Matt Appleton: From Counselor to Family Camp, and Finding Strength Through Community

Noah talks to Matt Appleton about his camp journey, from first coming in 2006 and 2008 as a counselor, and attending family camp for the last four years with his wife Clare and their two children. Matt describes how camp culture, friendships, and work ethic shaped his resilience, empathy, and leadership skills, and how camp has evolved with expanded over time. Tune in to hear about Matt's life journey and how camp has shaped it along the way.

00:00 Welcome Matt

00:26 Counselor Years

01:43 Family Camp Return

04:19 How Camp Evolved

06:10 Finding Camp Abroad

07:38 Post Camp USA Trip

09:20 Australia Chapter

10:52 Friendship Ripple Effect

13:45 First Arrival Culture Shock

17:25 Pre Camp Work Week

19:22 Life Changing Reflections

22:30 Lessons Into Leadership

27:04 Counselor Chemistry

28:34 Work Ethic And Family

30:48 Back To Camp Magic

32:11 Cancer Diagnosis Story

35:29 Community Through Treatment

41:26 Clear Checkup Update

43:04 Celebrating Life Now

44:54 Advice For New Staff

45:57 Closing Thanks

Transcript

0:00

Matt, welcome on the podcast. You've known me since I was like seven years old and, oh, come on. No, I don't make me feel old. I'm gonna do it. And now we're, we're about 20 years later and, and we're sitting on Zoom talking and it's, it's pretty special. And, um, I'm excited to talk to you about your camp experience and, and how life has brought you back around to camp. And I wanna just start off, take a minute, introduce yourself. Tell us about your, your camp experience A little bit. Yeah, so I'm Matt Appleton, um, from the uk and I first came to the camp in 2006. Uh, I did two summers as a counselor, and then the last four years I've been lucky enough to come back with my family to family camp and, um, and really experience both sides of, of what camp offers in terms of the, the camper and the counselor, um, piece. Yeah, yeah, that's that's great. And, and you did. Uh, did you say two years of being a counselor? I did two years. So in 2006 I came over and I was a counselor at The Grove. Okay. And then two years later, so I missed a year, I came back and was a counselor at Greenwoods, which is where I was lucky enough to be, uh, your camp counselor. Yeah. Wow. Uh, and you and Claire, you came to camp together, right? So, yeah, in 2006 I came as a single man. Um, and then in 2008 I brought my then girlfriend, now wife, to camp with me. Um, and she was at Lake of the Woods. She was a dance teacher. Um, so we just had the one summer together there, and that's obviously where we made all our amazing friends and the network that you, you build and grow when you, when you come to camp. Um, and that's where we've been lucky enough to, to really reengage with, with that friendship group. In the, in the last five years or so, in particular, um, having returned to, to the UK after a big stint of time in Australia, what's it like having your two kids now be able to see camp and get, get some of that pumping through their blood? Uh, really surreal. I think seeing, seeing the both of them there, you can see how, how much it brings out the best in them. Both, both the experience and obviously the, the people who are there. The, you know, the counselors have obviously changed over the years in the time that I've, I've known camp, but the, the culture and the, the way that. You know, Dana in particular runs camp and, and that ethos is really ingrained and it, and it, you see it in each of the counselors, um, you know, that, that desire to make that camp experience really unique and really enjoyable for, for anyone who's attending. Um, and I feel really privileged to have had that experience, um, both sides of the coin, as I say, to, to come as a counselor and then to be, to be lucky enough to, to return with my family and, and give them that experience. Um, you know, seeing the, seeing the kids just experience it all that it offers, all those, those different things that they can try and, and. And then will fail at, and then just grow into, and I've seen it over multiple years where, you know, maybe one year they, they tried to do something but couldn't quite do it. And then, you know, you return the next year and they're committed and want to try again. And you, you know, you see them, you see them get up on skis or, you know, get to the top of the climbing wall or wherever it might be. I think it's, it's played a massive part in their young lives. Um, just the whole experience of creating their personality, that resilience, um, and just the joy that, that comes with it as well in, in that environment. Yeah, that's so special that they're able to get a taste of camp and able to experience it and, and really get the best parts of it. You know, like they got their parents there at camp with them, but they also have the freedom to go and, and try all these new things and hopefully meet some, meet some people that will be lifelong friends. Do you anticipate them ever coming to camp as, as full-blown campers? I, I think, I think they may well in, in time to come. They're still still quite young, you know, um, nine and, and nearly 11. So, you know, to send them from the UK for a, yeah, for a full session or something feels like a big step. But Finn in particular, my, my eldest, he's, he's very much committed to, to one day being a, being a camper. Yeah. And, and in his own mind, just, you know, being a member of staff and, and having the full experience as we did. How, how do you feel like camp has changed since you were on staff? Um, I think, I think camp has, has grown and evolved in the way that the world has changed in the last kind