#31 | Megan of Wilson Family Homestead's Birth Story: Unattended Home Birth in the Kitchen

We love a good birth story, and especially one that can’t help but inspire you to give a little or a whole lot more trust to the birth process! Megan, a blogger, homesteader, and lover of all things DIY, founder of the Wilson Family Homestead, joins us today to share the unassisted home birth story of her second child. After three weeks of prodromal labor, Megan figured it was just another night of false labor as she tucked herself into bed...Less than two hours later, she was standing naked on her rustic kitchen floor with her son, Dimi, in her arms, her husband by her side, and her midwife en route.

Later on in the episode, Megan discusses her experience with postpartum depression after her first birth.

Video: Megan's Unassisted Birth in Her Kitchen
Megan Wilson's YouTube Page: Wilson Homestead
Wilson Family Homestead Instagram Page

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Transcript

I'm Cynthia Overgard, owner of HypnoBirthing of Connecticut, childbirth advocate and postpartum support specialist. And I'm Trisha Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant. And this is the Down To Birth Podcast. Childbirth is something we're made to do. But how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture? Let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

We love a good birth story and especially one that can't help but inspire you to give a little are a whole lot more trust to the birth process. Megan is a blogger, a homesteader and a lover of all things die of the Wilson family homestead. She joins us today to share her unintentionally unassisted home birth of her second child. After three weeks of prodromal labor, Megan figured it was just another night of false contractions as she talked herself into bed. Less than two hours later, she was naked on a rustic kitchen floor with her son and her arms and her husband by her side.

Hi, my name is Megan Wilson. I am a mom of two I have an 18 month old daughter named Sophia and a three month old son named Demetrius and me and my husband, Luke have been married for a little over three years now. We live in Montana. So we do all kinds of hiking and camping and snowboarding in the winter and it's a lot of fun here and we live on a little homestead with rabbits and a big garden and have a lot of stuff going on. We're actually remodeling our hundred year old farmhouse two so we're very, very busy. So my daughter I was planning a home birth with her. And it's funny because before I got pregnant with her, I was totally planning on having my first hospital and my sister in law has had several home births and an unassisted birth and she talked me into having a home birth. So I switched. Once I got pregnant to plan the home birth, I contacted the family midwife who had birth, some of my my husband's siblings and all of my sister in law's home birth kids. So it's just kind of cool that she's like, the family midwife. And I went into labor three days after my due date, I think and it was a really, really long labor. It was 24 hours, and I had what's it called a cervical lip, I think. And so the midwife would have to like, pull my cervix out of the way with every contraction so that the baby you come out and so I had like a two hour long transition and the three hours of pushing and I ended up tearing in several places. And it was it was a really hard birth and afterwards I was like, I'm not doing that again. It took me. I was she was probably about two months old by the time I decided I wanted to go through labor again. But when you had that thought, I'm not doing that again. Did you mean I'm not having another baby or not having another baby at home or not?

Having another baby, like I'm not gonna go through labor again.

Yeah, but then she was so cute. And I was like, Oh, I want another. You really do forget. And first labors are just really difficult. And it's just very much different for my second one, because after he was born, like the next minute, I was like, I want to do that again. Like I can't wait to go through labor again. Wow. Oh, yeah. So tell us about it. Yeah. So well, we decided to get an ultrasound around 20 weeks to find out the gender. And during the ultrasound, they found out my placenta was low lying and she said that If it didn't go back up, I think it has to be within like, three centimeters or something to your cervix for you to be able to have a home birth. It was just kind of like a worry a little bit, but it ended up being perfectly fine. And then I had a lot of prodromal labor with him to start at like 37 weeks, I had prodromal labor, like, every single night, I thought I was going to go into labor. And it was getting really, really exhausting. That can be very tiring.

Yes, we were like real contractions. And I would have to like stop and breathe through them. And then I would go to sleep and some time during the night they would stop and I was just like, I am never going to have this baby. It was driving me crazy. It's always tricky for practitioners to know, you know, is this labor actually progressing into true labor? Or is it going to stop and go away because obviously sometimes second babies can come really quickly. So you can't ignore it. But you it. Yeah, it can be very tiring, especially if it's happening at night. So how long did it go on for for you before labor actually kicked in three weeks? Wow. Yeah, it was, it was very tiring. And it was, it was a good lesson for me and patience. Because by the end, I had just completely surrendered to whatever my body was going to do. And just, I had to come to a full trust in that the baby was just going to come out when when he was ready. So it was good for me, but very frustrating. Did it did it was to go away for periods of time, or were you really experiencing it kind of chronically David, he would go away for most of the night, it would start up sometime in the morning, go all day, and then especially in the evening, it would start getting worse. And I would always be like, I wonder if I'm going into labor. And then I would go to bed and an hour or two into sleeping, it would go away again. So yeah, it was pretty constant. It was very annoying. And there were several times that I had like these really, really intense Like period cramps and one time like I couldn't even walk because there was a period cramp in my hip so bad. It was just like, I thought for sure I was going to labor then. So I was like, a little bit like, I'm not sure what I'll know, when I go into labor because it keeps like changing and like Surely this is. Yeah, so three weeks of that, and then it was actually on his due date. But that night, I went to bed as normal. I was having my prodromal labor contractions and so I just didn't think anything of it. And I woke up at 12 o'clock, and they hadn't gone away. Normally they would have gone away by then. And they were just keeping going and they were getting a little bit more intense. So we'll be back up. And I just went out and I stood by the fireplace and I went to the bathroom and I got myself a snack to try to just see if they would go away from movement and just try to feel if they felt Different again. And they just kept getting more and more intense so that by 1230, only half an hour later, I woke up my husband because I needed help during the contractions. And he was like, are you sure this is the real thing? Because I want to go back to sleep.

And I was like, I'm pretty sure and you say the poor dear. Yeah. thing like your, your labor?

Yeah. Um, let's see.

That was a long time for him to I guess to be uncertain and wondering what's going on. Right.

I know. Yeah. It's so funny. Yeah, I just had so much prodromal labor that -- The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Yes, exactly, exactly. So you got up at around 1230 and I texted my midwife and she asked me to time the contractions. And I ended up timing five of them. I personally only time to time too and then I had to have my husband time the other three because they were getting so intense. So quickly, they were just like the thought of thinking about like pressing the button on my phone to start the timer was like way too, too hard. And they were about 60 seconds long and 60 seconds apart at that point, and I had only been in labor for like half an hour. And I texted her and she was like, I am getting out of my pajamas. And I am on the way right now, but she lives an hour away. So I kind of figured that she wouldn't make it. And so many times during this pregnancy, I had been like, you know, I bet I'll have a really fast labor, and my midwife won't even make it. And I was just like, kind of hoping I was like, I really just don't want her to be there. Like I love my midwife. It's not because I don't love my midwife. There's just like, I wanted to do it by myself. Interesting. But yeah, they were just getting like, super intense, like really fast. I was sitting on the birth spot first and I would pull onto my husband like leaned back as far as I could. And I was just trying to get the pressure off of my pelvis area, and ended up being more comfortable to stand. And it was interesting that my body just kind of knew, like, what to do without me thinking about it. Like I didn't even my brain didn't even know that it was happening so fast. But like, I just found myself over in the kitchen on a spot on the floor that it wouldn't really matter if it got all messy. And I just like would do all these things without my brain even realizing it because my body was just like, doing its thing.

