Yummy, soul quenching, heart-seeing, unconditional female friendship is hard to come by. We’ve all been burned. We’ve all experienced envy. We’ve all loved and lost and been left wondering what the fu$k just happened. But underneath it all, we women crave deep woman to woman friendship. We were built for it. It’s part of our DNA and who we are on an evolutionary level. How do we cultivate that kind of intimacy though? That’s what business owner, hair stylist, and my bestie, Lisa Kviklys, and I are discussing on today’s episode. You sent in your questions, and we answered. (You guys are the BEST).
Yummy, soul quenching, heart-seeing, unconditional female friendship is hard to come by. We’ve all been burned. We’ve all experienced envy. We’ve all loved and lost and been left wondering what the fu$k just happened. But underneath it all, we women crave deep woman to woman friendship. We were built for it. It’s part of our DNA and who we are on an evolutionary level. How do we cultivate that kind of intimacy though? That’s what business owner, hair stylist, and my bestie, Lisa Kviklys, and I are discussing on today’s episode. You sent in your questions, and we answered. (You guys are the BEST).
were the two and one and we're recording. Okay. So today, my friends, I have the distinct pleasure of having on the podcast for the very first time, my best friend, Lisa quicklace. She is an entrepreneur. She is a business owner. She's a hairstylist extraordinaire, she's booked out for like, weeks and months in advance, because she's just not amazing. But she would never tell you that. And you're so sweet. I'm so excited to have you on today to talk about cultivating friendship, and specifically, friendships amongst women. Because you have completely revolutionized the way that I think about female friendship based on my experience of being friends with you. And I know that you do that with so many of the people in your life, because I know your friends, and I know you, but it's the truth. It is absolute truth. Thank you for saying that. You're so welcome. I just love you. And you enhance my life in every way. Oh, thank you. And I feel exactly the same about you. Well, exactly the same about you. Good. Okay, so I gave I gave all the listeners a little intro into who you are. But let's talk about how we met. And some of those like beginning sparks of friendship. So we met at the salon, and you just so happened? Yeah, just so happened to end up on my schedule one day. And we totally hit it off. Like, when you say that first appointment, I was like, Yes, yes. Yes. I would like to be friends with you. Yes. And I had that same feeling. Yeah, are you gonna say it was really fun? Well, I'm gonna save it for something that I think is coming up later. Okay. So yeah, I definitely felt that spark of friendship. And I was like, I really, really want to be friends with her. And I want to be intentional about this. But I also, um, don't want to come off too strong either. Because I know I can do that. Sometimes I was like, I'm gonna chill out a little bit. It's like when you see somebody that you're really crushing on, and you're like, I don't want to blow it right off the bat. I need to like, save some mystery. But in my head, I was like, I was already like, writing love notes to you and doing Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay, so. But the whole point of this podcast today is to talk about cultivating female friendships sustaining female friendship. And I think we'll end with some takeaways that we hope listeners will walk away with and be encouraged by, but the whole ethos of this podcast, or the reason for this podcast came about because I set out a poll on Instagram, asking women, what kind of questions they had about cultivating female friendship. And again, I think, you know, you and I are not relationship experts. But we have done a lot of the work, why not? Yeah, but yes, that being said, we have done a lot of the work on ourselves. And I think we've poured in a lot of work into the relationships that matter in our lives. And so that's why I think our perspective does matter. Because it's based on experience. It's not based on any covalently textual thing. It's based purely in life experience. Do you want to add anything to that? No, I think that was perfect. Okay, cool. So I think we just launched in with some of these questions that these amazing women submitted. And some of them were really vulnerable. So just that preface, like couette, you know, if you submit questions to this podcast are you're submitting questions on Instagram. I appreciate it so much, and I appreciate people being so openly vulnerable. So question number one, you and I know anything. Right? You and I dig deep off? So it's a good place. It's a good place to get vulnerable? Yeah, it is it? Yeah. Oh, without a doubt. So question number one is from Adrian. And she said, getting past surface level with girls and into friend intimacy. So friend, intimacy is hard. What do you do? Mm hmm. And this is I love this question. And I think my answer is That we have to be willing to do the work around getting vulnerable with people. And we have we have to be, what's the right way to put it. If we want intimacy with somebody, we have to be willing to go to those places, not only with another person, but also with ourselves. You know, so much of relationships that we experience in life are a direct reflection of the energy we're putting out there, and also, how we're treating to and speaking to ourselves. So if we want intimate relationships, it requires us to be brave. Hmm, yeah. Well, and patient, you know, it doesn't necessarily happen overnight. Um, you know, spilling literally all of your deep dark secrets out. I mean, that could be a lot for someone, they might push back and be like, yeah, your project, I don't want to project I just want a friend. And as we get older, I think like what I get when I was younger, I worked in a lot of service industry jobs, and I became a hairstylist in my early 20s. So it was always around people who were roughly my age, and interested in a lot of the same things that I was, but it doesn't. I'm of those people, though. I mean, I had a lot of friends when I was younger, but of those people and maybe only talk to two or three, because they were the ones that were We were willing to get vulnerable. We were willing to be patient with each other long distance, because I mean, I live in a totally different state than I did, then. I've maintained those relationships, but only three of them. Yeah, you know, because they were the ones that that's the thing were more important, but they were the ones