of 20 years. Um, I think there's probably much more empathy, um. Much more kindness in terms of just creating that culture and that sensitivity that that's needed. Um, especially when you're dealing with young adults in that way. Um, trying to, you know, give them an understanding of the world, but doing so in a way that that allows them to, to build that resilience, um, but in a safe space. So I think, I think I've probably seen a, a bit more of a shift in that aspect. Um, the, the offering that was, that was there when I was there and the way it's grown in terms of the, you know, size and infrastructure. I think when I came in 2006, uh, it was the second summer of the Glennon Grove, uh, you know, maybe there was half a dozen cabins on that side of the side of the, um, the park and, and just seeing the, the way that the, the buildings have changed over the years and the way they've been added to. Um, and the general offering. I think you can see, you can see almost how society's changed in that way as well, where, you know, there's much more of a leaning towards. Technology, um, towards kind of the arts and crafts piece to music. I think when, you know, when I first came over those, those type of things, um, they, they weren't available. It was definitely arts and crafts, but it was, it was kind of much smaller. Mm-hmm. And I think, you know, looking at the, the cooking and, and everything else that's available now, you can see how it's how it's expanded to meet the growing needs and interests of today's kids. Definitely. How did you, how'd you end up at camp? What, what was your path that brought you to, to Michigan? So, I'd, uh, I'd graduated, uh, school, college, university in 2006. Uh, finished in the May of 2006, but my, my friend had been to camp the year before. Uh, a couple of the guys who I used to play in a soccer team with that had had been over to the states, some of them had been to summer camps, some had been the, been to specialist kind of soccer camps, and they all came back to preseason training in 2005, telling me how good it was and how I should do something like it. So I kind of made that call to, to just explore it as a, as an opportunity, and whether it's something I could do after I'd graduated and I had another friend do. He'd done more of a backpacking route. He'd been out to Australia and New Zealand and he was telling me how good that experience was. So I started to look into, well, when I've graduated, is it an option for me to maybe work the summer at camp and then do a, do a kind of round the world trip? I had a, I think I had an interview in the April. And then, yeah, soon as, uh, soon as that was all, all good to go, I was, I was really keen to get that contract agreed and, and book my flights. So I used my last installment of my student loan from university to book my round the world ticket. So first stop. First stop Michigan, first stop Decatur, uh, and then, and then onto New Zealand, Australia, and then Asia and back to the uk. Wow. Did you get to see any more of the US other than Decatur, Michigan? I absolutely did. Yeah. So I spent, uh, probably about four weeks after, after camp finished, um, with a few friends, made that camp backpacking and, and traveling round and doing different things. Um, so we ended up, I spent some time with some of the friends that we'd met in, at the University of Illinois in Champaign. Had a, a few days there, and then we, we hit the road. I, I went across to. I flew down to Salt Lake of all places. Uh, made some friends there who were, who were counselors. So we, we then picked up there and, and drove through, uh, through Vegas, um, and then onto California and had a few days, a few, well, a couple of weeks, um, looking up that East coast, um, San Fran, San Diego, uh, and LA before I then flew out of LA and, and onto Auckland, New Zealand. So you had the full experience, like you took advantage of, of the visa and, and travel in the US as much as possible? Yeah, I definitely did. I think that was something that I wasn't, I wasn't aware of. And obviously you only pick it up when you've been to camp that. It's almost, it's the first step on a journey for, for most people. Yeah. Uh, especially the international staff. Uh, it's pretty rare that they'll, they'll be kind of in between university. I think the, you know, the age that they tend to come over, they're ready to have that, that full traveling experience. So they'll be, you know, it tends to be that the Aussies and the Kiwis, the South Africans. Into the states and then off to Europe or something. Yeah. And then vice versa, the, uh, the Europeans, the, the Brits will end up going the other way around and heading down, down under, yep. You said you guys lived in Australia for some time, right? We did. So after, after the camp in 2006, I, I went onto New Zealand and lived in New Zealand for eight months and it was then that. Uh, Claire came out to meet me and then we're lucky enough that we both were able to come across in 2008, and then after camp in 2008, we, we used the working holiday visa for New Zealand the first time and then used the working holiday visa for Australia the second time. Mm. So in 2008, we, we had a bit of a toss up between moving to Melbourne or Sydney. And, and camp played a unique part in that because it was always a case of, well, we'll just make the call, we'll see who we meet at camp, um, which of the Aussie mates we, we become friends with and, and where they're from. And then we'll make a call from there. And most of the crew in 2008 were from Melbourne. Um, and I also had a good friend that I met in 2006 who was based in Melbourne. So Melbourne became the, the kind of the natural choice. So we, we stopped in, we managed to stop in Fiji and had a couple of weeks in Fiji before we, uh, we flew out to Melbourne and what was meant to be kind of six months as a, as a work in holiday visa ended up being seven and a half years. Wow. Um, marriage, baby. Um, before we eventually then moved back to the uk. Wow. That's a pretty special journey. He took you around the world and came back with a wife and a kid and another kid coming soon. It's pretty special. