When it comes to payments, it’s no secret that digital is dominating the ecosystem. This, we know. But what about Americans that are either unbanked or underbanked… those that don’t have access to the technology or have the resources required to take advantage of the perks digital disruption provides?
In today’s podcast, Paysafecash VP of Strategic Business Development Jan Marc Kuelper and RentMoola’s Chief Product Officer Jean-Francois Brissot come together to speak about the current landscape of the underbanked demographic and the strides they are proactively making to support this population.
The ultimate goal? To make the life of the cash consumer as easy as possible.
A creative thinker with 25 years of thinking about all things Fintech, Jean-Francois Brissot is the Chief Product Officer for RentMoola. RentMoola simplifies property payments into one efficient, secure platform. Jean-Francois oversees product innovation, engineering and customer success.
Also, a big player in the Fintech space and my other guest on this podcast, Jan Marc Kuelper oversees the eCash business (both Paysafecard and Paysafecash) in the United States, with the responsibility of pursuing strategic partnerships to accelerate international expansion.
Together, they provide some much-needed insight into our lingering dependency on cash, the financial challenges caused by the global pandemic and the impact this has on some of their target verticals (specifically, the rental market).
When it comes to payments, it’s no secret that digital is dominating the ecosystem. This, we know. But what about Americans that are either unbanked or underbanked… those that don’t have access to the technology or have the resources required to take advantage of the perks digital disruption provides?
In today’s podcast, Paysafecash VP of Strategic Business Development Jan Marc Kuelper and RentMoola’s Chief Product Officer Jean-Francois Brissot come together to speak about the current landscape of the underbanked demographic and the strides they are proactively making to support this population.
The ultimate goal? To make the life of the cash consumer as easy as possible.
A creative thinker with 25 years of thinking about all things Fintech, Jean-Francois Brissot is the Chief Product Officer for RentMoola. RentMoola simplifies property payments into one efficient, secure platform. Jean-Francois oversees product innovation, engineering and customer success.
Also, a big player in the Fintech space and my other guest on this podcast, Jan Marc Kuelper oversees the eCash business (both Paysafecard and Paysafecash) in the United States, with the responsibility of pursuing strategic partnerships to accelerate international expansion.
Together, they provide some much-needed insight into our lingering dependency on cash, the financial challenges caused by the global pandemic and the impact this has on some of their target verticals (specifically, the rental market).
Welcome to the leaders in payments podcast, where we talk to C-level leaders from across the payments landscape, we'll be discussing the products and services that impact the payment space today, as well as trends and predictions for the future of payments. We will also hear stories from our guests about their journeys to the top.
Speaker 2:This is episode 124, and is our second episode in our special series on financial inclusion. When it comes to payments, it's no secret that digital is dominating that ecosystem. This we know, but what about Americans that are either unbanked or underbanked, those that don't have access to the technology or have the resources required to take advantage of the perks digital disruption provides and today's podcast, Paysafe Cassius VP of strategic business development, Yon, mark helper, and rent Mulas chief product officer John friends' Whopper said come together to speak about the current landscape of the under-banked demographic and the strides they are proactively making to support this population. The ultimate goal to make the life of the cash consumer as easy as possible, a creative thinker with 25 years of thinking about all things FinTech Jean-Francois or set is the chief product officer of rent Moolah rent Mulla simplifies property payments into one efficient secure platform. Jean-Francois oversees, product innovation, engineering and customer success. Also a big player in the FinTech space. And my other guests on this podcast, Yanmar helper oversees the E cash business, both Paysafe card and Paysafe cash in the United States with the responsibility of pursuing strategic partnerships to accelerate international expansion together, they provide some much needed insight into our lingering dependency on cash. The financial challenges caused by the global pandemic and the impact this has on some of their target verticals, specifically the rental market. We've got a great episode today, so let's jump right in
Speaker 3:[inaudible].