that went deeper. Yeah, they, I think, you know, when you talk about or when anybody talks about food, you have like soul food, you have whole food, we are looking for the soul food, of friendship, right? Where it's a place, you know, like with you, for instance, I will show up to your house, in my sweat pants with no makeup, and like socks with sandals on, I would never go anywhere. Like like that. It is I Oh, I'm having a rough day. And I like need to like, like, work some things out with you. I have no trouble showing up, literally as I am. And talking with you. And I think, you know, so often. Friendships are topical, because people don't know how to be deep with themselves. And so they're not willing to go deep with other people because they're not willing to go deep with themselves. And I think one of the common themes of this podcast will be whatever you want, and another person is also something that you have to be willing to give yourself or to be for yourself, because we can't go into relationships, not a friendship relationship, not a family relationship, not an intimate, romantic relationship, wanting somebody else to complete us. We have to if we want a healthy relationship, enter into these relationships as whole people. You know, right. Right. Yeah. Well, and also recognize, too, that for as close as you and I are, and for as willing as we are to hold space for the difficult times for the vulnerable, or vulnerability for one another. Like you're not my therapist. Yeah, you know, it's not my job to fix you. It's just my job to listen. Yeah, my job. It's my honor. It's like my privilege to be there for you. But it's I don't take responsibility for your healing or for your pain or your suffering or your joy or anything. I just get to, you know, live that with you witness, I think, yeah, and I think that's another really good piece of advice when it comes to creating intimacy within relationships. We don't need to show up perfect. on the same side, we can't expect that other person to show up perfectly. We have to extend a lot of grace. And I think witnessing the other person and holding space is one of the first steps to cultivating that intimacy that so many people crave. I also want to add that the most intimate relationships in my life and I only have a few people that I am like super burn myself with super super myself with, they were all slow burn relationships. And what I mean by that is, it wasn't a, Hey, my name is Jacqueline, here's my Pandora's box. Here's all of my secrets and my fears and my doubts and my stories. It has been a very intentional here is a bite sized piece of my heart. What are you going to do with it? Are you safe to continue to give a bite sized piece of my heart? And right, so often, and I've experienced this, I'm sure you've experienced this too, you meet somebody. And it's like they want to be best friends right off the bat. And that's always a little bit of a red flag for me. Because I think true trust is built over time. And true intimacy is built over time. It's not a rush to a finish line. It is a beautiful, slow build, like a gorgeous stew. You know what I mean? Like it takes a while to finish. I just like throw that there's all the food references. Yeah, you're speaking my language. Bring it back. Always. Oh, yeah, yes, a hearty Pun intended to. Yeah. And I think honestly, piggybacking off of the food thing, like, you also have to create moments in which intimacy can take place. If you're like, going to concerts with people and going out to bars and partying, great, like, go have fun. But if you want to have an intimate relationship with somebody, and that's something that you really value, invite them to come over for dinner, like make them dinner, and sit and talk. Right? Yeah, create space for those moments. Okay. Anything else you want to add on for intimacy or cultivating, cultivating intimacy? Um, I think and this, this whole kind of this kind of general theme, but like, if you're in a relative firm, in my experience, if I'm in a relatively new friendship, or any relationship with somebody, I'm recognizing that, okay, so anytime you meet somebody, and you hit it off, like for you and I, for example, we were like, We should get coffee. Or we should go to dinner. I think we went to dinner first. And then we had our first date was definitely a dinner date. Yes. entertainer. Yeah, ever. I even remember what you ordered this. So love you so much. Oh, that's amazing. But if somebody is trying to connect with you and says, We should go to dinner, believe them. Hmm. And do a lot of times, people are like, Oh, they were just being nice or Oh, and who knows what kind of missed opportunities you have? And like, what kind of lifelong friendship you can have if you just went to dinner? Or if you just went to coffee? Or if you just pick up the phone and call somebody instead of texting. You know, like, Yes, I feel like that is such a nugget of wisdom. Yeah, believe them. Like, if they want to hang out with you believe them. Yeah. And then if they don't, if they were just being nice, they'll bail and then the hell with them? And then you know, like, but but then, you know, yeah, I feel like that's such a good piece of advice. Okay. Question number two. And this is from Terry. She said, What do you think is the most important quality that a friend should possess? Hmm. Um, I, I think two are tied for first in my book, or what I look for in friends and, or what I think about like my group of friends, but they all kind of have the first one is empathy. which keeps them from walk, well circle back. The first one is empathy. The second one is non judgmental, like they have to be non judgmental. Mm hmm. Because you just never you never know what somebody is going through. And if they're sharing what they're going through, and then you're sitting there and judging them, like, you're not creating a safe place. There goes the trust. Yeah. They can't be their authentic selves with you. And then why would they want to continue to cultivate the same type of relationship? I feel like you go from the intimacy to like, oh, that happened, boom, you're back to surface, you know, and it takes, at least for me, like, who, I'm willing to trust people, but it's, and I'm willing to forgive people, but it's really it can be challenging for me to forget that. You know, when you're just like, oh, okay, well, there was that moment where I felt really judged. Um, and they didn't show up for the meat or they didn't show up for me and empathy circles into this too. The way in which I needed and expressed because I'm pretty, like, direct and expressive around like what my needs