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think, I think the part that camp played in that is, is really special to me because,'cause it is the network, it's the people that you meet along the way. Um, it's a really, really unique friendships that you form. In that setting. And it's something that, you know, allowed me to have that network of people in, in those countries to be able to, to feel comfortable to, to make the commitment, to stay there for so long. It, you know, when a bizarre twist as well. I had other contacts who then came to camp, so, uh, you know, a good friend of mine came over a few years later, um, did a few, few summers at Camp Pete and uh, and he would. He would go to camp, come to Australia, spend two weeks on my couch, go and do whatever he was doing in Sydney or over in Perth, and then make his way back to the UK and then rotate through. So I think he did that two or three times. So, um, it's, it's amazing the little, the little kind of knock on effects, but it creates, um, you know, I know the refor, the referral scheme must be really heavily used. Uh, rightly so.'cause I think once you know, you've got a good person and a good staff member on the, on the team. It's, it's using their network to, to create, you know, like-minded people getting over there and doing the same thing. So, uh, so I know that when I'd, when I'd done it, that, that Pete, who's who'd then gone into, uh, his cousin worked there as well in years later. So it's just that little ripple effect that seems to be created from it as well. Totally. So many staff members come from referrals. Absolutely. But it obviously shows that, you know, camp must be doing something right in terms of retention and, and the fact that people are, people are happy to say, yeah, you know, you're my friend and I've just done this, and I, I think you'd really enjoy it and it would be a great experience for you. Yeah. I mean, it's so special too, and I mean, you shared perfect examples of it, the. Um, intimacy that camp environment creates, creates these bonds that are so strong that truly last, last a lifetime. I mean, you know, we're 18 or so years away from your last year at camp. As a counselor and you know, you're, you're talking to Dana regularly. You're seeing, you're coming to camp every year. You're seeing people that you, you know, you worked with years ago and, and you know, it's one of those relationships where you could go a decade without seeing each other and you come back together and no time has passed. Yeah. And it's not just you always, what I've tended to find is some, the friends that I met in, in 2006, you know, you might, they might have drifted away in various ways, but. That they've always got someone who, who they stay in contact with, who they met. Right. So whilst, whilst my, my dynamic and my relationship with them might have parted ways, there's all those little clusters that still, still are maintained still. Those special bonds and of, of friendship that, that we created, uh, retained. What kind of, culture shock, if any, did you have when you first came to camp and, and saw the. Camp environment and energy and ecosystem for the first time. So there was, the reason that it piqued my interest was there used to be a TV show in the UK that showcased summer camps and it, and it just had, it was probably a 30 minute episode, uh, once a week on a Sunday that was just about sleep away camps, and it was just so, so alien to me. Um, but looked so much fun, looked so exciting, even from a young age. I was probably about 12 or 13 when that was broadcast in the uk and I just thought it looked, it looked so cool. It looked, it looked like a great experience. Uh, I think for me, growing up in the, the northwest of England, it's pretty industrial. Um, you know, it's very working class, quite blue collar where I'm from. So getting across, uh, flying into Chicago initially. The first time I'd been to the States, um, I remember working through the whole experience of having to go to London to get my visa. It was the first time I'd been to London at that point as well. So the whole, the whole show of going, the process of working through and, and having to go to the embassy and, and getting everything approved, uh, and the, the butterflies in your stomach that kind of went with that. And then finally landing in the, in the states. And, and it, just seeing how vast it was and how different where I'd been landing kind of in Chicago and working out where I was gonna go, jumping on the Amtrak and then, uh, and then getting off at Decatur was, uh, was a shock to the system. It felt like I'd gone from, from one extreme to the other in terms of seeing this metropolis right, and then this kind of back water and trying to understand where it all fit together. Um, I am, I actually got there quite early on in the, in the season as well, so I was probably person number four or five at camp that year. So there was, there was me and, and a few of the, the office staff who we were all staying in the blue house at the time. And then, um. Yeah, you just kind of slowly but surely, you know, new arrivals every day, every and that process of working, working to set camp up and that whole experience