Speaker 2:Hi, John mark, and John Francois. Thank you so much for being on the show today. This is the leaders in payments podcast, and I'm your host, Greg Meyers. We've got a great episode today, focused on financial inclusion. So thank you both so much for being on the show today.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thanks for having me. It's really a pleasure to share the stage with you and Jean-Marc today.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, let's just dive into the questions, Yon mark, to set the scene. Can you provide us with an overview of how significant of an issue financial collusion is in the United States and maybe in terms of sheer numbers of under-banked and un-banked Americans?
Speaker 5:Yes, absolutely. If we talk about financial inclusion, we're talking about twenty-five percent or in other words, one out of four Americans who do not either have a bank account or only have very limited exit to online financial services. If we talk for example about households, it's more than 35 million households in the us, which are being either under or unbanked, this alone is a pretty large number of people who are being financially excluded in the U S right now. But if you deep a little bit deeper and talk about, for example, ethnic minorities, disproportionality is even higher. So on average, 42% of the Americans of an ethnic minority are either under or unbanked. And to give you some concrete examples of cities or counties, I just looked up a few counties. So one is a consequence Starr county in Texas, where we have more than 60% of the population being under unbanked. But even if you go into the largest cities, for example, to New York and to the Bronx, we are still talking about 48% on Miami date, 25% of the people who are living there are either on a banked or unbanked. So in our meaning, this is a huge challenge for the rental market. The question is how can these people pay their rent? What kind of services on the market to simplify rent payments, and fact is that cash or checks that the handling of this is very time time-consuming risky for both for the renters as well as for the landlords. So there's clearly a need for innovative solutions to solve this kind of challenge.
Speaker 2:So those are some pretty astounding numbers when you think about it, percentages and pure numbers. So in addition to that question, I wanted to have you address the COVID-19 situation and has this situation and issue of financial inclusion or financial exclusion gotten actually worse with these low income consumers.
Speaker 5:Yes, for sure. We do see basically two main topics on the one side, the health issue, and on the other side, the number of cash customers or people who need to pay in cash. So on the one hand side, the health issue cash payments have become extremely risky, independent. They are complicated and are still a burden to do for many people talking about the cash aspect of this because of COVID more and more tenants live from paycheck to paycheck at the moment, going back to something like a year from today, the unemployment rate skyrocketed in early 2020 from four to 14%. Now it's back at 5.2%, but this shows that over the last year, basically there are many, many people who live from paycheck to paycheck or really had serious challenges and pay their rent. And additionally, many of the so-called gig economy workers who are being paid very irregularly and very often in cash. So meaning basically, sometimes people do have bank accounts, but they do not have available funds in the bank account to pay their rent. And in many, many cases, cash is basically the ultimate and last means of payment for these kinds of people. In other words, the challenges of following on the one hand side, you have chaplains who want or need to pay in cash, and then you have property managers or landlords who don't want to handle cash anymore because it's risky, risky for their health and so on and so forth. Then I give you an example. I personally, I lived in New York a couple of years ago, and what I did is I paid my property manager every month with a check. So he was sitting in the basement of the building and every single month I visited him in the basement and paid in cash. And I guess I was one of the lucky ones because other people need to go to a single payment location across town queue up between 10:00 AM and noon. These people are being put on risk because they are forced to go there to queue up, to wait in line with other people, especially in the pandemic. So again, there is a need for payment solutions in the market that address exactly these kinds of challenges and have these people towards financial inclusion last but not least. Another point is the so-called stimulus check. People have been paid and the U S in cash or with this checks. And again, this is a huge number of additional people who basically, who are forced to pay their bills and rents and so on and cash.
Speaker 2:Great. Well, thank you for that. So John Francoise, let's turn to you. Let's zoom in on the rental space that your platform rent Moolah serves. How do those issues that were just described for the unbanked and underbanked in Americans? How does that impact their payment of rent? Like how serious of an issue is it for them when making these monthly payments?