are. Yeah. So, you know, if people, and it's not to say that they're, they're not allowed to, like, make a mistake every now and again, you know what I mean? Yeah, we have to have great speech and moments where the right if I'm feeling judged than I been, there's something wrong with the trust. Yeah, you know, well, and therefore, I don't want to continue in the same manner. And you have, and this like, just delights my heart. But you have described our friendship before as being unconditional. And I think that's such a great way to describe our friendship. And something that I value in another person is that it is unconditional, you get to show up as you are, and be who you are without me trying to morph you into somebody else? or manipulate the situation so that I get the answer that I want? or any of those right. Um, yeah, I think for me, what I value in people is it, it's hard to whittle it down to one thing, because three things come to mind is trustworthiness. Because I have a lot of trauma in my past. And if I'm going to share my heart with you, you have to be somebody that is trustworthy. Another is integrity, like, Do you follow through with what you say you're going to do? When you tell me your dreams, are you taking action on those dreams, because I want to surround myself with people who are up leveling and challenging themselves, and creating growth in their lives and trying to be the best version of who they are. And so that's really important to me. And then I would say, a loving nature. When I was younger, I tended to just take whatever kinds of friendships were in front of me, you know, it was a neighbor, or whoever was in my class at school, or blah, blah, blah. And when you take whatever is given to you, like I did, I ended up in a lot of friendships that were not all that healthy for me to be a part of. And right. I think that loving nature, that kindness, that propensity to hold space for somebody else, is super important to me, because I've had so many difficult female friendships in general. Were, and I've shared with you some, some of this, but you know, even from second grade, my best friend, Carla, we left school on a Friday. And then on Monday morning, the teacher got up in front of the front of the room and was like, Carla and her family moved back to Chicago this weekend. And she's no longer going to be in class with us. And then she looked at me in front of the whole class and was like, chocolate, I'm really sorry. And so I have some, like, abandonment, you know, people disappearing from what I thought was a friendship. And so I need somebody to be a little tender with me too, especially in the beginning. And it's not because I'm not strong. It's not because I'm, I'm not directed, I just, again, if I'm going to have a friendship with somebody, I value intimacy, and I value vulnerability. And if somebody is not capable of giving that back, then I'm not interested in the friendship. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think that friendships can ebb and flow. You know, some people aren't able to pour in as much as they're not going to always be 5050. Because like, that's not even realistic. But consistency and showing up is, I think, important, too, you know, like, Huh. And there will be times where I may be going through like, a darker season, and you're in spring, and I am just in winter. Yeah, for a long time. And that's okay. Um, and vice versa. And just understanding and like, again, holding that space and being graceful with one another. Yeah. And allowing it to, Oh, totally allowing it to be what it is. But going back to that integrity piece, like, I look at you and the decisions that you make, and they're all rooted in integrity. You're constantly like thinking about how your actions affect other people. And I want to surround myself with people who are considerate and kind and intentional. Yeah. Because it reminds me to do the same But also like, that's the kind of reality I want to cultivate. Yeah, yeah. Um, and you show up that way to also? Well, thank you aren't you are all of those things as well? Yeah. Well, and I think that goes back to the piece of like, what do you want in a friend, be that be what you write in a friendship. And that goes, I mean, Sam, my husband, Sam and I have talked about this all the time. Like, if I feel like I'm lacking something in our marriage, I want to be that. And then all of a sudden, it's like, there's this energetic shift. And then Sam, all of a sudden, is showing up in that way that I felt was lacking, right. So that, yeah, what you appreciate, appreciates. And whatever your focus is, is really, you know, like, what you will bring into the situation. So if you're focusing on lack, or you're focusing on an emptiness, in the area of female friendships in your life, like, maybe consider focusing on how you could be the best friend possible. And see what kind of shift occurs after that happens. Mm hmm. Anything else you want to add about qualities that friends should possess? Um, I mean, I could go on like, No, no, no, forever, you could probably should probably move on. Yeah, we can. circle back over. Oh, yeah. And we can do a part two if we needed to, to. Okay. So this is from the account store, a family in Alabama, and she asked, Why are female friendships so challenging? It's hard to find a good female friend. Um, you know, I want to ask you to start this question. Because I think, and, you know, you I'm talking over the years, we've had really different experiences with female friends. Yeah, um, over the year, and not that one is right or wrong, or it's not a direct reflection upon us. We just had different experiences. So I think this might be a better one for you to field. Sure, actually, and all. So in my experience, female friendships have historically been fairly difficult. I've had some great friendships and I have had some, like, rock bottom, what the hell just happened friendships, including, like, what happened to me in Dubai, which I've talked about in other podcasts? And I talked about my ebook, it's, yeah, you know, and I think so much of that, without going into great, great detail whittles down to insecurity, and sometimes jealousy, but I don't want to blame bad relationships on jealousy. I think so often, in female friendships, though, there can be a lot of insecurity and comparison. And I think that leads and, and I'm not saying I haven't been insecure, or jealous, or any of those things myself. But when we are consistently comparing ourselves with the person that we're hanging out with, it's it creates a very, very toxic environment in which no good thing is going to grow in an