Ambition Doesn't Live In An Office

Someone can do everything “right” at work and still get blindsided by an office bully, a microaggressive comment, or a private Teams thread that was never meant to reach you. We’re not pretending that’s fair. We’re talking about what to do next, how to stay strategic, and how to protect your credibility without spending your whole life sat in HR.

We start with the reality of workplace bullying and the systems that quietly enable it, then move into practical career strategy: building a feedback folder, collecting performance evidence, and using it to plan a smart internal move. I share why internal mobility matters right now, how to create allies beyond your line manager, and how to position your impact so the approval becomes hard to refuse.

Then we get candid about “brand protection” in real time. When unprofessional comments land in your lap, you need a response that sets the tone fast and keeps you in control. We also go deeper on identity at work, why copying isn’t always flattery, and what it means to bet on yourself when the room isn’t built for you.

From there, we challenge Emma Grede’s claim that working from home is killing women’s careers, with a clear look at visibility, privilege, childcare realities, and remote networking. We also connect the dots to bigger power dynamics, from government vetting controversies to Vogue rebranding an Afro puff as a “cloud bob”, and why naming, credit, and process matter.

If you care about workplace politics, internal promotion, remote work, personal brand, and navigating microaggressions with strategy, press play. Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review, then tell us: what part hit closest to home?

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Music (Intro and Outro) Written and created by Nomadic Star

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Transcript

Welcome And What’s Coming Up

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Between Emma Greed's controversial comments and statements as she pushes and markets her new book, Trump being Trump, and of course, the announcement that Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, will be stepping down on the 1st of September. There's been so much that has been happening. And of course, I'm going to be here to give you all a breakdown and give you some workplace tips, tricks, and strategy. Welcome to the Toy Talks podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Toy and Talks, Council of States, the corporate space, project Nigeria certain states from Goldman's acts to PWC. Building legacies for all to see. It's like just couldn't stop this low. Let me show you how to get an elevator what we do.

