MFREE 106 Full Episode with Brandon Rickman: “Can You Really Grow Wealth Without Tying Up Your Capital?”

Leveraging Capital and Smart Investing in Multifamily Real Estate with Brandon Rickman

In this episode of the Multifamily Real Estate Experiment podcast, host Shalon Hutchinson (Hutch the Marine Investor) invites real estate investor and lending expert Brandon Rickman from Flip Genius to discuss strategies for turning capital into velocity and debt into leverage. Brandon shares his journey from single-family remodeling and flipping to establishing a private lending company and investing in self-storage facilities. The conversation covers investment strategies for accredited investors, the three major buckets of lending (institutional, hard money, and private loans), and the benefits of using tools like Solo 401(k) and self-directed IRAs. Brandon also highlights the importance of building trust with investors and flexibility in investment strategies, especially amid market uncertainties. The episode aims to provide listeners, especially veterans, with valuable insights into maximizing their capital's potential and building long-term wealth.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

01:34 Brandon Rickman's Real Estate Journey

04:00 Understanding Lending Options

06:30 Strategies for Accredited Investors

12:16 Leveraging Retirement Funds for Real Estate

21:37 Adapting to Market Changes

23:58 Focus Round: Personal Insights and Advice

29:13 Conclusion and Contact Information

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Email me at:
hutch@hsquaredcapital.com

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Transcript

Hutch: 0:00

Wah gwan all you multifamily enthusiast, welcome to another episode of the Multifamily Real Estate Experiment podcast. I'm your host, Shalon Hutchinson. if you're in real estate with me for a long time, you know me as Hutch the Marine Investor. And today, we are joined by a guest who knows how to turn capital into velocity and also debt into leverage. See. Brandon Rickman is a real estate investor, coach, and a lending expert of Flip Genius who helped investors scale, intelligently using private capital. But this isn't just a flipping conversation. This, is gonna be a session for accredited investors who want to stack their return, accelerate their syndication cash flow, and To protect their liquidity. So, Brandon, welcome to the lab, brother.

Brandon: 0:47

Thank you, Hutch. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.

Hutch: 0:50

Yes. Before we get to the meat potato podcast, brother, I like to ask my guests so our listeners can really tune into who they are. Do you have a favorite real estate quote or mantra that drives you?

Brandon: 1:03

Uh, don't fall in love with the property. Remove the emotions from the property. It's, uh. I tell people, you know, real estate is the our product, and so don't fall in love with any single product. I think when people get upside down in real estate, they get so focused on a single property or this is the only deal I'm ever gonna find, and they, they make bad decisions because of that. So I, I tell everybody, don't get emotional, it's just a property. If this one doesn't work out, there'll be another one soon. So that's my kind of real estate mantra.

Hutch: 1:32

Okay, that's a good one. Thank you so much, man. Now, now Brandon, um, can you tell us a little bit about a journey from operator to, lender, to educator, you know, what's your focus right now in this market?

Brandon: 1:43

Yeah, absolutely. So I started out in, uh, single family, um, remodeling actually. So had a remodeling company, eventually, um, started building new houses and then started flipping houses. Uh, to date, we've flipped now over 500 houses and during that period of time, I, um, learned that financing for all these properties. Certainly when you have 10, 15 houses going at a time, the financing forum was difficult. And so we actually over time established our own lending company. So we have a private lending business now where we loan money out to other investors, um, so that they can invest in real estate. And so. Um, after doing new construction and flipping for the last 20 plus years, I realized that that was a lot of transactional business. And what I mean is that you, whether it's new construction, you find a lot, you build a house, you sell the house, you make good money. Now you gotta gotta find another lot. Or with flipping houses, you, you find a house at a good price, you flip it, you sell it, you make good money. Now you gotta go find another house. So those businesses, even though they've generated, you know, a lot of cash flow over the years, they're very transactional. You gotta continue marketing, continue trying to find the next property. And so my focus became, uh, trying to find something that was more generating, um, long-term wealth, generational wealth. And so now we are focused on, uh, self storage facilities. So we are now building a, a large class, a 115,000 square foot self storage facility outside of Atlanta. We'll have 865 units in it, so we're going from a few rental properties to uh, to 865 doors pretty quick.