Your instincts were kicking in and taking over.

They were it was really strange how that happened. Yeah. But yeah, I was standing over in the kitchen, like, right right here next to where I'm sitting right now. And I was leaning over our baby gate holding on to it really tight and my husband was trying to run around and do things in those little breaks. Because we had a list of things that we needed to do once I went into labor and like cover the windows and Just for privacy, get our birth box, make sure that people knew I was in labor. And none of it happened because there was like such a short window in between my contractions that he would like, race around like a maniac. And then as soon as I would go into a contraction, I would like, gasp for him to come over. And so I was like, don't worry about the list, it's fine. If it doesn't get done. It's not the other world. So he didn't get anything down the list, which was fine. They were just like getting so intense. It felt like a freight train was like moving through my body is like the only way can explain it really. And, like, during the contraction, it would feel like, there's no way I can like do another one of these and then afterwards, I'd be like, okay, that's just one. One less contraction I have to do later and I would just like keep telling myself that's fun. That's contraction I have to do, just like working through one contraction at a time. So my husband kept putting clary sage essential oil on my back and my wrists. And it was just really sweet because he knew I wanted to do all these things. I had like a list of things that I wanted to do during labor like use the birth ball. And it was like so fast that like nothing except for that one thing got done. It was only because he remembered to like, he knew I wanted it. So he just brought it over and did it. He also set up our camera, which I didn't even know until afterwards, which I was also really glad because that was really good footage of the birth. But yeah, it was my daughter was also sleeping upstairs. And this was one thing I was really worried about before I went into labor was that I would be really loud. Because I was with my daughter like I was so loud. I'm sure I woke up all of our neighbors and I had such a sore throat the next day from yelling so much. And when when I had her it was like dive and voluntary like this happened to just came out of me. So I was like, how am I going to be quiet and She's upstairs and if I yell for that long, it's gonna wake her up and I don't want her down here and so, but I was like quiet as a mouse through The entire labor so I was like super grateful that I just felt home like it was really intense. But it wasn't scaring me. I just felt so present in it, which is exactly what I wanted. That was like my goal. And I thought about it so much when I was pregnant, just that I wanted this birth to be so much different than hers. I wanted to like feel the contractions more, which sounds weird, but just like with the experience, did you feel in your first experience that you were less present? Because you were more scared of the process?

Yeah, it was kind of, I was scared of the process. Like I didn't know, what would it be like and it just freaked me out. And then also, by the time I was in the pushing stage, especially I was so tired that I would fall asleep in contrast in between contractions, and I was just like, gone. Like I was just so tired. And I really didn't want that for this one. Which it was so fast that I was not nearly as tired but yeah labor, I'd woken up my husband at 1230. And then by 130, I felt like I needed to poop. And my body was just bearing down by itself. That fetal ejection reflex, I think, and without me even doing anything, they just felt like I was pushing. But I still had this like, weird, irrational fear that the midwife would get there and check me he told me I was like, two centimeters dilated. Like I kept thinking this. But then once I started feeling like I needed to push, I checked myself and I could feel his head, like an inch away from the opening. So I was like, Okay, I'm pretty sure I'm 10 centimeters dilated, so I could probably push with the contraction.

Yeah, your cervix was definitely gone by that point.

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So then once I knew I was like, dilated, I pushed and it was only I only pushed with the contractions twice. I pushed and his head came out and Oh, and before, before that, right before that, I had I have been standing leaning over holding on to her baby gauge. And every time I'd have a contraction, my husband would like, hold up my whole upper body, like all my weight, because I needed to be standing but I also needed to relax my torso, I feel so bad for him because I'm sure he was tired for doing that for like an hour straight. But then as soon as I felt like I needed to push, I went down into a squat. And then I pushed with a contraction, and I felt his I felt the ring of fire and I kind of like, lunge forward to get away from it. Which was weird. I didn't expect that's a common phenomenon that women kind of try to take off or disappear right when the baby's gonna come. They're like I'm out of here and you're thinking okay, go ahead, but you're taking the whole maybe an experience with you. For you to go Yeah, it's a it's a response. Many women have like, Nope, not happening.

Yeah, I'm out here. So funny. Yeah, yeah, I kind of smacked into our baby aid that was right in front of me a little bit and Luke was like What is going on? Cuz he had no idea that it was going fast. He's like, Why are you running into the cage? Like, no. But his head came out and I reached out I felt it and like as it came out, it was like so small like it just felt so tiny and then like, right after it came out it like expanded a little bit, which was freaky. I, I didn't feel that was my daughter's when you feel the baby's head coming through the vagina opening it first it can feel because you're just getting sort of posterior part of the head. It can feel small, but as it comes through and reaches its widest part. Yeah, that's when you get that ring of fire. And then when it comes all the way through, then you realize how much bigger it actually is. So I think you were feeling like,

I didn't think it actually could get bigger. Like.

I remember thinking that during the moment, I was like, This is so small. And then as it came, I was like, Oh my gosh, that's so huge. Like it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And it passes that widest part. And it's like oh, okay, yeah.

Yeah, so And then his head was just out after that first contraction until the next one and then I pushed again and his body came out. And he was just there and I turned him over and made sure that there was something blocking and that he could breathe and he started crying and it was just so crazy. And I was just like sitting there squatting in our kitchen, nice term, big bag of onions and it was just like so you know, real life. And I sent Luke to go get some towels and waterproof pads and put them on our couch so that I could go sit down. And I stood up and I remember being irritated that I couldn't like pull him up to my chest. And I was like looking at I was like trying to figure out what was wrong and his cord was up from his belly button over around the back of his neck. down his other shoulder. It wasn't around the front of his neck, but it was just like in my just freshly given birth brain. I couldn't figure out right away how to fix it. But I got the cord over his head and then I ran across our rug. So I didn't drink too bad to get to the couch or Luke had put towels out. And it was just like a minute or two later, a midwife walked in the door and he was crying. And she was like, oh, it sounds like there's a baby. And yeah, it was just perfect. And I instantly was like, I can't wait to get pregnant again. Because that was so fun.

Oh my gosh, Really? Wow.

