[9] Commitment Starts With Me - Tony Gatewood

Tony Gatewood serves as one of InterVarsity's leading Scripture Engagement Resource Specialists, so when the pandemic hit America he was quick to take action and start something new online. Little did he know, God had different plans for Tony and the direction of his ministry. Listen as Tony shares with Steve on how God using his commitment to more than leading Scripture studies online, and how simple questions from his daughter hit him to his core during this time.

LINKS

Tony's comments on revival are informed by his recent reading of "Longing for Revival" by James Choung and Ryan Pfeiffer. Here's a link to check it out: https://amzn.to/3b2VXMO.

Tony also mentioned the book "The Hum" by Evans E. Crawford, a resource that helped shaped the creation of "inductive proclamation." You can pick up a copy here: https://amzn.to/2V199MB

Tony also leads an open Bible Study for InterVarsity's Black Campus Ministries. If you're interested, check it out. Send an email to shaylen.hardy@intervarsity.org for details.

Transcript

Steve Tamayo:   0:02
Over the last several weeks, I've been juggling this tension as a minister and as a dad. This tension that comes from this moment of having my kids at home and having this intense season of ministry, and I've been trying to navigate it, and I found someone who I think is navigating it with a lot of authenticity and a lot of insight. I think it'd be helpful for all of us to get to hear from him. Now, I'm just gonna let you know this episode's gonna be a little bit longer than our episodes normally are. So in return I'm gonna give you a break. We're only gonna do two episodes this week. Just count this as a double episode. A double blessing with our special guest. You're listening to Ministry During the Disruption.  

Steve Tamayo:   1:00
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the podcast. My name is Steve Tamayo and joining me in our virtual studio today is InterVarsity's National Scripture Engagement Specialist. He's been on staff with InterVarsity for 15 years, was involved before that, lives in Eastern Iowa, although he's originally from the south side of Chicago. He's married, has two kids, has a 16 year old cat and a 12 year old dog. I didn't actually ask him how old his kids were. That says something maybe about my character and personality. Welcome to the podcast, Tony Gatewood.  

Tony Gatewood:   1:36
Good to be here. Good to be here, but I probably should have clarified that they are, uh, what is that, four and nine right now, but it's good to be here

Steve Tamayo:   1:46
Four and  nine. So what is it like to be in eastern Iowa with a four year old, a nine year old, a 12 year old dog, a 16 year old cat, a wife in your house? What's that like?

Tony Gatewood:   1:58
Not quiet. I have four feelers in the home and one non feeler type of person. I happened to unfortunately be the non feeler type.

Steve Tamayo:   2:09
Oh I would have assumed it's the cat.

Tony Gatewood:   2:11
You would thinks so. No, the cat is, the cat is a, snuggles, it's just a snugly cat. The dog is snuggly, my kids and them like feelings my wife is, and then I'm the one that's like, "Oh, great. Everybody wants to hug me." I have feelings about that, you know? So it's good, we, you know, you learn how to work in your own little biosphere. But we all find out our space and place. And, uh, you know, we're holding, we're holding down alright, Steve.

Steve Tamayo:   2:42
Well, let me ask you this. So you talk about finding your own space and place. And I heard a story about you finding a space and place for ministry that I think is pretty unique. I would love for people to hear about. What did you do when you heard campuses were closing down?  

Tony Gatewood:   3:00
It was crazy just to even talk about it, because, right, I work nationally with InterVarsity so I don't have a direct campus. But when I heard the campuses were closing initially, I was a little nervous because one I happen to be immuno compromised. So I have diabetes. I've had previous existing conditions. So I think my response was like, what can I do even though I know physically, I'm limited. I usually serve. I've served at Salvation Army to serve food before. Can't do that. Um, I I serve with this group called Kiwanis that works with youth and kids. Can't be around there. And I sat there and I was trying to figure out what can I do that can at least start a fire of hope, right? And the thing that really hit me was think about revival happening. There's a moment where the people of God becomes desperate. And I felt like I was like, this is that moment.  

Steve Tamayo:   3:57
You felt that desperation.  

