Mouth Breathing, Sleep & Stress: How Nose Breathing Turns Off Fight-or-Flight ModeMouth Breathing, Sleep & Stress: How Nose Breathing Turns Off Fight-or-Flight Mode

In this high-frequency episode, Jaclyn sits down with airway health pioneer Dr. Ben Miraglia to explore how the way we breathe affects the way we live. From sleep issues to anxiety to behavior in children, airway health is at the core of so much of our wellness—and yet, it’s often overlooked. Dr. Ben shares what signs to look out for, what healing can look like, and how awareness around our breath might just change the trajectory of our lives. This episode is equal parts science and soul, and it’s a must-listen for every parent, healer, and growth-minded human.

Connect with Dr. Ben Miraglia:

 🔗 LinkedIn
📸  Instagram
🌐  Airway Health Solutions
🌐  Toothpillow Website
📘  Toothpillow Facebook

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Dr. Ben Moralia
• 5:09 From Fixing Teeth to Growing Jaws
• 13:02 How Nose Breathing Affects Nervous System
• 19:55 Why Modern Jaws Are Underdeveloped
• 32:36 Signs of Underdeveloped Jaws in Children
• 42:56 Mouth Breathing and Health Problems
• 52:48 How Toothpillow Helps Children
• 1:01:11 Preventing and Treating Jaw Issues

Transcript

Jaclyn: 0:00

All right. Hello everyone, and welcome to The Freq Show. Today we have a special guest on, Dr. Ben Miraglia. Will you give us a little bit of background on what you do, because I find your career specificity to be so interesting.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 0:18

Yeah, and thank you for having me. So I am a dentist, I'm a general dentist, and about 31 years ago I got into dentistry. For 10 years I fixed the teeth. So I spent the first 10 years fixing the teeth and I was good at that and that's crowns and bridges and implants. But then, 10 years in, I'm looking at these kids, I'm looking at their mouths, I'm looking at the braces and it's not adding up. It doesn't look good, there's something missing, it just felt wrong. And you know you're looking at 11, 12 year olds getting braces being in them for years, maybe not getting the right results, not looking as good as it could, being dissatisfied. Then, of course, they stop wearing a retainer, it goes right back. So you're watching like wow, this was years of work. And then they don't wear a retainer for a few months and the teeth are shifting right away. Then the really one, the last straw, was the pulling of teeth. Pulling out permanent teeth just seemed so wrong.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 1:13

20 years ago I started pursuing a different path. I wanted to learn about growth and development, expansive orthodontics, early opportunities, because what I was looking at didn't look good enough or to be the best way. There must be another way. So 20 years ago, I go down this rabbit hole of growth and development treating early, as young as age three. So there are groups out there that do this. I didn't invent anything. I learned from other people who taught me. They were mentors then, but they were the small groups, not the majority.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 1:45

The majority is traditional model braces when you're 11 or 12. That's the majority. Everybody knows that. That's what I had, that's the traditional, me too, the traditional model. And we kind of know, looking back at the last three generations, maybe that's not the best way to do it.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 1:59

There could be alternatives, and so, yeah, the short story then is taking the early growth and development, early intervention expansive route meant okay, now you're actually, you're taking the focus off the teeth, you're focusing on the jaws. So the focus switch to the jaws is all about hey, you know, I already know the teeth are going to be crowded. That's what happens to most kids. Most kids have smaller jaws and crowded teeth later on. Well, the teeth are the symptom. How about we work on the cause, the underdeveloped jaw structure.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 2:31

So that's where things turned for me 20 years ago. I stopped fixing teeth. I started attending to kids between three and 11 to grow the jaws and when their jaws were growing, the teeth start fitting in. So, even though we're not even focused on the teeth, when the jaws get bigger and you have better breathing and musculature, all of a sudden your teeth start lining up better, your bite improves, and then some kids never get braces and the ones who don't need them for a few months, they'll get a few months in braces or even a few months in aligners. Now, today you can have aligners.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 3:01

So this whole pathway started 20 years ago. But then, one thing after another, you're getting pieces of the puzzle. I didn't know everything then, I don't know it now, but what I got was a piece of the puzzle at a time. And, sure enough, with years of treatment, you start recognizing hey, these kids are not bedwetting anymore. These kids don't get ear infections anymore. These kids don't get headaches anymore. These kids don't wake in the middle of the night, they sleep through the night. These kids stop grinding their teeth, these kids stop becoming behavioral problems, these kids start performing better in school. The list was like endless and it began as just anecdotal parents telling me something like oh, we're just happy to be past the bedwetting. And wait, wait, what did you say? Because I wasn't asking that early on.

Jaclyn: 3:46

Yeah, well, you don't correlate. Yeah, you don't correlate a jaw or teeth with bedwetting, right.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 3:52

And 20 years ago I didn't have those connections yet. And so all of a sudden I had parents telling me you know you're, you're a spander. You know we think they are sleeping better because of it. And then you're paying attention and, sure enough, kids are sleeping through the night when they would wake up. So I'm watching the jaws get bigger and the teeth are fitting better.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 4:10

Meanwhile, what's happening is it is the jaw size that dictates how well you can breathe through your nose, what we call the airway loosely, we call it airway. You know that's your airway, the space you're breathing through, well, from the nostril to behind the tongue, that section where the air has to flow, that space, that space is built by how well your jaws are growing. So it turns out the teeth are a symptom and they're like the child's ace. Problem really is the crowded teeth and bad bites.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 4:40

The real problem with the jaw size is well, now we can't breathe as well through our nose, but the child who can't breathe well through their nose. We have compensation for that. We're going to open our mouth, we're going to let the air going in and out of our mouth. That's like a safety valve. That is not a good way to be breathing and I'm sure we'll dive deeper. But so my history is that, yeah, 20 years ago I changed from fixing teeth to growing jaws. Change from fixing teeth to growing jaws, piece of puzzle at a time, and you realize, oh my God, this is an answer for a lot of symptoms downstream.

Jaclyn: 5:09

So now we grow the jaws early and we play with the teeth later if needed. Well, and I think this is so timely because I think people are waking up to the nasty side of mouth breathing, and it is, you know, it is a safety switch, especially for kids, you know, when they have a cold or something like that, or adults, when we are not feeling well and we have our airways blocked. But I have I'm by no means even remotely as educated on you as this, but I do have a book called Breathe and I've gotten into mouth taping at night and I find that those deep breaths not only do I sleep better, but it's also it's related to my nervous system too. My nervous system gets a reset and I become so much more calm.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 5:56

Yes, absolutely. And so that's a total connection in how the nervous system is working. Because when we think about the nose breathing to mouth breathing switch, when we can't breathe well through our nose, it is your brain that opens your mouth to mouth breathe. But because that's a safety valve, it's a protective mechanism, because obviously bad things would happen if you can't breathe through your nose but your mouth doesn't open. That would be bad, that would go badly.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 6:25

Well, when your body has something in place to protect you, it's called fight or flight. So the crazy thing is that it is a fight or flight response to have mouth breathing. The fight or flight mechanism is that sympathetic nervous system. So basically, when you can't breathe well through your nose in order to open your mouth, you have to have an active fight or flight response. Your body is in sympathetic drive or fight or flight mode and that's when your mouth opens to relieve you of the poor breathing through your nose. So just what you mentioned taping your mouth closed keeps the airflow through your nose. Nicely, you're basically turning off your fight or flight reactions while you're sleeping, which those are not supposed to happen when we're sleeping. That means abandonment, sleep.

