Visiting Stones Throw Farmstead: EP38

Today’s episode comes to you from Shrewsbury Vermont where we visit with Jess and Connor of  Stones Throw Farmstead. They are young farmers who are in their third season after moving to Vermont and focused on building up a 1 acre market garden to be part of the community and support the local farmers markets. We start off by looking at the farm stand, microgreens set-up, and how they’ve laid out their farm. They utilize several cat tunnels, inter cropping, and managing it with hand tools. We then sit down and learn a bit more about where they got their farming backgrounds, why they got into agriculture and why they chose to settle in Vermont. I hope you enjoy this episode, thanks for listening. 

Transcript

Jessica Purks (00:00:10):

Hello, I'm Jessica Purks, and I run Stones Throw Farm here in Shrewsbury, Vermont.

Connor Self (00:00:16):

My name's Connor Self, and we're a small diversified veggie and cut flour market garden, growing on about one acre, doing things by hand and with a great team of employees. We sell to farmer's markets and through our farm stand and some wholesale.

Andy Chamberlain (00:00:39):

I'm your host, Andy Chamberlain, and I take you behind the scenes to learn how farmers are building their business in sustainable agriculture. These farmer-to-farmer interviews cover a wide range of topics from cropping systems, marketing channels, lifestyle decisions, and lessons learned along the way. This podcast is supported by the University of Vermont Extension and the Vermont Vegetable and Berry Growers Association. It has funding from the Vermont Agency of Agriculture, Food & Markets as part of a specialty crop block grant. Unfortunately, the end of that grant funding is coming to a close soon, so if you enjoy the show and would like to keep more episodes coming, please consider making a donation. Any amount is greatly appreciated and can be made on our website, the farmersshare.com/support. Thank you.

(00:01:25):

Today's episode comes to you from Shrewsbury, Vermont, where we visit with Jess and Connor of Stone's Throw Farmstead. They're young farmers who are in their third season after moving to Vermont and focused on building up a one-acre market garden to be part of the community and support the local farmers market. We start off by looking at the farm stand, micro green setup, and how they've laid out their farm. They utilize several cat tunnels, intercropping, and manage it all with hand tools. We then sit down and learn a bit more about where they got their farming backgrounds, why they got into agriculture, and why they chose to settle in Vermont. I hope you enjoy this episode. Thanks for listening.

Jessica Purks (00:02:09):

The farm, we moved here, it's been three years. This is our third summer here, and it's a 16-acre property, and there's about a six-acre hayfield over there, and that's where most of our veggies are grown, and then we also immediately transitioned the front and backyards into flower beds, which have been hit by frost by now.

Andy Chamberlain (00:02:29):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:02:31):

And so we mostly grow out there in the hayfield, but then there's a few gardens around the house, and then this is our little greenhouse. A neighbor had this on their property up the hill from us, and we needed one, and they're like, "You guys want this?" We're like, "I don't know. It's a little small and a little flat, but it's for free." We dismantled it and then invested some money into it, and got her fired up and we got a VCRD grant to get a wood-fueled rocket stove there that goes all through the night, so we can sleep through the night using wood fuel in this space, which is kind of a dream come true.

(00:03:12):

It's definitely a little undersized. We've been doing more paper pot to keep it lean and just like quicker turnaround in the space and have reduced the aisleways a lot just to get all the plants in here that we want and need to, but so far it's been a great little starter greenhouse.

Connor Self (00:03:29):

Yeah, it's bricking.

Jessica Purks (00:03:29):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:03:30):

Yeah, it's just big enough.

Jessica Purks (00:03:31):

We'll have to replace it with a bigger one-

Connor Self (00:03:34):

Eventually.

Jessica Purks (00:03:34):

... probably in the next couple of years, but so far it's [inaudible 00:03:38].

Andy Chamberlain (00:03:38):

Have you added any posts in the middle for snow load?

Connor Self (00:03:41):

In the winter, we put up some four by fours, yeah, and then we rake the roof anytime it snows.

Jessica Purks (00:03:47):

We get up to rake the roof.

Andy Chamberlain (00:03:50):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:03:50):

I mean, you could see it's an oldie and it's-

Connor Self (00:03:52):

It's pretty flat.

Jessica Purks (00:03:52):

... definitely been flattened.

Connor Self (00:03:54):

They weren't using it, so it was not inflated and not being raked, and it didn't collapse on them, so it's a good sign, I guess.

Jessica Purks (00:04:02):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:04:02):

Yeah. Well, inflation does help.

Connor Self (00:04:04):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:04:04):

Yeah, so we haven't had any issues with it so far. It's been up two winters now-

Connor Self (00:04:08):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:04:09):

... so...

Andy Chamberlain (00:04:12):

Got some heirloom mums going?

Jessica Purks (00:04:13):

Yeah. Yeah, so we got these this year and I'm just growing them out in pots, and I'm going to overwinter them and then propagate a bunch of them in the spring and then put them in a tunnel next year. And with the organic certification, these aren't certified organic mums and those don't exist anywhere in the world anyway, but if I grow up my own stock, then I can plant them out and our flowers are certified organic, too, so that's kind of our workaround.

Andy Chamberlain (00:04:39):

Yeah. My wife got a few this summer to try and they're just coming in looking pretty.

Jessica Purks (00:04:44):

I know.

Andy Chamberlain (00:04:44):

Yeah, they're-

Jessica Purks (00:04:44):

They come in when everything else is about-

Andy Chamberlain (00:04:44):

... they're cool.

Jessica Purks (00:04:46):

... to say goodbye and they're fabulous. Look at the colors and the forms. Yeah. They're going to be really fun and I think will give us an edge on the flowers in the fall once everything else has been nipped by frost, so-

Andy Chamberlain (00:04:59):

Right.

Jessica Purks (00:05:00):

... and some of them are perennial, too, some are not, but I'm excited about the perennial ones that are hardy enough for our zone. Then, yeah, we also use a space to cure and dry down our onions, which has worked out well.

Andy Chamberlain (00:05:10):

Right.

Connor Self (00:05:11):

Should we look at the microgreens?

Jessica Purks (00:05:14):

Oh yeah, we could pop into the microgreens. Yeah, so we've known for years that microgreens are a great add-on to the market garden, and finally this winter we rolled them out and they've been awesome. We use this space in our mudroom as our microgreen area and we have a bunch of metro racks in here. Is Bianca in here?

Connor Self (00:05:33):

No.

Jessica Purks (00:05:35):

Oh, Bianca's not here? Bianca was just cutting a bunch for us. So we have all these racks with lights and-

Andy Chamberlain (00:05:40):

Nice,

Jessica Purks (00:05:40):

... we just sew them into paper pot trays, and then we got these sweet boot trays offline and we bottom water.

Connor Self (00:05:48):

So we bottom water everything.

Jessica Purks (00:05:50):

Oh, it can keep these guys going year round-

Andy Chamberlain (00:05:52):

Yep.

Jessica Purks (00:05:52):

... and they've been a really great crop for us. They've gotten us into new markets, like new co-ops that we didn't have access to before, and then we also make this mix called our elevation mix, which has lettuce as the base and then pea shoots and radish microgreens and like a baby green. It's usually baby kale, but also alternates with arugula or mustard or whatever we have coming in from the field, and that's been like a super popular product for us.

Andy Chamberlain (00:06:20):

Boot trays, these-

Jessica Purks (00:06:21):

These things.

Andy Chamberlain (00:06:22):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:06:22):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:06:23):

Yeah, like rubber boot. Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:06:23):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:06:24):

Set your boots in. Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:06:25):

Yeah. For anyone who's looking for a bottom watering tray that will fit a paper pot that has room around the tray, these are from-

Connor Self (00:06:31):

Yes.

Jessica Purks (00:06:32):

... schoolsupply.com

Andy Chamberlain (00:06:32):

Like just-

Jessica Purks (00:06:32):

... and it's-

Andy Chamberlain (00:06:32):

... big enough.

Jessica Purks (00:06:34):

... a boot tray.

Andy Chamberlain (00:06:34):

Yeah, exactly.

Connor Self (00:06:35):

Water it like that.

Jessica Purks (00:06:36):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:06:37):

Makes it easy.

Jessica Purks (00:06:38):

They've worked really well and they've been pretty durable.

Andy Chamberlain (00:06:42):

We did that too. I got some metro racking that was 24 inches deep and then we got four-foot-long boot trays-

Jessica Purks (00:06:52):

Oh yes.

Andy Chamberlain (00:06:52):

... essentially to do the same thing-

Jessica Purks (00:06:53):

Yeah, yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:06:54):

... so you could... Yeah, but they were almost exactly the same as the 1020, so it was still kind of a pain to water, but-

Jessica Purks (00:07:01):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:07:02):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:07:03):

... at that point, we were carrying them in out of the basement to another house on cold mornings and that was nice because we could carry the tow of us all four trays at the same time, carrying device, too.

Jessica Purks (00:07:15):

Yep, yep, for sure.

Connor Self (00:07:17):

Yeah. We still start a lot of stuff in the basement, so it's a lot of carrying up the stairs in the spring.

Jessica Purks (00:07:19):

Yeah, and carrying down the stairs-

Connor Self (00:07:19):

Yeah, fun.

Jessica Purks (00:07:19):

... all the soil.

Connor Self (00:07:19):

Fun, fun.

Andy Chamberlain (00:07:19):

Oh yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:07:19):

You know how it is.

Connor Self (00:07:19):

But the basements are so useful, I mean it's a lot of carrying up the stairs in the spring.

Jessica Purks (00:07:30):

Yeah, and carrying down the stairs for the soil. You know how it is.

Connor Self (00:07:31):

But basements are so useful, I mean... got drainage.

Andy Chamberlain (00:07:33):

They don't freeze.

Connor Self (00:07:34):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:07:35):

And so what are your primary markets?

Jessica Purks (00:07:38):

[inaudible 00:07:39]-

Connor Self (00:07:39):

We do Rutland Farmers Market and the Ludlow Farmers Market, and then that's probably about 40% of our sales, and then maybe 30% is from the farm stand, and then wholesale-

Jessica Purks (00:07:56):

I'll get the keys to-

Connor Self (00:07:56):

... is the rest of it.

Jessica Purks (00:07:56):

... yeah.

Connor Self (00:07:59):

Okay. Yeah, it seems like there's tons of demand in all three of those areas. We haven't had any trouble selling stuff.

Jessica Purks (00:08:08):

So we just closed this because everybody forgets that local food exists beyond Labor Day, but...

Connor Self (00:08:15):

Yeah, this is open until-

Jessica Purks (00:08:17):

... this is so unfortunate.

Connor Self (00:08:17):

... until the beginning of October, but yeah, from June to October, we stock our veggies in here and then like local snacks and drinks.

Jessica Purks (00:08:28):

We just closed it this weekend. We haven't fully emptied out yet.

Connor Self (00:08:31):

And then we get a lot of hikers from the Appalachian Trail and Long Trail, so they come and buy ice cream and chocolate milk and cheese-

Andy Chamberlain (00:08:40):

And snacks, yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:08:42):

And sometimes a bunch of carrots-

Connor Self (00:08:42):

Sometimes-

Jessica Purks (00:08:42):

... [inaudible 00:08:43].

Connor Self (00:08:43):

... the veggies, but they don't eat as much salad as they should.

Jessica Purks (00:08:46):

Yeah. Well, because they're so calorie hungry. We need to have like more calorie dense vegetables.

Connor Self (00:08:52):

They just look for the most calories and-

Jessica Purks (00:08:55):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:08:55):

Yeah, yeah.

Connor Self (00:08:55):

... go with that. We used to have it in the mudroom, and then we got a grant to sort of put up some more walls and lighting and electrical to move it out here in the barn.

Jessica Purks (00:09:05):

And then, yeah, we set up a little pergola out there, so for future workshops. Hosting community gatherings and workshops has always been part of the vision and we're slowly rolling that out. I think this year kind of feels like we got closer to it and we hosted a NOFA pizza social here in this space and it worked out really well. [inaudible 00:09:24]-

Connor Self (00:09:24):

By far, the-

Jessica Purks (00:09:25):

... pretty much everything that Acorn sells is in here.

Andy Chamberlain (00:09:28):

A little bit of this and a little bit of that and-

Connor Self (00:09:29):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:09:31):

... all your local stuff, yeah, the value added from all the local-

Jessica Purks (00:09:34):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:09:35):

Yeah. We got a barcode scanner this year. That was fun.

Jessica Purks (00:09:38):

Big upgrade.

Connor Self (00:09:38):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:09:39):

Do you guys have one in yours?

Andy Chamberlain (00:09:40):

No, I was this close to doing it this spring and then I'm like, "Aah," and then I got busy and that was the last I thought about it. Now, maybe next year.

Jessica Purks (00:09:48):

It's so easy. It is like so worth the investment. I mean, it's not even that expensive and then the setup isn't really that much. I think you would save a lot of headaches and like potential product losses.