So did that labor last? It was two hours from beginning to end.

From the minute I woke up, and I had those first little contractions that I weren't sure where they were normal labor. Not until he was born. It was two hours, even though prodromal labor isn't actually labor, that doesn't mean that it's not doing work to get your dough ready. And so probably when you start in this labor, you were already significantly dilated. And that's and that's why it went so fast. So all that three weeks of work was helping you it was it was worth it. I would I would say for sure that I would much rather go through three weeks of just a little bit annoying contractions then a really long labor like my daughters but sometimes some women will actually say that these very precipitous labor's that that you had are actually they prefer them less to a more reasonable length labor because they are so intense and that feeling of being like, like you said like a freight train is running through your body can be so incredibly overwhelming for people but I have definitely had mothers who say I would never want to do it like that again.

It's it's less intense and more exhausting when it's longer.

Yes, it just happens so quickly. You just yeah, you just set a trade off either way or so in the moment.

Yeah, what was birthing the placenta like the placenta wasn't born for like an hour or so. My I kept getting these really bad after pains and the midwife was like that your centers ready to come out and so she would have me push and I just couldn't get any traction on the placenta because it was like Like the baby so big in your uterus that you can like get big traction around it to push the baby out. But then the percentage just like, I don't know, like I just had a hard time with it and I worked out for a while and then I would get really bad cramps and I'd have to like take a break and she ended up having to help me traction a little bit and it came right out. There was no issues with it. It was just like, hard for me to figure out how to push it properly, I guess. And I had like, wanted to. I know for some reason, I was like all fascinated with placenta birth during my pregnancy. And I was like I was I really want to birth placenta by myself like I don't want because was Sofia's she had attraction as well. It was being stubborn. So I got back up and sat down and she just helped traction and it came right out and it didn't hurt but I was really happy to just have out because then I could like it was good to get it done. And I was just really happy when it's over. And she got we got this sent out and then I love that she like shows all the different parts of the placenta and like explains it. Everything shows where the baby was inside. And it's like so cool to see. We left him Attash for like, an hour or two, which I was so excited about, because I didn't do that with Sophia and I wished afterwards that I had. And then she was also looking at the cord and it was stained brown and she said he probably had meconium in the waters, but I was so bad that he hadn't breathed any evidence was like not an issue that there was a claim in the waters but that was just interesting that she could tell from the cord. Yeah, so she, we left the cord attached all that and then once we cut it loose, cut it and she wrapped it up and put it in our refrigerator because I take my placenta, I cut it up into what we steam it to kill all the bacteria and then I cut it off and freeze it and I take it as little pills capsulation Yeah, yeah, not an actual, like capsules. They're just like, chunks.

You and you had an eat the chunk. How do you take it out? You make sure that they're really tiny and then you freeze them so that they're hard and you don't have to taste them as they go down. But you also have to make sure they're really small because the sharp little edges don't feel good. And it really seemed like it helped with just my milk supply came in so much faster and my hormones were not as crazy with my daughter. I had like the worst baby blues. I almost thought it was like working on postpartum depression, but with him, I was like, I had zero issues with that. But yeah, we moved over to the bed after we got all the meconium cleaned up, which took a long time. It's like really sticky. I got him latched on and he nursed on both sides twice within the first hour of him being born. He just was so good at nursing and she she stitched me up while I was laying on the bed. I had to squeeze my husband's hand really tight because I hated it so much. Yeah, and with let's see, it was about by five o'clock in the morning. She had cleaned up the entire house. She got all of the towels and laundry in the washer. And she just left us alone to take a little nap before my daughter woke up. And yeah, it was. It was just really nice. And then we had breakfast a little bit later. But yeah, it was just really nice. And then my, my daughter woke up around seven, she got to meet him and it was really cute. She was like, staring at him for a long time and then to spin up and gave him a kiss on his head, which is so cute because like we never suggested it and she wasn't really into giving kisses then it was just really sweet.

You got the unassisted home birth that you thought you wanted.

Yeah, it was like exactly how fun it was. It couldn't have made it any better. I wouldn't really change anything about it. And I just fully trusted that my body could do what it needed to it was kind of like just learning the whole pregnancy which is kind of learning this that I could trust my body to deal with. It needed to and especially after having such a hard versus my daughter, I was like, when I got pregnant with him, I was like really scared of going through that again. And I just did so much research on, like different things to do. Something went wrong. I listened to so many positive birth stories. And then by the end, I was just like, I want to have by myself because I know I can do this. And it was just, yeah, it was a good, good lesson for me and trusting myself.

You think the research guide you to the place of trust? Or was it something else that what what is it that got you there?

I think the research definitely helped, like just immersing myself in positive birth stories. I mean, it was a big part of that. And then also just, I mean, just the little things like I didn't have any vaginal checks during my pregnancy, or anything like that, like I just know that it's gonna be fine. 

You're building trust in your body and yourself throughout the whole pregnancy. And then then, when labor comes on the way it did and is so intense, and so fast, it's like, you have no choice but to be forced into the present moment. And there's no time or space for worry. It's like you really just settle right into that, like, I have got to write surrender to this and trust this and just let it let my body and my baby do their thing. And, and the prodromal labor was also really good practice for me too, because every time I thought I would go into labor, I'd have a contraction that was really intense. With the prodromal labor I would just like think bring it on and just like be put myself in this really positive frame of mind and just for I was hoping that labor would start. And then once labor really did start I had like practice so much. Like just being really positive about it that it was just like exciting thing even though it hurt. It was it was I don't know, it was enjoyable in a way. Yeah.

Was your husband worried at any point or was he totally supportive all the way through?

No, he was totally good. He Well, he didn't even realize it was happening so fast. Like, when, when Jimmy's head came out, and Luke kind of looked down and he like, did a double look. He's like, What is going on? But yeah, he was super good. I mean, home birth is a lot more common in his family than most people. I think. So he just really trusts that I know what I'm doing. So it was just really nice that he was staying calm, too.

So you prefer to having an unassisted home birth? Yes. Would you ever intentionally plan it that way? If you were going to have another baby, would you would you go that step further to say I am going to have an emphasis or or would you still an unassisted home birth or would you still say, well, we need to have a midwife so it's not an option.

Yeah, I think that next time we'll plan it to be unassisted.

And what does that mean? Does that mean not having a midwife mean, what does that really mean?

Well, um, what I like ideally, what I would love to happen have happen is that I still see my midwife for some prenatal appointments, and then have her come after the baby's born just to make sure that everything's good. And that would be what I would really want to do because then I just have that little bit of backup, but she's coming afterwards she's like, done all my care up until then, so she can help us if something like needs to happen. But then you know, just not not color when I go into labor.

Yeah, can't wait to do it again.