Jaclyn: 7:06

No, and we're supposed to be rejuvenating while we sleep. Yes, I feel like, as you said in the beginning of the podcast episode, but there's such a cascading effect for all of this and if we have these children growing up, mouth breathing and then constantly in fight or flight, not only does that? Affect them biologically, but it affects them psychologically too. So no wonder there are behavioral issues if they're constantly in fight or flight, that is mind blowing to think about so.

Jaclyn: 7:37

I want to understand why, over the last, however many yearsaws are underdeveloping versus ancient civilizations. Sure, I forget his name, but he started a foundation that I have listened to their podcast many, many, many times. It's called the Wise Traditions Podcast. Oh yes, have you heard?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 8:02

of it.

Jaclyn: 8:03

Yes, it's incredible. You would be such a great guest for them um but this doctor went around all over the world and studied jaw development and teeth structure, and then studied the diets of these people and what they were eating. Um, and it's so, so fascinating. So what has happened? Why are we now having all of these issues with underdeveloped jaws?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 8:28

You might even be referring to Dr Weston Price.

Jaclyn: 8:30

Yes, Thank you. My mom brain has fully kicked in, and so I'm losing it. But it is Weston Price, and I have followed him throughout my pregnancy too, and based my diet on what he recommends my pregnancy too, and based my diet on what he recommends.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 8:47

Sure, yes. So Dr Weston Price, dentist, and he packed up him and his wife to travel the world because he wanted to see other cultures and how they lived. He was a little dissatisfied with the Western industrial model and this is going back over a hundred years ago. He was like I don't think this is going to go well, the way we're doing what we're doing with the food and how we're changing it. And that was when it started changing the food.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 9:06

He goes around the world and he goes and he visits basically isolated, aboriginal, natural, primitive words we would use to describe pre-industrial or pre-Western cultures. They're basically living off the land and whatever you can grow or catch, you would basically have very little preparation of it and you'd eat mostly a raw diet kind of thing. And in those cultures the meat product, whatever they might catch or find in the meat product, would be cured with a little salt because there's no refrigeration and preservatives, but yet they get the meat to last because of the curing process and the salting. But that makes what we would refer to as jerky Like it's very tough and the salting but that makes what we would refer to as jerky, like beef jerky. Yeah, it's really tough and when you're doing that in a natural environment, the curing process when you're only doing with the sun and salt, that curing process turns that into leather. So that process makes their beef jerky like leather but it makes ours look like a soft food today, Like if you pick up a beef jerky bag and you chew it. By comparison, the beef jerky we buy at the store today would be considered softer than the original method of getting it cured through and salted.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 10:14

Well, basically what he learned and others after him, known as anthropologists the anthropology research shows that we use the word malocclusion but bad bites, crowded teeth, bad bites that's our fancy word for what's happening with the jaws and the bites. But it is an acquired condition, it is not genetic and the early trigger is the switch to softer foods, the early soft food, so baby food, mush pureeing anything that the western industrial culture does to the early food is basically pureeing it to a pulp. It's like a liquid. So you're a drinker, you're not a chewer. We need chewing to grow the jaws. So the most fascinating thing is that the upper and lower jaw bones they grow primarily by chewing forces. So if, if you are chewing it's like building a muscle, exactly so the yeah.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 11:07

And in the human being the bone does yield to the muscle and form follows function. So if you're using these muscles correctly, proper function with your jaw muscles, then all of a sudden your form is correct. Form follows function and then, of course, if you're using these muscles correctly, bone is stimulated to grow. So the muscles don't grow because of the bone, the bone grows because of the muscle activity. Well, if we have an early part diet basically the shortest answer.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 11:34

For why are the kids having so many crowded teeth? And almost every child we see, almost every child we see, has crowded teeth and a bad bite that needs braces. It's very rare to meet a child who has their. They're growing up on their own with all their teeth and going where they belong and they get it all of them, including the wisdom teeth, when they're 20. Like, that is a unicorn today. That's a unicorn to meet a child who could grow on their own and have all their teeth end up perfect and the wisdom teeth come in. But that was 99.9% of the population prior to soft food. So teeth come in, but that was 99.9% of the population prior to soft food. So it's as many kids as we? Yeah, it's the exact opposite. What we look at today is it feels like 99.9% of the children are going to grow up and need braces or help with their teeth and jaws and can't fit their wisdom teeth. Very rare to meet one that doesn't need the help.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 12:21

Well, the other way is a few hundred years ago, before the early soft food, and it really can be trapped within a few hundred years. A few hundred years ago, when you're looking at anthropology research, the skulls that they kind of find in burial sites and then measure they're all fully grown jaws with 32 teeth. There's very little evidence of malocclusion or small jaws, crooked teeth and bad bites prior to early soft food. But then they follow it forward. They kind of look at cultures that are seem to be taking steps towards becoming industrialized, because you know how this works, we okay, we start to trade and we want to build a little something bigger and then we want to advance. Well, as cultures go from their isolated living, the first thing they notice is there's trade for food, there's food trade going on, and as soon as the early soft diet starts and the infant is given mush, then we start seeing the crowded teeth and the bad bite.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 13:16

So the number one answer for why are the jaws smaller is the early soft food. The early soft food makes you a drinker of the food, not a chewer of the food, and most of your jaw growth occurs between zero and two years old. We get 54% of it, so 54% of the jaw, and then there's like another 10% from two to four. So we're 65. We're like two thirds of our jaw growth is supposed to be done by four years old and meanwhile we're not chewing hard food in the first two years and sometimes three, because it's so soft. But now you look at the American Western diet, oh gosh.

Jaclyn: 13:49

Everything is soft.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 13:52

Like, whatever you could put in front of a child today, they could gum that. They wouldn't even need teeth to mush and eat that. So we're talking about having like really just an all out soft food from the beginning of the day to the end of the day, so there is no real chewing activity going on. So the jaws don't grow and the teeth come in crowded and then we wait, we make, we compound the error by waiting and treating them later because the teeth are the symptom. And when you try to treat the teeth 11 and 12, well, we have the wrong jaw size. So imagine, trying to arrange you're trying to arrange 32 cars in a garage that was built for 20 or 24.