Andy Chamberlain (00:09:58):

Well, and it would speed up checkout and reduce confusion and I think that would help, but then I was thinking like, "Well, how much value-added stuff do we have that has a barcode versus we've got 20 different veggie crops?" That's also kind of a pain, so then do I have a sheet on the wall with like corn and onions?

Jessica Purks (00:10:16):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:10:16):

Or-

Jessica Purks (00:10:17):

We haven't done the vegetables yet, but it felt like a good first step just to get on the side.

Andy Chamberlain (00:10:21):

I thought, "Well, maybe I could split it, too," so they're using the barcode for all the package stuff and then you just have the homepage on the iPad with-

Jessica Purks (00:10:29):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:10:29):

That's kind of where we're at.

Andy Chamberlain (00:10:29):

... with the buttons.

Jessica Purks (00:10:29):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:10:31):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:10:32):

What system do you have?

Connor Self (00:10:33):

This is-

Jessica Purks (00:10:34):

We use Wix.

Andy Chamberlain (00:10:36):

Okay.

Jessica Purks (00:10:36):

Wix is our website and then it's also our store. So we wanted a website that we could easily pivot to like online sales or accommodation and stays or events and stuff, and so that website seemed to offer a lot of that functionality. This is the tablet that they sell to work with their software, but yeah, it looks like all of them. It has the buttons and the categories and the search bar and folks can check themself out with no major drama usually.

Connor Self (00:11:05):

Yeah, most people figure it out.

Jessica Purks (00:11:07):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:11:08):

Yeah-

Jessica Purks (00:11:09):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:11:09):

... and is it fairly locked out so they can't get into the backside of things?

Jessica Purks (00:11:12):

Yeah. Yeah, so we have it set up to a certain role that is always logged in and you would be blocked if you try to put in, do anything suspicious on that. Yeah. But yeah, it's worked out pretty good.

Andy Chamberlain (00:11:27):

What percentage of your sales do you think is credit card versus cash?

Jessica Purks (00:11:31):

Well, here it is totally credit card or a farm card because we don't want a cash box that would walk off like they always inevitably do, so we just set it up with credit card and then we also offer our farm gift card, which we just call our farm cards. It kind of functions like a CSA. We push it in the beginning of the season. We throw on a little extra as a thank you for supporting the farm early in the season, and then they can use it here or at the farmers market or online when we go online for the winter. So we'll offer stuff on our online store in the wintertime and we do delivery or people can pick up. The farm card's been great and people just scan it with the barcode scanner, so it's really easy for them to use and most folks pay with us, pay for it with either cash or a check, so we save some of those credit card fees, so-

Andy Chamberlain (00:12:17):

Okay, yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:12:18):

Yeah, and it costs like less than a dollar to make, so totally loves it.

Andy Chamberlain (00:12:22):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:12:22):

Yeah [inaudible 00:12:22].

Connor Self (00:12:22):

Yeah, so this is all card, and then the farmers market, it's like 10% people pay with card.

Andy Chamberlain (00:12:29):

Oh, wow.

Connor Self (00:12:30):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:12:31):

Yeah. The Rutland Farmers Market is great with paying with cash or the tokens.

Andy Chamberlain (00:12:36):

Wow, that's funny.

Jessica Purks (00:12:37):

Yeah. They're like anti-card. It's pretty awesome, and they all bring their own bag. It's a really good farmers market in that way. Maybe, well, we'll come back and visit the wash/pack?

Andy Chamberlain (00:12:47):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:12:47):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:12:47):

In use now.

Jessica Purks (00:12:48):

This is our spray station. It looks like everybody else's spray station. Hoses and a pallet on the grass.

Andy Chamberlain (00:12:56):

Basic.

Jessica Purks (00:12:58):

We do have hopes to put like a lean-to on the back of this garage and have a doorway going into the garage where our wash/pack is, and so we could have like an extension of the wash/pack and do a lot of like root spraying out here and tote washing undercover, and it'd be a bit more of a dignified space and not so much mess.

Andy Chamberlain (00:13:16):

Did you build that building?

Jessica Purks (00:13:17):

No. So when we moved to this property, there was this garage, this three-bay garage, this barn, and the house, and these fenced in paddocks around the barn. There was like nothing else. There was no gardens or anything, no deer fence, and there was a frost-free in the garage, and like as soon as we toured the property and we saw the frost-free, we just had like wash/pack eyes all over that space. We were like, "This is perfect. There's drainage."

Connor Self (00:13:38):

One bay's

Jessica Purks (00:13:39):

[inaudible 00:13:39].

Connor Self (00:13:39):

... already been closed off, no garage door, and so they were getting ready to convert it into something, but we just converted into the wash/pack and it's... Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:13:49):

I was just noticing that header here on this back wall that's just-

Connor Self (00:13:51):

Yeah, that was already there-

Andy Chamberlain (00:13:51):

... waiting-

Connor Self (00:13:51):

... too. I know. Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:13:51):

... waiting for another-

Jessica Purks (00:13:51):

Wash/pack extension.

Andy Chamberlain (00:13:51):

... another roof.

Connor Self (00:13:51):

Exactly. It's meant to be.

Jessica Purks (00:13:51):

Yeah, so-

Andy Chamberlain (00:13:51):

That's convenient.

Jessica Purks (00:13:59):

... that'll be another grant we'll have to apply for to do that. Maybe put a slab down. We really like the wheelability. The concrete floor on the inside is awesome. Everything's on wheels and just feels so much more body-friendly.

Andy Chamberlain (00:14:11):

Yeah. It'd be real easy to just bring that all the way around to the door.

Jessica Purks (00:14:14):

Yeah, a little apron.

Andy Chamberlain (00:14:15):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:14:16):

Yeah, yeah, so we'd love to keep it wheel-friendly when we do decide to dig into this project, but I don't know, putting down the slab is so expensive.

Andy Chamberlain (00:14:26):

Yeah, it is.

Jessica Purks (00:14:27):

Yeah, so maybe just gravel.

Andy Chamberlain (00:14:31):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:14:31):

That'll hold us for a while.

Andy Chamberlain (00:14:32):

Gravel's one step closer to the concrete.

Connor Self (00:14:34):

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, we liked the fact that there wasn't too much infrastructure here because we didn't want an old dairy farm with silos falling down-

Jessica Purks (00:14:47):

Yeah, and-

Connor Self (00:14:48):

... and buildings to maintain.

Jessica Purks (00:14:49):

... when we were shopping for farms, we really were inspired by Ben Hartman's Lean Farm model and we wanted a property that didn't have a lot of aging infrastructure. We wanted a property that was resilient with water and woods and felt a little insulated, wasn't surrounded by a lot of other farms. And also a place, like if we gave up farming, it could be a great homestead property because we knew we were going to invest a lot of time and energy and plantings on this land. We might not want to walk away from it just when we decided to stop farming vegetables. So when we toured this place, it just checked so many boxes and it was close to the AT and we're like, "Oh, we'll trail run every day." That hasn't happened once in three years.

Andy Chamberlain (00:15:34):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:15:37):

This project right here, we've had a lot of ponding here-

Connor Self (00:15:40):

Yeah, so it's like-

Jessica Purks (00:15:41):

... in spring and summer.

Connor Self (00:15:41):

... the one wet spot on the farm, but it's our main path out to the field. So in a wet year, we were walking through the mud for most of the season over and over and over again-

Jessica Purks (00:15:50):

So-

Connor Self (00:15:51):

... and so now, we've got the channel reshaped and we can put a bridge over it. It was probably it used to be a stream and then they had horses in here for years and kind of shallow, you know-

Jessica Purks (00:16:04):

You mean the hoof shod.

Connor Self (00:16:05):

... mucked it all up, and so the channel was kind of lost and then the water just... The mud kept getting bigger and bigger.

Jessica Purks (00:16:12):

Yeah-

Connor Self (00:16:14):

So-

Jessica Purks (00:16:14):

... and the crew wants to wear sandals and stuff on the farm. We're all about wearing your Chacos and Tevas if you want to, but no one wants to go through the mud in that. So yeah, we had to do it for team morale and spirit.

Andy Chamberlain (00:16:26):

Well, you picked a good dry year to do a little excavation.

Connor Self (00:16:29):

Yeah-

Jessica Purks (00:16:29):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:16:29):

... we got lucky that way.

Jessica Purks (00:16:29):

For sure-

Andy Chamberlain (00:16:29):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:16:32):

... and this space, too, we're working with NRCS to do a bunch of tree plantings, and this paddock, we're just going to plant out a bunch of elderberry and willow and winterberry, I think. We're excited for this next year. We're going to start investing a lot more in perennial plantings, and it's always been a dream since we met and we started thinking about farming as like, "Yes, the annual veggies and flowers, but like let's put some roots down with perennials." We've been kind of biding our time and like kind of watching the land and trying to find the money and the resources to invest in perennial plantings. I think starting this fall and next year, we're going to do like blueberries. We're doing a lot of peony, a big peony planting, that NRCS planting. We'd love to do kiwi berries. So I feel like it's all starting to take shape.

Connor Self (00:17:21):

We're supposed to do some alley cropping, too-

Jessica Purks (00:17:23):

Oh yeah.

Connor Self (00:17:24):

... so we're going to put fruit trees kind of in amongst the veggie blocks, and then perennial understory under the fruit trees, but-

Andy Chamberlain (00:17:36):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:17:38):

... it should be fun.

Jessica Purks (00:17:38):

Shoot, you were supposed to come out here with some unmarketable kale-

Andy Chamberlain (00:17:41):

Doh.

Jessica Purks (00:17:41):

... to keep these guys happy.

Andy Chamberlain (00:17:42):

I know. I-

Connor Self (00:17:46):

Oh, I gave them some, but-

Jessica Purks (00:17:46):

Oh yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:17:46):

They're working on a pile of something there.

Connor Self (00:17:47):

They're still hungry.

Jessica Purks (00:17:48):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:17:48):

Boy, they are cute.

Jessica Purks (00:17:49):

Aren't they? So that's our little flock of sheep and three alpacas, and we got them as soon as we landed here because when we got here, the grass was like six feet tall everywhere.

Andy Chamberlain (00:18:00):

Whoa.

Jessica Purks (00:18:00):

We're like, "Okay." Connor and I are pretty staunchly anti-tractor, or were and still are, but kind of budging a little bit, but we didn't want to have a bush hog and a tractor, and so we're like, "We'll get some sheep and they'll manage the land for us," and they do. They do a great job, but they're a lot of work because we rotate them every day and they always get fresh grass. Yeah.

Connor Self (00:18:24):

It definitely takes more time than sitting on a bush hog once or twice a year.

Jessica Purks (00:18:26):

But we also send some to the slaughterhouse every year and we get their meat and their fiber back and we get the skins tanned and...

Andy Chamberlain (00:18:34):

What breed are these?

Jessica Purks (00:18:36):

These are a mix of Icelandics and Coopworths, so like those guys there.

Connor Self (00:18:42):

Yeah, they're all kind of mixed breed at this point.

Jessica Purks (00:18:45):

Some of them [inaudible 00:18:46].

Connor Self (00:18:45):

We kind of just find whatever ram we can get ahold of in the fall. We don't keep our own rams, so last year we bred them with a Romney.

Jessica Purks (00:18:53):

I think we're probably breaking a lot of like sheep rules. We don't-

Connor Self (00:18:56):

We're not too serious about it.

Jessica Purks (00:18:57):

... take them really seriously. We're just like, "They're cut. They love to eat the grass and they'll eat our scraps."

Andy Chamberlain (00:19:01):

They're ridiculously cute.

Jessica Purks (00:19:03):

They're really sweet. Neighbors love to come see them. We love to just look out of the windows in the house and like see them grazing in the periphery around the veggie fields.

Andy Chamberlain (00:19:14):

Did you say llama or alpaca?

Connor Self (00:19:15):

Alpaca.

Andy Chamberlain (00:19:15):

Alpaca.

Jessica Purks (00:19:16):

They're alpacas-

Andy Chamberlain (00:19:16):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:19:17):

... but we call them llamas all the time, but they are alpacas, but yeah.

Connor Self (00:19:21):

We wanted llamas, but this is what we found, so-

Jessica Purks (00:19:24):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:19:24):

Alpaca eating kale.

Jessica Purks (00:19:25):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:19:26):

Thank you. My Instagram will now explode.

Jessica Purks (00:19:31):

Yes. Yes, they're very on trend right now.

Andy Chamberlain (00:19:36):

So they're your lawn mowers.

Jessica Purks (00:19:37):

They're our lawnmowers. We also use them like if there's a new block that we want to open up in this... So this is a hay field. This is like the six-acre hay field I mentioned. It's been hayed for at least 30 decades and it's pretty-

Connor Self (00:19:52):

30 years.

Jessica Purks (00:19:54):

... 30, oh yeah, 30 years. 30 years, yeah, and it's pretty depleted. It's like a sandy loam soil. What is it, Middlebury?