Yes, I can't wait. I'm I really want to get pregnant right now. But I know I've been having like issues with my pelvis and bladder and stuff from having back to back pregnancies and then not doing very many exercises during so I really need to Wait, make sure before I get pregnant again, it's like my own babies giving me baby fever. I like look at me like, Oh my gosh, I need to make another one can become addictive though, that, you know, I need to get addicted to that oxytocin.

I know, I'm gonna have a hard time stopping when we're gonna have like, 15 kids.

So would you mind giving us a couple of minutes to your borderline postpartum depression with your daughter Sophia. So that is the definition really is like anything exceeding about two weeks of feeling like What's up, I feel not myself I feel down or I feel whatever angry, resentful, stressed, overwhelmed. Those are all the emotions underlying postpartum depression, or anxiety and when it lasts over two weeks, we do say that like you're pretty much in that field, even if it only manifests as anxiety. So are you How long did you feel that lasted and what were the emotions you were feeling? What do you have to say about what you've learned from the experience? Okay, yeah. Well if that's I guess if that's the definition I probably did have postpartum depression and because it it was pretty constant for like three or four weeks it was pretty close to a month that it was like, I just felt really sad a lot for like no reason I would just cry and I'd be like, why am I crying? Like I have this baby? Everything's great. Like, my life's perfect like, why am I so upset?

Let me guess then you felt guilty for your thoughts?

I'll see. Yes.

Yeah, and just like really anxious like with her, I was so stressed out, like unbelievably stressed, like, I wouldn't take one car. I would go anywhere I would, because I first had this weird thing where I thought I couldn't take care of her unless I was at home. Which is ridiculous. Because as long as I have my breasts with me and a couple diapers, then I'm good to go. But and then that's expected to be rational. Right? Yeah. You know, we didn't have to be so hard on ourselves about it like but it's ridiculous. Because it it's like it's we can't explain away any of these emotions.

You can look back on it now and say it's ridiculous. But in that moment, it feels a moment. It feels perfectly normal. This is it's very real, very real. Yeah.

Yeah. So as she got older, me feeling anxious was not as constant It was more like off and on. And she when she was around three months old, she got thrush and that kind of threw me back into postpartum depression again, I was just like, I would just sit in the bathroom and cry. I felt like I was dying like, and it was just this intense, like, anxious, stressed feeling that I can't really explain, which is so awful. And then just as she got older, and I saw that, like, each time something would come up like she would start teething or something would happen. She had a dairy allergy for a while and, but as I started seeing that each thing would be resolved like everything was just we just come in phases. I started not freaking out as bad each time something would happen. And then ever since he's been born, like, I think my postpartum depression lasted up until he was born. But then as soon as he was born, I was like, super confident. I took them camping the other week, which I would never even have considered before he was born. But just like, knowing I got everything I need to take care of them. I'm wondering if it's partly because I was so confident during his birth and now I'm like, I got this I can do whatever I want. But it took me a long time to get past just the the anxiety after I had my daughter. But and then yeah, just thinking back like, as he's three months right now when she was three months, I just have such a different feeling about it. And I I was struggling for a little while with that. I wish I had. Like, I almost feel like I I'm trying to say.

Like, I was so stressed when she was a baby that I didn't give her the same, like, love and just confidence that I'm giving him, which makes me feel a little bad. But then also like, I know that I couldn't, couldn't help it, you know.

So that's a very common way that women feel. And it's like if they have postpartum depression or anxiety for the first baby and don't for the second, then they start to feel bad. Like we have an episode of a postpartum roundtable I think it was episode three. And one of the moms is saying it like, Did I miss her like she had a daughter and then a son like you? She's saying, did I miss this the first time around? Did I miss the joy and the connection and the love and that's a really normal way to feel. That's, that is the sign of a mother who's very loving and attentive and sensitive. So if you're feeling that way, the bottom line is you are a loving, sensitive, attentive mother and that's what your children have. But the key thing about this is that from the baby's perspective their whole world is whether someone is responding to their cries and their needs. And if you can say that you did then your children had an equivalent experience it didn't matter if you are breastfeeding her and crying if you are changing her diaper and feeling stressed, she was being touched and loved and cared for. So it's really okay to give yourself permission to just say well I'm I'm only second guessing this and feeling guilty about this because I'm a loving connected mom in the first place and that's like period Yeah, let Yeah, right. Like how lucky both of my children are that they have me that's it we don't that's it. That's all we that's it.

Right yeah, that's a great way to think about that. That That does make me feel better that Yeah, cuz they're their care is quite similar in just like the basic, you know, everything but just that my feeling about them was just Different from child to child, I guess, at their age, they probably wouldn't even, like realize that not only do they not realize that they had a complete experience from you, but from our perspective, one step away hearing your story, what we feel is just compassion for you that first time around, we're not the least bit worried about, oh, gosh, her daughter didn't have as much as none of that there. Because she had everything but it's like, Oh, poor Megan, like that was hard for her the first time and we're so happy. It was easier the second time. That's the story. It's really about your experience. The first time versus the second. Yeah, they're they're great. They're fine. And they've always been fine. It's not always the case for all babies. Some others suffer so badly. The babies are at risk of not being cared for. But that wasn't your that isn't your story. Yeah, it's that you were suffering but your daughter Sophia wasn't? No matter how guilty you feel and responsible you feel.

Yeah, thank you. That is very true.

If there were one thing that you could share with other women advice that you might want to give them about their own upcoming birth experience or how to make a decision on on where they should have their baby, what might you say to them?

Yeah, I would probably say that trusting your body and yourself is, like so important and just trusting your instincts and that you'll know the best thing to do for I mean, everything like where you're gonna have your baby and you choose as your provider and that your body can like birth this baby without anyone else there and even going into motherhood that you birth this baby and you can take care of them. And just, I mean, having trust in yourself is like such a big deal. It just gives you such confidence in every area. And that's just been so important to me. The second time around, making everything just so enjoyable, like my labor was enjoyable, and I feel like it was because I trusted myself so much.

If you enjoy our podcast please take a moment to leave us a review on Apple podcasts and share a favorite episode or two. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @downtobirthshow or contact us and review show notes at downtobirthshow.com. Please remember this information is made available to you for educational and informational purposes only. It is in no way a substitute for medical advice. For our full disclaimer visit downtobirthshow.com/disclaimer. Thanks for tuning in, and  as always, hear everyone and listen to yourself.

I only wish they could see you tell the story because oh, there's never a smile off your face. You know, the whole thing with a smile on your face. Yeah.

Super cool about her story is she has a video of this birth so we can link to the video of the birth and people Oh, it's it's out there. It's on YouTube. So it'll be really, really fun. For people to see.





