STEM-Ready Kids | S.17 Ep.5

We dive into raising STEM-ready kids by encouraging exploration and innovation at school, after school, and at home. NASA Iowa Space Grant Director Sara Nelson unpacks integrated STEM and project-based learning, plus what to look for in quality programs.

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Welcome to The Science of Parenting podcast, where we connect you with research based information that fits your family. We'll talk about the realities of being a parent and how research can help guide parenting decisions. I'm Mackenzie Dejong-Schelling, a pod, the podcast co-hosts here, and I'm a parenting educator. Today we're diving into a crucial topic, how learning STEM in school, after school, and at home can profoundly impact your child's success and interest in these vital fields. We are happy to feature another Iowa State University Assistant Professor, Sara Nelson is joining us today. Sara serves as the Director of the NASA Iowa Space Grant Consortium and works to support STEM education and research. Welcome, Sara. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. I've had a lot of fun not only preparing for the podcast with you, but also thinking about my STEM journey, too. And so I actually grew up in Minnesota and got to do a lot of fun things outdoors, a lot on the lakes, you know, of course. But then later on, I became a teacher down here in Iowa, worked at the Science Center of Iowa, and a fun fact, I got to hold the snakes, salamanders and turtles. And also, yeah, I thought that was actually, I was actually pretty hesitant at first, but then, I found that I was able to do it, so it was a good learning experience for me, too. And after that, again taught. And I'm now here at Iowa State and have loved every minute of it. And we are so excited both to have you at Iowa State, to get that wealth of knowledge that you have, but we're even more excited to have your parenting knowledge and your STEM knowledge with us today on the podcast. So let's dive in. As usual, our listeners know we usually start with that definition, so we'll go with that. We're going to talk about not only STEM but another term called integrated STEM. So what does that mean? The National Science Teaching Association defines integrated STEM as an instructional approach that blends concepts and practices from multiple science, technology, engineering, and math disciplines with, within a single learning experience. All right. So let's think about that a moment, right? That's a really technical definition, but what does that look like? So instead of teaching each subject separately teaching, science lesson, a math lesson, talking about a technology, student engaged in learning in this method, right, naturally weaves together these all in different fields. So what does that look like in practice, Sara? That's a really good question. And to me, integrated STEM, again, really means blending science, technology, engineering and math into one single learning experience. And so you really can't have the experience without all of those four components, you know, being there at the same time. And so that means we can't teach each subject separately. But, you know, in essence it's really about helping kids see how these are all connected and also how STEM connects to their lives to. Absolutely. So do you have a way that is best to do this? There’s one way that I would recommend and one of them is project based learning. And the title, you know, kind of says it all, but really, what we're looking for is a project that would embed the science, technology, engineering and math, and often it's tied to something in the kids lives. So, for example, maybe you see a bridge, you know, and you want to build a model of that bridge, learn more about it, maybe test, see how much weight it can hold. Really, you know, right there, think about all the things that they're using. They're using science to understand the forces, math to calculate load, engineering to build, all at once. And so hopefully that's a fun example for you there. Absolutely. And I think you might have mentioned that there's a, there's a bridge in your life, there is a bridge engineer in your life. Ah, yes. You know, a little shout out to my husband. He is, the state bridge engineer, bridge engineer for the state of Iowa. And so it's been fun to sit at the dinner table learning more about bridges and concrete. Absolutely. I bet he would be a great person to go to to say, “hey, we're doing a bridge camp. Let's do this.” It sounds, that all sounds way more fun and more meaningful than just doing, like a worksheet on bridges, right? Yes, you know, exactly. I often like to share with people when I'm talking with them that STEM is a verb, not a noun, meaning it's supposed to be active, you know, and engaging. And so when we think about STEM integration, it's, you know, not just about adding a tech tool or a math problem to a science lesson. It's about intentional design. It's about actions. It's about being a verb and creating experiences where STEM disciplines really naturally intersect. And it's really not hard work, you know, to put them all together. And when we do it right, man, that's when kids really start thinking like problem solvers. And really, I mean, you'll be just blown away by what they're able to do. I love that so, so much. And it doesn't just help them like in that moment, right, how does it help them in the long run? In the long run, I think it lays a really strong educational foundation, and it builds skills that they're going to need for the rest of their lives. So, you know, it builds these real world skills. If you can learn how to ask a question, test your idea, solve challenges together as a team, you can do just about anything, you know. So STEM is really about being, you know, hands on, relevant to your life and really showcasing how all of these things in our lives are connected. You know, as you say that, I'm thinking about, “oh, I do that.” Like “we do that at work.”