Connor Self (00:20:01):

Silt loam and Middlebury loam.

Jessica Purks (00:20:03):

Middlebury loam and Pauline silt loam.

Connor Self (00:20:06):

Yeah, it feels pretty sandy.

Jessica Purks (00:20:08):

It feels-

Connor Self (00:20:08):

[inaudible 00:20:08].

Jessica Purks (00:20:08):

... very sandy and beachy sometimes, especially in some areas, and yeah, pretty depleted when we got here, and we also saw the value of these guys munching and like restoring fertility as they went.

Andy Chamberlain (00:20:20):

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:20:20):

And so we will put them in areas that we are going to transition to veggie cropping and let them eat down the grass and do their thing in that space. Then, we'll usually tarp it or mow it or something and then tarp it and then get in there. Then, we practice pretty low tillage, like no tillage, low... It's mostly low-till because we do initiate new ground with a tiller-

Andy Chamberlain (00:20:43):

Yep.

Jessica Purks (00:20:43):

... and so we'll like tarp an area and then bring the tiller in after it's all been kind of cooked off and work in the limestone and some amendments and kind of kick-start a bed that way. Then, the idea is that that bed won't see a tiller again unless it's like an emergency situation, which doesn't... The tarp is also like our plan A emergency response and like the tiller is plan B. If it is scary somewhere, we can just throw a tarp on it and give it a couple of months and it'll be like a gorgeous blank slate under there and we just start over.

Andy Chamberlain (00:21:17):

Cover it up and forget about it for a while.

Jessica Purks (00:21:19):

Yeah. It's a really sweet tool, these tarps, so-

Andy Chamberlain (00:21:21):

So you're using landscape fabric-

Jessica Purks (00:21:22):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (00:21:23):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:21:23):

... for tarps?

(00:21:24):

Mm-hmm. Yes, not-

Connor Self (00:21:25):

It's easy-

Jessica Purks (00:21:25):

... silage tarps.

Connor Self (00:21:26):

... it's easier to move around and lightweight and-

Jessica Purks (00:21:29):

Yeah. We-

Connor Self (00:21:29):

... yeah, I don't know. We've always done it this way. I've never done it side by side with silage tarp, but we've used heavier tarps and just got old dragging them around. The nice thing is these don't puddle, so you're not dealing with slimy-

Andy Chamberlain (00:21:47):

Right, less sludge or-

Connor Self (00:21:48):

... like frog eggs and slugs and stuff.

Jessica Purks (00:21:51):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:21:52):

A little less nasty.

Andy Chamberlain (00:21:53):

Yeah, yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:21:54):

And the sandbags, we didn't want to have sandbags on this farm. You won't see them anywhere, and we wanted the farm to be as body-friendly as possible and minimal lugging around heavy bags of rocks and sand, and so the tarp was like one of those options like, "We can just staple this down." It's way more accessible to folks, and I like that they do drain and let water onto the soil, and they still do the job great as far as like the occultation goals, like killing off the top foliage, so yeah. They work good, and we don't use them permanently anywhere. We won't burn holes into any of these. They'll just be used to like cover up a block or initiate a new block, and we have right now out here four Farmers Friend cat tunnels that we move about once a year.

(00:22:41):

It takes about a morning, two people to break one down and set it up, and we'll leave... Where are the anchors? There's a... Oh, here we go. You can see here, they kind of like transition between two zones and we'll just leave the anchor rebars in place, so that saves some work. We'll like dismantle this and put it there and that just buys us a little more time in our short growing season here in Shrewsbury, and we also didn't want to run into that like inevitable-

Connor Self (00:23:11):

Salt buildup-

Jessica Purks (00:23:11):

... yeah.

Connor Self (00:23:12):

... so like every year the tomatoes are somewhere else and then that block gets rained on for a season.

Andy Chamberlain (00:23:18):

Right.

Jessica Purks (00:23:18):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (00:23:19):

Don't have all the salts, but yeah, we'll plant something like these greens here, and then they're already growing. We'll move the tunnel right over them now that tomatoes are done.

Andy Chamberlain (00:23:31):

Okay, and then that'll be your fall-

Connor Self (00:23:33):

That'll be winter. Yeah-

Andy Chamberlain (00:23:34):

... wintergreens?

Connor Self (00:23:34):

... fall/winter, and then the tomatoes will be there next year and greens will be here and...

Jessica Purks (00:23:40):

Did you notice our really healthy crop of grass?

Andy Chamberlain (00:23:43):

Yeah. I was wondering if that was a perennial or annual.

Connor Self (00:23:48):

That was a choice. Yeah, we're trying grass pathways, and so that was just like the pasture that grew back in the aisleways and we just mow it.

Andy Chamberlain (00:24:00):

With push mower?

Connor Self (00:24:00):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:24:00):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (00:24:02):

Yeah, it's a lot of mowing. That's where-

Andy Chamberlain (00:24:03):

So how's that been-

Connor Self (00:24:04):

... we're running into.

Andy Chamberlain (00:24:05):

... working trying to grow greens between pasture?

Connor Self (00:24:07):

It works and the greens are great. Obviously, it's the grass stays one step ahead of us sometimes.

Jessica Purks (00:24:16):

It's been hard to prioritize the mowing-

Connor Self (00:24:18):

Yeah. It's always-

Jessica Purks (00:24:18):

... and-

Connor Self (00:24:19):

... hard to move that to the top of the list.

Jessica Purks (00:24:21):

... and you can already see it happening here. We really should have mown this a while ago, but it's starting to like get tall and like curl over the crop, and then like that will kind of cramp the style of the crop that's growing there. There's not a crazy edge effect that you'll see, but if the grass gets really tall and shaggy and starts to fall over into the veggie beds.

Andy Chamberlain (00:24:40):

It looks like good grazing. It's been too long-

Jessica Purks (00:24:43):

Yeah, exactly.

Andy Chamberlain (00:24:43):

... [inaudible 00:24:43] mowing.

Jessica Purks (00:24:43):

The sheep are over there licking their lips looking at this stuff. Yeah. It's like the only green grass on the whole farm because it gets irrigated.

Andy Chamberlain (00:24:51):

Oh, of course.

Jessica Purks (00:24:51):

Yeah, it's pretty-

Andy Chamberlain (00:24:51):

With overhead.

Jessica Purks (00:24:52):

... yeah. It looks pretty lush, but we still like it, and the mower, we have a little electric push mower that like one pass gets it and it's like awesome. It's like really nice to mow and easy to, but we're running into issues with wireworm year over year in blocks that we thought like, "Okay, why is this like still an issue?" We heard like residues often attracting wireworm, and so we thought new blocks that we incorporated a lot of like the pasture sod or like cover crops into, that makes sense. But we're still seeing that and it just sucks to lose so many crops, like storage crops to that pest. So we heard that the grass pathways could be-

Connor Self (00:25:33):

Part of the problem.

Jessica Purks (00:25:33):

... part of the problem.

Connor Self (00:25:35):

It works really well when we're growing cup flowers and you have a nice tall crop and you can run the mower through and not worry about blowing grass into the baby greens. But when you have to get in there with the weed whacker, it's dangerous to the baby greens.

Andy Chamberlain (00:25:51):

Right, and then you're flinging-

Connor Self (00:25:53):

Yeah-

Jessica Purks (00:25:54):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:25:54):

... grass all over it.

Connor Self (00:25:55):

... a\And then it dries on the leaves and it doesn't wash off.

Jessica Purks (00:25:57):

Yeah, and we know other farms will like row cover when they weed whack around their beds, but we just like... I don't know. It seems like-

Connor Self (00:26:04):

It's a lot of work.

Jessica Purks (00:26:04):

... such a pain, and then we're trying to like mow and weed whack the pathways, so you can't have the cover in the way, so-

Andy Chamberlain (00:26:12):

Well, and how's the weed management within there? So is this all paper potted so you get a jumpstart there?

Connor Self (00:26:18):

No. Well, we've been kind of lucky. I mean, it's only the third year. Our annual weed pressure isn't that bad yet-

Andy Chamberlain (00:26:26):

Okay.

Connor Self (00:26:26):

... so when we start a new bed, we don't have a problem direct... This is all direct seeded, so-

Andy Chamberlain (00:26:34):

So this was tarped?

Connor Self (00:26:36):

... this was actually-

Jessica Purks (00:26:38):

These were onions-

Connor Self (00:26:38):

... onions-

Jessica Purks (00:26:38):

... so we flipped it out.

Connor Self (00:26:42):

... and then, yeah, we did a lot of work by hand to just clean them up with rakes and hoes and then direct seeded it.

Jessica Purks (00:26:47):

Yeah, but you can see the quackgrass there. Yeah.

Connor Self (00:26:51):

Yeah-

Jessica Purks (00:26:51):

That's starting-

Connor Self (00:26:52):

... that's so-

Jessica Purks (00:26:52):

... to show up. It's like starting to creep from-

Connor Self (00:26:54):

... creeping.

Jessica Purks (00:26:54):

... like the furthest block every year. It's crept a little further up the field, and that's been a real pain. We're thinking like some beds or blocks that are just really bad with the quack, we're just going to put a tarp over for like a whole season and try to push it back. But yeah, the weed control hasn't been that bad in the areas where the quackgrass isn't an issue.

Andy Chamberlain (00:27:19):

I mean, whatever you're doing looks like it's working pretty good as far as managing these beds. I mean, it looks like a row of lettuce that could be picked, so-

Jessica Purks (00:27:29):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (00:27:29):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:27:31):

... it should be picked.

Jessica Purks (00:27:31):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:27:32):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:27:32):

But yeah, we used the paper pot for a lot, and then we do a lot of direct-seeded baby greens.

Jessica Purks (00:27:41):

And we've been using the EarthWay and the paper pot all along, and then this summer we finally bit the bullet and bought the Jang-

Connor Self (00:27:50):

Yep.

Jessica Purks (00:27:50):

... which we're still working out the kinks.

Connor Self (00:27:52):

Yeah. I think this was all Jang seated-

Jessica Purks (00:27:54):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:27:55):

... and then, yeah, we also got one of those Greens Harvesters, so that's what we're fine-tuning in for next year.

Andy Chamberlain (00:28:05):

It's pretty awesome when you don't have quackgrass.

Connor Self (00:28:06):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:28:06):

Yeah, yeah.

Connor Self (00:28:06):

When you have to pick out the grass afterwards, it's not as fun.

Andy Chamberlain (00:28:11):

Uh-huh.

Jessica Purks (00:28:12):

Yeah, and we should have said, too, our focus here on the farm is mostly veggies, like 90% veggies, mixed veg, and like 10%-ish flowers, and some herbs, too, mixed in there, included with the veggies. The veggies that we grow are mostly baby greens and like roots and tomatoes. Cherry tomatoes are a really big crop for us. Slicers, obviously not like a real win. We do not take the slicing tomatoes very seriously and-

Connor Self (00:28:39):

Well, we are in the first week of October.

Jessica Purks (00:28:41):

Yeah, yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:28:42):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:28:42):

They're ugly now, but that's how it goes.

Jessica Purks (00:28:45):

But yeah, we do well with the cherry tomatoes and all the baby greens and our microgreens. So those crops are ones that people are starting to like recognize us and like come to us for over and over again, and we're able to... We've dialed in this season really like awesome consistency for all of our top crops, like having them week over week, which feels like a success.

Connor Self (00:29:06):

Yeah, and then we do some roots, beets and carrots and radish and turnip, and that's the majority. I think we're narrowing our crop list every year.

Andy Chamberlain (00:29:20):

Yeah. Yep.

Connor Self (00:29:20):

We do some fun experiments. Cabbages, this was like a fun variety of cabbage from Fruition Seeds called Mermaid's Tale that actually we're going to... We planted it super late, but we put it in the tunnel because we want to try to save seed from it and have it again next year. Fruition Seeds stopped selling seeds-

Andy Chamberlain (00:29:46):

Oh, okay.

Connor Self (00:29:47):

... last year, so we figured we'd try to save our own-

Jessica Purks (00:29:50):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:29:52):

... and yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:29:55):

I think they're heading up. Oh yeah.

Connor Self (00:30:01):

They're going to do something maybe.

Jessica Purks (00:30:01):

You see a head there, right?

Connor Self (00:30:01):

They'll make a seed-

Jessica Purks (00:30:01):

[inaudible 00:30:02].

Connor Self (00:30:02):

... eventually.

Andy Chamberlain (00:30:02):

Tell me it's coming.

Connor Self (00:30:05):

We know it's late, but they'll be fine.

Jessica Purks (00:30:07):

Yeah,

Andy Chamberlain (00:30:08):

I have some Indian corn like that. It's like you're going to dry down, right? Come on.

Connor Self (00:30:12):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:30:16):

Positive vibes. Positive vibes.