Hutch: 3:24

Man, that is awesome, man. And I like that journey. I would like to dissect that a little bit more. Right? Because look, um, kudos to you man, going from, you know, single family to lending to, the largest syndication. So in, in syndication, right? We, we often meet investors with, you know, a lot of time they have dry powder, but a lot of time they aren't ready. To, to go all in, in syndication, you know? Let me ask you this, man, what role, um, does hard money plays in like in between that stage when someone is waiting to place capital into a syndication But want to keep their money moving.

Brandon: 4:00

Yeah, that's a great question. So I kind of put, uh, lending into three major buckets, right? And so maybe a little different than what a lot of people think of it as. When I first started in real estate, um, I thought of there was only one bucket, and that was institutional lending, I call it, which is, uh, using a bank. And so that is one bucket. Um, but what I found, especially when I was doing new construction and building new houses, that. They require a lot of paperwork. Um, they want all your W2s. They wanna see what your income for the last couple of years has been, and then they'll only loan you a percentage of the money. So institutional bank or brokers is kind of the first bucket, usually a lower interest rate, um, but a, uh, much more difficult to get. The second bucket that you asked about, we call hard money lending. I call hard money lending, which is a pretty common term in the real estate space. But hard money lenders are larger companies that pool money from other investors, and then they loan it out to other flippers, other real estate investors. And so it's much easier to get, they don't require all the, tax records and documentation and all that much easier to get, but they interest rate is higher. And so we're seeing, you know, 10, 11, 12, 13%. On hard money loans, but I think that's as long as you put it in your budget and as long as you know what you're gonna pay out, you account for it. I think it's perfectly fine. We, we built our business off of hard money loans, and then the third bucket, which I'll cover quickly, we call private loans. And some people say, well, what's the difference in private loans and hard money loans for the way we break it down? Private lending is from people, uh, friends and family that know me, they know my business, they trust me. That's the easiest type of financing in my opinion, because. I can negotiate the rate, I can negotiate the terms, I can negotiate the payback. And a lot of times they'll, I'll say, you know, I have a, a property I wanna buy for this much, and they'll wire me the money, no questions asked. So private money is certainly the easiest. Um, but those lenders also have limited funds. Hard money is a little more difficult than private lending, but they have much bigger pools of money to loan out.

Hutch: 6:03

Yeah. That is awesome, man, because look. Especially when I talk to my veterans. one of the things that. That we talk about is their risk capacity and their risk tolerance. Right. And a lot of time when you, you meet, a guy or a gal who may have spent a lot of years to save a couple hundred thousand dollars, you know, say 150 to$200,000, and, you know, it's really challenging for them to, to really let that go in big bulks of money. Hmm. Right. Yeah. And with the syndication that we do, it's like a, it's not like, it is definitely a long-term relationship where the money's tied up for a little bit of while, right? No, entertain this conversation. Real quick man. How can accredit investors use, say their, their private capital to to lend like a person like yourself, you know, not just for flip, but with the biggest strategy to create a, a dual strategy that increased the velocity without, Stacking too much risk.