“We did that as we prepared for this podcast, right?” So it really builds those skills to be ready for the real world, absolutely. So for parents, we can know that the takeaway is to look for learning that's connected, creative, concept driven, as we're looking at things that are STEM integrated. Yeah, you know, absolutely. So whether you're at home or at school, if you can help kids explore big ideas through these integrated STEM projects or activities, you know, they're not just learning. They're also thinking like scientists and engineers, and they're being scientists and engineers, and that's a really exciting time. Absolutely. And that's what makes it so effective, right? Yeah, you know, project based learning is really about solving real world problems. And, you know, just think about that. If we have young people that are able to solve real world problems with us, that's absolutely amazing. So, you know, even things like, you know, designing a roller coaster or a wildlife platform, all of these things really help build skills and things that will help them the rest of their lives. And there was a study, you know, out of Kent State that showed, even with future elementary teachers, that if we use project based learning, they can be very successful at integrating multiple STEM disciplines. And it showcases to them, I think, how powerful integrating science, technology, engineering and math can be not only in the classroom, but even outside of the classroom too. Absolutely. So setting those future educators up for success as well as they’re entering the the education field, I love that. So it sounds more engaging than just a regular worksheet, sets us educators up for success. What challenges might you see in the classroom? Yeah, you, great question, because sometimes, you know, even experienced teachers, may face some of these challenges or these points of tension. We could call them that. But one of them is thinking about content versus skills. And so teachers or educators really must balance thinking about, “okay, I'm teaching these facts, but then embedding it with these problem solving skills to,” and so, you know, again, I think a combination of the two is, is the perfect way to go. Yeah. Using real world issues like environmental challenges or other to help blend both of them together. And it connects to the, that really connects to their real life right now. That content applies to who I am or what's around me. Absolutely. I think a second point is, you know, guided instruction versus play. Now I'm going to tell you, you know, right here and right now, I think STEM play is amazing and one of the best things you can do with your children. And I think as educators, it's important for us to offer those opportunities for STEM play, too. You know, but sometimes a structured lesson is the way to go, also. So you had said tension between guided instruction and play, but always letting youth lead the learning, you know, whenever possible, giving them time to explore, to experiment, to ask questions that, you know, is STEM play. You know, that said inquiry process. And so it's a great way to fuel creativity and curiosity within our children. Absolutely. And, you know, as someone that works with an environmental rating, sorts of things, like how do you set up that environment to guide the play? Maybe it's not just sitting down and teaching them something, you know, here's the facts, but how can you set up that environment for them to ask those questions and that sort of thing? So, kind of a nerdy thing is that we love to talk about how play is learning. Play is work for children, and that applies to this, right? What can we do to set up the environment to lead them in play so they can learn? Yeah, and that leads us into the idea of looking at processes versus product, right, what does that look like? Yeah, and I think it ties to that question, you know, that you were posing earlier there. And so if, you know, as a parent or an educator, you focus on the process maybe a little bit more than the product, I think you're going to find the learning experience really changes. And so success isn't then just about what's the final result or the final answer, but it's about what you did along the way. What are the skills you had to use, you know, these integrated skills? Did you get to do some trial and error? If you had an issue that came up, how did you solve it? So, you know, again, it's valuing that process, you know, along the way, not only the end product, the end product is important too. But I think if we can