of some of the, some of the individuals that you meet, you know, some of the, the local team, the maintenance team, and, and trying to get your head around that. And, uh, you know, obviously for me, speaking in a different accent, uh, and even just understanding and everything being so foreign, it was, uh, it was a steep learning curve, but it was one that, uh, one that was so fun and so exciting. God, that that must have been bizarre being one of the first people at camp, seeing it, how it looks all winter, needing to make it look good, and then also being the person there to greet all of these first time staff when you are just learning, you know, learning the place yourself. That must have been kind of weird for you. It, it was, but it was, it was really quite exciting as well. I think because my friend had been, the year before, there was a couple of the guys who arrived early who, you know, were starwars at camp by then. Um, and then building, managing to build that relationship and the people, I felt like I managed to, to form those friendships really early on. With, with some of the real core kind of staff members, um, and you rely on those as someone progresses, uh, it is probably easier rather than being, you know, number, number 190 Right. Arriving at camp. Right. It was almost like people were coming to me one at a time when I was, I had the chance to kind of remember their names and learn a little bit about them and, and try and spend some time with them. And it was, it was really unique in that. The, you know, the first, the first week was all just manual labor. Mm-hmm. So, you know, you, you, you're setting up the cabins, you're moving all the furniture. Um, at the time we, we were setting up the docks. It was a different dock system back then, Noah. It was, uh, it was, wasn't the floating docks. So we were, we were in the lake, um, you know, ankle deep and sludge and, and putting the base plates in. Um. Uh, just, just working as a, as a real team. So, you know, kind of after a hard day's graft, working away in the water or whatever it might have been. And then maybe just, you know, coming back and, and asking Dana or whoever it was at the time, is there any chance? Would you let us go out? And obviously that was, that was rewarded. Um, you know, we, she could see that everyone had worked hard and things like that. So it was nice to kind of have those early opportunities to bond in that way as well. Definitely. And it, it's sort of one of those environments where you could be doing the same painful jobs that you'd be doing somewhere else, but for some reason it's just more enjoyable because you're in this environment surrounded by like-minded people in the sun, getting rewarded after a long day's work, you know, it's, it's a special place to do some hard work that might not be as rewarding in other places. Absolutely. And I think the, like you touched on it there with like-minded people, I think the energy that people bring to it, you know, everyone's really excited to be there. Um, you know, looking forward to the summer ahead with that anticipation, you know, you've got people who've been there before and kind of know the drill now, how things work. Yep. And then you've got, you've got new fresh faces, which I obviously was that summer, trying to work out the lay of the land and, and how it all comes together and, uh, and just. Just enjoying meeting everyone. Uh, so many people that, you know, countries that I've never visited or never, never met someone from, and, and building those relationships, uh, it was really, really special time for me. Did you have these perspectives when you were at camp in 2006 or 2008 that this was an experience that was potentially changing the course of your life? Or did that come later on? I think time always offers you different perspectives. Um, in in those moments. It was definitely something that felt so unique. Um, so out of my comfort zone, it was, it, I, I knew, I, I knew it was gonna change me, but I think it's only when you reflect back on those, those experiences and see, see the path that it set me on and the, the relationships that it gave me, the, the friendships, the, the, the, the resilience, the. The ability to kind of put myself in different situations and, and know that everything was gonna be all right. I think it played a huge part in that, and it probably gave me the, the confidence and belief in myself that, that I could do some of the things that maybe I wouldn't have done if I hadn't done that somewhere at Camp First. I think it offered me, it, it gave me that faith in myself that, that I knew I could, I could travel and I could look after myself and I could make. Healthy decisions. Um, but I could, I could have some fun, uh, as well as, you know, creating some amazing memories with, with different and, and unique experiences. Definitely. If, if you were to go back to Matt in 2006, would you do anything differently? Not a chance. Nah, no. I'm, I firmly believe that, um, you know, things happen for a reason. And I think that with every, every decision good, good, bad, or indifferent, you make, uh, ultimately it's the right one. It's the, it's the decision that puts you on the path that you're on. It's, um, I wouldn't have changed anything. I think I had, I had a really good summer. I was, I was, I was lucky that I was, um, I was the, uh. Orange Team Advisor, I think that first session I had at The Grove. So that experience, just, you know, seeing how excited the kids were and how much it meant to them and having to, having to kind of match that energy and keep them motivated and engaged and carry that on for, you know, a couple of days. And it's all, all those