Connor Self (00:30:18):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:30:21):

Yeah. We're going to transplant some parsley in there for overwinter parsley. We'll have these leaks in here and who knows what these cabbages will do. Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:30:31):

Haven't given up yet.

Jessica Purks (00:30:31):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:30:33):

Leaks are looking good.

Jessica Purks (00:30:34):

Yeah. Here's a cool little thingy we came up with this summer with the cat tunnels closing the doors and securing them has always been an ongoing challenge-

Andy Chamberlain (00:30:42):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:30:43):

... And they're-

Andy Chamberlain (00:30:45):

Oh.

Jessica Purks (00:30:45):

... scissor-style doors and before we had like a bolt that would go through both of them, like an eye bolt.

Connor Self (00:30:52):

Now we just lock them in place with these Lincoln Logs, two by fours, two by sixes.

Jessica Purks (00:30:59):

Yeah, this like wood thing is anchored into the ground with some rebar, and then we can open one door and it doesn't go back and forth a lot. It doesn't go like front and back or left to right. That was always an issue, so-

Connor Self (00:31:12):

Yeah, we wanted as little framing on the end walls as possible because we keep them open all season, but then when we move the tunnels, it's one less thing we have to rebuild.

Andy Chamberlain (00:31:27):

Did you see that? Somebody else or is that your own ingenuity?

Connor Self (00:31:30):

The scissor doors, I mean, the style of doors we definitely just saw on YouTube, but it took us a while to figure out how to keep them closed like this.

Jessica Purks (00:31:41):

Mm-hmm.

Andy Chamberlain (00:31:41):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:31:42):

We'd seen something similar to it on another farm we worked on, but not quite this, because with this type of door, there's a lot of blowing in, and if we want to have crops coming all the way to the end without like this little edge, like the sacrifice zone that's like in every tunnel. This-

Connor Self (00:32:01):

Keeps the doors-

Jessica Purks (00:32:02):

... it keeps the doors-

Connor Self (00:32:03):

... anchored.

Jessica Purks (00:32:03):

... in place and they won't blow in and like hit all those cabbages and carrots and fennel and stuff and like knock them back, which is an issue we were having a lot with the scissor door before. You can also see up there are like 10-foot T-posts left over from our deer fence project. They've been a nice tool for our trellis infrastructure in here, so those are just like going across and we tie up the Hortonova netting to them. We also tie up the tomatoes to them.

Andy Chamberlain (00:32:34):

The what netting?

Jessica Purks (00:32:35):

The Hortonova.

Andy Chamberlain (00:32:37):

Haven't heard of that.

Connor Self (00:32:38):

Like this-

Andy Chamberlain (00:32:38):

Oh, okay.

Connor Self (00:32:40):

... plastic mesh.

Jessica Purks (00:32:41):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:32:41):

Plastic mesh.

Jessica Purks (00:32:41):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:32:41):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:32:42):

So it's, yeah, what we use for peas, and then in the flowers it gets used horizontally to-

Andy Chamberlain (00:32:49):

Oh, okay. Yeah, yep.

Connor Self (00:32:50):

... to hold things.

Jessica Purks (00:32:50):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:32:51):

I know what you mean now.

Jessica Purks (00:32:52):

What do you call it?

Andy Chamberlain (00:32:54):

I don't know. Flower netting is probably what I would call it, not the right term for it.

Jessica Purks (00:33:00):

So every block is the same. It's 10 beds or 10 or 11 beds, and if it has an 11th bed, it's a dedicated perennial flower bed. But we always grow 10 beds of vegetables in each block and they're about 50 feet. They're 50 feet long by 40 feet wide. They have four sprinklers across the block and every bed is irrigatable, and we are able to pool water from the Cold River on the edge of the property and have water on every single bed.

Andy Chamberlain (00:33:30):

Wow.

Connor Self (00:33:30):

Yeah, it's pretty awesome.

Andy Chamberlain (00:33:31):

All at the same time?

Jessica Purks (00:33:32):

All at the same time.

Connor Self (00:33:33):

Yeah, with just a little Harbor Freight gas pump.

Jessica Purks (00:33:36):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:33:37):

Nice.

Jessica Purks (00:33:37):

Yeah, and we just calculated today, we're like at an acre-

Andy Chamberlain (00:33:41):

Okay. I was wondering.

Jessica Purks (00:33:41):

... of all-

Connor Self (00:33:41):

If you count like-

Jessica Purks (00:33:41):

... of our blocks.

Connor Self (00:33:43):

... the blocks, there's like 23 of them now or something, so each is about 2,000 square feet.

Jessica Purks (00:33:49):

Including the pathways. Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:33:52):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (00:33:52):

Yeah-

Jessica Purks (00:33:52):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:33:52):

... and then we left really big drive lanes, even though we don't have tractors-

Andy Chamberlain (00:33:56):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:33:56):

... because we probably want to put some hedge row in the middle here, some kind of even-

Jessica Purks (00:34:02):

Blueberries.

Connor Self (00:34:03):

... yeah, fruit bushes or trees or pollinator plantings and-

Andy Chamberlain (00:34:08):

Keeps your options open.

Jessica Purks (00:34:09):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (00:34:10):

... yeah-

Jessica Purks (00:34:10):

Yeah, and-

Connor Self (00:34:10):

... and every now and then we bring the car in and we need to harvest something big or-

Andy Chamberlain (00:34:14):

Right.

Connor Self (00:34:15):

... it's easy to drive around.

Jessica Purks (00:34:17):

Or to unload the new tunnel, so two more tunnels are waiting in the wing here.

Andy Chamberlain (00:34:21):

Yeah, I call that elbow room.

Jessica Purks (00:34:22):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:34:24):

Yeah, you don't regret having space.

Jessica Purks (00:34:25):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:34:26):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:34:26):

Like you said, just to pull the car in and unload something.

Jessica Purks (00:34:28):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:34:29):

Right, but we don't have a tractor and we don't have any kind of motorized farm vehicle other than the cars, so-

Jessica Purks (00:34:41):

Oh, what about the PCS?

Connor Self (00:34:43):

Well, no. We want like a golf cart or a side-by-side or anything.

Jessica Purks (00:34:46):

Not yet. I'm fighting for a golf cart to deal with that.

Connor Self (00:34:48):

We pull everything with those hand carts.

Jessica Purks (00:34:50):

Yeah. Yeah. Human-powered. We've been farming since 2013 on other people's veggie farms. Certified organic veggie farms, all tractor based, like tillage, plastic, mulch, that whole thing, and I think by the end of that, we were just like, "I don't know." We were really inspired by the Lean Market gardens that were human-powered or just BCS tillage-

Connor Self (00:35:18):

Like-

Jessica Purks (00:35:18):

... and-

Connor Self (00:35:19):

... super small-

Jessica Purks (00:35:20):

... super small.

Connor Self (00:35:22):

... and doing things by hand because you can actually be more intensive and still have a lot of people working on a small amount of acreage.

Andy Chamberlain (00:35:31):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (00:35:31):

So we visited some farms like that, and then sort of came up with what we wanted to do here, but...

Andy Chamberlain (00:35:41):

So how many people do you have out here with you?

Connor Self (00:35:43):

Yeah, so this year we had, for the bulk of the season, we had like one-and-a-half full-time equivalents, but split over like five people, so just a lot of part-timers. A lot of people that just come like one day a week or two half days a week, and it's fun to have a big crew on some days and then other days just have the place to ourselves-

Andy Chamberlain (00:36:08):

Yep.

Connor Self (00:36:09):

... so that was a big step up. Last year, we just had one person doing eight hours or 10 hours.

Andy Chamberlain (00:36:17):

Are you guys full-time on the farm?

Connor Self (00:36:19):

I'm full-time on the farm and just-

Jessica Purks (00:36:21):

Full-time and a half. Each of us.

Andy Chamberlain (00:36:23):

Yeah. Yeah. Right. What's full-time for a farmer? For the owners, understood.

Connor Self (00:36:27):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:36:28):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:36:30):

Just as full-time on the farm plus 25 hours at Acorn.

Andy Chamberlain (00:36:35):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:36:35):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:36:37):

No, I know. I hate that. I hate it when people ask me that question because it's like, "Yeah," I'm, like you said, I'm time and a half and part-time pay because we're three years in and we're trying to build infrastructure and-

Jessica Purks (00:36:52):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:36:53):

Right.

Andy Chamberlain (00:36:53):

... and it's hard.

Jessica Purks (00:36:55):

It's hard. It's hard right now. Yeah, real growing pain, and the spring, I think we're finally getting to that point where we can afford more labor, and like this will be the year for the first time that Connor will take-

Connor Self (00:37:05):

[inaudible 00:37:06].

Jessica Purks (00:37:05):

... home some money from the farm, a little bit.

Connor Self (00:37:06):

A little bit. Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:37:06):

A little.

Jessica Purks (00:37:07):

A little bit. I'll be a volunteer forever-

Connor Self (00:37:14):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:37:14):

... but in the start of the season, in the spring when we were starting to hire folks, we thought that it would be more resilient for us to bring on a lot of part-time folks so there would always be a backup person. Everybody could do a little extra if we needed to if somebody was out or sick or injured or something, and we could have like a sweet team of like five people in one day and like mob big projects. Really, it's been awesome, but the drawback we've discovered now that we're getting to the end of the season is that folks didn't gain enough experience, like cumulative experience over the season. If they came in one day a week, they might not see that... If they weren't on the same task every week, they would like lose-

Connor Self (00:37:51):

A lot of retraining.

Jessica Purks (00:37:52):

... that skill.

Andy Chamberlain (00:37:54):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:37:54):

It felt like we were retraining a lot just to keep people up to speed on tasks. So there were a few tasks that we really nailed down that everybody can do, but then there's a lot that it's always like, "Okay, we're all relearning this again because you haven't done it in a week or two."

Connor Self (00:38:08):

Yeah, or we like to change things up for people and give them different things, but then, yeah [inaudible 00:38:14]-

Andy Chamberlain (00:38:13):

And you're always working with them-

Connor Self (00:38:15):

... it's a month.

Andy Chamberlain (00:38:15):

.., and retrain them?

Connor Self (00:38:17):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:38:17):

Yes.

Connor Self (00:38:17):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:38:17):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:38:17):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:38:18):

You can't divide and conquer as easily.

Jessica Purks (00:38:21):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:38:21):

We might have set it up differently next year so we get maybe... Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:38:26):

Less people doing more time.

Connor Self (00:38:28):

Yeah. Two people doing half time or...

Jessica Purks (00:38:31):

Yeah, because we can't do it alone either. We definitely need the help.

Connor Self (00:38:36):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:38:36):

Right.

Jessica Purks (00:38:37):

Geez.

Connor Self (00:38:37):

Yeah, that's been a big one. Yeah. It makes it so much more enjoyable to have other people here, too. You just get so much more done and it's more fun.

Jessica Purks (00:38:43):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:38:44):

Mm-hmm.

Jessica Purks (00:38:47):

When we were farming on other farms, we always love that part of that-

Connor Self (00:38:50):

Having a big crew.

Jessica Purks (00:38:50):

... dynamic-

Connor Self (00:38:51):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:38:51):

... that like working on a crew and like building friendships so quickly with people and like working through the good days and the bad days together to get stuff done and just... It's a really cool thing that can happen on a farm alongside the people that you work with. We're excited that we could start to build that here this year with more folks being on the team. Yeah, this year we're growing more storage crops just to enter some wholesale demand. We won't do a winter farmers market, but we wanted to be able to offer more storage crops to our wholesale customers through the winter. So we have beets and carrots and grew a bunch of daikons and potatoes-

Connor Self (00:39:29):

And onions.

Jessica Purks (00:39:31):

... a lot of onions.

Connor Self (00:39:33):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:39:34):

Not too much of those things and no cabbage. We're still wary of some of those like really bottom dollar storage crops like potatoes and cabbage, but we're not [inaudible 00:39:43]-

Connor Self (00:39:43):

Onions, surprisingly, whenever we do the math, it feels like it definitely pays its way. People will pay good money for onions.

Jessica Purks (00:39:52):

And we paper pot our onions. They're like the easiest crop for us to grow. What, it took you like half an hour to plant out a block of onions?

Connor Self (00:40:02):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:40:03):

Oh man, they grow great here, so we want to double down on those next year and grow a lot more.

Connor Self (00:40:11):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:40:13):

We haven't really crunched the numbers on all the crops and like actually the cost of any of them really. Maybe the microgreens. The microgreens are-

Connor Self (00:40:21):

We look at like revenue per bed-

Jessica Purks (00:40:22):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:40:23):

... and the time spent in the bed, but...

Andy Chamberlain (00:40:28):

Start broad and then whittle it down by what you like to do first-

Connor Self (00:40:31):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:40:31):

... whittle it down what you have to market for second-

Jessica Purks (00:40:33):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:40:35):

... and then pencil out what's really turning them, making the money.

