Behind The Mike Podcast
Behind The Mike Podcast is a Christ-centered show where host Mike Stone dives deep into inspiring stories and profound insights from guests who view life through a biblical lens. Each episode offers hope, encouragement and wisdom to help you navigate life's challenges with faith and purpose.
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Behind The Mike Podcast
Confronting Evil: Insights into Modern Exorcism
Explore the riveting world of spiritual warfare and exorcism as we welcome back the ever-insightful John DiGirolamo to Behind the Mike Podcast with Mike Stone.
Discover the evolution of exorcism rituals and practices from his latest book, "It's Not About the Devil," where John shares exclusive insights from interviews with the co-author of a training manual for exorcists. Dive into the intricacies of how exorcisms have become more formalized and standardized in response to rising demands, with a thorough vetting process involving mental and physical evaluations, and learn about the power of Christ working through exorcists in these complex cases.
Our discussion unravels the risks and misunderstandings surrounding occult practices like Ouija boards and witchcraft, emphasizing the importance of recognizing demons' observational nature and their ultimate goal to distance us from divine love. John's perspective sheds light on the fact that not all challenges are demonic in nature, but personal decisions play a significant role. By strengthening our relationship with God, we can navigate spiritual challenges more effectively, resisting the devil's attempts to veer us away from our path of faith and service.
As we wrap up this captivating episode, John offers hope and strategies for maintaining a strong spiritual life to defend against diabolic influences. He encourages listeners to invoke the armor of God for protection, emphasizing the role of prayer, church involvement, and avoidance of the occult. We’re incredibly grateful to John for sharing his knowledge and urge our audience to seek out further insights in his book series. For those yearning for guidance in their spiritual journey, John's thought-provoking perspectives provide a comprehensive understanding of modern evil and the spiritual battles we face.
#catholicchurch #exorcist #halloween #spiritualwarfare #foryou #occult
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00:00 Welcome and Recap of Previous Episodes
01:06 Introduction to John's Latest Book
02:18 Understanding Exorcism and Spiritual Warfare
04:07 The Process and Challenges of Exorcism
08:01 The Influence of Demons and Modern Society
09:26 Dangers of Occult Practices
13:31 Understanding Demonic Knowledge
15:11 The Spiritual Realm and Its Influence
17:53 The Devil's Long Game
20:20 Exorcism: Myths and Realities
24:25 Can Christians Be Possessed?
26:18 Final Thoughts and Resources
Hey, welcome back to Behind the Mic Podcast. We are here once again with John DiGirolamo and if you missed the last two episodes, we started out first of the series talking about online predators Absolutely have to go back and listen to that if you missed it. There's so much great information that John gave us about the research that he's done on that. And then the last episode, we talked about the pro-life issue. That we said is not a political issue, because it's really not. It's about the value of life and we really want you to listen to that as well. Whether you are for or against, we want you to listen and glean from a little bit of the wisdom that John found in talking to the doctor. That was in his latest book, which is called it's Not About the Devil. John, welcome back to the show. I thank you for doing the series with us. Again, for those who are just joining us for the first time, can you tell us who you are and really briefly about your book and what it is?
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, it's great to be back. Thank you, I appreciate that. So my latest book is called it's Not About the Devil, and so it's people who are fighting modern evil. And who's the ultimate predator? Well, that's Satan, and Satan's job is to corrupt our souls, and so this book deals with the insider's view of what happens in an exorcism. I interviewed the guy who co-wrote the manual, the training manual for Exorcists, and so I feel like I've really got the you know, the real scoop for the readers, and it's all told in a story, so there's a plot line, but all of the truth and the training and all the things that happen is all revealed through storylines, action, dialogue, emotions, etc. So it reads like a fast-paced fiction novel, even though it's all based on real case files of an exorcist.