Tony Gatewood:   3:58
I felt desperate. And so it was instantaneous. It clicked for me that was like, what if I did something that countered that desperation that said, "Okay, God, if we're on the cusp of revival, maybe I can just start fanning flames and stuff." And so if I tend to be the person we're like if a war is happening, I love being vanguard.  

Steve Tamayo:   4:22
You like to run, run into the fire, run into the chaos, but so so you have this impulse to run into it.  

Tony Gatewood:   0:00
Hmmhmm.

Steve Tamayo:   4:31
But this particular crisis, because of your immune system, you can't. You can't go to the hospital.  

Tony Gatewood:   4:40
Exactly.

Steve Tamayo:   4:40
You can't go to the Salvation Army as you said, Kiwanis as you said. So what was it that you did?  

Tony Gatewood:   4:44
I just sat there. I was just like, I felt like God has called me to teach, preach, coach and train the Word. And it's not, and it's clicked to me, like the meet the media platforms we have still allows for the Word to go forward. That, like, I don't have to be present for a person to be affected by God's Word. I just need that to go. And I think that can reach for further. And so I just wanted to, that first week, how can I just start the whole like, "Yeah, we can still do this. You know what? Yeah, like God can still move." And so I remember. I remember. Yeah, I just remembered that there were some things that motivated me. I just wanted to see something happen, and I want to, I need the work to go forward.

Steve Tamayo:   5:29
We're part of a long history of people using technology to move the Word forward. And in fact, I think I don't know what you think of this, Tony you're the National Scripture Engagement Specialists, so maybe you could correct me if my story is wrong. But the Apostle Paul is sitting there, and he's like, I really want to preach a message to these people who live in Rome. I really want to preach them this long message, really complex, nuanced things. I really wanna preach in this message, but I'm not in Rome right now. And so he uses the technology available at the time and writes Romans. And then it travels to Rome on the Roman Road, more technology. And it circulates around as people are kind of writing it or putting it through printing presses, you know, hundreds of years later and flies across the world. And so, we have a tradition of leaning into technology, so it makes perfect sense that there be an opportunity for the Word to go out through technology. So, Tony, what was it that you did with that technology?  

Tony Gatewood:   6:32
I wanted to get the word out on account of some social media platforms that I was leading the Bible study. The first Scripture that kind of came to my heart for me, and I know others then adopted this too, was the seven signs of John's gospel. Because I was just like, all I'm seeing is hope and despair. God what sign can you give us of the reality that you are coming, right? That you're going to reveal your glory of revival. Seven signs of John stood out a lot to me. So I wanted to start promoting. I actually started with a question. I was like anybody I was like, I can get, I just it  put online. "If you are concerned or nervous and you're just looking for a little hope, would anybody be interested in gathering together around the Word?" And, you know, people give you some likes and hearts and thumbs up and stuff, and then at that point, you have to make a choice. Are you gonna follow through with this? Are you gonna try to do something? And so I remember praying and just saying to myself, 'What can I do to kind of light the fire?' And so I just was like, 'Okay.' There's a list that was going around among staff of like, who's doing online Bible studies. And I just picked the time. And I just said Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Uh, soo...

Steve Tamayo:   7:40
Wait, wait, wait, wait. So you were gonna do five days a week?

Tony Gatewood:   7:47
I started, at least with my initial flay was like with...

Steve Tamayo:   7:49
What, you just tell me what the plan was, the plan, the plan never stays the same, right? The plan always changes. Okay, so the initial plan was 'I'm going to do this five days a week. It's been by myself available.' Boom.  

Tony Gatewood:   8:02
I'm ready.  

Steve Tamayo:   8:03
You did that. And you did that before you'd had anyone sign up. You'd had some likes and hearts, but that's not the same is like, "Hey, Pastor Tony, I'm gonna be there, like, open the door," right? Like... 

Tony Gatewood:   8:14
Commitment starts with me. I have to ask myself, 'What am I willing to do?"

Steve Tamayo:   8:18
Commitment starts with me.