all focus on the process a little bit more, I think we might be surprised, you know, at how that impacts learning. Absolutely. And that process involves things like looking at how a we're collaborating versus focusing on individual needs. Where are we balancing those. What does that look like? Yeah, so, you know, in all of these STEM things you're often working with a team. And that ability to build your teamwork skills is something that will pay off at any point in your life, you know, I believe, and so this group work kind of builds that teamwork. And it supports each child's, you know, unique strengths because everybody can bring something, you know, to the group. So strategies, you know like individual brainstorming before group sharing, you know, can also help, you know, different teamwork techniques. They all play into it, and, you know, I think I shared this earlier on. But you know, sometimes at NASA we're asked to do things that no one has done before. But in order to do them, we have to work as a team and we need everybody at the table and we need every thought, and we need people asking questions and saying,“hey, I'm not sure that's going to work,” that kind of thing. And so, you know, again, collaboration versus individual needs here. Teamwork, can't beat that skill anytime we can build it. I think we need to do it. Absolutely. And you're utilizing you're still utilizing individual skills, right, but working on how do we play together and making it all happen. And I got to say, I got a little bit of goosebumps when you started talking about NASA like that. Like that's real, right? We're talking about how this plays directly from being a kid to things like being, you know, belonging to NASA, and that real world. So that did it give me a little bit of goosebumps. So that leads us kind of into, we looked at the challenges, excuse me, we looked at the challenges we might see, what, what maybe works better or what works, I don't know if that's the right way to say that, but how it, how it all plays together and what kind of challenges we might see in the classroom. But what sorts of things can parents maybe expect if they're, they're spending their child to a classroom that is focused on integrated STEM? What can kids and parents expect to see in those classrooms? I think a lot of excitement, number one, but you know, I love STEM. but, you know, again, I think it's a shift from, you know, memorizing things to instead to figuring out things. And so memorizing facts, you know, like the stages of a butterfly's life cycle might really help, you know, on an end quiz and assessment. But real understanding comes from seeing the big ideas about butterflies and their life cycles. And so, you know, once you may be seen in an action, maybe you went to the butterfly garden, you worked with the scientists or, you know, different things. Once you understand that process, you can apply that process to other things, you know, than to, so, you know, if we can get kids to grasp those big ideas, then they can apply them in new situations. And to me, that's what STEM is really about. Absolutely. I, I love that, and it leads us into, you know, things like those, there's, so there's, there's three dimensions that you'll have to, you'll have to tell us what this stands for, because I'm not thinking of it, but the NGSS looks at three dimensions. So they're looking at kind of just like you said, those core ideas of big concepts. Okay, first of all, rewind what is NGSS? That's always a good question, yeah, Next Generation Science Standards in those, our national standards, and Iowa's standards are based off of the the NGSS standards, yep. So those standards that first thing off, off the bat is that looking at those big concepts like you said, and then it leads, right, I mean, I'm just looking at, and it leads right into kind of those things you just talked about, right? Sciences practices, actually looking at what sciences, scientists do, right, and then crosscutting concepts. Can you tell me a little bit about what that means? Yeah, so what the NGSS, you know, would like to see is for again, the students to be doing or the youth to be doing the science or the STEM. And again, you mentioned those three things. So I'm going to start with the core ideas there in that whatever the teacher educator is teaching about, they should have in the back of their mind, “okay, this is the end goal, this is the big idea that I would like my students to take away from this.” So you kind of start with this core idea, and then you think about, “okay, in order to learn about this core idea, what are the things or the practices that I need to do, like a scientist does, you know, to help me learn it.” And so, like, for example, we've talked about these things, but it's, you know, looking at things, asking questions, measuring things with tools, you know, all those kinds of things. Those are the practices. And so then the crosscutting concepts are embedded in these topics also in that, universally, there are patterns or systems that apply not only to the big idea that maybe you were looking at, but also apply to another big idea. So the name kind of helps, like it's a concept that cuts across things, different disciplines. Yeah. But you know, to be honest, it took me a