Office Bullies And Organisational Complicity

Feedback Folders And Performance Reviews

Planning A Strategic Internal Move

Handling Unprofessional Teams Messages

Protecting Your Identity And Brand

Emma Grede And Remote Work Myths

Power Bends Process In Politics

Vogue’s Cloud Bob And The Afro

Wrap Up And Listener Requests

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Hey everyone, this is gonna be a packed podcast episode. It really is. As I was scoping out the episodes, and there were just so many things to talk about, so many things that were happening, and I was like, you know what? I'm really happy that we're at a place on the podcast where you will know that I'm only gonna ever record and deliver quality things that you can use. And as I kind of watch people recycle a lot of my content that I have um shared on the podcast, I definitely think that when it comes to the workplace, one thing that is familiar is our experiences are the same. What I love about some workplace content that we see now is how they infuse finances into it because we're living in, yeah, cost of living crisis. Um, people are not getting paid what they should be. Um, but also as well, just that financial literacy, I think that is so important when having like workplace discussions. I think something that I um have always done on the podcast is I've always been open, I've always been honest. And recently I shared an episode about um a bully in the workplace and my my having to interact with him because that's just how it goes. We can't just decide we're gonna quit one day because we've identified a bully. Do you know what I mean? Or, you know, and this particular person, I think, I think workplaces always surprise me because they have all these policies, all these mandatory training. And as much as we look at these people and we're like, okay, how could he, how can he or she talk to treat people like this? We ignore that there is an ecosystem, an organization that un that know about these people. Like, I find it really hard to believe that someone just pops up and becomes an office bully. You have to be very comfortable to feel like you could mistreat people because you know that you either have the organization andor HR that are gonna protect you. When an organization knows that somebody is a problem and doesn't act to resolve it, and whether that is managing that person out, whether that's giving that person a final warning, whether it's empowering line managers, um, when an organization doesn't do it, then they perpetuate that bully. They support, as far as I'm concerned, a lack of action is complicit. And I definitely feel that way to an extent throughout my career, having worked with different varieties of people, but often um having to be at the end of mistreatment, as many of us often are, and knowing how to deal with it. This country is really good at microaggressions. Um, I would definitely say part of UK culture is to be um covert rather than overt, and then depending on the political landscape of what's happening, then you get the slip of the mask, and we move into more um overt um mistreatment. But that being said, this particular office, I call him an office bully, and he's made people cry. It's not like um it's an isolated incident or kind of like a misalignment of personalities. This person's just not, he's just not nice. And he uses a lot of bravado, and part of it, I believe, comes from insecurity because secure, happy people don't bully others. It's really that simple. I don't think that there needs to be psychological analysis. It's for me personally, I just see it as that simple. So, um, sorry, you might hear some noise. I've got carpool tunnel on my left hand, I had it on the right, it's now on my left hand, so I'm having to put this um, you know, this it's not even a bandage, I don't know what you call it, but yeah. Anyway, sorry, I digress. Um, so as we all do, you have reviews um of kind of like performance reviews at work. And part of the performance review, I don't know how it is with um a lot of organizations and a lot of people, so please share with me. We often ask for feedback, right? And if you've been following the Toy Talks podcast for a long time, you know that we already have burn folders, but we also have feedback folders, and feedback folders are anything from people complimenting you on your work down to actually strategic feedback that people are giving because you've delivered on a project, and you don't, and I I always say to people, just because someone compliments you doesn't mean you have to always forward it onto your manager. Um, for me, I keep it until I need it. Um, and when you get to performance reviews, I think that's when you need it. You see, one thing I've come to realize in organizations is you could be working somewhere and somebody would be like, Oh, you're amazing, and then it comes to a performance review and it's not included in your performance review as a default. Um, or um, line managers don't necessarily go seeking that review for you to add to your performance review. That's why I say you're the architect of your career. So um I could very well bypass this bully, by the way. I don't actually need a review from him, but you know what I thought was interesting because of his character and the way he behaves and my interactions with him and my professionalism, and actually, I don't talk, I do. I'm very much solution output driven. I asked for a review. The review that he gave me flawed me, it was amazing. But I want to take it as a step back or go a little deeper. I really believe that uh reviews, especially when it comes from people you've worked with, need to be strategic because when they're trying a thing in the workplace, you need to be able to tap in, tap in to use these things. And whilst I'm using the review or the feedback in my performance review, what's really important to me is also collating all this for my next move. And I'm plotting and planning, as you should be in your career, in an internal move, and it's something that I'm gonna be working on, and I'm gonna share how I'm working on it. It's more than just feedback, it's plotting my strategic move internally. And I think a lot of us don't really talk about internal moves, especially on the podcast. I definitely think I haven't really spoken about it much, and I think it's because I before obviously was a contractor, but I've never really done internal moves because I was always a contractor. So any move would always be external. But especially with the state of the employment market, the labour market, but also just looking at what opportunity actually looks like and defining my own success. And as I encourage you to define your own success, I think internal moves are really important, very important, because depending on your length of service, you've established a personal brand, and I'm gonna leverage that personal brand and see where it lands. And I really had to think about okay, you know, I have certain things in my contract that would prepare for director level roles. I don't necessarily think that I am entirely ready for a director level role. Um, and that could be covered in a separate podcast, but I'm already senior, okay? So I have I have a senior position. Director level role is on a different level. And I think the reason why I am taking my time on that trajectory is because I'm also putting my mental health first. And whilst I'm still building my personal brand, I've been in my organization for two years, I still have a few things I need to achieve before I focus on that. And that's part of kind of my internal move plan. So I'm planning to use all the feedback for that internal move because when this when I start doing things internally to facilitate a move, I want to be able to reference these people who gave me great performance reviews, but get them to support the move. Because internal moves are not just supported by your line manager, it's also other people you work with, either in finance, in compliance, in audit. All these people contribute and can potentially contribute to a move. And the reason I say that is because say if you have a line manager, that it's not that they don't want you to move, but moving means they're then gonna they're then gonna have to do some work that either replaces you and or the work themselves. Some line managers that I've worked with in the past would rather keep you in a role than you to leave because it suits them. And I'm not saying that that is necessarily reflective of my situation or even your particular situation, but in covering all bases and being strategic, it's important that you don't just have your line manager as an ally. And I understand internal moves usually and um have to be signed off by a line manager, but you need to also place that line manager in a situation where they have no choice but to approve an