Cynthia Overgard <cynthia@hypnobirthingct.com> | 11:28 AM (10 minutes ago) |  | 






to me



Every time somebody looked at me and go, are you sure you want to do that? Oh my gosh, I couldn't like what if, what if what if you start to go Okay, what if, what if what if but every time that would happen? I would say no, my gut my instinct everything is saying, do it at home and so I stuck with it.

I'm Cynthia Overgard, owner of hypno birthing of Connecticut childbirth advocate and postpartum Support Specialist.

And I'm Tricia Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant.

And this is the down to birth podcast.

childbirth is something we're made to do, but how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture?

Let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

Close Racing. wolinski is a professional dancer and social media influencer who developed determination and grit in an industry that tells pretty much anyone over 30 that they're just too old for dance. Refusing to buy into those limitations, her career and social media following skyrocketed in her 30s. So when she and her husband were expecting their first baby at age 37, and her doctor told her at her pregnancy confirmation that she's just too old to have children clothed took the bold step of completely ghosting her doctor after that. It was then the clothes instinct rose to the surface. And for her, that meant there was only one place to birth her son, and that place was home. And while her birth was far from easy, she said she wouldn't have dreamed of doing it anyplace else.

Hi, everyone. My name is Claude racing. wolinski and my story starts with me never ever, ever thinking about having kids or wanting them until I met my Amazing husband, Noah. And all of a sudden the idea of kids seem to be fun and wow, I can do this with this person. So after our honeymoon, we basically said okay, if it happens, it happens. And it took a year before baby Nova was conceived and at which time I really had no idea about pregnancy birth, what do you do? Where do you go? So I just kind of chose to go to my gynecologist and get a confirmation on my pregnancy. And I went and she basically scared the living poop out of me. By telling me I was too old to have kids and that I because I was so old. I was at risk for all these things with my baby down syndrome. How old are we talking? cloade at the time, I was 30 Seven I am now 38. So apparently anytime above any age above 35, you are in a geriatric pregnancy. You just love that term here. All right, yeah, it's hilarious. You know, I still feel like I'm 19. So. So when she started saying that stuff, I of course got really scared. She left me a voicemail and said, Hey, Claude, you need to call me like yesterday, you should have had all these tests done by now. You're at high risk for Down syndrome and this and this and this and completely just robbed me of the joy that I had that I actually found out and confirmed that I was pregnant. So after that experience, I called my mom and she calmed me down. And then this my friend of mine popped into my head Victoria and she had told me that she had two home births. I said, You know what, let me just look into that. I know nothing about it. It sounds like that's what we're just supposed to do. As as women like we give birth, like Our bodies are made to do it, why do we need all this extra fuss? So I met with Victoria and she referred me to her midwives who I met with and after my first meeting with them, it was a no brainer that that was the route I was going to go. What was it about that first meeting that made you feel like that was the route you're gonna go? they just, they supported, like, what everything they said, like, you know, this is how it's supposed to be done, like women can talk we're made to tolerate this experience. Also, there's a whole business side to it that I didn't know and to the metal, like the hospital route, where, you know, a certain amount of money is made per c section because I spoke to a lot of my friends who there's the same exact story. They were in labor for 17 hours. After 17 hours, the doctor said we're going into a C section. So they push push, push, push on son Things are going all wrong. And we do a C section. And I thought that just doesn't seem right because I know people who've had home births, who were in labor for a very long time, and gave birth vaginally. So um, it just resonated with me. And indicated to me that that was the route I wanted to go, the less interference with the natural way of the way it's supposed to go, the better. And I'm like that about pain or things in general, I never go to the doctor. I just know my body is going to heal itself. And that's just by choice. Like, obviously, if I needed a doctor emergency, I will go but normally, anything that has to do with the body, I just know, hey, if I caused it I can unconscious or something like that. So that's exactly how I how I fell in the midwives just reinforced my thought about how that experience was supposed to go.

So rewinding a bit to your obstetrician, did you officially break up with her?

Hi ghostess Thank you. What I

did the same with my doctor and it's so interesting to hear that because at my 16 week they were like we're worried your baby's measuring too large we need to start seeing you every two weeks and I literally after seeing her for years for my annual I literally never went back and no one ever called me and I think you know how worried were they? They literally never ever saw me again. For real you you never got to fall. I've never got a call.

Not like a Mr. appointment.

Nothing I never booked the 18th week I left there and says just such a state of anxiety that I walked out and I ended up changing my plan but I always look back like you know what you saw me three Sharpies you acted so happy to see me once a year for that five minute checkup. And you were worried about my baby You know, no one ever called and same thing happened to you and good for you for ghosting her because you have every right to end that relationship without an explanation. Women don't have to explain themselves to anybody. This isn't a personal relationship or trust. And you owe each other some kind of communication that you they were there to serve you. They weren't serving you Yeah, left. That's your that's your way. I love when people I love when women don't explain it.

Yeah, I never even thought for a second.

I don't ever explain myself about anything. And that was one of the things with with the baby was like, you're going to get all kinds of advice and blah, blah blah and I don't have any problem being like, I don't need it. Thank you so much. Because every time you say I'm gonna have a home birth 95 not every time but 95% of the time. Yeah, people are like, Oh, you're doing what? Oh my god, but what if, what if, what if well, what is risky right now, but I get it, like people are sort of uneducated in that area, or it is so popular or socially accepted to do it one way. You know, it's all fear based to me. So if I'm making a decision out of fear, I know it's not the right one.

That's that's a very good point. And that's really what people's mind goes to first with home birth, this will let us think of the worst possible things that can happen. And it's not rational because those things are extremely rare. And for we know, there's so many good studies out there to demonstrate that home birth is safe under the right circumstances for the right woman with the right, you know, a trained provider.

And what this conversation never seems to include is, what about the risks of unnecessary medical intervention in a hospital and that's always left out of this discussion. So yes, home birth has risks that have to be managed, but we always seem to leave out that other half we just take for granted that a hospital birth will necessarily be safe. And that is not necessarily safe, particularly in the US, where unnecessary medical intervention is identified as a major contributor to the trend we're seeing right now and in this industry with mortality, so Okay, but you did this all based on your friend inspired You and that doctor knew the red flag, your intuition said, run. And then you had that final validation of a good appointment with a home birth midwife. Yeah. So what did you What did she say about your age? Because I'm sure you had some kind of question or anxiety around it after what the doctor said. So you must have raised it with the home birth midwife, and what did she have to say about it?

I mean, I, I didn't get scared about what she said, or have increased anxiety. I was like, I've been told my whole, you know, my whole career engine getting too old to dance and how do you see you're 37? When are you gonna have kids and get married and blah, blah, blah. You know, so I knew that what she was saying was the gynecologist is just what she knew and what she was afraid of. And I just, I didn't I didn't even bring it up to the midwives. I mean, I told them that that's what she said. And I was like, I don't believe her. And I'm not going to be around somebody that is afraid of my pregnancy because of my age. They're like, you know, my grandma had twins at 4060 years ago.