while to figure all this out. So, I want everyone to know that, like, you know, again, not only for teaching science, like, you don't have to have all the answers, you know, right now up front. You can just work with your kids, you know, to ask and answer, answer questions together. So, you know, don't worry if some of the things that I shared are new to you. You can always call me up and I'll be happy to chat about it. And that's why I didn't do a solo podcast on this, because I don't really know it. I don't, I don't really know about all of this. I just like to use, you know, bring in friends that know a lot more than I do. So that's awesome. Thank you for kind of walking us through what that looks like. So I'm thinking about what about like activities, you know, we set up activities for things. They might seem fun, but sometimes can feel maybe disconnected. Yeah, we call that the activity trap. You know, “like, let's do this, let's do this, let's do this,” but then we didn't think about anything maybe that we did. And I have fallen into that trap myself, I'm going to be really honest, you know, here, because it's fun, you know, it's fun to do all of these STEM things, but it's also important that we think about what we've done and reflect on what we've done and try to kind of take it, I guess you could say, to the next level. And that, I think, is what the NGSS standards we're hoping to kind of avoid, you know, too, that we would look in depth at certain topics and really dig into them a little bit more. And so, you know, again, it's about keeping that big goal in mind when you're teaching, what is it that I really want people to walk away from this unit or this lesson plan with? Absolutely. So, before we wrap up, kind of looking at the STEM, STEM in the classroom, are there any, any ways that you might recommend to make those big ideas stick? Yeah, we have, five great ones here. The first one is just, I would start or make sure that you use kid friendly language. You know, we want to build vocabulary, of course, with the people that are working with. But make sure it's also, you know, understandable. I think using a variety of examples, maybe, and, and touching on a concept more than once is great, and so you want to revisit it, you know, over time. I think encouraging youth to lead the learning and then to also have rich discussions is another key. And to share their thinking, you know, with other people. And then, of course, assessing for application and not just recall. And so asking them to apply it in some new way. Yeah, absolutely.“How might this come up in your life otherwise?”“You know, if you see the same situation come up when you're on the farm, what might you do?” Ways that it's not just, “well, I can recite it for you.” I love all those ideas. One of the notes I have is that when you learn ways to solve problems, explain new situations, that's really deep learning. It's not that surface level learning, and I love that. So do you have any final takeaways for parents as, we we're not done with this episode yet, but we're moving in some other areas, and we're going to move outside the classroom. Do you have any takeaways for parents on what the big idea here is when we're looking at the classroom setting? I think if if there's something I could maybe suggest to parents, it would be to ask their children,“why do you think that,” you know, or something along those lines, like to ask them to explain their thinking because we've shifted them from activity mania to reflection and thinking. And so you get to ask the question, why? Finally, right? Why? Why? You can I ask that question I love it, no that's great. Oh I love that. So it, you know it, we can look at what is really happening in that classroom, what to look for, those sorts of things. But you know, we want, we know parents want their children to have the best education possible. And we hope that the subjects in school set them up for success after school, too. So we know that now more than ever, there are opportunities for youth and young people to learn STEM in a wide array of settings, Sara. What does that look like? Can you help us think through that concept of beyond the school? Yeah, and I think they’re really important piece of the STEM puzzle and can be really impactful for students. And so you know, many of us do think that a lot of STEM learning happens primarily in classrooms. And a lot of fabulous learning does happen in our classrooms. But, you know, some of the most impactful learning can also happen outside, you know, those classrooms with a lot of great partners here around the state. So that might include places like clubs, summer programs, museums, parks, and even online activities. But to me, the really exciting part, you know, about that is that there's growing evidence that these out-of-school opportunities really do directly affect what's possible inside classrooms and vice versa. And so it becomes this two way learning streeter, this, this great partnership between school and out-of-school time. Absolutely. So there are a wide range, kind of throwing this in here, there's a wide range of opportunities. And I'm plugging it, because we haven't done so yet, but you actually work with the 4-H program. But people might think 4-H just the club, or