Tony Gatewood:   8:20
Oh, yeah, It had to. It had to start with me and even going forward, the lessons learned I had is that, like, consistency, like, keeps commitment going for others too. So, like, commitment starts with me, one. Consistency to the commitment in, like, I think my wife said this, encourages others to know that it will be there. And so that was some of my initial lessons learned. Like I said, I'm the vanguard. I jump over the wall. I can get hit with arrows. And then I go, "Oh, man, I got a couple of arrows in my body. Maybe I should calculate a little bit more. My plan and stuff like that." But the vanguard is important because the vanguard is usually the tip of the like a flying V of birds. The front bird takes a lot of the weight of the wind resistance, but it's actually helpful that you have that front bird because it gives everybody else rest, gives everybody a easier path to get through. So I get that, like...

Steve Tamayo:   9:13
So show me. So show me, show me what it looks like. So the front bird that goes out ,that the first soldier jumps over the wall, like, what was that first Bible study like, that first small group like. Did anyone show up?  

Tony Gatewood:   9:27
You know, I had 16 people.

Steve Tamayo:   9:30
16 people showed up!

Tony Gatewood:   9:31
16 people showed up. I just said, hey, you know, And what was crazy about it was that I had some donors show up on it. I had some donors show up. I had some students. We had people as far as Toronto like there. There's people in Canada. There's people all around the country who just showed up and nobody knew each other. It wasn't like this whole, like my friends.

Steve Tamayo:   9:53
You were the common link. You were the common link.

Tony Gatewood:   9:56
I was literally the common link amongst everybody and, well, what's hilarious is that the Bible study went well. And one of the comments that people had, they were just like, "How are we? How do I feel like I'm in community when I don't know anybody on this call?" And I thought that was, I was like because of the Word. I was like, because the Word is what unites us and when we all kind of like, make our hearts sensitive to what God has to say, it's surprising that an online Zoom call can become an oikos can become a household.

Steve Tamayo:   10:28
So they felt that. They felt that in that, that first call, that Monday night they felt  

Tony Gatewood:   10:34
They felt.

Steve Tamayo:   10:35
Wow.

Tony Gatewood:   0:00
They felt that.

Steve Tamayo:   0:00
And you studied, you study John 2, the Jesus turned water into wine?

Steve Tamayo:   0:00
In turn,  Jesus turned water into wine. And then we did the, uh, the official, the royal official, and I forget I get, like, three Bible study guide things on my players. I...

Steve Tamayo:   10:52
You did three? You did three signs in one meeting?

Tony Gatewood:   10:56
I did three signs in one week, in three straight days.

Steve Tamayo:   10:59
Oh yeah. That was your Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,

Tony Gatewood:   11:01
Yeah, I did Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And so, like I have a couple. It was, what was interesting for me is that, like also the breadth of the different people. So you have some people who are like serious study-ers of Scripture and they really get InterVarsity's methodology. And then you have some people who are like I'm wrestling with my faith. I'm kind of trying to be open to what God may have to say. I'm not that studious and have a lot of my own kind of innovation of our own scriptures. How do you bring everybody around the table?

Steve Tamayo:   11:35
Well, and I want to see if this word, if this phrase that I've heard. I think this is your phrase Biblical Proclamation. Is that yours?

Tony Gatewood:   11:42
Yeah, I would call it, I call it Inductive Proclamation or Scripture Proclamation.

Steve Tamayo:   11:47
Inductive Proclamation.

Tony Gatewood:   11:47
Yeah. Inductive Proclamation.

Steve Tamayo:   11:48
Inductive Proclamation. That's what it is. I'm I'm sorry I didn't have a right, Tony.

Tony Gatewood:   11:51
No, it's fine. That started like, it's hilarious Steve. I thought this whole idea of Inductive Proclamation, it was a pet project. It was just something where, like I when I first came on to staff, was around 2005. I got sent as an intern to the Southeast Region was working a historically black colleges and universities. And...

Steve Tamayo:   12:13
I didn't know that. Were you were you, in ah, at the AUC? Where were you at?