So I see We're okay,

that that was that.

That's so cool. So what happened next?

So I kept going to my appointments with the midwives and

I had a wonderful pregnancy like I really loved being pregnant, and everything went smooth. I didn't get sick. I you know, I stayed a little bit active. And then then it came. I mean, I was kind of like, a free birth. I'm not gonna lie. Um, what were you afraid of?

You know, the pain.

Yes. overwhelming feeling.

Yeah. And you don't know how long it's gonna last you you don't know anything. So you're going into it like Well, hopefully it's short and quick. And it was. But um, yeah, you know, my water broke on Saturday morning at 830 and I delivered Nova Sunday morning at 7:37am And when the contractions started happening, like the really hard ones, I was like, Oh my god, how long do I have to do this for? And the first time the midwives came over to check me, I was only two centimeters and they left is like 10:30pm. And they left and I was like, why are you even? Horrible? Like that's,

that's a hard that's a hard pill to swallow when that happens when he been in labor that long and your midwives arrive and you think, Okay, it's time and they're here to have a baby. And then same thing happened to me. And it was like, I didn't end up giving birth for another 12 hours after that, and it's already been 24. But it was like I thought I had been I thought that I had I thought it was going to be like eight centimeters. I had been working hard for a long time. And then I hear well, your cervix is just beginning to open like it wasn't even one centimeter.

My go home says a lot because it's like yeah, I've got a long night ahead. You but we don't get anywhere close to much progress and we're going to go home and

literally sleep through the night. My mid my midwife left. Yeah,

it's tough. Yeah, you want somebody that at least knows, okay, what's going on and my mom was here and my husband was here he held my hand for like, I think 20 hours without stopping, but you just kind of want someone who is in tune aware of. Okay, well, now it's time now. It's not I don't know. So they, they left and literally two hours later, Noah called them again. They're like, hey, let me hear her. So they listened to me for a couple of minutes. And then Shawnee was like, okay, we're on our way. So they came back check me again and I was only four centimeters. So my water broke at 8:30am Saturday morning. And then at 10:30pm is when they came over the first time and then at like 12:30am they came back and checked me again. I was only four centimeters. And also my cervix was swollen because apparently I was standing With my arms over Noah, and I, something made me feel like pushing. But I guess you're not supposed to push until your cervix is fully dilated. But I was like,

very well, you might have been like, quote unquote, fully dilated, but the swelling could make it go back down to like seven or eight. And sometimes in a long labor, swelling of the cervix can happen. So you could have been all the way there the tissue in the uterus could have lifted all of the cervical tissue out of the way. But because it lasted so long, you were swell and back down a few centimeters.

Yeah, that sounds like that probably happened. And they wouldn't let me stand up. I wanted to sit on the toilet so bad and suffer through these contractions. They're like, No, you need to lay down. So they let me lay down in the bathtub for about

Tricia, does that resolve the swelling? I know an epidural. Yes. And but in a home birth do they say lie down? Because it can be through the pressure of the head on the surface can add to the swelling?

Yeah, Jason. I didn't know that. It also

has to do with the position of the baby. The reason the cervix get swelling is because of position and so you need to change position, the hope in that changing position is that the head, the baby's head position will change and then the cervix can the swelling can dissipate in the survey thing open.

And I think that that's what that's what happened. And like about an hour later, I was in the bathtub, I was like, these are getting too much like Something's got to give, y'all have to let me push. Which I then regretted them and I started pushing, I was like, This is worse than the contraction. Oh my god, you know, they were teaching me how to properly push and mind you it's like 3:30am by now. 5:30am and my midwives were asleep on the bed and when it was time for me to push that I would have a contraction. When they were telling me to push I would have to like push. Then breathe. You know? 123456789 No, no, breathe. And then push for 10 seconds breathe push for. So they wanted me to do that three times per contraction. I think I might have accomplished that like two or three times it would be very difficult we

members and we teach a very different type of breathing through the pushing stage and that one that your midwives described sounds very difficult to me. So just have if you ever decide to have another baby, there are other ways you can do this. A lot of

work. Okay, nevermind. And it's not just because of the birth but I was very kind of not stubborn, but because of my idea that like, okay, women know how to do this. Um, I didn't want to read too much. Because what I found is that a lot of the things I read, were scaring me. I was like, You know what, I just want to have my own experience. My midwives are there to coach me. Boom. And Shaunie was actually she was amazing at coaching me like if she didn't count, I was like, Oh my god, where are you? I knew the counts. But in between contractions they would like close their eyes and go back to sleep. And then I would do and then go get another one is coming in, everybody would wake up. And I mean, after like an hour, I got discouraged. It doesn't feel like the baby's coming down like there's movement happening. And finally, Shelley, the other midwives, there's two of them. She was like, give me your hand and she put my hand on the top of novas head, and I felt him and I was like, okay, he is right there. So I didn't even wait for contractions after that point. I was just pushing him out. And you know, once the head is making its way out, that's a whole other situation. But I was wondering like, what else then she stuck like this really cold pad on my vagina and I was like, when does the pain stop? Ever? What else are you doing to me?

Were you where you're after you're after Nova was Were you worried about giving birth to the placenta? Or was that not on your mind?

Um, I had heard that it's it takes like more contractions and again I I had read that it's very difficult for some women and I was like not it's just gonna come out and it did she did have to push like on my stomach and you know, but it actually felt kind of nice and warm and gooey on the way out. I was like, okay, that's

Thank God. It is very soft, soft and slippery. Wait, so how long was the pushing phase?

two hour, two hours.

And what what position were you in most of the time? Do you remember they

wanted me on my back on my bed and my husband had my right leg. He was pulling it here. My other leg.

Why on your back. So wait a minute, sometimes there there's really one. So the supine position is like you were flat on your back with your head back on the mattress, your whole spine on the mattress and your legs in The air. And then there's the other way women sometimes say they were on their back, but they're actually reclined where they're propped up a little bit. So if you would think about your tailbone to your head, what angle was that? Was that really flat on the mattress? Or was that angled

upward? They had to hold my head. Okay, so we're holding you angled outward. So that's

like a sort of more of a semi reclining position. So maybe like,

like more, I'm getting the sense that you were describing, almost like a crunched over like, yeah, hold back or automatic.

I wouldn't say my whole spine, but like, I had to round so I'm laying flat and then I had to pull my head

up and round. So maybe maybe they were concerned about the cervix to be in the baby fitting through the pelvis. It sounds like they were putting you in position to help get the baby under the pubic bone or maybe, maybe the anterior part of your cervix was swollen and that was part

of why they I do remember that was a thing like trying to get him to Go under the table out of the

purely bone.