Speaker 1:Wow, I think tackling that exorcism and spiritual warfare is really what we're talking about. Spiritual warfare Right. It would definitely heighten my sense of spirituality, the Holy Spirit within me. I would be leaning heavily on the Holy Spirit in researching this. So I have to first ask so this research was done through someone who wrote the Guide to Exorcism Talk a little bit about what that is. That sounds interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in the old days the exorcist would essentially find an apprentice to train and train them on what they needed to do, them on what they needed to do. But now that's become a little bit more formalized process because the church is getting a lot more requests and so we're seeing a rise in that, and they needed to really make sure there was consistency and standardization of what an exorcist needs to know and how they need to do that. And so they wrote a training manual and I interviewed the person who co-wrote it.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's interesting and I'm sure that you probably learned an awful lot about spiritual warfare and exorcism in this whole section of your book, which I want to get into as well toward the end. We'll make sure people know how to get a hold of this, because you're not just getting the story about exorcism, you're getting the story about the culture of death in our society and you're also getting the online predator story, so really, this is like three stories in one book, so make sure you get a hold of that. We'll talk about that toward the end. But, john, what did you learn in this study with on this research, with the section of the story?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really wrote this for the non-expert. So I look at myself at the beginning of this process and the only thing I knew was things that I may have seen in movies and just other articles, things like that. It's not something that really a lot of people talk about but get sensationalized by Hollywood. So I learned a lot of things about what goes into that, and the big picture is that the devil is really busy and will take advantage of a person whenever they can, and you know so.
Speaker 2:The demons are fallen angels, right, they fell from grace because they rejected God and they really hate humans, hate humans. So their entire goal is to corrupt our souls, to get us into sin, get us into rejecting God, and so that's the framework. They're busy trying to do this, but when it comes to a possession where an exorcism is required, that is, it's pretty rare. There's a lot of other things that demons can influence our lives in diabolic affliction, but a possession is actually pretty rare and it's a long process. It's rarely a one and done and in the afternoon throw a little holy water on somebody and call it a day. That's not what happens. It can take months and there's a vetting process. Many times it's a mental health issue or a physical issue. Before anyone even sees an exorcist, they're getting a full mental evaluation, physical evaluation. That's something I'd never heard of before. So the church takes this very seriously, this vetting process, and so I think that's kind of one of the surprises that I learned.
Speaker 2:The other thing is that the exorcist doesn't have any power. They're invoking all the power of Christ, and so that's really important. Where an exorcist will tell you it's not me, it's Christ working through that exorcist. So that's another really important factor. But one of the other big surprises was was if the person doesn't want the demon to leave, the demon won't.
Speaker 2:Now I know the audience is probably saying wait a minute. Why would anybody not want a demon to leave if they're afflicting them or they're actually possessed? And the reason is that if the person is so attached to their sin or however they got into this situation, if they're so attached to that that they prefer that to the power of Christ, the demon won't leave. The demon is there because they've been invited in somehow, and there's many ways that that can happen. But if they don't want that, uh, that demon to leave because they're so attached to that, then no matter what the exorcist priest uh will do, doesn't matter that demon's not going to leave, and that was kind of a surprise when I heard that from multiple experts.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, I guess I hadn't ever thought about it, but it kind of makes sense that I believe. You know, god is not going to force himself on us. We're not robots. He's not going to tell us that we have to follow him. We don't really want that. That's not freedom, and I would think it would kind of be the same way for Satan and demons is that they want to be invited. I think personally and you can correct me if I'm wrong because you know a lot more about this than I do, but I think personally you said it's rare I think Satan can do just as much, if not more, damage without possessing someone, absolutely, just by spreading that. You know we've talked about depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts. I think those are probably pretty effective for most people. So I think that answers my question as to why we don't see more possessions. Am I even close on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true. The devil is very active. He doesn't have to possess us to ruin our lives, so to speak. It can be through temptation, it can be believing lies that you know God doesn't mocked by politicians, celebrities, media, etc. You know God has left the public square, has left the schools, and what's going to fill that void? Well, it's not going to be something good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, amen, and I guess I have lots of questions. This could be a very long episode. We'll keep it normal. So, you know, we've heard, I think as Christians growing up in the church, I've heard things like stay away from Ouija boards, stay away from horoscopes, stay away from, you know, ouija boards, stay away from horoscopes, stay away from you know. Now I see what pornography can do to destroy not just one person but an entire family and even beyond that. Are we opening ourselves up to Satan and demons just by simply looking at horoscopes or playing on? You know, I think it's I don't want to say the company, because I'm not sure and I don't want to degrade the other one, but there's a game out there. Basically it's in the game section a Ouija board. Are we opening ourselves up more so to demonic activity with those things?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the quick answer is yes, but let me give you the background as to why that's it. The answer is yes. So if you invite God into your life, he is going to respond. If you invite a demon into your life, well, he's going to respond too. Now, how do you invite a demon and why would anyone want to do that?
