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Leaders In Payments
Leaders In Payments
Special Series: The Future of Modern Payments featuring Block and JP Morgan Payments | Episode 457
Cash flow used to mean waiting and worrying. Today, it can mean deciding and doing. We sit down with Ana Garcia of JPMorgan Payments and James Chi of Block to unpack how real-time payments are reshaping the small business playbook - turning every sale into instantly usable working capital and replacing uncertainty with visibility you can act on.
Ana pulls back the curtain on how instant payments actually work: APIs or portals trigger transactions, banks authenticate and screen for fraud and compliance, networks like The Clearing House RTP clear and settle, and funds land in seconds with instant confirmation. James maps those capabilities to real merchant needs - Square’s instant transfers to linked accounts, immediate spend via Square Checking, and faster marketplace payouts for merchants - showing how speed enables on-time payroll, proactive inventory management, and smoother refunds.
We also get real about adoption. Many owners still don’t know they can move money this fast, so education in context is key - surfacing instant options exactly when cash is tight. On safety, both leaders emphasize layered defenses: identity checks, behavioral analytics, transaction limits, and step-up authentication, proving you don’t need to trade security for speed.
Looking forward, we explore request for payment for cleaner collections, the march toward near-universal bank coverage, and the promise of cross-border instant payments that could redefine supplier and marketplace flows. If you care about liquidity, predictability, and customer trust, this conversation shows how real-time payments turn pressure into momentum.
This episode is part of our special series on The Future of Modern Payments sponsored by The Clearing House.
Welcome to the Future of Modern Payments, a special podcast series sponsored by the Clearinghouse, the U.S. payments operator that provides safe, reliable, and efficient clearing and settlement networks. In this series, we'll explore how innovation, collaboration, and client insights are shaping the future of payments. From real-world use cases to forward-looking strategies and the evolving voice of the customer.
SPEAKER_03:Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Leaders in Payments Podcast. I'm your host, Greg Myers. Running a small business means living on the edge of cash flow, waiting for funds to clear, juggling supplier invoices, and managing payroll deadlines that don't wait. In this episode, leaders from JP Morgan Payments and Block discuss how instant payments are transforming that experience. We'll explore what a day in the life of a small business looks like in a world where every dollar counts and timing is everything. From getting paid faster to paying suppliers immediately, we'll look at how instant payments are easing daily financial pressures, improving cash flow visibility, and helping entrepreneurs move from surviving to scaling. Today's special guests are James Chi, Head of Bank Partnerships and Operations at Block, and Anna Garcia, Executive Director Real-Time Payments at JPMorgan Chase. So, James, Anna, thank you both for being here and welcome to the show. Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for having us.
SPEAKER_03:So before we dive into the conversation, can you share a little bit about your role and your journey in payments? James, let's just start with you.
SPEAKER_02:Well, like a lot of people in payments, I didn't plan to end up here. I started my career in management consulting, working with a range of financial institutions from global banks to regional banks, credit unions, and insurance companies. So that gave me a strong foundation in payments and the broader financial services industry. And over time, I wanted to move from advising to building and getting closer to the impact being made. And that's what led me to Square. I began by leading bank partnerships and operations for bank-to-bank money movement like ACH, RTP, checks, account verification, open banking. That work touches several of Square's products like payments, banking, payroll, and lending, as well as the infrastructure that powers them. And today I oversee bank partnerships and operations across all of Block's brands, including Square, Cash App, and Afterpay, focusing on how we move money efficiently, securely, and at scale. It's been exciting to see how the payment space continues to evolve. What used to be back-end plumbing is now central to customer experience and product innovation. And being able to help shape that across a company like Block has been incredibly rewarding for me.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. James, thanks for sharing that. So, Anna, same question for you, a little bit about your role and your journey in payments.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sure. So I lead real-time payments product for North America at JP Morgan Chase. And my team and I focus on delivering instant payment solutions to all kinds of clients, right? From small businesses to large corporates. I've been in the payment space for a long time, like over a decade. So I guess you could call me a payments geek. But I started my career in uh lockbox payment operations, and then I moved on to mostly working in product development and strategy across other payment rails like ACH, wires, and now real-time payments. I I've always been excited about how technology could really simplify the way money moves, and obviously real-time payments in particular. It's really changing the game for businesses, right? Making it much easier to manage cash flow and respond quickly to opportunities. So for me, it's been a fascinating journey, and I really love seeing the impact these innovations have on our clients every day. And I'm really looking forward to our conversation today.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think we've got a couple of really great experts here today. So I'm really looking forward to it. James, let's start at the macro level. If you had to rank the top few challenges small businesses face right now, where does financial pressure fall and what's really driving that tension the most?