environment like that. And with women, too, I think our culture teaches us that whoever is the most successful, the most beautiful, the most tall, the most thin, the most blah, blah, blah, is the one that everybody should be like. And so we get into these female groups, and I think there's this animalistic thing that occurs, where we go, okay, who's the most successful, the most pretty the most blah, blah, blah. Now, she's the leader of the group, and we're all just kind of kind of like, circle around her and let her take the lead. Yeah, and it's a very toxic environment to be part of something like that. Versus basing friendships and building friendships based on character. Right, as I just totally, I feel like you described Regina George it from Mean Girls. Yeah, just like yeah, swooped in and followed. Everyone sent maybe a couple times, like forever ago, but yeah, like anyway, continue. Well, no, I'm I mean, I think that is the crux of so many difficulties in female friendship, I think it's rooted in insecurity. And it could be that that person has experienced a lot of trauma, you know, they're not ready to have any kind of real relationships. But in most of the female friendships that I've had that have been really difficult, or that I've observed other people in that have been very difficult. They're all rooted in insecurity. And so again, if you want to be cultivating friendships in which you can be your most true, authentic self, you also have to commit to embodying that person and doing the work that it requires to be that true, most authentic self. And even if you don't feel that way, right now is listening to a podcast the other day. And she brought up a really quick, great question where she said, you know, if I am trying to embody this person that I want to become, I have to think about how that person thinks and how that person acts each and every day. So if you are somebody who envisions having this rich, beautiful life full of meaningful relationships, you also have to be thinking about how am I going to put myself in a position to have those kinds of relationships? How can I add value to the women to women's lives that I come into contact with? What kind of energy Am I putting out there? Is it an energy of neediness? Or is it an energy of love, and empathy and light. And when we start embodying those high vibration energies, we start to attract that kind of stuff back. And I've seen it over and over and over again. I think for me, when I was younger, I was so used to and this is going to sound dramatic, but this was my experience, I was so used to taking shitty behavior and friendships, and women being so like cruel to me truly, and belittling me that as I grew up, and even into high school, I was like, well, the ramification of that was, I'm not worthy of healthy female friendships. And so I would show up to relationships, so desperately just wanting to be a part of it. Versus showing up into relationships going, this is the behavior that I will tolerate, this is the behavior that I will not tolerate, and being intentional about it. So a lot of that onus was on me, too, and not having the self worth to say, I will not accept this behavior, because I was so desperate just to have a female friend. Yeah, to have that connection. Because we know did, you know, like, no bad. We are programmed to, to need that. And it's important. Um, yeah, and when you're, you're in toxic, like abusive friendships. from such a young age, you don't even realize that there can be something different, you know, until you start to do the work, which is like you and I talk about that too, like with therapy stuff, like the the more work that I do on myself around like, Self Realization, self responsibility, etc, etc. It's like, the better, the better, I am able to show up for people in front of you and like, have more reasonable expectations around like the reciprocity and friendships as well. I love that because it puts the onus on us. I think so often. Yeah, we're taught that other people or we say things, like, I'm going to bring it back to an example. Well, that person makes me feel like this. Or that person did this. And so then I had to respond in this manner. And I think as you get older, and as you do this work of self realization, you realize, I'm responsible for my feelings. I'm stronger than my feelings, I get to choose my feelings, and I get to choose my reactions. So if I'm in a relationship with somebody, and they're consistently passive aggressive with me, I can choose to accept that and take it and be a sponge for it. Or I can choose to say, Hey, is there something I did that offended you because it appears that, you know, you're being passive aggressive with me, and it seems like you may have something more to say and so I want to create a safe space for you to say what you need to say to me, or that person is just an angry person and you're getting the overflow. And it's not your responsibility to be the overflow punching bag. Right. And so again, I think it's so cool to take it all all that power back. And this is something you and I talk about all the time in our friendship, when we're talking about scenarios that we find ourselves in, like, how do you take the power back in this scenario, because we don't have to be giving our power away. And again, we are responsible for how we feel we're responsible for the relationships that we let in and let out of our lives. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, it's just so fun run their course. Yeah. You know, like, some are really good people are what the Right, absolutely, they may be what you need at a certain time. But needs change. People change. Yeah, hopefully, you're can always continuing to grow in some manner. And that doesn't mean that you outgrow every friendship, but that doesn't mean you outgrow some. Yeah. And I think it, I think we also need to give and this is something you mentioned, too, when we weren't recording, we need to give ourselves grace, to let go of friendships that are no longer working. And I don't think it necessarily is a selfish thing to say, Oh, well, this friendship doesn't serve me. And it's not like meeting my needs. I'm just over it. It's not about that. It's about this friendship, or at least for me, it's this friendship has become something that feels toxic to me. And more often than not, when I talk to this person, I feel drained rather than enlightened. And I don't think that that is a sustainable way to live if we want to live healthy, vibrant, meaningful lives. Yeah, well, I mean, and if you notice that the relationship is no longer serving you kids does a really good the other party recognizes that too. Yeah. You know, so. Is it really that? I don't want to say is it really that big of a deal? Because it I mean, sometimes there because there's sometimes a grief process around that? Oh, literally walking away from a relationship or a friendship that you've been cultivating for no other reason, then y'all have been friends a long time. You know, like, yeah, yeah, like that. It's like a loyalty for length of time versus like, loyalty for what that person actually deserves of you. And that is something that I've struggled with, because I'm a pretty loyal person. And yeah, no fault. