let me take that back. It is something that I do naturally that growing up, I had a little bit of an anger problem around. And so as I've become an adult, I've really tried to hone that and become better. And so my initial reaction now is not to get angry and slap you upside the head proverbially. It's to... like have a conversation and have it be very like therapized. Like let's talk about it from my feelings perspective and your feelings perspective. But I feel like some of that, sometimes with our dynamic, it just goes straight through you versus like that.

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That's how you like to receive feedback.

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That's how I like to receive feedback. And I

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shouldn't even say I like to receive feedback in a hard way. It's not that I don't have a reaction to it or it's not going to make me mad or set me off in the moment, but it gets my attention.

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Yeah.

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It's

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like a screaming football coach. You need the screaming football coach.

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Yeah, because so often, like you're saying, the very subtle, nice approach... where you reaffirm someone's feelings and then you give them that feedback, all I hear is, I'm affirmed. I'm good. At least I'm getting most of it right.

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No wonder sometimes it takes so long for something to get through. I just have to be the football coach more often. But circling back to what the point that I wanted to make was, You asked, how do you think you know if it's the voice of God? How

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do you decipher, yeah.

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And for me, when I feel that God is speaking to me, the voice that comes through talks in a way that I do not talk. So obviously it's English because I understand English, but it's said in a way that I would not naturally say it myself. And it's generally a very to-the-point... factual sentence. For me, I think God can speak to anyone in any way that God wants to, but that is the way that I receive it. And it's a very clear message and very directive.

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Yeah. And to add on to that, when I first was reading The Disappearance of the Universe and applying the practice, what I found was it wasn't necessarily even words. It was more like, it was like a thought combined with a feeling that didn't even need words in a lot of ways. And then you could extrapolate from that. Do you

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know what I mean? Well, I don't know that I have experienced that before. So that's really cool. But again, I think God knows you.

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Right.

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And God is going to speak to you in a way that you will be able to distinctly understand.

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But I think being aware of that Part of it, that that's how I feel like God can communicate because God doesn't need words. God doesn't need words. He can plant thoughts in your mind or whatever it is. And I think opening our minds to that enables us to receive word from God more than, okay, I want it in this language. I need it presented to me this way, so forth and so on. So I know that's a side note from... Surrendering, but I think that is in the process of surrendering, receiving that guidance.

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Yeah, receiving that guidance. I think another important point is that because God does speak to us all in different ways, because we are all different in the way we receive things. I like a softer approach, but I feel like God speaks to me through animals. Now, before the super conservative Christians are like, oh, Jacqueline's crazy. I can't listen to this podcast anymore. I think God speaks through all of his creatures. And sometimes when I'm asking something of God or I have a specific question, I'll either see a vision of a specific animal. Maybe it's like a black panther, or maybe it's a fox, or I'll literally see something. I remember asking several years ago when we were in Sedona a specific question about the podcast that I was doing at the time, and a hummingbird came right into my path. And then I looked up the meaning of a hummingbird, and it's this beautiful message. And so I think God speaks to us in so many different ways. And if we remain open and allow God to speak how God is going to speak to us, we get the most specific results. Does that make sense?

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Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so ultimately that's surrendering, right? It's putting it in my definition, putting it before God, stepping back and then letting God guide you and everything else moving forward, as opposed to just having, trying to have a stranglehold on everything, which is So hard not to do, especially in high pressure situations.

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Yeah. So in early April, around the time of the eclipse, I had several nights where I was just not sleeping. And so I was going into our library, which is also our dining room, and just having conversations with God. And I felt God specifically tell me, you must actively surrender yourself. And what he meant by actively surrender was do exactly what you said, pray about it. And for me, I generally surrender at night before bed. I get on my knees next to my bed and I pray. And then God told me, after you actively surrender, I will show you the next step. And it's not that God is going to show you the entire roadmap. It's the next step. that will become clear one step at a time. And I feel like as a visual, when I am able to take one step, think about it as like stepping stones. You step on the first stepping stone and then the picture becomes a little bit more clear. It was blurry, but maybe you see the next two feet in front of you. And then you get to the next stepping stone of the next right step that God gives you. And then maybe you can see five or six feet in front of you. And then as you go on, the picture becomes wider and clearer and clearer and clearer. Does that make sense? And what I mean by active surrender is, yes, we pray about it. We give it up. We say, this is my heart's intention, but I'm going to give it to you, God. But then we don't sit back and do nothing. We still get up the next day, have our coffee, have our quiet time and attack the day like we are actively working toward that goal. And when I think of surrender, it's not inaction. It's giving up the result of what is going to happen and the expectations of what is going to happen. But it's still enjoying the process of creation as we're walking down that path.