Jaclyn: 14:27

Oh, my brother had that. He had to have multiple teeth removed. He had very large teeth for his jaw and it was horrendous, so painful such a process. It took years to correct. So I'm thinking, you know, I'm about to be a second time mom and obviously the rule of thumb right now is to give your infant milk and then soft foods for the entire first year. So I want to be preventative. I am totally fine to go against the grain, but what is your recommendation there to help build that jaw strength, because it makes so much sense. It's like a muscle You've got to use it in order for it to grow and be strong.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 15:11

Yeah, and so the sequence of events. So I'll base that answer off of anthropology research, because by no means am I an expert at growing an infant and creating it. My three kids are older. I'm on the other end. I've got 24, 23, and 18. So going back 20 years ago they were already moving along. So I did it wrong. Then we had the blender, we made the mush, we did everything wrong, saw food and then we had to start working on them. So I began when they were like five years old. They were part of the early kids we treated.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 15:49

But going back to an answer for that, I would say okay, let's look at the anthropology research. It showed that in all of these cultures that are pre-industrial, pre-western, living in the natural world, we would transition from breastfeeding to hard food and it begins between six and nine months old and usually, yeah, the corresponding age. That six to nine months old, it's when the child has the head control. So they have to have head control first and usually between six and nine months old that kicks in where they start A little bit of control for their head. The second thing is they can grab and pull to their mouth Like they can get it themselves, because you're looking to have the natural instincts of feeding yourself kicking in. So somewhere between six and nine months old, the infant has control of their head and they can grab and pull to their mouth and kind of gnaw on things.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 16:25

But then there are groups out there that help almost like instruction manuals for parents how to introduce solid food to an infant. So the two groups that I like to reference and refer to are Baby Lead Weaning. Baby Lead Weaning has a book, but they also have an Instagram following where you can start looking into that. Baby Lead Weaning the book, but they also have an Instagram following where you can start looking into that. I have the book Baby Lead Weaning. The book is yeah, it's Jill Rapley, tracy Marquette, beautiful book and it's how to introduce solid foods to your infant.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 16:52

It's an instruction manual because there's a way to do it right. You know there's a way to do it wrong. There's a way to do it right. No-transcript. And Solid Starts is another Instagram presence, but they have all of the instruction manuals, basically at the different ages, what they can handle and how to do it. So I follow those two groups. I recommend them to people to look into and I don't have any, I have no financial connection to either one of them whatsoever. So, for full disclosure, I'm just sharing information because I believe that's really helpful. And there are parents who want to try to do it differently at the beginning. And, believe me, if we did it differently at the beginning, I wouldn't have to be jumping in between three and 12 to help so many kids who are breathing so badly and having so many struggles. If we could get the jaws growing earlier, this wouldn't be an issue like it was a while back.

Jaclyn: 18:02

Oh, that's so fascinating. I think I follow the baby led weaning account, but I'm going to follow the other one too, and we'll put those in the show notes for listeners as well.

Jaclyn: 18:11

My next question is if we are being prevent, like we're trying to be preventative, right? Obviously, every mother wants her child to grow up and have a strong jaw and not have crowded teeth. But what are the signs? You know, I'm a mother of a three and a half year old. What are the signs that we need to be looking out for if their jaw is underdeveloping?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 18:37

Sure, yes, and one of the most obvious ones would be in the baby teeth. So the baby teeth when the jaws are growing beautifully and we don't see this very often you'll know in a minute when.

Jaclyn: 18:50

I say it.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 18:50

Oh, I'm sure, when the jaws are growing beautifully, a three-year-old should have a significant gap between all the baby teeth. Yeah, and that gap it should be. It should look like the size of ready for this, the width of a nickel. So our nickel, our nickel coin is the thickest of the coins. It's a pretty thick coin.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 19:11

Just imagine, as you are now looking at three, four and five-year-olds, when you might find a set of baby teeth that has a nickel gap between all those baby teeth Hardly any. Yeah, rare. I mean again, we call that a unicorn. If we find a child coming through our practice that has that kind of gapping, we're like, oh my God, we found a unicorn today. And then it's very rare because we have research that Dr Bogue did all this way back when to show what's the tracking for good growth. And he knew, hey, the kids who have baby teeth, that a nickel fits between them all. They grow up and they have their permanent teeth, go right in line, no crowding. So that's the tracking for the teeth being the indicator. Okay, so we could look at the teeth and say, oh, if our three-, four or five-year-old does not have a nickel between the teeth, we have teeth that are together. Now most people will notice there's like no space in the baby teeth. That's primarily what we see. There aren't really any spaces, they're just together, baby teeth that are together or have very little spacing. That's going to be crowding in the permanent teeth and there's no self-correction, there's no auto-fixing, there's no way this kind of fixes it itself. We don't have the opportunity to be a baby teeth together or less space, and have teeth that are permanent, perfect, where it's going to happen. So, sure enough, you can look at the teeth. Now, beyond the teeth, there are signs and symptoms where the jaws being smaller affect the breathing. So while the teeth are one thing a parent could see right away oh, I don't have any space here to see I got smaller jaws another one would be just observation alone.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 20:44

Is your child child mouth breathing? Are the lips apart day or night, or both? Because the moment the jaws are a little too small, it makes it harder to breathe through the nose. So what we notice at a certain point the child will begin to have a little bit of mouth breathing and at the younger ages that one, two, three-year-old the parent starts picking up that, oh, while I'm watching my child, when they're just in the house playing, walking around, the lips are not together very much. Well, when the lips are apart, it's because we're allowing that safety valve to be open and breathe. Then, of course, if we pay attention at night a little bit and we realize that, checking in on the child, that oh my goodness, the lips are not together, now we're mouth breathing at night.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 21:21

Well, with the soft food comes the smaller jaws. The smaller jaws make it harder to breathe through the nose, so we become a mouth breather. The tiny problem is this is a vicious cycle. Mouth breathing also contributes to the jaws being smaller because the mouth breathing child is not using their tongue anymore. It stays low to let the air go by, so the tongue doesn't push out to grow the jaws.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 21:45

So the way I like to give the analogy to the parents is that the early soft food is like starting an inferno. You have this inferno raging with early soft food. Jaws are too small because of that, but down the road somewhere the child will start to mouth breathe and that's dumping more gasoline into the inferno that's already running. And so now the mouth breathing makes our jaw growth and development worse. We already have that problem, but now it's going to get worse with the mouth breathing. So we try to ask parents to observe their child day or night, both, if they can. Any amount of mouth breathing is unhealthy and over time they will notice it gets worse. So as you're tracking the child growing, you'll notice oh boy, we had a little bit of mouth breathing. Now, a year or two later, it's more. All of a sudden the pet will recognize my child is mouth breathing most of the time. So mouth breathing is something you could see. A few other things. I'll just rattle off a few and then if you want to talk about any of them, you let me know.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 22:38

Definitely, signs of smaller jaws affecting breathing would be your child can't sleep through the night. They wake up. They have breathing would be your child can't sleep through the night. They wake up. They have, uh, nightmares or night terrors. That has to do with poor breathing. They bed wet. Bed wet is a direct connection to poor breathing. Um, restless sleep they thrash around a lot. So restless sleep, thrashing around a lot. Night sweats if you're sweating at night and the pillow is soaked or the sheets are so then you have poor breathing going on. And poor breathing at night is because pillow is soaked or the sheets are soaked. Then you have poor breathing going on. And poor breathing at night is because the jaws are too small so we're not breathing well. So waking at night or having any of those symptoms where you're bedwetting nightmares, headaches, restless sleep, sweating in bed, ear infections is another sign, having ear infections, which tends to be a very common symptom today.