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm grateful for your loyalty. But yeah, but you've earned it, you've earned it. 1,000%. But in the past, I have stayed in relationships simply because I felt obligated to because there was a history there. And I think again, right, we need to give ourselves grace to go. This isn't what is best for me. And probably not for this other person. And so it's time to move forward and let that be what it is, and appreciate it for what it was. And let bygones be bygones. Right. Yeah. Um, so next question is from Claudia, which is my mother. And she said, Oh, Claudia. I know. She said, how do you move through an argument with grace and on to the next level of friendship? Have we ever had a fight? I don't remember. No, I don't think so. We've never had a fight. We've had disagreements where we think different things. But I think there's such a foundation of respect and love, that there's a safe, there's like an unspoken safety in our friendship that you can have differing opinions, and I'm still gonna love you to pieces. Yeah, absolutely. Um, can you we repeat the question, of course, it's a deep one, how do you move through an argument with grace and on to the next level of friendship? So yeah, one of the first things that comes to mind is something that you have said over and over, is you can't have healthy relationships with people who are unhealthy. And so I think it also matters where your bar is, so to speak, like, is this a relationship that is a healthy relationship, and you just had a genuine argument? Or is this a relationship in which you're arguing about toxic silly bullshit, and it's not really even worth moving through. So let's just assume that this is an argument with somebody that you love that you do have a foundation of trust with? And how like, what steps you take to move forward because I have a couple of ideas, but I'm sure That you have some thoughts on this too. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I would probably say, um, I don't, I don't necessarily experience a lot of arguments or that kind of level of turmoil in my friendships. Yeah, really however, well, different. Different. So, a fun fact for your followers I have if they don't know this about me, I don't know why they would have a twin sister. And we are night and day, we are very different. We are very close and love each other. So much, but we are so wildly different. Yeah. And literally every way imaginable. Yeah. Um, and she and I have worked really hard. And the last, I would say, we were in our mid 30s. Now. So I would say this isn't start until like late 20s, early 30s. around our communication, because I mean, arguments really, ultimately boil down to like, communication, how are you willing to communicate with one another. And when it starts to get heated, we have gotten to the point now where we're like, stop, I cannot move forward in this conversation without saying something that I don't want to have, I think we need to table this. And let's circle back. And if that other person, person pushes, it's like, Hey, I drew up a boundary, please respect it, I'm gonna walk away, and they keep going, then we fist fight, no kidding. She keeps going, you know, you just walk away, and you close the door and cool down, you're like, I can't show up in this conversation as my best self. And we need to stop. Like, I can feel my blood pressure rising. We need however it is that you want to say it, but like, being okay with conflict. And recognizing that like, I don't know, I think we're so often taught conflict resolution, when we're kids, you know, growing up, it's like, oh, well, you say I'm sorry, or whatever. And it's like, well, actually, if you worked better on your communication skills over all, yep, you can avoid conflict by changing the way that you communicate with people initially, I was gonna, I was gonna say the exact same thing, like we are taught conflict resolution. What about conflict prevention, which always has to do with communication, you know, I think now as I'm older, and I become a healthier version of myself, I do have like, conflict with my family. But with the other relationships in my life, there's very little conflict. And it's generally because I try to address things as they come up, where you know, somebody up the boundary of mine, and I say, Hey, you know what, and I pull them aside, I never want to shame anybody publicly or make them uncomfortable, but pull them aside and say, Hey, that really hurt my feelings when you said that. Or, hey, that action that you just did made me feel like, my time doesn't matter to you. And that's not valuable to you. And I'm not okay with that. So how do we fix it? And I think those kinds of small conflict preventative tactics, really stop a lot of things from snowballing into conflicts that are hard to ever get over. Yeah. Yeah. I think it all lately. Gosh, and I think something that you and I have in common is that even before we ever met, communication was one of our biggest obsessions. Like, how can I be an active communicator? And then I think in our friendship, we, I'm sure, according to many people, if they sat in on our conversations would be like, man, they overcommunicate to the extreme. But I think that is also probably why we haven't had any knockdown, drag out fights. It's because we say, Hey, I'm feeling really vulnerable right now. And I need your take on this. Or, you know, there's a lot of prefacing what we're talking about, right our feeling or what we need during that gap ation, and I think that makes all the difference in the world. Right, or being like, Hey, I'm going through a difficult time. I know we have plans tonight. I am beat like, I am not going to be great company. Can I reschedule? Yeah, we? I mean, I think we rescheduled this podcast a couple of times, because I felt like that. You felt like that at one point. And yeah, this goes back to the grace where humans were impacted. Perfect, we're not going to be our flowery, bubbly selves 100% of the time. And I