Jessica Purks (00:40:38):

Mm-hmm-

Connor Self (00:40:39):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:40:39):

... and pretty much every year that we've been here, like year one was this first row of beds of like seven or so, or blocks rather, and then year two was this row of blocks. Then, this year we broke into row C, and how many more do we have over here?

Connor Self (00:40:54):

Yeah, so now there's like 23, and then I think we have room to put in a fourth row.

Jessica Purks (00:41:00):

The first year we were here, we saw flooding, or the anniversary of our first year here rather. We had flooding from the Cold River, that July 10th that everywhere flooded, and the water came up.

Connor Self (00:41:13):

Well, yeah, spilled over the banks right where our pump is and then sort of filtered through the deer fence and into part of our field, but-

Jessica Purks (00:41:24):

Maybe like 50 feet away from the back edge of this block. So we've been definitely prioritizing this like high grown over here. You see the slope, right?

Andy Chamberlain (00:41:34):

Yeah. Yeah.

Connor Self (00:41:34):

Yeah. It's probably like the flattest field in Shrewsbury.

Jessica Purks (00:41:39):

Oh yeah, for sure.

Andy Chamberlain (00:41:40):

It's kind of like a nice gentle grade for drainage.

Jessica Purks (00:41:42):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:41:42):

That's exactly what it is.

Jessica Purks (00:41:43):

Yeah. Oh, it's exceptionally well-drained. Yeah. A little too well-drained, but yeah, I think we'll start branching out over there, and we also want to put more perennials over there like blueberry. Our blueberry planting is kind of slated for that area, so if the water does come in in a future flood event, like they can go into it.

Andy Chamberlain (00:41:57):

Yeah, so it looks like you've got space for a row D-

Jessica Purks (00:42:00):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (00:42:00):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:42:01):

... the other 50 foot of beds of the quicker, less risky should it flood-

Jessica Purks (00:42:06):

Exactly.

Andy Chamberlain (00:42:06):

... kind of.

Jessica Purks (00:42:06):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:42:07):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:42:07):

We'll put our butternuts there. Yeah.

Connor Self (00:42:09):

Yeah, we'll flood hearty-

Jessica Purks (00:42:10):

Yeah. No.

Connor Self (00:42:10):

... with those.

Jessica Purks (00:42:12):

Yeah, I think we'd put like the baby greens. We learned that from the Intervale this year about how they are kind of changing their crop plan in those more vulnerable sites on the farm. They're putting those like high turnover quick crops and like having some wait in the wing in the greenhouse in case a flood event does happen, they can just tear out and replace, so-

Andy Chamberlain (00:42:31):

Oh, that'd be interesting.

Jessica Purks (00:42:32):

... yeah, so that would be the move for those.

Andy Chamberlain (00:42:34):

Keep some backup reserves.

Jessica Purks (00:42:36):

Yeah. The greenhouse is so big, and we've got plenty of them.

Andy Chamberlain (00:42:40):

Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, you got plenty. Everybody has plenty of greenhouses.

Connor Self (00:42:45):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:42:45):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:42:45):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:42:45):

That's not the problem.

Connor Self (00:42:47):

Well, as long as the flood comes on July 10th every year and we can plan for it.

Jessica Purks (00:42:51):

Yeah. Well, it is. Yeah.

Connor Self (00:42:56):

Yeah. Yeah, it didn't flood this year or last year. So we got really worried after that flooded the first year and talked to a bunch of people, but since the water really stayed on the edge of the field and has a place to drain out through a culvert, everybody was like, "Well, it didn't really mess you up in '23, so you're probably good for a while."

Andy Chamberlain (00:43:19):

Right, right.

Connor Self (00:43:19):

It didn't make it to the majority of our gardens, and it has a way of draining off the land without interfering with anything, so we've been feeling better and better about it. It's a little unnerving the first year, but the soil drains so well that we never have muddy spots or don't have trouble getting machinery in here because we don't want machinery, so it's really great in a rainy year. The only problem is it drains all our nitrogen out. Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:43:54):

And that's been the challenge, I think, is just we've been-

Connor Self (00:43:57):

Building fertility because it's been pretty depleted, just being hayed for so long.

Andy Chamberlain (00:44:02):

Hmm.

Jessica Purks (00:44:03):

And we've been pretty lighthanded with fertilizer and we're realizing that's really the ticket to success on a sandy soil. It's just dumping it on.

Connor Self (00:44:12):

Yeah-

Jessica Purks (00:44:14):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:44:15):

... and once we have more blocks, the goal is to cover crop more and we can take some out of production each year and put them in cover crops, so-

Andy Chamberlain (00:44:26):

Are you doing much for cover cropping now? Or-

Connor Self (00:44:28):

We're going to put like probably four or five blocks in a late zone rye. It's getting down to the wire here, but I think we're going to get a few spots of rye in, and we did some last year and experimented with crimping it and tarping it and mixed success. It crimped fine and it tarped fine. It killed the rye, but when it came time to plant into it was like going to be not good enough mulch to just plant straight into it by hand, and so then we ended up raking it off and putting it in the pathways and it looked nice.

Andy Chamberlain (00:45:14):

Yeah, I think-

Jessica Purks (00:45:14):

And the crops actually look really good down there because it looked like a beach down there. When we sewed that cover crop, I was like, "Oh my gosh, this soil looks horrible, there's like no life here," but actually the crops have been looking pretty good. Yeah, we sneak in a few beds, a few blocks every year in cover crop with like a pinot and we did some crimson clover last year and-

Connor Self (00:45:37):

Yeah-

Jessica Purks (00:45:37):

... yeah.

Connor Self (00:45:37):

... buckwheat.

Jessica Purks (00:45:38):

Buckwheat we'll sneak in. Yeah, and the dream was always like having like a third of the farm and cover crop at any given point, but it's like the demand is still there. We can just keep growing more and more, but I think we're realizing we need a little bit more labor to have like speedier turnover, like this kind of stuff is already happening.

Connor Self (00:45:57):

Like something-

Jessica Purks (00:45:58):

... and like-

Connor Self (00:45:58):

... is done and then it just sits-

Jessica Purks (00:46:00):

... it's a failure.

Connor Self (00:46:00):

... there.

Jessica Purks (00:46:01):

Right? This bed that hasn't been-

Connor Self (00:46:03):

No.

Jessica Purks (00:46:03):

... flipped as soon as we harvest it. Yeah, so-

Connor Self (00:46:05):

Or yeah, like baby kale, it just got picked and then sat there because we didn't have time to replant it.

Jessica Purks (00:46:13):

Yeah. That's the goal for next year. Just like to see much quicker turnover over these beds. They will get eventually turned over, but like we don't-

Connor Self (00:46:19):

Like on the same footprint-

Jessica Purks (00:46:21):

... want them to [inaudible 00:46:22].

Connor Self (00:46:22):

... we could be producing more if we just had more labor and just [inaudible 00:46:24].

Jessica Purks (00:46:23):

Yeah, the labor. Just need more labor.

Andy Chamberlain (00:46:28):

Well, what do you mean? You're not bursting with motivation this time of year to just flipping stuff?

Jessica Purks (00:46:34):

I've checked out, and we have volunteers help out on the farm in addition to paid labor and we also host Woofers, which has been really fun. We've done a lot of WWOOFing. Are you familiar with WWOOF?

Andy Chamberlain (00:46:49):

I'm familiar, yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:46:50):

Yeah, and we've done a lot of that in our past and are excited to be on the other side of the coin and host people for the first time. We get so many people that have never been on a farm working or volunteering like a day in their life and get here and just like honestly hit the ground running with like a great eagerness and curiosity to learn and like really... We've been so impressed with the folks that have come and just like picked up skills and like-

Connor Self (00:47:17):

And they want to work.

Jessica Purks (00:47:17):

... they flow the process.

Andy Chamberlain (00:47:19):

Well, I guess if they're part of the WWOOFing, they want to learn.

Jessica Purks (00:47:22):

They want to learn.

Connor Self (00:47:22):

Yeah, they [inaudible 00:47:23]-

Andy Chamberlain (00:47:22):

Which is huge.

Jessica Purks (00:47:22):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:47:24):

Motivated and work above and beyond what we ask of them and sometimes harder than our employees, and we'll do more of that next year.

Jessica Purks (00:47:35):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:47:36):

We host some in the house with us, so we do it for a little bit and then we take a break. We don't want house guests-

Andy Chamberlain (00:47:42):

[inaudible 00:47:43].

Connor Self (00:47:42):

... all the time.

Andy Chamberlain (00:47:43):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:47:43):

You got to let the kitchen get a little messy.

Connor Self (00:47:45):

Yeah, but it is fun, and I feel like we've inspired some people that went on to work on other farms and-

Andy Chamberlain (00:47:53):

That's good.

Connor Self (00:47:53):

... yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:47:54):

Hey, here's the rye.

Andy Chamberlain (00:47:55):

Uh-huh.

Connor Self (00:47:56):

Yeah, rye-

Jessica Purks (00:47:56):

These two blocks.

Connor Self (00:47:56):

... raked into the-

Andy Chamberlain (00:47:57):

Yeah, this is pretty. Yeah.

Connor Self (00:48:00):

It's probably better than the grass for some things.

Andy Chamberlain (00:48:06):

Are these late sunflowers?

Connor Self (00:48:06):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:48:08):

Yeah. They're going to do something in... See the buds?

Andy Chamberlain (00:48:12):

They're coming. They're trying.

Connor Self (00:48:13):

They're going to be mini sunflowers.

Jessica Purks (00:48:16):

So after last fall's really mild fall, when did we get a frost, in November? I had-

Connor Self (00:48:19):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:48:20):

... I had sunflowers this time that matured and were marketable and harvestable. I was like, "Oh, man, I'm going to do that again this year," so-

Connor Self (00:48:26):

It's worth the risk to try.

Jessica Purks (00:48:27):

... yeah. Oh yeah.

Connor Self (00:48:28):

We just kept planting them every week, and so I don't know.

Jessica Purks (00:48:30):

We paper pot these guys, so it's effortless. They're six-inch chains. This is a cash crop. The sunflowers are awesome.

Andy Chamberlain (00:48:40):

Do you find there's a season that people like sunflowers or they buy sunflowers all year round, if they could?

Jessica Purks (00:48:47):

Well, they probably would buy them all year round if they could, but they like them all summer long. I mean, we took bouquets every week to market and they [inaudible 00:48:56]-

Connor Self (00:48:55):

Kind of a like a tomato.

Jessica Purks (00:48:56):

... yeah.

Connor Self (00:48:56):

People take a farm fresh tomato anytime.

Jessica Purks (00:48:58):

Yeah, and they're great add-ins on the mixed bouquets, too. You know, there's something there. I mean, they might be a little small, but-

Andy Chamberlain (00:49:06):

Hey.

Jessica Purks (00:49:08):

... probably by-

Andy Chamberlain (00:49:09):

It's October. If somebody wants a flower, that's what you're getting.

Jessica Purks (00:49:11):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:49:11):

It's small.

Connor Self (00:49:11):

Yeah, exactly.

Jessica Purks (00:49:13):

Yeah. They really do start to get stunted this time of the year and they don't get as vigorous. The ones in peak summer are like up to here and awesome.

Andy Chamberlain (00:49:21):

Are these Kwik Hoops?

Jessica Purks (00:49:23):

These-

Connor Self (00:49:24):

These are-

Jessica Purks (00:49:24):

... these are pre-Kwik Hoops. We imported these from New Zealand-

Andy Chamberlain (00:49:27):

Okay.

Jessica Purks (00:49:28):

... before-

Connor Self (00:49:28):

This is what people were using in-

Jessica Purks (00:49:29):

... they were available domestically.

Connor Self (00:49:30):

... when we were WWOOFing in New Zealand, and yeah, we liked them just because we didn't have to have sandbags and hadn't seen them on the market before, but I don't know if anybody's making them now in the U.S. It probably will be soon if they haven't started yet.

Jessica Purks (00:49:49):

But it's the same concept, right?

Connor Self (00:49:50):

But yeah, you-

Jessica Purks (00:49:51):

There's two pieces and...

Connor Self (00:49:52):

... put it over and then the wire locks into the channel and-

Jessica Purks (00:49:56):

Yeah, and it's great.

Connor Self (00:49:56):

... goes through this little hole.

Jessica Purks (00:49:57):

You can slide the fabric partially open or all the way down if you just want a little bit of ventilation.

Andy Chamberlain (00:50:05):

Do you like them?

Jessica Purks (00:50:06):

Yeah. Yeah. The hard part for us is where the soil's compacted, it's hard to get them in the ground-

Andy Chamberlain (00:50:17):

Okay.

Jessica Purks (00:50:17):

... a little bit.