Yeah, yes. I was actually very shocked that it went like that because I I was expecting to be in a full squat or like on the toilet with the gravity but they did not want me in that position as hard as it was. I'm so happy that I had the freedom to do it in my home with my mom, my husband, my midwives, my team. And, you know, I got to call the shots I guess nobody was making me do anything or making me scared that something was happening. I knew that with this team. We were gonna just get it done. In a weird sense, I was relaxed because of that. And I knew that I'd get to just hold Nova nobody would take him away from me afterwards and do what it is that they do.

What happened right after Nova was born. Do you remember him coming out and and him being placed up on your chest or how did it go?

My husband and I pulled him out together like we we We're holding him. And then he was placed on my chest. So he was crying. And he liked, like I breastfed right away, too. I think. I don't know how long it was, before I did that. I was like, Oh my gosh, it's crazy that we just know how to do that right away, like what a beautiful,

you don't have to make breastfeeding happen. We have to allow breastfeeding to happen. Totally total. And there are always things that can get in the way of birth and breastfeeding. But we we always want to come from that place of trust, of just allowing the process to happen and trusting that we have those experts there to help us if we really are in that minority of cases that really requires support or support.

Yeah, and that's the thing too, it's, you know, I always used to joke with my husband and be like, Listen, elephants and things like that they have babies out there and nobody's telling them, how to push what position to be in. The thing they don't have is the reactive mind that we have of like, being irrational and reacting to fear and this and that. They just Trust that this is the process and I don't even know if they trust it, they just do it.

One of the things that gets in the way of birth is the intellect, the thinking mind. It's Yes, if part of having a natural birth experience requires you to drop out of the thinking mind and into just the intuitive space, like trusting your inner intelligence. And, I mean, we have only been thinking about birth and managing birth for 100 years. And we love that we've been around for how many hundreds of hundreds of hundreds of thousands of years and so you can't really you know, we wouldn't be here if it didn't work. Exactly.

You know, I often equate it to like, if you're going about your day, and suddenly your stomach feels really bad from something you ate, you don't freak out. You just make your way over to the bathroom and even if you feel awful if you eat your food, but what do we do, we sit, we breathe, we hang out. We try Trust we exactly. But labor begins and we freak out because society has conditioned us that way. But the mammals when labor begins for them, they don't even know they're pregnant. They don't even know they have a uterus or that they're about to become mothers, but they feel something. And their instinct takes over and they putting their breath. They go somewhere where they feel alone and safe. They deepen their breath and they relax immensely. Yes, it's so you're right thinking mind is the premise of HypnoBirthing. So it's my comfort area. How do we use it to facilitate the birth rather than be an obstacle to

we have to go back to the primal brain? It's the primal. Yes.

And we can overthink sex before we ever have sex. Like if you're a teenager, and you're already thinking about sex, and you're like, Oh, my God, I don't know how to do it. How do people do it? I mean, what happens? What if I don't know what I'm doing? It's like try to stop any mammal from figuring out how to have sex. Yeah,

not everyone. Just

thought if we think about it, we're gonna doubt ourselves. And with childbirth is just that fear and the word pain is such a terrifying word we don't need Yes, we don't really like to use that word because it's so intimidating. We don't associate pain with anything natural. We only associate pain with problem or injury or a pathology. So when you put pain with childbirth, now you suddenly put it in the category of

problem. Yeah, you interpret every experience and your

brain says, oh, if it's painful, it's dangerous.

Or what I'm feeling right is pain rather than intensity rather than pressure rather than crankiness. It's like, I am interpreting this as

a lesson. She's like, no, it's pain. I love it. But

anyway, go on.

This is the relief of a lifetime when it's over. Right? It's like it's advanced. Really? Yes.

And that's what my mom kept saying. She's like, it's the best feeling when when he's gonna come out. And so I was like, okay, am I still waiting?

Let me do it. is the biggest relief in the world oh my

god I guess relief it's just like

and that's the thing is like pain or you know the way that obviously I have been conditioned to think about it because it's all perspective totally it usually when you feel something painful the the reaction is to stop it or get away from it you know the the pain is to tell you what you're in trouble fix it. So to you have to completely redo your mind and go in this moment. It is not that same signal. It's pushed into the pressure pushed into that pain.

I don't want you

to keep pushing into that pressure. Everything in your mom in my mind was like

something I gotta stop this. Yeah, you want to read you want to resist it? Because yes, it's so overwhelming, but wrong, is exactly the opposite of what you want to do.

Yeah. I mean, I Afterwards, I felt like a superhero. I felt like I had, I felt like a superhero like there was nothing I couldn't do Ever After that,

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I think the obvious for many women listening

if it was so difficult physically and it went on so long you were really challenged in your birth in various ways. And then on top of it you were told to be on your back which is a notoriously uncomfortable position to birth in. How come you're saying you would not dream of having birth any other way? How come you're insisting this was the right place to give birth and giving birth naturally was the only way for you?

I feel like I think I would rather go through that again. Then experience the fear and the the rushing and the press just the whole medical Yeah, of doing it at a hospital.

And do you think home birth

should be for anybody I would say that every woman is capable of giving birth at home. Absolutely it You do have to have your In the in the game though, like, I think if you're starting from a place of fear, and you have these doubts and things like that, I don't know that it'll go well for you. Your mind is very our minds are powerful. So if you're already coming from a place of, Oh, no, that's going to go wrong. Well, you're probably going to manifest that.

Well, here's the here's the thing too, about home birth, when you are giving birth at home and you've made that choice and you don't have pain relief at your disposal. You just you just Carry on, carry on because it's not there. I think there are many women. First of all, I agree with you. I think every single woman who is you know, low risk and safe candidate for home birth can give birth at home. I think every woman has the ability to get through childbirth without needing something if that's their choice, but I think many women who give birth naturally at home if they were giving birth in a different environment in the hospital, and they were being offered pain, medication pain relief every hour. Yes, it's much more easy to just say yes. And to under percentage think that you need it or to think that you're doing something wrong, you're entering something you shouldn't have to if you don't use medicine, so when you give birth at home, it's sort of like it's out of the equation. You rely, right? You have to rely on what's available at home, which is water, therapeutic touch, movement, change of positions, you know, all of that, and you make food, whatever it is, and you make it work.

Yeah. And that's what I've told some friends to is at the hospital, they're gonna give you the option, and then I would have regretted it later. You're, you know what I mean? And I just knew that being at home. I wouldn't have any of those interferences or distractions. I was just going to have to get through it. You know, I've ran a marathon before you Don't just stop at mile 17 and go,

yeah, you know what? No. But if somebody was somebody at mile 10 was being like, do you want to just take a 10 minute break and sit down? You look really tired? Why don't you just rest for a little bit? You'd be like, Sure, that's probably what you probably would know, when you're home, you're like, Okay, no, not an option. So let's just try the shower one more time, or let's go to the tub now, or you go back and forth between the two or whatever it takes. Mm hmm.