think one of the beauties of friendship is being like, I see you in your glory. And I see you and your sadness. And I love both of those equally. And if you need a little space, take a little space. If you need me to be there, I'm going to be there. But whatever it is that you need, just let me know. And I'm going to respect it. And I think that's another thing important is like respecting that not making up stories in your head of what that other person is thinking or feeling, like asking clarifying questions, but truly respecting whatever it is that they're going through and giving them space for it. Agreed? Yeah. Okay, next question. Ooh, this is a good one, two. So Ashley, this is my friend, Ashley from college. She said, I sometimes run into issues with comparing myself with my female friends. I would love some tips. Hmm. Um, I, I don't know if I'm the right person to answer that, oh, maybe, maybe. So I don't really struggle with that, in particular, myself, because I am just, my female friends are so very vastly different from one another. Yes, they, they really are. And I love it. Like, I love to cultivate relationships with people that are different than me, that are different from each other, and my girlfriends know each other, but they aren't necessarily all really close friends. Sure, um, which is, I mean, just kind of how it is. But like, I don't, this kind of goes back to the unconditional thing. Like, I am not in relationships with people. Because they have a certain thing, or they look a certain way or whatever. Like, I just, like people who are kind and are great. Like, yeah, that's who I want to spend my time with. Um, but again, kind of circling back to what we're talking about earlier, with, the more work I've done on myself, it comes down to the security thing, you know, and it's okay, cuz we're all gonna have moments of insecurity here and there. But literally, I just, I don't spend a lot of time like benchmarking my life against anybody else. Like, I make, I just do my thing, like, I make decisions for my life based off of like, what I want to do, um, and like, really kind of own my personal agency and that So yeah, I, um, and I was trying to think back like, I'm doing me wrong, I'm competitive. Um, but I'm not a competitive friend. I'm competitive. Unless, like, I want to crush somebody's soul in board games, and, and whatever, like, I show up competitively that way, but I don't, I don't really I'm not like that. But yeah, I don't know that I really, really have you're not gauging your self worth on who is the better candidate in the friendship or who's more successful or who's prettier or thinner or taller or whatever? You're not based? No, I mean, no, no, no. And I don't, I think, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, that's okay. So I think I don't remember. Well, yeah, we like, okay. It's just, there's just so much, there's so much to unpack here. I think for me, when it comes to comparison, I've definitely been guilty of this. And I've definitely been on the receiving end of feeling like somebody is comparing themselves with something that I've done and it feels uncomfortable to. Yeah, I think something that comes to mind is this quote, and I forget who said it, so forgive me, but it's comparison is the thief of joy. And it is. And so I think it circles back to us and what kind of mindset we're going into a friendship with. And if we feel that comparison, things start creeping up actively going, I'm not going to go there. That's not what's best for me. That's not what's best for this person that I'm with. That's not what is best for the world. It's not good for anybody. And also, I think it's self worth. It's, yeah, working on ourselves, to the point where we say, I am falling in love with who I am and I I'm flawed, and I have weaknesses, but I also have these amazing strengths. And I'm all the things just like everybody else is all the things. And so, right, there's, again, just a lot of grace, but a lot of ownership, I think that needs to take place if you want to have a really healthy relationship with somebody. And if you are showing up in a scenario where you have worked on your self worth, and you've done that work, and you still feel like somebody is doing that comparison thing, or making comments or passive aggressive, you know, whatever's maybe that's a signal that that's not a healthy relationship for you to continue to cultivate. Right? Or, like, flip the script a little bit, and it's like, Okay, well, how much of this is mine to own? You know, like, is, also is that person that you're comparing your, your yourself against? truly happy? Yeah, I think a lot of times to make the assumption like, oh, last version. Yeah, like, it's this curated idea. Because, again, unless somebody is willing to get like, deep and vulnerable with you, like, and if they are willing to get deep and vulnerable with you, then there usually isn't a reason to compare, because they're like, oh, you're human, just like me, you know, like, there's, yeah, I don't know. Um, when you have a heart, I think a lot of like that. It's hard to compare, like, when you look at somebody's eyes, and you hear their stories, and you see their heart, it's really I find it difficult to compare, because it just feels so human. It's not a competition, really, and no, no, no, like, celebrate each other, you know, and in, in the difference in the uniqueness. Um, yeah. You know, I think so my dad and I had a really deep conversation this past weekend. And I was sharing with him some of the things that I admire about him, because my dad and I, as you know, have had a very difficult relationship. And we had this deep talk, and I wanted to end it on a really positive note. So I said, let's talk about what we really like about one another. And one of the things that I feel like I inherited from my dad, based on watching him was, he delighted in his friends success, he was never jealous kind of guy, he took ownership. Like he had, I mean, my, my dad has friends that are so wildly successful, they have homes all over the world, and millions, if not a billion dollars in the bank, like literally, and my dad just always celebrated with them. And would take that back and go, Well, if I want that, then it's my responsibility to take the steps to get it to work to do the work. And that's something that I appreciate that I appreciate in my dad so much, but it's also something that I feel like I've inherited, when I feel like when you have success in doing something, it's also my success. I'm like, so statically happy for you that there's no room for jealousy there. You know. And then again, if