kind of things. I think that. That shaped me in different ways. Um, so whilst I'm sure along the, in that summer I made some very silly and Roy decisions, um, uh, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change anything. That's, I love, I love that outlook. You know, it's, you're right, like every decision, every small moment has led to where you are and who you are now. You know, your life and your family and, and I think that's just, just a powerful perspective to, you know, be grateful for the experiences that you had and how you had them. Yeah, absolutely. I think even, you know, in the things that I, I did that might have been, uh, you know, really fun, um, yeah, they were good choices, but there would've been times where things that have failed, but, you know, those, those failings are just lessons and you, you dust yourself off and you come back. Yeah. Bigger and better the next time. Was there anything that you feel like you took away from your time at camp that later down the road, once your career got going and you know, maybe you, when you started having a family that you pulled from your experience at camp at all, or any intangibles that you took away from your experience at camp that you feel like really made an impact in your adult life? I, I think there's several to looking back, I don't know whether there's, it was, it was the first time I would've had such a diverse group of friends, so faiths, um, you know, countries, uh, different sensitivities that, that maybe I hadn't been exposed to in the past. So it probably made me more, more understanding, um, more empathetic to people in, in different ways. It was definitely something that. You know, gave me unique experiences in terms of some soft skills and, and how you, how you need to work with people. So I, I moved, I've moved into, into management roles, uh, pretty early on in my career. And I'm, um, you know, still kind of working in those leadership positions, but those, those soft skills, how to work with people, how to. How to motivate people, how to support people, um, were definitely something that, that you ha you have to utilize and, and sharpen when you're working at camp. Uh, I think it's quite, it's quite interesting how when you're, when you're in a, in a cabin, you are a little team and you work together, um, and you kind of adopt certain roles. And, you know, I was, I was probably the, you know, the disciplinarian in the cabin as maybe you could attest Noah. Um, you know, I, I, I had been the one who was, um, you know, making sure, trying to make sure anyway that everyone was safe, healthy, enjoying themselves, um, but also trying to push people to do certain things in a, in a positive, healthy way. But, um, and then I had had a couple of other colleagues who, um. I, Levi, who was my Australian co-counselor in 2008, who was just, you know, really relaxed and really chill, um, and good fun. Um, and then another guy, Josh, who was from the States, who was very nurturing, very kind, um, and I think between us all, you, you strike a balance and you work out how you, how you fit together. I'm, a bit of a chameleon anyway, I think, and I think that those, those skills that you, that you harness at camp probably helped me understand where I, where maybe I had to push, um, and where I had to pull and, and where I have to do nothing and, and let people make decisions themselves. I think that's definitely something that, you know, I would've first utilized in those camp experiences. I, I'm happy you shared about the, uh, the different roles that the counselors kind of fall into because looking back on it, I feel like I would categorize the three of you in a similar way that you just did. But in hindsight, you, you, in my perspective, you were not this scary disciplinarian counselor. You were, you were this super cool counselor who. Was just the boss, you know? And, at the time, from my perspective as a 8-year-old, however old I was, you, the three of you seem like these grown adults with all this life experience. And in reality, like you're, you're in your young twenties and this is like a first for all you guys and it's really interesting now. Absolutely. See it from this end. I mean, I, I say it to, to my team and I've said it, I've said it a lot and I probably shouldn't, shouldn't share it in this way, but I think we're all just making it up. It doesn't matter how old you are, it doesn't matter what industry you're in, you're all just making it up. And the more you make it up with confidence and kindness, the easier things happen for you. Regardless of, like I say, the industry that you work in. And if, if you can make decisions that sound like you know what you're doing. People will follow you. Absolutely. Gosh, I, I hope Levi and Josh both hear this podcast and man, that's, uh, like, they, that's the power of, uh, of camp and of being a counselor is. Those kids, you know, and I could personally attest to it, those kids remember you, your faces, the impact you had on them for the rest of their lives. And sometimes you fall into the role of being the yes man and the no man. Sometimes you fall into the role of just being the nurturing caretaker. And no matter what role that is, you have the impact that you're meant to have. And I think that's really special about being a counselor and working at camp. Yeah. Well, may, maybe you can give us a bit more of an insight to that then, Noah, in terms of, you know, the way that you put counselors together. Yeah. Do you, do you do any kind of, do, do you work to understand different temperaments and personalities or is it not that scientific? No, it, it. The hope is that it is, you know, we, yeah. We only know counselors personally for about a week until they get assigned a cabin. But yeah, I mean, we're looking at exactly that. Like who's gonna be the person that's going to step up when everyone's exhausted? Who's gonna be the person to help out these specific kids who might need a more nurturing personality, and who's gonna be the person who's just setting the tone for the group? So it's Sounds like the exact dynamic that the three of you had. Um, because without some intentionality there, you're just kind of throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. Yeah. And then everything falls off. But again, like you said, at first, you're kind of hoping for the best, but the beauty of having two sessions is. You can switch everything up halfway through the summer if it doesn't work out. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. But sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you get a dynamic that's so great because those three or four counselors, they're from all different walks of life. They're so different, but they click well and then they just mesh well with the kids that they're with. And, that's one of my favorite parts of the job is like the, um, it's like chemistry. Like you're just playing around with the chemicals to see what makes a positive reaction. Absolutely. And I think something that, um, that we haven't touched on is the work ethic that you need to work at camp. Um, and that's something that I was really lucky. And I think the, both the summers I was the, and from what I've seen coming back to family camp, it's just how committed people are to, you know, to do the things that maybe they don't wanna do if they're tired or it's been a long, hot summer. Um, and the way that people just lift for each other to, to get their job done. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, just before we got on this call, I just got off an interview with someone. We were talking about how a day at camp can be, it could feel like a week, it could be exhausting. You could have had, you know, a tough phone call at home, but then you gotta go jump in your cabin and act like everything's okay and. The most important thing is to remember that camp is a family. We all have each other's backs, and we're all gonna lift for each other when we need to. And, what goes around comes around and, you know, you put in the work, you put in the love and the effort, you're gonna get it back. And, I'm, I'm glad that you see that now too because it's, you know, I think, I think staff really feel that they feel the love, the support that everyone around them has, whether it's. Their co counselors or their super, their division leader, their supervisor, or you know, the camp director. You know, we've all, we're all family. We, it's such a close community. Yeah. And I think you, you see that when you, when you're able to come back year after year, you see how that, how that family's growing and evolving, um, and the dynamic and com and commitment from people within that family for it to continue, for it to offer. The environment and the, the summers that you're able to Yeah. I mean, it's, to your point, I think, um, when you see something every day. Every year it's hard to see what's different and what's changed or, or really compare that with what's stayed the same. But I think when you saw something for a couple years, don't see it for 10, 10 years, whatever it was, and then come back and see it again. You're able to really take in and appreciate, the magic of the place. What's stayed the same and what has changed. Uh, absolutely. I think, you know, going back. I think 2021 was my first summer at family camp and walking around camp and, and it just felt so surreal. You know, walking, walking off the road and walking down the track with the trees onto Greenwoods and just seeing a. You know, the basketball court and the, the volleyball court and the cabins walking down past Iroquois, which was my cabin. Your cabin. Yeah. Uh, and just, just seeing it all was just, it just, it blew my mind uh. And I think camp as a ground has almost got this, this energy to it. Um, and being back there just felt so right. And it felt so, so special to be able to have, have my family there. Um, obviously, you know, me and Claire both shared that experience. But seeing my kids in that environment and just how excited they were, um, the, you know, the friendships that they've formed with, with our friends children, uh, with, with some of the counselors as well, and, and going back year after year and just seeing how much they, they value that, that friendship and the, the way that, you know, the counselors influence. Them in, in such a positive way. It's, uh, it's amazing to see. Yeah. That's amazing. Well, I wanted to, um, I wanted to talk a little bit about your journey the last year. Yeah. And,, you, you have been through. Some ups and some downs and I think it's really powerful hearing and and powerful that the amount you share about your experience. And I think it's really impactful for a lot of people. And, you know, I wanted to see if you would be willing to share a little bit about your journey. Absolutely. Um, more than happy to. Uh, so in February last year, I was diagnosed with colon cancer. Uh, I didn't, I didn't really have any symptoms. It was in the, in the winter, just before, in the November I'd, uh, I'd, I'd done a, a private medical check, just a bit of a, a bit of a review. Uh, you know, I was, I was 41, so I just wanted to make sure all was in order and then I was fit and healthy and all my blood work and everything else was, was great. All my assessments were great, but I'd, I'd lost a little bit of weight so that. That