internal move. You need to keep a record of all the great things that you have achieved. You need to be able to give examples of output delivery and impact that's really, really important. And whether you are at a senior level, mid-level, junior level, it's the same concept, and it's something that I definitely really wanted to talk about today because when I sat back and thought about okay, Toya, yes, I could, you know, look at other external opportunities, but I don't want to have to do that if I don't have to. So, how do I make my current situation work for me unless I've concluded that it doesn't? And I don't think I'm there, I think that an internal move works because I'm now very clear about what I want, why I want it, and how I'm going to achieve it. Impact is really important when we're looking at delivery, how you've delivered your role. It's really, really important because that impact is more than just financial, it could be from a supporting role in in delivering. It could mean anything, but I think it's really important that I put that here. So if someone's listening, they are can they can think about these things if they are to move internally? And as and when things start to materialize, I'm actually going to share my strategy. I've written it all down. Um, using my sister scribble, stationary. Yeah, honey, I'm a shameless plug. Um, but yeah, that's kind of the feedback element of things. So for me, that feedback was strategic, and there's other strategic feedback that I'm I'm wanting to get for my performance review because I know that I have a longer plan of an internal move, and then we're gonna talk about that um soon, I'm sure. Something recently happened to me, and I shared it on my Instagram, and I want to share it here. So I was just minding my business and I received a message on um Teams, and the message came from a colleague who we're gonna call Arnold, and it was an exchange of a conversation between Arnold and Michael, and Michael was making some I wouldn't, I don't think the word is disparaging, but I would say unprofessional comments about me. So I'd done a piece of work, provided a recommendation, some mitigations, and some advice, right? And maybe this person just didn't like that it was coming from me. And one thing with me is I don't just say it for the sake of it, I provide examples, I can lean into past experience, and you know, the tone was very rude and critiquing my approach and another thing about Toya. I don't appreciate blah blah blah blah blah. And I was like, but what I couldn't understand was why Arnold was sent this to me. I don't know if Arnold fully read this or interpretated it the way he thought I would, but he just forwarded it to me. And I think now thinking about it, I think he didn't he just wanted me to sort it out without realizing it's not for me to sort. I don't think he fully looked at it, he just thought, ah, just pass it to Toya. And you have people that you work like that, right? That they just don't want to have to do it, so they just pass it on. So then what I did is I opened up a separate conversation with Arnold and Michael and advised them that I would be um putting in their diary a call in 10 minutes, and I can see they're both available. So we joined the call, and in that call, I I said, listen, it's come to my attention that there has been a um very negative receipt of uh a review that I recently done, and this was not positioned to me. And then I shared my screen, and in no, sorry, I put the PowerPoint um presentations I presented, and the PowerPoint presentation had four slides, and it basically each slide justified kind of and and my approach not justified, but provided why I could made this conclusion, my approach, and the final slide actually had um, I'd embedded the screenshots that had been taken into the slides, and I said, I really do not appreciate this conversation, and besides the fact that it is unprofessional, it's actually quite derogatory in its approach. And I said, I note the microaggressions, but if I just stick to what has been said here, I find it very, very concerning that these are the level of conversations we're having. And whilst I welcome um disagreement or another school of thought, I think there's a professional way in which to have those conversations with me. And in fact, this conversation was never had with me anyway. But in reality, if this is what's being said behind my back, I have concerns about the level of professionalism that we're showing to each other as adults in the workplace and as colleagues. I personally encourage collaboration, but clearly this is not what's been adopted as part of you know how you guys have or how you, Michael, have received what I've written. And their mouths were open, cameras were on, and I said, Well, I'm gonna give you all both 24 hours, just kind of come back to me with a resolution here because personally I just don't accept this type of behaviour, and now that this is shared with me, I can't pretend like I I haven't seen it. I'll put some time in your diaries for tomorrow and we can conclude this. They didn't say a word, not um not a response, and I gave opportunity for that nothing. Then I save the PowerPoint presentation in the shared drive, where we all have access and other people have access. Yeah, I did. Let me be very candid with you. Not everyone has to like you in the workplace, you know. Because I don't like everybody in the workplace, and I know that you know, some people sometimes you're drawn to others more than whatever. But basic professionalism is just knowing how to deal with people on a professional level. And if you're gonna write something down, have the good sense to make sure that that person is not going to see it. Now, the reason why I confronted them in that way is any other way having a conversation, whatever, I don't want to hear why or the justification. I'm really not interested in it, but I can't have you talking about me like this because one, I don't want you setting the tone to how other people will disrespect me. Absolutely not. Number two, I don't know what else you've said, and whilst I can't manage that, this is what I've been confronted with. So I have no choice but to deal with it. No matter how you want to focus on your work, you want to do your work, you want to keep your head down, there are people, honestly, that are just agitators. And part of that is some people just may just not like you. And I think that's okay, but it's how they dislike you. When you start saying things like another thing about that toyer, or another thing about that, uh, come on, are we talking about the work or is this your personal feelings about someone? Because as a black woman, if we are to share our personal feelings about the now, we're aggressive, we're rude, we're disrespectful, we're unprofessional, they've got a list, a shopping list of names for us. So now I've gotten to a point of depending on what's done, what's said, and how, it will depend on my response. To do it in a PowerPoint presentation is for me to show them that not just kind of the professional way that I've done it, it's more about letting them know that just because I show up, get things done, and I deal with you with respect, you better believe that if you since you want to go low, I'll go to hell. I don't do this low, high, or ignoring. And I think as black women, we do too much ignoring. I'm all for noting patterns, but I'm also I also consider what could potentially be the impact of this. Because I talk about being a brand in the workplace, I talk about credibility that can be broken and eroded over time. So part of our job is also to maintain our work, our work brand. It's really important. And what we're talking about in terms of our work brand is if I'm sitting here telling you all to be a subject matter expert, that can't live um just as a silo. There are things that we have to do to maintain that subject matter expert status, and also part of that is ensuring that we're still operating in an ecosystem that allows us to be a subject matter expert. People not agreeing with you, people having differences of opinions, people not liking you, that's all part and parcel of the workplace. But what you can't do is allow people to try and tear you down or recruit others to do that. Now they will go and tell others, ah, you see Toyo, yeah, don't try that with her because she's not gonna have it. He can't go around and say I'm unprofessional. I dealt with it in a very professional way. If HR, if we were to go to HR every time things like this happen, we'll we literally would be having, we'd have a seat at HR. We'd literally be sitting right next to them. So we have to now devise ways of being strategic, and this for me is strategic. Um so 24 after 24 hours after this, I receive a message from said colleague apologizing. I believe the apology is sincere because they're