it's, if you are experiencing something that I want, my mo then is to go, Well, hey, what can I do or work on to move in that direction? It's, we can't ever expect anyone to hand us stuff on a silver platter. Now. Yeah, I agree. definitely agree. Okay, we are coming. Oh, well, oh, sorry. real fast, though. Yeah, it's also difficult, I think, to going like scaling back and looking at women and the pressure that is that is continuously on women to be a certain thing look a certain way. You know, like, I I'm 35 and I live in Georgia, people ask me, like, I'm like an old maid. They're like, why are you not married and don't have children? You and me? Like it's there's so much pressure to kind of fit this society, norms of what you're supposed to do and what you're supposed to look like and how life is supposed to be and put you in that little box, you know, and it's like, oh, no, no, no. Maybe mine is in a box. Maybe mine is like an inverted triangle. Circle after it is that feels good to you. I've totally Told ya. And I think again, like I don't want to be There's like a drum? Or maybe I do, actually, Yes, I do. What we want out of other people we have to be willing to give and to show up as, and we get to define that, too, we absolutely get to define that. And if something feels icky, like some expectation on you, like, you're supposed to be married and have five kids, or blah, blah, blah, we can choose not to make that part of our belief system. And we can choose not to cultivate that value in our lives. Yes. There's so we have so much ownership over what we want our lives to look like. Yeah. Well, and I mean, again, we're, we're inundated with just content constantly nowadays, and very little of it is real. And it's just a constant like self reminder. If there is a moment of insecurity, you're like, Oh, I wish I had that thing or looked that way. Or went on that vacation or whatever. It's like, it's not real. It's not real. So much of it isn't real. Yeah. Yeah. And again, using that as a reminder, absolutely. And even if it was real, what if we flipped the script and send that person happy, loving energy and said, Okay, I want that. Now, it's my responsibility to do the steps to create that for myself. Right? You know, so often in life, like, we ask ourselves questions that are so toxic, like, why can't I have that? Or if only this were different, then I could blah, blah, blah. But I listened to this beautiful podcast on asking ourselves healthy questions, like stop putting those kinds of questions into your mind and entertaining those possibilities. Let's take the power back. Let's take the ownership back and say, What can I do to change this situation? What can I do to change the scenario? Right, and then you've got a starting point. And it feels so much better and so much more empowered than helpless. And just, yeah, eating, you know? Right. Right. Yeah, we don't want that. Okay, we're rounding this out. Question number six. This is from Ariel. She said, as an adult. How do you cultivate new female friendships that aren't online? What do you think about this? Um, I mean, I think that you and I are kind of a perfect example of that. Like, we were in a situation where we were kind of forced to be together for an hour or two. Yeah, initially, um, but it? I don't know. Like, it's one of those if you bump into somebody and you have a conversation, and it clicks. Yeah, follow us off out there. Hey, I would love to do this again, sometime. I would love to grab some coffee, whatever, and then believe that that person really wants to and follow through. Um, but I mean, I guess it's kind of we're, we're in a global pandemic right now. So yeah, people aren't really, you know, they're not putting them selves out a lot of times. Yeah. But at the same time, I, you know, I listened to another interesting podcast about female friendships actually, just recently. And really, yeah, yeah, it was like perfect timing. But this woman was saying, It's from the podcast, French kiss life. And Tanya was talking about putting yourself in scenarios in which you can meet people and owning it and going, Hey, I'm going to intentionally show up as myself not going to shrink. And if people like it fantastic, because then I know I can be myself with that person, or at least start those steps of being myself with that person. That person is turned off, then great. You just you know that you just sifted the gold from the dross. You know what I mean? Right, being intentional about showing up as yourself, but also putting yourself in situations where you are around people who are interested in the same things as you. If you love to read, go to a book club, go to a book signing. If you love to do your I can't tell you how many friendships I have made going to yoga classes and just striking up conversations with people, even business relationships. Right? If you're interested in a sport, go join a league and during COVID There are definitely restrictions, but there's there still activities happening. And so I think we have to be willing to put ourselves out there and go and get a little uncomfortable, you know, and again, like, let's go back to let it be a slow build. You don't need to have somebody know everything about you off the bat. Let it be something where it's bite sized chunks. And trust is formed. You get to know that person's character. And you go from there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anything else you want? If you don't like to read? Yeah, if you don't like to read, don't go looking for friends. Like, don't lose. My point is don't put yourself in a situation to try to connect with people just because you think there'll be people there? They may not be your people. Yeah, definitely. I think Yeah. Join me. Oh, he did. Yeah. Lisa has the golden retriever with a personality that I love him. So but, um, I think we talked about, like, what kind of takeaways we wanted women to walk away with after listening to this podcast, and one of them was to feel empowered to relieve to leave toxic relationships so that your precious energy is spent on cultivating healthy, vibrant, life affirming things. Do you want to add anything to that piece? Yeah, no, I don't think so. It's just, I didn't get to that point. Like, there's some patience and some self grace there, too, that I think needs to be said, because, um, I didn't get comfortable with that mentality until I was like, 28. You know, 29. Older than that. Yeah. So I don't know that the average age of your listeners, but just like, being compassionate with yourself around that. Yeah. You know, yeah. Okay. It doesn't have to be black and white. Either. It