Speaker 2:Well, if you look at the occult practices, what is the occult trying to do? It's trying to get power and knowledge that isn't ours to get. It isn't available in the natural world. So if you're trying to conjure up power and knowledge, that's not coming from God, it's coming from a fallen angel, it's coming from a demon. So you mentioned Ouija boards. Well, what is the point of a Ouija board? To get this sort of forbidden knowledge that we normally would not want to do? So Ouija boards and other occult practices, horoscopes, things like that for sure can open the door, as well as witchcraft, especially Now.
Speaker 2:I'm not telling your listeners that if you played with a Ouija board at a group of kids in college 20 years ago, that all of a sudden you're going to get demonic oppression. That's not what I'm saying. But, like any other risk, the more that you engage in that risk, the more likely that you're going to have negative consequences. So if you're trying to conjure up power, say from witchcraft, which is now a growing phenomenon, you look up witches of TikTok and you will see tens of millions of views, and especially with kind of young adult women, we're seeing a rise in witchcraft. And what is that all about? A lot of it is casting spells and you're trying to conjure power that is not yours to get. It's not coming from God. Therefore, the only other place it's coming from is those dark forces.
Speaker 1:Now, john, I've also heard that you know we're talking about fortune telling, we're talking about tea leaves, we're talking about any of those occultic, witchcraft type things, even to the Ouija board, even as a kid's game, which is just crazy to me that it's on the listing of a game. I've heard that Satan does not have. God is all-knowing, satan is not, and I've heard that anything that Satan reveals about you is only because he's verified that by being around us. Does that make sense, if I'm asking that correctly, that he's not all-knowing and that anything that he brings up is something that you've said or something that he knows from conversation that we have? Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so demons don't fight fair, so that's something we need to remember. And they, like angels, are infused with knowledge when they were created. But demons, as well as angels and humans, can learn through observation.
Speaker 2:So when they you know, tell you things that they shouldn't know, or or you know in a seance or fortune telling or something like that. It's because they've learned through observation and they're waiting for that moment when you might be vulnerable, when you might be tempted. And so I think you're absolutely right is they've gained this through observation of our behavior. And you know, demons move at the speed of thought. They can be anywhere anytime. They're not in a physical world, they're in a spiritual world only, which means they're not constricted by distance and miles and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think the reason I asked that question is because if you've ever been involved in anything and you say I hear what you're saying but there's no way that that person could have told me this it is demonic. But the demons and Satan himself don't have that all powerful knowledge that God does and that, just because something was done, it's no different than somebody listening to this conversation and then going to one of us and telling us something that they would have only heard from here. Really bad analogy, but really I think that we need to understand that so that when we're in situations, or if you have been in situations like that and you go but they told me something or they did something that no way could they have ever known otherwise, or they did something that no way could they have ever known otherwise, we have to be.
Speaker 1:I think I said it in the first episode we have to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves, and there's a lot that God has to say in His Word about the power of the enemy and I, I think, in situations where you talked about seances too, I think, when we open ourselves up to that, I don't think we're going to walk away and be possessed or visibly controlled by a demon. I think that, again, I think it goes back to this gradual kind of nudging and poking and prodding and saying do you really—and Satan said this in the garden, did God really say that? And making you question everything about God. So I think I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. But I think that we really do just need to understand how the spiritual realm works and be aware of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know the devil wants you to move farther away from God. That's kind of the bottom line. And how do they do that? They want to convince you that God doesn't exist, god doesn't love you, you don't need God. You can make up your own rules. You can make up your own rules and you should pursue things in your own self best interest.