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Yeah, and that's how you grow in faith. I forget who said it, but I've seen it a few times where they say, God isn't going to show you the end state. He's going to show you exactly what to do next. But between the next step and the end state, that's where faith lies and that's where your faith grows is in that space.

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Yeah. And I think that brings us perfectly to our next point, which is combine surrender with an expectation of good.

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Yeah.

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We say give up expectations, meaning don't have an attachment to the end result, but expect the end result to be a really good thing and expect it to be something that is for us. Yeah.

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Yeah. And that's another thing that you hear a lot is most successful people are people who think that things are working ultimately in their favor versus thinking the world is working against them.

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Mm-hmm. I completely agree. And I timidly bring up my next point, but I feel like it's a perfect example. This has absolutely nothing to do with politics and everything to do with business savvy, but I just read two books by Donald Trump that were written in the 80s. No, one was written in the 80s, one was written in the early 2000s, so far before he became president. I'm not trying to get political on here. I'm not trying to sway anyone in any one direction, and I'm not even swayed in Donald Trump's political direction. However, his business savvy is something to be admired. You don't become a billionaire... through sheer luck. And a common theme in both of these books was, I'm going to go after what I want, but I'm going to expect that whatever happens is going to happen for me. And it will either result in me acquiring that property that I want or acquiring something even better. And I feel like that's just a perfect example of somebody who has done that over and over and become... incredibly successful financially. Yeah.

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Yeah. RFK Jr. 2024, but.

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Oh yeah, for sure. We're big RFK fans. You can't deny

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that he, that Trump knows business regardless of what people say. Well,

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and for me, I want to study people who are excelling in their field and we are real estate investors by trade. And so I want to study people who have been extremely successful in real estate.

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Yep.

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Okay, so let's talk about self-worth and believing you are deserving of good things happening. Because I think this is a hang-up for a lot of people. They'll surrender it, they will act on their dreams, but there is a giant roadblock of feeling worthy of something good happening in the end. I think we've talked about that with our house. We are living in our dream home right now. It is... not a mansion by any means. It's not a tiny little house for some people. It's probably like a drop in the bucket, but we love it. And I remember when we moved in, we had a discussion like, do we feel worthy of this house? Cause we experienced some hardship right at the beginning of the year. And we were wondering like, are we subconsciously creating this because we don't feel worthy of living here?

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And

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I think there was a part of both of us that didn't. It is the nicest house either of us have ever lived in.

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Yeah. I think I still have those feelings from time to time that I try to be aware of and catch myself. But you get what you want or better than what you want or originally expected. And then once you get it, you're kind of like, oh man, I'm not really... I've never had something like this before, so this must be a fluke.

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It's like Will Ferrell in Talladega Nights when they hand him the microphone and he's like, what do I do with my hands? It's kind of like, what do we do with ourselves? Yeah,

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in some ways it feels like imposter syndrome in a way. I know that that's usually referred to differently, but feeling like just a feeling a feeling of being unworthy of something like that. When even though you took the risks, you did the work.

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Oh my gosh, we did so much work.

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And you envisioned it and prayed for it, all those things. And then you get it and you're kind of like,

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can I handle this?

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Was this a mistake? Yeah.

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And I think something that helps me in that respect is going back to the core of who I am. I am human. I was created by an infinite God. that allowed me to be here on this planet. I am as worthy as anyone else. We are all incredibly worthy innately by birthright. And when I go back to the core of who I am and what my intentions are and what I want to do in this world, I'm also reminded that, I mean, hopefully this doesn't come off as arrogant, but I really love who I am. I really love who I am and my intention is to do good and to bless other people and to bless my family. And so I know innately that I am worthy of so many good things. I still struggle at times, but the core of who I am, just being a human is worthy. The core of who you are, you are worthy.