is just showing animals, but it has such a wide range of things too. So there are camps often and there's afterschool programs. It kind of depends on your area, but that's kind of just a starting point. But there are so many different opportunities even with under the 4-H umbrella, and the youth under, umbrella within Extension and Outreach. But we don't want to just limit to that. But it's just kind of a little there to kind of what, where we're starting from. That moves us into the National Research Council reports that indicate, the report indicates that effective out of school programs can make significant contributions to our kids development. So would you go through some of those data points with us? Yeah, sure. So these programs can really boost young people's interest in and understanding of STEM, and again, they can be really great partners to what's ever been taught, you know, in school. And again, these programs in the out of school time setting, are really not about memorizing facts. They're more about gaining experiences. And experiences, I think, are just really great at not only helping you understand STEM, but I think they in fact impact literacy and math and other things you know well too. Absolutely. So we have that kind of boost in interest, but then it also gives, people a chance to connect young people to caring adults who can serve as role models. And a role model can be very impactful in a student's life. You know, even if you think about, you know, your own life, I'm sure there are a couple people that really stand out that really impacted your educational journey. And so these out-of-school time settings are a great place to find some role models, too. Just imagine your child, you know, meeting an engineer, a scientist, or a tech innovator who inspires them, you know, and you never know, maybe works with them, you know, later on down the road, too. Yes, that eventually they might be your colleague. But yeah, you know, you can be their mentor. I oh, I love that. I'm just thinking that, yeah, I'm thinking about, like, people in my life that I had. But I'm also hoping that, like, I can be that to some kids to throughout our community. So I love that one. Will you talk about reducing the achievement gap as well? Yeah, and so, you know, if you think about it, getting extra time in STEM or whatever topic it might be helps you advance your learning, you know, really. And so it can help you, you know, advance your learning, gain your skills and all of that. And so as a whole, these programs, I think, can help reduce any achievement gaps, you know, that might exist from a for a variety of reasons. Because, again, the more experiences, you know, that we know our high quality, we can provide our students, the better it'll be for their learning overall. So as you're talking about, you know, the quality, what are the sorts of things that parents could be looking for in and out of school STEM program for their child, so they're looking for a program to get their child into, right? What sorts of things should they look for that will tell them that, you know, that program might be a good fit or might be effective? Yeah. Well, there's kind of three themes here that the report shared and that was that programs that engage, connect, and respond, you know, to youth are typically, you know, the best ones are the ones you want to see if you can find. And so for engagement, you know, if you think about it, if you actively involved children intellectually, maybe socially and emotionally through hands on experiences, sustained STEM practices and a supportive learning community, man, I'd want to send my kid there. And so, you know, any time you have high engagement, I think that's a good program to be looking at. The second thing would be that respond or responsiveness, you know, does the program allow for young people to be thinking? Does it respond to their interests? Does it promote collaboration and leadership? Does it treat staff as co learners alongside the youth? I think if you could see that again, that's another great, representation or another great thing to look for in a program. And then that last word connect, strong programs, you know, really do linked STEM learning across school, home and community settings. They use local resources and they really help guide families towards future STEM opportunities. And so, you know, think about that. Maybe look at their websites, and different things, talk to parents that have maybe sent their children, you know, to these programs to, but as a rule, if it is an engaging program, if it's responsive and it's connecting, you know, youth, in different ways, I think you've probably got a good program there. That’s awesome. So you actually what you said kind of leads us into our next section is we've talked about the school, we've talked about out of school activities, afterschool, weekends, those sorts of things, summer programs. Let's talk about STEM at home. What can parents do to integrate STEM within their home? That's a really good question. And I don't want people to think they have to do a full lesson plan here to have great STEM at home. You can, literally just talk about some of the things that are going on, you know, around you think about in the things that you're doing. Where's