Tony Gatewood:   12:16
I was. That was my space, man, that was my space. Morehouse. Clark Atlanta. Spellman. I went around with Miss Felicia Anderson who's husband, Alex Anderson, was our former BCM Director. She took me to, ah, I visited Tuskegee, Fort Valley State University. I was doing HBC work my 1st four years in inner city in Atlanta, Georgia, and I brought I had a lot of basic, like classic. I call a classic manuscript training and I get observe, interpret, apply. I've done those different things before. When I came to these historically black colleges and universities, I realized that the method was good, but there was something that was a little off in terms of their ability to adapt to it. It required, ah, more contextualization than I think they felt comfortable, but I was sitting, and I'll try to be really quick. I was sitting in his church service and I saw this pastor leading a Wednesday night Bible study service. Um, and he landed in a inductive way, but with a black preaching experience.  

Steve Tamayo:   13:25
Exactly. Yes.  

Tony Gatewood:   13:27
And I sat there and I was like, Yes, this something's here. And so I bought this book. I have this book called, um, it's called The Hum, and it talks about Participate Proclamation. That's the phrase that the book used to talk about the experience of engaging with Scripture. And it made me come up with this theory that, like I that I built Inductive Proclamation on, which is people study the Word, people study scripture the way that they have seen Scripture exposited or preached. When I realized that I was, I was wondering, How can I bring some of the adaptations of this charismatic proclamational tradition that overlaps with other cultures with the gifts of what I think is found in, like the intent, thoughtful, working through the Word, which is what I think of when I say inductive. How do you think about the context? How do you ask relevant questions? Have you applied specifically to your life? How can I do that without checking my culture at the door?

Steve Tamayo:   14:28
And I think there's this thing that's happening online, where people are finding that open discussion, uh, doesn't  work the same way online as it does in person. And that actually a little bit more proclamation, a little bit more guidance in some ways, with a lot of gentleness and tenderness, a little bit more authority is really helpful. And that might actually be a gift from BCM, from the black church, to online ministry and online move. So I don't know. Was that a part of your experience on this Monday? Tuesday? Wednesday?

Tony Gatewood:   15:02
Yeah, I think one, because people are hurting and there is a direct, like pain, isolation, you don't find that many apathetic people engaging in a Bible study in this season.

Steve Tamayo:   15:15
There's no reason for them to show up if they're apathetic.

Tony Gatewood:   15:17
They don't, they won't log on if they're too apathetic, right. So it's actually we are finding, I'm finding how captured of an audience, no pun intended, of course. But like how much of the audiences, folks, they come in looking for something. I logged on. And I came to this Bible study because I'm looking for something. Well, it's interesting from this that first week is that, like two of the people, maybe two or three of the people, who in a part of that first week of Bible study wind up leading Bible studies on their own.  

Steve Tamayo:   15:49
Oh, wow.  

Tony Gatewood:   15:50
Yeah, they went and they were just like I want to lead seven signs with my friends because they're like I experienced hope. I think they need this too. I was, I wasn't expecting that wasn't something that I wasn't, I wasn't doing it for that reason.

Steve Tamayo:   16:05
Well, and I think it speaks a little bit, to this fear that we sometimes have with a proclamation style, is that we're like, "You know, if I do a proclamation style of leadership, if I'm a little more assertive in my leadership, people gonna think this is Tony's study and only someone with Tony's level of wisdom, insight, experience can lead a study, and I need to get people to Tony's study." But actually, what you're saying is that God could use this to create space for other people to take their own initiative and do it.

Tony Gatewood:   16:39
And I would even throw into the fact that, like the established study, isn't just only me preaching. What I would have done is that, like what people what people like. So take a individual study when you're talking to people individually in the setting of a Bible study. In a classic style, you give people time to be silent, to engage with the text by themselves. And then there's a process of engagement where people are looking and they give observations looking at the ah, the person who's leading the study, right? It's a very western academic style that we usually do things in. When you're online, you're not just looking directly at one person, the leader of the study. You're looking at the whole group altogether. So in some ways you are in a collaborative environment, whether you like it or not.

Steve Tamayo:   17:27
And this is actually creating a space for the sort of study which maybe you would want to have in person?  

Tony Gatewood:   17:34
Exactly.  

Steve Tamayo:   17:35
Always really hard to have in person. And you're kind of leaning into this online environment in a special way.  

Tony Gatewood:   17:42
It's great.