Brandon: 6:58

Yeah, I think it's whether if you're, if you're employed, if you have a, a normal nine to five job and you have some good income, yeah. You can obviously take that income and save, like you're talking about, to invest. And we do, in our particular syndication with our self storage facility right now, we have a minimum investment of$50,000. Right. So you can get involved even though it's a$14 million project. Um, part of that is a bank loan and part of it's syndication, but you can invest so. Uh, if you're an accredited investor and you have a a, a good paying job, you've saved up some money, you can use that money to invest in a larger syndication. And we're seeing, you know, 1.8 to 2.1. Um, ROI on that money over the course, like you said, it's usually a three to five year. Hold time, but you know, it's, it's people, you know, usually coming close to doubling that return. Um, obviously each deal is different. So I think that's one strategy for people who have a, a, a full-time job. And then obviously for other investors or people who are becoming full-time investors, I think you can utilize a couple of different strategies. One being hard money lending, um, to where you're borrowing 80 to 90. We have some hard, hard money lenders who loan up to 95%. Of the purchase and or rehab of a property. And so instead of me having to put a hundred percent of the money in, um, to do the work, let's say I've got a$100,000 on the side or a$200,000 on the side, um, I can get a, a hard money loan and only put 5% or 10% down and then take some of that cash that I've got sitting on the side and invested in another syndication or two syndications or three syndications. So now I've got money. Making money, am I active? Whe whether it's flipping a house or whether it's, uh, whatever I'm using a hard money loan for. And then I have my other capital out in syndications where I'm just a passive investor On those I.

Hutch: 8:49

Yeah. Yeah. So tell me about those passive investors who may want to increase the velocity of their capital, right? But not necessarily want to tie it up for five years. Right. What are the options available to them in, in real estate that, um, you might be able to help them to increase the velocity of their capital?

Brandon: 9:08

Yeah, I mean, I think, um, so our, our private lending company is structured similar to a hard, hard money lender. And so we, we basically, uh, bring in investors and they, um, invest money into our fund, and then we turn around and loan it out at a higher interest rate. So let's say we pay out 9% or 10%. To an investor and then we loan it out at 12% or 13%. So that's one way that, um, after the first six months of investment, you can pull your money out at any time. So you can reinvest it every month, or we pay out monthly. So if an investor were to put money into our particular fund, this is just an example that I'm connected to. Obviously I'm not trying to pitch it or any, anything else, but it's one option. Um, where someone can put money in a smaller amount, they can get a monthly return on that, so they can get that passive income. Um, and then they can choose to pull their money out, uh, with a 90 day notice. So we kind of structured that. Again, having real estate as a background, we wanted to structure something that we. Gave investors an option. Rather than holding their money for three to five years, let's structure something where they can get a monthly return. So it's passive. They're getting a monthly paycheck, um, from their investment, and if they want to reinvest that, they can. But if they wanna leave, if they want to pull it out, they can. And we made it easy for them to pull it out. So that's one option. Um, personally I think, you know, trying to have a longer term view is a, is a good option. I, you know, our, our self storage facility over time, same with multifamily over a couple year period, will pay much better than if you put your money into something for six months or eight months. But there are options out there, um, depending on what the strategy is for each investor.

Hutch: 10:46

Yeah, no, no doubt, man. Because when you think about it, so for example, um, some of our retired veterans, right? So they, if they have some capital sticking on, um, sitting on the sideline, that that is not overly tied up, right? to your point, one of the big option they have for themself is if they're projecting to use the capital within the next year and a half or so, right? They could potentially, um, use that money, um, to invest in a private fund that. Could gain them that, you know, 8% to 12% within that year. And it's almost guaranteed, almost guaranteed, um, for those interest rates if they lend it as a private capital. However, um, the interest rate will be taxed as earned, or the interest will be taxed as earned income, right? So you don't get to leverage a depreciation in most cases. You don't get to leverage a depreciation as you do in a longer term in investment, however. Um, to Brandon's point, your capital will only be we title for a very short time. There's a, a short lockup period, usually 90 days to six months where your money's locked up. And then after that you can get your money back within 90 days. And that's something that H Square Capital is working, um, into as well as far as a debt instrument fund. Um, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, great, great points. Um, so let's talk about this syndication man. Um, what principles, right? From, lending risk control, you know, equity buffer, deal structuring should, um, syndicated, be using more, um, more from when they raise capital or underwriting?