in caught, so clearly, and then requesting that I move remove the PowerPoint presentation from the shared drive. I haven't responded. That conversation that um Arnold or Michael had spanned three days, so the PowerPoint presentation will stay in the shared drive for three days, and then I will remove it. I'm not responding to the apology, I'm just not gonna say anything. I've made my point, I haven't raised my voice, I haven't had to beat my chest, I haven't shared, you know, how deep that runs. Because at the end of the day, we're not infallible, we're human beings. Why, like it's actually exhausting to have to deal with that, but knowing how to deal with it is equally as important. Yeah, they could have shut me down, they could have been like, oh yeah, halfway through interrupting me, and I still would have got to the end of it. I promise you, I was always gonna do that present PowerPoint presentation because I need to let them know this is this is literally the process I will go to to HR. If you keep going like this, if you want to take this road with me, this is the level of presentation I'm gonna be providing going forward. Simple. And I do think, yes, there is a level of, you know, I I've I've worked, I've been working like since I was 15 years old. I've been in my prep my profession for over 15 years. I I now know how to deal with these things when they come. A lot of these things that I like over the years has come from people writing stuff down and me somehow getting hold of it. I believe the ancestors are always working for me. And always have my back. But when certain things happen, I feel like people are like, oh, I don't, I'm, I don't want, I'm not confrontational. And I don't think you have to be confrontational or not. I don't think it's about that. But I think that you need to learn to advocate for yourself and defend your brand. And this is how I chose to do it. And I'm sharing it with you guys because I think, you know, people are like, oh, you know, there's ways of doing things. And I think it's about what you feel comfortable with, number one. And also it comes from a level of conf confidence in yourself. Like something I always say, I bet on myself all the time. Because I spent so long in um, you know, just not, I spent a lot of time not necessarily knowing who I was, especially my early 20s, where you're not necessarily supposed to, but also having this fantasy about what the world of work was and is. And now I've gone through things, I've seen things. We're now in the world of social media where people are sharing their experiences. You soon come to realize that actually, yes, there's no such thing as being completely comfortable in a workplace, etc. etc. But I get to I get to also contribute to the environment I want to work in by setting the tone and setting those boundaries. And I bet on myself all the time because as women and as black women, um, we continue to operate in spaces that are not very welcoming. As women, we understand the difficulties of working, especially in white-dominated spaces or male-dominated spaces where often there's not much room, if at all, for us. And then you're dealing with the mansplaining, the macro, microaggressions, you're dealing with gender discrimination and in some cases racial discrimination, disability discrimination. And I think it's just important that you we start learning how to set the tone. And sometimes it's not the loudest voices in the room, it's the strategy that you employ in moving forward. When I talk about betting on myself and identity and things like that, I think it's really important, I think, when we're talking about personal brands and how we operate in the workplace. I think that there's this narrative that when someone copies you, it's flattery. And I have a lot of emails in the Toy Talks mail box where people have said, Toya, how do we deal with when people like literally take credit for our work or you watch people emulate you and you're not getting the credit? And I want to go a bit deeper because I had a conversation with a friend recently, and you know, we'll talk about like work and stuff and things like that. But I was also talking to her or had mentioned when people try and take on your personality, I think it's really fucking weird. I really do. I definitely think when you get to a certain age, I'm 41 now. If you don't know who you are, that's your journey. But let's stop pretending that like you are who I am because you're not. That's mad. I think I think it's weird. And then when we add the world of work and that layer, you then start to realize that you're we're operating with adults um who actually, you know, they're you know, what do they say? They say um child children masquerading as adults. We see it all the time in the workplace the pettiness, the immaturity. I also want to talk about that in terms of identity and brand, because you know, a lot of people say, Oh, when someone copies you, it's flattery. And I actually don't agree with that because flattery would mean like you're being celebrated for who you are. But what tends to happen is when you're not being celebrated, yes, everything about you is being taken. Your style, your energy, your presence, your choices. And for me, that's not flattery, that's extraction, and I think it's really uncomfortable, it's a like it's a really uncomfortable conversation because people pacify it, they say, Oh, just take it as a compliment. But it's not always a compliment. Sometimes it's a lack of identity in someone else and access to yours. And this doesn't just happen in friendships, this also shows up in the workplace all the time. You'll be in environments where people don't fully acknowledge your value, don't celebrate your individual individuality, and don't amplify your voice. And whilst they don't have to, they'll copy you, they'll observe you, they'll study you, and then they'll replicate parts of you without the substance. And that's why identity is so important, especially now when you're walking into the workplace where, yeah, okay, some of us are masking, but you still need to know who you are, or at least go on that individual journey. And that's why identity is so important because confidence isn't just how you show up, it's about how well you understand yourself, your character, your standards, your boundaries, your personal brand, or the personal brand that you're trying to achieve. And when you don't have a strong sense of that, you become vulnerable in two ways. Either you start copying others to find yourself, or you allow others to take from you without question. So for me, this has become less about what someone else is doing and more about how I protect my energy because influence is powerful, but access to you should be intentional. And that means understanding the environments you're in, the people around you, how they influence you and how they hold themselves accountable. Because not everyone who is close to you is aligned with you. And in the workplace, this matters even more because your identity in the workplace becomes your brand, and your brand becomes your authority. And your authority that comes from your ability to deliver consistently, confidently, and as yourself or as your work self. And if you're in a space where you feel like you have to shrink or you notice people taken from you without ever acknowledging you, that's not a space where your identity is being respected. And the real power move is not becoming smaller, it's not becoming quieter, it's becoming clearer on who you are and more intentional about who gets access to that version of you. Because as I always say, I always bet on myself. And this is not because I think I'm anything, you know, like, or because I, you know, because I think I'm better than, or absolutely not. It comes from a space where I actually trust who I am, and I trust in my ability to deliver, and that to me is real confidence. That's what, in my opinion, real confidence looks like. So when they come in, they start adopting personalities that are not theirs, or they'll see someone who they admire. And rather than encourage support or whatever it is, especially if a person's maybe in a in a in a more senior role, they just adopt that person's personality, start copying, and then you should be flattered. Like, what kind of rubbish is that? And then when it comes to performance reviews, nobody wants to mention anything. You understand? That's why I said you're the architect of your career, and you have to bet on yourself always. Now, the way the internet has overflogged Emma Greed, though, ah god, Emma Greed is a marketing genius. Let's just first of all say that. Because I feel like people are also they're focusing on the wrong things, but they're also not seeing what the bigger picture is. This this lady, this, this, this millionaire, she's marketing her book. She wants to be a New York