Speaker 2:Yet we know that biblical values focus on service to others, sacrifice. You know, loving loving others, wanting the best for others, loving others, wanting the best for others. And so if you are moving away from God, that's eventually going to be problematic. That may or may not have anything to do with demonic activity. Let's face it Most of the time we're our own worst enemy. We're our own choosing of the wrong path. Many times we have no one else to blame from ourselves. So I definitely don't want your listeners to think that there's a demon around every corner and you know every time something pops into their head, it's a demon talking to them, because a lot of times it's our own worst enemy. So that's definitely something to keep in mind, that our goal should be to strive to be closer and closer to God every day, every month, every year, etc.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. And that brings to mind something I heard from a couple of pastors over the years, and that is when we talk about sin in our lives or things that go wrong in our lives, they can point it to three things. It's either Satan, it's either God correcting, or it's us, and those are the three entities at work God, us or Satan. And a lot of times I think we give Satan more credit than what he deserves because a lot of the times and you just said it a lot of the times it's just us making poor decisions, making bad choices, and those things can take years to reconcile. Yeah, really good stuff, John. What surprised you most out of this whole knowledge, experience that you had in this research, most out of this whole knowledge?
Speaker 2:experience that you had in this research. Is there anything that stands out to you? Yeah, I think that you know just that the devil is real and he's really busy and he's active and the devil plays the long game. You know, he may be looking for an opportunity when you're 50 years old, not when you're 18 years old.
Speaker 2:That's right, and so he's going to look for those vulnerabilities, for the time when you're mad at God for some reason because something bad happened in your life, and he's going to try to take advantage of that. You know, possession is rare. You know that's where the story is, but the story is broader of that. You know possession is rare. You know that's where the story is, but the story is broader than that. It talks about somebody who is in habitual sin, had a, you know, a girlfriend who was in the occult, also participated in the occult, and so the story goes through some of these dangers and also you know how this person was attached to their sin and how they finally, you know, were able to break free.
Speaker 2:And that can be really inspirational because you know most of the time, you know, we know what we've done.
Speaker 2:That's wrong, but we did it anyways, and maybe the devil was putting a little, you know, temptation in our ear. But let's face it, god gave us free will and so you know, breaking free of those bad habits is what we all need to do, and I think reading the story and seeing how this person did that and how you know what happened before, during and after an exorcism is a big part of the story and you know, I interviewed somebody who was possessed and I asked them what goes through your head when you know that you're in that situation, and so that's woven into the plot line and I think it makes it really interesting. And you know, I tell people this story is not sensationalized, but that makes it even more powerful. You know there are some things that Hollywood gets right, such as holy water and the effects of that on somebody who's possessed, and so you'll see the things that are true that Hollywood gets right, but it also dispels a lot of the sensationalized stuff. So I think that that's a big part of the story as well.
Speaker 1:John, at least one more question I have to ask you. In all of this you mentioned earlier about going through this process before someone performs an exorcism, counseling and things like that. Is it mental health? So tell us, what does that look like? I think we go back to the Exorcist and, like you said, countless horror movies from Hollywood and we have preconceived ideas of what a possessed person looks like. I would imagine if you think about the famous scene of the little girl in the bed during the Exorcist, how do you take someone like that to a counselor? My question then, with that thought process, is does it look like that all the time? If someone is possessed, are they at times worse than others?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah. So you bring up a good point, because what Hollywood is showing in a movie like that in that scene, is when the demon is what they call manifesting itself, where there may be speaking foreign languages, they're having superhuman strength that a child or a 90 pound woman shouldn't have. Things like that. And that happens a lot during the exorcism rite, when certain prayers are being recited, where certain holy relics are being shown to that person. But when that's not happening, the person may be completely in charge of their faculties and can have a normal conversation. So the Hollywood scenes is not what that person's going through, hour after hour, day after day. It's really only when they're going through the exorcism right, which is why many times it takes months, sometimes years, for it to happen. And they can. You know the exorcist it's a very grueling process. They can only do it for a couple of hours at a time, and so those other times, before they're even getting to that point, they're going to get vetted.