Brandon: 12:15

Yeah. Um, one thing too that I wanted to mention, um, on that last point is, um, we have a lot of our investors who, who invest in our, um, fund or in our business who are, are rolling over a 401k or an IRA, and I'm sure you covered that a lot with your listeners, but. Um, you know, there's a, a lot of people were not aware of this. We used to, uh, get a lot of investors who we would teach'em how to roll over their, sort, their, uh, 401k into a solo 401k or their IRA into a self-directed, and then they have the ability to invest that money into funds and syndications and stuff like that. So, won't go into detail on that. I'm sure you have, and you certainly have the knowledge of it. That is

Hutch: 12:54

a good topic. Let's, let's do that. Right. That's a good topic because, um, a lot of folks, you know, we think that to invest in real estate, we have to use our now money. And that's, this is the phrase or phrase that I use quite often on this podcast. Um, however we can use our later money, right? Um, to invest into income producing assets that. Would significantly create more predictability in, uh, the self-directed IRA let, let's touch on that for flip real quick. Go a little bit deeper.

Brandon: 13:22

Yeah, absolutely. I love it. I love the strategy and I was surprised when I learned about it and then started sharing it with other people. They had no idea. So basically, um, when, if you work for, let's say you work, you're in the military, you work for the government or you work for Home Depot or whatever company you're getting, uh, putting away money and the company is matching something, or the government's matching something into your 401k. You can move that into an IRA or different retirement programs. So in the 72, I believe it was 71 or 72, the government came up with, uh, a similar strategy for entrepreneurs, um, solopreneurs, people who are starting their own business because we need an opportunity to invest money as well. So if you, let's say you work for General Electric. Um, and they're, you're, you're putting money into a 401k, they're putting matching your 401k in some form or fashion. They have a custodian who is then investing that money usually in some type of mutual fund or stocks and bonds and hoping to get a return. Yeah. So what you can do that the federal government established back then is there's a thing called a SOLO 401k, and it's established for entrepreneurs, people who start their own business or have their own LLC. And you can transfer that money from your 401k into your solo 401k, and then you are the custodian of that money. And, and this is, applies with a self-directed IRA as well. Um, so when I transferred money from my 401k, uh, I've been working for corporate America investing into my 401k over time. Um, had some money in there. I was able to transfer it from that 401k. Into my solo 401k. It's a newly created, um, solo 401k, right? I opened the account at my local bank and it's a trust account. And so when you transfer that money from your 401k into your solo 401k, there's no taxes, no penalties, no fees, because it's the same as if you were transferring from Charles Schwab to Merrill Lynch. You're, you're transferring it from one 401k to another 401k, right? The difference is when you transfer it into your solo 401k. You have checkbook access. So you become the custodian. Now you have the right to invest that money into certain things. And there is a list of things that the federal government approves that you can invest in. Real estate is one of'em. Um, lots of different things you can invest in, even cryptocurrencies. But there are some things that they don't want you to invest in, and there's some regulations around how you do that. But the great thing is someone who is retired or someone who has a big 401k that they're sitting on and they're earning 2% or 3% interest through a mutual fund, they can now transfer that into a solo 401k or a self-directed IRA. And they can then decide, okay, I want to invest in H squared's, uh, syndication, or I wanna invest in this more passive thing. They write a check out of that solo 401k checkbook for 50,000, a 100,000, 200,000, whatever it is, and that they, they're the ones, they're the custodian who manages that fund so they can choose to invest it where they want. Get a return on it. That return as long as it goes back into the solo 401k. Correct. And you don't use it for, for to spend on whatever you want. It's not taxed. So you invest a hundred thousand dollars outta your, so solo 401k. I should say it's not taxed right now. Yeah, it's, yeah. So, um, whatever you take out, if you take a hundred thousand outta your solo, 401k, you invest it, it makes$50,000. If that whole 150,000 goes back into your solo 401k, you don't have to pay taxes on the income, the, the additional income that you received.