Jaclyn: 23:25

Oh, I had chronic ear infections when I was little. Chronic. My son has never had one, though.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 23:32

Oh, good news, Then we're happy about that. It's very good. We're happy about that, so happy he hasn't had them, so sure enough. Ear infections are directly related to jaw growth and development. Smaller jaws give you a better chance at having ear infections and it has to do with the muscles and how they're working.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 23:47

So that's a kind of a short list of symptoms, and the last one I'll throw in there, because I know we're going to talk more about behavior, is behavior. If you're having behavioral struggles, there's a direct connection to poor breathing, affecting the sleeping quality, and then we have the behavioral issues downstream and that's documented in the research very nicely. But when I say poor breathing while sleeping, poor breathing is underdeveloped jaws in my world, so smaller jaws give you your poor breathing. And then you know there are people who have, let's say, allergies and you know inflammation from other things, like an allergy to an outside source near your home or a food allergy that you're causing some inflammation and causing your breathing problem. There are secondary reasons for poor breathing, but the number one reason is going to be smaller jaws, and that's like a short list of things parents would be maybe struggling with on a daily basis that are directly connected to underdeveloped jaws and it's giving you these symptoms downstream jaws and it's giving you these symptoms downstream.

Jaclyn: 24:53

Today's episode of the Freak Show is supported by Ancestral Supplements. With Ancestral Supplements, you can now add back the dense nutrition the human body craves to optimally support a vibrant life and experience improvements in energy, immunity, strength, gut and digestion, endurance, memory, vitality, sleep and much, much more. One of the most dense sources of nutrition on the planet their beef liver supplements aid the liver in optimizing the body's metabolic functions, helps to detoxify the body and is integral to supporting a healthy immune system. If you don't know where to start with ancestral supplements because they do have a large library of supplements I would say start with the liver. I would also say they have a free consultation that you can take advantage of and I would highly recommend that you do. I have emailed with them multiple times and they have helped me tailor a supplement plan specific for my needs and health goals.

Jaclyn: 25:53

Ancestral Supplements ultra-high quality liver formula is loaded with vitamins, minerals, proteins and healthy fats that support collagen synthesis think skin, hair and connective tissues, immune health and heart, brain and liver health. Our early ancestors knew this, which is why their traditional diets included the frequent and nourishing consumption of this nutritional powerhouse. Just the liver supplement provides powerful energy, vibrant skin, fertility and fetal development, strong bones, brain power, robust immunity, strength and endurance, eye and vision, health, methylation and detoxification. It's amazing, right, so amazing. Ancestral Supplements has generously offered our freak community 10% off of your first purchase with code BECKON10. Again, that's code BECKON10, b-e-c-k-o-n 10 at ancestralsupplementscom for 10% off your first purchase. I know you are going to love this supplement company as much as Sam and I do.

Jaclyn: 27:02

I have my mom on the supplements. I occasionally open the capsules and sneak some of the nutrition into my son's food. It is just next level supplementation. All right, thank you, enjoy. And now back to the show. Everything comes back to sleep. It's such a foundational element of health and it's scary to think that so many children have underdeveloped jaws and then they're not able to sleep, which leads to behavioral problems which in many cases, I'm sure leads to pharmaceutical intervention, which it's not necessary if we can develop the jaw properly I'm thinking of my son and he sleeps through the night. He'll wake up once in a while, but what I have noticed is I don't hear him breathing. But he has like a lot of boogers.

Jaclyn: 28:08

So I'm wondering if that has any correlation too, or if that maybe is an allergy, because the only time I notice I can hear him breathing is when he's like whistle breathing through his nose.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 28:20

Like that movie with Jim Carrey.

Jaclyn: 28:21

Yeah, so is there any correlation there with jaw development, or is that more of an allergy sort of thing?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 28:30

Yeah, if mostly he's got his lips together and the air's going through the nose. What we tell parents is, yeah, if the mouth is open, that's like a telltale sign. Yeah, but then if you're looking for like really good breathing at night, it would be silent and invisible, okay. So when a child has their lips together and their nose breathing and it's going well, you don't hear it or see it. So that's a good breathing pattern. But once you can hear it, like you said, there's a little whistle maybe, or you have it.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 28:54

If you can start to hear the nose breathing, one of two things will happen. It's either a little congestion and maybe that day or week where, if you have a little bit of a seasonal allergy you could definitely see in the springtime where kids have a little more of a pollen issue Maybe they have a little of that kind of wheezing through the nose, but it'll go away and they'll get back to nose breathing. The other pathway is that if we have a little bit of a struggle breathing through our nose and it increases and it triggers the mouth to open, once you start mouth breathing it's hard to recover. So we want to avoid jumping into the mouth breathing. But if he's got the nose doing the breathing. What you could try is just some nasal hygiene and so a little bit of like blow my nose right before bed, let's try to get some stuff out. And three could be tough.

Jaclyn: 29:35

You know some kids don't do it, he hates it. We do it every night. We do it every night. But I notice that if I don't do that, I'll have to wake up at 2 am and get all of the boogers out, otherwise he just won't sleep well.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 29:50

Yes, so cleaning the nose before bed is a routine. It's part of what we teach parents. Is that, just like you brush your teeth twice a day, we're supposed to clean our nose twice a day, morning and night. Minimal. So in your case sounds like he's doing pretty well with minimal symptoms. So just doing nasal hygiene before bed is probably the answer there. And then, if you happen to identify an allergen that might trigger him to be grieving worse in some people it's a cat or a dog or a pet they might have Others it could be a row of birch trees in front of the house. You just never know where that little trigger might be.

Jaclyn: 30:23

I think it's the kids at school bringing all the germs.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 30:25

Kids at school sharing all the germs? Yeah, and certainly, yeah, certainly. That's the case where, again, the mouth breather has the bigger struggle with their immune system, and so mouth breathing children have more issues with allergies, infections, everything to your nose and throat and lung. The mouth breather has more because the mouth doesn't clean anything in the way the nose does.

Jaclyn: 30:47

So that's why we keep careful. I was just going to bring that up. Yeah, well, it's so interesting because we have nostril hair for a reason to be a filter, right but when we are breathing out of the mouth there's no filter, so people are getting sick more often. Is that correct?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 31:05

Absolutely. So I like to teach parents an analogy, because the wildest thing is that there are people in the medical community that say mouth breathing is not a problem, that's just fine, and they have no clue. So nose breathing is appropriate. Human beings are obligate nose breathers and mouth breathing is an opposite of nose breathing. It is not an acceptable form of breathing. Mouth breathing is wildly unhealthy. So the analogy I give parents is to teach them there's a difference.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 31:33

What the nose is doing is filtering, cleaning, warming, humidifying, adding ingredients. It's like 30 different things that the nose does to the air before it gets to the lung. And basically what the nose does, it prepares that air, it cleans it perfectly. It delivers it to the lung. Then the lung gets to do its job. So I call the air fuel. We're fueling ourselves by breathing well, we're fueling ourselves Just like we might drink or eat. We have to have fuel. Well, air number one. When we're breathing through our nose, you're putting the perfect fuel in the lungs. So I tell parents okay, look, if you have the highest performance race car and you're going to put it on a track, it has to have the proper fuel.