Steve Tamayo:   17:44
Yeah, I want to ask you a question about something else that I heard. So another part of the story, which I think is, I think people really need to hear. So you lead Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. You could have, you jumped in, jumped over the wall and said, I'm gonna do this five days a week. I don't know if you said I'm gonna do this five days a week until campuses are open again. Or I don't know if you gave yourself a timeline.

Tony Gatewood:   18:04
Oh yeah. That sounds like me. People who listen to this and know me, like that's Tony. That's what Tony did.

Steve Tamayo:   18:10
So that was the plan. But then what actually happened?

Tony Gatewood:   18:14
Life. It's interesting that, like my family needed me as well. And you know, my wife specifically, we both are working remotely, and I put a lot of weight on her when I made that commitment as well. And here's a look at vanguard people, when you get hit with arrows and you don't always use kind of like, uh, good methodology. You don't mind breaking down the wall, but sometimes you don't do that so well. And I don't think I did that well initially. And I realized that my wife had a lot of pressure of taking care of the kids and putting them to bed, feeding them a dinner and stuff. And I had a choice to make for myself. I'm like, you know, I'm glad I'm serving God, quote unquote right. I'm getting to serve God, but like, "What can, how can I orient myself not only to the call that God has on my life. But how do I orient myself to others?" Because I think the fault of mine, and I don't even mind saying it, the sin of mine and this process is that, like I orient myself around my ministry. But like that was selfish as well, too, because it made me feel like I had something to give. And as I oriented myself, stop doing that a little bit and said, like hold on for a second, let me start. Revival starts with me, right? All those things start with me. How do I make sure that my family is flourishing and allow the flourishing of my family to empower the work that I want to do and and kind of continuing this work online? And I realized that going going five, going five days a week wasn't gonna do it, and I needed to become available for my kids and for my wife.  

Steve Tamayo:   20:03
So, Tony, I think that's really important for people to hear, because I think there's some of us. And if you're listening to this and you're a student, or you're faculty person, or you're a InterVarsity staff, you may have this same wiring that Tony and I have where you're like, "Let's charge forward!". And there may be people to your left and to your right, people on your team, people in your family who needs you and and you need to feel the freedom to say, "You know what? I can be here for my wife. I can be here for my kids. I can be here for my parents. I can be, you know, it could be here for my boyfriend or from my girlfriend. Or for this person who needs me in my neighborhood or in my apartment building." And that that, too, is ministry. I mean, does it feel a little bit like ministry when you're like, you know, giving the two year old a bath, or like feeding the dog? And, you know, like sitting and talking to your wife? Does it feel, it is different, but does it feel a little bit like ministry?  

Tony Gatewood:   20:59
Well, it is ministry, and yes, um, I think sometimes we work too much in our own power. I have zeal. Yeah, have zeal. But zeal does not equal sustainability. In some ways, what in me serving and loving my family, I'm giving them the opportunity to  pour back into me as well. My daughter has the best timing in asking the question, "How are you doing Dad?". I don't even ask myself that question when I'm pushing in ministry, like to stop and cease and say, 'How am I doing?' Like in my daughter, she's very open to God, and she's like, you know, she wants to know what your soul is feeling like. When I'm connecting with my community. When I'm connecting with the things that give me the cycle of rest and relaxation, retreat, it allows me to advance further. So the way you build a muscle isn't just by straining yourself to continue to lift. What you have to do is, you do the exercise of of straining yourself in working and building and breaking down a muscle. But the muscle doesn't build until it has the ability to recover. My fault and my own, in my own leading is, and sometimes is, that I have to allow recovery to happen in order to be stronger for the next push and to be smarter as well for the next stage.

Steve Tamayo:   22:27
So you have, you have this huge launch, successful ministry start. You see multiple people start their own groups and then you step away for a day. A couple days. I don't, I don't remember how long it was I saw about it on Facebook.

Tony Gatewood:   22:46
Hmmhm Hmmhm.

Steve Tamayo:   22:46
What happened now? Are you still leading a Bible study? Like you still have something in the works? Or was it ah, like three day thing the Lord wanted you to do and it turned out that's all he needed from you? Or or is he continuing to invite you to do something at a more sustainable pace?