doesn't have to be we're friends or friends. It can be, hey, I love this person from a distance. And I see them occasionally. But I'm not trying to cultivate a friendship with them on a weekly basis. Yeah. Just boundaries and whether or not you need to express those boundaries, or just have them within yourself. Like, okay, well, so and so has continuously said something hurtful or whatever, if you have the direct conversation, awesome. If not, spend too much time with that person anymore. It's okay. Like, yeah, you're allowed to have boundaries in your life. And and these are amazing. And people who have terrible boundaries. Hate when you put up boundaries? Oh, yes, they do. They love the system. And then, you know, hey, this isn't my kind of friend. Yeah, no, thank you. Pass Pass. Because that goes back to, you know, my friend all of and I talk about that all the time. And you and I have now we talk about all the time as well, like, an unwillingness to be in any kind of relationship with somebody that doesn't have a significant degree of ease. You know what I mean? Like is, life is hard way. So her language around that, but life like hard enough? We don't need difficult friendships? We just No, no, not at all. No, again, again, I think the more and more I get to know myself and my values, and I cultivate the kind of human I want to be out in the world, the more I attract high vibrational relationships into my life. Mm hmm. Yeah. And that leads perfectly into the second takeaway that we talked about, which is know your values. Like if you value loyalty, and you value trust, and you value integrity, go be those things. And then, you know, have that be one of the barometers of like feeling out whether or not you want to be friends with somebody, right. Third takeaway was, give yourself a break. You don't need to be perfect. And we need and the other person doesn't need to be perfect either. You know, the most How boring of a relationship with that be anyway. No, it's awful. And you know what? Well, and I think part of my problem in female friendships in my younger self was, I felt so unsafe to be anything but perfect. And that was on me that I was unwilling to be vulnerable. I was unwilling to share the areas in my life in which I was struggling. And that is not an interesting kind of friendship to be a part of when people are only sharing Their highlight reel, or they're only trying to be positive all the time, which was me, I was trying to be positive all the time, even if my heart was breaking, you know? So, yeah. Yeah. And I think I think it's like, as women, we're conditioned to do that. Anyway, it's this guy like, self sacrificial, like, Okay, well, I'm willing to, to kind of diminish my pain and my difficult time or my suffering in whatever ways because I don't want to rock the boat, or I don't want to sound like a negative Nancy or I don't want to do like, it's not it's not a sense. Yeah. And if people are going to label you as such, then they're not the right people. No, they're not and good. You know, good riddance, like Elizabeth Gilbert said, like, I wish you light and I wish you love. And that's enough, you know? Yep. Okay. Anything else that you want to add into this friendship equation? and encouraging women on the path to healthy female friendships? Yeah, I think I mean, just kind of, in summary, like, there is a soul sister out there for you somewhere, period, you know, or the pole. And it could be that, it could be that one friend shows up for you in one way, and meets your, like, intellectual stimulation that you need, and one hits your funny bone and one hits your party bone or what? You know. Yeah. Awesome. If that person is all of the above, like, sure me. Um, but you know, like, be patient. Be in your own integrity all the time to you know, somebody is starting to show you their true colors, believe them. Yeah. But on the flip side, if they also if somebody else is like, hey, I want to hang out with you believe them, too. Yeah. Don't be the kind of friend take some practice. Yeah. Be the kind of friends that you want. I think that's one of the golden rules. Yeah, definitely. Don't be afraid to like, I think this is another thing is, you know, life is difficult. And it's easy to become jaded in the world that we live in. And I want to say this with friendship. Don't be afraid to fall in love with another person to, you know what I mean? Allow yourself to truly love someone and that energy. I don't even know how to put it into words, but it creates this beautiful flowering soil that allows a really gorgeous, lifelong friendship, to thrive. And it's going to be vulnerable. Sometimes it's going to be a little uncomfortable. Sometimes it's going to require courage, sometimes, but I totally agree with you there is that soul sister out there for each and every one of us. And until you find that person, let's connect online. Let's try and create that kind of community. You know, let's be intentional about being active where we are where we can be right now. Whoo. Okay, so one more thing. Where can people find you online? What's your Instagram? Find me? Ha. I'm not where they can't find me often online. No kidding. My golden retriever photos. So if you are a dog fan, follow her. Yeah, I have a few like all my stories on Instagram or, um, I'm on Facebook. Lisa covic. lis. K, and I'll spell it LYF. Yeah. And then I'm on Instagram at Lisa kV ik covic. Yeah, and I'll link I'll link those two just because I know some people might have some difficulty spelling your last name? Yeah, yes. Neither one of you so much for a just being somebody who enhances my life in every single way. And also her willingness to take the time to talk about friendship because I think so many women This is such a pain point. Yeah, yeah. And I don't want it to be anymore. Well, thank you for having me. I hope we can do it again. Oh, my friend. I love you too. You have been listening to self discovery with Jaclyn Steele. For more information or to submit a question please visit Jaclyn steele.com slash self discovery pod. On Instagram. I am at Jaclyn Steele and that's j AC Li n s t e l e and on YouTube you can find me@youtube.com slash official Jaclyn Steele. If you haven't already, please sign up for my high vibe Thursday newsletter where I send one email a week aimed at inspiring and elevating your day because you freaking deserve it. You can sign up in the show notes or by visiting my website Jaclyn Steele, calm. May you go and be big And brave and bold today. Remember that life gets easier when we know who we are. And as always, and until next time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.