Connor Self (00:50:17):

If you hit a rock, you end up kinking the aluminum and then-

Jessica Purks (00:50:17):

But if-

Connor Self (00:50:17):

... it's-

Jessica Purks (00:50:18):

... the soil's loose, it's great. They work great, and with like snow on them and stuff, and we can use row cover or this is like a clear shade cloth that we also got shipped in from New Zealand with them. This is kind of a system that they were selling at the time that also offers frost protection or some shade protection or some protection, and that's nice because the wire can go straight through that fabric. The row cover, obviously you don't want to puncture the row cover or like a protect net with the wire, but you get a nice skirt with this stuff.

Andy Chamberlain (00:50:50):

Meaning it can flare out at the bottom?

Connor Self (00:50:51):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:50:52):

Exactly.

Connor Self (00:50:52):

You just poke it through and leave a few inches on the bottom.

Jessica Purks (00:50:54):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:50:56):

Hmm.

Connor Self (00:50:56):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:50:57):

Yeah, so is it Conor Crickmore that's selling these now, the Kwik Hoops?

Connor Self (00:51:00):

Well, yeah, he's-

Jessica Purks (00:51:01):

Some version.

Andy Chamberlain (00:51:01):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:51:02):

... got a different system, I think, with bungees.

Andy Chamberlain (00:51:05):

Oh yeah, yep. Are all your cat tunnels the same model?

Connor Self (00:51:09):

Yep, yep. Gothic Pro I think it's called, 16 by 50. Although when I went to order two more this year, they made them 16 by 48, and I said, "We want all ours to be interchangeable." So they gave me an extra hoop and we're going to make it work, but they changed their sizes a little bit. But yeah, it works out perfectly for four beds on the inside and...

Andy Chamberlain (00:51:42):

They feel bigger than my memory.

Jessica Purks (00:51:46):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:51:47):

I think, yeah, they only started making 16-foot a few years ago.

Jessica Purks (00:51:51):

And the peach-

Connor Self (00:51:51):

They used to be narrow.

Jessica Purks (00:51:52):

... also gives the illusion of more volume because the old school ones-

Connor Self (00:51:58):

They were a little taller.

Jessica Purks (00:51:59):

... yeah. Yeah.

Connor Self (00:51:59):

Yeah, and then, people-

Jessica Purks (00:51:59):

Purpose-

Connor Self (00:52:00):

... used to do sort of like the sausage end wall, and then you're always ducking under it, and it's nice to be able to walk right in upright. The outside beds do get a little cramped for standing up, but...

Andy Chamberlain (00:52:15):

Do you find you like them for some crops more than others? Or, I mean, I see everything from greens to tomatoes, so-

Connor Self (00:52:22):

Yeah. I mean, that's pretty much what they're for. They're great in the winter for greens. They're not as much of a... Because of their size, I think we don't get as much temperature buffering as a bigger house, obviously-

Andy Chamberlain (00:52:39):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:52:39):

... so the middle beds do better than the outside beds, but we just sort of planned for that. And then the tomatoes, yeah, they're great in the summer for tomatoes. We do snap peas in one of them in the spring. That was awesome.

Jessica Purks (00:52:56):

The flowers haven't earned the privilege yet of being in a tunnel.

Connor Self (00:53:00):

Well, now that we have six, I think.

Jessica Purks (00:53:03):

I'm not bitter.

Connor Self (00:53:03):

Yeah. There's a little bit of tension.

Jessica Purks (00:53:07):

Now there's six.

Connor Self (00:53:08):

Flower/veggies tension.

Andy Chamberlain (00:53:10):

Maybe he'll spare half of one.

Connor Self (00:53:12):

Yeah, yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:53:15):

If only those short little sunflowers had a little extra.

Jessica Purks (00:53:18):

Seriously.

Andy Chamberlain (00:53:22):

And you got deer fence all around that whole area?

Connor Self (00:53:23):

Yeah, first year we put up however many acres of deer fence and haven't had any problems with deer-

Andy Chamberlain (00:53:33):

Was that an-

Connor Self (00:53:33):

... and we're-

Andy Chamberlain (00:53:33):

... out-of-pocket expense or did you get a grant?

Connor Self (00:53:35):

No, we paid for that one-

Andy Chamberlain (00:53:37):

Wow.

Connor Self (00:53:37):

... and I think it wasn't that bad. I mean, the plastic netting is cheap. The big expense is all the metal posts and-

Jessica Purks (00:53:44):

Those doors.

Connor Self (00:53:46):

... yeah, and then we bought the door kits from DeerBusters or whatever it's called, but...

Jessica Purks (00:53:52):

And Connor and his dad did all the work.

Connor Self (00:53:53):

We pounded them in by hand.

Jessica Purks (00:53:55):

Hoo wee.

Connor Self (00:53:55):

Yeah, and yeah, it's no complaints. It's easy.

Jessica Purks (00:54:00):

Yeah. The deer only get in when you leave the doors open.

Andy Chamberlain (00:54:04):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Connor Self (00:54:04):

No, we haven't had a single deer in there.

Andy Chamberlain (00:54:06):

But other than that, it's been holding up pretty good-

Connor Self (00:54:07):

Oh yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:54:07):

... the plastic net?

Connor Self (00:54:07):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:54:08):

Oh yeah.

Connor Self (00:54:09):

Yeah. I think it's rated like 10 years or something, as long as you don't hit it too much with the weed whacker.

Jessica Purks (00:54:15):

The snow did rip it down a bit. There were sections-

Connor Self (00:54:17):

Oh-

Jessica Purks (00:54:17):

... of spray.

Connor Self (00:54:18):

... well, it's only tied up to them with zip ties-

Andy Chamberlain (00:54:21):

Oh yeah.

Connor Self (00:54:21):

... and so when you get a real wet snow, it sticks to it and it weights enough if it ices up to really pull it down, but it's because the zip ties wear out quicker than the fence does.

Jessica Purks (00:54:34):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:54:34):

Right, right.

Jessica Purks (00:54:34):

It was a quick fix in the spring.

Connor Self (00:54:37):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:54:37):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:54:37):

Just put it back together.

Andy Chamberlain (00:54:37):

Do you like that? A toolless fix?

Jessica Purks (00:54:37):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:54:38):

Yeah. Yeah, I had built one like that on another farm previously, and so I sort of knew the system.

Jessica Purks (00:54:46):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:54:47):

Who painted this mural on your barn?

Jessica Purks (00:54:49):

Neither of us.

Andy Chamberlain (00:54:50):

No? Was it there?

Jessica Purks (00:54:53):

No, no. So do you know Dan of Wood's Market Garden?

Andy Chamberlain (00:54:57):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:54:57):

His cousin is a muralist and visits family in New England every summer. She lives in Mexico City, but she did a mural at Wood's Market Garden and I messaged her. I was like, "Are you still local? Can you come do one on our barn?" And she came up and did this in two and a half days.

Andy Chamberlain (00:55:17):

Wow.

Jessica Purks (00:55:17):

I know, and then we had her out this-

Connor Self (00:55:19):

She did this one last year, and then she did the one on the garage this year, and then, yeah, we're just-

Jessica Purks (00:55:26):

Yeah, she did.

Connor Self (00:55:26):

... going to have her keep coming back if she wants to-

Jessica Purks (00:55:28):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:55:29):

... and just keep putting murals out there.

Jessica Purks (00:55:31):

Yeah, she dis this-

Connor Self (00:55:31):

It's just-

Jessica Purks (00:55:31):

... sweet one this summer.

Connor Self (00:55:32):

[inaudible 00:55:33].

Andy Chamberlain (00:55:33):

Oh yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:55:34):

Yeah. Yeah, I'm [inaudible 00:55:35].

Connor Self (00:55:35):

I'm going to show you the wash/pack.

Andy Chamberlain (00:55:36):

Oh.

Jessica Purks (00:55:38):

So the previous owners already framed out a wall here-

Andy Chamberlain (00:55:42):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:55:43):

... and they had hopes of putting like a kitchen and bathroom in here and turning the upstairs into like a apartment, I think, but they didn't actually do that, unfortunately, but also works out. So when we saw it, we're like, "Oh, this is like a turnkey wash/pack." There was a frost-free there, so got some sinks and ran some PEX tubing and put in the world's smallest walk-in cooler to start, and we got a bigger one that's like three times bigger than that around the corner. Yeah, it was pretty awesome and like so much light.

Connor Self (00:56:18):

Then, we put up the washable walls that need to be washed and-

Andy Chamberlain (00:56:25):

Backsplash and Trusscore.

Connor Self (00:56:25):

... yeah, Trusscore.

Jessica Purks (00:56:26):

Yeah, exactly. It's like everything is a splash zone. It's all good. It's small. I think some days it feels pretty tight, especially when we're trying to do a lot of greens and then also roots. So that's the wall that we'd want to put in a door into our kitchen-

Connor Self (00:56:40):

Put a door through the back and then-

Jessica Purks (00:56:42):

... washer-

Andy Chamberlain (00:56:42):

Oh yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:56:42):

... extension area-

Connor Self (00:56:43):

... attach the [inaudible 00:56:44] too.

Jessica Purks (00:56:44):

... for like a spray zone for roots and stuff.

Andy Chamberlain (00:56:46):

Yep.

Jessica Purks (00:56:46):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:56:47):

Well, and then maybe the walk-in could be outside on the edge of that space-

Jessica Purks (00:56:53):

Yes, yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:56:53):

... because that would free up a lot of floor space-

Jessica Purks (00:56:55):

Yeah-

Andy Chamberlain (00:56:56):

... in here.

Jessica Purks (00:56:56):

... for sure, and just like two people could pick that up and move it.

Andy Chamberlain (00:56:59):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:57:02):

Yeah, that's a good idea, and then we've been using this Panda. This is like a-

Andy Chamberlain (00:57:08):

Portable-

Jessica Purks (00:57:08):

... portable washing machine.

Andy Chamberlain (00:57:10):

Oh yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:57:11):

This works great for greens spinning.

Andy Chamberlain (00:57:16):

Just-

Jessica Purks (00:57:16):

We just put it on the-

Andy Chamberlain (00:57:16):

... you just add this.

Jessica Purks (00:57:16):

... spin cycle. Is it clean in there?

Andy Chamberlain (00:57:19):

Well, it's got greens-

Connor Self (00:57:19):

It's got greens-

Andy Chamberlain (00:57:20):

... in there.

Jessica Purks (00:57:20):

Oh, okay. Good, good.

Speaker 4 (00:57:21):

That might go.

Jessica Purks (00:57:22):

Yeah. Perfect.

Speaker 4 (00:57:22):

[inaudible 00:57:23].

Jessica Purks (00:57:23):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:57:24):

Micros, you're using a mesh bag insert?

Connor Self (00:57:27):

Yep-

Jessica Purks (00:57:28):

Yep.

Connor Self (00:57:28):

... and this one has a spin cycle, so you can just-

Andy Chamberlain (00:57:30):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:57:30):

... yeah [inaudible 00:57:31].

Jessica Purks (00:57:30):

We just program it to spin and then it just drains into a bucket and we just empty the bucket.

Connor Self (00:57:35):

And then-

Jessica Purks (00:57:35):

One day we'll have it drain into a line that actually drains out the building, but it works great. We could use like three more of these Pandas [inaudible 00:57:42].

Andy Chamberlain (00:57:42):

How expensive is a panda?

Jessica Purks (00:57:44):

It's not. It's like on Amazon for a hundred bucks.

Connor Self (00:57:48):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:57:48):

I know. It's like-

Connor Self (00:57:48):

You can get them at-

Jessica Purks (00:57:49):

... why aren't people using these things?

Connor Self (00:57:49):

... Home Depot or-

Jessica Purks (00:57:50):

Yeah.

Connor Self (00:57:51):

... I mean, they're not that big, but in the winter we can just pick it up and drain it and make sure it doesn't freeze and put it inside if we have to.

Andy Chamberlain (00:58:00):

It's portable.

Jessica Purks (00:58:02):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (00:58:02):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:58:02):

Not too heavy. Looks like you can fit a lot of microgreens in it.

Jessica Purks (00:58:03):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (00:58:03):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (00:58:04):

Yeah. It fits about like one blue harvest bucket. We'll fill this. This is like a sink load and then this is what we put in a mesh pretty much. Then, we have like activity boards for the day and like month goals that we try to keep up with, mostly ignore.

Andy Chamberlain (00:58:23):

Yeah, right. To take it off your brain.

Jessica Purks (00:58:25):

Mm-hmm. Definitely need a lot more room in here for like storage of boxes and supplies, extra bags and stuff, so I think we'll put more shelving up around just to hold all those things, extra stickers and things.

Andy Chamberlain (00:58:38):

Yeah. You've got space in that corner to add another shelf.

Jessica Purks (00:58:42):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (00:58:42):

How'd you get started farming? I've picked up that you were in New Zealand and you did some WWOOFing and you've been on a few farms, but-

Connor Self (00:58:51):

Yeah, we both started sort of in college, like summers home from college. I think we both sort of gained our awareness around food in high school and became vegetarian, and then started looking more into agriculture and sustainability of different systems of agriculture. Then, found out it was a great summer job to work on an organic farm and had a lot of fun, and then just kind of never looked back. We didn't study agriculture, but we just kept working on farms and then found that it was probably more of what we wanted to do than what we studied.