SPEAKER_02:That's a great question. Financial pressure is one of the biggest challenges that small businesses face today, alongside staffing and overall operational complexity. For many sellers, it's not just about driving more sales, it's about staying cash flow positive on a day-to-day basis. And costs have risen across the board, from labor and rent to inventory. And at the same time, consumer behavior is shifting. People are spending differently, and small businesses are having to adapt quickly, often across multiple sales channels. So that creates pressure, not just on margins, but the need to serve customers quickly while also making fast, informed decisions. So one thing that often gets overlooked is the need for real-time visibility. It's hard to run a business when you don't have a clear view on what's coming in, what's going out, and what's available to reinvest. So that's where better infrastructure can make a real difference. And at Square and Across Block, we focus on giving sellers faster access to funds, deeper insight into performance, and more control over cash flow. So ultimately, when small businesses have better visibility and faster access to their own money, they're in a stronger position to grow. That's the shift we're helping to accelerate.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. So, James, sticking with you, so why are instant or real-time payments so critical for this segment? What's the what's the specific problem that's being solved when a small business can access funds immediately?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for small businesses, timing is everything. Like access to funds isn't just a nice to have. It's often the difference between making payroll, ordering inventory, or covering an unexpected expense. So when you're operating with tight margins and short time frames, waiting even a day or two for funds to settle can create real friction. So instant payments solve a very practical problem. They unlock liquidity. The moment a sale happens, that money can go right back into the business to pay suppliers, issue refunds, or reinvest into the business. It removes uncertainty and gives sellers more control day-to-day. From where I said working across bank partnerships and payment infrastructure, we see how critical this is to the broader ecosystem. That's where speed meets resilience. The closer we bring settlement to real time, the more flexibility we give sellers to manage cash flow and make decisions with confidence. It's not about speed for the sake of speed, it's about creating stability in a dynamic environment.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Anna, over to you. So from JPMorgan Payments standpoint, how are you enabling instant payments for small business clients, both directly and through fintech partners such as Square?
SPEAKER_01:So at JP Morgan Chase, we're committed to making instant payments accessible and seamless for all small businesses. We enable instant payments for small business clients in two ways, right? So first through direct enablement. So small businesses can connect directly via our APIs and payment platforms like VR Easy Online Banking Portal, you know, host-to-host integration. This allows them to embed real-time payments into their day-to-day ops, whether it's to pay suppliers, you know, manage their inventory, like James said, run their payroll, or receiving customer payments. Second, we enable real-time payments for small businesses through fintech partnerships to extend our instant payment capabilities. So by powering the payment infrastructure behind these platforms, we help merchants get their money faster, making sure their money is available whenever they need it to support their business needs and to help them thrive in this new era of instant payments.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. James, back over to you. Square offers a range of products that touch small businesses, cash flow. You mentioned them, square checking, instant transfers. So which of these already leverage real-time payments today? And which could realistically adopt, say, the RTP network in the future? And what do you see as those opportunities and hurdles in expanding this use of real-time payments?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, instant access to funds is something our sellers have come to expect. And we've already enabled that across several products. So with our instant transfers product by leveraging RTP, sellers can get paid instantly to a linked bank account any time of day. It's one of our most widely used features because it helps real operational needs, like I mentioned earlier, paying staff, managing supplies, covering short-term expenses. With our Square checking products, sales can be available immediately to spend on the Square debit card with no need to move money externally. And that kind of immediacy helps smooth out the natural ups and downs of running a business. And as RTP grows, we see opportunities across block to extend real-time capabilities even more broadly across our ecosystem. But looking ahead, RTP has a strong potential to go even further. And to get there, we need broader network coverage. So RTP becomes a standard and visible option across more financial institutions. So even when RTP is technically available, it isn't always surface clearly. So it needs to be more intuitive and easier to use. And we're especially excited about new capabilities like requests for payment, which makes it possible to request and settle payments in real time. Another important piece is education. Many sellers and consumers still don't know that real-time capabilities exist or how they work. So awareness paired with trust will drive adoption. And lastly, one thing to mention is around the infrastructure standpoint. The challenge is scaling these capabilities reliably and securely at volume. But the opportunity is clear. Faster and more transparent money movement can fundamentally improve how small businesses operate every day. And we're excited for that.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, and a question for you. Consumers now expect everything instantly from streaming to shipping. I mean, we've all got accustomed to that, whether that's the Netflix of the world or next day, sometimes same-day shipping with Amazon. So are small businesses starting to expect that same speed when it comes to money movement?