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We

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are all worthy.

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Yeah, that guilt, that you know, we're talking a lot about faith and, um, as it relates to religion, guilt is such a huge part of, um, religion and being shame, being centers and so forth and so on. But, you know, as Christians, we believe that that was all that debt was paid. So in my mind to continue operating as though you are, um, Unworthy.

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Continually unworthy. And

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allowing that to be a limitation is kind of a slap in the face to

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God. Yeah, absolutely. And this is called The Freak Show, and freak stands for frequency. And at the very bottom of the frequency chart are guilt and shame. Those are the lowest frequencies that we can live in. Yeah. The lowest. And if you feel yourself in that place, the fastest way to get out of it is with gratitude. So start naming some things you're grateful for and it will immediately shift your state.

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Yeah.

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Okay. What next?

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Well, we talked about, we kind of skipped around a little bit. We talked about the practice of surrendering. Do you I kind of told you my practice. Do you feel like you explained yours?

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So I'll take it.

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I feel like sometimes you ask me the questions that you already have the answer that you want to give to it and then I just kind of flounder until

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you decide. No, not at all. It's not that I already have the answer, it's that I want to make sure we're moving forward with the podcast. And I think because I have more experience with it, I should just lead it, but I never want to take over or speak over you. So that's why I hand it back to you. Does that make sense?

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Okay. But now I'm looking for something. But if you're trying to wrap it up,

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then wrap it. No, I'm not trying to wrap it up. I'm trying to go to the next point, which is, I don't know what happens next, but I bet it's going to be awesome. And so we talk about combining surrender with an expectation of good. And I love that quote from Do the Impossible by Jason Drees, where he says, I don't know what happens next, but I bet it's going to be awesome. And that's something that we repeat regularly in our our house, especially during times of great trial, like when we've risked a lot of money or we finished a giant project and it hasn't sold yet. One of the quotes that we turn back to is, I don't know what's going to happen next, but I bet it's going to be awesome. And then next thing I think we should talk about is what surrender looks like in business. Because we've talked about it a lot in our life. and how we actively surrender, but what do you think we do in our business to actively surrender? Is it any different than what we do in our personal

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lives? No, to me it's, and our personal lives and our business are so intertwined that oftentimes it feels like Business is our personal life. So to me, my answer would be no. I don't think it's any different. I think it's the same practice for me as far as just pushing it forward off my lap and listening for guidance and expecting the

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best. Expecting great things. I think I would add that the difference that I feel... when it comes to surrendering about personal issues, whether that be health or family or anything like that versus business, is I try to have even less attachment to any of the business stuff. Because I feel like God has said to me, if you give me this, just watch what I can do. Just watch. And so I want to be... I want to be active in my business. I want to be wise. I want to learn all the things that I can learn and read all the things that I can read. But I really want to give the end result to God because I know God is going to give us a result so much better than we could ever give ourselves.

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Yeah. I think one of the things that I struggle with, and I don't know if it's struggle, I think it's just figuring out what works best is surrendering but also creating. Yeah. playing the active role in creating the outcome, whether that's envisioning, what am I trying to say?

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Envisioning.

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Envisioning and seeing what you want and energetically creating those things versus surrender. And what is that balance of active versus just letting it go? Do you know what I mean?

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Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

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yeah. Yeah, and it is a little hard for me.

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I know exactly what you're saying. What I'm trying to

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say because it's like, well, I surrendered it this morning, but I also want to sit and envision and create how much of it is just surrendering it and how much of it is also...

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Feeling what it feels like to have that result.

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Yeah, using your own mind and your own energy to... to co-create with God.

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Do you know what I mean? Well, and I think from the outside looking in, that could sound counterproductive to what we've been talking about, about actively surrendering, but it's actually not. And here's why. Because when you actively surrender, it doesn't mean you just forget about what you're surrendering. You still, just like Joe Dispenza said, says you feel the energy. And when you shift your energy, you shift your life, you change your life. And so as you surrender this beautiful dream or goal or whatever the case may be, you still hold the frequency of that thing. You still act as though it's something that you've already accomplished or something that you've already received or the house that you already live in. You act as if it's already happened. And there is such a powerful energy around that because it shifts the frequency that you live on. It literally shifts the frequency that you live on. And I think money is such an easy example But pretend you had $25 million in your savings account right now. How would that feel? Mm-hmm. if you would at all? How would you approach the way you pay for lunch today differently? How would you approach getting your coffee at Starbucks differently? Go through those questions of how you would shift within your reality if that thing that you want, and it doesn't have to be money, it could be a relationship, but how would you act if you already have that and then start acting that way? Is that what you're trying to say?