the science, technology, engineering, math? But here's a couple other, ideas too. So one is, you know, think about authentic tasks. What is something that you maybe need to have, you know, completed at home? Is there a challenge, you know, something that might matter in the community, that your child, you know, could look at, too? You know, again, I think it's all about looking around you and saying, “okay, I could use my STEM skills to maybe solve this challenge or address this, you know, issue or that type of thing.” And so creating authentic tests. Absolutely. Yeah. I think my, this is one of my favorite ones, is using the engineering design process. We've all innovated and made something without maybe all of us thinking about it. You like, maybe you dropped something down a deep hole and you had to make something that you could lower down into the holes to grab the thing and pick it up. You know, that's all the engineering design process. And so, you know, again, guiding them through planning, building, testing and then improving, is a great way to do that. So say you build even a tower, you know, at home order blocks, those kinds of things, but it can only go so high.“Okay, let's talk about it.” Like, “how can I build this tower taller,” you know, “what can I do? Let's improve it, and let's use that engineering design process again, and if it fails, that's okay. That's part of the process too. Let's just try again.” And so using the engineering design process. And as you talk about the engineering design process, you said it, you know, we do that, it's a, it's a cycle, and we often see as adults, we see the process where it doesn't stop, right? It goes in a circle. So using that and applying it to their situation really continues to build real life skills, which leads us into the next point is to connect the dots. So how can we help kids see that it relates to what they're building? How do we help them connect to their future self and what is happening now versus, and also connecting things like how science and math relate right? Yeah. Connecting the dots typically can just happen through discussion, you know, too. And so really helping kids see how science and math relate to what they're doing or building. You know, again, I know literacy is such a, you know, critical piece in something that you've talked about, you know, in your podcast, but having those science discussions and using as much science language as you can is also really helpful so that they can make connections, not only from what's maybe going out at home, but then when they get into the classroom. Maybe some of that same language is used in it helps, you know, in that situation too. And so often it's just discussion for connecting the dots. You know, that kind of thing. You know, we talk about literacy, so last season we had a whole season on literacy, and it's, I mean, it's integrated learning just in general, right? So as we build vocabulary around science and technology and engineering and math and ag and all of the things around us, right, as we start to learn about those things and be in those environments and see bridges and roads and have the language, guess what, that's what that also builds literacy. So it plays back and forth. So absolutely, I love the little kind of, I shouldn't say integration because we've using, we, we’ve used that word, but you're integrating the, the different aspects as well. Yeah. Yeah. I think another thing is to structure, you know, teamwork to focus on helping with the teamwork part. So yes, I have two brothers. We didn't always get along, and so sometimes it didn't quite work out. But, you know, like if you're working with siblings or friends, you know, can we assign roles or just encourage everybody, you know, to contribute ideas. And then we've talked about this before, but assessing the process and not, you know, just the product. And so focusing on helping people, celebrate effort, and their creativity and their problem solving, I think is a really important thing. I think it's really, I think actually knowing that it's okay to fail, and that's actually part of the process, is, is really important. And there are thousands, if not millions, of examples of that kind of out, you know, in the world of somebody trying to invent something and it did not work the first time. There you go again, making me get goosebumps, right? It's okay, it's okay to have things fail because that's how you learn, right? That's how you learn and grow and figure out, well what actually will work better. So it's appreciating that process, assessing that process. Absolutely. It's not, so we're looking at integrated STEM, and it's not just about doing science.