Tony Gatewood:   23:04
Yes, I would, I would, I would say that God transformed that zeal into a sustainable ministry , uh, experience. I think God was like, "I don't need you to fill up  every, every night." And then also, "I don't need you leading in every situation in order to help ministry move forward." Beau Crosetto who's doing a fantastic seven signs of John Bible study.

Steve Tamayo:   23:28
Out of Louisiana. www.plantlouisiana.com

Tony Gatewood:   23:31
He's been having. Exactly. Right. Geaux Tigers. That's for you, uh, that's for you Beau. But, um, he's been doing a large Bible study and I came in to kind of help. And so, like, I'm just a breakout group person, was a breakout group person that kind of help him talk about the Bible study in the midst of that. Um, every every Wednesday night, I'll be leading the National Black Campus Ministries Bible study for any student, um, black student around the country and we'll be, uh, we'll be going through kind of the three discourses in Matthew's gospel. Um, and so then, for those people, like, I feel like God has given me the energy and opportunity. He just wants me to put those in a better space and place. And so I'm opening up Wednesdays at noon. If anybody just wanna have spiritual conversation for people who don't follow God. And then Fridays probably doing an open Bible study, you know, if I'm giving it. Basically it's like in my tithing about an hour or two of my day for the most part, um, leading people in scripture, that's probably my average. And so, like I'm daily in the Word. I'm giving space for my family. I'm given space for uh. I'm the one who cooks dinner for the most part at home, so I'm, uh, my kids said to me I made them some food. They said it was a blessing. They're like...

Steve Tamayo:   24:54
Wow, wow.

Tony Gatewood:   24:55
They said, "Dad, This is really good. You're really gifted at this." So it must be a ministry, right?

Steve Tamayo:   24:59
Yeah, yeah.

Tony Gatewood:   25:02
If I get the bring talents and gifts and passions in order to help my family take the next step. And I feel their energy then propelling me to be able to do the work that I do in a more sustainable way. There's a sense of humility that, like even now, God can make his Word move forward and he could even use us in that process, it's just our privilege to be a part of it.

Steve Tamayo:   25:24
He can use you as you lead a online Bible study. He can use you as you're hanging out with your kids, cooking dinner for them. He'll find a way to include you in the good stuff that he's doing because he loves you.

Tony Gatewood:   25:35
Amen.

Steve Tamayo:   25:35
And it's something I think, I think we need to remember in this time. Well, Tony, we're kind of have a little tradition we're forming on the Ministry During the Disruption podcast, where we pray for our guest. What's one way I could pray for you and your family?

Tony Gatewood:   25:49
Uh, pray for my right wrist the heal. I had some tendinitis. I think it just kind of kicked in with the age, I don't know. Uh, clicking the mouse maybe a little too much. Maybe this is my jumping over the wall too fast.

Steve Tamayo:   26:03
Yeah. Yeah. Or the Lord giving you an invitation to slow down.

Tony Gatewood:   26:08
Hey, there you go.  

Steve Tamayo:   26:09
Yeah..

Tony Gatewood:   26:09
I'll take that. I'll take that.

Steve Tamayo:   26:10
But listen, let's let's pray. Let's pray and ask the Lord to bring healing.  

Tony Gatewood:   26:16
Thanks Steve.  

Steve Tamayo:   26:17
Lord Jesus, Thanks for the good work that you're doing through Tony, through his Spiritual Foundations team, through Black Campus Ministries, through his church, that you're doing all around the country, all around the world. And thanks for the great work that you're doing in Tony's home with his wife, with his kids, with his cat, with his dog. God, we ask that you would bless his family and that you would heal his wrist. Would you take the pain away? Would you help him to feel flexibility? Would you give him the freedom, ah, to be with his kids, to do the work that you've called him to do, to cook to do it without pain? We pray this in your name. Jesus. Amen.

Tony Gatewood:   26:57
Amen. Amen

Steve Tamayo:   26:59
Amen. Thanks, Tony.

Tony Gatewood:   27:00
This been a pleasure. Thank you so much for inviting me.