Jaclyn: 32:15

Oh, without a doubt, if you put the right fuel.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 32:17

Yeah, ferrari, lamborghini, whatever car, you love that car. If it's going to go on a track and race against others, you have a premium fuel going into it. Then go on a track and race against others. You have a premium fuel going into it. Then it can have peak performance as a chance to win the race. That peak fuel, that's nose breathing for a child. But now you take that same Ferrari, that same high performance race car, and you go to the gas station locally and put in the low grade fuel we put in our cars. It won't run that car very well. Now that car might go around the track but it will not have anywhere near performance and it will break down slowly. The wrong gasoline going in that car damages it.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 32:52

That's mouth breathing. Mouth breathing is poor fuel for that child. So nose breathing is appropriate and it sets in motion every other function, from the lungs to the cardiovascular system, the cognitive, your neurological, everything runs off of breathing properly. But mouth breathing throws every system downstream because you're delivering the cardiovascular system, the cognitive, your neurological, everything runs off of breathing properly. But mouth breathing throws every system downstream because you're delivering poor fuel into the lung and without the cleaning that's when the bacteria, the virus and the fungus, those three things don't get destroyed on the way in, which is why the mouth breathers have the higher incidence of ear, nose, throat and lung problems. They have all of those things at higher rates than nose breathers. It's just not being cleaned on the way in Crazy.

Jaclyn: 33:33

Well, there's just such an enormous ripple effect. So, for the moms and dads listening to this episode, if you are noticing some of these symptoms in your child episode, if you are noticing some of these symptoms in your child, what do we do to help them either combat that or prevent it from further developing?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 33:56

Exactly, yeah. So the parent who recognizes these symptoms, basically in our world, it adds up to that child, is ready to be treated. And in the category of growth and development, we need to grow the jaws to get our breathing back and get our sleeping back and heal. So I'll begin with in an office, because that's what kind of built, the remote model we're going to talk about. Next, in how to provide access to more people when you don't have someone like me around who does early treatment.

Jaclyn: 34:22

Well, yeah, and you are so rare. We're few and far between.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 34:26

We're few and far between People who practice early jaw growth and development is more of a rarity, so not everyone has access to this care. Well, in the office, when you come in, if you're between three and seven years old, we have a wonderful success rate using a combination of three things Nasal hygiene and that would be like techniques plus natural nasal sprays. Number two would be what we call guidance appliances. Guidance appliances are at a glance, it looks like a little football mouth guard that your kid would pop in.

Jaclyn: 34:56

Is this the tooth pillow? The tooth?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 34:58

pillow, the guidance, you got it. So we say guidance appliances, and tooth pillow is a company name. We're going to definitely get to that in a moment. But the guidance appliances that we would use are made for kids between three and 12, depending upon the age and the teeth they have. We can send you the one you need and we want to wear that an hour a day plus overnight. And what the guide does is it when it's in place it starts helping retrain the nasal breathing. So now you've got some nasal hygiene going on, we're going to start clearing our nose with some natural sprays. We're going to wear our guide, which is a trainer for breathing, but also when the guide is in.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 35:30

The guides are built and designed so that when it's in the child's mouth the tongue has to rest against the roof of the mouth and swallow correctly. And if we get the tongue resting and functioning properly, it promotes jaw growth and development. So we're basically recruiting our tongue back to doing its job of growing the jaws. But then when the guide is in, it pushes away the lips and cheeks. There's a little flange that kind of gets between your lips and cheeks in there. Pushing them out takes them away from the swallowing pattern. We're not supposed to be using our lips and cheeks to swallow with, but when we do start to mouth breathe, we actually have to then compensate and use our lips and cheeks to swallow. So then, when the lips are working and the cheeks are working, while you're swallowing they're squeezing you in.

Jaclyn: 36:11

That changes the whole structure and makeup of your face.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 36:16

Exactly so now you have the wrong muscles. We got the tongue is staying low because you're drinking your food and you don't have part chewing going on and your tongue has to stay low to let the air in. So we're taking away the inside part. It's not pushing out. But then because the tongue is low, it can't make a good swallow by itself. It needs its buddies to help him. So the lips and cheeks get involved. But when your tongue is weak and low and your lips and cheeks are active and stronger to helping you swallow basically now your face doesn't grow out strengths, you compress, which is why the teeth get more crowded over time. You're actually shrinking this in and you see teeth getting more crowded over time because your muscles are working poorly. So the guide flips the script on the musculature. It gives you back your tongue strong and high and it takes away the lips and cheeks. That's how you flip the growth of the jaws. So the guides that are built into Toothpillow help that child. And the third item nasal hygiene guides.

Jaclyn: 37:04

You know what you just lost sound.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 37:14

Oh, what happened? Am I still there? I'm so sorry, the sound just completely cut off. I can count from one to 10, if you need me to keep talking till it works. Abcd 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Are we still in or no sound from me? How's that going? No, do we still? I can hear you.

Jaclyn: 37:28

I can't hear you, that is so bizarre.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 37:30

Oh my goodness, I hear you just fine.

Jaclyn: 37:34

That's okay.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 37:35

That's okay. Yeah, I didn't touch anything on my end. I try not to touch anything, so there we go.

Jaclyn: 37:44

I've been having some issues with my headphones, so I don't know if if that was part of it, I'll hear you perfectly now that's okay.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 37:51

Yeah, easy, easy. So yeah, we were just talking about what, how we would help a child, and so, from three to seven years old, there's nasal hygiene, guidance appliances and the third item is going to be myofunctional therapy, and visiting a myofunctional therapist is wonderful if you have one local to you. Myofunctional therapy is helping correct all of the muscles of the head and neck to basically rest and function appropriately, for better jaw growth and development, for better breathing, for healing. So those are three things we were doing in our office for a long time, but then fast forward a while, a few of us got together and we're like, look, there's so few of us. There are people all over that need help. The kids need help. What are we going to do about access? There's not enough of us doing this treatment. That's how Toothpillow was kind of born. So Toothpillow is a new company, but we're using techniques that have been in dentistry for decades. Even though I'm 20 years in guides and my functional therapy have been around for decades before me. They just weren't, let's say, the traditional or popular way to do it. So this exists for a long time. It's not new techniques. It is, you know, basically techniques that have been around a long time.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 38:54

But what we did with Toothpillow? We built a website, we built an app and we built a way to measure with little cards and scaling with. You know, everybody's smartphone is so impressive today we can actually know from the photographs which guides to send the kid at what age. So basically we built a model called Toothpillow where we can treat a child remotely. They don't have to travel three hours or three states away to find someone like me. They can submit their child by going to toothpillow. com. So toothpillow. com has a little tab is my child a candidate? Now the website has a lot of information for parents to review, which is good. But then, of course, is my child a candidate?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 39:33