Hutch: 16:57

Yeah. Um, likewise the self-directed IRA as well, S-D-R-A. Um, there, there are some caveats, so please ensure you, you're speaking to your tax advisor, right? Because, um, I know for when you use a self-directed IRA, if there's a financial component to the property that you're purchasing, um, that could potentially trigger, a, unrelated business income tax. I thing it's called, UBIT tax. Right. That you might need to pay. But when you look at the, the benefits from investment syndication and, the velocity of which a capital is growing. Some, um, of that, um, taxes that are triggered, the UBIT tax that that is triggered is potentially negligible, right? Because when you compare what you would be making or the fluctuation in the difference of markets, um, that you don't have to deal with, um, you could, you, you're potentially making more money, um, even by, even with paying the UBIT tax. So ensure you speak to your financial advisor, um, or your tax strategist to ensure that you're using the right strategy. Also, I think would, would, um. Solo 401k. There's an employment, um, criteria, right, where if you have employees, there's some left and right lateral limits with that. so be mindful of, the solar 401k as well. But however, those are vehicles that you can use to create more predictability, um, to Increase your retirement plan or retirement funds, right, without dealing, dealing with a day-to-day fluctuation. And it's a little bit more secured, not guaranteed, but a little bit more, um, secured way of growing your capital as well. Yeah. Thank you Brandon for, for dissecting that. Sure.

Brandon: 18:23

Absolutely. I think it's important to, like you said, of course, check with your tax strategist or your accountant to make sure. Right. And, and there's different companies that can help you do the transfer. We did that as well. The other thing is that. If you're, and you mentioned this too. Um, so I believe the regulation is you have to be a solo, you have to be a one employee, which would be yourself. You can also include your spouse. Um, and then the other thing is you're allowed to do contributions, and I think it's up to$19,000 per year, maybe 19,500 now. Per person. So every year I can contribute$19,500 into my solo 401k, and my wife can as well. So you know, it's 40, roughly 40,000, a little less than$40,000 a year that I can contribute into my solo 401k. So there are some regulations. If I have five employees, it doesn't apply. Um, because it's, it's only for self-employed, correct? One to two employees, I believe. So you'll have to certainly check with your, uh, the regulations and your tax strategist, but some, some great benefits. And then again, I can turn that, uh, and loan that out at 8% or 10% or 12% or invest it into a syndication, you know, where I can double or triple my money over the, a longer period of time, you know, three years, five years. So some really good vehicles and options. But yeah, check with your. Your tax folks to make sure that you're, you're doing everything, uh, that you need to do.

Hutch: 19:41

Yeah. And for the military veterans or even if you are an active duty and listening to this podcast, um, keep in mind, right, if you have been contributing to the thrift savings plan, you can actually take a loan. And when you look at the interest rate for the loan, we're talking like about 3%, um, sometime less, sometime a little bit more. I've not seen more than 4%, um, for the, to take a loan out of your TSP. And when you look at. Pulling a loan out and increase and invest in it had, in an income producing asset that has a significant higher yield, whether it's through private lending, where you're gaining that, um, 8% to 12%. When you look at a delta, they were looking at what, um, you anywhere 4% to 6% or sometime even higher, you are using the money to work at a higher velocity. Right. Yeah. And at the same time, if you still got military service, you usually give about five years to pay the loan off. You're still contributing to the, to, to your thrift savings plan while you have your money working in two different places. Right? So something to look forward to if you want to, um, get into real estate and, and learn how syndication work, learn how the cash flow works, learn how to capital stack work. Um, so whenever you do retire, you have a better understanding of how to, um, different buckets that you can pull your capital into to grow it at a higher velocity, right? Yeah. So, yeah, if he, I, I've done that a couple times. If he, if you got it, if. If you listen to this podcast and you want to learn more about how to leverage your TSB into high yield property, um, um, lemme know and I can walk you through the process as well now. So, um, Brandon, um, one last question before we head into the focus round. I wanna be, I wanna be mindful of your time, you know, so, you know, post-election, right? Um, there's a lot of unknown ahead, you know, you know, rate changes, tax, code shift, and even probably may affect some banking policies, right? Mm-hmm. What is your team watching closely and uh, what are you adjusting now to, um, that most passive investor aren't thinking about? I.