Jessica Purks (00:59:35):

Mm-hmm.

Andy Chamberlain (00:59:36):

What did you study?

Connor Self (00:59:38):

I studied international relations. Didn't really want to work for the government or sit in an office all day, and just went to Green Mountain College and studied anthropology, sociology.

Jessica Purks (00:59:52):

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and like in high school, I started looking closer at the food system. I think if I go way back, I actually trace it back to my days going to Warped Tour. Do you remember Warped Tour?

Andy Chamberlain (01:00:03):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:00:04):

It's the punk rock-

Andy Chamberlain (01:00:04):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:00:04):

... summer concert? I remember one summer going there and there was like PETA there and they were showing these horrible videos of what was happening in the industrial animal food system. I was like, "Oh my gosh." I had no idea, and I was like, "This is happening? This is really messed up." That just was a moment for me where I was like, "Okay, I need to learn more about this. I need to really start questioning what I'm eating." I went vegan, I think, on the spot, but it launched me in this whole examination of the food system and my environmental ethic and my food ethic.

(01:00:36):

I found I was so concerned with the industrial food system and like the monocrop system and industrial ag, and it looked like the animals were having a really hard time in there, the workers, the landscapes involved. I was like, "There's got to be a better way." And so in high school I was like, "Where is this alternative? There's got to be a better way to produce food for our community." Then, I went to college in Vermont at Green Mountain in Poultney, and there, I found people that were like engaging in this other way, like growing food in a small scale, sustainable way. There was an on-campus farm and I started learning how to grow food there and like sharing food with people and community and like doing dinners together, and then worked on farms for my summer's home in Maryland.

(01:01:27):

Then, yeah, like Connor said, haven't really looked back, and then we met up, he was in San Diego and I was in Vermont. We were both getting into farming and food production independently, and then we met and we went on a date and we were both describing a farm that looks just like this on the date that we wanted to have one day. Like, "Okay, maybe there's something here. We should probably get a second beer and keep talking." Yeah, Connor and I linked up and we were working on farms in Maryland, organic veggie farms, like tractor, plastic mulch, tillage, all that stuff, like farmers markets, CSA model, all under like 10 acres, mixed veg, and just really got bit by the bug.

(01:02:11):

I took a break teaching English for a while and I realized, "No, I miss farming and food too much and working with the land and working with plants." We knew we were growing out of the position we were on in Maryland, and we wanted to have our own thing and start a farm. We wanted it to be Vermont. We would vacation up here and we'd see the farmers market and all the craft cheese and beer and all the awesome pizza, and we're like, "This is where it's at," and like the NOFA and the Food Hub Network, like all these organizations and the scaffolding was in place to like really support farms and help them succeed. People got it and they showed and the farmers [inaudible 01:02:53].

Connor Self (01:02:53):

And there's so much more demand.

Jessica Purks (01:02:55):

The demand. Yeah.

Connor Self (01:02:55):

The market in Rutland's amazing. Rutland's only a city of whatever-

Jessica Purks (01:03:01):

14,000 people-

Connor Self (01:03:02):

... yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:03:02):

... and we're coming from a city of 70,000 people in Maryland that didn't have a good farmers market, like didn't have a farmers market.

Connor Self (01:03:10):

It was sad. It was not worth going to-

Jessica Purks (01:03:13):

Yeah.

Connor Self (01:03:13):

... as a market.

Jessica Purks (01:03:17):

It was like a $300-a-day market. I mean, yeah, farmers market. So we saw what was happening up here. I was like, "We want to start a farm. We want it to be in Vermont." And so we moved up in 2021 and we're looking at land up in Chittenden County, and we never thought we'd be in Rutland County. We thought for sure if we're going to farm, we're going to go where the people are and be close to Burlington because that's where everything's happening, but then I think we realized-

Connor Self (01:03:43):

There's no housing.

Jessica Purks (01:03:44):

... there's no housing. There's no way we could afford a Chittenden County property on like a market garden salary.

Connor Self (01:03:50):

And we were looking at land trust properties, but then we couldn't build on it, and so that was a big blow. Then, we looked further afield and then found this piece of land, and it was like right amount of infrastructure, right amount of land, prime soils-

Jessica Purks (01:04:04):

River.

Connor Self (01:04:04):

... near a river and plenty of water to irrigate. Then, we got really lucky because Shrewsbury is just like an amazing community that we had no idea. I mean, you don't have time. You just see a place, you got to put offer down, so don't have time to really get to know the community, but we got lucky there.

Jessica Purks (01:04:25):

Yeah, the community's welcomed us with open arms and Evening Song's on the other side of town, and Ryan and Kara have been amazingly supportive and open with us as we kind of find of our legs here and have been just sharing so much with us and just providing so much support. We were able to get into the Rutland market right away. We've been able to tap into all these wholesale opportunities right away, like open up a farm stand and it's just like a wide open opportunity. Like anything we want to do, it's like there's room for us to do it. It's pretty amazing.

Andy Chamberlain (01:05:00):

What do you think was a big driver of that success, we'll say, of establishing your farm as a new kid on the block?

Jessica Purks (01:05:10):

Hmm. Like emerging with our brand and...

Andy Chamberlain (01:05:15):

Yeah, I mean anything.

Jessica Purks (01:05:16):

Well, that's why we got the alpacas. Immediately people were like, "Who are those people that moved to town with the alpacas?"

Andy Chamberlain (01:05:22):

Catch people's attention-

Jessica Purks (01:05:22):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (01:05:22):

... the hook.

Jessica Purks (01:05:25):

It did actually work that way. They got a lot of people's attention. Well, this town is just super curious and receptive, I think. As soon as we moved, people were like, "Who's that? Who are you?" People show up in the driveway all the time with blueberries and like, "Who are you? Let me tell you about the property and who lived here before." So there was just this natural curiosity among the community members to know us, and then we had a business and we're just in a place like Vermont generally is just so supportive of local businesses it seems.

(01:05:55):

Then, we came to this after years of learning how to farm, and before we landed here, we spent like a year and a half just dialing in the business plan and designing the farm so when we found a place, we could hit the ground running. When we got here, we just launched the farm business and we moved in July. We closed on July 7th, right?

Connor Self (01:06:16):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:06:17):

And we had like beets and carrots for sale by late August, September. All the neighbors were like, "Oh my gosh, you guys are quick." We had the gardens out front so people could see and they just... You know, people can't resist-

Andy Chamberlain (01:06:30):

Hit the ground running.

Connor Self (01:06:31):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:06:32):

... an alluring garden. Yeah. Yeah. We just started selling in the little general store a couple miles down the road and popping into the Rutland Farmers Market as a vendor, and I don't know. We just put ourself out there. We showed up to things so people can meet us, and like our brand, too, we've built a nice website and our branding is like pretty appealing and catches a lot of people's eye. That stuff works.

Connor Self (01:07:00):

Yeah. Marketing works.

Jessica Purks (01:07:00):

Yeah.

Connor Self (01:07:00):

Nice. What do you know?

Andy Chamberlain (01:07:07):

Made yourself known.

Jessica Purks (01:07:09):

Yeah.

Connor Self (01:07:09):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (01:07:10):

That's cool and really interesting to hear. What does sustainable farming mean to you an dhow are you achieving it?

Jessica Purks (01:07:19):

That's a great question.

Connor Self (01:07:20):

Yeah. Well, I think as organic farmers, everything comes back to the soil, and so I think for us, improving the soil is sort of our North Star. I think our practices and our methods, I think we can build fertility and organic matter even while we're producing crops, but then moving forward, doing more and more cover cropping and relying less on bought in fertility is sort of how we can reach that next level of sustainability. I think if we're improving the soil, that's the main thing. The other things obviously that factor into it, we're building biodiversity, building habitat for pollinators, leaving things intentionally, planting all the flowers, trying to attract bugs and build those ecosystems around the farm.

Jessica Purks (01:08:21):

Yeah. I think of it, there's all the biological sustainability, the ecological sustainability, and that's like what brought us to farming. And then as we've been building this business, we're starting to realize, too, in addition to that, there's a whole nother layer of sustainability for our business. We're now starting to think about like, can we keep people working on the farm? Can we create jobs that are appealing to people that pay enough that are inspiring and fun and worthwhile? I think that is becoming a larger picture of what sustainability means for us, like the people involved, will they come back? Will they want to continue to look for jobs in farming? Can we continue to work in farming? Is the work-

Connor Self (01:09:00):

Without burning out or getting injured.

Jessica Purks (01:09:01):

... yeah, exactly. Can our bodies sustain the work? That's like the sandbag thing. We love this work. We want to do this for the long haul. We don't want to break our backs doing it, and we don't want to break our employees' backs doing it either. We want to create meaningful work both for ourselves that our bodies can enjoy doing, like moving forward into the future, and that we can find other people that want to do it alongside us. Because I think if we can't like... We can answer a lot of the ecological sustainability stuff through our practices and land management and the way we grow, and then there's this whole other component of sustainability just involving the people that we're doing the work with ourselves and our employees.

Andy Chamberlain (01:09:42):

What advice would you give to a beginning grower or another young farmer?

Connor Self (01:09:50):

Hmm. Definitely work on a bunch of other farms. We're always amazed when people just work one season somewhere and then start a farm. I mean, I managed to garden basically in my second or third year growing after only working one or two seasons, and I think I was in over my head, but obviously learned more than I ever could working for somebody else, but we have so many valuable lessons just from working on other farms, both what we don't want to do and what we do. I think it's great to learn both. Go work on a farm one year, doing one style, and completely opposite the next year and you'll figure it out.

Jessica Purks (01:10:40):

And I think I'd say apply for grants. There's so many grants and like resources out there to help beginning farmers invest in critical infrastructure or build a cohort of people that can support you as you build your business. We got so many grants, every year we've been here just to do those things, to find people that will support us with soil or projects or the risk mitigation here on this land, the wood stoves, the NRCS. There's just so much out there to support small farmers, just like tap into all of that.

Andy Chamberlain (01:11:20):

Hmm. What does the 10-year outlook like for your farm?

Connor Self (01:11:26):

Hoo. I mean, we're only in year three, so I think we're just starting to find what we're good at, find what we're not good at. I mean, every year is so exciting because it seems like we're making all the mistakes, but we have so much... Still having big gains in the learning curve, so we're still at a steep learning curve and still figuring things out, but I think like Jess was saying earlier, as we move more into perennials, we're going to dial in sort of the annual veggies and then bring on more perennials. THere's just a huge demand for fruit. Nobody's growing organic fruit, and that would be awesome, I think, if we could have veggies and fruit. Yeah, and we don't have a ton of extra land to grow, so it's not going to change a whole lot in terms of acreage, but...

Jessica Purks (01:12:35):

I thought you said that we'd be able to retire.

Connor Self (01:12:38):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:12:40):

No, we'll definitely be working. Yeah. It'll be a landscape of more diversity, I think. A lot more fruit, maybe some nuts. We've always been excited about chestnuts and hazelnuts and, yeah, a mix of annual veggies and flowers and all kinds of fruit. I mean, especially kiwi berries, we're like, "Why is nobody growing kiwi berries in Vermont?" Maybe they don't grow here, whatever. We're going to figure [inaudible 01:13:06].

Connor Self (01:13:06):

About ready to find out.

Jessica Purks (01:13:06):

We're going to figure it out, and yeah, I think a lot... We love the farmers market. I think a lot of farms do grow out of the farmers market and within 10 years, we may be pretty tired of giving up our Saturdays, but we hired somebody to do our farmers market for us on Sunday, and that was awesome.

Connor Self (01:13:25):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (01:13:25):

Mm-hmm.

Jessica Purks (01:13:26):

We love the connection to community that you gain at a farmers market.

Connor Self (01:13:30):

And seeing the end customer receive the product and how excited they are, but I think one day a week is good-

Jessica Purks (01:13:37):

Yeah, yeah.

Connor Self (01:13:39):

... not doing too many-

Jessica Purks (01:13:40):

Yeah.

Connor Self (01:13:41):

... but yeah, we might do more wholesale. Yeah. Every time we're unloading totes and totes of veggies on Saturday morning at 8:00, we're like, "This can't be worth it," but then we know people that have been doing it for 20, 30 years and they're still doing it, and so we probably will keep doing it for a while, but then when we can send out an equal amount of produce in like two hours to a wholesale customer, it just seems like...

Jessica Purks (01:14:14):

Well, what would happen to the farmers markets if they weren't willing farmers?

Connor Self (01:14:16):

Oh yeah. Yeah, right.

Jessica Purks (01:14:16):

I get stressed about that. I was like-

Connor Self (01:14:16):

Somebody's got to be-

Andy Chamberlain (01:14:16):

It's part of the-

Jessica Purks (01:14:16):

People are-

Andy Chamberlain (01:14:16):

... food system.