What the parent does is they first fill out a sleep breathing questionnaire. So we have like 25 different items we list. It basically is the list of symptoms that they might notice or have a history of. So we want to learn all about that. So they tell us all about their child. Then, of course, they get to upload photos and because of the app, the photos have like a little template that shows, like what view we're looking for. Yeah, so like a smile and then a profile. You know, the teeth open wide, take a picture of your top teeth, your bottom teeth, like we can just show them in a template. So they send me these. Now I screen almost all of them.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 40:08

So basically, these submissions come in, I look through the symptom list, I look through the photos. I've got the age of the child. That I know. Yeah, you know, we can help that child remotely. So from three to seven.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 40:17

What we can do is then connect to a support team member through the app that helps the parent on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. But we also have doctors representing every state. So we have over 70 doctors now basically trained in these methods and while there are a few of us, we have enough to cover the country. So we have everybody in every state with a license now to monitor the treatment. So there is a doctor behind the scenes monitoring that child's treatment and the app puts everything the parent uploads in there. We get updated photos weekly, monthly, quarterly. The photos come in, the new questionnaire gets filled out. We track compliance, because everything I'm saying you know is all compliance. Nasal hygiene are you doing it? Are you wearing your guide an hour a day plus bedtime? Are you doing the myofunctional therapy exercises? So it is compliance heavy. You have to participate and do the work in order to get the results. Of course, you've got to do the work Anything. It's like going to the gym.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 41:12

I tell the kids who come in the office I say this is like going to the gym Just because you send your money in the automatic payment to the gym doesn't transform your body. You have to show up and do the work. So paying for tooth pillow doesn't get you the result. You have to do the work. So it's very important work because we're helping a child grow to breathe down to sleep better. So it's very important work. It's worth the effort.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 41:34

It'll affect them for the rest of their lives Exactly and it's easy to fix when you're young. It is hard to fix when you're old. So we built this model so that any parent anywhere could find us, submit their child. I could screen them and approve them for tooth pillow. The sad part is I can't approve every child. So from three to seven we run about 99% of three to seven year olds we can work with remotely because the younger the better. It's eight to twelve, to be very honest. Eight to twelve, twenty-five percent of the kids have to be denied and that's a lot and it's a little bit heartbreaking, but seventy-five percent of teens eight to twelve can have tooth pillow remotely. The twenty-five percent I'm talking about. They're either too severe in the symptom list already or their mouth is so crowded because by eight years old a lot of permanent teeth oh yeah, they have such severe crowding already. I know the guides in the myofunctional therapy are not enough to get them all the way there. Wow, what they really need. They really need expanders first.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 42:33

So, the 25% that I have to deny is because of the symptom list and the crowding is so severe they're too small to catch up in the remaining years. I got to get them somewhere that does fixed expanders beautifully. Now that's what we do. Next is, if I have to make a denial, our support team takes a look at hey, where's that patient located? And who do we know? Because I have trained over 500 offices around the country and we have this locator list of people who know how to help that child at eight, nine or 10 and do a beautiful expansion technique. And if you can do a beautiful expansion technique, you can regain the size of the jaws, get them caught up you can Wow Anywhere between eight and 12,.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 43:14

we can recover this fully. We just have to have a really nice expansion technique. So we try to guide the parent to an office. That's the.

Jaclyn: 43:23

You guys go above and beyond.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 43:25

We're trying to help these kids out because we know what it means when you turn 12 and 13. It's very difficult. I mean I can fix a child after 13. It doesn't mean it's hopeless, but it's much more difficult and time consuming and expensive and the bone is more mature. So you have to alter your techniques and it takes a long time. And what I mean, of course, is in the non-surgical category, because the older you get, the more likely you need surgery to fix these things. We're trying to avoid that altogether. So our goal is yeah, our goal is to have awareness. Parents can know. You know what, if I don't have someone local that does this? And we're happy that your child gets early treatment, if you find someone locally, that does these things go right?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 44:05

to their office. It's totally fine. We just need your child treated early, because later doesn't help them. So if you don't have someone local that offers this, you visit toothpillow. com, submit your child, we will screen them and, based on the percentages most likely we can treat them remotely and give you this opportunity. And if we can't, then we're going to look for someone near you who knows how to treat your child to help them get caught up and get them on the right track, because larger jaws, better breathing, better sleeping and your child can heal.

Jaclyn: 44:27

Better life.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 44:29

Oh, yeah Truly.

Jaclyn: 44:31

I mean again going back to the nervous system and being in that fight or flight response. You do not want to be in that long term, my gosh. No, it affects every area of your life. So, for we've obviously been talking primarily about children, but for adults that struggle with these things, what are some of the solutions that they have available to them?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 44:54

Yes, so adults do have solutions. It is a little bit harder and, like we were saying how there's so few practices out there treating children early, it is the same for adults. There's very few offices that do growth and development, non-surgical intervention for adults, but there is a way to find someone, and so if you are an adult looking for attention, you should still contact toothpillow. com, reach out, because we may know someone in your area we can refer you to, and so there are locators that exist where we can help you to find. Is there a provider near you that treats adults? Because we know where these offices are and we have location places we can definitely try to help you out.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 45:35

One of the things that just popped in my head I should say it because I don't want to leave anything out for the parents we were going through that list of symptoms that parents would look for. The one I missed was grinding the teeth. So it popped in my head when you said you know what happens when you're an adult with these problems, because automatically it always like triggers in me the things parents are told that oh, don't worry, your child will outgrow it or it's normal. None of it's normal, none of the symptoms that parents bring up at their pediatrician or medical community. None of the symptoms are normal and they won't outgrow it. They do not outgrow these problems.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 46:07

The underdeveloped jaws does not sell correct and if you are grinding your teeth as a child, you're going to grind your teeth as an adult. If you have these sleeping and breathing issues, having fight or flight or having sympathetic drive, when your nervous system is basically dysregulated as a child, it will be dysregulated as a teen and as an adult the poor breathing continues with you. The breathing does not improve over time. So grinding teeth is another very common symptom. Parents know oh my God, my child is grinding their teeth out of their head because they hear it down the hall or they know when they go on vacation. That's a very strong sign of poor breathing. We grind our teeth because we're not breathing well. That's a direct relationship.