kind of intrigued the doctors and they were asking me a little, little bit about if I'd changed my diet or how I was training or anything in my life, and I hadn't, so I'd, I'd asked them just to pursue some other tests. And that flagged a couple of things. So I did a, a fit test, which, uh, which looks at your poo, um,, uh, and how much, uh, how much blood you're losing. And I was, I had elevated numbers, so I, they referred me, uh, into the good old NHS in the uk and I did a, a capsule endoscopy where you swallow a pill size camera and it records all the way through your digestive tract. Until you eventually flush it away down the toilet. And that, that report, uh, showed that I had a, a thicken of my colon lining and that I needed to, to have a colonoscopy. So in, in February last year, uh, after the colonoscopy appointment, they, they told me that I had an abnormal growth. That it was cancerous and that I need to have surgery. So I had surgery, uh, had that section removed, and then the histology report showed that it was stage three and it spread to lymph nodes. So last summer, uh, just before we came to camp, uh, I had three months of chemotherapy. Um. And it was something that when I, when I found out I needed chemotherapy, my, my nurse who I was dealing with at the time was referring me to my oncologist and, but trying to gimme as much information as possible. And she told me that there was two ways they'd do it. It would either be a three month cycle, which was quite intensive, or a six month cycle, which, um, wasn't quite as, as full on. So I, in my mind, I'd sat with Claire and already said I really want it to be the three month one, because I, I'd, I'd mapped it out, I'd finished in July, and it meant that I'd be able to be, uh, be at family camp in August. So, true enough, I went to see the oncologist and because of the extent of the spread to lymph nodes, he, he wanted to do the more intensive treatment. So I, I did that through, uh, through April, may, and June leading into July. And it, it, uh, it was something that was, it's obviously a challenging time for us as a family. Uh, I had to ended up taking the time off work. I was lucky enough that my employer was, was very good to me, very understanding and, and very supportive. But it was something that my camp family also just spread around us and reached out and held us, was so supportive and I think. You don't, you don't realize some of the relationships that you've built over the years until something like that happens. And seeing, seeing the response from, you know, colleagues from 2006 and 2008 who maybe I hadn't spoken to in 10 years who were, you know, reaching out to semi love and wish me luck and see if they could offer any, any kind of support and then. The other side of the coin being the, you know, the, the real friends from camp who I do speak to all the time and, and seeing how much they, they reacted to support us as a family to, to be there for Claire through that experience. Um, she was the one who was shouldering the burden for us as a family. I was the one who was, you know, maybe going through it physically, but she was the one who was definitely carrying us all. Uh, so for her to have that support from. From Dana and our friendship group, um, as well as seeing, you know, some of the, some of the reactions from people who, who I didn't expect. You know, I, I had messages from people who, who I'd worked with in 2008, who, who told me how, how impactful I'd been, you know, on their, their life. Um, and it was, it was really special. It's probably gonna make me a bit emotional. Now we're thinking about it. It was something that, um. Yeah, I had no idea that, that people thought of me in that way. And it was really, really special to, to be able to have that opportunity and that the flip side of what was a dark time, just that opportunity that people could tell me what they think of me. And fortunately it was, uh, it was beautiful comments I was receiving from people. So no understanding how much camp played a role in that. Um, can't be underestimated. Wow. That is like, so powerful. And the, the importance of community, uh, I mean camp, camp aside, like the people that, you know, were there to lean on and, and support you guys and love you guys during that time. Like that's, that's so powerful. And I mean, that just goes to show We're, we're not meant to be alone. You know, we're not meant to be a species that, that survives in isolation. And, and I think that's a, that's a good example of the power of the people surrounding us, um, and loving us. Can have, uh, do you feel like there's anything, I'm sure there's plenty of things, but do you feel like anything jumps out? As perspective shifts on, on life or on your relationships after having gone through this. I think when you go through, when you go through a really hard time in whatever and however that may be, you'll get your friendship group will step up for you. You'll get friends who, who can't handle that challenge. Um, and you'll also get friends who will surprise you with how much they react and support you. And I think reflecting back on it, I was just so lucky that I had so many friends who I knew would be in my corner, who, who went above and beyond to, to help and support. And then I had friends who I didn't really expect a lot of who. Who were there every step of the way. I think something that was quite unique for me, uh, early on in my diagnosis and my experience was my, my global friendship network. Um, so I would start my day. I was, I traveled quite a bit for work and I had to start my day on the phone to my, you know, Australian friends. Um, some of them I met while I was over