Speaker 4:Well, obviously it's a very serious issue. First of all, rent Moolah is one of the leading platform for collecting rent. And we cover us and Canada markets for rents that represent one of the largest, if not the largest recurring payments and can represent up to 50% of the tenant household income in the U S all platform, any payment platform are reconsidered as mission critical for alternate, for paying their rent on time. And on time is critical right here and for the landlord to collect their revenue. So if you look at the 25% of the unbanked or underbanked population versus 48 million of renters in this population, certainly represent median of tenants who are unbanked and underbanked. And these people, while they still need to put a roof over their head, they need to pay their rent on time, like, like, and renters, and just, we call what Jean-Marc was saying. COVID has made it worse for a few reasons. Obviously, as soon as the COVID started lots of landlords, if not all the landlords and last property manager, or they had to shut up. So they were no longer offering the possibility for tenants to just show up in the office and pay their rent in cash. That's has been a real critical issue. In addition to the trend, the digital or digitization trends with payment that has re accelerated with the COVID and Joseph appointees, as Yanmar pointed out, we at 75% of the us population who lives from paycheck to paycheck, and for them one day matters, meaning that a large part of the population we cannot afford to send money ahead of time to ensure that if you have money order, for example, to ensure that the payment will arrive on time, they have rehab to make the payment at the last minute when they cash their check, or when they receive the payment. This is where it's very critical for them to show consistency and visibility on their payment. And it is important to have a solution with a payment platform that would consolidate all type of payment that would offer that visibility to the landlord that the tenant is paying. Even if it's in cash, in a consistent and predicted.
Speaker 2:Are there any other challenges that you feel the unbanked or underbanked have when they need to pay their rent? Well,
Speaker 4:Gritty is definitely one of the challenge for the tenant to have to carry some cash and go to a place as though it's a dicey to the landlord place. And that can only be at certain time during the day when the office is open and they have to do their job most of the time during the same hours, and also for the landlord to carry money for the rent that they collect. So secret is definitely a challenge that has to be addressed as,
Speaker 2:So y'all mark back to you. We hear a lot about the death of cash and obviously the dominance of digital payments. Do you feel like cash is still king for the un-banked and under-banked Americans, including when they pay their rent?
Speaker 5:I would call this kind of a payment dilemma, which is rising in the U S on the one hand side, you have great innovations, new digital payment options, new technologies, and everything to simplify payments. But on the other hand, you have this massive challenge. What we just discussed for the undone underbanked. Their biggest problem is not to make a payment as convenient as possible to make it even without any interaction. That biggest problem is how can I pay my daily bills, my rent, and how can I do it efficiently and most important safely. So we need to be extremely careful not to forget these kinds of people. When we talk about digital payments, I would even go one step further and say, we need to be careful not to discriminate them because in the end, again, these are the 25% who have a massive, massive problem. They need to have new ways to, to simplify the payment needs based on their abilities, what they can do. And to be honest, it's not only about the underbanked in the U S it's still the 31% of all transactions in the U S that are still in cash. So to give another example of the importance of this topic, this topic is also addressed on the political level where the discussion is about keeping cash as a mandatory payment option for offline businesses. So I'm talking here about the payment choice act, which is actually done by both artists, that cities, and there are states basically, which by law for bit to abandon cash in stores and putting all this together or putting a long story short for sure cash is and will continue to be a very, very important payment method in the U S the only question for the rental market is, is there a solution to solve this payment dilemma? And in my mind that two steps, so on the first step is basically, are there any offerings in the market that allow payments in cash? So in other words, can tenants use cash, pay their rent an easy and convenient way? Is it possible that cash will be automatically converted into electronic cash? Because the landlords want to see electronic cash and want to have the rent automatic B's being settled into that bank at cons. In other words, are there any other solutions which are either then checks money orders, cash payments itself? And then the second step is basically how can you combine these cash or cash payments with the newest trends and audit to give the tenants a possibility to make even IE cash payments as convenient as possible?