Times bestseller. And you know something she probably will do because the level of marketing, the interviews, she's had um sat down with um Kiki Palmer, Oprah Winfrey, I saw yesterday. And do you know what? I respect it. I really do. I've spoken about Emma Greed before on the Toy Talks podcast because I'm not really too sure about her. I'm not sure. There's something that doesn't sit comfortably with me, with her. I don't know. Like, I'll watch, you know, on her podcast. Okay, so first of all, her accent throws me off. I feel like sometimes she tries to adopt an American accent and it throws me off because I'm one of those people. Any inkling of a lack of authenticity throws me off. I just don't like it. Because I just think just be who you are. Like, whether if you want to adopt her accent, then do it all the time and do it with your chest. Not this one, my perennial. Sometimes she'll do that and she goes, and an apparently. And I'm like, girl, you know it's opportunity. Stop it. Every day she wants to remind us that she comes from Croydon. Is it Croydon? And all of this. And then after upper trend, like, girl, come on. If anyone can do Americano, it's uh in the in Nigeria now. We'll go to Nigeria, uh, we'll go to America for one week and come back with an accent. Like, girl, girl, I'm gonna need you to get it together because it that cringes me out. Sorry, it it really does cringe me out, so it kind of throws me. But I will watch, you know, um uh Dinah Ross's daughter, uh um uh Tracy Ellis Ross did an interview with Emma Greed, and I really enjoyed that. I really enjoy the interview that Emma Greed did with Cardi B. Um, and what other interview that I've seen that I really enjoyed? I can't remember now, but those are the ones. So I will I will listen to the interviews on specific people. Uh Amy Cole, Amy Cole, that was a good interview as well. So I just think I can take her in doses. I have downloaded her audiobook because I I really I'm one of those people that even if I'm not too sure, I will still see I'm not like I'm not one of those people, oh I don't like this, so I'm not like that, because you can get knowledge from anywhere. And I think it's really important to operate from a space of having an open mind because you never know where you can get knowledge from. So for me, it's like okay, fine, but she still is a multimillionaire co-founder of Good American, um, uh co-founder of uh Skims, and I really have enjoyed watching her strategic business moves with the Kardashians aligning herself, um, and irrespective of anything else, she is a is she is a brand development marketing genius. We've got to give it to her. Now, I do think that a lot of people don't talk about her proximity to whiteness insofar as what it's given her access to, she's married to a white millionaire. Yeah, she is her um she's racially ambiguous. That has provided her some advantages. Yes, it has. And those though, that's the level of authenticity I feel like. If she just came with that, I could fuck with that. Do you understand what I'm saying? But I hate this idea. I I hate that it's not even I hate the idea that people will take what they're given without question. It's really I find it really weird and weird. And this is why I say you have to know yourself, you know. It's really important to have confidence in yourself because don't get me wrong, we don't always feel confident all the time, but the fundamental core should be I'm a com I'm confident or I'm confident with this or confident in who I am, so that when somebody's telling you something, you take the bits that you need and the rest you leave, but also you use a critical mind to question what this person is feeding you. Emma Greed said that basically um you can't um be basically working from home is killing careers for women, basically. It's a it doesn't allow you that lack of visibility means that you're not going to be promoted. It's such a dangerous rhetoric. But I can understand that position and that viewpoint. If you have access to um nannies, one for each child, if you have a lot of money and you're rich and you're a millionaire and you have access to a net a massive network, then yeah, going into the office doesn't feel like a big deal. And you know, there's no consideration for what work-life balance actually means. I've been working remotely since COVID, and I I promise you it hasn't stalled my career. In fact, contracting exponentially grew my career, and being able to work remotely felt safer as a black woman and forced me to understand how to network remotely. Now, whilst I understand that visibility is important, visibility has to make sense. It has to make sense. So for me, um, where Emma Greed has suggested that for women to be successful, they need to be in an office and that working from home limits growth and limits visibility and ultimately limits success. I just want to be really clear that this isn't about like attacking her. This is not for me, anyway. It's not about attacking her, it's about interrogating the framework that sits behind that statement because it doesn't reflect the reality that most women are navigating. She doesn't. We're talking about a multimillionaire here who has general managers and other CEOs that sit underneath her. Um, so I do want to look at that a little bit, like the myth of visibility equals success. There's like there's this assumption that being seen leads to opportunity and that opportunity leads to success. But that only works in a system that's fair, and the workplace is not, it's it's not neutral. Visibility doesn't always equal value. And in the same breath, I must say that proximity does not always equal progression. And being seen does not mean being supported. I understand uh being seen. I get I understand it, but that doesn't mean that we have to completely remove remote working. That that to me doesn't work make sense because for some women, especially black women, visibility has often meant scrutiny, not increased opportunity, and it can mean being watched more closely, judged more harshly, and being expected to perform at a higher level just because you're can you're you're you just to be considered as equal. So the idea that simply being in the room guarantees success ignores how differently that people are treated once we get into that office. And and let's be real, she can pick and choose when she goes to that office, but going to that office every day, no. And people will then say, well, is the middle ground hybrid? Yes, for some people, but maybe the middle ground is actually working remotely, but then there is a I I definitely think there's a larger responsibility on you to understand that if you're gonna work remotely, you're gonna have to put in the work to understand how to network in that way. And I I will put my hands up and I'm gonna say, I have networked really well. I have. And the reason I've done it is because I know that if I'm not going to be hyper-visible face to face, there's additional work that I'm gonna have to do to be able to navigate and to strategically navigate my career working remotely. And I I think I mentioned it earlier, but we have to talk about the privilege gap in in regards to to kind of what Emma Greed has said. Because Emma Greed has built incredible businesses, like skims and good American, it's not beans. But her experience is shaped by access, access to wealth, networks, and resources. And for most women, we just simply don't have that, not to that level. She has proximity to power, she has access to childcare support, she has flexibility that is resourced and it's not negotiated, it's resourced, and that creates a very different reality for her. So she's not wrong for her life, but it becomes a problem when that experience is positioned as a universal truth. The average woman is navigating rising costs, limited support, and competing demands. Um, and for those of us who are our working mothers, raising children and managing a household and then building a career without that infrastructure that makes constant work office presence realistic. You know, how do you work a nine to five or a shift work, knowing that, for example, the education system operates from between 8:30 and 9 a.m. till 3? So what you're supposed to do? Childcare. Then we have to talk about resources. So her reality and ours are not the same. And when she talks in a holistic way that she does, it makes it seem like we're all we're not all on the same level playing field. The system doesn't allow, um, it doesn't allow, I guess it doesn't align with the reality of what motherhood is. Yeah, you can't have mothers who work shifts or a nine to five structure, and then school hours that run from 8:30, 9 a.m. till 3, and then you've got school holidays spanning over 13 weeks across the year. The average annual leave is around 25 days, yeah. 25 days, and they'll say, Oh, you've got the