Jessica Purks (01:14:16):

... they're-

Connor Self (01:14:16):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:14:21):

... farmers are aging out. There has to be farmers ready to line up to take over those vacancies at the farmers market to keep them viable and vibrant, and that's part of Vermont's culture is like the farmers markets.

Connor Self (01:14:33):

And that's why we moved here.

Jessica Purks (01:14:34):

Yeah.

Connor Self (01:14:34):

We can't just let it go.

Jessica Purks (01:14:34):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (01:14:40):

Who's been an inspiration, mentor, or influence for you guys?

Connor Self (01:14:44):

Yeah, definitely Singing Frogs. They were great mentors. We just happened to be in California on our way back from New Zealand and asked if we could visit for a couple of weeks and they threw us in with the crew and we got to see the whole place. And then a farm that we were on in New Zealand called Pakaraka Permaculture, we stayed there for six months on and off WWOOFing. They were like an amazing market garden doing like quarter acre, half an acre of no-till veggies, and that's when we were really sort of refining our idea for how we wanted to farm and what we wanted to farm. So that was a big one, and then here, I think in Vermont, we look up to Small Axe. We went there last year and saw their place and they're just amazing farmers, and then-

Jessica Purks (01:15:35):

Trillium Hill.

Connor Self (01:15:36):

... Trillium Hill, man, we saw their place last fall and it was like their veggies are just glowing. Their farm is amazing, and then Ryan and Kara at Evening Song, our mentors here in town, they've been super helpful.

(01:15:50):

I mean, so many. There's just so much information out there now. We were at Common Ground Fair in Maine the other week and we saw Eliot Coleman talk, and that was just like, you know, he's obviously the elder statesman of market gardening, but just seeing him in person was like just really reinspiring. And so there's all those guys, too, Eliot and Shamartan.

Jessica Purks (01:16:17):

Mm-hmm.

Andy Chamberlain (01:16:18):

You mentioned applying for as many grants as you could. Vern and others have mentioned you've worked with NRCS. Could you tell me a little bit about what you're doing with them or how that experience has been?

Connor Self (01:16:30):

Yeah, we applied sort of right away and got really lucky. We got an amazing agent who just sort of explained the process to us and like we signed up for so many things in our first contract. That was one thing we didn't understand, but now we do, is that like the more conservation practices you can do, the more competitive your application is. So we signed up for like reduced tillage, applying compost, cover cropping, mulching, just all these practices that we wanted to do anyway and we're planning on doing anyway, and then the high tunnels, what else?

(01:17:15):

We had a huge list of practices, putting in pollinator plantings and hedgerows and some of those things that are still in the works, but right off the bat we got our first contract approved. Then, since then, we've had two more rounds of high tunnels get approved, and now we're planning on doing the alley cropping with them and a few more insect habitat projects and birdhouses and-

Jessica Purks (01:17:46):

The beetle bank.

Connor Self (01:17:47):

... just keeps going-

Jessica Purks (01:17:48):

That's just a-

Connor Self (01:17:49):

... on and on. There's something called a beetle bank, which is just like building an intentional habitat for beetles.

Jessica Purks (01:17:54):

It's a mound of grass, I think.

Connor Self (01:17:57):

It's either a mound of grass or like-

Jessica Purks (01:17:58):

NRCS is very exciting.

Connor Self (01:17:58):

... a lasagna bed.

Andy Chamberlain (01:18:01):

[inaudible 01:18:01] interest. Sounds terrible.

Connor Self (01:18:06):

But they pay us for it. Yeah. No, they've been awesome.

Jessica Purks (01:18:11):

Mm-hmm.

Connor Self (01:18:12):

People bank this is where the creepy crawlies live.

Andy Chamberlain (01:18:14):

Yeah. Yep. Interesting. Huh.

Connor Self (01:18:18):

They've connected us to other resources, too. They've brought out the local NRCD folks and river engineers and specialists to talk about how we can manage their erosion on the river banks and flood mitigation, and so they've just been a resource for connecting us. They brought out an agronomist to help talk about IPM and bug management, so yeah, highly recommended.

Andy Chamberlain (01:18:50):

All kinds of things.

Connor Self (01:18:51):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (01:18:54):

If you had the opportunity for a grant, we'll say 10 to $50,000, what would you spend it on?

Connor Self (01:19:05):

Oh man.

Jessica Purks (01:19:06):

No match requirement?

Andy Chamberlain (01:19:07):

Yeah, just free money. Just a random... That was a question I thought of the other day. I'm like if-

Connor Self (01:19:13):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (01:19:13):

... if you could have a chunk of change-

Connor Self (01:19:15):

One thing-

Andy Chamberlain (01:19:16):

... what would you invest in that?

Connor Self (01:19:17):

... that we wanted to do that was a little out of our price range, just put solar on the barn and get some battery backup for the farm stand because now we have so much refrigeration going that we don't lose power often, but when we do, it's scary. That would be one nice thing, and then my second, you can have your own answer, but my second thing would be to build an awesome new greenhouse. We put that one up because it was free and easy, but we want to build like a passive solar greenhouse that's insulated on the north side and a lot more efficient, probably not covered in poly, but something more durable and insulated. So that was a dream for a while. We might convert this barn into a greenhouse.

Jessica Purks (01:20:06):

Yeah. This is where we wanted to put the passive solar greenhouse.

Connor Self (01:20:09):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (01:20:10):

Yeah, you're partially there with this.

Jessica Purks (01:20:12):

Yeah.

Connor Self (01:20:12):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:20:12):

Right.

Connor Self (01:20:12):

[inaudible 01:20:13]-

Andy Chamberlain (01:20:13):

[inaudible 01:20:13] tell me you got all the-

Connor Self (01:20:14):

... [inaudible 01:20:15].

Andy Chamberlain (01:20:14):

... [inaudible 01:20:15] with that.

Jessica Purks (01:20:14):

Yeah.

Connor Self (01:20:17):

I know. Put some sidewalls on it. Yeah. What I would do with it. What would you do with 50,000?

Jessica Purks (01:20:21):

I think the solar is up there. Our electricity bill has just been growing so much the more we grow, and yeah.

Connor Self (01:20:29):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:20:29):

It would be-

Connor Self (01:20:30):

It just makes sense.

Jessica Purks (01:20:30):

... yeah, and for the resiliency is, yeah, we do get power outages and with all the infrastructure, it's stressful when we're trying to mitigate stress and promote well-being.

Andy Chamberlain (01:20:40):

Trying to.

Connor Self (01:20:41):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:20:48):

Yeah, and then... Yeah, I think those are the top ones. I was like maybe a nice delivery van for the farmers market, but actually-

Connor Self (01:20:52):

No.

Jessica Purks (01:20:53):

... we just got a little trailer that we pull with the Subaru and it's like the move. It's awesome.

Connor Self (01:20:57):

Yep. Unhitch it and we have a good car, and then hitch it up and it's just big enough to take everything to market.

Jessica Purks (01:21:04):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (01:21:06):

What's a time when you felt really successful farming?

Connor Self (01:21:10):

I think anytime we get a good crop of carrots.

Jessica Purks (01:21:13):

Yeah.

Connor Self (01:21:17):

Yeah. I think carrots for us on other farms that we worked on were always sort of elusive because they had just really high annual weed pressure and it was just like never had carrots, and then we moved here and we're like, "Ooh." One, we have sandy soil, and two, we don't have a lot of annual weeds or carrots.

Jessica Purks (01:21:41):

Yeah. I think carrots are up there and also beets and spinach. When we moved here, the soil was so acidic that beets and like any of the chenopods just really struggled to thrive, and we would paper pot them and direct seed them and they'd just wither and turn yellow and just like not go anywhere. Now that we're in year three, it feels like the soil is finally in a better place that we can grow healthy crops of spinach and beets for the first time and like with nice foliage.

Connor Self (01:22:10):

Seeing that improvement over the three years has been cool.

Jessica Purks (01:22:12):

Yeah.

Connor Self (01:22:13):

Yeah, it feels good.

Andy Chamberlain (01:22:15):

The other side of that question is, what's a time when you felt really challenged farming?

Connor Self (01:22:21):

July.

Andy Chamberlain (01:22:23):

Annually?

Connor Self (01:22:24):

Every July. This year managed to get away for a short weekend.

Jessica Purks (01:22:32):

Oh, that was like five days.

Connor Self (01:22:33):

Four days.

Andy Chamberlain (01:22:33):

Whoa.

Connor Self (01:22:34):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:22:34):

Yeah, in July.

Connor Self (01:22:34):

At the end of July, early August.

Jessica Purks (01:22:36):

We had two summer vacations this year.

Connor Self (01:22:37):

Yeah, but leading right before that vacation, I think we were kind of at the end of our rope.

Jessica Purks (01:22:44):

Yeah. July's hard. I think it's challenging. We love the work, but it also feels hard to keep it balanced with other needs, and that's when it feels hard for me. We grow all this beautiful food and at the end of the day, we're too tired to make a nice meal with it. It really gets me sometimes, and I'm just like exhausted or not even hungry because it's like hot and I'm just like, "I want to go to bed," or like I have to do like computer work or something after dark. That's like demoralizing and challenging for me with farming. It's so hard to keep things in balance during the peak of the season, how people crack that code that-

Andy Chamberlain (01:23:21):

Like life balance?

Jessica Purks (01:23:22):

Yeah. The work-life balance. Yeah, because it's just so demanding. I mean, you know the to-do list is inexhaustible-

Andy Chamberlain (01:23:28):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:23:28):

Yeah.

Connor Self (01:23:28):

Yeah.

Jessica Purks (01:23:30):

... and it's all stuff that feels like deeply gratifying to accomplish and check off as well, so-

Andy Chamberlain (01:23:34):

Did you want to do it?

Jessica Purks (01:23:38):

... I want to do it, so that's hard.

Andy Chamberlain (01:23:42):

Well, it's been great to get to know you guys and your farm a little more-

Jessica Purks (01:23:44):

Yeah.

Andy Chamberlain (01:23:46):

... so thanks for showing me around and-

Connor Self (01:23:47):

Thank you for coming.

Andy Chamberlain (01:23:47):

... thanks for coming on the podcast.

Jessica Purks (01:23:49):

Yeah, of course, Andy. Thanks so much for reaching out and letting us be here with you. Awesome.

Andy Chamberlain (01:23:53):

It's fun.

(01:24:00):

And that was The Farmer's Share. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Connor and Jess of Stone's Throw Farms, then. The Farmer's Share is supported by a grant offered by the USDA Specialty Crop Block Program from the Vermont Agency of Agriculture, Food & Markets. This funding helps to cover some of my time and travel in order to produce this podcast until March of 2026. The USDA Agricultural Marketing Service supports projects that address the needs of U.S. specialty crop growers and strengthens local and regional food systems. I have no doubt that this podcast will meet those needs and help educate growers to support the industry. If you enjoy this show and want to help support its programming, you can make a one-time or reoccurring donation on our website by visiting thefarmersshare.com/support.

(01:24:55):

We also receive funding from the Vermont Vegetable and Berry Growers Association. The VVBGA is a nonprofit organization funded in 1976 to promote the economic, environmental, and social sustainability of vegetable and berry farming in Vermont. Their membership includes over 400 farms across Vermont and beyond, as well as about 50 businesses and organizations that provide products and services of all types to their members. Benefits to members include access to the VVBGA Listserv to buy, sell plants and equipment, share farming information, and tap the vast experience of our growers.

(01:25:34):

Access the community accreditation for produce safety, also known as CAPS. This program is designed for growers by growers to help you easily meet market and regulatory food safety expectations. You can access the VVBGA's soil health platform, where you can organize all the soil tests and create and store your soil amendment plans and records, access to webinars for growers in the VVBGA annual meeting, an email subscription to the Vermont Vegetable and Berry Newsletter, camaraderie, enhanced communication, and fellowship among commercial growers. Memberships are on a per farm per calendar year basis and annual dues this year are $80. These funds pay for the organization's operating costs and support education programs and research projects.

(01:26:27):

These funds also support projects that address grower needs around ag engineering, high tunnel production, pest management, pollinators, produce safety, and soil health. Become a member today to be a part of and further support the veg and berry industry. You can visit thefarmersshare.com to listen to previous interviews or see photos, videos, or links discussed from the conversation. If you don't want to miss the next episode, enter your email address on our website and you'll get a note in your inbox when the next one comes out. The Farmer's Share has a YouTube channel with videos from several of the farm visits. We're also on Instagram and that's where you can be reminded about the latest episode or see photos from the visit.

(01:27:11):

Lastly, if you're enjoying the show, I'd love it if you could write a review. In Apple Podcasts, just click on the show, scroll down to the bottom, and there you can leave five stars in a comment to help encourage new listeners to tune in. I'd also encourage you to share this episode with other grower friends or crew who you think would be inspiring for them. Thanks for listening.