Speaker 2:I think that's a great segue into the next question. Obviously, your companies pay safe cash product is an easy cash or online cash solution. So can you tell us more about that in a second part of the question is, can you tell us about the value of promoting financial inclusion in both the U S for consumers and merchants?
Speaker 5:Yeah, absolutely. Knowing basically the challenges for the banks in the U S we developed a solution to solve exactly the problems we just discussed before and to drive financial inclusion. Not every one has basically the technical equipment to do electronic payments. So therefore solutions should be as easy and straightforward as possible, and should also be accessible to people who don't have a smartphone, a computer, and so on. And therefore, basically we developed a product called pace of cash by SF cash is extremely simple from the use case, under case of rent Moola, you simply lock into your payment portal from rent Mueller. You say, Hey, I want to pay with cash. You click on Paysafe cash, and then a barcode will be generated. And you simply take this bar code to any one of our more than 65,000 point of sales in the U S like seven 11, CVS dollar general and so on. And you simply show the barcode there and say, I want to make a cash payment at this convenience stores. The backup will be skinned. You pay in cash, and then the transaction is completed. In other words, we get informed in real time about the payment. We will inform rent Mueller or Mueller can inform the property manager that the payment has been made. So it's basically as easy it's theirs. And what we say, it's basically a way for the landlord to accept cash without the hassle to handle cash. So pace of cash is not a competition to any other payment methods like credit or debit cards is simply an addition to give a completely different target group, the possibility to make electronic payments again, the cash customers,
Speaker 2:Hey, everyone. This is your host, Greg Myers. And as many of you already know, October is financial inclusion month. And we're going to be talking about all of the products, services, and ways that the payments and FinTech industry helps support the under-banked and unbanked a special thanks to our title sponsors, the clearing house and Paysafe cash, as well as our principal sponsor instant financial. Now, back to the show, Starting to use Jean-Francois your platform added Paysafe cash as an easy cash payment method for rental payments earlier this year. So from your perspective, can you explain the benefits of cash to first the renters? So the un-banked and under-banked that we've been talking about. And then secondly, the value of it to the landlords or the property owners
Speaker 4:At Franklin, our vision and our mission is to help people pay their rent. We cannot leave anyone behind. So we are dealing with a very loud diversity of tenants, whether it's in term of culture or generation tech savviness, and we really endeavor to allow alternatives to make a payment with their preferred payment, and definitely cash is the solution for Southern part of the population. Whereas there is the population we mentioned for the under back on bank, but also some people, even if they have bank account, this still prefer to make payment in cash. So cash is really the solution that offer the flexibility for all these people to make the payment. They have the flexibility in term of location, because as Matt mentioned, there are 65,000 different places or point of sales in the us where they can make a payment, the flexible of timing. They can make the payments outside of their working hour of during the weekend, where it's really convenient for them, the flexibility to make the payment when they can make the payment, meaning when they have received their salary. It also offer the visibility for the landlord because as you and Matt mentioned, as soon as the payment is done at the point of sales, we know, and we can inform the landlord, the landlord doesn't need to wait to see the payment on their bank account immediately. Even first, they see if a landlord has requested a backward, which is the first action in the workflow, then they can see when the payment has been done. And finally, obviously they will see when they have received and being able to make payment on time and receiving payment on time is critical for the tenants so that they don't incur any late fee, but the property manager or the landlord, they have an obligation on their side. They have financial obligation on their site as well. They have to pay expenses, they have to pay mortgages and they need to have the visibility on when the payment, in addition to the security that we talk about before that, uh, it provides where people no longer, at least for their lender, they not only have to carry a pretty large amount of cash, but as well for the tenant because of the flexibility to make the payment whenever and wherever they want. And also believe that despite the digitization trends and the acceleration during the COVID in reality, the us has a long way from a cashless society and pre cash has a long life ahead as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. As a host of a show who interviews, payments companies, we've been talking about this digital dominance and cash going away. And the other one that we talk about are the writing of checks. That's going to go away. I don't know, maybe I'm a naysayer, but I think that cash and check writing as much as we may want it to go away. It's still going to be around for a long, long time. So Jamar back to you, if he cash solve certain problems for the un-banked and under-banked in relation to rent payments, what challenges remain for both the renter and the landlord or property management from their perspective.