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Well, no. I understand how to shift frequency and how to shift into that mindset. I think what I'm getting at is more doing that, but then ultimately releasing it. So you actively put yourself in that state.

SPEAKER_01

We're saying the same thing in two different ways, Sam.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, because you're actively releasing it. You're releasing the results of what actually happens, but you're still living as though it's happened. Does that make sense?

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Yeah.

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And so it's not that you're so attached to that exact number. or that exact relationship, but you're feeling the feelings of what it feels like to live in that relationship or to live with that amount of money, but you're still releasing the end result and the specifics of what it looks like.

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Right?

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Okay. Now, let's talk about, we have forgiveness on here. What does surrender look like in life? forgiveness of self and everyone else. What do you think is important about this last point that we want to make?

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That's a reference, again, to Disappearance of the Universe and what the common theme throughout that book is that we are here to forgive, forgive ourselves and forgive everyone else. That is the purpose. And I think in doing that by releasing these feelings toward others and ultimately releasing them towards ourself, that gives us the ultimate freedom. Yeah,

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it really does. And it's something that I really struggle with.

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Yeah. Well, it's not necessarily... I don't want to say it's not necessarily our nature, but it's just counterintuitive a lot of times.

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Well, yeah, I think it's so often that we live in our egos and our egos want to be right. And so when it comes to forgiveness, it makes it harder to forgive others when we feel like we are in the right, right? But the caveat to that is that the harder we are on other people in general, the harder we are on ourselves, right?

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And

SPEAKER_01

when we are hard on ourselves, good things don't resolve from that. I mean, we can be hard on ourselves in that like we want to lift heavier weights in the gym or we want to achieve more. But when we are beating ourselves up day in and day out, it doesn't create a healthy body. It doesn't create a healthy mind. It doesn't create a healthy home environment or a healthy business. Right. And so I think it is so true that what we give, we also receive. And so the more free we are with handing out forgiveness, the more free we feel with forgiving ourselves. Sure. And that is something that I am continually working on because it's... not something that is innately easy for me. I feel like my nature is to want to fix everything. And when people are hurting or people are rude, to fix the situation. it hasn't served me very well. It's made my life a lot more difficult. We've talked about energy and me preserving energy in the last couple of episodes and how hard the beginning quarter of this year was and how leaky my boundaries were. And it is so important for me to forgive and to let go and not to be a pushover in any way. And I don't feel like I'm a pushover at all about anything that really, really matters. But I have a tendency to want to please people as well. So I just have to be hyper aware of that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, forgiveness is not just allowing people to run over you or take advantage of you. Take advantage of you and you just forgive them. That's not what it's about. I think it's even more about if someone is doing something or has done something that is pricking you in a certain way, the thought is that that is ultimately something within you that's being

SPEAKER_03

projected

SPEAKER_02

that you need to forgive yourself for. So it's a really... It can be a really complex conversation that's hard to encapsulate in a couple minutes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but forgiveness plays a big part in surrender. Yeah. Because the more you actively let go and fill that place of pain or anger with love, the higher... frequency that you live on. You make space for much higher frequencies to come and replace that. So I think to wrap up, the question we would like to ask you is, what is burdening you that you can actively surrender to God today? And I want to challenge you to surrender something big, something really big that feels scary to surrender. So what is burdening you that you can actively surrender to God today? Thank you so much for listening and we will catch you in next Tuesday's episode. Thank you so much for listening to The Freak Show with Sam Thurmond and me, Jacqueline Steele Thurmond. We would love to connect with you via our website, beckonliving.com and on social media.

SPEAKER_02

You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at Beckon Living, and you can join our email list to receive uplifting messages, podcast and business updates, and discounts on high-frequency products just for our freaky community. Cheers to high-frequency living.