there. Some of them I met when I was at camp and I would finish my day on the phone to my American friends. Um, I was chasing the sun with that support group and, uh, and it was invaluable to me. Something that was really serendipitous to me was my mate, who I met in 2006, who, um, we kind of followed to Melbourne. His, his wife is a, is a colorectal surgeon, so she, them as a couple were, uh, really just there for us for everything. Um. You know, I, I used to make lists of things that I'd have to speak to my, my, my consultant team about, and then I quickly realized that I, I kind of had one on speed dial. So, you know, I used to speak to both of them all the time. One for one for more emotional support, one for some humor, uh, and then one who was just, you know, the, the absolute informed. Person to give me everything I needed. Um, and with that kind of diagnosis, there was a, you know, there's a period of time where you're not really sure. You don't know, you dunno how it's gonna land. You don't know if there's any spread, you don't know what stage things are at. So to be able to have those conversations and get a true understanding of, you know, what certain outcomes might be, um, with someone who could be really candid and open with me, uh, as well as, you know, hold space for me in that way was, was a true blessing for me. Yeah, that's special man. Um, and for our listeners, can you share about where you are now in your cancer journey? Absolutely. So I, I finished my treatment in, in July. I was, uh, I rang the bell. I'm not sure if that's a thing in the States. Yeah, it is. Okay. So I rang the bell. Um. And then it's just monitoring and tracking and measuring. So I've, I've had, I have blood tests every three months. Um, but just yesterday I had my annual checkup just to make sure that everything was okay. So that was a colonoscopy and that was, that was all clear and everything's, uh, as it should be. So that was a huge relief just to, to get that, that green light. Um, I think the last 12 months throughout the whole experience, I've. You know, it, it changes your perspective on things and it makes you realize what's important. Um, and I've truly really tried to, to lean into that, but I didn't realize that as the time's gotten closer and closer to this date, just how much things were probably weighing on me a little bit. And getting that, that news yesterday just was a huge weight lifted and meant that I could focus once again on that. On that. On that what's on the, what's important and the, and the gratitude for what, what we have and, and the love and friendship and, and family that I've got. That's special. I thank you for sharing. I think it's, it's, uh, it's powerful stuff and it's, it's heavy. It's, it's, life is hard and, and cancer is scary and I think it's so important to talk about and, and I think you're doing the world of service for talking about it. Um, but I wanna hear how are you going to be celebrating life this year? Um, so. One of the things that we discussed as a family last year was just making sure that we were taking opportunities, um, whether that be professionally, travel, you know, whatever it may be. So, you know, I'm hoping that that professionally things are things progressing well. I think I've been really lucky that I've been able to return to work and, and slot straight back in, um, and just enjoy my role and, and working with, with clients in the way that I do. Uh, and then there's definitely lots of travel this year, so unfortunately I'm, I'm not returning to family camp this year. Um, but we've got lots and lots of plans. So we're, we're, we're vacationing with, with Dana and, and the rest of our friends, uh, in April, in over Easter. And then we've got some trips in Europe, um, as a family and, and then. Just in the summer, in the winter, just gone, we, we went back to Australia for the first time in seven years. So, so that was really special to, to see that friendship group again and to, um, you know, to have that experience. I think it's, it was for us, it was about. Not putting things off, and really grabbing opportunities while they're available to us. You know, my kids are starting to, to get a little bit older and approach in high school and things like that. So it, for us, it's just about. You know, supporting them and enjoying them. Trying to encourage them to be, you know, the best versions themselves that they can be as well. Amazing. Sounds like a good way to take a hold of life and, and not pass up on the opportunities that that'll make you happy and connect you to your people and just keep on going. Um if you had to give one piece of advice to a incoming counselor coming from the UK to the US for the first time to experience camp, what would that advice be? Oh, do it all. Uh, you know, don't. Don't worry about how tired you might be tomorrow. Don't worry about, um, you know, failing. Don't worry about, uh, whether you feel like you've got a skill set to do a certain thing, you know, the, your colleagues will support you with that. Think something that was we, I definitely learned at camp was, you know, just feeling comfortable to stand in front of a group. Do something silly. Um, I'd dread to think how many times at camp I, I wore a dress or, or had face paint on, or whatever it may have been. Um, but you know, it was just one of those things that just, just have fun, um, leave your ego at the door and, uh, and savor every opportunity. A perfect note to end on. Maddie, thank you so much for joining and sharing about your experience. I, it's great to, great to catch up and just hear about life a little bit. You're really welcome though. It was an absolute pleasure. Thank you.