option to buy, or you could take unpaid leave. But in reality, why should you have to sacrifice financial um pay to have unpaid leave? What why why should you have to do that? Because you're now trying to balance work and life. Why that why does money have to be the sacrifice? Because if money is the sacrifice and taking unpaid leave, you're in a perpetual cycle where you can't fully have the balance of work and life. The workplace wasn't designed for mothers, yet women are still expected to operate within it. Flexibility isn't a luxury, it's a necessity. And remote work allows women to bridge that gap. Hello, that's what it does. Remote work gave us the ability, especially during COVID, to actually like actually see how remote work could work. We didn't see a drop in uh uh activity. In fact, a lot of organizations reported um a rise in profit, um, more engagement from colleagues. Yes, yes, because people are allowed, were allowed to balance. And whilst COVID was an extreme circumstance, it's something that we can't ignore because we were in a pressured environment, we were dealing with basically a public emergency, a global emergency, and still expected to deliver at work. Can you imagine? Because whether you're remote or in in person, you still need to deliver. You know, I it's weird because I have been asked often, so like whether it's the school drop off, um, nursery drop-off, or whether it's like I'm out someone I see someone, and um asked, Oh, um, are you hybrids? And I'm like, no, I work remote. And you see the look on people's faces, and it's that look of I'm sorry, but it is a look of jealousy, I'm not gonna lie. Call it what the fuck it is. People are jealous of certain people who work remotely, and part of it is because they know the advantages of working remotely. But I think some part of it is also, listen, whether you are hybrid and you're in once a week or you're fully remote, you have to also place yourself in a situation where you determine what works for you. Yeah. If you work for an organization that says you've got to be in the office five days a week and that doesn't work for you, then go and find an opportunity that does. It's really that simple because I I still had to go through an interview process, I've still had to lay the groundwork, I still have to show up. And let's be real. The average person that works remotely probably does more hours than their actual contracted hours. Because I'm telling you, I'll log on, my daughter goes to nursery, she goes breakfast club, I'll log on from 8 a.m. Yeah. I will work and then I log off to go and collect my daughter, and then I log back in in the evening. Yeah, because that's the that's the reality. I feel as though if an organization gives you flexibility, you will go over and above, above and beyond. It just is because for you, delivery means something different. It means that you're in a place where you could fully deliver because flexibility becomes an intrinsic part of your work. Flexibility, we're not saying that we want to take the afternoon off. We still have to, you will still have to go and request holiday like everyone else. But for me, I almost felt in not in, I don't want to say embarrassed, but awkward to even say it. So I'd be like, I'm hybrid. Because technically that's not wrong. Because every quarter, if I need to go in, I will, but it's not mandatory. It's not mandatory. When I was a contractor, I'd be like, Oh, I remember I had an interview and they were like, Oh, yeah, you've got to come in, I think it's like once a week, once or twice a week for a particular role. And I was like, No, no, and I didn't say it in the interview, but I said it to myself that offered me the role. I went back to the recruit, I said, Yeah, I'm not doing that once a week. Nah, I could do once a month or once a quarter, and they were like, Yeah, but that's a prerequisite. I said, Well, go back and tell them. And they were like, Yeah, that's fine. We're happy for Toy to do once a month if that's what she wants. And we Can put some words in that says it has to be for a reason, like defined. And if if that reason doesn't arise, then you know she'll be fully remote. Yeah, because you fall in love with me, you know I can deliver, you've seen my profile, you see my brand, you know what it is, and at the end of the day, you're gonna die on the heel of that one or two days a week. No, you're not, because at the end of the day, you still have a job that needs to be delivered, and you need a subject matter expert to do it. Leverage. Leverage. You don't go to the interview and say, Hey, I want to be remote, I want to be hybrid, and no, no, no, hybrid once a week. No, let them fall in love with you, let them want you. That's the art of career seduction. Hello, career seduction, career seduction. Yes, stop being being strategic and less emotional when it comes to that strategy. Ambition is not defined by where you work from, in my opinion. It's defined by how intentional you build a life that works for you. Because for some women, success will look like being in an office, and there's nothing wrong with that, building their visibility and climbing within the structure. But for others, success may look like flexibility, autonomy, and the ability to thrive without being physically present every day, and both are equally as valid. But only one of these narratives is being centered consistently, and that's where the conversation needs to shift. So where Emma Greed has asserted that, she's also talking about, you know, she she's not asserting what the solution and shift is because her reality doesn't actually require her or doesn't place any benefit on remote working. Her reality doesn't, because her real reality is funded by her riches, and it's funded by having a nanny, and it's funded by having all these other people where she can delegate to so that she can be in the office Monday to Friday. That's the truth. So let this be very clear in what I'm saying and the way I've broken this down. At the end of the day, the people who are saying, Oh, she's talking to a certain subset of people are very disingenuous. She's talking to every working woman because this book tour is going on certain platforms where she knows working women are gonna access. The degree of ambition should not be judged. Just because somebody works remotely doesn't mean they're less ambitious. You're talking me here. I'm the firstborn daughter of first-generation Nigerian immigrants. We all know what that is. I'm an Igbo woman, I'm not short of ambition. But what I'm short on is wasting my time traveling for two hours battling the transport system just so somebody can see the whites of my eyes. Don't work, don't make no sense. Anyway, I hope that I've covered that because I know that um certain people were asking me what my viewpoints were, and obviously I've spoken about Emma Greed before. And I do also want to note that it doesn't go above my head that she was supposed to sit down and do an interview with Patricia Bright on um the break podcast, and that didn't happen. These times Emma Greed has done every other platform, and I'm just like, girl, anyway, let me keep my opinion to myself for moving on swiftly. So I always say to you, whatever happens in politics will surely make its way into the world of work, or at least there'll be some alignment, or you could see the atmosphere change in the world of work, depending on what's happened in politics. And I do as much as possible try to cover UK and US politics because I definitely think whatever happens in the US finds its way here in the UK, vice versa. And I also think that I think it's really important that as women we take the time to understand politics, whether you're interested in it or not, because interest doesn't is not a requirement for it for decisions to affect you. So I've spoken about Keir Starmer before. In a previous episode, I spoke about Peter Mandelson. I went into a lot of detail. You guys actually really enjoyed that, and I I love research. I'm definitely a part-time geek. I love seeing how things like that come together. So I really want to um call this, I'm calling this segment one rule for them and another for us because I really want to talk about power process and what happens when the rules start bending depending on who you are. So obviously, I covered the whole uh Keir Starmer fighting for his job, um, and he faced a lot of um serious pressure um over his appointment of Peter Mendelssohn as the UK ambassador to the US, and we covered it in depth in a previous episode. And on the surface, on the surface, obviously he isn't and he has you know that go and listen to the other uh uh previous episode, but on the surface of it, it does sound like politics as usual, but when you really break it down, this is actually a workplace story. So, just to recap very briefly, here's a situation. Peter Mandelson was