Speaker 5:So I think we just talked about challenges from the customer perspective, but cash in general is also solving problem for the landlord or the property manager in general, talking about the increase of efficiency due to automatic electronic payments, or in general, that there is no cost for cash handling anymore. No need to keep a physical office open. What SWAT just said that basically they're these kinds of offices from the property manager were closed due to COVID. So we can basically massively reduce, or each cash can massively reduce the operational costs on this side as well. Also, one extremely important point about EKG in general, and the characteristic of each cash is at the second, you are doing a payment at a convenience store and pay for your barcode. These funds are guaranteed. So by definition, they are no chargebacks possible in contrast to other means of payments. This also gives the property manager or the landlord an additional level of security, because again, we are talking about cash payments, which are very often done on the very, very last day. And then if you have on top chargeback risk, then this could be an issue. And cash is basically also solving this kind of risk. So in short, besides all the topics we discussed from an customer perspective or the landlords, there are increases of efficiency, less cost on our operational side. And these kinds of payments are also safe compared to other payments. When we talk about chargebacks,
Speaker 2:Okay, John Francois, anything you'd like to add to that?
Speaker 4:Yeah. We talk about the payment making the payment for the rent, but there isn't as a challenge for this population as well is supposed to be able to be approved by your landlord or property manager. This is the whole process of the tenant screening, and we have the old fashioned credit score background shake it's still happening, but there is a train now for the landlord that they found to be more reliable is the bank account analysis. It's really being able to look at the tenant bank accounts or asking when the tenant will submit an application for property, or you need to link their bank account so that we can put information on historical information. And obviously this is not possible for people who are paying in cash and cash could be certainly one of those potential solution for that, because there is traceability. And when the payment is done on the platform like rent Mueller, we have the history of all the cash payment, and we can retrieve all this history and use that, or the tenant can use it when they apply for the unit and demonstrate that they have been able to pay their rent in a consistent manner, even if it's with cash. So I think IE cash and the transparency and traceability will also super the under-banked population to have better access to rain.
Speaker 2:So during the application process, the landlord could see if they've used any cash to pay rent maybe to another landlord.
Speaker 4:Yes, exactly. Okay. We will start with this information on our platform. So we are able to pull this history irrespective of the payment.
Speaker 2:Okay. I'm sure that's very valuable to the landlord to be able to do that. Cause I was sort of thinking as we were talking, is that a challenge? And obviously you guys have addressed that. So we've talked about financial inclusion in the rental space and how it can be addressed today and some of the challenges, but this question is for both of you, but beyond mark, we'll start with you. What about the future? Do you think that a sizeable amount of these un-banked and under-banked will be assimilated into digital payments mainstream over the next few years? I mean, that's sort of the first part of the question. And then the second part is what will the future be for rental payments via online methods like rent Moola or even in person?