Brandon: 21:38

I think one of the things that, as I look back over my 24 year, I guess, uh, real estate career is, um, being resilient and being flexible in your strategy. One thing that I've learned certainly over the last couple years is that, um, even though I've seen this multiple times, you know, I've, I've went through the uh, 08, 09 downturn and, um, you know, other others before that, and so I've seen it multiple times. One thing that I've. Learned is that we have no idea what's gonna happen to the market. The stuff that, you know, last year when the, change in our government, you know, people thought that was gonna help real estate, it was gonna improve things. Interest rates were gonna just drop suddenly, and that was just gonna open up. The real estate market has not been the case. In fact, I think our, the real estate market has slowed down a little bit this year. So, you know, people are hopeful. The next six months we'll turn a corner, but at the end of the day, like I said, we don't really know, um, decisions could be made that could change things. So I think, um, you just have to be flexible in your strategy. We've, uh, at, at one time when the market allowed for it, we were buying rental properties and stacking up rental properties. The market changed. It became a seller's market. We were able to sell those at a higher, much higher, uh, amount than we bought'em for. So then we had cash. Right now, uh, based on where we are, I'm trying to stock stockpile cash, uh, get as much cash and hold onto it. So we've, over the last couple years we've sold not all of our rental properties, but most of our rental properties, our single family properties, um, using some of that cash, obviously to invest in a self storage facility, but then also wait for opportunities as they come up because if the market continues to slow down, I think there's gonna be opportunities. So I think. Kind of the focus going forward is we're still still doing our normal day-to-day business in real estate. Not at the scale. We did back in 2021, 2022. Um, so a, a smaller version of that. But then we are also looking at where can I invest my money in a, a syndication or in a longer term deal that has. Good upside, even though it may be parked for a little bit longer. And then also holding some cash for opportunities that may pop up if the market continues to slide.

Hutch: 23:47

Yeah, that is awesome, man. Thank you so much for that. Um, we're gonna head into the focus round Brandon, which is, um, five question. Uh, we can go as fast and as slow as you want to. Depends on how much time you have on this back backend. Right? Okay. So what do you do for fun?

Brandon: 24:00

Well, I'm a coach, I'm a basketball coach, coach JV basketball at local high school here. Um, and I love to fish. Uh, so have a, a bass boat. My 15-year-old son loves to fish and so we go in shore fishing down at the beach and they'd love to bass fish as well.

Hutch: 24:17

That's awesome, man. What is one opportunity that looked very small, um, but turned out to be a big game changer for you?

Brandon: 24:26

Oh, um, I would have to say the, the self storage, um, project, it was a, without going into too much detail, it was two single family homes beside each other that I bought from another wholesaler. Right. And that wholesaler sold it to me, thinking it was a two flips, two side by side flips. And during my due diligence, I found out that the future land use map showed it as commercial. Oh, nice. I was able to take it through, get it approved for self storage, so it went from. Two single family homes that I was gonna flip and make, you know, 60, 70, 80,000 on each one. To a, uh, 865 unit self storage facility that's gonna, you know, be worth far, far more than that.

Hutch: 25:04

Yeah. That is awesome. And even just the zoning change in that property increased the land drastically. Right, right. Yeah. So going through and doing the rezoning, um, if you had to because of the, the, the feature height and best use of the property. Um, yeah. Zoning in doing all the, the horizontal work, road work and all of good stuff drastically increase the land. Right. Yes, absolutely. Um, so like, look, if you listen to this and a, a lot of folks don't know how we can increase the value of land, but it's all about identifying the highest and best use, right? And there's several different stage. And if you are a passive investor and you are looking at ground up development, it's really important you get in there at. Early as possible so you can ride the wave of the growth within that property. So you start with all the horizontal, one rezoning, two horizontal work, and then when you start doing vertical development, then uh, you just stacking the growth in the value of that property, right? Brandon, what's your best piece of advice for communicating value to nervous investors?