So basically, you're saying that it was still the right place for you despite a really long arduous birth because it was in alignment with your values.

Exactly. That's the perfect way to put it. I would have been sacrificing my beliefs and what I know I am capable of doing. Had I chosen any other way or should I choose to choose a different way next time. It's just I'd be disappointed in myself right and just needing to surround myself. with people that trusted the same way that I trusted, like, of course, you know, every time somebody looked at me and go, are you sure you want to do that? Oh my gosh, I couldn't like what if what if what if you start to go Okay, what if what if what if but every time that would happen, I would say no, my gut my instinct everything is saying, do it at home and so I stuck with it.

Giving birth is such a good analogy for how we live life. Because if you can surrender to your own intuition, and just see yourself and trust the process and trust that that deep inner feeling readings, then you know, like you know where to go, you know which direction

to take helps you in parenting because you need so much of that in parenting.

Absolutely. Oh my gosh, I was just gonna say for me, that part of the postpartum part was like, for me, way more difficult than The actual physicality of birth, you know, the mental aspect of everything that kind of happens. And learning to trust my instinct as a as a mother and all this like, Oh, it was it was wild a wild journey.

So yeah, so what have you learned so far, about postpartum because no one seems to be prepared for the realities of that. And society does a crummy job at making us think it's really a golden Maggie. Yeah. And we have maybe fleeting moments of that. But what what surprised you about the postpartum day I sit there and I go, what was I expecting it to be in life? What was I expecting having a newborn to be like,

I don't know I because I was like, Oh, he's gonna sleep in the bed with us. And then you know, when he needs to eat, I'm gonna feed him and then put him right back down.

And then all of a sudden, it's like, there's so many things that nobody tells you and part of me goes maybe there's a reason why we're like protected from that because then maybe not. Because I'm a research freak, you know, but in this sense like nothing told me to go look, what is it like having a baby and I really have never been around babies. I always loved kids, but I've never really been around like, newborns babies. So it was a shock to my system in every sense of the word. The biggest thing for me because I'm a freelancer, I dance I choreograph, I do everything with my husband. I was like, wait, I can't go anywhere. Like, I have to be here for this little human. And I really felt that isolation. The the being alone and sort of like, reminiscing on my old life a lot like I would, I would obsess over what my life was and what it was now and how I wasn't prepared. It was really like it felt really awful. Like you really awful.

The freedom being gone in that period. Mm hmm. You're still in it. You're still in it. So you don't see yet how you will come out of it. Yeah, I do feel better. But

yeah, at 13 weeks, like, I would be like, what did I just do? Was this the right decision? What was I thinking having a baby was like, Oh no, I don't really actually like it. I can't give Nova back. So you're kind of stuck in this like

this trapped feeling.

Yeah, feels very permanent,

very permanent. And I would look at my mom, I'm like, this is like, every day forever. I can't just go You know what, on Saturday, I'm going to need to sleep until 11. So I'm going to take a break. You know, of course you don't sleep. And I, I would have this anxiety, had no idea where it was coming from. It wasn't really centered on anything. It was just an anxious feeling that would kind of rumble inside of me throughout the day. And at 13 weeks like something happened where I woke up and I felt relaxed for the first time I felt accepting of my life with Nova and everything like that.

So the interesting thing about what you just said, you said to your mom, this is like, yeah, forever. And it's funny because it that's part of what causes that feeling of despondency or the beginning of postpartum depression. It is so not forever, but it's inconceivable that you will ever be waving at NOVA as he's getting on a school bus. Or even that he'll be hopping in the back of the car putting on his own seat belt. Yeah, sitting in a booster seat. It's like you feel like that's, you feel like you are now the mom of a baby. And you're always going to be the mom of a baby and it's in Yeah, well that you're going to be the mom of like a preteen. And that's what keeps surprising us as parents, they change so rapidly and you realize there's a point where like, you have changing right when you get used to having your child at their certain age they are off and in a new stage. Yes, and That's part of the relief that you keep getting though because it none of it is permanent. It's the whole law of the universe. It's just right constant rapid change, and our childhoods felt so long. But there's, they fly by and you don't see it in the first few years. Yeah, yeah, he's gonna be an adult with you guys for decades. Right? And it's not like you are with your mom. Yes. But it's so hard to believe it's so

hard to believe them, then you're gonna

have to let go of life the way you once knew it.

I wish somebody would have just at least

given given me a little warning of what the possibility is of how you will feel. And it's very important to have, you know, a support system. Don't. Don't hold it in. don't deal with it on your own. Don't feel ashamed. Don't feel scared. Like really use your partner. Use your family to express how you feel because holding it in Dealing with it on your own. There's nothing wrong with you. It's totally normal, and it will pass. And that's what I would say. And I would tell all of them to reach out to me if they needed to, because I wish that I just had, like, nobody tells you. It's very bizarre.

It's definitely something that is just not talked about in society. I mean, think how carefully we tend to pregnant women, and we see them every month and then every week and towards the end of their pregnancy, and then as soon as the baby's born, it's like, bye, bye. We'll see you once. Once. Mmm hmm. And what might you say to a woman who is on the fence about where to give birth? She's sort of intrigued by the idea about home birth, but you know, planning a hospital birth. What would you tell her?

I would tell her I actually have a friend who is on the fence and I tell her every day that she's more than capable of having At home, it you you are capable of doing that you will get it done and nothing will interfere. No reactive, irrational people and things will interfere with your goal. And if that's what you desire, then go with a home birth because you have more control over the outcome. Yeah, and also something that we didn't touch on yet is the recovery process. You know, I was walking like three days later. And even though I ripped, you know, it just it just happens. Okay? And because there were no drugs because I wasn't affected by anything that's not natural, you know, my body recovered like that.

It also probably has a lot to do with how you cared for yourself prenatally and how you cared for yourself in labor and you stayed nourished and you ate and you hydrated and Absolutely it the whole holistic picture matters to you, our body recovers,

What would you say to any woman who's facing childbirth for the first time?

I would say, Listen to your gut, listen to your instinct. Listen to you. And try as much as you can not to allow outside factors to sway you one way or the other. You know what is best for you. If you just listen to what you want and trust you as the woman that you are, trust your capabilities. And if you can really just tune everything out and just listen to you, then that's the perfect choice.

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So my husband and I choreographed together and we choreographed a music video for the Nickelodeon, the Teen Choice Awards, which is supposed to be in August. So we were on set for eight hours for the rehearsal and then 12 hours the next day, you guys are amazing dancers by the way. Thank you.

Really. Thank you. Really fun to watch.