Speaker 5:I think it's always the customer and their needs need to stay in focus, especially at the one who has been forgotten by the other industries who digitalized, without thinking of cash or line customers, meaning we need to know what exactly are the problems or the cash customers. And then basically we need to build solutions which are exactly addressing these kinds of needs or the customer segments. So I'm talking on the one hand side on the really high technical gen Z generation, but also on the other hand to elderly people who perhaps who don't have a smartphone or a computer, what kind of services can we offer them in order to pay in cash? It's not only about the question, is it cash or is it credit card or whatsoever? It's also a question. How can you bring basically each cash to the different target group, the highly technical ones to the ones who don't have access to any technologies. And then obviously the second question is how can you develop solutions from people who have the fixed salary, the fixed income to people who are basically paid based on the hours they're working and perhaps also in the gig economy also paying them cash. And I think if you are able to design new products around exactly these skills, and if you can answer exactly these kinds of questions, then we will come into two scenarios on the one hand side. What we discussed earlier today that cash is and will stay dominant in the U S for a very, very long time. But on the other hand, the second question is how can we use the evolving technologies to make life of the cash customer as easy as possible. And rent Mueller is doing a great job with innovative products for them, where we are basically acknowledged trying to combine cash customers with very, very easy technical means of
Speaker 2:John Francoise. Same questions for you. Do you think that a sizeable amount of unbanked or underbanked will be assimilated into this digital payments mainstream over the next five or 10 years? And then second part is what will the future of rental payments be like both for online platforms like rent, Moolah and in person
Speaker 4:After 10 years is a pretty long time horizon, especially in the space where technology is evolving very, very fast, the way we've seen the evolution over the past five, 10 years, it's just amazing in the, in the payment space. So it's easy to predict how it's going to be in 10 years from now. But yeah, definitely. I think that the trend we go into are the payment digitization, and that will include also the unbanked or underbanked population as you and Mac mentioned. There are ways for us to improve the workflow for us and takes two pays. One of the option that we have implemented. We have more than 95% of the U S population. I think it's an 87% of the us population. We have some sort of mobile phone. So we've been working to expose the cash to text messages so that it's improving the workflow and people, we just receive a text message with a code when their rent is due. That's going to make the workflow and their user experience much more ser and easier for all type of population, whether they are tech savvy on that. I think also that there are pre evolution that we come with, the URL, the solution for financial inclusion and the way to transform cash into cash, a tenant or individual would be able to charge their wallet with cash and pay their rent, any type of payment, like security deposit also, for example. So yeah, we will definitely see, see evolution in the market. We can see that they will also be options for transfer rent. Now, Bellator, there is a boom now in the market with the buy. Now pay later that is translated into the right now pay later real-time payment. Definitely also we see that happening not only for the business to business or peer to peer, but for being the right as well, it will come and people will be able to pay their rent real time with the benefit of your sleeve for the landlord to collect immediate payment.
Speaker 2:Well, Hey, we've covered a lot of ground about financial inclusion in general and related to the rental space. Just wanted to see if there was anything else, John mark, that maybe you wanted to add that we haven't touched on.
Speaker 5:And this is about financial inclusion and we set a lot of things about rent payments, but in general, if you take basically a wider approach, absolutely the same challenges apply. If you need to pay your bills, your utility bills, your healthcare booze and your government of booths and so on. So if you take this on another level, the importance of each cash towards financial inclusion is in many, many verticals with nearly the same argumentation and the same number of people who really have challenges to do this. And as we also said to you on the rent payment space on the one hand side, the question is how can I pay my bills rent at all, but also to use each cash as basically as a mechanism to make the last minute payment. So this is what we just said before. If I'm not paying my rent until I don't know, Friday off this week, I get really serious challenges from my landlord, but I don't have any funds on my credit card or my bank account left. So taking this as very, very important point, if you are talking about government payments, loan service providing or whatsoever. So in short cash and the ability to offer electronic cash to this huge population is a massive opportunity for many, many verticals beyond
Speaker 2:Rent payments, anything you'd like to add?
Speaker 4:Well, I think we cover almost all the topics. Cash is a way to support population who are Acer in the need, or we don't have access to the same technology of cannot just open a bank account for many different reasons. So we see cash as a way to support all communities of renters. It has a positive impact, a positive social impact. And as we said before, we don't anticipate that cash. We go away in a very near,
Speaker 2:Well, thank you both for being on the show today. I really appreciate you spending the time to discuss this very important topic. So thanks again for being here and for being on the show.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Great. Thank you.
Speaker 2:And to all you listeners out there, I thank you for your time as well, and until the next store.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us this week on the leaders in payments podcast, make sure you visit our website@leadersinpayments.com, where you can subscribe to the show and where you'll find our show notes. If you enjoyed listening, please share on your social channels as well.