Jaclyn: 46:45

I didn't realize that grinding teeth had to do with breathing.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 46:50

Oh yeah. So I have another really good analogy to help parents on this one. It begins with the restless sleep. So restless sleep is body movement because we're moving. Restless sleep is tossing and turning. So we use these words restless sleep, but it doesn't really make a connection. But tossing and turning, restless sleep, it's your head, your body, your arms moving. The analogy I like to tell parents is the garden hose. You take the garden hose out and you spray. No water comes out. Why? You look back, there's a kink in the hose. So what do we do? Most self-respecting adults are not going to walk back to that kink and unravel it. They're going to take the hose at the end and shake it. You're going to shake it and twirl it. I can get it. I can get the cake to pop, yeah. So that's restless sleep.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 47:31

Restless sleep is your brain trying to unkink your airway. So when you're not breathing well, when you're not breathing well, your brain moves you around. It's basically just trying to find a better position for the air to flow in and out better. It's trying to unkink your airway or unkink your hose. So the head moves, the legs, the arms, the movement is geared towards finding. Is there a better place we could put you, where your air will go in and out. So body movement restless sleep is directly related to poor breathing and your brain trying to fix it.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 48:02

Unkink your airway hose. Now that's the whole body's moving, but we get to the grinding of the teeth next. That's the lower jaw moving. So when we grind our teeth, it's our gnashing the teeth, the lower jaw is the movable one. So when the lower jaw is moving around, right inside the lower jaw is the tongue. So the lower jaw movement shifts the tongue around. When your lower jaw is grinding your teeth, we say grinding your teeth but it's really your brain is moving your lower jaw around because it helps the air get in and out, better so you can get more air Wow.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 48:32

Grinding your teeth is unkinking your airway hose. It's a way to get the air to go in and out better. So the crazy thing is, well, your brain will sacrifice your teeth to make sure air is going in and out better. That's a protective mechanism, that's a kind of like. That is so incredible. Children grinding your teeth? It is not normal. You will not outgrow it, it's a cry for help. I can't breathe. Well is what that is Same with the other symptoms you know that you were talking about. But all of this adds up to really poor breathing due to the underdeveloped jaws and we just have this early soft diet in place where almost every kid has it. I know it's always bad for, like in an interview or speaking, to say all or none, or always you know the interviewers.

Jaclyn: 49:14

But that's the norm.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 49:16

That's the norm now it is, it's the normal today and I got to tell you I'm looking at kids for 20 years. I don't meet healthy children anymore because we're looking at all these symptoms. I don't meet healthy kids anymore. It's so rare to find a child that is healthy, no symptoms, and their jaws are growing well. It's a unicorn today. So I don't like to say the word all and every and none, because it's extreme words, sure, and they turn some people off. But I got to tell you 20 years of this and I see unhealthy kids and one way to look at it is you know, what child do you know has grown into all their teeth on their own, with no help, but also turned 20 and their wisdom teeth are in. They have all 32.

Jaclyn: 49:52

It's so.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 49:53

it is so rare Very rare to find so rare and ideally we keep our wisdom teeth right, we should, we want to, we're supposed to have those. It shouldn't be a rite of passage at 12 to get braces for four years and then have your wisdom teeth taken out at 18 or 20. Those are now rites of passage. You do it because everybody does it Meanwhile. Braces for the teeth at 12, that's treating the symptoms. You're treating the symptoms. No wonder why it's unsuccessful, because you're playing with the symptoms and of course, the moment the kid doesn't wear the retainer it's going to shift back. You haven't treated the cause, you treated the symptom. Then, of course, they're 18 or 20.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 50:29

And the last teeth to the party. There's no room anymore, the house is full. So the wisdom teeth go. And then I think it was your brother's case, did you mention? They took out teeth Like some of the 12 year olds. They say oh wow, there's really no room and you know, let's pluck out some other teeth on you. So they have four teeth taken out when they're 12. Then they have another four when they're 18 for the wisdom. They only have 24 teeth in their head. But the less teeth you have, the less room you have to breathe. So we want all 32. We want all 32. We want the. Have those jaws growing so well that your child can nasal breathe day and night, silently and invisibly. Nasal breathing is really what we're looking for as an end result. Then, almost incidentally, downstream your teeth and your bite will go where they belong. You'll either never see braces or you'll get them for a few months, and today you can even have aligners for a few months, like those ones you can make for kids too.

Jaclyn: 51:22

Yeah, yeah, so yeah, it's just so fascinating. And it all goes back to sleep and diet, which I feel like pretty much everything does, and the standard American diet, which the acronym is SAD, is just. It is not what we are meant to be eating. So do you recommend the Weston A Price diet as well?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 51:43

Oh yeah, I'm a big fan of that. And Price Pottinger is the foundation. Price Pottinger it was. Dr Pottinger was the MD who did research. So Dr Weston Price was the dentist who did, and Dr Pottinger. His book is called Pottinger's Cats. Some people are familiar with this. I haven't heard of it, oh. So it's a fascinating read, so you'll like this one too. It's in line with Weston Price's work. Weston Price traveled the world, looked at the cultures and watched them. This Dr Pottinger was doing adrenal research. I think it was adrenal research where cats were the model, where they were doing the testing.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 52:22

And I know that's wrong, but it's a long time ago. But what happened was? The short story is he had a lot of cats and they were feeding them but budgetary concerns issues, he was running out of food. Now he wanted his cats. His premise was well, to have the adrenal research be clean. I'm going to feed these cats like the best food available.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 52:43

He's given these cats like filet mignon and warm pasteurized milk, like processed food. He's given them a processed American meal, right, and by accident he says, oh geez, I got to get food. He goes to the local butcher in a panic and he says can I have the scraps? At the end of the day, what do you do with those? So we throw them out. Whatever lands on the floor we throw out. So he goes I need that to keep my cats alive, to get my research done, blah, blah.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 53:11

So he separates his cats out. He starts feeding the one group, the raw, raw milk, because he couldn't afford it. He couldn't afford the real stuff. Well, what he noticed? He switched his research. He was no longer doing adrenal, he was doing nutritional research. He goes that group of cats was healthier, so they were healthier. The other cats were getting all kinds of inflammatory, autoimmune, all kinds of skin diseases, Because he was feeding them human food. And so you know how we loosely say like don't give human food to the dog or the cat, right, don't give your food to the why? Because it's bad for them.

Jaclyn: 53:54

And if it's bad for them, then it's bad for us.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 53:55

It just makes logical sense, right? Yeah, you know what it is. It's compressed because their lifespan is so short. Yeah, because the animal's life is so short. That's what makes the difference. Okay, humans, 70 years, 80 years, your food's bad. You can suffer with all these chronic illnesses along the way the cat or dog you lose in a few years with table food and bad food. So the compression of it makes it more real versus you know what I'm thinking about.

Jaclyn: 54:18

So anyway, Dr.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 54:18

Pottinger it. You know what I'm thinking about. So anyway, Dr Pottinger, it's the Price Pottinger Foundation and Pottinger was doing this research. He switched to nutritional research to show, yeah, the raw, natural diet is healthy and the processed diet is wrong.

Jaclyn: 54:32

And so I forgot how I got on that tangent, but Pottinger's Cats is a fascinating research. Yeah, that sounds so fascinating and I'm thinking about my dogs. I started giving my dogs like a natural food diet, probably 10 years ago, before it was in vogue. But it's primarily mush. It's fruits, vegetables, meat, that is all soft and so I had a dog that lived to 17,.

Jaclyn: 54:55

So it definitely helped with longevity because the nutrition was better, it was real foods. Longevity because the nutrition was better, it was real foods. However, I'm thinking about animals too, and they need that ability to strengthen their jaw as well.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 55:09

Yeah, and I think they have the instinct to chew on stuff, like a dog is going to look for a bone or a branch and chew on toys and stuff. So there are other things that work in those muscles and a cat too will chew on stuff. So there's a way they make that up, but an infant has no way to make that up. But yeah, again, the answer to your question was yes, the nutrition matters, and it's not just the consistency, like this whole session has been about well, the early soft food meaning consistency, but the whole other half of this is the nutritional value of what we're eating, because we know the kids are eating, but you're not getting too much fries, oh, and it's so bad.