SPEAKER_01:100%. We're seeing that the expectation for instant experiences really has crossed over into the financial services. Small businesses want the same speed and convenience for their payments as they get in their other parts of lives. Like you just said, Greg, you know, you get your Amazon packages right away, they demand the same. Whether it's, you know, getting paid by customers, paying suppliers, or running their payroll. The demand for real-time money movement is really real. It's just, you know, it's not a nice-to-have anymore. It's becoming the standard. As consumers expect digital payments to be real time all over the world, businesses are really seeing instant payments as an essential to stay competitive. It's really all about keeping up with the customer expectations and making sure their businesses can move as fast as the market does.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Anna, sticking with you. So without getting too in the weeds or too technical, what actually happens behind the scenes to make instant payments work? So how do the bank, the network, and the fintechs, how do they all come together sort of behind the scenes?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, great question, Greg. I'll I'll try to keep it real simple because there is a lot happening behind the scenes to make instant payments work, right? But our goal is to make it feel effortless for our clients. So, first of all, our RTP platform is built to meet clients wherever they are. We give businesses the flexibility to choose the channel that fits them the best, whether it's a direct API connectivity, our banking portal, host-to-host, or via a fintech connection, right? It's all about making payments faster and easier no matter what setup. So behind the scenes, once the payment is initiated, we run through all the important checks. We authenticate the payment details. We confirm that the payment is properly formatted. We do the eligibility checks, we perform the maker-checker validation, we monitor for fraud, we run all the compliance checks, we make sure there's enough funds. I mean, you name it. We perform all the qualifications. And once they check out, we send the payment securely to the network, either the clearinghouse or FedNow. And as soon as the network clears and settles that payment, the receiving bank credits the funds, and both the sender and the receiver get an instant confirmation. So you know whether that payment processed or rejected right away. And all of this that I mentioned happens in less than 30 seconds. At JP Morgan, particularly, we see an average round trip for an RTP transaction of about nine seconds. So while it feels like really simple and instant to our clients, there's a lot of security and technology working in the background to make it all happen this fast.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Yeah, I was talking to someone the other day. Actually, it was a charity golf tournament, and obviously he knew nothing about payments and explaining to him all of the things that happen instantaneously. I mean, just on a you know, a credit or debit card transaction, let alone something like an instant payment, just the amount of things that happen, I think it's just fascinating that that much can happen that quickly to make a payment or settle a payment is just it's fascinating to me. So thank you for sharing that. James, you mentioned this earlier, but want to double-click on it a little bit. Do small businesses really understand that these instant capabilities even exist? Or is there still an awareness gap? And if so, which I think there is, how do you educate your customers about these faster payment options?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, awareness is growing, but I think there's still room for growth between what's technically possible and what small businesses actually know is possible. Sellers are focused on serving their customers, keeping things running. So even when instant capabilities exist, they may not realize they're available or understand the impact on cash flow. So that's why design and education are so important. So marketing and campaigns, you know, they play an important role. But what really accelerates understanding is surfacing these instant capabilities in context. So when a seller is looking at their payout balance and they see instant transfer funds instantly exist, especially during a tight cash flow moment, that's when it really resonates. So context creates understanding in a way standalone education often can't. So that's what I've noticed and what's worked well with our sellers. Trust is also essential. Instant payments only work if the experience is consistent and reliable. Once sellers feel that reliability, awareness grows naturally, and faster access to funds become part of how they operate business as usual.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, Anna, back over to you. And we've been talking about speed, a lot of this about instant, right? Just the speed that these things happen, which is great. But how do you ensure that this faster doesn't mean riskier? You know, what are the safeguards or processes that you guys have in place to maintain this trust and security?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sure. I mean, I work for a legacy institution, right? So JP Morgan Payments stands for trust, reliability, and decades of proven experience. So security is really at the heart of everything we do. With real-time payments, we've built robust controls into every step of the process. So real-time payment, fraud monitoring, transaction validation, secure authentication, right? But of course, we we also work closely with our partners to ensure their system meets our standards. Because the goal is to deliver speed, obviously, without compromising safety, so that our clients can trust that their funds are protected. So to safeguard our stakeholders, we offered advanced fraud detection systems and we have dedicated support teams that work relentless to safeguard our clients from potential threats. But overall, we believe in true partnership. So we offer ongoing education and guidance on secure payment practices to empower our clients, ensuring safety and peace of mind.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, James, any thoughts on this topic from your perspective?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, speed and safety is exactly the balance we work to maintain. You know, moving money faster is valuable, but only if it's done responsibly. And at Square and across block, we take a layered approach to risk. And that's so that speed doesn't come at the cost of security. We process risk signals in real time and continuously. So that's through identity checks and monitoring transaction behavior and building intelligent controls into our systems. We also operate with a deep understanding of the financial ecosystem because we partner closely with banks, networks, and regulators. We're able to design payment flows that are both fast and safe. And when we bring instant capabilities to sellers, it's always with guardrails in place, like transaction limits, hold logic, step up authentication, depending on the context. Trust is foundational to everything we do. For us, it's never just about how fast money moves, but about making sure it gets to the right place securely and predictably.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, well, let's wrap up with a couple of questions about the future. So, Anna, if we fast forward, say three years, what will the typical small business payments experience look like? How close are we to a world where every payment, inbound and outbound, happens in real time?