“Science guy.” I just, you know, the Bill Nye song, But Bill Nye was pretty good about integrating some science things. But, anyway, you know, integrated science is more than just the word science, right? It's not just a noun, like you said, it's a verb. It's helping kids to think, create, solve those problems in real life. Exactly. You know, the more we can support kids, you know, in not only getting STEM opportunities, but applying and thinking about the processes of STEM, I think, you know, the better. And then if you think about it, we're really helping prepare them for potential future complex challenges. You know, that they may face. And honestly, that's just a great life skill to have. As you, you know, go through your life, the ability to ask and answer questions and problem solve around it is I think, one of the key skills that we can develop. Absolutely. So as we wrap up this conversation, I have one kind of last question for you. Everything we've talked about is kind of a lot. Do parents have to know everything about integrated STEM, about how to use it in the home, what we need to do, or, you know, what would be your last note to parents who are listening to us today? I think to just kind of move along side with your child in the asking and answering of questions. Because you can find the answers together. And in that process, you have a ton of fun, if I'm being honest. Usually, and you also build some really great memories, you know, together. So not only are you learning STEM and all of that, but you're having this time together where you're asking and answering questions, but yet you're also trying to let your child lead, you know, the learning and lead that asking and answering questions. But you know, you don't need to know everything. Absolutely not. Like there is no way to know everything. Like I, I, the elementary teachers I work with, I, I say that like “you literally can't know all of these science disciplines.” And so I think about instead, “okay, how can I instead help my students ask and answer questions,” or “how can I help my child ask and answer questions?” And I think also, I really want to stress, just even asking them to share their thinking like,“why do you think that,” changes the nature of the conversation too. And it really deepens it. So I just hope you all have fun. You know, with your STEM that you're going to be doing together. Just have fun, do it together and explore and learn. And honestly, I learned the most when I dive into those conversations, like with my niece and nephews. They ask a question I don't know, let's figure it out. Let's, let's problem solve. So I love that. You don't have to know at all, and our parents should know by now, we aren't looking for perfect parents. We're looking for, you know, willing to learn, willing to jump in and, again, have some fun. That's awesome. So in closing, I kind of just said it, but there are ways for STEM to be integrated in school, in out-of-school school programs, at home. And it's just being intentional about bringing in questions, bringing in ideas and exploration into everyday life. And it's important to remember that STEM is important for long term life skill building. So any last minute notes before we wrap here, Sara? You know, the only thing I might want to share here is that STEM is really for everyone. And I think we need to encourage everyone to at least consider it, you know, and so, you know, okay, I know I'm a STEM person, but, you know, even, I just really want to stress that that STEM is really for everyone. And so, please, you know, make sure to encourage your children, you know, to explore these different topics and maybe even explore some of the careers, you know, later on in life. And look for partners, you know, on this STEM journey, whether it's, you know, Iowa 4-H, The Space Grant, all these other great partners we have around on the state, we really want to be there to help you, you know, on that STEM journey. So please ask, and we will do our best, to help you. Absolutely. And as you say that, is there any way to find those resources? So there are a couple ways. One way, of course, is to go to some of the websites, you know, for these different groups. Iowa 4-H has a great website. The Space Grant has a website up. The Governor's STEM Advisory Council also has some great resources for parents, you know, and other things too. So you could go to, some of those things, but also I think your school, or some of the STEM museums and things, you know, in your neighborhood are great resources. And then, you know, in addition, it could be your neighbor, you know, somebody that's does STEM for their career. You know, they can be a great resource, you know, also, as as you think about, where you might want to help your child. Absolutely. Well, Sara, thank you so much for joining. We've talked all things STEM integration today and it's been a lot of fun. I've had fun integrating into this conversation. Thank you for joining us on The Science of Parenting podcast. Listeners, before you go, remember to check out your local resources. Check out those resources available to you. Sometimes I plug my own, our own resources, but today I'm going to plug Iowa 4-H and all those other amazing resources that Sara mentioned, so. With that, Sara, will you bring us out today? Happily. Thank you. So come along as we tackle the ups and downs, the ins and outs and the research and reality all around The Science of Parenting. The Science of Parenting is a research-based education program hosted by Mackenzie DeJong-Schelling, produced and edited by Brock Beirman, with contributions from Barbara Dunn-Swanson, Dr. Connie Beecher, Hailey Walker, and Morgan Newell. Send in questions and comments to parenting@iastate.edu and connect with us on Facebook. This program is brought to you by Iowa State University Extension and Outreach.