Jaclyn: 55:43

And we all-.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 55:45

It's wrong in nutritional value.

Jaclyn: 55:47

Yeah, and biologically, when we have to chew on something, our mouth releases enzymes that help digestion, and so it all is a symbiotic, like it all goes together. So I think, as we wrap up this podcast, one of my last questions for you is are you a fan of mouth taping? Because I feel like it's something that has become popular, but I'm interested to know a doctor's perspective.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 56:15

Sure. So I do like mouth taping. But there's a tiny bit of an answer coming here where I'm not a fan of taping someone who has small jaws, because then what you're doing is you're forcing bad nasal breathing, because if you have your mouth open to breathe through because your nose doesn't let the air go well, you are trapping someone to poor nose breathing. So I'm not a fan of it. To start, I mean it can't be step one. Grow the jaws first. We need first a little more room in our nose. That means growing the upper jaw, because when the upper jaw grows we get more room in through the nostrils and the nasal cavity. When we grow the lower jaw both upper and lower growing gives more room for the tongue. So now, when you have more room to breathe, I like the mouth tape as more of a later stage treatment to help retrain lip seal. Because when you become mouth breathing because you have to, it does become habitual. So just because we might grow your jaws and have the right space to breathe doesn't mean you automatically just nose breathe 24-7, 365. Some kids will, some adults will, but some need help training those lips again to get the nose doing the breathing. So I like the mouth breathing to be added in after we've got an increase in size to breathe. So I added a little later.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 57:31

And adding it a little later means not everyone needs it, because some of these kids, teens or adults, as we're treating them, when the parent tells me they are now breathing through their nose, we see during the day the lips are closed. We see at night lips go great. You don't need tape. But once we have the right space and that child's breathing better but the parent knows there's an improvement there's still a little mouth breathing going on day or night, not as much as it was.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 57:54

The symptoms have gone away, like we don't bed wet anymore, we're not getting nightmares, we're sleeping through the night, we're dreaming. All this stuff is happening. So you're like you know what? We should try a little bit of mouth tape now. Let's just retrain those lips to stay together and really get the nose fired up perfectly. So I like it a little later, for and I'm going to say it's my opinion too, because there are people who say, oh, just start with it on day one and put it on, and then they're welcome to their opinion. I'm just giving you the rationale behind why I like it as a later stage treatment, not a beginning stage. I'm not a fan of trapping someone into poor nose breathing because that's technically maybe not an improvement.

Jaclyn: 58:28

Yeah, or it could affect their sleep even worse.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 58:31

Right, but now you had mentioned you improved, which is good. So if you're using tape and you're improving, that's a good sign. No problems, you don't have to stop doing it. You should do it.

Jaclyn: 58:40

Well, I noticed that I did it very regularly for maybe four months and then when I got pregnant I had some issues with breathing. I think a lot of pregnant women experience some like sinus issues. So I stopped. But what I noticed was my mouth naturally wanted to be closed while I was sleeping. So I don't know if it wanted to be closed while I was sleeping, so I don't know if it reminded me, and then I just kind of got in the habit, yeah, but certainly I felt like it did help.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 59:10

Yeah, are you using the tape? That's like a circle.

Jaclyn: 59:13

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 59:14

Yeah, it's like a circle, kind of a ring. You stretch it a little, you put it on it.

Jaclyn: 59:18

Yeah, yeah and it's got like a little slit in the middle. If you want to, you know, take a drink out of something in the middle of the night.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 59:24

Exactly it has an escape valve, just in case. Yeah, I would say one cautionary thing is to use a tape that has either a slit or is a circle by design so that the mouth is open, if it has to be, because, just in case something at night happened and the nose got clogged for some reason, you need to have air coming. Yeah, I would say, please don't use tape that just blocks across everything.

Jaclyn: 59:45

Yeah, that makes perfect sense, until you've learned more about it.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 59:48

Do a little research. Don't block up that mouth just in case something were to happen. We don't want an accident happening.

Jaclyn: 59:52

Yeah.

Jaclyn: 59:54

But still send the worst thing you see is so fascinating and to see the change from these strong, able jaws to weak jaws and overcrowded teeth and it can be solved through diet and some of these early interventions. I think it's so cool and I love what you're doing with Toothpillow. I think it's going to give so many parents hope for their children who are struggling. Also, all of the resources you have for adults. I just appreciate you, the work that you're doing so much and how much information you're putting out, because it's going to change lives for decades. I mean, this is such enormous information, life-changing information.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 1:00:39

Well, we really appreciate that. Thank you very much. Yeah, we're really trying to help. We're trying to help every kid. Well, we really appreciate that. Thank you very much. Yeah, we're really trying to help. We're trying to help every kid.

Jaclyn: 1:00:44

Well, two more questions for you. You already alluded to this, but where can everybody find you?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 1:00:50

Oh yes, wwwtoothpillowcom.

Jaclyn: 1:00:53

Okay, and what about on social media?

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 1:00:57

Oh, we have Instagram as well, so it might be at Toothpillow, but they're at Toothpillow and at Dr Ben Moralia, so you can find us in Instagram as well.

Jaclyn: 1:01:15

Perfect.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 1:01:17

And then, because you're on the Freak Show and we're all about frequency, what is one thing the listener could do today thing you could do is trust your gut instinct, because we talk to and meet a lot of parents and they know when they're told, oh, it's normal, you'll outgrow it, they're dismissed in every direction. Trust your instinct. A parent knows when their child is struggling, unhealthy and they know it's not normal. And I receive all these submissions and that is a recurring theme. I know there's something wrong. I believe it's the breathing, the sleeping. I go to the doctor. They say it's normal, they'll outgrow it. They tell me there's nothing to worry about. So trust your gut. The moms and dads know when their child is struggling. Just don't stop looking. You haven't found the right person to help you, but you're right, your child needs help. Your child does need help. You are right. Trust your gut and go after it and don't listen to the people who are telling you it's normal and they'll outgrow it. That is not going to happen. Your child needs help today.

Jaclyn: 1:02:11

This has been such an enlightening conversation. I know it's going to bless so many people. I feel like I have so much to digest and chew on, yeah, and I just appreciate your time so, so much and I look so forward to people getting their ears on this information. So thank you, Dr. Ben Miraglia, so much.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 1:02:32

It was my pleasure, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Jaclyn: 1:02:35

Absolutely!

Jaclyn: 1:02:39

Thank you so much for listening to The Freq Show with Sam Thurmond and me, Jaclyn Steele Thurmond. We would love to connect with you via our website, beckonliving. com, and on social media.

Dr. Ben Miraglia: 1:02:49

You can find us on Instagram and TikTok @beckonliving and you can join our email list to receive uplifting messages, podcasts and business updates, and discounts on high-frequency products, just for our freqy community.

Jaclyn: 1:03:00

Cheers to high-frequency living!