SPEAKER_01:Fantastic question, right? So if I look into my crystal ball, I think the next three years are gonna be really exciting for small businesses and for payments, right? I really think that every bank in the US will have real-time payments enabled. So sending and receiving instant payments is going to be possible for everyone. And we're already very close. I mean, we're not there yet, but you know, today we could reach about 80% of DDAs in the US. So in three years, I really expect that we'll have like true ubiquity. And that means like a fully connected real-time payments ecosystem for both payouts and collections. I think for small businesses, real-time payments is going to be the norm, right? We're already seeing a rapid adoption. So soon businesses will have like complete visibility into their cash flow with every single payment, whether incoming or outgoing, settling like instantly. And looking a bit further ahead, I'm hopeful that we'll see real-time payments go cross-border, right? Which I think is going to be a real game changer for businesses of all sizes. So, yeah, in short, I really think we're on the verge of a world where instant payments are just business as usual, right? Making life just a lot easier for small businesses everywhere. I'm manifesting that, Greg.
SPEAKER_03:No, I I love it. As a small business, I would love for the ability to get paid faster, that's for sure. But, you know, I get it. I get it. So thanks for that, Anna. So, James, over to you. What's next for Square in the real-time space? Do you envision broader RTP adoption? What about cross-border instant payments that Anna brought up? It's another thing we haven't really talked about, or deeper integration into the financial ecosystems.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, real-time payments are already changing how small businesses manage their cash flow. And we're continuing to invest in infrastructure that brings those capabilities even closer to the moment a sale happens. NetSquare, like I mentioned earlier, we've embedded real time access into our products like instant transfers and square checking. So sellers can access their funds quickly and reliably. And we're extending that speed and flexibility across the tools sellers use every day. For example, with our instant payouts feature, food and beverage sellers use. Square checking can get immediate access to payments from fulfilled delivery orders on platforms like DoorDash and Uber Eats. Instead of waiting the usual one to two days for those platform payouts, even when those transactions happen outside of Square, we can bring that money to them instantly. Request for payment is another great example of the next wave of real-time capabilities. It gives businesses a way to initiate and receive payments instantly with more structure and transparency. And as more financial institutions adopt real-time payments and make it easier to access, we'll see even greater opportunity and value across the ecosystem. And the goal for us is not just about faster money movement, but smarter and more predictable money movement for everyone involved.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Well, Anna, James, this has been a great discussion. Anna, any final thoughts before we wrap up the show?
SPEAKER_01:No, this has been amazing. I am really fortunate. Thank you for having us. James has been a pleasure. I look forward to continuing our partnership to make real-time payments available everywhere.
SPEAKER_03:James, any final thoughts?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I just want to wrap up with what we talked about. Like what excites me most is the real-time payments are moving from concept to reality, is from my view. And the ability for small businesses to access funds instantly, make timely payments, and gain real-time visibility into cash flow is transformative. NetSquare and across block more broadly. And we're focused on making that experience safe, seamless, and accessible. So the direction is clear. Real-time infrastructure is going to play a central role in the future of payments. And I'm excited to help shape that journey working alongside our partners, our sellers, our customers, and the broader industry.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Well, thank you both so much for being here on the show today. I know your time is very valuable, so I really appreciate you being here.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for having us.
SPEAKER_03:And to all your listeners out there, I thank you for your time as well. And until the next story.