Brandon: 26:07

I think trust, um, you know, we've, we've always focused on long-term relationships. Um, we have, uh, not personally, um, never not paid an investor back his return, his or her return. And so in the 20, 24 years plus that we've been doing this, so, um, we build relations. That doesn't mean that I've never lost money on a flip, I have. Um, you know, it's not always, you don't always make money on every deal you do, but, so I've personally lost money on a flip. But I made sure that the investors got paid back because we wanted to build a long-term relationship. I wanted to work with them on another property, another project, you know, another syndication. And so it's not about that particular deal, it's about the relationship that you're building and building trust. And at the end of the day, you know, people have to trust me. They have to trust you if they're gonna invest their money with you and expect a return. They've gotta believe that what you're telling'em is true. They gotta trust that you can do what you say you can do, and that you're gonna pay'em back what you say, you can pay'em back. So. I think building relationships and having trust in your, in your business partners is key.

Hutch: 27:09

That's awesome, man. Um, what do you wish more investors understood about using leverage responsibly?

Brandon: 27:15

I would say the, the biggest questions that I've always had around it is the funding piece, um, around real estate in general. And I, I, I wish that, you know, I think our, our, um, educational system does not teach entrepreneurialism. It teaches. You know, status quo, um, go get a job, make your hourly income invested in your 401k, retire when you're 62 or 72, and have this much money. And, you know, there's, there's just so many different opportunities as an entrepreneur, but even in within real estate and investing, there's a lot of different ways to do what we do to be a full-time real estate investor. Like we talked about with the financing, there's not just. Going to get money from a bank. There's not just using, you know, having to save for 20 years and then using all of that money to invest in something and hope that one investment goes well. There's lots of other opportunities, right, that are out there. So educating yourself around the different opportunities and how to raise capital and how to invest wisely, you know, how to, how to create velocity in your, in your investments. There's, there's just a lot of things out there and I wish our educational system did a better job of, of teaching people that.

Hutch: 28:21

Yeah, I know, mate. Um, last question, man. Um, to what do you attribute your success, for consistent growth in this space, brother?

Brandon: 28:29

Oh, I'm a man of faith, my, relationship with Jesus obviously is key number one. I would say my, my wife is a, a huge part of that success. Awesome. Um, we've been married, uh, almost 25 years now, and she's very supportive of me and all my crazy entrepreneurial ideas. Um, so having a supportive wife has been great. So yeah, I think those two things. We talked a little bit about resiliency and, and changing your, um, focus. You know, don't get solely focused on one aspect of real estate. There's a lot of different avenues where you can generate money, and as the market changes, you need to be willing to change with it, but. So resiliency is definitely part of it, but I think, you know, certainly my faith and then, the support of my wife are probably the two biggest things that have helped our success over the years.

Hutch: 29:13

Okay. Thank you so much, man, Brandon, for the information you passed with us today. It's definitely a huge strategy session for any listener listening all the way to the end. If a listeners wanna get in touch with you, what is the best way for them to do that?

Brandon: 29:25

So our website is the Flip Genius. You can see on the sign here behind me, flipgenius.com. Um, they can email me. It's brandon@theflipgenius.com, so B-R-A-N-D-O-N@theflipgenius.com. Um, we, we talk about a lot of our single family stuff there, and then, uh, our syndication as well. And then there's a, a link there. They can schedule a call with me too if they have any questions. I'm happy to help share, share any knowledge that I have to help people take that next step.

Hutch: 29:53

Awesome man. Brandon, thank you so much for showing us how money is a tool, right? Isn't just a tool for flippers, right? It's also wealth of lever for syndicators, accredit investors, and anyone who wants to, anyone who wants to build liquidity, um, and also build a momentum of their capital as well. And listeners, if you listen to this, um. I hope this is a mind shift for you of the different ways that you can leverage your capital to ensure that it grows the way you want it to grow, right? So you're not controlled by uncontrollable forces, and all this stuff that we pass into you is to help you, your family, and future generation own more of America. So, until next time, I'm Hutch Marine investor out. Thanks, Hutch.