Speaker 2:There's going to be a lot of questions about the background of this person and really trying to figure out if there is a demon there, why, what happened, how did they get invited in, and only until the exorcist can figure that out? Can they really figure out what to do next and kind of how to deal with that situation? There's a lot of people who try to fake it. There's a lot of people who may have bipolar or schizophrenia or things like that. That can look like it's really diabolic affliction, but but is not so they're. They're very careful about, you know, getting someone in in the room with an exorcist and with a team. There's usually five or six other people there praying, helping out, praying, helping out. It's never somebody alone, and so I can just say that all the ones that I've interviewed really talked about a pretty strong vetting process. Of the hundred people that come to them, maybe 1% are really truly possessed them.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe 1% are really, truly possessed. Wow, well, I would say in the end, life is hard as a believer, but it could be much worse. I would say follow Christ. If you have doubts, boy, seek him out. Because I think in what you're talking about, in just maybe that 1%, that very small amount of people who are actually possessed. We don't want to go there. And it does prove, as you said, satan is real. I think, if anything else that you take from this, satan is real and if Satan's real, certainly there's a God who is real and that God loves you and that God wants to spend eternity with you. John, a question that probably everybody listening and watching is asking themselves right now can a Christian be possessed?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah, um, you know, having um it it and it depends on on an invitation that that that person may have done through the occult, through habitual sin, um, there there can be things such as um, you know somebody who who has, uh, was consecrated to Satan as a child and and there could be underlying factors there. And so you know, really the best defense is a strong offense, right, it's getting your relationship with God as strong as possible, god as strong as possible, praying, going to church, avoiding the occult, repenting for your sins. That's the best defense against any kind of diabolic affliction.
Speaker 1:And I think you said it earlier too because I do question whether or not a Christian can be possessed. But I think the key either way, the key is really that invitation, whether it's an open invitation or whether it's that kind of uninvited invitation where you're dabbling in that stuff, you're basically inviting. So, for those listening, you know, grab that Bible and do some research. You know, john, you said it well just follow hard after the Lord. You know we said it in the predator episode that the predators are out looking for you. You don't have to look for them. And that's the same way with this is the enemy is out there trying to seek, kill and destroy. You don't need to go looking for him. So if you're dabbling in any of that stuff, wow, beware. So yeah, prayed up, seek more of God each day and he will protect the heart.
Speaker 1:So, john, I want to give you final—we could talk. I have so many questions. We could talk for a long time and I would love to have you back, as I invited you before. But do you have a final word on this for those who are listening and watching, who are interested in this and maybe want to know more? We want to talk about your book. So let us know where we can get a hold of that, where they can find you online. But I want to give you a final word here. Do you have anything else to add to those who are watching and listening?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it really comes down to invoke the armor of God. It's there. God will protect you. Develop your relationship as best you can, and that can come in many different ways. It can be in prayerful thought, it can be through Bible study and surround yourself with people who are like that, you know, have friends and family that you spend time with, that are also seeking that relationship with God, and you'll be the better for it.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. The book is. It's Not About the Devil and you're going to get three in-depth stories. We kind of scratched the surface here with these three episodes. But, john, where can we pick that book up? And I would encourage everyone to do so. You just heard just a little bit about each of those sections and man, such powerful, great information to hone your wisdom on each of those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so all my books sell on Amazon as well as Barnes Noble online. There's print versions as well as audio and e-books. My website is wwwitisnotaboutcom, where you can find out more about the books myself and a way to contact me directly.
Speaker 1:John, we want to thank you for being here. Great series, the book. I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on it. I've just read little bits of it. I want to read through that and glean from all of your work, all of your knowledge. Thank you so much for being on and sharing all this information with us, and we would love to have you back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'd love to be back. Thanks so much for your time and really appreciate being on the show and a way to connect with your audience.
Speaker 1:Amen, and for those listening and watching, don't forget to subscribe and hit that notification bell. We want to let you know anytime we have somebody like John on the show where you can glean some great information. This conversation is always about hope, and there is always hope regardless of the situation you're in. So take care and God bless.