announced um for this really sensitive role as the ambassador to the United States, and this was done, this announcement was made before the full security vetting process had actually been completed. So, for context, this isn't just like reference check-in or a quick like HR form. We're talking about developed vetting, often referred to as DV, a DV security clearance, and it's one of the highest um level of security clearances in the UK, right? Um, that process is handled by the UK security vetting, but the final decision then sits with the Foreign and Commonwealth and Development Office, so we call that FCDO, right? So you'll have the vetting process, and then the FCDO would literally make a final decision and sign it off or not sign it off. So this is actually where it actually got really messy because the vetting body, the UK security vetting, had really serious concerns about you know enough enough for them to recommend that Peter Mandelson have go through security clearance. But the department like still went ahead and granted it to him. So when they did the security vetting, he did actually pass it, but he was still granted it. So now this power, proximity to power, power and money. Ay ay aye. So now this really escalated when a senior civil servant, um, Sir Ollie Robbins gave evidence to Parliament this week. And what he said was really telling. He said his team in the vetting, that security vetting department, they were under constant pressure from number 10 to get the appointment done, get the vetting done. It wasn't about whether it was safe or not, should we proceed? They didn't ask that, but just when will it be ready? And this tells you everything you need to know about the mindset. So naturally, the question has now become what did Keir Starmer actually know? Because Peter Mandelson did not pass the betting, but he was still cleared to do that role. So Keir Starmer, he's now very clearly said that had he known that the recommendation was to deny clearance, he would not have made the appointment. And he's even admitted that that was a mistake. But here's the thing leadership isn't just about what you personally knew, it's also about the environment you create. And we have to also bear in mind that before the clearance had started, done, considered, Peter Mandelson was already announced. They already announced it and said, Oh, Peter Maddelson, uh, I think he's called I think he's a no Lord, he's a Lord, isn't he? Lord Peter Mandelson is now the UK ambassador to the US. They already made that, they didn't do any of the vetting, the what we would call in the workplace compliance checks. They didn't do anything, they just appoint, they just announced the appointment. So that in itself creates the pressure to then have him do the role. Do you understand? So that's what when they talk about environment and what it created, it will always create pressure because you've already you've you what did they say? The horse is already bolted. So now it's like, can you really, if he's failed it, can you really now withdraw it without controversy? So this is now where people are now questioning what did Keir Starmer know? Did he know that Peter Mandelson didn't pass it and yet still went ahead to allow him to fulfill that role as the US ambassador to uh the UK ambassador to the US? Because that creates a massive risk. And obviously, lo and behold, uh Peter Mandelson's links to Epstein meant that he had to resign. He had to step up, he was sacked or resign, whatever the case is. So this is where people start looking at those around Keir Starmer, including his chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney. And people are asking where did the pressure from number 10 come from? Like that pressure that Sir Ollie Ro uh Oli Robbins said that he felt from number 10, his vetting team, where the question is that where where who in number 10 created that pressure for uh uh the vetting team to to clear or to to do the process as quickly as possible? Because what we're what we're seeing isn't necessarily one rogue decision, it's a system where speed and optics seem to have taken priority actually over process. So if we strip this back, there are three like failures, like three key failures. So the first is the process failure. You don't announce someone for a role as sensitive as the UK ambassador to the US before vetting is complete, and and that's full stop. Second is a communication failure. If the prime minister genuinely wasn't told about a negative recommendation, that's a serious breakdown. And Kia Starmer, as the Prime Minister of the UK, has faced very serious breakdowns in comms every other month. If someone's not resigning, he's asking them to resign. How many people from his cabinet have had to resign? And the third is cultural failure because when teams feel pressure to deliver an outcome instead of assess risk, process becomes a formality. So you're not placing um importance on the process, it's just uh, but it's just a formality. So if it's a formality, it's not given the seriousness, the respect, and the criticalness that it should. Is criticalness a word? I don't know. But you get my point. And this is why this matters, in my opinion, everything that's happening matters more beyond politics because in your job, and definitely in my job, we don't get to skip process. You don't get the role before your references are checked, you don't bypass compliance because someone likes you, you don't walk into a high-risk position on vibes and connections. So the real question is: why does it look like the rules become flexible the closer you get to power? And let's be honest, this is where conversations about privilege come in: access, proximity, influence. Because when you've been like in elite spaces for long enough, process can start to feel like a suggestion and not a requirement. But those rules exist for a reason, especially when national security is involved. And obviously, we've seen these links to Epstein and some of what has been implied. Go and listen to the previous episode. So, whether Keir Starmer as a Prime Minister of the UK knew the full detail or not, he owns the decision, and more importantly, he owns the environment that allowed that decision to happen. The decision that there were serious concerns about vetting. Peter Maddelson did not pass the vetting but was signed off. In our workplaces, not just the government, when process is ignored at the top, it doesn't just bend the rules, it breaks trust. And this is why Keystarma is fighting for his job because the calls have come in loud that he should step down and resign. People that are resigning around him, his chief of staff, um uh Sir Oli Ro uh Sir Oli Oli Robbins, he has uh he was asked to resign, so he's resigned. All these people are resigning, they're scapegoats. They are scapegoats because at the end of the day, the calls have now come in and they're saying the buck stops with Kia Starmer, the Prime Minister, Kemi Badanock, the leader of the opposition um conservative party, has said that he needs to resign. And I'm gonna be really honest, I think he needs to resign too. I think he does because it the mess is the mess is bigger than him. The mess is and when I say bigger than him, it's bigger than him because once you break trust, nothing he ever does or says will be given the same weight, and I think it speaks to yes, power, proximity, all of that, yeah. But I think this also speaks to politics in the workplace. You can't have process embedded into the workplaces, but in the highest sensitive offices in government, those processes become optional. But then I do want to take the conversation a bit further because how many of us have worked in organizations whereby somebody doesn't have an interview and is just offered the job? Can we apply the same thinking? And I would say yes, because okay, they'll still have to go through the compliance checks, but it's just about how people bend the rules to suit them, it's who you know. And people say, well, who cares about fairness? It's about your connections and how you network. But actually, fairness is important because I've worked in organizations before where I've had maybe three, four rounds of interviews before I've gotten a job, right? And then after seeing someone who doesn't even have the background skills to do the job, just because they know somebody, they walk into a role, they'll still do the compliance stuff, but the the bar of compliance is lower. Do you know what I mean? Because this person knows them. I wonder how much emphasis somebody would put in to somebody who just kind of doesn't even have an interview or maybe has a conversation, gets offered a job, and maybe their um their uh references, you know. Well, the references are standard. I don't know, like I I think that when we look at process and how it's adopted, it needs to be universal. The reality is it's not, but when we look at sensitive roles, you can't bend the rules to suit you. And in the workplace, sometimes it happens. It does, it really does. Now, what we're saying is if in the highest offices in government they bend the rules or bend the rules in sensitive roles, then what's to talk about other roles? And then you start looking at compliance. I think it was recently they they spoke about how um the police force they go through like um a vetting process, and after like the person will go through a vetting process, maybe they've been enrolled for 10 years and that's it, there's no other follow-up vetting. So when we look at the emphasis and the importance of vetting or any type of sensitive role and what is required to make sure that the person has still got good standing, we need to also look at how often we do those checks. People's circumstances change. But I think in sensitive offices and sensitive positions in the UK, they don't put enough emphasis into why those processes exist. Because if they did, they wouldn't be so willing to flex, bend, or question whether those processes are even needed. Because there was a suggestion at the start when um the announcement was made about Peter Mandelson about whether he really even needed any security clearance or vetting, which is crazy, especially if you know his background. Ah, this man has hey, you need to go and read it. Anyway, let's move on. So let's talk about Vogue and what's been circulating recently involving Vogue and what people are calling the cloud bob. Yeah. In a recent fashion feature, Vogue used the term cloud bob, and it was them describing a soft, kind of like rounded, voluminous hairstyle, and visually, what many of us would immediately recognize is an afro, okay, and that a beautiful Afro puff. And that language has sparked a lot of backlash, especially from our black community, because it felt like something very familiar in the way it was being reframed, renamed, and reintroduced without actual context. And let's be clear, this isn't about whether hairstyles evolve, because we know it does, and they definitely do. Um, languages evolve, and so so does trends. But the issue here is the erasure through reinvention, and I think that's a very important point to make because you can't then understand that and not talk about colonization because that is a form of colonization, if you ask me. Now, I just want to be clear for maybe some listeners who don't understand like what the Afro hairstyle represents or the history, and it's not just the hairstyle, it's a deeply political, historical, and cultural aspect to the Afro hairstyle. So obviously, even for myself and educating myself, it's really important that we understand historically that in the 1960s and 70s, during like Black Power movement, the Afro became more of a symbol of resistance. It it was a rejection of that whole Eurocentric beauty standard that black people were told um where their natural hair was unprofessional, unkept, or something that should be hidden or altered. So wearing an Afro was a statement. Um, I'm not assimilating, I'm not shrinking myself, I'm not conforming to your standard of beauty. This is my identity. It was defiance and it was pride. So when something with that level of meaning is casually rebranded as the cloud bob, it does strip away the context that made it powerful in the first place. And this is where it moves beyond fashion and into power because the question is not just like what was said, but who has the power to redefine culture and have that redefinition accepted? Because renaming something like the Afro doesn't happen in a vacuum, it happens in a system where black culture is very much and very often borrowed without credit. Black people are still being penalized for the same traits others are being like praised for, and the mainstream platforms can reshape narratives at scale. That's where the discomfort really actually, for me anyway, comes from, and for many of us comes from. Because when something is renamed by it like a dominant group, it often comes with detachment from its origins, softening of its political edge, and repackaging for mainstream consumption. And that's not appreciation, that's translation of palatability. And this is where I mentioned earlier earlier that it connects to a bigger pattern of colonization because colonization wasn't just about land, it was about renaming, reframing, and rewriting identity. So when you take something that already existed and you give it a new name, a new meaning, and a new owner, then what we're seeing is something like the cloud bob. It doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like neutral, it doesn't feel natural, but it does feel familiar because historically that's how power was operated. You define it, you rename it, and then you control the narrative. So what makes this particularly frustrating is the contradiction, if I'm completely being honest, because in many professional spaces, especially in the UK, black people are still navigating biases against natural hair, policies that quietly favor Eurocentric standards, and then this need to manage your appearance to make it be seen as acceptable. So, how can the same thing be unprofessional on one person but a trend in another? That inconsistency is where the tension actually really lives. So, this isn't about, I guess, this cloud bulb and this what Vogue is trying to push, it isn't about the outrage for the sake of it. It's about recognition. If you're going to celebrate something, then name it correctly the afro. If you're going to borrow from a culture, then acknowledge it, reference it, say it, provide that historical background. That you're leveraging to now put another name. And if you don't understand the history behind something, pause before you actually try to redefine it so consider your narrative. Because not everything needs rebranding, and some things just need respect. And I definitely feel that that culture is heavily referenced, heavily used without reference. Heavily re packaged and rebranded. Um did it. What did you call it? Box of brains, or what you call try to call it. It's the exact same thing. If you have that proximity to power and money, then you get to re you get to rebrand the culture. You get to take without reference, you get to entitlement on a different level. And this is why this colour bump is not it's not like whatever. It's called the Afro. Read about it. So this is where I draw the episode to uh until next time. Um I've really enjoyed this episode of delivering it. I hope you have as well. Drop your comments, um, your questions, your thought-provoking insights, um, whatever you listen to your um podcasts. Um whatever you listen to your podcast on because I'm really interested in maybe some of your views about some of the topics that I've covered. Um, I definitely think that we should want to read Emma Green's new book. Um, I've downloaded it actually on Audible because I Emma Green. I don't always have the time and I can't delegate. Um so I I can't always I'm not always in a position to delegate, but I have downloaded the book and it's cool to start with yourself. If it's um on Audible, it's nine hours and 14 minutes, so I've got to have a disappointment tomorrow. So I will be listening to that book. So maybe in a week or two, we should come back and review like a book review. Let me start because I would love to do that like a book review on the podcast. I'd love that. Would you like that actually? That's a question. Leave your comments, let me know. Um, I will say one of my favourite books, my top ten favourite books, or top five, is 50 Cent Hustle Hard Us to start there. Um, but yeah, maybe in about a week or two, let's come and reconvene and give our reviews and points and considered thoughts on Emigre's new book would start with yourself because that would be great. Emigre, if you ever listen to this podcast, you'll come across it. Oh whatever. Girl, come back to me. Um probably will never listen to this. Maybe not just the half of me on my behalf, please. My market uh my marketing strategist, uh communication specialist. Anyway, let me leave it there.com. Um I have um products on there that range from all the things that I've mentioned to greet and cards as well, which you guys are loving. Um, we are also doing international orders, which is amazing. So we do do international thank you for all your love and support. If you have a work related or like related, you want us to discuss it on the podcast, your academic will be respected. Please email hello at toy talks.com. If you want to have something a topic, or you want me to discuss a topic in your comments for you listening to your podcast, or email hello at toy talks.com. Thank you so much for listening to your support, always my toys appreciate it. My name is Toyota, and you have been listening to the toy talks.